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View Full Version : What do Indiana Fans Actually Want?



granger33
06-29-2010, 07:30 AM
Hey guys, I've been a long time roamer of this forum, actually the first thing I do when i wake up is check the forum to see if there have been any Trades or new rumours. I really enjoy people's opinons on this forum and everything. But reading the board lately some people are bashing the moves Indiana made in the draft, the moves Pacers apparently should/shouldn't make.

What I want to know is, What do you guys actually want? If you didn't want Paul George, who did you want? What player do you actually want us to go out and get?

From what I have gathered from this forum lately is:

George Hill wont be a good fit at PG
Collison would be great but Okafor is to expensive
We should trade Brandon Rush
Not wait until '11 Free Agency

Just want this thread to be about what fans actually WANT. Instead of saying what they dont want and what the Pacers shouldn't do. So maybe we can look back on this and say " Yeh This guy was right"

I do think bringing in Collison would be a teriffic move, and I am hoping we can nab him in a Trade. Also Brandon Rush...lets just say wouldnt be dissapointed if he was involved in a trade.

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 08:24 AM
Indy fans want wins with likable players who don't get caught with guns at strip clubs on a regular basis.

granger33
06-29-2010, 08:26 AM
Indy fans want wins with likable players who don't get caught with guns at strip clubs on a regular basis.

I agree. Just don't know why then people are suggesting we get Agent Zero.

Kegboy
06-29-2010, 08:57 AM
After Rick and Jimmy, all I want is a coach who values competing on both ends of the floor.

Jose Slaughter
06-29-2010, 09:08 AM
Speaking just for me.

1. An NBA Championship

2. A team I enjoy watching

3. Ricky Rubio

4. Sandra Bullock

Brad8888
06-29-2010, 09:10 AM
Speaking just for me.

1. An NBA Championship

2. A team I enjoy watching

3. Ricky Rubio

4. Sandra Bullock

Are you sure you don't have those reversed? :D

NappyRootz
06-29-2010, 09:42 AM
Hey guys, I've been a long time roamer of this forum, actually the first thing I do when i wake up is check the forum to see if there have been any Trades or new rumours. I really enjoy people's opinons on this forum and everything. But reading the board lately some people are bashing the moves Indiana made in the draft, the moves Pacers apparently should/shouldn't make.

What I want to know is, What do you guys actually want? If you didn't want Paul George, who did you want? What player do you actually want us to go out and get?

From what I have gathered from this forum lately is:

George Hill wont be a good fit at PG
Collison would be great but Okafor is to expensive
We should trade Brandon Rush
Not wait until '11 Free Agency

Just want this thread to be about what fans actually WANT. Instead of saying what they dont want and what the Pacers shouldn't do. So maybe we can look back on this and say " Yeh This guy was right"

I do think bringing in Collison would be a teriffic move, and I am hoping we can nab him in a Trade. Also Brandon Rush...lets just say wouldnt be dissapointed if he was involved in a trade.

I want to build achampionship contender and not just a first round playoff team.

So with that in mind, I'm keeping Hansbrough, George, Hibbert and Granger. I might let Rush go but the problem is his value is so low that you wont get anything back that makes moving him worthwhile.

So I'm not selling low on him either.

If that means one more year of TJ or Steve Blake or whomever at the point than so be it.

I would also STRONGLY suggest to JOB that if we are eliminated from playoff contention by the All Star break again than I would prefer to see more of the young guys and less of Granger, Murphy and Dunleavy. NO meaningless late season surges that cost us a chance at Evan Turner and John Wall.

So add in another top 6 pick next year to this core group and then factor in that we will have close to $40mm available in cap space than I think we can make a huge leap beginning with the 11-12 season.

Do not sacrifice any of that for an extra 6-7 wins next year.

Day-V
06-29-2010, 10:04 AM
A sandwich and something to b*tch about.

SMosley21
06-29-2010, 10:07 AM
A sandwich and something to b*tch about.

and beer

Trader Joe
06-29-2010, 10:09 AM
Just. Win. Baby.

btowncolt
06-29-2010, 10:17 AM
Personally, I'd be fine with everything on Jose Slaugther's list without the first, second and third things.

dohman
06-29-2010, 10:39 AM
I do not care what the players do off the court. If they come into the fieldhouse and play basketball the right way and get us to the playoffs again that is all I ask.

Mr_Smith
06-29-2010, 11:30 AM
I want to win the lottery so I can pay my off my student loans and other debts.

judicata
06-29-2010, 11:35 AM
Execute, play defense, get after the ball, stop shooting so many 3s, get rid of Murphy, find a PG, get a new coach, win games, make the playoffs, win some hardware.

grace
06-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Scott Skiles.

Tom White
06-29-2010, 12:02 PM
Execute, play defense, get after the ball, stop shooting so many 3s, get rid of Murphy, find a PG, get a new coach, win games, make the playoffs, win some hardware.

You need to be more specific. Whom do you want to execute?

PacersPride
06-29-2010, 12:22 PM
i want a young pg we can build around w/o giving up draft picks or rush. giving up draft picks and young players is not a wise move for a small market team.

trading expirings is the best route to take and yet keeping one or two to stay under the salary cap by about 8 million if at all possible.




Hey guys, I've been a long time roamer of this forum, actually the first thing I do when i wake up is check the forum to see if there have been any Trades or new rumours. I really enjoy people's opinons on this forum and everything. But reading the board lately some people are bashing the moves Indiana made in the draft, the moves Pacers apparently should/shouldn't make.

