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View Full Version : Pistons trade Corliss for Coleman......



Kstat
08-04-2004, 06:26 PM
Well, Derrick has proven that he'll play hard for larry brown, so I suppose its a worthy risk. He'll play 10MPG at MOST anyhow.

Corliss is a very good guy, but he just didnt fit under Larry Brown. This is also a move to clear PT for Carlos Delfino at backup SF.

The Pistons have so much big man depth now, its insane.

Pig Nash
08-04-2004, 06:32 PM
a year ago, i'd say dumars was crazy if he made this trade but you're right. Corliss doesn't fit in LB's system. Coleman does.

blanket
08-04-2004, 06:34 PM
and here I thought Philly wanted to get BIGGER?!?

RimBender
08-04-2004, 06:50 PM
I love DC. He is a great guy and a good player. Big Nasty was awesome though. At 6' 7 who else can do what he does, defending PFs and sometimes even Cs.

ABADays
08-04-2004, 07:07 PM
Is it just me or does it seem we are falling behind just a tad?

dipperdunk
08-04-2004, 07:32 PM
The Sixers benefit by adding a decent role player for their bench. Their bench is getting deep with solid veteran players. DC might be able to help Detroit in limited minutes off the bench because he is a smart player but his knee injury really slowed him down last season and he was abused by athletic front court players. I don't think DC has anything left in the tank but we'll see. :whoknows:

SycamoreKen
08-04-2004, 08:03 PM
I love DC. He is a great guy and a good player. Big Nasty was awesome though. At 6' 7 who else can do what he does, defending PFs and sometimes even Cs.

Malik Rose.

zxc
08-04-2004, 08:14 PM
Is it just me or does it seem we are falling behind just a tad?

We were already behind since they just won the championship, but don't see how this puts us any farther back. Should we be making moves just for the sake of making moves? This seems like a lateral move at best. I don't think DC has anything left either and Corliss was still productive at times. Was often a problem for us anyway. Pistons moves this offseason not impressing me at all. I think their bench is gonna be much worse off this year. Gonna be relying on some players with very questionable recent injury history to be their backup bigs and a rookie at the sf/sg spots.

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 08:33 PM
...Pistons moves this offseason not impressing me at all. I think their bench is gonna be much worse off this year...

I've been thinking along those same lines as well.

ABADays
08-04-2004, 08:34 PM
OK - now I'm relieved.

J-Wont
08-04-2004, 08:42 PM
The Pistons have so much big man depth now, its insane.

Yeah, the Pistons big man depth would be insane if 75% of it weren't washed up, way-past-their-prime scrubs.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 09:19 PM
..Pistons moves this offseason not impressing me at all. I think their bench is gonna be much worse off this year...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh:

as assisinine comments go, that may be the worst.

Corliss Williamson SUCKED for us last year. I like the guy, but to say we lost anything with him and his croshere-eqque salary is a joke.

Dalfino, Dupree, McDyess and Coleman for Okur and Corliss, who were without a doubt our two biggest dissapointments from last season?

Um, yeah, i'm going out on a limb and say that out bench will be VASTLY much more effective this year.... its bigger, stronger, and better defensively.:rolleyes:

zxc
08-04-2004, 09:38 PM
:rolleyes: What a homer.

McDyess and Coleman are not vast improvements over anything. Better defensivley.. right. I guess you didn't see much of either of them last year when they actually played. And Dupree... who? The only way the piston bench might be better this year is if Delfino is as good as piston fans claim he is going to be, and I really doubt he will be as a rookie.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 09:54 PM
:rolleyes: What a homer.

McDyess and Coleman are not vast improvements over anything. Better defensivley.. right. I guess you didn't see much of either of them last year when they actually played. And Dupree... who? The only way the piston bench might be better this year is if Delfino is as good as piston fans claim he is going to be, and I really doubt he will be as a rookie.


I think you meant to say "world champions homer":rolleyes:

And once again, we gave up nothing. You are obviously betting that both coleman and McDyess will get injured again, because if they both stay healthy, this is the best bench in the NBA, bar none. You cant doubt that either of them are talented, especially antonio.

And Ronald Dupree was a guy I've been wanting on the Pistons for the last 9 months He's as close to freddie Jones as I've seen in the NBA last year.. At the backup 2-guard spot, he's better than anything we had at that spot last year. We had to cut him as a matter of number last october and everyone knew it was a mistake. We'd have been a much better team last year if we'd kept him.

ROCislandWarrior
08-04-2004, 10:02 PM
I think Joe D is making sure that no one "one ups" his team.

If they don't win the chip again...it won't be because they kept players who "weren't working out for them" just because they won it all with them on the team.

These players are not being brought in to re-structure the way this team plays. They are being brought in to help the already existing core of the team to run smoothly.

Pistons could have gone elsewhere but that is not what Joe D wanted. He is fine tuning his machine...it's a long race to repeat...there is no room for bad parts.

Will it work?

Only time will tell. That is the one thing about sports... they are unpredictable

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:06 PM
Is it just me or does it seem we are falling behind just a tad?

Just you. DC is a subraction by addition. It made me smile. ;)


Actually, trading corliss for a ham sandwich would have beena plus. Coleman only has a year left on his deal, while corliss had a pretty pricey deal for the next several years, and his production had gone to crap.

I agree there's a possibility that coleman could be a headcase, but there was also the sam possiblity with sheed. And like last year, it was a no-lose situation. If worse comes to worse, we release him at anytime, and buy out his contract at year's end. Even without him our bench is better than last year's, and we'll have cleared $6 million off our cap. Its a win-win deal.

Bball
08-04-2004, 10:06 PM
Should we be making moves just for the sake of making moves?

IMHO.... yes.... A team should make moves just for the sake of making moves. I'm not talking trading your franchise player on a whim but I can see solidifying your bench or just seeing that your bench doesn't stagnate (or get too comfortable) as a reason to make changes and tweak the edges. It also helps keep the fan base energized and give them some 'fan favorite' type players to root for or even speculate about. ...Altho Lord knows people are still speculating about Bender's ascension to greatness ;)

That said... we did make some changes and might make more so the above is a generic answer and not necessarily a Pacer critique for this year.

-Bball

blanket
08-04-2004, 10:08 PM
I think Joe D is making sure that no one "one ups" his team.

Actually, this looks more like a classic Larry Brown move, rather than the shrewd moves of Dumars. The first of many LB motivated trades to come over the next few years, I suspect.

zxc
08-04-2004, 10:08 PM
I think you meant to say "world champions homer":rolleyes:


Yeah because you are a fan of the team that won the title it gives you the right to write off others opinions as assinine just because you don't agree with them.

And even if they are reasonably healthy the entire year(pistons do have the best trainers in the history of the NBA if I recall, so it could happen) I still don't think they will be as effective as you seem to believe they could be. But of course my opinions are assinine and yours seem to be something we should all take as facts, so I guess I am wrong already even though they haven't even played a game yet for you guys.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:12 PM
I think you meant to say "world champions homer":rolleyes:


Yeah because the team you are a fan of won the title it gives you the right to write off others opinions as assinine just because you don't agree with them.

