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MyFavMartin
06-28-2010, 10:46 PM
Watching the NBA channel and in a team like Toronto, who is potentially losing Chris Bosh with nothing in return (and is also looking to trade Hedo), the commentators pointed out that the only way Toronto gets players back from a team like Miami or Chicago, who has very little on their rolls currently, is to get a third team like the Pacers involved...

Toronto
May be interested in Foster and Dunleavy, if they can move Hedo's contract, to address their needs for a big man who can defend and rebound and compliment Bargnani, softer, longer version of Troy, and in Mike, a facilitator... Toronto gets two quality veterans to help the rebuilding process and cushion the loss of Bosh...

Mike: $9.7 (expiring)
Foster: $6.0 (expiring)

-----------------------------------------------------

Any other examples you guys can come up with?

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 10:48 PM
As long as Hedo doesn't come this way.

MyFavMartin
06-28-2010, 10:51 PM
Might Toronto be interested in Okafor for nothing in return (except the obligatory 2020 2nd rounder)?

vnzla81
06-28-2010, 10:53 PM
Im sorry but nobody wants Foster or Dunleavy at this moment their value is just because they are expirings contracts

MyFavMartin
06-28-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm thinking Dun and Foster have the higher trade value.

Does Murphy have any? Which teams have a Center that would be a good match for him? Orlando? Would Toronto want Rashard Lewis?

MillerTime
06-28-2010, 10:57 PM
Watching the NBA channel and in a team like Toronto, who is potentially losing Chris Bosh with nothing in return (and is also looking to trade Hedo), the commentators pointed out that the only way Toronto gets players back from a team like Miami or Chicago, who has very little on their rolls currently, is to get a third team like the Pacers involved...

Toronto
May be interested in Foster and Dunleavy, if they can move Hedo's contract, to address their needs for a big man who can defend and rebound and compliment Bargnani, softer, longer version of Troy, and in Mike, a facilitator... Toronto gets two quality veterans to help the rebuilding process and cushion the loss of Bosh...

Mike: $9.7 (expiring)
Foster: $6.0 (expiring)

-----------------------------------------------------

Any other examples you guys can come up with?

We give up 2 expirers and get who in return? Hedo? No thanks, he has one of the worst contract in the NBA right now...I watched him play almost every game last year, and it was really bad. He couldnt play one game because he was hung over. He looks like hes gained some weight also.

Bosh? Sure, I'd do it, who as a Pacers fan wouldnt. But would Bosh agree to a sign and trade to come to Indy? Most likely not

MyFavMartin
06-28-2010, 11:10 PM
No, my thoughts are that a team like Toronto is under the cap (or partially) and would be able to take on non-matching contracts or trade exceptions.

spazzxb
06-28-2010, 11:27 PM
I would like to trade TJ ford for Jarrett Jack. They can have their garbage back along with an expiring contract, while we get the player they stole from us (and are having buyers remorse about).

Pacers2012
06-29-2010, 12:13 AM
A more likely scenario would be us trading murphy and whoever to toronto. Bosh signing with another team like the Nets. With the Nets sending us Devin and a 2nd rounder. This doesn't work with many teams since the teams Bosh wants to be on either have no one to offer us (miami) or dont want to trade any of their talent away (bulls). The lakers might be the only option for a 3 team deal with us in the mix. I don't like odom but, raptors send bosh to LA. we send murphy an someone to toronto and we get Odom and farmar who wants to start. Farmar has a year left of his contract 2.8 mil. So it would be a year try out for him. That still gives us plenty of cap room to make more moves next year. This move would have to be a last ditch effort tho. I am not for bringing in odom and farmar unless its all the pacers can do. I'm not as worried as everyone else is about gettin a long term guard. Next year doesn't look promising either so we can be patient.

QuickRelease
06-29-2010, 01:14 AM
I would like to trade TJ ford for Jarrett Jack. They can have their garbage back along with an expiring contract, while we get the player they stole from us (and are having buyers remorse about).I like Jarrett Jack, but he's little more than serviceable. He's a good player, just not good enough to go out of your way to reacquire.

spazzxb
06-29-2010, 01:21 AM
I like Jarrett Jack, but he's little more than serviceable. He's a good player, just not good enough to go out of your way to reacquire.