What I want to know is, What do you guys actually want? If you didn't want Paul George, who did you want? What player do you actually want us to go out and get?

From what I have gathered from this forum lately is:

George Hill wont be a good fit at PG
Collison would be great but Okafor is to expensive
We should trade Brandon Rush
Not wait until '11 Free Agency

Just want this thread to be about what fans actually WANT. Instead of saying what they dont want and what the Pacers shouldn't do. So maybe we can look back on this and say " Yeh This guy was right"

I do think bringing in Collison would be a teriffic move, and I am hoping we can nab him in a Trade. Also Brandon Rush...lets just say wouldnt be dissapointed if he was involved in a trade.

duke dynamite
06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
Indiana Fans want crack rock and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

duke dynamite
06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
You need to be more specific. Whom do you want to execute?
The infidels.

Pacersalltheway10
06-29-2010, 12:41 PM
an NBA Championship and for the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, and Cavs to suck.

Peck
06-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Indiana Fans want crack rock and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

You know the irony of this is that Sunday night I was on Interstate 65 northbound around Lebanon and was driving in a convoy of 3 Lynard Skynard semi's and was behind what I assume was the tour bus.

Sparhawk
06-29-2010, 12:54 PM
Have you ever seen Hoosiers. It's pretty close to what Indiana fans want.

Players that work their *** off to get better, that really complement each other in how they play. Players that play good defense, run well executed plays, & plenty of ball movement. They like the typical, pass first PG, a SG that can actually shoot and is willing to shoot, an bruising PF that grabs rebounds and will knock you down if he doesn't like you.

That's about all I got.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2010, 01:02 PM
I want a quality starting point guard and I don't want to sacrifice Granger or Hibbert to get him. The quality PG I am thinking would be Collison, Tony Parker, Ricky Rubio a year from now, maybe someone else.

Barring that, I at least want some PG to make the season a little more bearable, even if it isn't a long-term solution. This would be guys like Ramon Sessions or Steve Blake. Guys who are not the answer, but who are an upgrade for sure, until the answer comes along in a lottery pick next year or the year after.

Pacemaker
06-29-2010, 01:10 PM
A new coach.

Sparhawk
06-29-2010, 01:20 PM
A new coach.

We should make our Pacer's Christmas list now to send to Santa. :happydanc

Pacersalltheway10
06-29-2010, 01:22 PM
We should make our Pacer's Christmas list now to send to Santa. :happydanc

I already wrote one last year..... David Stern must be santa.

maragin
06-29-2010, 01:22 PM
This board has 1465 members at the time of this posting. Let's assume for a moment that 1000 of them are Pacers fans*, with the others here for their respective teams (or Colts, Counting, etc...).

That remaining Pacers "village" will be comprised of members young and old, from many different walks of life. They all have different opinions about how the Pacers should conduct their business. This is a very good thing, because if we all agreed on everything... there would be no reason to have this messageboard. Someone would start a thread and there would be 999 "Thanks" under the original post.

There are, by my estimation, some very good basketball minds on this board. I'm not one of them. Their disagreements make for some of the best banter on the board. Fans of any level can chime in, and no real issue brought to this board has had unanimous consent.

If you were to poll the fan base, there are definitely issues that there would be a higher level of agreement on (Should the Pacers stay in Indy?). Other issues are much more contentious (Who should be our coach in 2011?). The freedom to have differing opinions is heavily exercised here.

The only thing that Pacers fans truly have in common is that we are Pacers fans.





*Leaving 465 to circle Indy

Magic P
06-29-2010, 01:29 PM
I know what Indiana fans want but what i don't get is why they won't support the team that they wanted. The fans cried for the "thugs" to leave (which happened to be our best players) and when we sucked like a team should once they traded their best players away they stop coming to the games like a bunch of babies and now the team could be leaving the city. I think we were spoiled by making the playoffs 16 out of 17 seasons.

I don't know how much Peja wanted to be paid, his agent said we gave a BS deal but once he left it was like we traded Artest a legitimate top 5 to 10 player in the NBA at the time for basically nothing. We traded JO for a guy who doesn't fit our system, but the Jax trade is what sent this team to the bottom of the league what a horrible trade in hind sight.

Trophy
06-29-2010, 01:33 PM
Wins and playoffs!

Hoosiers like to watch good basketball.

BigRik
06-29-2010, 01:48 PM
Indy fans want wins with likable players who don't get caught with guns at strip clubs on a regular basis.

I think this is what the majority of Pacer fans want, especially the "casuals". The difference of opinion is how we go about doing this. By no means am I an expert, but I see our most glaring needs as a pass first point guard who can pressure the ball on defense, and :deadhorse

pacers74
06-29-2010, 01:50 PM
A competitive team with a winning record and competes well in the playoffs.
To do this we need a quality starter at PG and a new coach.

duke dynamite
06-29-2010, 02:19 PM
You know the irony of this is that Sunday night I was on Interstate 65 northbound around Lebanon and was driving in a convoy of 3 Lynard Skynard semi's and was behind what I assume was the tour bus.
Yup! Did you smell that smell?

BringJackBack
06-29-2010, 02:37 PM
First and foremost I just want a championship team and build a tradition for Indiana much like Bostons or LA's where former players and coaches get other jobs and stick around Indy once they retire such as Rik Smits, Jeff Foster, and hopefully if Byron Scott or Mark Jackson get a coaching job here. I love seeing Pacers players at the mall, or working out like Roy was in the Paul George video. It would be great if one day we saw Brad Miller or Rik Smits working on Roy's moves or something just really awesome to see like that on a regular basis. I love how Slick works with us and someone like Reb Porter has been with the team through so many years.