And even if they are reasonably healthy the entire year(pistons do have the best trainers in the history of the NBA if I recall, so it could happen) I still don't think they will be as effective as you seem to believe they could be. But of course my opinions are assinine and yours seem to be something we should all take as facts, so I guess I am wrong already even though they haven't even played a game yet for you guys.



I wasnt arguing that they would be GREAT, though I think thats certainly a possiblity. Our bench was crap last year, and didnt fit in LArry's system. They players we have now are a much better fit for the system.

You said that the bench would be WORSE next year, and yes i definately think thats assinine. I dont think there's any way that this year's bench, with actual SHOOTING GUARDS ans SMALL FORWARDS, will match the ****-poor season last year's bench had. We spent most of last year playing PGs at SG, playing SFs at PF, playing PFs at center off the bench, it was nothing but square pegs in round holes.

unstandable
08-04-2004, 10:13 PM
Actually, this looks more like a classic Larry Brown move, rather than the shrewd moves of Dumars. The first of many LB motivated trades to come over the next few years, I suspect.

By those criteria getting Sheed was the first LB move, and that worked out pretty well. Brown was pushing for Joe to trade for him from early on in the season. But obviously Joe D has the final say on everything and isn't going to get someone he doesn't like just to please Brown.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:15 PM
Actually, this looks more like a classic Larry Brown move, rather than the shrewd moves of Dumars. The first of many LB motivated trades to come over the next few years, I suspect.

By those criteria getting Sheed was the first LB move, and that worked out pretty well. Brown was pushing for Joe to trade for him from early on in the season. But obviously Joe D has the final say on everything and isn't going to get someone he doesn't like just to please Brown.


Yeah, I didnt get that either. LB has input, but he does not, and will never call the shots. This was a typical win-win deal for Joe D. I'm sure Larry wanted Coleman, but we actually SAVED money by getting him, and if he messes up, he's gone and worst case scenario, we dumped corliss for $6 million in cap space. Fine by me.

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 10:18 PM
Pistons are making too many changes.

A defending championship team shouldn't be making too many moves.

canyoufeelit
08-04-2004, 10:20 PM
I don't really know what to think of this move. Who is the worse player, Corliss or Coleman - I can't even tell at this point! Corliss bungles layups and doesn't play any defense, while Coleman clanks jumpers and doesn't play any defense.

This combined with the McDyess move are very risky for KStat's favorite team... I would not be surprised if both spend most of their time on the IR. But if healthy and if Coleman gets his act together, that could really pay off.

the risk- what if coleman is still a headcase, what if mcdyess slips on a banana peel, what if "Portland Sheed" comes out of the closet this year? That would leave the champs with two headcases and a guy with silly putty knees :laugh:

pretty risky moves by Dumars IMO, at least Okur and Corliss were sure things, even if they weren't that great...

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:20 PM
Pistons are making too many changes.

A defending championship team shouldn't be making too many moves.

......and at the same time we're the first champion since 1997 to leave our starting 5 intact....:rolleyes:

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 10:23 PM
......and at the same time we're the first champion since 1997 to leave our starting 5 intact....:rolleyes:

Just because the starters are the same does not mean the team is not making too many moves.

indytoad
08-04-2004, 10:24 PM
Really,the Pistons have done nothing but improve upon what was already the best team in the league. Pacers'll have to make another big move to be anywhere near the same level next year.

IndyToad
A rediculous fool

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:27 PM
I don't really know what to think of this move. Who is the worse player, Corliss or Coleman - I can't even tell at this point! Corliss bungles layups and doesn't play any defense, while Coleman clanks jumpers and doesn't play any defense.

This combined with the McDyess move are very risky for KStat's favorite team... I would not be surprised if both spend most of their time on the IR. But if healthy and if Coleman gets his act together, that could really pay off.

the risk- what if coleman is still a headcase, what if mcdyess slips on a banana peel, what if "Portland Sheed" comes out of the closet this year? That would leave the champs with two headcases and a guy with silly putty knees :laugh:

pretty risky moves by Dumars IMO, at least Okur and Corliss were sure things, even if they weren't that great...



Ok, on your first point, corliss makes Coleman's jumper look like ray allen's. Corliss certainly "clanks" more Jumpers than Colmean does. Corliss was going to be our 11th man this year anyhow, he had to go.

And if there's anything in the NBA I cant stand, its GMs that play it sfae. There's no such thing as a "safe" championship-calibur move, guys. The "safe deals are usually lateral trades that guarentee the GM to keep his job, but usually dont lead anywhere significant.

Yeah, Sheed could go off, mcdyess could get injured, i know. But Bender could dislocate his shoulder from being hit by a stiff breeze, and Artest could go off, so why aren't you in a hurry to run them out the door for much "safer" players?

As long as the goal is the championship, I dont really care what the risk is. nd place or 29th place, its all the same to me. Championship or bust.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:29 PM
......and at the same time we're the first champion since 1997 to leave our starting 5 intact....:rolleyes:

Just because the starters are the same does not mean the team is not making too many moves.


Actually, our starters are what won us the title last year. Our bench was just along for the ride, especially in the ECF. Outside of hunter and maybe campbell, there wasnt ONE guy off the benhc that made any kind of playoff contribution altogether. It was time for a bench overhaul.

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 10:29 PM
I'm a firm believer of the "Don't fix what ain't broken" philosophy...

edit: Just testing a FillText thing...I like it!

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:30 PM
I'm a firm believer of the "Don't fix what ain't broken" philosophy...

Then you agree with me then, cause the bench last year was broken as hell.

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 10:33 PM
Then you agree with me then, cause the bench last year was broken as hell.

Well, I don't think the bench was broken...I thought it was a pretty decent bench. And I'm looking at this from a team standpoint.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:37 PM
Then you agree with me then, cause the bench last year was broken as hell.

Well, I don't think the bench was broken...I thought it was a pretty decent bench. And I'm looking at this from a team standpoint.

Milwaukee's bench outscored ours in round 1. Indy's bench smoked ours in the ECF, heck NEW JERSEY's bench outscored ours, and they only play EIGHT GUYS.

%80 of our playoff games our startes built an early lead, our bench gave it up, and our starters had to come back in to re-take the lead.

zxc
08-04-2004, 10:38 PM
I wasnt arguing that they would be GREAT, though I think thats certainly a possiblity. Our bench was crap last year, and didnt fit in LArry's system. They players we have now are a much better fit for the system.

You said that the bench would be WORSE next year, and yes i definately think thats assinine. I dont think there's any way that this year's bench, with actual SHOOTING GUARDS ans SMALL FORWARDS, will match the ****-poor season last year's bench had. We spent most of last year playing PGs at SG, playing SFs at PF, playing PFs at center off the bench, it was nothing but square pegs in round holes.


