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OakMoses
06-28-2010, 11:52 AM
I love that I can make something official just by typing that word in the title.

This thread has 2 goals: 1. To have an exhaustive list of the point guards that are available or are rumored to be available. 2. To do some advance scouting of those PG's.

After this initial post, I'll post a list of all the available PG's, and I'll update it until we have a PG not named Ford or Price on the roster.

My idea for the rest of the thread is for useful information about any of the players on the list. This could be anything from detailed statistics from 82games, Synergy, or another site, scouting reports, contract information, anything that you think might be useful as we evaluate and discuss these guys.

Things I'd prefer not to see: Extensive trade proposals, Useless fanboy type comments ("Chris Paul is the bomb!"), or overt bashing of our current coach or system.

All three of the above are acceptable in mild forms: "Anthony Carter might be available for Ford & Rush"; "Royal Ivey is much better than most people think"; "Kevin Ollie would not be a good fit for our system."

There's probably a 98% chance that our starting PG next year comes from the following list.

OakMoses
06-28-2010, 11:53 AM
UFA's (Sign or Sign & Trade)

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Earl Boykins
Shannon Brown
Anthony Carter
Javaris Crittenton
Travis Diener
Keyon Dooling
Eddie House
Allen Iverson
Royal Ivey
Anthony Johnson
Acie Law
Kevin Ollie
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Jamaal Tinsley
Earl Watson
Jason Williams
Marcus Williams

RFA's (Sign or Sign & Trade)

Bobby Brown
Will Bynum
Kyle Lowry
Patrick Mills
C.J. Watson

Trades (All these guys have been mentioned in trade rumors)

Gilbert Arenas
D.J. Augustin
Jose Calderon
Darren Collison
Mike Conley
Baron Davis
Monta Ellis
Jonny Flynn
George Hill
Kirk Hinrich
Jarret Jack
Ty Lawson
Eric Maynor
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Ramon Sessions
Delonte West
Louis Williams
Mo Williams

90'sNBARocked
06-28-2010, 12:00 PM
good list man

Of all the scenarios, I would like us to go after Sessions. HE has experience, is cheap, and is in a bad situation in Minny.

He would start right now for us, and would be an immediate upgrade

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Just glancing at that list, the first name....

Anyone remember the solid play Rafer was giving the Rockets a couple years back? He doesn't shoot a good percentage but he's at least decent from three point range.

He's a decent defender and very good at setting up his teammates.

Day-V
06-28-2010, 12:07 PM
Anyone remember the solid play Rafer was giving the Rockets a couple years back? He doesn't shoot a good percentage but he's at least decent from three point range.

No thanks. I don't like his attitude. Seems like a real dickhead.

BPump33
06-28-2010, 12:14 PM
No thanks. I don't like his attitude. Seems like a real dickhead.

Ok, but now tell us how you really feel. :D

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Day-V's right. Still, if we go veteran PG, someone with Rafer's skill set wouldn't be a bad option.

Day-V
06-28-2010, 12:22 PM
Ok, but now tell us how you really feel. :D

Do it, Bird! Bring him in! :D

CableKC
06-28-2010, 12:30 PM
I still think that Felton is the most realistic option for a solid Starting Veteran PG.

plutarch07
06-28-2010, 12:32 PM
mike conley would be a good gamble if he can he had in the right trade. i hear oj mayo wants to be a point and will be a pg next season, so mike becomes more expandable. the only thing is I am not sure I am sold completely on him, he is not a bust but he hasnt worked out in memphis so far.

Sparhawk
06-28-2010, 12:38 PM
good list man

Of all the scenarios, I would like us to go after Sessions. HE has experience, is cheap, and is in a bad situation in Minny.

He would start right now for us, and would be an immediate upgrade

Not only that, but the Wolves currently just have 1 SG and not a very good one at that. Perhaps they might be interested in Rush. It's just too bad that Khan seems to hate Bird. They seriously have too many PGs though.

Day-V
06-28-2010, 12:42 PM
Had we not have drafted Stephenson, I'd have liked to have brought in Shaun Livingston as a back-up to see what he could do.

Hell, he might be cheap enough to still bring in and tryout. He only made $240,000 last year. I think that's what Emeka Okafor makes in a game....

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Steve Blake is the best player on the UFA list. I don't know what his price would be but I have to think he'd be a good fit here.

ChristianDudley
06-28-2010, 12:44 PM
From that list, here's the ones that I would at least consider...

UFA's (Sign or Sign & Trade)

Steve Blake
Chris Duhon
Raymond Felton
Shaun Livingston
Earl Watson

RFA's (Sign or Sign & Trade)

Randy Foye
C.J. Watson

Trades (All these guys have been mentioned in trade rumors)

Jose Calderon
Darren Collison
Mike Conley
Baron Davis
Jonny Flynn
Jarrett Jack
Ty Lawson
Eric Maynor
Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Ramon Sessions
Mo Williams

CableKC
06-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Steve Blake is the best player on the UFA list. I don't know what his price would be but I have to think he'd be a good fit here.
I've always loved Blake....but he's a long term, very solid Backup PG and even good enough to be an Emergency Starting PG for the short term for a Playoff/Championship Team.....but he isn't a Long-term Starting quality PG for a Playoff/Championship Team.

BornReady
06-28-2010, 12:50 PM
I don't know much about Blake, but my perception of him has always been that he is clumsy. I could be wrong though. I'd be opposed to him just because he is already fairly old and I'd prefer to get a younger pg.

I also don't know much about this guy, but how is Javaris Crittenton? I know I was intrigued by him when he first came out of college, but I haven't heard much from him aside from the whole Arenas fiasco. Are you guys familiar with his game?

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I also don't know much about this guy, but how is Javaris Crittenton? I know I was intrigued by him when he first came out of college, but I haven't heard much from him aside from the whole Arenas fiasco. Are you guys familiar with his game?

What else do you need to hear?

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 12:55 PM
I've always loved Blake....but he's a long term, very solid Backup PG and even good enough to be an Emergency Starting PG for the short term for a Playoff/Championship Team.....but he isn't a Long-term Starting quality PG for a Playoff/Championship Team.

Not one of the players on the UFA list is long term solution as a starting PG. But you sign Blake and he's your starting PG right now in the short term until you pick up your long term starter and he slides to his more natural backup role.

Swish
06-28-2010, 12:55 PM
UFA's (Sign or Sign & Trade)

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Steve Blake
Earl Boykins
Shannon Brown
Anthony Carter
Javaris Crittenton
Travis Diener
Chris Duhon
Raymond Felton
Derek Fisher
Eddie House
Allen Iverson
Royal Ivey
Anthony Johnson
Acie Law
Shaun Livingston
Kevin Ollie
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Luke Ridnour
Nate Robinson
Jamaal Tinsley
Earl Watson
Jason Williams
Marcus Williams

Somehow I doubt this name is included on the OFFICIAL official list. :)

pacers74
06-28-2010, 01:01 PM
Blake is starting to grow on me. He is not really a long term answer, but he could start here for a couple of years while we groom a young PG.
Collison of course is the number one option.
I would take Sessions, but like it was said Kahn has something against Bird.
I don't really want Felton, because he is going to want to much money and I don't think the Bobcats can do a sign and trade Financially.
Conley would be good to have, but we might need to do a 3 way to get him. He makes about 5 mil next year and we would have to give up to many pieces to get him probably. Unless we are willing to give Rush and Hansbrough and McBob. That is just to make it work Financially.

pacers74
06-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Oh yea could we grab Bayless back from Portland.

CableKC
06-28-2010, 01:20 PM
Not one of the players on the UFA list is long term solution as a starting PG. But you sign Blake and he's your starting PG right now in the short term until you pick up your long term starter and he slides to his more natural backup role.
As a short Term option at the PG spot...I don't mind signing Blake up with the intentions that you suggest.

Taterhead
06-28-2010, 01:30 PM
I really like Shannon Brown and I know the Pacers have tried to get him before. He's not a conventional point man, but he did play some point for the Lakers and did some nice things. Not sure how that would translate to our system, but he is an incredible athlete with with great size at the position and has a bright future ahead of him.

A guy I like as a stop gap to bide some time is Duhon. Could be the Earl Watson for 2010/11. But I've heard he is likely headed back to Chicago to back-up Rose.

Steve Blake? Hasn't Portland been trying to replace him for 3 years now? They traded for Bayless, then signed Miller to a long term deal. I think he is one of those guys vastly over rated on this board. He might look nice until he's on your team and you see him on a nightly basis. He is another stop gap at best.

Anyways, what a crappy year to be looking for a PG, lol. Between the draft and this FA class we couldn't have picked a worse time to be looking for one. I am very worried we'll wind up severely overpaying for a mediocre solution in this bare market.

Blink
06-28-2010, 01:42 PM
What ever happened to Kyle Lowry? I know he's sharing time with Aaron Brooks in Houston.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 01:42 PM
Had we not have drafted Stephenson, I'd have liked to have brought in Shaun Livingston as a back-up to see what he could do.

Hell, he might be cheap enough to still bring in and tryout. He only made $240,000 last year. I think that's what Emeka Okafor makes in a game....



So you are saying Bird drafted Stephenson as a PG? I don't believe I've seen anything in print where Bird has made that statement. If there is something in print, can you furnish a link so I can read it? I'd appreciate it.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 01:45 PM
Steve Blake is the best player on the UFA list. I don't know what his price would be but I have to think he'd be a good fit here.


We seem to be on the same wave length. I've always had an interest in Blake as a player. It would make me happy to see him don on a Pacers uni.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 01:49 PM
I've always loved Blake....but he's a long term, very solid Backup PG and even good enough to be an Emergency Starting PG for the short term for a Playoff/Championship Team.....but he isn't a Long-term Starting quality PG for a Playoff/Championship Team.


Well that doesn't describe the Pacers in any way, shape, or form. He'd be exactly what the Pacers need for a couple of years until the Pacers can find the PG of the future.

Dr. Goldfoot
06-28-2010, 01:49 PM
It's my understanding we have 12 players under contract.

1. Danny Granger
2. Troy Murphy
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jeff Foster
5. Brandon Rush
6. Roy Hibbert
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Solomon Jones
9. Josh McRoberts
10. T.J. Ford
11. Tyler Hansbrough
12. A.J. Price

The number goes to 13 w/ Paul George. That leaves two spots for the second rounders & free agents. The Pacers have to at least sign one point guard (likely more). I doubt they sign an unrestricted free agent prior to trading 2 for 1 to get a point. I'll assume Lance Stephenson will make the roster since they claim to have wanted to get into the 1st round for him (I'm fully aware of James White). They also spent money on Magnus Rolle which makes you think they want to keep him as well. And now you have a full roster

So I'd spend more time searching for S&T scenarios or trade scenarios.