First we need to build a championship team. So,

1. We need to turn this 45+ million cap space into a couple of good players and potential stars.

2. It would be great to add an extended Tony Parker and Al Jefferson to this team as well as a great leader and sixth or seventh man such as the beloved Jarrett Jack.

3. We need another 6th man player to take care of our lack of defense in the backcourt. He ought to be able to get us some easy baskets and be and energizer bunny on defense. Possibly Oden or Thabeet since their fans may be getting anxious for results from them?

4. I want to keep Brandon, but if you can get a Tony Parker or Big Al back, I guess you can't turn it down even though I may feel sick for a couple of days.

5. I want a former player to be our next Head Coach or Assistant. Byron, Mark, whomever. I also want to see a video of Larry Bird working with Paul George. (By the way I love the pick.)

6. Fans, everywhere around here.

Right now this doesn't look very likely, but with a few quick additions of good players and the development of Roy and George (maybe even Lance), things can turn around quicker than expected perhaps. I also understand it is probably impossible to turn our pieces into Al, Tony, and Jarrett.

BringJackBack
06-29-2010, 02:42 PM
Have you ever seen Hoosiers. It's pretty close to what Indiana fans want.

Players that work their *** off to get better, that really complement each other in how they play. Players that play good defense, run well executed plays, & plenty of ball movement. They like the typical, pass first PG, a SG that can actually shoot and is willing to shoot, an bruising PF that grabs rebounds and will knock you down if he doesn't like you.

That's about all I got.

Kind of like Boston. Not nice, aggressive, mean, and almost scary. I like it.

Who do you think this pass first PG, SG, and tough PF are in this league that fit this bill that may be able to acquire?

For PG i'm not really looking for a pass first point guard, but a good balance of scoring and passing. Such as Baron Davis in his heyday or Manu.

Hicks
06-29-2010, 03:18 PM
Indiana fans want likable winners.

odeez
06-29-2010, 03:20 PM
A team that wins with character, gets to the playoffs, and that can compete for a title.

Day-V
06-29-2010, 03:43 PM
We want the following:

Reggie Miller
Dale Davis
Antonio Davis
Rik Smits
Mark Jackson
Derek McKey
Detlef Schrempf
Chuck Person
Jalen Rose
Sam Perkins
LaSalle Thompson
Pre-Brawl J.O.
2003-2004 Jeff Foster
Once again, a sandwich.

graphic-er
06-29-2010, 04:18 PM
Quit living int he past.

Since86
06-29-2010, 04:29 PM
We traded JO for a guy who doesn't fit our system, but the Jax trade is what sent this team to the bottom of the league what a horrible trade in hind sight.

If you think JO was traded FOR Ford, then you've obviously missed a lot. TJ was the filler, the draft picks that turned out to be Hibby and Rush was the meat of the deal. Sure, they thought TJ was going to be a nice addition, but he wasn't the center piece Indy was looking for.

As far as what sent this team to the bottom of the league, it wasn't the trade for Jax. The move towards the bottom of the league was set in motion years prior. Acquiring talent with zero regard for the brains "leading" the talent is what sent the team to the bottom of the league.

Indy was never going to get fair market value for any of them. (Jax, JO, Ron, Tinsley) The team was going down to the bottom, with or without that trade.

spazzxb
06-29-2010, 04:42 PM
I know what Indiana fans want but what i don't get is why they won't support the team that they wanted. The fans cried for the "thugs" to leave (which happened to be our best players) and when we sucked like a team should once they traded their best players away they stop coming to the games like a bunch of babies and now the team could be leaving the city. I think we were spoiled by making the playoffs 16 out of 17 seasons.

I don't know how much Peja wanted to be paid, his agent said we gave a BS deal but once he left it was like we traded Artest a legitimate top 5 to 10 player in the NBA at the time for basically nothing. We traded JO for a guy who doesn't fit our system, but the Jax trade is what sent this team to the bottom of the league what a horrible trade in hind sight.

Peja got way more than he is worth from the Hornets, but i agree with the point your making.

spazzxb
06-29-2010, 04:46 PM
If you think JO was traded FOR Ford, then you've obviously missed a lot. TJ was the filler, the draft picks that turned out to be Hibby and Rush was the meat of the deal. Sure, they thought TJ was going to be a nice addition, but he wasn't the center piece Indy was looking for.

As far as what sent this team to the bottom of the league, it wasn't the trade for Jax. The move towards the bottom of the league was set in motion years prior. Acquiring talent with zero regard for the brains "leading" the talent is what sent the team to the bottom of the league.

Indy was never going to get fair market value for any of them. (Jax, JO, Ron, Tinsley) The team was going down to the bottom, with or without that trade.

Getting rid of JO was the meat the 17th and Rasho's expiring contract were the potatoes, TJ was some store-bought gravy. We traded (pretty sure this is accurate) bayless and diago to Portland for Rush, Jack, and Mcbob which was completely unrelated other than by Chronology.

flox
06-29-2010, 04:56 PM
Smart, savvy moves that help us win.

Drafting George and then Stephenson was a start.

timid
06-29-2010, 05:00 PM
I could care less about likeable....about this point in my Pacers watching career....I just want wins.......

Magic P
06-29-2010, 05:23 PM
If you think JO was traded FOR Ford, then you've obviously missed a lot. TJ was the filler, the draft picks that turned out to be Hibby and Rush was the meat of the deal. Sure, they thought TJ was going to be a nice addition, but he wasn't the center piece Indy was looking for.