Think saying the bench was crap last year is a bit of a stretch. Weren't as good as the year before but was still an above average bench. And I don't see how you can tell that these new guys, especially the rookie who seems to play such a huge part in the bench plans, are going to fit into Larry's system any better than that was there. I'm seeing a whole lot of question marks on that bench, and no vast improvement like you said. But won't really know what's what till the season begins I suppose. Anyway, keeping the whole starting unit together again for a full year I don't think it is really gonna matter if the bench is a bit weaker, still probably going to be a better team this time around.

Anthem
08-04-2004, 10:41 PM
Bench carried you for a lot of the regular season.

I agree though, good move by Dumars. Say, didn't he live through a little shakeup of a championship team during his playing days?

Anyway, this trade bums me out because I was hoping against hope that we'd move Croshere for Coleman.

MSA2CF
08-04-2004, 10:43 PM
Milwaukee's bench outscored ours in round 1. Indy's bench smoked ours in the ECF, heck NEW JERSEY's bench outscored ours, and they only play EIGHT GUYS.

%80 of our playoff games our startes built an early lead, our bench gave it up, and our starters had to come back in to re-take the lead.

Yet, the team still won the NBA Finals. It doesn't seem to me like it mattered whether the bench was "broken as hell" or not. They won with that bench, so I don't agree why the number of changes the team has made this offseason is what it is.

canyoufeelit
08-04-2004, 10:44 PM
I don't really know what to think of this move. Who is the worse player, Corliss or Coleman - I can't even tell at this point! Corliss bungles layups and doesn't play any defense, while Coleman clanks jumpers and doesn't play any defense.

This combined with the McDyess move are very risky for KStat's favorite team... I would not be surprised if both spend most of their time on the IR. But if healthy and if Coleman gets his act together, that could really pay off.

the risk- what if coleman is still a headcase, what if mcdyess slips on a banana peel, what if "Portland Sheed" comes out of the closet this year? That would leave the champs with two headcases and a guy with silly putty knees :laugh:

pretty risky moves by Dumars IMO, at least Okur and Corliss were sure things, even if they weren't that great...



Ok, on your first point, corliss makes Coleman's jumper look like ray allen's. Corliss certainly "clanks" more Jumpers than Colmean does. Corliss was going to be our 11th man this year anyhow, he had to go.

And if there's anything in the NBA I cant stand, its GMs that play it sfae. There's no such thing as a "safe" championship-calibur move, guys. The "safe deals are usually lateral trades that guarentee the GM to keep his job, but usually dont lead anywhere significant.

Yeah, Sheed could go off, mcdyess could get injured, i know. But Bender could dislocate his shoulder from being hit by a stiff breeze, and Artest could go off, so why aren't you in a hurry to run them out the door for much "safer" players?

As long as the goal is the championship, I dont really care what the risk is. nd place or 29th place, its all the same to me. Championship or bust.

my problem with this move is that Dumars is signing two guys who have a history of constantly being on the IR. One is made of glass and the other is injury-prone and just plain crazy. Sure, you have to take risks to be a championship team, but if these moves don't pan out and both Dice and Derrick both end up like someone played russian roulette with their kneecaps, you can't guarantee a championship even with a starting 5 as good as Detroit's is. Rasheed and Ben are turning 30 this year and as history shows, big dudes will eventually begin to decline somewhere down the line - and without backups that you can count on to be healthy, I would predict that decline to happen earlier.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:49 PM
I wasnt arguing that they would be GREAT, though I think thats certainly a possiblity. Our bench was crap last year, and didnt fit in LArry's system. They players we have now are a much better fit for the system.

You said that the bench would be WORSE next year, and yes i definately think thats assinine. I dont think there's any way that this year's bench, with actual SHOOTING GUARDS ans SMALL FORWARDS, will match the ****-poor season last year's bench had. We spent most of last year playing PGs at SG, playing SFs at PF, playing PFs at center off the bench, it was nothing but square pegs in round holes.


Think saying the bench was crap last year is a bit of a stretch. Weren't as good as the year before but was still an above average bench. And I don't see how you can tell that these new guys, especially the rookie who seems to play such a huge part in the bench plans, are going to fit into Larry's system any better than that was there. I'm seeing a whole lot of question marks on that bench, and no vast improvement like you said. But won't really know what's what till the season begins I suppose. Anyway, keeping the whole starting unit together again for a full year I don't think it is really gonna matter if the bench is a bit weaker, still probably going to be a better team this time around.

The thing is, I know the games of each of the guys we got very well. Heck, Dupree PLAYED in it for 7 preseason games.

PG-Mike James=Hunter-Wash. Hunter is much better defensively, a little worse offensively. But the damage he does to the other team's PG cant be discounted

SG-Lindsey Hunter<Ronald Dupree-Dupree's addition excites me more than McDyess or Delfino. We didnt HAVE a 2nd 2guard last year anyhow, and Dupree is as athletic and as fearless as they come.

SF-Corliss<Carlos Delfino- Delfino is the kind of player Larry loves. He slashes, plays great D, and hustles his butt off. Corliss is a good psot scorer and gets decent position, but he has no clue how to handle a double team, he was slow on D, he was an awful rebounder, and his range extends about 5 feet.

PF-Okur<McDyess- Okur is in the Dirk mode. He needs to be ina system where he can take long jumpers at will and take some plays off on D without fear of getting benched. McDyess, if he stays healthy, is another guy thats just a better FIT in our system. He's a great rebounder and defender, certainly better at both than anyone on last year's bench.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:51 PM
Bench carried you for a lot of the regular season.

I agree though, good move by Dumars. Say, didn't he live through a little shakeup of a championship team during his playing days?

Anyway, this trade bums me out because I was hoping against hope that we'd move Croshere for Coleman.


Well, during our 1st year, we swapped our starting SF Adrian Dantly for Mark Aguirre mid-season. The Next year, out starting PF Rick Mahorn was taken in expansion, and we replaced him with Rodman in the lineup.

Burt_Reincarnated
08-04-2004, 10:52 PM
No one has mentioned that they are going to lose James maybe too. Another great defensive player. Are they going to keep Hunter, he is a pretty old guy. They Look kinda week at PG as of right now.

Anyway I see that team taking a step back defensively.

Anthem
08-04-2004, 10:54 PM
Well, during our 1st year, we swapped our starting SF Adrian Dantly for Mark Aguirre mid-season. The Next year, out starting PF Rick Mahorn was taken in expansion, and we replaced him with Rodman in the lineup.

That was my point. Forgot the :rolleyes:, I guess.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 10:55 PM
No one has mentioned that they are going to lose James maybe too. Another great defensive player. Are they going to keep Hunter, he is a pretty old guy. They Look kinda week at PG as of right now.

Anyway I see that team taking a step back defensively.

Hunter is a better defender than Mike James. Both Antonio and COleman are better defenders than Corliss and Memo.

Elden's expiring $5 mil deal will probably be moved for another PG now, probably Jeff Mcinnis. Itd be nice if we could take Atkins back from Boston also.