I like Randy Foye but have no idea what his going rate would be. The Wiz no longer need his services.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 02:04 PM
I don't know much about Blake, but my perception of him has always been that he is clumsy. I could be wrong though. I'd be opposed to him just because he is already fairly old and I'd prefer to get a younger pg.

I also don't know much about this guy, but how is Javaris Crittenton? I know I was intrigued by him when he first came out of college, but I haven't heard much from him aside from the whole Arenas fiasco. Are you guys familiar with his game?



Blake is a pass 1st type PG that gets other players involved. He can hit the 3 to keep opposing teams honest, and plays decent "D". He's just a good steady PG with a good BB IQ. Nothing fancy, just a good blue collar lunch pail PG with and excellent head on his shoulders.

Blake went from the Bucks to Denver and did quite well there that season. He became a FA, and Denver wouldn't re-sign him, and suffered at PG that next season. It wasn't until the Nuggets traded for Billups did they get a PG to replace his game.

I doubt Javaris Crittenton ever sees a NBA court again. At 6'5" he's got size, but not much game as atested by the amount of times he's been traded.

Swish
06-28-2010, 02:14 PM
It's my understanding we have 12 players under contract.

1. Danny Granger
2. Troy Murphy
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jeff Foster
5. Brandon Rush
6. Roy Hibbert
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Solomon Jones
9. Josh McRoberts
10. T.J. Ford
11. Tyler Hansbrough
12. A.J. Price

The number goes to 13 w/ Paul George. That leaves two spots for the second rounders & free agents. The Pacers have to at least sign one point guard (likely more). I doubt they sign an unrestricted free agent prior to trading 2 for 1 to get a point. I'll assume Lance Stephenson will make the roster since they claim to have wanted to get into the 1st round for him (I'm fully aware of James White). They also spent money on Magnus Rolle which makes you think they want to keep him as well. And now you have a full roster

So I'd spend more time searching for S&T scenarios or trade scenarios.


I like Randy Foye but have no idea what his going rate would be. The Wiz no longer need his services.

AJ is non-guaranteed and could be cut if need be.

wintermute
06-28-2010, 02:14 PM
there are quite a few free agents like felton, farmar, lowry, etc whose home team is not likely to afford keeping them. this would make a s&t scenario unworkable. instead, we may need to lower our payroll (either by taking a smaller salary in trade, or by working with an under the cap team) to free up money to make a free agent offer.

this is where the lack of a trade last season hurts us. if we have somehow managed to moved murphy for an expiring contract, we'd have fa money to swoop down on whichever pg gets left out in the cold in this summer's free agent frenzy. kind of like sessions last year.

Swish
06-28-2010, 02:18 PM
Also, IIRC, we are over the luxury tax as it is, so it's not like we have a ton of money to throw around at someone. Anything over the minimum is probably out of the question.

Doddage
06-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Oh yea could we grab Bayless back from Portland.
This is what I'm interested in. Wonder if they'd be interested in redoing the Rush/Bayless trade? Maybe Foster and Rush for Przybilla and Bayless. I think something could be worked out.

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 02:38 PM
Not that it will solve our PG issues, regardless, I want to see who we bring in at point through the summer league. Maybe we'll see Earl Calloway again. Built like Maynor and is a great outside shooter, he probably deserves an NBA shot...(not that he'd make the team with our current configuration)

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 02:52 PM
This is what I'm interested in. Wonder if they'd be interested in redoing the Rush/Bayless trade? Maybe Foster and Rush for Przybilla and Bayless. I think something could be worked out.


Seriously, why would Portland even be interested inthis deal? They have Roy at SG and just drafted Elliot Williams, so they don't need Rush. Not to mention Bayless can play SG too. Przybilla is better than an often injured and aging Foster. Portland has no motivation to make this trade.

DocHolliday
06-28-2010, 03:46 PM
I want Earl Boykins. Discuss.

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 04:02 PM
I want Earl Boykins. Discuss.

Me too. I want to run him at PG, Ford at SG, Price at SF, Rush at PF and Granger at C.

I will call this system....the High School!

BornReady
06-28-2010, 04:02 PM
I want Earl Boykins. Discuss.

I don't see how that solves any of our problems.

DocHolliday
06-28-2010, 04:54 PM
I don't see how that solves any of our problems.

He's a freak show. It'll sell tickets in a way that would make Bill Veeck proud. But seriously, I wouldn't mind him coming off the bench for a change of pace. He'd solve as many problems as any other middle of the road-quality PG would--like Raymond Felton or Steve Blake, meaning the Pacers would still need a legit starting PG.

odeez
06-28-2010, 05:50 PM
UFA's

1.Raymond Felton - I like Raymond, but I have never been super excited about his game. He would be an upgrade to what we have now, has experience at the position, but had some questionable play this past playoffs. He could be a long term solution.

2.Steve Blake - I always liked seeing him play for Portland. But he really doesn't excite me too much at the position. Hedoesn't seem long term solution. He is nice coming off the bench, not a long term solution, IMO.

RFA's

No body I am really interested in...

Trade PG's

1. Darren Collison - The sample of his play is small, but I watched him several time last year when he took over for Paul. And I loved the way he handled the pressure of the position and lead the Hornets. He is a playmaker and is only going to get better. I pick him #1 because of his cost and upside.

2. George Hill - I think George would be nice to trade for, his connection to the city and fans would be great. He is more of a scorer then a pass first guard, but I could see him developing his skills as a PG more. He has a nice upside. I just don't see the Spurs letting go of him without asking for too much. Long term solution.

3. Tony Parker - No need to explain why we would want Tony. His body of work speaks for it's self. I think we would have to give up too much to get him though, but it sure would be nice! Long term solution.

4. Chris Paul - Again, no need to explain why you would get Paul. We would have to give up too much to get him most likely. Long term solution indeed!

5. Monta Ellis - I put Monta on the list because it would be wild to see him play for the Pacers having watched him many times in person. He is a scoring guard more than anything. Can score at will at times, plays great defense on guards his size, gets a lot steals. I just don't see us having what GS would want. They most likely aren't taking back Murph & Dun. He is not going to be a pass first PG that is for sure.

6. Andre Miller - I would of loved to have him a few years ago. His career seems to be on the downside. Not a long term solution, he would be nice to have if we had a young PG that he could mentor a bit.

There are a few more guys that I would trade for, but don't have the time to get into. I think we will make something happen, I just hope they aim high and don't settle too much. I still think Collison is the guy, but love to see us get George Hill. I think Parker, Paul, and Monta are out of reach for us, but you never know...

DgR
06-28-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm a little worried we're aiming for a player who will only temporarily fill the PG for a couple of years when we should be looking for a permenent solution - a PG for the future. I think we have pieces to get a good talent and don't have to settle for Watsons and Ollies etc. there's no point.

Also, if there's any chance of getting Chris Paul to the Pacers- you take it and make your escape, laughing manicly. There's almost no price I'm not willing to pay for a guy like him.

PaceBalls
06-28-2010, 06:58 PM
I have always loved Steve Blake's game. He is my choice for the PG of the future. He is so underrated, I don't think he will cost too much. Cheaper than JJack I think.

docpaul
06-28-2010, 09:09 PM
It's my understanding we have 12 players under contract.

1. Danny Granger
2. Troy Murphy
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jeff Foster
5. Brandon Rush
6. Roy Hibbert
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Solomon Jones
9. Josh McRoberts
10. T.J. Ford
11. Tyler Hansbrough
12. A.J. Price

The number goes to 13 w/ Paul George. That leaves two spots for the second rounders & free agents. The Pacers have to at least sign one point guard (likely more). I doubt they sign an unrestricted free agent prior to trading 2 for 1 to get a point. I'll assume Lance Stephenson will make the roster since they claim to have wanted to get into the 1st round for him (I'm fully aware of James White). They also spent money on Magnus Rolle which makes you think they want to keep him as well. And now you have a full roster

So I'd spend more time searching for S&T scenarios or trade scenarios.


I like Randy Foye but have no idea what his going rate would be. The Wiz no longer need his services.

A couple of thoughts on this:

1) Our "starting PG" clearly isn't our starting PG, so you can practically assume that our practical starting point is 11 roster seats... Ford will be out of here, one way or the other.

2) Paul George is an automatic 12, as he gets a guaranteed contract.

3) Here's our salary structure per Shamsports:

Indiana Pacers <table align="center" cellspacing="0" width="750"><tbody><tr> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="185">Player</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2009/2010</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2010/2011</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2011/2012</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2012/2013</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2013/2014</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="80">2014/2015</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="26" width="85">Total</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185"> Troy Murphy (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=127)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$11,047,619</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$11,968,253</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$23,015,872</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Danny Granger (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=151)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$10,130,500</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$11,173,202</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$12,215,904</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$13,258,606</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$14,221,788</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$61,000,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185"> Mike Dunleavy (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=123)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$9,780,992</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$10,561,984</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$20,342,976</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185"> T.J. Ford (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=217)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$8,500,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$8,500,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$17,000,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Jeff Foster (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=149)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$6,077,500</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$6,655,000</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$12,732,500</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=159) *</td> <!--<td width="80" align="center" class="white1" height="24">$7,200,000</td> <td width="80" align="center" class="white1" height="24">$7,500,000</td>--> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$5,240,816</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$5,459,183</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$10,699,999</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Earl Watson (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=101)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,800,000</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$2,800,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Dahntay Jones (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=193)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,500,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,500,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,700,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,900,000</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$10,600,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Brandon Rush (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=849)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,934,160</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,069,040</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,956,658</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$4,089,058</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$6,959,858</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Tyler Hansbrough (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=842)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,859,160</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,998,600</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,138,040</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$3,055,259</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$4,225,423</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$9,039,059</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Solomon Jones (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=744)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,620,000</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,500,000</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$3,120,000</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Roy Hibbert (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=836)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,575,360</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,685,280</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$2,588,590</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$3,655,089</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$5,849,230</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Travis Diener (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=289) *</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,516,177</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$1,516,177</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185"> Josh McRoberts (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=719)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$825,497</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$885,120</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$1,710,617</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="185">Luther Head (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=135)</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$825,497</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="grey1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$825,497</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="185">A.J. Price (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1139)</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$457,588</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$762,195</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$884,293</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">$1,105,366</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="80">N/A</td> <td class="white1" align="center" height="24" width="85">$2,104,076</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="185">Total salaries</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $66,690,866</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $65,717,857</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $23,483,485</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $19,213,865</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $14,221,788</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $0</td> <td rowspan="2" class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="85"> $189,315,861</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="185">Total w/o options</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $66,690,866</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $65,717,857</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $15,800,197</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $13,258,606</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $14,221,788</td> <td class="blue4" align="center" height="40" width="80"> $0
</td></tr></tbody></table>

I think it's useful to look at this for a few reasons... I think if we are to believe that they offered $3 million to OKC to trade up for Rolle, I think it makes Solomon Jones *much* more expendable than Rolle. So he's 13, if so.