As far as what sent this team to the bottom of the league, it wasn't the trade for Jax. The move towards the bottom of the league was set in motion years prior. Acquiring talent with zero regard for the brains "leading" the talent is what sent the team to the bottom of the league.

Indy was never going to get fair market value for any of them. (Jax, JO, Ron, Tinsley) The team was going down to the bottom, with or without that trade.

I forgot about the draft picks and I agree with you on us never getting market value for any of those guys. I wasn't clear but i was trying to say the trade that sent Jax to GS for Dun and Murphy was a horrible in hindsight.

As far as the brain leading the talent i think the best thing Artest was known for at the time was playing physical and breaking MJ's nose when he was traded to Indiana, i think most pacers fans loved the trade at the time even though we gave up fan favorites Best and Rose. This may be a little off topic but if the P's didn't trade Brad Miller we would have went to the finals in 2004 i am sure of it. Ben and Rasheed was too much for JO to handle.

The guy who never gets any blame is Rick Carlisle, who was/is soft like doctors cotton. The fact that your two best players are arguing over who's team it is during the ECF's shows he had no control over his own squad. He's no Phil Jackson when it comes to handling personalities.

IAmHoosier
06-29-2010, 05:32 PM
He's no Phil Jackson when it comes to handling personalities.

Do you think Phil could have prevented Artest from going into the stands if he had been the Pacers head coach?

pizza guy
06-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Indiana fans want the Pistons from '03. A team that plays good team basketball, no frills, no pansies (milk-drinkers), no insane 3-pt crazy "system." A solid PG that comes up big. A solid SG that can actually get a shot and make it. Toughness down low. Even a likeable looney guy like 'Sheed. Even while hating them, I still liked the way they played. The Pistons and the Spurs. Not identical, but good ol' basketball teams, coaches, players, and systems. That's what I want anyways.

Sandwiches would be good, too. I would enjoy that.

But honestly, Indiana fans want a true, traditional basketball team. We know that winning comes from doing the little things better than the other guys, and from working together. That's what we want.

--pizza

Magic P
06-29-2010, 06:09 PM
Do you think Phil could have prevented Artest from going into the stands if he had been the Pacers head coach?

No, but i think he would be smart enough to tell one of the big boys to grab Artest and don't let him out your sights until everything cools down.

Swish
06-29-2010, 11:06 PM
I want Mark, Reggie, Derrick, Dale, and Rik back. :(

jeffg-body
06-29-2010, 11:49 PM
IMHO I am looking for a team who wins with grace and dignity. I want to see good fundamental basketball where we are a good team and not just a few people that are great and have to run iso's all night for them hoping they stay/get hot. I also want to see some good lock down defense. I want to see a team and not just a few flashy star players.

IU_sears
06-30-2010, 12:23 AM
We want a Soprano's reunion show with Obie playing Paulie Walnuts.

http://guerreroerrante.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/paulie_walnuts.jpg

http://taylormadetirade.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/default.jpg

This is O'brien's, "I told Larry all I need to win is a 7'4" Center that can shoot the three and really stretch the floor" face. :dance:

cdash
06-30-2010, 12:53 AM
I just want to win. I don't really give a crap if the guys are a bunch of choir boys or thugs, if they win, I don't care.

IAmHoosier
06-30-2010, 01:01 AM
I want to be a NBA fan and not just a Pacers fan, which means that David Stern has to go, along with star/big market city treatment and fishy refs.

Oh, and I want the Pacers to be successful again!

Mourning
06-30-2010, 01:34 AM
You need to be more specific. Whom do you want to execute?


The infidels.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Bball
06-30-2010, 03:53 AM
Indiana fans want a team that plays the right way...

And for anyone who'd ask "What is the right way"- You'll know it when you see it. And you haven't seen it for a while.

BornReady
06-30-2010, 04:29 AM
every Indiana fan wants something different
some did not like the Paul George pick and instead wanted a trade down
others were really happy with it
some did not like the Lance Stephenson trade citing that we do not need another wing
others were ecstatic about it (me, i was hooting like an owl cracked up on coke)
some value mcroberts over others
some like rush more than others
some think danny should be traded
blahblahblah you get my drift

but i think its unanimous that if we got a legit starting pg, indy fans would be happy

Asteezy
06-30-2010, 07:27 AM
Hello All,
Long time lurker here thats finally taken the time to create an account, so hopefully i will be able to contribute something positive to the board!

So what do Indiana Pacer fans want from the team? Obviously i can't speak for the entire fanbase but my wishlist for this upcoming season is actually rather short (strange considering we only won 30 or so games last year).

Firstly a new coach, I know this is a tiresome subject on the board so i wont go into it as i dont want to bore you guys.

And to nobodys suprise im sure my second 'wish' is a starting point guard. having watched multiple stop gaps at the position over the past few years I have gotten to the point that I dont need a world beater, I just want a solid pg that can come in and run the offence efficiently whilst defending the position to an above average level. Think Jarrett Jack with a little more savvy.

So who is their any PG's out there and available for the right price that would be able to fill the role I just desribed? Collison, Flynn, Sessions, Blake, Livingston........? im not sure, fortunately for me i'm not in charge and thats a job for Larry.

duke dynamite
06-30-2010, 09:17 AM
We want a Soprano's reunion show with Obie playing Paulie Walnuts.

http://guerreroerrante.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/paulie_walnuts.jpg

http://taylormadetirade.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/default.jpg


It makes me really wonder if that is the look he is going for. I think Mike Wells should ask him if he is a fan of the Sopranos during the next press conference.