There's also a good chance as well that we'll move coleman for a PG.

Burt_Reincarnated
08-04-2004, 11:05 PM
No one has mentioned that they are going to lose James maybe too. Another great defensive player. Are they going to keep Hunter, he is a pretty old guy. They Look kinda week at PG as of right now.

Anyway I see that team taking a step back defensively.

Hunter is a better defender than Mike James. Both Antonio and COleman are better defenders than Corliss and Memo.

Elden's expiring $5 mil deal will probably be moved for another PG now, probably Jeff Mcinnis. Itd be nice if we could take Atkins back from Boston also.



Hmm well it looks to me like the Pistons are growing older, and more injury prone with these trades. DC is a decent player, but he is way past his prime. I think your assessment on Corliss not being as good a defender is up for debate. I wonder if last week someone asked you that if you would have the same reply... probably not :rolleyes:

But I think you are right, if James does leave, they will have to get another PG. The question is will he be as good a defender, you seem to think James wasn't very good on D, I thought that was what made him special.

Kstat
08-04-2004, 11:12 PM
No one has mentioned that they are going to lose James maybe too. Another great defensive player. Are they going to keep Hunter, he is a pretty old guy. They Look kinda week at PG as of right now.

Anyway I see that team taking a step back defensively.

Hunter is a better defender than Mike James. Both Antonio and COleman are better defenders than Corliss and Memo.

Elden's expiring $5 mil deal will probably be moved for another PG now, probably Jeff Mcinnis. Itd be nice if we could take Atkins back from Boston also.



Hmm well it looks to me like the Pistons are growing older, and more injury prone with these trades. DC is a decent player, but he is way past his prime. I think your assessment on Corliss not being as good a defender is up for debate. I wonder if last week someone asked you that if you would have the same reply... probably not :rolleyes:

But I think you are right, if James does leave, they will have to get another PG. The question is will he be as good a defender, you seem to think James wasn't very good on D, I thought that was what made him special.


Corliss has NEVER been a good defender at the 3 spot.

At PF he can guard people but he cant score.

At SF he can score but he cant guard anyone.

And at both positions he was consistently beat for offensive boards.

And in any case, McDyess in a wheelchair would still be a better rebounder and defender than Corliss.

And not ONCE will you ever hear me say James want a god defender. I think he's a top-15 defensive PG. I just happen to think Hunter is a top-5 defensive PG.


Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about this deal because I think COleman is a world-beater, I'm excited because it rids us of a $6 mil salary and allows us to turn around and trade campbell or coleman's expiring contracts for a solid packup PG. Whichever one goes, I'm happy with the one that stays.

Kegboy
08-04-2004, 11:17 PM
Dalfino, Dupree, McDyess and Coleman for Okur and Corliss, who were without a doubt our two biggest dissapointments from last season?


Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy saying late last season that Detroit's bench was better than ours because of guys like Okur and Williamson?

:confused:

Also, weren't you also saying that Cro for Coleman wouldn't be a good trade for us? If it wasn't for us, why is it for you? Again, might have been somebody else.

As for my take on the trade, I was on the record saying I didn't want Coleman here, so I can't say I think of this as a plus for Detroit. Maybe Larry will work his magic on him again. But then, maybe he won't.

Also, Darko moves another chair further down on the bench. Poor guy. :(

Kstat
08-04-2004, 11:25 PM
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy saying late last season that Detroit's bench was better than ours because of guys like Okur and Williamson?

Corliss was never a huge factor, but I certanily espected more out of Memo in the ECF than he gave out. He did a lot in the playoffs to prove to me that he just didnt have the toughness needed to play on the biggest stage.


Also, weren't you also saying that Cro for Coleman wouldn't be a good trade for us? If it wasn't for us, why is it for you? Again, might have been somebody else.

If our coach wasnt larry brown, who is the only guy that Coleman has played hard for over the last 15 years, I'd agree with you. That said, I still have my doubts. The thing I didnt know before today was that Coleman had a buyout after this season. Had I know that, I'd have been all for Croshere for Coleman.

Also, Coleman on Indiana is the 2nd big man off the bench after Bender, and thats only if Bender cna even be CONSIDERED a big man. On Detroit, he's our 4th, maybe 5th big man, so there isn't the risk.


Also, Darko moves another chair further down on the bench. Poor guy

Not really, either Campbell or Coleman will probably be moved for a backup PG.

J-Wont
08-05-2004, 12:02 AM
Corliss was one of Detroits best offensive players, he seemed to go off at times and keep them in games. Thats something "Kneecap" McDyess and "Cancer" Coleman can't provide.

Hicks
08-05-2004, 12:16 AM
All I know, Kstat, is that for all you hype up the guys coming to your team, especially your new backup 2 and 3, I keep remembering how you swore up and down Okur would be the next Dirk, and maybe better because he can play in the post, and that by the end of last season Darko would be a regular contributer. So let's just say I won't hold my breath.

Unclebuck
08-05-2004, 12:20 AM
This trade does not change my opinion about the Pistons at all. I don't think it makes them better, but it certainly does not make them any worse.

Corliss played very little in the ECF and the NBA Finals

Kstat
08-05-2004, 12:21 AM
keep remembering how you swore up and down Okur would be the next Dirk

....and in Utah, he will be. I stand by that stamentent %100, and I'm sure he'll prove me right. Okur is a very talented guy, he just isnt a good fit in our team.

As for Darko, I think he'll play THIS year, Of course LAST year I was going off of a newspaper report. This wasn't my own intuition, I was going a Detroit News article that SAID Joe D guarenteed Darko PT after the allstar break. EIther the Sheed trade changed things, or the article was flat out wrong, i dunno. But i did NOT just come out of the blue with that prediction.

So far, my track record on predictions has been rather good, I'd say.

As for this trade, I NEVER hyped up coleman, I hyped up the TRADE, which is basically like trading croshere for a side salad at Wendy's.That side salad may step up and be a heck of a salad, or it may not. But either way, you just saved $6 million dollars for the next several seasons, and that is NEVER a bad thing.


Hicks, you of ALL people shoudl remember how crazy I was over Dupree last oactober, I was pissed as hell when we cut him. And he proved my point when he put up 18 and 9 in his first start with the bulls. He's got crazy athletic ability and speed. His jumper needs some work, but we have plenty of shooters, we needed slashers like he and Delfino to draw the defense and open the floor for our spot-up shooters.

Hicks
08-05-2004, 12:24 AM
Sounds like it's newspapers telling you about this new SF of yours.

Kstat
08-05-2004, 12:28 AM
Sounds like it's newspapers telling you about this new SF of yours.

Never, and I mean NEVER have I based my opinion of a player on a newspaper or scouting report.

Delfino is a young Michael Finley with a weaker jumper. He's stocky, athletic, and he can dunk on you or dish it off. He's more of a point forward than a natual small forward. His jumper is below average, but he does almost everythign else well. Had he been available this year, he'd have been a top-9 pick. Definately more polished than %95 of the rookies in this year's draft.