My guess is that Bird is high on Stephenson (from what we've read) and will give him a partially guaranteed 700-800k contract with a couple years of team options ala AJ Price. So he's likely 14, unless he really screws up this summer.

That gets us to this "roster", at a minimum:

1. Danny Granger
2. Troy Murphy
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jeff Foster
5. Brandon Rush
6. Roy Hibbert
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Josh McRoberts
9. Tyler Hansbrough
10. A.J. Price
11: Solomon Jones
12: Paul George
13: Magnum Rolle
14: Lance Stephenson

If you cut or trade Solomon Jones, I think you could get down to 13, which allows for a modicum of flexibility.

So there's room to potentially sign a summer leaguer like Marcus Williams or Thomas Heurtel if either radically surprises everyone.

Otherwise, we can expect a 1 for 1 or a 2 for 2 trade.

vnzla81
06-28-2010, 09:25 PM
Here is the guy we need to :phone:



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McKeyFan
06-28-2010, 09:34 PM
Why didn't Hinrich make the list?

vnzla81
06-28-2010, 09:35 PM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_blake/index.html

He is not as old as people think

Steve Blake

2009-10 Statistics
PPG 7.3 RPG 2.30 APG 4.8 EFF + 9.65

Born: Feb 26, 1980
Height: 6-3 / 1.91
Weight: 172 lbs. / 78.0 kg.
College: Maryland
Years Pro: 6

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 10:19 PM
I think it's useful to look at this for a few reasons... I think if we are to believe that they offered $3 million to OKC to trade up for Rolle, I think it makes Solomon Jones *much* more expendable than Rolle. So he's 13, if so.



They didn't offer $3 million to move up to take Rolle late in the 2nd. They offered $3 million to move up late into the first for Stephenson. I'd be shocked if they offered 300k for the Rolle deal.

MillerTime
06-28-2010, 10:49 PM
Out of all the PGs, I would love to get Hinrich. He plays amazing defence and is a great floor leader. I dont see him being at Washington for too long. They have a log-jam at PG with Wall, Arenas, Hinrich and (though hes a combo) Foye.

Hinrich doesnt have a great contract, but I'd much rather pay him $8.5 million (his contract is one of the rare ones that declines as the years go along) this year than pay Ford $8.5 to sit on the bench.

If we obtained Hinrich's services he would be by far our best PG annd would definitely take the starting role. I would actually like Hinrich at PG for the long term. I would be totally happy if we re-signed him after this contract was up. He only has 2 more seasons left on his contract

imawhat
06-29-2010, 12:49 AM
Keyon Dooling is available.

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 01:22 AM
Stats are imperfect. We all know that.

Here are a couple called 'Passing Rating' and 'Hands Rating' that they use at 82games.com.

Passing Rating is an attempt "to reward passes leading to successful shots from close range at a higher rate than assisted outside shots, while including the rate of passing turnovers" (82games.com). This is basically a measure of how many dunks and layups these guys are creating for their teammates, so it's going to be slanted in favor of certain offenses. A guy like Paul who plays in transition a lot and has a really nice pick and roll game is going to have a higher rating than a drive and kick guy who's team doesn't run much like Parker. Click here for more info: http://www.82games.com/chempass.htm

Hands Rating is a turnover rating that takes bad passes, offensive fouls, and ball-handling turnovers into account. This is basically a rating of how good they are at protecting the ball.

I'm not going to list all the guys on the list, but I'll do some of the more interesting ones. Higher numbers are better in both categories.


Player Passing 'Hands'

Chris Paul 17.9 33.9
Darren Collison 10.7 20.7
Tony Parker 9.3 19.4
George Hill 4.1 15.7
Raymond Felton 10.2 25.1
D.J. Augustin 7.1 21.6
Kirk Hinrich 8.0 19.4
Mo Williams 10.7 23.4
Delonte West 8.1 18.1
Tywon Lawson 10.3 20.6
Monta Ellis 8.0 17.1
Kyle Lowry 11.7 22.3
Jordan Farmar 4.8 15.2
Shannon Brown 3.3 12.8
Mike Conley 9.7 21.7
Luke Ridnour 9.6 23.0
Ramon Sessions 7.6 17.1
Jonny Flynn 7.4 15.6
Chris Duhon 10.3 22.9
Eric Maynor 12.5 25.8
Louis Williams 9.9 23.4
Andre Miller 11.8 23.8
Jose Calderon 14.2 34.9
Jarrett Jack 11.2 22.0
Randy Foye 7.4 18.9
Shaun Livingston 9.8 20.5
Steve Blake 10.1 22.8

PacersPride
06-29-2010, 03:13 AM
I've always loved Blake....but he's a long term, very solid Backup PG and even good enough to be an Emergency Starting PG for the short term for a Playoff/Championship Team.....but he isn't a Long-term Starting quality PG for a Playoff/Championship Team.

thats kinda all we really need. if next years draft class is loaded w/ pg's like ive heard, im cool with blake running the point for a year. and im definitely okay with him as our backup for the next 3 competing with price.

PacersPride
06-29-2010, 03:28 AM
Out of all the PGs, I would love to get Hinrich. He plays amazing defence and is a great floor leader. I dont see him being at Washington for too long. They have a log-jam at PG with Wall, Arenas, Hinrich and (though hes a combo) Foye.

Hinrich doesnt have a great contract, but I'd much rather pay him $8.5 million (his contract is one of the rare ones that declines as the years go along) this year than pay Ford $8.5 to sit on the bench.

If we obtained Hinrich's services he would be by far our best PG annd would definitely take the starting role. I would actually like Hinrich at PG for the long term. I would be totally happy if we re-signed him after this contract was up. He only has 2 more seasons left on his contract

and it is reasonable to believe washington would do this. great idea.

Ford for Hinrich

issue resolved and we draft a pg next summer. washington is not moving arenas anytime soon, but they may value hinrich, but im guessing cap space would intrigue them.

i like this idea perhaps as much as the NO's deal.

oz_pacer
06-29-2010, 03:37 AM
A guy who could really be a bargain would be Patrick Mills a lot of you have probably never heard of him but he is a really good quality point guard a little undersized really good skills, good passer, can get to the rim quite easily for someone his size, super quick decent outside shooter without being great.
I'm from Australia he played really good in the olympics he was Australia's best player against the USA, He had a great career at St Marys(CA) but his stock dropped however because in his last year he broke is hand.

he could be a really good option he was stuck behind Beyless and Blake at portland last year so no one has really seen what he can do in the NBA yet.

other pg's I'm interested in are CJ Watson, George Hill, Darren Collison and Raymond Felton.

BornReady
06-29-2010, 03:52 AM
A guy who could really be a bargain would be Patrick Mills a lot of you have probably never heard of him but he is a really good quality point guard a little undersized really good skills, good passer, can get to the rim quite easily for someone his size, super quick decent outside shooter without being great.
I'm from Australia he played really good in the olympics he was Australia's best player against the USA, He had a great career at St Marys(CA) but his stock dropped however because in his last year he broke is hand.

he could be a really good option he was stuck behind Beyless and Blake at portland last year so no one has really seen what he can do in the NBA yet.

other pg's I'm interested in are CJ Watson, George Hill, Darren Collison and Raymond Felton.

I have heard of him- I actually wanted him over AJ Price last year. Isn't he already on a team's actual roster, though? Or was he waived?

oz_pacer
06-29-2010, 04:05 AM
I have heard of him- I actually wanted him over AJ Price last year. Isn't he already on a team's actual roster, though? Or was he waived?

yea i was hopeing we picked him with our second rounder last year too. well he is a restricted FA i think but i was watching Australia vs Argentina friendly the other night and he was interviewed and he said he is hopeful the blazers would pick up his option so blazers must have a team option for this season.

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 08:17 AM
and it is reasonable to believe washington would do this. great idea.

Ford for Hinrich

issue resolved and we draft a pg next summer. washington is not moving arenas anytime soon, but they may value hinrich, but im guessing cap space would intrigue them.

i like this idea perhaps as much as the NO's deal.

Murphy for Hinrich might make more sense for both teams. As of right now Washington has Javale McGee, Aundray Blatche, Hamady N'Diaye, and Trevor Booker. Blatche is the oldest at 24, and he's far from what you'd call a steady veteran presence.

Murphy makes about $3 million less than Hinrich, and he'll be easier to move at the deadline if Washington wants to try and use him to grab some talent.

and I'm the guy who didn't want this to turn into a trade proposal thread.

count55
06-29-2010, 08:20 AM
Murphy for Hinrich might make more sense for both teams. As of right now Washington has Javale McGee, Aundray Blatche, Hamady N'Diaye, and Trevor Booker. Blatche is the oldest at 24, and he's far from what you'd call a steady veteran presence.

Murphy makes about $3 million less than Hinrich, and he'll be easier to move at the deadline if Washington wants to try and use him to grab some talent.

and I'm the guy who didn't want this to turn into a trade proposal thread.

Murphy makes about $3 million more than Hinrich.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2010, 09:37 AM
and it is reasonable to believe washington would do this. great idea.

Ford for Hinrich

issue resolved and we draft a pg next summer. washington is not moving arenas anytime soon, but they may value hinrich, but im guessing cap space would intrigue them.

i like this idea perhaps as much as the NO's deal.


Washington isn't picking up Foye's qualifying offer thus making him a UFA, so Hinrich won't be traded.

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 01:30 PM
I've finished posting the numbers for most of the interesting players on the list. You can see the post here: http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=1022162&postcount=50

What do we learn? Mostly things we already know.

Jose Calderon, offensively, seems way ahead of the "Not Chris Paul" pack.

The most surprising thing to me was how well Eric Maynor fared. He was 3rd in both categories behind Paul and Calderon.

Kyle Lowry looks pretty nice here.

Raymond Felton looks solid. His 'Hands' rating is higher than I expected. I wonder how much of this is due to the slow pace and tight reins of Larry Brown.

Trophy
06-29-2010, 01:39 PM
I'm with vnzla81 in bringing in Steve Blake.

Although he's not the super young PG long term, he's only 30 and has a good 5 years left in him and hopefully doesn't slow down.

When Portland brought in Andre Miller while they had Steve Blake, I thought that was actually a very good PG rotation.