4.5 million contract for three years. Hopefully in three years he would be our backup but i would be happy with him starting this year and he wouldn't prohibit us from getting someone else for the long term.

Kraut N Beer
06-29-2010, 07:17 AM
Jack has been crazy durable, playing in 79, 79, 82, 82, and 82 games his first five seasons. That would be valuable to any team in this league.

Anthem
06-29-2010, 07:45 AM
Heh. I like the TJ for Jack idea a lot, even though my preference long-term would be for Jack to be our backup PG.

DgR
06-29-2010, 09:49 AM
Heh. I like the TJ for Jack idea a lot, even though my preference long-term would be for Jack to be our backup PG.

I'm not too good at this but would that work straight up? Wouldn't the Raps need to give us more than Jacke? I thought JJ's contract is about half the size of Ford's...

Peck
06-29-2010, 12:12 PM
And the legend of a mid level backup player continues to grow.

wintermute
06-29-2010, 12:29 PM
I'm not too good at this but would that work straight up? Wouldn't the Raps need to give us more than Jacke? I thought JJ's contract is about half the size of Ford's...

yes.

tj and solo for jarrett jack and reggie evans (expiring contract) works.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2010, 02:06 PM
yes.

tj and solo for jarrett jack and reggie evans (expiring contract) works.


I'd vote for that in a heartbeat, and never have 2nd thoughts about it. Unfortunately, Tornoto has tried Ford and Calderon at PG b4. I don't see Toronto doing the deal.

Anthem
06-30-2010, 07:49 AM
And the legend of a mid level backup player continues to grow.
Doesn't grow at all. When Jack signed with Toronto, I was holding onto hope that we'd find a way to trade AJ and clear up cap space to keep Jack.

He played well for us, you just resent him because Obie kept playing him at the 2. That's not his fault.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm thinking Dun and Foster have the higher trade value.

Does Murphy have any? Which teams have a Center that would be a good match for him? Orlando? Would Toronto want Rashard Lewis?

:confused:
-Foster: missed 2/3 of season w/ back surgery, getting older
-Dunleavy: comming off serious knee surgery had one of worst yrs. as a pro.
-Murphy: Coming off 2nd season as one of the top double-double guys in the league.

Am I missing something?

MyFavMartin
06-30-2010, 10:20 AM
understand your point but Foster doesn't need the ball and Dun is a facilitator... Murph fits well with certain FC situations (athletic post presence with good defense) but is a defensive liability.

With knees it takes 2 years, and Dun is in his 2nd yr and Foster pretty much had last year off, so I'm thinking he should have a decent year health wise... Both guys I could see as stronger contributors for a team making a playoff push... (Murph doesn't have any PO experience.)

But that's just my $0.02.

MyFavMartin
06-30-2010, 10:23 AM
Jack was the bast backup PG in the league with the Pacers... I think he's better than some here give him credit for.

I'd be happy to have him back. Good defense and leadership qualities...

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 10:28 AM
Honestly, I don't believe the Pacers are not going to make any moves until the Lebron/Wade/Bosh sweepstakes is over. At that point, other teams will be trying to get players to "fill in the holes". I'm pretty much under the impression that Bosh will be a package deal with either Wade or Lebron.

Swish
06-30-2010, 10:36 AM
Watching the NBA channel and in a team like Toronto, who is potentially losing Chris Bosh with nothing in return (and is also looking to trade Hedo), the commentators pointed out that the only way Toronto gets players back from a team like Miami or Chicago, who has very little on their rolls currently, is to get a third team like the Pacers involved...

Toronto
May be interested in Foster and Dunleavy, if they can move Hedo's contract, to address their needs for a big man who can defend and rebound and compliment Bargnani, softer, longer version of Troy, and in Mike, a facilitator... Toronto gets two quality veterans to help the rebuilding process and cushion the loss of Bosh...

Mike: $9.7 (expiring)
Foster: $6.0 (expiring)

-----------------------------------------------------

Any other examples you guys can come up with?

I don't get it...what is the trade that you are thinking of, exactly? You are wanting to trade Dun and Foster for Hedo?

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 10:39 AM
I'd gladly welcome a sign and trade for Bosh using our expiring contracts. Of course, Toronto would never consider that in all likelihood, but I'd do it for the Pacers.