I've been following him in italy ever since we drafted him a year ago. You'll get a chance to see him yourself on Argentina's olympic team, he'll be running the point with ginoboli as the off-guard.

Kstat
08-05-2004, 12:35 AM
NBAtv televised all of Delfino's games in the euro league playoffs last year, and his team made it to the finals. Unfortunately I dont have NBA TV, but I was able to catch a few of them. Also I checked his box scores every chance I got.

I'd say Delfino was on NBATV at least 7 times total over the last year. Most pistons fans have seen him at least once.

Hicks
08-05-2004, 12:37 AM
Never, and I mean NEVER have I based my opinion of a player on a newspaper or scouting report.

Originally said by you:

"As for Darko, I think he'll play THIS year, Of course LAST year I was going off of a newspaper report."

:rolleyes: :p

Kstat
08-05-2004, 12:39 AM
Never, and I mean NEVER have I based my opinion of a player on a newspaper or scouting report.

Originally said by you:

"As for Darko, I think he'll play THIS year, Of course LAST year I was going off of a newspaper report."

:rolleyes: :p



exactly what does one quote have to do with the other?:confused:

how much or how little darko plays doesnt affect my opinion of him....

kerosene
08-05-2004, 12:42 AM
I remember when Wendys had a salad bar. I miss those days. We don't have enough big men to trade Croshere for a salad, but I would definitely trade Pollard for Wendys to bring back the nice salad bar.

Man me too. That dinner bar thing with the tacos and pasta and stuff. I'll dump Pollard for that too then catch a ride with someone to Wendy's after a few cold ones. Mmm mmm.

MagicRat
08-05-2004, 01:12 AM
I miss Burger Chef and Jeff......:cry:

http://www.freewebs.com/burgerchef/with%20or%20without%20ad.JPG

Fool
08-05-2004, 01:20 AM
Kegboy's got you there Kstat, you did argue that Detroit's bench rivaled (or was better) than Indiana's during the playoffs.

Corliss' contract has been a burden (probably Joe's worst deal so far) as he made Ben Wallace and Billups money but didn't produce as they did in the playoffs (where teams shifted to take advantage of his lack of heigth and the tighter interior D helped to cancel out his quickness). I will miss his scoring in the regular season where he was quite apt at sliping into seams and where help D covered his lack of D. Corliss' D was noticably lacking in the playoffs where he was replacing either Prince at SF or Rasheed at PF, smaller SF were quicker then him and slower PF shot over him or backed him down (it didn't help that both the Nets and your Pacers have stars at both positions, but even Kukoc and the hated Van Horn lit him up).

That said I think Kstat is selling last years bench short a bit. Though they did seem better in the regular season (because of how Brown used hem). In the playoffs Brown rotated 3 guards (Hunter almost esclusively) and refused to play Memo even when the entire roster over 6'7 had fouled out (if Memo wasn't gone before, he was packing his bags after that game). Its true that when multiple bench players were on the floor in the playoffs the team never increased or created a real lead but they were quite effective at single matchup situations and I think the thing that hurt the bench most was Brown's idea of what a bench is for (namely holding the fort defensively while the starters get ready to play again, rather than say how Harrington wass used as a spark to ignite a stalling team).

As pointed out earlier, I agree that the Pacers and the Pistons are in the same boat with Rasheed/McDyess and Artest/Bender. Both expect the crazy one to stay cool and the fragile one to hold strong. Delfino is suppose to replace the scoring that Corliss put up (which in the playoffs wasn't much and shouldn't be hard). Brown simply didn't let Memo play offensively in the playoffs so swaping in McDyess shouldn't be too much of a loss there and as a boarding and defending specialist I would hope he would add more there than Memo did. Rasheed should make up the extra scoring both Corliss and Memo were capable of in the regular season so that doesn't trouble me.

I like Coleman's range (good for a big man) and banking on a guy to be stable for 8-10 minutes a game that Brown already knows how to control isn't a big risk and I'd be suprised if he's still on the team after this year anyway (I think the trade was primarily cap driven for next year's offseason). HOWEVER, this trade does make me weary of Brown gaining too much influence on team make-up (though this isn't the first time Dumars has gone after Coleman) as I don't like Brown's tendency to reject talent in favor of utility. I know the value of role players but no amount of role players can ever make up for not having enough pure talent to get the job done.

Fool
08-05-2004, 01:38 AM
I wouldn't call Kstat a spin doctor. I'd rate him on par with most people here as far as optimistic about the team they follow.

Also, its a Pacer board so only major Piston activity (like trades and the like) make news here. I would assume that he is more critical of the Pistons on Detroit boards (like me) if he posts to any. You guys are usually optimistic about Pacer trades and the like while being more critical when things are slower or you are debating possible trades (well most of you are).

Anthem
08-05-2004, 02:27 AM
Man, those pictures are making me hungry. You know who used to have a GREAT sandwich bar? Flakey Jakes. They rocked. Is there still a Flakey Jake's in Castleton next to that carwash?

Best Buns in Town!!!

kerosene
08-05-2004, 02:39 AM
Man, those pictures are making me hungry. You know who used to have a GREAT sandwich bar? Flakey Jakes. They rocked. Is there still a Flakey Jake's in Castleton next to that carwash?

Best Buns in Town!!!

Ah man, my younger brother was out here last week and we went to a Fuddruckers. Same type deal as Flakey Jake's which I was a fan of. I'm gonna try to go back soon (ya know, I try not to gorge myself on stuff like that). Try the Fuddruckers if that's up your alley.

I asked him and he said the Flakey Jake's in Castleton is long gone, but that's where I used to go too. heh.

naptownmenace
08-05-2004, 08:33 AM
One thing that Kstat is overlooking in this trade is that the Pacers had a hard time with Corliss. For whatever reason, the Pacers always have a difficult time defending guys like Corliss, Malik Allen, Kenny Thomas, and Maurice Taylor.

The Pacers will have no problem at all defending Coleman (shutting him down is a good possibility) and McDyess hasn't shown anything in nearly 4 seasons. He's no better than Austin Croshere at this point. Plus, his knees are liable to come unscrewed again at any moment.

Signing Ronald Dupree has been the most impressive thing the Pistons have done so far. I like Dupree a lot. Delfino might work out well for them as well.

Gyron
08-05-2004, 08:37 AM
Coleman was a head case and a general pain in the arse when he played foor the hornets a few years ago.

The team had a lot of attitude problems down here with Coleman in the locker room. I don't see this as being a big addition to the bench of the pistons other than to say that Derrick is very familiar with Larry's system, so very little learning time in that aspect. In that respect, he may do better that Corliss, but only slightly.

He was washed up when he left Charlotte, so I think the only real benefit that Coleman has experience with LB and that his contract will expire for the pistons next season.

MagicRat
08-05-2004, 08:46 AM
Man, those pictures are making me hungry. You know who used to have a GREAT sandwich bar? Flakey Jakes. They rocked. Is there still a Flakey Jake's in Castleton next to that carwash?