Trader Joe
06-30-2010, 09:18 AM
Have you ever seen Hoosiers. It's pretty close to what Indiana fans want.

Players that work their *** off to get better, that really complement each other in how they play. Players that play good defense, run well executed plays, & plenty of ball movement. They like the typical, pass first PG, a SG that can actually shoot and is willing to shoot, an bruising PF that grabs rebounds and will knock you down if he doesn't like you.

That's about all I got.

You know what else they do in Hoosiers? Win. A lot, and before that when they sucked, no one cared.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 09:36 AM
I just want to win.

Do I care about much else? To some degree, but it is all dependent upon winning. When off court problems impact winning that is a problem, when locker room problems impact winning then it is a problem, when on the court issues impacts winning, then it is a problem.

Do I care if the players are nice guys? Sure I like to see them be able to be interviewed, but I don't believe for one second that we really know the players. I mean was Dale Davis a nice guy was he a good guy? I don't know, I've heard some off the record stuff, some good and some bad - don't know what is true - don't really care. Nothing he did off the court negatively impacted his on-the-court play, at least that I know of.

I don't care if the players give autographs, I don't care if they are good in the community - I really could not care less. They are paid to play basketball and to win and that is what I care about.

I have never had any real interest in meeting any of the players - had some opportunities - but don't care too. Sure if I could become very good friends with some of the players, that would be fun to be on the inside, but meeting a player in some awkward setting means nothing to me.

Style of play: do I really care as long as they win. I suppose not, although I think certain styles are more condusive to winning. Do I care if they play the right way? Only in so far as it impacts winning.

thewholefnshow31
06-30-2010, 10:16 AM
I am like UB and I best most fans are like that. I just want to see the Pacers win. I do not care if we have a bunch of nice guys who give back to the community. As long as they stay out of trouble with the law so they can continue to play I am happy.

Ultimately we do not know who these guys. So many people thought Marvin was this great and wholesome guys, but there are stories of him being a douchebag to fans on the field and now is around multiple shooting incidents. There are stories of Peyton being a womanizer as well.

As long as they stay out of trouble with the law and we win I am a happy fan. I watch to be entertained by my team.

BillS
06-30-2010, 12:42 PM
I think it is clear that a winning team that no one connects with long-term isn't enough to sustain a franchise.

Very few cities are lucky enough to have a franchise that wins all the time. When you cycle toward losing, as is inevitable for most teams, you need to have fans with a connection to the team, not just to the W-L record.

I think ALL fans want a winning team, so that really should go without saying.I think what Indiana fans want is a winning team that they can connect to and like. That can mean playing hard and as a team, it can mean being personable and a fan favorite despite talent level, it can mean a lot of things that must be present over and above a winning record.

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
Playoffs, New Coach, a PG, and that NBA 2K11 will be the best basketball videogame this year.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 12:58 PM
One thing I should add to my post though. I also really enjoy the process. The process of seeing a team grow, seeing a young player get better and better. I enjoy seeing a team being put together, going through some struggles. I also don't expect the Pacers to win every year. I loved 1994-2000 even though they didn't win a championship. I'll be thrilled when we get back to that level.

My point is just because the Pacers will not win a championship next season and likely will win 35 games or so, that doesn't mean i am any less a fan.

Naptown_Seth
06-30-2010, 01:03 PM
I want a coach and mgmt that acknowledge the realities on the court rather than BSing us and coming up with excuses. I want much smarter drafting, though I can't be proven right or wrong on that for 2-3 more years.

Over the last 2 years I've been most upset by the poor investment of minutes into the core players expected to still be with the Pacers 2-3 years from now. There's never been a good reason for Roy to play less than Rasho (or Rasho not to have been bought out in fact), or Rush to sit for the entire month of Dun's return, or AJ to be benched after they checked him out and liked what they saw, and so on.

I want AJ, Roy, Rush, and Josh all playing 2500 minutes (I'll take Josh at 1700, far better than 300-400). I want to see Troy play no more than 20-25 per game, Dun to play no more than 15 per game. I want to see the starting PGs only play 48-55 minutes total per game, not the 75 or so of the Jack/Ford and Watson/Ford/Head/Price years. I want to see Josh as the rebounding, physical inside PF, not Troy as the "spread" PF (as in spreads the Pacers defense so opponents can walk to the rim).

I'd like to see a coach that could make all that happen, but if JOB would do it then I could live with him. However I'd also like to see an offensive scheme that was just a bit more complex and challenging for defenses to oppose.

In short I wanted to see a REBUILDING PROCESS, but that has yet to begin. The JO trade was the first and final step taken. Tinsley wouldn't have gone were it not for behavior issues that finally forced it (btw, I like how Rick was thrown under the bus for Tins but then Bird stood up for JOB and sat Tins out for good).


Also I don't care for the FA market because of bad prices and lack of certainty. The Pacers need to trade the expiring deals for known players and/or picks by the trade deadline. That's the high point of their value. They have zero value once they expire and don't assure you of any returning player, period.

Bball
06-30-2010, 01:19 PM
We want a Soprano's reunion show with Obie playing Paulie Walnuts.



How 'bout we go the other direction and get Paulie Walnuts to coach the team?

Naptown_Seth
06-30-2010, 01:23 PM
The guy who never gets any blame is Rick Carlisle, who was/is soft like doctors cotton. The fact that your two best players are arguing over who's team it is during the ECF's shows he had no control over his own squad. He's no Phil Jackson when it comes to handling personalities.
Really? Let's just stamp that in cement and make it permanent first.