I would trade Ford for Andre Miller straight up as well as sign Blake to a decent 3 year contract.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2010, 02:27 PM
The most surprising thing to me was how well Eric Maynor fared. He was 3rd in both categories behind Paul and Calderon.


As I was too, even though he was the PG I wanted with a 2nd 1st pick. I wish this past draft Bird could have worked out a deal to have acquired him. I'd like to give him a shot at PG.

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 05:44 PM
As I was too, even though he was the PG I wanted with a 2nd 1st pick. I wish this past draft Bird could have worked out a deal to have acquired him. I'd like to give him a shot at PG.

Sadly, I doubt he was ever on the table. I think the deal we heard about was the deal Larry was pushing for while OKC was offering #21, #26, and taking Ford off of our hands.

IAmHoosier
06-29-2010, 05:59 PM
I'd rather we stick with the players we have now so that we can suck another year and enter the Josh Selby sweepstakes.

BornReady
06-29-2010, 06:43 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16623

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 07:56 PM
If we're going to get a FA PG, I see it as a 2 step process, unless we're willing to pay the luxury tax, which I doubt.

First, we need to clear cap space by trading one of our expiring contracts to a team with cap space. It needs to be a trade that will save us $3-4 million.

Second, we sign a decent player. I think we'd be a fairly attractive destination for guys who are looking to prove they can start like Farmar and Lowry. They could sign a short-term deal and be guaranteed a starting job in a system that would allow them to put up some pretty big numbers.

CableKC
06-29-2010, 08:08 PM
I've finished posting the numbers for most of the interesting players on the list. You can see the post here: http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=1022162&postcount=50

What do we learn? Mostly things we already know.

Jose Calderon, offensively, seems way ahead of the "Not Chris Paul" pack.

The most surprising thing to me was how well Eric Maynor fared. He was 3rd in both categories behind Paul and Calderon.

Kyle Lowry looks pretty nice here.

Raymond Felton looks solid. His 'Hands' rating is higher than I expected. I wonder how much of this is due to the slow pace and tight reins of Larry Brown.
Could you help me with the #s?

Is it good to have a high or low # for "Passing" and "Hand"?

OakMoses
06-29-2010, 08:24 PM
Could you help me with the #s?

Is it good to have a high or low # for "Passing" and "Hand"?

High is better for both numbers.

For comparison sake, here are the numbers for some starting PG's:

Steve Nash - Passing = 20.9; Hands = 40.3
Deron Williams - Passing = 18.7; Hands = 33.7
Rajon Rondo - Passing = 16.1; Hands = 31.1
Chauncey Billups - Passing = 9.5; Hands = 22.6
Jameer Nelson - Passing = 12.7; Hands = 25.6

Hopefully that makes it a bit clearer.

Think of passing as a measure of how many really good shots you're creating for your teammates.

Think of hands as how good you are at not turning the ball over.

jeffg-body
06-30-2010, 12:16 AM
Myself I like Blake as an option out there. He is a smart player who doesn't make a lot of mistakes and can hit shots when needed. I would like to see him man the ship for a few years and we get our long term PG via draft.

aceace
06-30-2010, 02:45 AM
Just glancing at that list, the first name....

Anyone remember the solid play Rafer was giving the Rockets a couple years back? He doesn't shoot a good percentage but he's at least decent from three point range.

He's a decent defender and very good at setting up his teammates.Rafer would be Watson part 2

BornReady
06-30-2010, 04:25 AM
man good pgs are so hard to come by
id be happy doing a s&t for felton

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 08:44 AM
I would take a hard look at Farmar. I think he's a nice fit in this system as he isn't a ball dominant point guard. He would be easy to get if we really wanted him.

Not suggesting that he is the answer as the long term starting point. But I think maybe he has the potential to be the longterm starting point guard. Very difficult to determine that with him playing in the Lakers system with Kobe.

OakMoses
06-30-2010, 08:47 AM
I would take a hard look at Farmar. I think he's a nice fit in this system as he isn't a ball dominant point guard. He would be easy to get if we really wanted him.

Not suggesting that he is the answer as the long term starting point. But I think maybe he has the potential to be the longterm starting point guard. Very difficult to determine that with him playing in the Lakers system with Kobe.

I find him intriguing as well. The fact that he desperately wants to start probably means that he'd be willing to sign a fairly cheap short term deal with us as there are not many starting PG gigs available this summer.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 08:52 AM
I think Farmer is a much better player to "take a chance on" then Blake. We know what Blake can do and he isn't going to be able to help us much and he has no chance of being the answer at the point. Lets take a chance on someone we can get cheaply who maybe could be the answer at the point. That is why I would look at acquiring Farmer.

Why acquire Blake we know he's not the answer.

Brad8888
06-30-2010, 09:10 AM
I would love nothing more than to end up with a point guard who is recognized for his passing ability and defense from being on a successful team. That way, if this pg comes here he can either make the O'B system work for the first time since O'B has come here, or, it can finally be shown that the O'B system has been the vast majority of the problem with both our offense and defense on the perimeter since he has been here, especially if our other players stay healthy for once.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 10:24 AM
I would take a hard look at Farmar. I think he's a nice fit in this system as he isn't a ball dominant point guard. He would be easy to get if we really wanted him.

Not suggesting that he is the answer as the long term starting point. But I think maybe he has the potential to be the longterm starting point guard. Very difficult to determine that with him playing in the Lakers system with Kobe.


I don't know that much about Farmar's abilities, so in this case I'll rely on you about his ability. Farmar has a qualifying offer of 2.8 mil with the Lakers which makes him a RFA. How do you propose the Pacers get him when their current 011 salary is 65.5 mil, and they haven't signed any draft picks that will add more salary? Are you suggesting the Pacers go over the LT to get him?

Hicks
06-30-2010, 10:38 AM
Until I see something to make me believe something better is likely, I'm going to hope for Raymond Felton (not that he's at the top of my "most wanted PG" list) because that sounds more realistic to me than overpaying for a sophomore player or getting someone like Parker or Paul.

From what I understand, Felton has everything you want in a PG with regards to intangibles, and while he can do a little bit of a lot of things on the floor, he doesn't really excel at any of them, which is why he's not a top-level PG.

But if my understanding is close to the truth on this guy, even someone like him could be a major improvement for us. I'd be very cool with acquiring him as long as I didn't think we seriously overpaid.

Anthem
06-30-2010, 10:59 AM
But if my understanding is close to the truth on this guy, even someone like him could be a major improvement for us. I'd be very cool with acquiring him as long as I didn't think we seriously overpaid.
What would be a fair price?

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't know that much about Farmar's abilities, so in this case I'll rely on you about his ability. Farmar has a qualifying offer of 2.8 mil with the Lakers which makes him a RFA. How do you propose the Pacers get him when their current 011 salary is 65.5 mil, and they haven't signed any draft picks that will add more salary? Are you suggesting the Pacers go over the LT to get him?

Couple of points;

I have thought for a couple of seasons that Farmar could be pretty good if put into a traditional point.

But reading this article today in the LA Times got me to thinking about Farmar.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-20100630,0,2902883.story

Hicks
06-30-2010, 11:29 AM
What would be a fair price?

To me, to the Pacers, or to the Bobcats?

To me, TJ for him straight up (preferably with Felton's contract starting at a lower number than what TJ makes next year) would be fair.

The Pacers may or may not agree with me.

The Bobcats might not even be open to a deal now that I think about it because I think their payroll is such that they don't want to add any salary and will let Felton walk away.

But if that's not the case, if they were interested in TJ in February, I don't see how that could change terribly since, so maybe they'd think that was fair too, but they might want to do a Rush for Henderson swap, too.

DocHolliday
06-30-2010, 11:30 AM
What would be a fair price?

A Jarrett Jack-sized offer would be a good ceiling.

CableKC
06-30-2010, 11:39 AM
Until I see something to make me believe something better is likely, I'm going to hope for Raymond Felton (not that he's at the top of my "most wanted PG" list) because that sounds more realistic to me than overpaying for a sophomore player or getting someone like Parker or Paul.

From what I understand, Felton has everything you want in a PG with regards to intangibles, and while he can do a little bit of a lot of things on the floor, he doesn't really excel at any of them, which is why he's not a top-level PG.

But if my understanding is close to the truth on this guy, even someone like him could be a major improvement for us. I'd be very cool with acquiring him as long as I didn't think we seriously overpaid.
Totally agree here. I couldn't have said it any better. If we could get him for $8 mil a year for 4 years...I'd be cool with that. I'd love to get him for cheaper...but he turned down a 6 year / $40 mil contract extension from the Bobcats last season.

Unfortunately, I think that he'll end up signing with the Heat or Knicks for way more then we'd be willing to pay. In the end, I'm going to guess that we're going to end up with another 1-year rental at the PG spot and continue to roll the dice in the Lottery and 2011 FA Market for a PG.

Gamble1
06-30-2010, 12:01 PM
Totally agree here. I couldn't have said it any better. If we could get him for $8 mil a year for 4 years...I'd be cool with that. I'd love to get him for cheaper...but he turned down a 6 year / $40 mil contract extension from the Bobcats last season.

Unfortunately, I think that he'll end up signing with the Heat or Knicks for way more then we'd be willing to pay. In the end, I'm going to guess that we're going to end up with another 1-year rental at the PG spot and continue to roll the dice in the Lottery and 2011 FA Market for a PG.
Honestly I would be happy with either Felton or Maynor. ITs not to say that they are better than the rest but probably more likely of a scenario.

Of course we have to have money to sign Felton and by the looks of it we don't have it. We would probably have to attach an expiring to him with a third team involved. I just don't see that happening.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 12:05 PM
http://twitter.com/LeBatardShow

One report Chris Bosh will be traded to Miami Heat for Michael Beasley, Mario Chalmers, and Joel Anthony

If true, Toronto now will likely want to shed a PG.
(TJ/SoJo for Jack/Banks?) - this fills our PG depth & gives Tor a big expiring.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 12:30 PM
My understanding is MJ said he wasn't going to go over the LT. If they sign both Tyrus Thomas and Felton, it would put them over the LT, so the Bobcats are going to re-sign Thomas. Even in a S&T with the Pacers for Felton it would put them over the LT with the salary they have to take back from the Pacers. The only way I see the Pacers getting Felton is signing him as FA which would put the Pacers over the LT. I don't see that happening.

What I could see Charlotte doing is letting Felton walk and revisit the Pacers for a trade.

Bobcats

Augustin... 2.5 mil
Nzar......... 6.9 mil


Pacers

Ford..... 8.5 mil


That gives Charlotte a 8.5 mil expiring and a PG that Brown likes for 1 year.