Best Buns in Town!!!


The Castleton Flakey Jake's is now a Tony Roma's.....

sixthman
08-05-2004, 08:48 AM
Once again Dumars shows he knows to handle the cap. This move gives the Pistons increased financial flexibility without hurting the team much, if at all.

Elden Campbell probably goes next?

I admire Joe Dumars although I despise the evil Pistons.

beast23
08-05-2004, 09:17 AM
Kstat is a homer.... but I think he is a very intuitive and realistic "homer".

Detroit did sit back just because they won the title. They are out there making moves that they believe will improve their team over the short haul while also acquiring shorter contracts to free cap space for future signings.

They have gotten bigger this season. As we know, their guards already pose us problems.

Two or three quick guards and an abundance of big men who have shown great capabilities in the past (try to remember that they will only be asked to muster those capabilities for 10-12 minutes a night for the Pistons). Now don't you think that combination will cause problems for the Pacers?

Right now, it appears that the Pacers are banking on our guards being somehow able to contain Hamilton. We've added Jackson, who may or may not help, and we've added Gill, who won't see all that much time.

Up front, we've gotten leaner (the loss of Al), while the Pistons have gotten bigger.

I say bring on Dampier. He's about the only piece out there and available that would help even the playing field against the size the Pistons (and the Heat) have accumulated.

I think MSA2CF raises perhaps the most valid point. The Pistons have brought in a lot of new faces. That probably poses a bigger risk to them than any one trade that they have made. On paper, they look pretty good.

MSA2CF
08-05-2004, 09:42 AM
MSA2CF: Wouldn't the Pistons be fools not to attempt an upgrade? They were considered underdog champions...next season is only going to get harder with teams coming at them hoping to say they got a piece of the champs. Roster improvement is a must, especially in regards to protecting the future of the team. Study San Antonio for this successful formula of always being great while also overhauling the roster.

If the point you are trying to make about them being underdog champions is that they weren't really that good, you're wrong. They were a pretty good team, and the way I see it, the team was just fine how it was and could have made the NBA Finals again with that team.

You're right, teams need to improve the roster, but an overhaul is not needed. Tweaking is a good method. And San Antonio has had a different situation than most, BabbleOn. They have had two of (who I consider) top 50 All-Time players. That's a pretty nice tool to use when "overhauling" a team.

The Pistons don't have anyone (who I consider) to be one of the all-time great players.

spelling errors

Liquid Slap
08-05-2004, 10:12 AM
I love reading this message board when it's KSTAT v. The World. It's so entertaining. "The Pistons are great" "No, the Pistons suck" "It was a great trade" "No it was a terrible trade" "The Pistons are better" "No the Pistons are worse" "I said this" No you said that" It's just great. Keep it going guys :cool:

Bball
08-05-2004, 12:24 PM
:lurk:

-Bball

ChicagoJ
08-05-2004, 12:27 PM
This has been one of my favorite threads in a few weeks.

Random comments:

DC is a nice pickup for the Pistons - because its been proven that the only coach he'll play hard for is Brownie.

Corliss and the Pistons' bench disappeared in the playoffs.

Joe D would be a fool to sit still and not improve the bench... I can't see how anyone could argue that a team should "stand pat" just because they won last season's championships. Everyone is gunning for them now, making improvements, trying to beat them. If Detroit went into next season with the same old, ineffective bench, they'd have a hard time repeating. Joe D is not a fool and I'm more impressed with him each time he makes a move.

I miss Burger Chef and Jeff. Hardees wasn't the same. Rat, where in the world did you find that poster? I've been LMAO for ten minutes. That was the home of the original bacon-cheeseburger, probably five years before Wendy's tried it. Now that I think about it, I'll bet I've got some hilarious old adds in some of my 1970's era Pacers programs in a box in the basement.

I keep discovering that Beast23 is the voice of reason around here.

Back to work... carry on your arguement here...

Kid Minneapolis
08-05-2004, 01:01 PM
I'd just like to comment that while the only coach Coleman will "play for" is Larry Brown -- that's not exactly saying a whole lot. Coleman never did live up to the hype and has had lotsa problems over his career. Even with him "playing" for Brown it's not like Coleman is a game-breaker... he's just not what he used to be, and that's not saying a ton.

Corliss was a helluva player in Detroit, and while his last year wasn't so great, that's indicative of the system he played in... The Big Nasty used to tear the P's up when we played them. In most given situations... I'd pick Corliss over Coleman any day if only for the fact that Brown's system seems to make Colemen better than Corliss.

Lateral move imo. Coleman is gettin' old. He's 37. He's also missed a lot of games over the past 5 years or so.

MSA2CF
08-05-2004, 02:51 PM
How worried would you be if you lost AC and/or Bender and/or F. Jones and gained proven veterans in return to fill in your bench? Are you worried about chemistry? Isn't it all about the key contributors, the cornerstones?

I'll worry if Ben, Sheed or Rip get traded. You can worry if JO or Artest get traded.

Yes, chemistry is an important part of what makes a team a team. No, it's not all about the key contributors. That's why the Lakers lost the NBA Finals, IMO, because they didn't play like a team.

I don't understand your last comment there about players being traded.

MSA2CF
08-05-2004, 05:36 PM
It's not a complex point. The Pistons can win another championship without Corliss Williamson or Mehmet Okur or Mike James or Darvin Ham or Termaine Fowlkes. The Detroit philosophy will still be intact as will the core of the team.

They can, but the changes the Pistons have made thus far have me thinking the chances that the team does win another championship, at least for the 2004-2005 season, have decreased.

sweabs
08-05-2004, 05:50 PM
If I was a Piston fan...I would be a little worried about McDyess and Coleman - both are very injury prone.

Merz
08-05-2004, 06:43 PM
Is it just me or does it seem we are falling behind just a tad?
I don't think the Pacers have fallen behind. I don't think the Pacers had to make many moves. I think the playoff experience that they recieved could possibly help this team out enough

Kstat
08-05-2004, 10:19 PM
Is it just me or does it seem we are falling behind just a tad?
I don't think the Pacers have fallen behind. I don't think the Pacers had to make many moves. I think the playoff experience that they recieved could possibly help this team out enough


The Pacers traded their #3 scorer, #3 rebounder, and their 6th man. THats a hell of a lot more than we gave up.

Anyone sweating us giving up corliss and Memo is simply reaching for straws. Corliss wasnt going to SEE the court this year, and a healthy McDyess is the 3rd Wallace. He's exactly the same type of defender and rebounder sheed is.

sweabs
08-05-2004, 11:01 PM
and a healthy McDyess

:laugh:

And true...Harrington was our #3 scorer, and our #3 rebounder. However, Jackson will also become those...if not better on any given night. Plus - the added bonus is Jackson plays a position where we were in need of help...Harrington definitely did not.