--pizza

Swish
06-30-2010, 10:41 AM
I think you mean Bosh would never consider that.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 12:30 PM
Honestly, I don't believe the Pacers are not going to make any moves until the Lebron/Wade/Bosh sweepstakes is over. At that point, other teams will be trying to get players to "fill in the holes". I'm pretty much under the impression that Bosh will be a package deal with either Wade or Lebron.
I agree.
IMO:
-Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
-The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
-Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
-Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

So what does this mean for us?
-If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

-Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 12:44 PM
I agree.
IMO:
-Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
-The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
-Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
-Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

So what does this mean for us?
-If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

-Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....

Pretty much. Indiana is pretty much a junkyard of players/contracts that other teams can use to fine tune themselves.

Gamble1
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
I agree.
IMO:
-Bosh is all but a done in Mia w/ Wade.
-The King can go to Mia or will have to team up w/ 2nd tier FA's or stay in Cle.
-Amare & J.Johnson likely to end up in NY (both know DiAntoni's system).
-Boozer to decied between NJ (w/ Lopez) or Chi (w/ Rose & team).

So what does this mean for us?
-If NJ strikes out, or is needing more "star" or "win now" assets, I would not be surprised to hear Harris/Favors for Granger/? talK to resurface. IMO, other then the PG Q for NJ, this makes sense for IN. I get the sense the NJ owner wants to win now, not wait on a project in Favors, esp if they land a Boozer or Amare.

-Any team losing a FA will likely want to do a S&T. Talent in return will be OK, but not close to equil. They will either want to move some of those assets, or move some of their exsisting contracts for faster-expiring deals. This is where we can get involved if we feel the incoming talent is worth losing some '11 cap space. (ex. Tor may want to move Jack for exp if they aquire M.Chalmbers).

I would not be surprised if there is already a deal or two in place w/ someone pending FA results! Our collection of talent & lack of urgency/concern post-draft could be explained by this. Something had to result form all those pre-draft trade discussions....
I agree with you but that is a big question mark there. I just don't see Harris as more valueable than Granger to this team.

Lets also not forget that we are also in win now mode too. Trading Granger is only going to cost us wins. I see Bird trying to get Maynor or Hill before trying to trade Granger.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 01:01 PM
I agree with you but that is a big question mark there. I just don't see Harris as more valueable than Granger to this team.

Lets also not forget that we are also in win now mode too. Trading Granger is only going to cost us wins. I see Bird trying to get Maynor or Hill before trying to trade Granger.

Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!

Sparhawk
06-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!

If Granger got us Favors and Harris...I would so do that. Not a huge fan of Harris, but I think Favors is gonna be good.

Not sure how Paul would feel about his workout buddy getting traded so soon though.

Gamble1
06-30-2010, 01:22 PM
Don't disagree either, but let play what if....
What if n/y you have Harris & Favors ,w/ George now @ the 3, you have: Hibbert/Favors/George/Stephenson/Harris, w/ Hansbrough & Rush starting off your bench, & HUGE cap space is not bad place to be at all, IMO.

I am not a "Trade Granger" guy, but I would have to think hard about this!
I can clearly see that you believe in this years draft more than I do. Seriously Stephenson starting ahead of Rush????

In any case this move would depend on what Bird thought of George/Favors. IMO that lineup is 2-3 years away from winning. The exact time when Harris would have to be resigned.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 01:37 PM
I can clearly see that you believe in this years draft more than I do. Seriously Stephenson starting ahead of Rush????

In any case this move would depend on what Bird thought of George/Favors. IMO that lineup is 2-3 years away from winning. The exact time when Harris would have to be resigned.

My reason for Shephenson over Rush was more conversation starter then anything, but also to be honest I'm not sure Rush is here at the start of '11 (Then again nor is Stephensonfor that matter). Don't read to much into that other then Stephenson could have more of a starter mentality then Rush has, thus the swap on my projection.

I agree w/ the Harris but we would have his Bird rights & if all goes well, the young core around him would be pretty good ( :pray: ) - just entering their prime. He may not want to leave. Besides, someone's contract will always be up, you can't construct a team by being afraid someone might leave 3 yrs from now.