The Pacers get a young PG at on a rookie contract and a b/u C with a 6.9 mil expiring. They shed Ford.

If Charlotte wants more throw in a future 2nd round pick, Magnum Rolle, Lorbek/Stanko, or any combination of those.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 12:45 PM
My understanding is MJ said he wasn't going to go over the LT. If they sign both Tyrus Thomas and Felton, it would put them over the LT, so the Bobcats are going to re-sign Thomas. Even in a S&T with the Pacers for Felton it would put them over the LT with the salary they have to take back from the Pacers. The only way I see the Pacers getting Felton is signing him as FA which would put the Pacers over the LT. I don't see that happening.

This is where a team under the cap, or someone who strikes out in FA might be willing to assist & absorb a contract & send the Bob's little in return. This gets them a short-term "fix" while we get our target (Felton) & the Bob's get an inexpensive asset
Ex:
Bob's resign Felton, trade to IN
IN sends Murph (or any other expiring) to Team 3 (NJ/Chi/NY?)
Team 3 sends small contract w/ some value (Lee/Gibson/Chandler?) to the Bob's.
If I'm correct in my thinking, this can happen because Team 3 is under the cap & can take on salery w/o matching.

docpaul
06-30-2010, 12:49 PM
Stats are imperfect. We all know that.

Here are a couple called 'Passing Rating' and 'Hands Rating' that they use at 82games.com.

Passing Rating is an attempt "to reward passes leading to successful shots from close range at a higher rate than assisted outside shots, while including the rate of passing turnovers" (82games.com). This is basically a measure of how many dunks and layups these guys are creating for their teammates, so it's going to be slanted in favor of certain offenses. A guy like Paul who plays in transition a lot and has a really nice pick and roll game is going to have a higher rating than a drive and kick guy who's team doesn't run much like Parker. Click here for more info: http://www.82games.com/chempass.htm

Hands Rating is a turnover rating that takes bad passes, offensive fouls, and ball-handling turnovers into account. This is basically a rating of how good they are at protecting the ball.

I'm not going to list all the guys on the list, but I'll do some of the more interesting ones. Higher numbers are better in both categories.


Player Passing 'Hands'

Chris Paul 17.9 33.9
Darren Collison 10.7 20.7
Tony Parker 9.3 19.4
George Hill 4.1 15.7
Raymond Felton 10.2 25.1
D.J. Augustin 7.1 21.6
Kirk Hinrich 8.0 19.4
Mo Williams 10.7 23.4
Delonte West 8.1 18.1
Tywon Lawson 10.3 20.6
Monta Ellis 8.0 17.1
Kyle Lowry 11.7 22.3
Jordan Farmar 4.8 15.2
Shannon Brown 3.3 12.8
Mike Conley 9.7 21.7
Luke Ridnour 9.6 23.0
Ramon Sessions 7.6 17.1
Jonny Flynn 7.4 15.6
Chris Duhon 10.3 22.9
Eric Maynor 12.5 25.8
Louis Williams 9.9 23.4
Andre Miller 11.8 23.8
Jose Calderon 14.2 34.9
Jarrett Jack 11.2 22.0
Randy Foye 7.4 18.9
Shaun Livingston 9.8 20.5
Steve Blake 10.1 22.8

Awesome... thanks.

Out of curiosity, could you tell us what the Passing and Hands ratings are for TJ Ford and AJ Price, please?

count55
06-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Awesome... thanks.

Out of curiosity, could you tell us what the Passing and Hands ratings are for TJ Ford and AJ Price, please?

Price - 4.5 Passing, 15.6 Hands
Ford - 7.6 Passing , 18.2 Hands
Watson - 8.8 Passing, 17.3 Hands

Anthem
06-30-2010, 01:48 PM
A Jarrett Jack-sized offer would be a good ceiling.
Yeah, that's what I'd be comfortable with, as well. I imagine he'll be looking for more cash, though.

johndozark
06-30-2010, 09:49 PM
I am sure that there ought to be some on my list that aren't there, but of the young, underutilized PG's I have been following:

Young guards who have good assists stats: Maynor, Collison, Sessions, Felton
Young guards with good plus/minus on defense: Sessions, Maynor, Lawson

Young guards who can score well: Collison, Sessions, Lawson
Young guards with good offensive plus/minus: Lawson, Conley, Felton.

Of these, Maynor and Felton have the best Passing and Hands scores, while Sessions is lowest.

I like the idea of Maynor as top target for starting PG if we can get him.

Then find a back-up PG who can come in and score with more than one kind of shot, but with high percentage three pointers definitely being one of his kinds of shots. Maybe someone on the Rookie roster? Some of you are excited about Marcus E. Williams.

pwee31
06-30-2010, 10:04 PM
My understanding is MJ said he wasn't going to go over the LT. If they sign both Tyrus Thomas and Felton, it would put them over the LT, so the Bobcats are going to re-sign Thomas. Even in a S&T with the Pacers for Felton it would put them over the LT with the salary they have to take back from the Pacers. The only way I see the Pacers getting Felton is signing him as FA which would put the Pacers over the LT. I don't see that happening.

What I could see Charlotte doing is letting Felton walk and revisit the Pacers for a trade.

Bobcats

Augustin... 2.5 mil
Nzar......... 6.9 mil


Pacers

Ford..... 8.5 mil


That gives Charlotte a 8.5 mil expiring and a PG that Brown likes for 1 year.

The Pacers get a young PG at on a rookie contract and a b/u C with a 6.9 mil expiring. They shed Ford.

If Charlotte wants more throw in a future 2nd round pick, Magnum Rolle, Lorbek/Stanko, or any combination of those.

This actually makes a lot of sense. The Pacers could also bring in another PG with another trade, or using part or all of the MLE to compete with Augustin for the starting spot.

I personally don't see Murphy being traded anywhere unless another PF is in the deal or coming in another deal. They will NOT go into the season with just our current big man roster minus Murphy.

johndozark
07-01-2010, 06:55 AM
I daydreamed wildly as I awakened. Why could we not get both Maynor and either Collison or Lawson with our expirings and a few expendables? Oh, is it because we do not live in a fairy tale where we get three unlimited wishes?

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 11:37 AM
Farmar moved from RFA list to UFA list.

Here's a few rumors. I know they're posted in other threads, but I like the one thread idea.

http://twitter.com/Wells222


LA Times reports Lakers do not make a qualifying offer to PG Jordan Farmar. Expect the Pacers to pursue him.

Pacers have also reached out to PG Kyle Lowry, who is a restricted free agent.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aije5AsvnhNeyZEso0XYzL68vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010


Several teams show interest in Felton

Charlotte Bobcats free-agent point guard Raymond Felton received calls from New York, Miami, Indiana, New Jersey, Dallas and Memphis at the beginning of free agency, a source said. Felton is viewed as the best point guard available in free agency. While the Los Angeles Lakers are looking for a point guard, Felton is expected to command more than the midlevel exception and is likely out the Lakers’ range.

I wonder if we couldn't get Lowry by horning in on the Bosh S&T...

BPump33
07-01-2010, 01:35 PM
From MG:

Lance see's himself as a point guard: "I can handle the ball plus I can make smart decisions...I think I can b a gr8 point guard here."

http://twitter.com/mg_indy

vnzla81
07-01-2010, 01:37 PM
From MG:

Lance see's himself as a point guard: "I can handle the ball plus I can make smart decisions...I think I can b a gr8 point guard here."

http://twitter.com/mg_indy

I keep telling you guys, the pacers are going to make this guy the PG

Sookie
07-01-2010, 02:05 PM
I keep telling you guys, the pacers are going to make this guy the PG

he's gonna have to develope his game a whole lot if he wants to play the PG.

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 02:09 PM
I keep telling you guys, the pacers are going to make this guy the PG

We'll see what happens in summer league.

It does make Bird wanting to wait until after summer league to move forward with any potential deals a bit more interesting.

My main worry is defensively. Nearly everything I've read on Stephenson says lists lateral quickness as a weakness. If he doesn't have good lateral quickness at SG, I'm not sure I want him guarding PG's.

sheppie33
07-01-2010, 02:10 PM
Farmar moved from RFA list to UFA list.

Here's a few rumors. I know they're posted in other threads, but I like the one thread idea.

http://twitter.com/Wells222



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aije5AsvnhNeyZEso0XYzL68vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010



I wonder if we couldn't get Lowry by horning in on the Bosh S&T...

sorry i posted these in the other thread. Should have posted here. I apologize.

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 02:11 PM
Oh, I forgot to post this with the rumors earlier. The contract length is the interesting part.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgKIc9AGXT8W.tli3Kr4WFO8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070110


Pacers show interest in Farmar

The Indiana Pacers are targeting former Lakers point guard Jordan Farmar(notes) for a one-year contract. The Portland Trail Blazers and Knicks have shown interest, too.

– Adrian Wojnarowski, 3:15 a.m. ET, July 1

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 02:12 PM
sorry i posted these in the other thread. Should have posted here. I apologize.

No worries. There's no rules about such things. I just like the idea of keeping all related issues in one giant thread like we do with the Draft Recruiting Threads.

Slick Pinkham
07-01-2010, 02:13 PM
Then find a back-up PG who can come in and score with more than one kind of shot, but with high percentage three pointers definitely being one of his kinds of shots. Maybe someone on the Rookie roster? Some of you are excited about Marcus E. Williams.

Marcus E. Williams, as it was explained elsewhere, is not a PG but is a 6'7" swingman who played his college ball at Arizona. He is different than the Marcus D. Williams who played PG at UConn and who many wanted us to draft a few years ago

Marcus E: http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Marcus_Eliot_Williams
Marcus D: http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Marcus_Darrell_Williams

Gamble1
07-01-2010, 02:20 PM
Oh, I forgot to post this with the rumors earlier. The contract length is the interesting part.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgKIc9AGXT8W.tli3Kr4WFO8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070110
Won't he be a backup for both of those teams?

count55
07-01-2010, 02:20 PM
No worries. There's no rules about such things. I just like the idea of keeping all related issues in one giant thread like we do with the Draft Recruiting Threads.


And I will kill you in your sleep later.

Always read the fine print.

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 02:37 PM
I think a 1 year contract would be something Farmar would want also, if he really has a nice season then he can cash in. Lockout and new CBA not withstanding

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 02:42 PM
I think a 1 year contract would be something Farmar would want also, if he really has a nice season then he can cash in. Lockout and new CBA not withstanding

It's a bit of a win-win. If he has a really nice season, we have a bunch of money to throw his way also.