Good, now then, how many AS seasons has Ron had? How many DPOY wins does Ron have? And what was his flagrant foul/behavior record like the year prior to that AS and DPOY season?

Yes, if only Rick could manage his personality as well as Phil did all season as Ron took horrible shot after horrible shot and continued to behave in his weird-a** ways. Ron got late playoff redemption, a couple of moments and games to make the rest be forgotten, but it wasn't a shining season for him. Neither was his time in Houston, neither was his time in Sacto.

His best, most controlled season came under Carlisle.

And Jack loved playing for Rick and apparently remains pretty close to him.


Calm <> soft, this is what Bird and Indy fans failed to realize. How many quality games did JOB get from Tinsley? How many quality games did Memphis get from Tinsley? And yet the coach Tins' hated somehow got a few good seasons from him. Tins just didn't like paying the cost of a lower APG value, but I'd say 1-2 months of doghouse bench when Rick first got here wasn't exactly soft. He sent a message that seemed to take, at least that year. And he did it without openly throwing Tins under the bus in the press.


Rick is non-emotional. When Reggie hit the shot vs Chicago they showed Bird and his non-emotional, this-was-expected attitude and it was lauded all across Indiana. Rick was far more in control post-brawl than flip-out Larry Brown or just about anyone else involved. This was a big part of how that team maintained, and in fact Tinsley was a central figure in the games that followed the brawl.

BIRD is the one who didn't handed Shawne, who chose him originally, who showed up at court and apologized for Shawne not showing up and then continued to let him linger with the team till Shawne kept up the issues even more. Larry let Harrison continue his behavior for a long time as well. Larry dumped Rick in favor of Tinsley and let Tinsley continue his behavior for another half season with a new coach when it should have been clear that the coach wasn't the issue.

Bad players were moved, Rick was fired, and yet the team kept having issues. So to me if there is a "soft" finger it should be aimed at Larry, who doesn't really seem to have control of the situation ever.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 02:14 PM
Really? Let's just stamp that in cement and make it permanent first.

Good, now then, how many AS seasons has Ron had? How many DPOY wins does Ron have? And what was his flagrant foul/behavior record like the year prior to that AS and DPOY season?

Yes, if only Rick could manage his personality as well as Phil did all season as Ron took horrible shot after horrible shot and continued to behave in his weird-a** ways. Ron got late playoff redemption, a couple of moments and games to make the rest be forgotten, but it wasn't a shining season for him. Neither was his time in Houston, neither was his time in Sacto.

His best, most controlled season came under Carlisle.

And Jack loved playing for Rick and apparently remains pretty close to him.


Calm <> soft, this is what Bird and Indy fans failed to realize. How many quality games did JOB get from Tinsley? How many quality games did Memphis get from Tinsley? And yet the coach Tins' hated somehow got a few good seasons from him. Tins just didn't like paying the cost of a lower APG value, but I'd say 1-2 months of doghouse bench when Rick first got here wasn't exactly soft. He sent a message that seemed to take, at least that year. And he did it without openly throwing Tins under the bus in the press.


Rick is non-emotional. When Reggie hit the shot vs Chicago they showed Bird and his non-emotional, this-was-expected attitude and it was lauded all across Indiana. Rick was far more in control post-brawl than flip-out Larry Brown or just about anyone else involved. This was a big part of how that team maintained, and in fact Tinsley was a central figure in the games that followed the brawl.

BIRD is the one who didn't handed Shawne, who chose him originally, who showed up at court and apologized for Shawne not showing up and then continued to let him linger with the team till Shawne kept up the issues even more. Larry let Harrison continue his behavior for a long time as well. Larry dumped Rick in favor of Tinsley and let Tinsley continue his behavior for another half season with a new coach when it should have been clear that the coach wasn't the issue.

Bad players were moved, Rick was fired, and yet the team kept having issues. So to me if there is a "soft" finger it should be aimed at Larry, who doesn't really seem to have control of the situation ever.

Excellent post. Although I am sure someone will criticize it even though the Pacers are and have been a mess in recent memory. Saying anything anti-Bird is sacreligious on these boards.

Dr. Goldfoot
06-30-2010, 02:54 PM
I only speak for myself but assume many Hoosiers agree with me.

1. A young point guard with promise.

2. A new coach.

3. A GM with a better poker face.

4. A team leader with a near larger than life personality. ( like Reggie)

5. Less vanilla players/personalities and by that I mean bland and nothing else.

I don't think many give a **** about any player on this team including Danny Granger. Which makes none of them untouchable.

Really?
06-30-2010, 03:26 PM
I want to know when Ricky Rubio came into the picture.

But seriously I want to Pacers to decide if they want to be good or bad this season, I am tired of horrible seasons to start out which make sure that we don't get into the playoffs, and then the good season at the end to make sure that we are not picking in the early lottery.

I want a team that is exciting and one that can fill up the Fieldhouse, games there now days just seem boring.

I want a Coach that meshes with the players and excites them about getting better.

I want them to take a chance on potential and younger players in the draft.(check mark)

Finally I want a team that likes playing with each other, and can bring back that Pacer spirit back to Indy, I think we all miss the old days when we always had teams who could compete for championships.... :(

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 03:29 PM
it is interesting the different ways everyone is anwering the question

Some are trying to answer for all Indiana fans

Some are answering for themselves in very broad terms, longterm .

Others are being very specific: new coach, new point guard......