Gamble1
06-30-2010, 02:33 PM
My reason for Shephenson over Rush was more conversation starter then anything, but also to be honest I'm not sure Rush is here at the start of '11 (Then again nor is Stephensonfor that matter). Don't read to much into that other then Stephenson could have more of a starter mentality then Rush has, thus the swap on my projection.

I agree w/ the Harris but we would have his Bird rights & if all goes well, the young core around him would be pretty good ( :pray: ) - just entering their prime. He may not want to leave. Besides, someone's contract will always be up, you can't construct a team by being afraid someone might leave 3 yrs from now.
When its your core player then ya you do. I mean look at the FA's market this year. Every team is sweating it out including Boston now.

I can see the best case scenario with the trade you proposed being a OKC team in 2 years. The worst case is Minny or some other lottery team.

Don't get me wrong I get it. We need a good/great pg but its silly to make a lateral move IMO. If we upgrade the pg position and don't have to break the bank to do it then we will have enough money in 2011 to round out the roster.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 02:51 PM
When its your core player then ya you do. I mean look at the FA's market this year. Every team is sweating it out including Boston now.

I can see the best case scenario with the trade you proposed being a OKC team in 2 years. The worst case is Minny or some other lottery team.

Don't get me wrong I get it. We need a good/great pg but its silly to make a lateral move IMO. If we upgrade the pg position and don't have to break the bank to do it then we will have enough money in 2011 to round out the roster.

I respectfully disagree that you worry about a player 3 yrs down the road. Things can change very fast in this league. 3 yrs is a long time, & if your plan is to improve, then you have to have confidence. Look how 1/2 a season have NO fans willing to give up CP3 because they have Collison. Look how quickly teams like Por or Den turned around w/ Roy & Mello. Win now, worry about "what if" later!
Also, you will be able to pay DH more then anyone else, & can get assets in return if you do a S&T. I don't get how you can see Harris wanting to leave when we know 1/2 our roster (if not more) will be different then, & we could be a rising team in the East in 3 yrs.

This is a 2 for 1, not just a Harris deal. If we are talking Harris vs. Granger, then I agree w/ you that you pass on this deal, but you have not once mentioned or considered the talent of Favors in ant rebuttle. Favors is why I do this deal, for no other. If you can get a potential all-star talent who could be a stud PF for 10+ yrs, & Harris for Danny, you do that. (I have not even mentioned George's potential, who could be DG2 or better (or not I know...)).

Gamble1
06-30-2010, 05:39 PM
I respectfully disagree that you worry about a player 3 yrs down the road. Things can change very fast in this league. 3 yrs is a long time, & if your plan is to improve, then you have to have confidence. Look how 1/2 a season have NO fans willing to give up CP3 because they have Collison. Look how quickly teams like Por or Den turned around w/ Roy & Mello. Win now, worry about "what if" later!
Also, you will be able to pay DH more then anyone else, & can get assets in return if you do a S&T. I don't get how you can see Harris wanting to leave when we know 1/2 our roster (if not more) will be different then, & we could be a rising team in the East in 3 yrs.

This is a 2 for 1, not just a Harris deal. If we are talking Harris vs. Granger, then I agree w/ you that you pass on this deal, but you have not once mentioned or considered the talent of Favors in ant rebuttle. Favors is why I do this deal, for no other. If you can get a potential all-star talent who could be a stud PF for 10+ yrs, & Harris for Danny, you do that. (I have not even mentioned George's potential, who could be DG2 or better (or not I know...)).
So you are comparing the Pacers situation to Denver getting lucky with one of the best draft classes ever and NO bad finacial planning. Personally I highly doubt they get rid of CP3 because a rookie showed some promise.

I am sort of confused with what you are saying. Highlighted above you are saying "win now worry about the other stuff later" right... Do you honestly think that a team featuring 2 rookies (Favors + George) is going to win now.

At best you are hoping that the Pacers are a rising team in 3 years with Favors and Paul George working out. Mind you JOB will probably limit their minutes the first year hence prolonging their develop. You may think Favors is the best pf since Garnett but the dude is raw and he will take a lot of time to develop.

I haven't mentioned potential for 2 reasons. One it means nothing until its proven and second its what the Pacers have been saying about every rookie they have drafted or traded for (WIlliams, Bender, Tinsley, Harrison, etc etc etc.