Kstat
08-05-2004, 11:21 PM
and a healthy McDyess

:laugh:

And true...Harrington was our #3 scorer, and our #3 rebounder. However, Jackson will also become those...if not better on any given night. Plus - the added bonus is Jackson plays a position where we were in need of help...Harrington definitely did not.

Oh? Jackson is going to carry your bench? Jackson is going to crash the offensive glass? Jackson is going to guard the other team's best big man off the bench? Enlighten me how Jackson is going to duplicate ANYTHING Harrington gave, except for scoring average.

Hicks
08-05-2004, 11:22 PM
We lose what Al gave us, but gain something we didn't have with Jax. It was a good trade; balanced the team.

Anthem
08-05-2004, 11:39 PM
Jackson is going to crash the offensive glass? Jackson is going to guard the other team's best big man off the bench? Enlighten me how Jackson is going to duplicate ANYTHING Harrington gave, except for scoring average.

Now, it's been a little while since the Pacers played a game, but I had this vague recollection of a guy named Jeff Foster that crashed the offensive glass and guarded the other team's best big man.

I don't remember Al spending too much time guarding the other team's best big man. And his rebounding numbers weren't that inspiring either.

It's hard to see Al for Jackson as anything except a major upgrade.

Kegboy
08-05-2004, 11:39 PM
We lose what Al gave us...

Which was nothing vs. Detroit.

Sad, but true.

Kstat
08-06-2004, 12:13 AM
Jackson is going to crash the offensive glass? Jackson is going to guard the other team's best big man off the bench? Enlighten me how Jackson is going to duplicate ANYTHING Harrington gave, except for scoring average.

Now, it's been a little while since the Pacers played a game, but I had this vague recollection of a guy named Jeff Foster that crashed the offensive glass and guarded the other team's best big man.

I don't remember Al spending too much time guarding the other team's best big man. And his rebounding numbers weren't that inspiring either.

It's hard to see Al for Jackson as anything except a major upgrade.

Al was the only guy other than JO who got points in the paint.

And you convenirntly forgot to mention that I said he guarded the other team's BENCH's best post threat. Harrington allowed JO and Foster to get extended rest. Without him, Indiana's bench really suffers defensively, in the paint, and on the boards. Both Bender and Croshere are perimeter players that cant do what Al did.

Anthem
08-06-2004, 01:30 AM
And you convenirntly forgot to mention that I said he guarded the other team's BENCH's best post threat.

I misunderstood you. I thought you meant he was a bench player to guard the other team's best post threat.

Well, I'll agree that backup post men will have an easier time against Bender than they will against Al. There's this guy named Big Nasty in Detroit that always gives us problems.... oh wait. :devil:

For true big men, Croshere's actually a decent post defender. It's the only position he can defend well. For swingmen, Bender has the potential. We'll see what happens.

I guess on my scale of problems this year's Pacer team will face, "Defending opposing backup big men" isn't really high on the list. With a starting frontcourt of Foster, JO, and Ron, our frontcourt D seems pretty solid to me. What we didn't have is any way to keep teams from packing the lane on JO. Enter Stephen Jackson.

Anthem
08-06-2004, 03:28 AM
Plus you can never be too deep at the pf/c positions, but I definitely think that we upgraded.

Oh, there's no question that you guys are as good, if not better. It's part of why I'd LOVE to see a Pollard-for-Cliffy swap. I really like Cliff, and I think he'd be really quality depth at PF behind JO and Croshere.

We're pretty weak at C, though. Harrison may or may not work out.... I'm really disappointed that we didn't protect Brezec over Reggie. I was also pretty bummed that we didn't pursue Blount, who I think would be a great fit next to Jermaine. I really hope that Jermaine's prepared to spend a lot of time at C and Bender's prepared to spend a lot of time at PF.

able
08-06-2004, 06:12 AM
It is indeed just funny to read, especially Kstat's comments, like a leaf in a storm, read his opinion on the Det bench last year and you'll see what i mean.

SJax being a downgrade from Al is ridiculous, a free ride ont he merry-go-round for Al would have been an upgrade for a player that has always dissapreared in the playoffs, and after hearing his comments upon arrival in Atl. must have been a lousy lockerroom influence, Al not only wanted to be the MAN, he was sure he WAS the man, and displayed that countless times on the court, hence his nickname of "blackhole"
I can only conclude that SJax has little to do to improve this team over Al, his being the 3d in several categories on this team doesn't mean that much, seeing as he played starters minutes and made sure that once he got the ball he would at least attempt to score, regardless.

Trading Ron would not be ideal, but depending on who for would still possibly be an upgrade for several reasons, though I would prefer to keep him, indeed risks are fun and can pay of huge, the problems management has with a player are not my worry, players are paid to play, mamagement is paid to make it so they can, if that inconveniences anyone in the office then so be it. And in all honesty even if they needed a team of shrinks and nannies to keep up with Ron and make sure he fits in all the time, or at least most of the time, then so be it, they've saved plenty on his contract, no doubt if he had been a FA this off-season someone would have offered him a (near) max contract.

Our other "trades" and singings have not impressed me the least, I fail to see AJ bringing his playoff self all year, if he can, great, if he don't then Gill will have a real chance IF he's any good, which is somewhat doubtfull for a 3d string journeyman.

Kstat defends his team, he should, homer or not, it's just the ever changing opinion that makes it somewhat harder to swollow, but it's still fun to read :D
And no, I don't think Coleman is better then Corliss.
And yes they are taking a (worthwhile) risk with McD. in all they have not changed that much, but they could have improved somewhat with a little luck.
So can we, Gill may have a break out year, Bender might finally show his stuff (and if he does no one is gonna stop us) and Ron might be traded for Peja, whether the latter is good or not I'm not sure but will write about in the appropriate thread,


Boy, aren't we bored to dead by now?

:D

beast23
08-06-2004, 08:26 AM
Able -

I think downgrade is relative in comparing Al and Jackson.

By swapping the two, one cannot argue that we have lost an able-bodied big man in our front court and have replaced him with no one.

By the same token, the swap brought us back an additional long-range shooter and present or future starter in our backcourt, depending on your perspective. That does fill a hole in our abilities in the playoffs.

We robbed Peter (frontcourt) to pay Paul (backcourt) so to speak.

In what the Pistons have accomplished, they've gotten bigger and defensively better in their bench without affecting their starting lineup.

If the two teams were to replay their playoff series right now, assuming the Pacers could avoid foul problems among their starters in the frontcourt, we might fair better than we did, considering the addition of Jackson. With any type of foul problems in the frontcourt, we definitely have lost ground.

To remediate the risk, we need one more quality big body in the worst possible way.

As for Gill, being the third guard, it is unlikely that he will have a breakout season. Yes, I know that Tinsley came back from 3rd string last season, but he was a known quantity, and benifitted from simultaneous injuries to the starter and the backup.

And for Bender, I'd rather have a known, proven quantity in Dampier, who would greatly benefit our frontcourt. Bender may or may not break out.... for the 4th year in a row. It's the supposed promise of Bender that has me bored to death by now. Put a fork in him and serve him up on a plate in exchange for someone that can actually defend the post and fight for rebounds amongst the giants.