Ozwalt72
06-30-2010, 03:31 PM
What do Indiana Fans Actually Want?

Free beer.

Bball
06-30-2010, 03:34 PM
Sure if I could become very good friends with some of the players, that would be fun to be on the inside,

I don't know about getting on the inside through getting to be friends with any players but I'd think your odds of buddying up to Jim O'Brien and being friends with him would be extremely high. :p

PaceBalls
06-30-2010, 03:41 PM
I want the Pacers to win. That drives all of my criticism of the coach and TPTB. On that point, I want a coach and front office that REQUIRES and VALUES defense over offense, or at least make them equally important.

As far as Indiana fans as a whole? I think most are so out of touch with the team, the Pacers are at minor league / Indians level.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't know about getting on the inside through getting to be friends with any players but I'd think your odds of buddying up to Jim O'Brien and being friends with him would be extremely high. :p

Some people think I am Jim O'Brien or at the very least a relative or good friend

Really?
06-30-2010, 03:43 PM
it is interesting the different ways everyone is anwering the question

Some are trying to answer for Indiana fans

Some are answering for themselves in very broad terms.

Others are being very specific

Yeah my thing is that I can only answer for myself, especially seeing that the responses are so different, not sure you can combine those into one. Only thing that you can say about all of them is that we want something in addition to what we currently have...

pacers74
06-30-2010, 03:45 PM
I want a promising team. One that looks like it is improving year after year. Not a team that is stuck in nuetral or reverse.

vnzla81
06-30-2010, 03:47 PM
we want a new coach

PaceBalls
06-30-2010, 07:02 PM
Some people think I am Jim O'Brien or at the very least a relative or good friend

You didn't really deny that there... :p

Pacersalltheway10
06-30-2010, 07:09 PM
Like everybody else I just want a team who can win over 40 games.

Peck
06-30-2010, 07:25 PM
Some people think I am Jim O'Brien or at the very least a relative or good friend

JOB is in no way cool enough to get his photo with El Pacero.:D

<a href="http://s437.photobucket.com/albums/qq98/parasource/?action=view&current=Picture458.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq98/parasource/Picture458.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Magic P
06-30-2010, 07:56 PM
Really? Let's just stamp that in cement and make it permanent first.

You're acting like i said only Rick was to blame, trust me there is enough blame to go around, or are you just a RC apologist? From Tinsley to Artest no one is doubting he brought out the best in his players he just didn't know how to handle divas and nutcases.

Artest taking bad shots is your proof Phil couldn't handle him? That's not good evidence especially when you didn't hear Artest's name in connection with anything weird or team destructive all season. Kobe wouldn't allow it, unlike Reggie who admitted he didn't do enough. Phil had Ron in check all season. Ron couldn't wait for the confetti to fall so he can start acting weird again, that's how good Phil was.

But your boy rick was soft, i don't want a coach that's just going to blink like cool joe when everything around him is falling apart. Coaches like Phil and Pat Riley, and even a Doc Rivers would nip the problem in the bud immediately.

Taterhead
06-30-2010, 08:15 PM
I know what Indiana fans want but what i don't get is why they won't support the team that they wanted. The fans cried for the "thugs" to leave (which happened to be our best players) and when we sucked like a team should once they traded their best players away they stop coming to the games like a bunch of babies and now the team could be leaving the city. I think we were spoiled by making the playoffs 16 out of 17 seasons.

I don't know how much Peja wanted to be paid, his agent said we gave a BS deal but once he left it was like we traded Artest a legitimate top 5 to 10 player in the NBA at the time for basically nothing. We traded JO for a guy who doesn't fit our system, but the Jax trade is what sent this team to the bottom of the league what a horrible trade in hind sight.

I get sick of certain types of people passing their beliefs as "Indiana's beliefs". I for one have seen a real thug or two in my life so I know the difference between our former players and them. They are spoiled rich folks on ego trips. But they aren't thugs by any means. And I don't look to them to be my role model and never have. I don't think many people really do in the first place. That is why it's a stupid idea to overreact and make impulse decision based solely on the noisiest opinion out there. Attendance is directly related to wins and that is it. The fallout from the brawl wasn't truly about the actions of the players that night, it was really about the perceived chance at a championship we lost that year. People defended the players after the brawl. Then the bitterness set in after awhile and the opinion changed.

Some people are suggesting getting Arenas because they know if he comes in and stays healthy, he makes us a much better basketball team. And trust me, attendance would rise if that happened no matter what you think of Arenas. Which would throw a monkey wrench in the argument that this state won't support people with character flaws. We all knew about our players character flaws way before they started getting in shootouts and brawls. Artest had his share of issues before that. Their character flaws didn't just all the sudden pop up out of nowhere. We chose to look the other way until our championship hopes were dashed.

As for me, I want this team to show a real commitment to winning. They seem to be satisfied with mediocrity right now. They are coming to us asking for taxpayers to bear the burden of operating their facility (which is ridiculous), well show us you are serious about winning then. Go out there and make a move. And stop pretending that you are hurting financially Herb, it's honestly laughable! You are one of the richest owners in all of sports. Nobody wants to lose money. But if you win you won't. And that is the bottom line.

Bball
06-30-2010, 10:18 PM
Some people think I am Jim O'Brien or at the very least a relative or good friend

For the record I don't think you are Jim O'Brien, a relative, or a friend...

I just think O'Brien is slipping you some coin... :twocents:

PaceBalls
06-30-2010, 10:28 PM
JOB is in no way cool enough to get his photo with El Pacero.:D



Yikes! Turn the blur setting down!