Now the Pacers finally drafted a guy who panned out and we are suppose to trade him away for Harris? A guy who couldn't win more than 12 games and directed his team to the 4th worst record ever???? This being with a true center in Brook Lopez. You can rebutle and say it was of bad coaching but how is the coaching here?? How would Mr. Harris do with JOB?

I respect that you see all star potential in George and Favors but I am just not willing to risk this franchise leaving do to "possible" potential.

tadscout
06-30-2010, 05:57 PM
FYI- the Draft day Granger to Nets (Harris and Favors) has been reported to be nothing but a complete made up story/ smokescreen... the two teams never even talked about such a deal...

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 07:03 PM
So you are comparing the Pacers situation to Denver getting lucky with one of the best draft classes ever and NO bad finacial planning. Personally I highly doubt they get rid of CP3 because a rookie showed some promise.

My point was to merely to show how fast opinions of a fan base or the fortunes of a franchise can change quickly. You were worried about what may or may not be an issue (resigning Harris) 3 years in the future. My point was worry about the now, & the what if's later.


I am sort of confused with what you are saying. Highlighted above you are saying "win now worry about the other stuff later" right... Do you honestly think that a team featuring 2 rookies (Favors + George) is going to win now.

Probably worded poorly, but ment to imply the same as above. Worrying about what Harris may or may not want to do in 3 yrs is not a reason to not do a deal. Even 2 yrs. would be silly. I will acknowledge the wins would be harder, but IMO the mentality & expectations of the fan base would be different. Watching losses w/ Murph/Dun/TJ getting 30-40 min/gm is one thing, watching a team w/ the youth & potential that the lineup mention would have is another.


At best you are hoping that the Pacers are a rising team in 3 years with Favors and Paul George working out. Mind you JOB will probably limit their minutes the first year hence prolonging their develop. You may think Favors is the best pf since Garnett but the dude is raw and he will take a lot of time to develop.

My best guess is that w/ Murph gone & the writting on the wall, JO'B would not be something I would worry about. With the young talent & cap space we would have, I don't think finding a coach would be an issue. I also doubt Larry would let JO'B make it long if he was sitting the people who the fans would be coming to see.


I haven't mentioned potential for 2 reasons. One it means nothing until its proven and second its what the Pacers have been saying about every rookie they have drafted or traded for (WIlliams, Bender, Tinsley, Harrison, etc etc etc.

Just because we missed in the past does not mean we would again. Williams was a poor decision based on character not talent, Bender had huge talent but no knees & no frame for his position, Tinsley self distructed after his mother died, & Harrison was a late 1st & a shot at getting lucky on an big w/ skills. While disapointing, these players have nothing to do w/ Favors or George.


Now the Pacers finally drafted a guy who panned out and we are suppose to trade him away for Harris? A guy who couldn't win more than 12 games and directed his team to the 4th worst record ever???? This being with a true center in Brook Lopez. You can rebutle and say it was of bad coaching but how is the coaching here?? How would Mr. Harris do with JOB?

Your best argument yet!
Again though, it is Harris & Favors, not just Harris. Not sure what happened in NJ, but I do know Harris was hurt for the first 1/4 of the season, & by then the hole was deep. Can not say NJ looked like a team who wanted to win, as tanking seemed like an early call by TPTB in NJ. As to why move Granger, lets start w/ SF is an easier position to fill then PG. lets second that w/ elite bigs are almost as hard to find - something we would be counting on favors to be. George has a similar game w/ similar size & he is young & on the roster already. Harris also has a smaller contract w/ less yrs at a more desired position if things don't work out. Granger is entering his prime now & the core would not be ready when he is.


I respect that you see all star potential in George and Favors but I am just not willing to risk this franchise leaving do to "possible" potential.

Can't argue w/ you, as I'm not convinced myself, just making the argument. :)

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 07:06 PM
FYI- the Draft day Granger to Nets (Harris and Favors) has been reported to be nothing but a complete made up story/ smokescreen... the two teams never even talked about such a deal...

So we've been told....

Not saying we/ they did or did not, but it would make some sense for both.
Truth is, we will likely never know for sure, & it is in the best interest for the teams to say what they are saying now....