He'd start in New York. Supposedly he really wants to start, so a one-year deal with an assurance that all you have to do is beat out a 2nd year late second round draft pick who's coming of his 2nd knee surgery (at least) might get the job done.

New York could be the one real thorn in our side PG-wise if we're going the FA route.

Skaut_Ech
07-01-2010, 04:51 PM
Shocking!! :eek: So now we have an idea of what it might take to get Paul......and I never thought that would be possible. If I'm Paul, I get out of NO fast as I can. The organization doesn't seem, to me, conducive to bringing home a title.

Now someone (maybe me, later) break down when these contracts expire and costs of the traded guys and see if we could have come up with a comparable offer.



http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2010/07/ford_trail_blazers_were_close.html

ESPN.com's Chad Ford (http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dimelive-100701/daily-dime-live) is talking free agency today but took a moment to describe the Trail Blazers' big deal that nearly was last week:
The Blazers got close to a deal with the Hornets last week that would've sent Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Nicolas Batum, Jerryd Bayless and the 22nd pick to NO for Paul before Jeff Bower pulled out of the deal saying that their owner wasn't ready to trade Paul. The trade they made on draft night got them out of the luxury tax, so that's no longer the issue. The issue is whether Paul is no unhappy enough to force a trade. Personally I think the Hornets can do better than that for Paul, but it's a viable deal.
This of course was the deal The Oregonian's Jason Quick alluded to leading up to the NBA draft. Word is the deal was close to happening but died the weekend before the draft when New Orleans got cold feet. Chris Paul was said to have been one of former GM Kevin Pritchard (http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/kevin%20pritchard/index.html)'s favorite players in the league.

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 05:03 PM
That's really not that much. It just depends on how much you like Bayless and Batum. I think Batum has immensely more value than Bayless at this point.

johndozark
07-01-2010, 05:23 PM
As for Marcus E. and Marcus D., I raised the distinction on another thread, and four people set me straight that Marcus E., mostly a SG/SF, has been working on his PG skills with the Austin Toros. Even from the other positions, he has been getting some nice assists numbers in some games.

Kraut N Beer
07-01-2010, 08:20 PM
It looks like Felton may be on his way to New York. That makes some sense with all of the money they have to throw around, and they need a PG as much as the Pacers do or maybe even more.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/22922682?tag=pageContainer;comBlogEntryListMiniCnt



Point guard Raymond Felton has been contacted by seven teams, including the three with the most cap money who also happen to be the three he's interested in: the Knicks, Heat and Nets, CBSSports.com has learned.

Felton expects to have a decision in 2-3 days, with the understanding that the teams pursuing him have to first resolve their pursuit of top-tier free agents like James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. Felton, who averaged 12.1 points and 5.6 assists for the Bobcats last season, probably won't return to Charlotte because re-signing him would push the Bobcats over the luxury tax.

The Knicks' pursuit of Felton is a strong indication of a backup plan the team is ready to carry out if it doesn't land James. Sources say team president Donnie Walsh and coach Mike D'Antoni would then try to get a quick commitment from Felton and use a legit point guard as an enticement to one of the other free agents -- Bosh or Amar'e Stoudemire. Then, the Knicks could try to add one more piece -- such as small forward Mike Miller -- before going over the cap to retain Lee, assuming they didn't have to renounce his rights to do it. If they did, the Knicks would probably have to forego one of the signings in order to fit Lee into their $34.1 million of salary-cap space.

Blink
07-01-2010, 09:26 PM
Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Nicolas Batum, Jerryd Bayless and the 22nd pick to NO for Paul

:spitout:

OakMoses
07-03-2010, 08:28 AM
Dominoes falling, I guess.

Blake and Rodriguez removed from list.

Justin Tyme
07-03-2010, 10:55 AM
I would have preferred to see Blake in a Pacers' uni, but he went to a contender where he definately has an opportunity to get a ring. The Lakers knew his qualities as a PG. I was surprised they got him at 4 mil. Congrats to Steve Blake.

Ozwalt72
07-03-2010, 11:20 AM
The Lakers knew his qualities as a PG. I was surprised they got him at 4 mil. Congrats to Steve Blake.

Is the power of the defending champion. Money talks, but it echoes a bit differently when that championship trophy is in the room.

OakMoses
07-03-2010, 11:21 AM
I would have preferred to see Blake in a Pacers' uni, but he went to a contender where he definately has an opportunity to get a ring. The Lakers knew his qualities as a PG. I was surprised they got him at 4 mil. Congrats to Steve Blake.

It's interesting to compare Blake's deal to the other's that have been signed. I think he's the equal of every player who's been signed so far except Rudy Gay, but he signed a much cheaper contract.

pwee31
07-03-2010, 11:37 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmtQB0h.iU.BVtDOaTe3SOy8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070310


Before the Lakers secured a commitment from Blake, general manager Mitch Kupchak had Bucks point guard Luke Ridnour willing to take a four-year, $12 million offer, a league source says. The Lakers then gave Blake a deadline of Friday afternoon to accept their four-year, $16 million offer.

So they offered Blake 4 million, and Ridnour was on the back burner ready to take 3 million? Is this just a championship contender discount, or the going rate for these guys?

Ozwalt72
07-03-2010, 11:39 AM
So they offered Blake 4 million, and Ridnour was on the back burner ready to take 3 million? Is this just a championship contender discount, or the going rate for these guys?

Well, I could see Blake being worth maybe the MLE for 4 years. Ridnour at 3 per year seems about right.

pacers74
07-03-2010, 11:55 AM
The knicks are going after Parker, Felton, or Ridnour. I guess they are giving up on Lebron and going for plan B. They might be loaded up after this is all over.


http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Parker_Tony_san.jpg The Knicks are expected to try and pry Tony Parker away from the Spurs in order to pair him with Amar'e Stoudemire.
A person close to both players told the New York Daily News that Parker and Stoudemire have talked about playing together in either New York or Miami.
"It's perfect for Tony because he wants to be in New York and he wants to play with Amar'e," said the source.
The Knicks need a point guard to play with Stoudemire, who will reportedly finalize a huge contract with New York this weekend.
New York has contacted New Orleans about Chris Paul and there are free agent options such as Raymond Felton and Luke Ridnour.
Via New York Daily News (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67786/20100703/knicks_want_to_pair_parker_with_amare/#)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>tweetmeme_source = 'realgmcom';</SCRIPT><SCRIPT type=text/javascript src="http://tweetmeme.com/i/scripts/button.js"></SCRIPT> <IFRAME height=61 src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/button.js?url=http%3A//www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67786/20100703/knicks_want_to_pair_parker_with_amare/&style=normal&source=realgmcom" frameBorder=0 width=50 scrolling=no></IFRAME>
New York Knicks (http://knicks.realgm.com/), San Antonio Spurs (http://spurs.realgm.com/)


Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67786/20100703/knicks_want_to_pair_parker_with_amare/#ixzz0sdRaikb6

Doddage
07-03-2010, 12:09 PM
If they picked him up, they'd have a pretty decent core group to work with:

Parker
?
Gallinari
Amare
?

Ideally, they'd plug in the holes with some defensive players that would complement those guys. Either way, that team is likely playoffs-bound and isn't a bad consolation prize if they strike out on the top tier FAs.

pwee31
07-03-2010, 12:12 PM
I also hear Joe Johnson is on the fence with the Hawks deal thinking of joining Amare and his former coach in NY.

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 06:55 PM
Bump.

Lance Stephenson, eh?

Apparently Duhon signed with the Magic. I missed that one. He's off the list now.

MyFavMartin
07-06-2010, 09:34 PM
FYI: JOB mentioned during the 2nd summer league game against New Jersey that Larry's trying hard to get a veteran PG.

BRushWithDeath
07-06-2010, 09:38 PM
Now that Blake has signed with the Lakers, I believe that ups the chances of Earl Watson returning. From what I'd heard he'd placed almost all his eggs in the LA basket. I don't know what the Clippers look like at the point right now however.

Chuck Chillout
07-06-2010, 09:41 PM
Now that Blake has signed with the Lakers, I believe that ups the chances of Earl Watson returning. From what I'd heard he'd placed almost all his eggs in the LA basket. I don't know what the Clippers look like at the point right now however.

Not an especially exciting possibility.

pacers74
07-06-2010, 09:44 PM
OB said tonight at the game that they are searching hard to find a vet PG. IF Farmar is not a vet then maybe they go for Ridnour.

tadscout
07-06-2010, 09:45 PM
Now that Blake has signed with the Lakers, I believe that ups the chances of Earl Watson returning. From what I'd heard he'd placed almost all his eggs in the LA basket. I don't know what the Clippers look like at the point right now however.

If Wade and Bosh are in Mia I could see Watson there...

BornReady
07-06-2010, 09:46 PM
did you guys get the feeling Indy doesn't plan on bringing Watson back by the way they talked about bringing in a PG? I kinda got that feeling.

BRushWithDeath
07-06-2010, 09:46 PM
Not an especially exciting possibility.

Agreed.

PaceBalls
07-06-2010, 09:48 PM
FYI: JOB mentioned during the 2nd summer league game against New Jersey that Larry's trying hard to get a veteran PG.

I think that means Bird is hoping no one offers Earl a multi year contract. I like Earl and I hope he comes back. Where else would Earl go where he would be the starter from day one? He knows "the system", JOB likes him, and he is a good solid player.

I have given up all hope for next season as long as Jim is coaching and Murph or Dunleavy are playing large minutes. So even though Earl isn't going to lead us to the playoffs or even be here more than another year, he is probably the best option.

pacers74
07-06-2010, 09:49 PM
did you guys get the feeling Indy doesn't plan on bringing Watson back by the way they talked about bringing in a PG? I kinda got that feeling.


Oh yea, if they were planing on bringing him back Bird would not be searching everywhere for a vet PG.

Anthem
07-06-2010, 09:56 PM
did you guys get the feeling Indy doesn't plan on bringing Watson back by the way they talked about bringing in a PG? I kinda got that feeling.
I just assumed that Earl said "No way in hades do I want to play here again unless I have no other choice."

BRushWithDeath
07-06-2010, 10:01 PM
I just assumed that Earl said "No way in hades do I want to play here again unless I have no other choice."

I think that's exactly what he's saying. I'm saying with Blake's signing with the Lakers that took away Earl's first choice just making the end of your statement more possible.

BornReady
07-07-2010, 01:14 PM
I found this to be interesting

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1176

Speed
07-07-2010, 01:20 PM
I found this to be interesting

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1176

Royal Ivey is someone I hadn't thought of. Dudes inept offensively, but tough and hardnosed. I'd guess he'd come at the min.? I wouldn't mind that versus dumping cash into another PG who isn't the answer, honestly.