BillS
07-01-2010, 09:58 AM
I get sick of certain types of people passing their beliefs as "Indiana's beliefs". I for one have seen a real thug or two in my life so I know the difference between our former players and them. They are spoiled rich folks on ego trips. But they aren't thugs by any means. And I don't look to them to be my role model and never have. I don't think many people really do in the first place. That is why it's a stupid idea to overreact and make impulse decision based solely on the noisiest opinion out there. Attendance is directly related to wins and that is it. The fallout from the brawl wasn't truly about the actions of the players that night, it was really about the perceived chance at a championship we lost that year. People defended the players after the brawl. Then the bitterness set in after awhile and the opinion changed.

And I get sick of certain types of people pooh-poohing the idea of character in a ball team as indication of ignorance at best and racism or hatred at worst.

I don't know why I keep trying to make this argument, but there are lots of people who were watching the team while it was winning but didn't connect with the team or the players because they were not likable on or off the court. This means that as soon as some adversity hits, whether it be losing or bad press, people stop caring or become actively hostile. Comments of the hostile cause coverage to stop and cause stores to stop selling merchandise, which indirectly promotes the team, and things spiral downward.

I've really said the brawl itself was not the issue, but that the way fans were treated by Ronnie afterward (some would say "with contempt") and the media reaction led to very bad effects from incidents that, had they been stand alone, might have been tolerated. The season after the brawl was greeted with great optimism, but the "I want traded" snub and the events of the next calendar year put paid to it.

The knock from many was that TPTB waited TOO LONG to solve the problems, so how can "impulse decision" be part of the equation?

Losing attendance was a combination of character and losses, but character started it and losses accelerated it. You can see this from the standings vs. the attendance figures for the next year, as has been done before. I mean, seriously, you really expect that the only way a team can sell tickets is to win 70% or more of its games? If that is the case, how can you have a league when a majority of teams can't meet those expectations? It is the other things - the building love for the team and its players - that sustain teams through bad times.

To get people BACK will require winning, I don't argue with that. But winning without the character changes would no more have fixed the problem than changing character without winning has done - although there are many who claim that if the team was simply "playing the right way" they'd be there even if they went 0-82.

D-BONE
07-01-2010, 10:05 AM
Just in the short term, I'd like talent acquisition that seems like it has some purpose. TH might turn out to be a good choice. By my estimation he'll make a great PF off the bench that adds energy, boards, and even a little scoring punch.

Given the bevy of PGs that went after that though, I just have a hard time with it. Especially given that we've reportedly inquired about some of those very players we passed on in trade talks.

Of course, this coming on the heels of spending $ on players like DJ, SJ, et al when we could have tried to retain J Jack. Okay the guy wasn't going to be a star PG, but at least he was a known quantity with a good attitude, leadership qualities, and had had a very positive impact on the floor and in the lockerroom.

I don't dislike the George pick under the circumstances, but there is far from a guarantee that he'll realize his potential. If they botch handling all these expirings-particularly Murphy who would seem to have interest-then my patience will be exhuasted. Waiting for the deadline to draw closer can be a double edged sword if we end up getting stuck against a wall and having to actually bend to a suitors whim in order to get anything for those contracts.

pizza guy
07-01-2010, 12:14 PM
And I get sick of certain types of people pooh-poohing the idea of character in a ball team as indication of ignorance at best and racism or hatred at worst.

I don't know why I keep trying to make this argument, but there are lots of people who were watching the team while it was winning but didn't connect with the team or the players because they were not likable on or off the court. This means that as soon as some adversity hits, whether it be losing or bad press, people stop caring or become actively hostile. Comments of the hostile cause coverage to stop and cause stores to stop selling merchandise, which indirectly promotes the team, and things spiral downward.

I've really said the brawl itself was not the issue, but that the way fans were treated by Ronnie afterward (some would say "with contempt") and the media reaction led to very bad effects from incidents that, had they been stand alone, might have been tolerated. The season after the brawl was greeted with great optimism, but the "I want traded" snub and the events of the next calendar year put paid to it.

The knock from many was that TPTB waited TOO LONG to solve the problems, so how can "impulse decision" be part of the equation?

Losing attendance was a combination of character and losses, but character started it and losses accelerated it. You can see this from the standings vs. the attendance figures for the next year, as has been done before. I mean, seriously, you really expect that the only way a team can sell tickets is to win 70% or more of its games? If that is the case, how can you have a league when a majority of teams can't meet those expectations? It is the other things - the building love for the team and its players - that sustain teams through bad times.

To get people BACK will require winning, I don't argue with that. But winning without the character changes would no more have fixed the problem than changing character without winning has done - although there are many who claim that if the team was simply "playing the right way" they'd be there even if they went 0-82.

I agree with you here, BillS. We had had a few off-court incidents and on the court the players were whiny and hot-headed. I loved watching them win, but at the same time, I never liked the attitudes. And, I know plenty of people who didn't connect to the "thugs" on the team and wouldn't watch because of them. Then, when they stopped winning every night, it all fell apart. Then the "I don't care as long as they win" crowd stopped watching, and the "I don't care if they win, they're a bunch of 'thugs'" crowd got really frustrated.

Winning and character both count. I'd say it's not an equal balance though. It's probably 70% winning and 30% character when you're talking about "fans." Probably 60/40 when you're talking about "purists." Both groups are incredibly important to a franchise because the purists keep it alive in the down years and the fans really bring in the money when things are going well.

--pizza