ChicagoJ
08-06-2004, 09:44 AM
And for Bender, I'd rather have a known, proven quantity in Dampier, who would greatly benefit our frontcourt. Bender may or may not break out.... for the 4th year in a row. It's the supposed promise of Bender that has me bored to death by now. Put a fork in him and serve him up on a plate in exchange for someone that can actually defend the post and fight for rebounds amongst the giants.

:amen: I nominate that for "best post of the off-season."

Kegboy
08-06-2004, 01:52 PM
The below is taken from a Blazers board 4 years ago:

And for O'Neal, I'd rather have a known, proven quantity in Davis, who would greatly benefit our frontcourt. O'Neal may or may not break out.... for the 4th year in a row. It's the supposed promise of O'Neal that has me bored to death by now. Put a fork in him and serve him up on a plate in exchange for someone that can actually defend the post and fight for rebounds amongst the giants.

:tongue:

beast23
08-06-2004, 02:03 PM
Kegboy -

I wouldn't doubt that in the least. At the time that the Blazers made the trade, it was a GOOD trade for them.

Davis was coming off of an All-Star season and was one of the top 2-3 defensive forwards in the league.

A lot of Bender supporters keep using this argument. It just doesn't hold water. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Jermaine's skill set and his knowledge of the game, and the Blazers knew that.

They also knew that he would never see the light of day playing behind the likes of Rasheed. And they desparately needed another center to team up with the aging Sabonis. The sacrifice was made, end of story.

I know one thing. The Pacers have got to get bigger and tougher to keep pace with the Pistons. And Bender is about the only dealable piece I'd be willing to use. Reportedly, Mullin wants him. What the hell? Let Mullin have him.

Burt_Reincarnated
08-07-2004, 06:27 AM
I like how this discussion went from the Piston fans all pattin themselves on the back with their offseason to comparing it to the Pacers, saying how the Pacers messed up by getting rid of AL. Talk about a 180 turnaround hahaha silly pistons fans..

Well I for one, maybe the only one, do happen to think the Pacers screwed up royally this offseason with trading AL, and Larry Bird will probably screw this team up even more by trading off Ron as well. Make no mistake, Ron AL and JO were the MAIN reason, the BIGGEST reason, the 3 man punch that made this team win 61 games. Right now I am neutral with Larry Bird, AL wanted out so they dealed. But yet they coulda started AL and sat Reggie's old butt on the bench. Getting rid of Ron though would secure my dislike of Larry Bird beyond the Isiah level. It would be hard to watch this team as they struggle to win 40 games knowing how close they were to being a championship team.

Anyway I think the Pistons have screwed up even more... so far compared to the Al trade. I am interested to see what they will do about the PG spot. Chemistry is everything, and time played together is a big part of that except for a few very skilled players who can do it all. (see olympic team for example)

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 12:29 PM
I would find it hard to believe that a team of our caliber, with most of the roster intact from last year, would struggle to win 40 games...

Burt_Reincarnated
08-07-2004, 04:45 PM
I would find it hard to believe that a team of our caliber, with most of the roster intact from last year, would struggle to win 40 games...

Most of the Roster except 2 out of the 3 best players. AL and Ron. It doesn't seem that hard to believe for me. Watch it happen, then as the Pacers regress into suckdom for years to come I can get some joy out of being able to say I told you so.

Hicks
08-07-2004, 05:09 PM
If we had simply watched Al and Ron drop off the face of the earth, and we didn't replace them with anybody, then I'd agree we'd struggle to win 40 games.

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 05:51 PM
Excuse me, Burt, but did the Pacers actually trade Artest yet?

Burt_Reincarnated
08-07-2004, 05:55 PM
Excuse me, Burt, but did the Pacers actually trade Artest yet?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Or are you just trying to nitpick? Jeezus

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 05:58 PM
Excuse me, Burt, but did the Pacers actually trade Artest yet?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Or are you just trying to nitpick? Jeezus

No, from your last post I assumed that Ron had been traded. I hadn't looked at any other threads before I came to this one, so maybe he had been traded already. I didn't know.

Pig Nash
08-07-2004, 06:44 PM
I just have to say one thing about this trade. Woopdee freakin doo.

PistonsDynasty
08-14-2004, 10:10 AM
Anyway I think the Pistons have screwed up even more... so far compared to the Al trade. I am interested to see what they will do about the PG spot. Chemistry is everything, and time played together is a big part of that except for a few very skilled players who can do it all. (see olympic team for example)

They'll use the same back-up pg that they used last year to win the championship.

Vicious Tyrant
08-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Magic Rat, may I just thank you from the bottom of my cholestoral laden heart for the Burger Chef and Jeff photo. My brother and I used to eat there over in Gas City Indiana as kids, and I had forgotten all about that place.

I don't know if these are good trades or not, but if Dice's knee holds out and DC keeps his head on straight and Delfino is all he's cracked up to be, I think that might be too much for anyone else out East. Lot of questions marks, though.

That said, how important is team chemistry in the NBA? It seems to me the game is more about reacting and instinct than, say, NFL (where coaching is king). Does another year together (with the Al/Jackson thing being the obvious exception) make our team better or the same?

Anthem
04-23-2005, 12:46 PM
Never, and I mean NEVER have I based my opinion of a player on a newspaper or scouting report.

Delfino is a young Michael Finley with a weaker jumper. He's stocky, athletic, and he can dunk on you or dish it off. He's more of a point forward than a natual small forward. His jumper is below average, but he does almost everythign else well. Had he been available this year, he'd have been a top-9 pick. Definately more polished than %95 of the rookies in this year's draft.

I've been following him in italy ever since we drafted him a year ago. You'll get a chance to see him yourself on Argentina's olympic team, he'll be running the point with ginoboli as the off-guard.

:bump:

Anthem
04-23-2005, 01:06 PM
"...Pistons moves this offseason not impressing me at all. I think their bench is gonna be much worse off this year..."

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh:

as assisinine comments go, that may be the worst.

Corliss Williamson SUCKED for us last year. I like the guy, but to say we lost anything with him and his croshere-eqque salary is a joke.

Dalfino, Dupree, McDyess and Coleman for Okur and Corliss, who were without a doubt our two biggest dissapointments from last season?

Um, yeah, i'm going out on a limb and say that out bench will be VASTLY much more effective this year.... its bigger, stronger, and better defensively.:rolleyes:

This was good too....

Mourning
04-23-2005, 02:55 PM
:lurk:

Fool
04-23-2005, 06:57 PM
Did you two not watch the Piston game this afternoon?

[edit: I hadn't seen the Delfino thread, I thought this was about the bench in general]

Kstat
04-23-2005, 07:01 PM
I stand by everything I said.

Delfino's talent was NEVER in question. He's got more all-around ability than he knows what to do with.

However, he's got emotional and mental issues that I didn't know about. I'm glad he was left off the playoff roster. Maybe it will teach him some humility.