Hicks
07-07-2010, 01:33 PM
I'd be cool with Ridnour offensively, but it will be ugly defensively.

McKeyFan
07-07-2010, 01:37 PM
How much would Rafer Alston (sp?) cost? I think he's pretty serviceable.

Tom White
07-07-2010, 01:43 PM
Oh yea, if they were planing on bringing him back Bird would not be searching everywhere for a vet PG.

Bird would still have to keep looking, in case Watson turns them down.

OakMoses
07-07-2010, 03:17 PM
If we're going stop-gap with no upside, Anthony Carter is a good player.

Speed
07-07-2010, 03:21 PM
Basically the PG they describe is Earl Watson. I'd still make a run at Jarret Jack. I think he'd may be be enough that they make the playoffs next year, assuming Roy's improved and others too.

Really too much TBD for me to talk about playoffs, though.

pacers74
07-07-2010, 03:34 PM
What vet's are left? The only ones I can think of our Ridnour and Watson. For the same price I would take Ridnour just for the sake of change.

CableKC
07-07-2010, 03:37 PM
All of those listed PGs are in play because of the 1-year offers that TPTB decided to only offer.

IMHO...all stop gap solutions that probably won't get us to the Playoffs.

pacers74
07-07-2010, 03:40 PM
Oh yea, Jason williams(no), Rafer Alston(no), and Randy Foye(don't know much about him, so probably a no).

CableKC
07-07-2010, 03:40 PM
How much would Rafer Alston (sp?) cost? I think he's pretty serviceable.
Alston is exactly the type of PG that I bet that we will sign IF Watson decides to go anywhere better.

pacers74
07-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Alston is exactly the type of PG that I bet that we will sign IF Watson decides to go anywhere better.

Okay, first Rafer is 34. That is a negative. His 2009-2010 salary $475,875. That is major positive. I bet he is one of the players Miami uses to fill up there roster.

BornReady
07-07-2010, 03:48 PM
wait are we not pursuing Farmar or Lowry anymore?!

BornReady
07-07-2010, 03:49 PM
or Felton?

docpaul
07-07-2010, 03:53 PM
Basically the PG they describe is Earl Watson. I'd still make a run at Jarret Jack. I think he'd may be be enough that they make the playoffs next year, assuming Roy's improved and others too.

Really too much TBD for me to talk about playoffs, though.

I still miss Jack, big time... I was disappointed when he moved onto Toronto...

Even today, he reminds me of why I liked him so much:

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/basketball/2010/07/06/14630716.html



Captain Jack. The words have a certain ring, words that could easily describe Jarrett Jack when all is said and done this off-season.

With Chris Bosh all but gone, a void in captaincy must be filled, a role Jack is ready to assume and embrace, if asked.

Say what you want about Bosh, but he never ducked questions when times got tough, always made himself available to the media and he always looked an inquisitor in the eye.

Bosh was the Raptorsí leader, but he led more by example as opposed to looking a player in the eye and bashing him.

No player is best suited to lead whatever team gets trotted out this fall than Jack, a veteran who easily relates to the teamís young core, a player who learned a lot about himself when he pouted following a demotion to back up.

ďAll the guys have a certain respect level for me,Ē Jack said Tuesday as he voluntarily took part in a free-agent camp at the Air Canada Centre.

ďIf that (captaincy) gets placed on my shoulder, I can handle it. Iím ready for it. Personally, I have to be a leader 24 hours, all the time. There canít be any breaks, no lapses, no steps back.

ďThatís one of the critiques Iíve addressed this off-season. Last year, my body language wasnít good when I should have persevered. I need to be that positive voice, whether the ship is afloat or if itís not going well.Ē

Sookie
07-07-2010, 04:10 PM
What is technically a vet?

Farmar's been to three finals...if you want winning experience...

CableKC
07-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Okay, first Rafer is 34. That is a negative. His 2009-2010 salary $475,875. That is major positive. I bet he is one of the players Miami uses to fill up there roster.
I'd think so too...but didn't he have some falling out with Miami last season?

If anything, my guess is that the remaining PGs like Felton and Ridnour is waiting to find out who wins the Lebron/Wade sweepstakes. We're left with ( like always ) the remaining scraps.

Alston, IMHO fits that bill. I know that many of you have said no already...but I'd think that Iverson would fit that bill too....heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we knocked on the door of Anthony Johnson.

The way I look at it is that we are going to get the veteran PG that no other Team wants. Why? because we are looking for 1 year Stop-Gap solutions PGs that can get us from the start of the season to the lottery in 82 games.

tadscout
07-07-2010, 04:19 PM
wait are we not pursuing Farmar or Lowry anymore?!

I don't think that's the case... by JoB saying they are looking for a vet, I think they just don't want to hand the starting spot over to the rook Stephenson...

I think some were just taking the term veteran to literally/ far... they just want someone with a little experience.

CableKC
07-07-2010, 04:20 PM
or Felton?
Cuz everyone knows that the Knicks are waiting outside his door with a truck of $$$ the second that Lebron signs with the Knicks.

Felton is the best FA PG ( yeah, that sucks, I know.. ) and the Heat and the Knicks ( most likely ) are going to overpay him.

nyballer31
07-07-2010, 04:42 PM
He may or may not be available but I have been impressed with Maynor in the summer league. He has good quickness, sees the floor well, solid ball handler, can make the open shot and plays in control.

pacers74
07-07-2010, 04:44 PM
wait are we not pursuing Farmar or Lowry anymore?!


Just reading too much into what JOB said yesterday, I think Bird is looking for a proven starter. I still want to try to get farmar myself, but he is not a proven starter vet. Lowry is not a starter either so i don't think we go after him either. As for Felton his price tag is going to be too high. It looks he will go to the Knicks.

I could be way off, but I think they are trying to get someone who has been around and someone who has been a starter. I would rather go wtih youth a give Farmar a try, but I think they go for someone like Ridnour if they can get him.

CableKC
07-07-2010, 05:25 PM
Just reading too much into what JOB said yesterday, I think Bird is looking for a proven starter. I still want to try to get farmar myself, but he is not a proven starter vet. Lowry is not a starter either so i don't think we go after him either. As for Felton his price tag is going to be too high. It looks he will go to the Knicks.

I could be way off, but I think they are trying to get someone who has been around and someone who has been a starter. I would rather go wtih youth a give Farmar a try, but I think they go for someone like Ridnour if they can get him.
For PGs like Ridnour, Felton, Farmar and ( possibly ) Lowry.....they have enough demand that they aren't going to go for a single 1 year deal.

wintermute
07-08-2010, 08:20 AM
minnesota meeting with ridnour

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/well-of-course-the-minnesota-timberwolves-would-meet-with-luke-ridnour.php

just because david kahn didn't draft a pg this year, doesn't mean he can't sign one now eh :laugh:

i guess we can expect a sessions trade in the near future.

Justin Tyme
07-08-2010, 08:46 AM
minnesota meeting with ridnour

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/well-of-course-the-minnesota-timberwolves-would-meet-with-luke-ridnour.php

just because david kahn didn't draft a pg this year, doesn't mean he can't sign one now eh :laugh:

i guess we can expect a sessions trade in the near future.



And it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least if the Sessions trade was to the Pacers.

OakMoses
07-09-2010, 03:17 PM
Randy Foye gone. It's not a terrible contract.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjjNHaJMuS.3xQ0EbWjJiG.8vLYF?slug=ys-gomesclippers070810

Slick Pinkham
07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Solid acquisitions by the Clippers---4 mil each for what should be solid rotation players.

Speed
07-09-2010, 03:26 PM
David Kahn manages an NBA team, like collected Basketball cards as a kid.

OakMoses
07-09-2010, 03:40 PM
David Kahn manages an NBA team, like collected Basketball cards as a kid.

You can't fault him for the Beasley deal though. He made a huge talent grab for free. It's not like the Wolves were going anywhere next season any way.

Speed
07-09-2010, 03:56 PM
You can't fault him for the Beasley deal though. He made a huge talent grab for free. It's not like the Wolves were going anywhere next season any way.

Agreed "free", is the right price. Nothing to lose, in that situation.

count55
07-09-2010, 04:59 PM
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/18146701714

Looks like Felton will be off the market soon.

Also, Tyrus Thomas supposedly signing a 5/40 contract with Bobs, which precludes any S&T for the Pacers to get Felton.


Knicks close to signing pg Raymond Felton to multi-year deal, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Trophy
07-09-2010, 05:05 PM
How about T.J. Ford and Solomon Jones for Jarrett Jack and Marcus Banks?

Toronto will save money after this season.

Ozwalt72
07-09-2010, 05:38 PM
Since this is the PG thread, I'll post this here instead of cluttering the main page with more Lebron topics....

Here's a list of every team's PG situation. I may have missed some FA signings or draft picks... gathered info from Shamsports.

Atlanta- Bibby, Teague
Boston- Rondo, Bradley
Charlotte- D.J. Augustine
Chicago- Derrick Rose
Cleveland- Mo Williams, Delonte West, Sebastion Telfair, Daniel Gibson
Dallas- Kidd, Beaubois, Barea
Denver- Billups, Lawson
Detroit- Rodney Stuckey, Terrico White
Golden State- Ellis, Curry, C.J. Watson
Houston- Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry

Indiana- Ford, Price, maybe Stephenson

LA Clippers- Baron Davis, Bledsoe
LA Lakers- Blake, Fisher?
Memphis- Mike Conley, Greivis Vasquez
Miami- Mario Chalmers
Milwaulkee- Jennings
Minnesota- Flynn, Sessions
New Jersey- Devin Harris
New Orleans- Chris Paul, Darren Collison
New York- Tony Douglas
Oklahoma City- Russell Westbrook, Eric Maynor
Orlando Magic- Jameer Nelson, Chris Duhon
Philadelphia- Jrue Holliday, Lou Williams
Phoenix- Steve Nash, Goran Dragic
Portland- Andre Miller, Jerryd Bayless, Patty Mills, Armon Johnson
Sacramento- Udrih, Evans
San Antonio- Tony Parker, George Hill,....Curtis Jerrels?(Shamsports shows him under contract)
Toronto- Calderon, Jack, Banks
Utah- D. Williams, Sundiatta Gaines, Ronnie Price
Washington- Arenas, Hinrich, John Wall

docpaul
07-09-2010, 06:04 PM
http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/18146701714

Looks like Felton will be off the market soon.

Also, Tyrus Thomas supposedly signing a 5/40 contract with Bobs, which precludes any S&T for the Pacers to get Felton.

Looks like we're on a collision course towards Farmar, multi-year, low dollars... the likelihood of that is around 60% IMO.

Trade for Collison or Maynor is about 30% likely. This is the "swing for the fences trade".

Staying as we currently are constructed, about 10%.

Twitter chatter seems to point towards Farmar coming to Indy.

tsm612
07-09-2010, 06:26 PM
Looks like we're on a collision course towards Farmar, multi-year, low dollars... the likelihood of that is around 60% IMO.

Trade for Collison or Maynor is about 30% likely. This is the "swing for the fences trade".

Staying as we currently are constructed, about 10%.

Twitter chatter seems to point towards Farmar coming to Indy.

Has there been any talk recently to support this? I haven't read anything about Farmar in quite awhile.

CableKC
07-09-2010, 06:48 PM
Just to refine Oswalt72's PG list....I split up the list into ones that will likely need to upgrade or improve their Starting PG situation ( and therefore figure out who we're going to compete against for Starting PG services ). I've highlighted the Teams that appear to be set at the PG spot ( at least for the upcoming season ) and those that probably need an upgrade:

Teams that don't need a new Starting PG ( for the 2010-2011 season ):

Boston- Rondo, Bradley
Chicago- Derrick Rose
Dallas- Kidd, Beaubois, Barea
Denver- Billups, Lawson
Detroit- Rodney Stuckey, Terrico White
Golden State- Ellis, Curry, C.J. Watson
Houston- Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry
LA Clippers- Baron Davis, Bledsoe
Milwaulkee- Jennings
Minnesota- Flynn, Sessions, Rubio
New Jersey- Devin Harris
New Orleans- Chris Paul, Darren Collison
New York- Felton? Tony Douglas ( guessing that Felton will sign here )
Oklahoma City- Russell Westbrook, Eric Maynor
Orlando Magic- Jameer Nelson, Chris Duhon
Philadelphia- Jrue Holliday, Lou Williams
Phoenix- Steve Nash, Goran Dragic
Sacramento- Udrih, Evans
San Antonio- Tony Parker, George Hill,....Curtis Jerrels?(Shamsports shows him under contract)
Utah- D. Williams, Sundiatta Gaines, Ronnie Price
Washington- Arenas, Hinrich, John Wall

Teams that probably don't need a new Starting PG but can upgrade ( if the opportunity arises ):

Atlanta- Bibby, Teague
LA Lakers- Blake, Fisher?
Miami- Mario Chalmers
Portland- Andre Miller, Jerryd Bayless, Patty Mills, Armon Johnson
Toronto- Calderon, Jack, Banks

That leaves the Teams that definitely need a new Starting PG:

Indiana- Ford, Price, maybe Stephenson
Memphis- Mike Conley, Greivis Vasquez

Teams like Portland and Toronto don't really need a Starting PG...but can easily trade for one since they do not appear to be too happy with their current Starting PG. In San Antonio's case, it's possible that they will need a Starting PG if they decide to move Parker.

That ( of course ) only leaves the Pacers and the Grizzlies ( who has been looking for their Starting PG forever ) who are truly looking for a quality Starting PG...with the Pacers being the most desperate for one.

CableKC
07-09-2010, 06:51 PM
Looks like we're on a collision course towards Farmar, multi-year, low dollars... the likelihood of that is around 60% IMO.

Trade for Collison or Maynor is about 30% likely. This is the "swing for the fences trade".

Staying as we currently are constructed, about 10%.

Twitter chatter seems to point towards Farmar coming to Indy.
I'd say that it's more like:

Farmar - 25%
Collison or Maynor - 10%
Getting a 1 year "cheapie" Vet PG that no one wants - 65%

DrFife
07-09-2010, 07:10 PM
That leaves the Teams that definitely need a new Starting PG:

Indiana- Ford, Price, maybe Stephenson
Memphis- Mike Conley, Greivis Vasquez


Regarding Memphis, I wonder about OJ Mayo-naise taking over the PG spot, the Griz trading Conley in order to upgrade elsewhere on their roster SF? PF?), and Vasquez backing up Mayo. Anyone been hearing anything about this?

pacergod2
07-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Cable... you forgot Cleveland and Charlotte. I would both of them in the "could use an upgrade" section as well. I think that its less about upgrading Mo Williams and more about their decision on a possible new direction. Charlotte has a good young PG with potential, but that potential is just potential right now.

OakMoses
07-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Regarding Memphis, I wonder about OJ Mayo-naise taking over the PG spot, the Griz trading Conley in order to upgrade elsewhere on their roster SF? PF?), and Vasquez backing up Mayo. Anyone been hearing anything about this?

I've heard a lot about Mayo practicing his PG skills this summer. Supposedly they've decided that he's too small to guard SG's consistently well and they'd like to try him at PG.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/oj-mayo-dreams-of-being-a-point-guard.php

McKeyFan
07-09-2010, 09:05 PM
For cheaper, I'd try for Sessions. If we're gonna spend some money I'd try for Hinrich.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Lance Stephenson's play in Orlando summer league has Pacers officials thinking they may not need to try to acquire a 2nd PG this summer.
http://twitter.com/Wells222/status/18165498341

Big difference from what we heard from O'Brien earlier this week about, "Larry searching high and low for a point guard."

pwee31
07-09-2010, 10:40 PM
hmm does that mean we start the season with Ford and Stephenson, b/c I seriously doubt Price will be ready?

Young
07-09-2010, 10:41 PM
http://twitter.com/Wells222/status/18165498341

That might be the best thing. Although with Price's injury it might be wise to sign someone.

But hey if the Pacers really think that Lance can play they might as well play him and see what he can do. If he is half as good as some make him out to be he will be pretty good.

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-09-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm in favor of letting Lance go through the bumps and bruises this season. I think we'll be a better team for it in the long run instead of renting a one-year journeyman. If Lance is going to reach his potential, he needs all the playing time he can get.

On the other hand, I'm not in favor of just handing him the starting role. I want him to stay hungry and I'm afraid if you just hand it to him, he might get too complacent.

graphic-er
07-09-2010, 11:31 PM
Well well, everyone said earlier today that there was no way the Pacers are able to obtain Parker, and he'd most likely bolt for New York next year. Except Felton just signed for 7 Million a year! Things are looking up in Pacer land. Where else would Parker go over Indy?

BornReady
07-10-2010, 12:17 AM
http://twitter.com/Wells222/status/18165498341

Big difference from what we heard from O'Brien earlier this week about, "Larry searching high and low for a point guard."

hmm I'm wary of this. I LOVE Lance to death already, but I definitely don't think he's ready to get extensive minutes at the PG position. He does have a lot of potential, but not NBA quality just yet.

Sookie
07-10-2010, 01:05 AM
hmm I'm wary of this. I LOVE Lance to death already, but I definitely don't think he's ready to get extensive minutes at the PG position. He does have a lot of potential, but not NBA quality just yet.

It's just the spin.

It means, no one wants Ford, they're going to pray hopefully Price is healthy early or we're in trouble, cause Stephenson is not a PG. Ford/Stephenson would be a nightmare. And I kinda wonder which one will be the worse PG. The rookie who isn't actually a PG..or Ford...I'm thinking Ford..

Maybe they want to see Price/Stephenson run the position, (that kinda has fail written all over it too. I think Price can run it. But I don't know if he can after an injury, and with a rookie non PG backing him up.) and are just keeping Ford until closer to the deadline,because he'll be worth more.

imawhat
07-10-2010, 02:12 AM
Good to hear that from Wells. I don't think Stephenson is the answer, but he has pretty good potential. He's only 19, just played his first few games as a PG and handled them very well.

I just think it's a bad idea to spend time/money on another backup when we already have 2 that we can develop. We don't need one. If Lance turns out well, then he's a great trading chip at the very least.

BornReady
07-10-2010, 02:25 AM
Good to hear that from Wells. I don't think Stephenson is the answer, but he has pretty good potential. He's only 19, just played his first few games as a PG and handled them very well.

I just think it's a bad idea to spend time/money on another backup when we already have 2 that we can develop. We don't need one. If Lance turns out well, then he's a great trading chip at the very least.

If he turns out well, I'd hope we keep him! :)

count55
07-10-2010, 08:54 AM
It's just the spin.

It means, no one wants Ford, they're going to pray hopefully Price is healthy early or we're in trouble, cause Stephenson is not a PG. Ford/Stephenson would be a nightmare. And I kinda wonder which one will be the worse PG. The rookie who isn't actually a PG..or Ford...I'm thinking Ford..

Maybe they want to see Price/Stephenson run the position, (that kinda has fail written all over it too. I think Price can run it. But I don't know if he can after an injury, and with a rookie non PG backing him up.) and are just keeping Ford until closer to the deadline,because he'll be worth more.

Wells' article this morning clarifies the "no longer need 2nd PG" comment:


What has changed, though, is they no longer desire two point guards.

IOW, they were looking to add 2 PG's, now they are OK with adding 1, using Stephenson as the backup, if Price's injury keeps him out for an extended period of time.

Sparhawk
07-10-2010, 09:50 AM
It's just a little bit frustrating when it seems that other teams are making moves and the Pacers just keep talking. Let's get the PG position solved as well as hammering out the final roster build.

At the very least, I hope they get Rolle and Lance signed soon.

OakMoses
07-10-2010, 12:02 PM
It's just a little bit frustrating when it seems that other teams are making moves and the Pacers just keep talking. Let's get the PG position solved as well as hammering out the final roster build.


The teams that are making moves are either playoff locks or have cap space.

Players are motivated by winning and money more than anything else. Since we can't offer either of those things right now, it really limits what we can do.

I have no doubt that Bird & Co. are working very hard.


Felton is gone. OP edited.

idioteque
07-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Daniel Gibson, who I believe Melli brought up in another thread, is an intriguing option to me. I know he's not an undisputed starter but from what I hear about the guy he doesn't have a problem passing and can shoot the three. Is there a scouting site out there that provides reports for guys once they actually get out of college and start playing in the league (not Draft Express)?

Jose Slaughter
07-12-2010, 12:52 AM
I think its going to come down to a sign & trade for one of the following...

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Anthony Carter
Keyon Dooling
Eddie House
Anthony Johnson
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Nate Robinson

Either Solomon Jones, Dahntay Jones or Josh McRoberts will be moved to help balance the roster. The new PG will have a deal similar to what Darrell Armstrong did, only the first year of the deal will be guaranteed.

pwee31
07-12-2010, 12:57 AM
I think its going to come down to a sign & trade for one of the following...

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Anthony Carter
Keyon Dooling
Eddie House
Anthony Johnson
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Nate Robinson

Either Solomon Jones, Dahntay Jones or Josh McRoberts will be moved to help balance the roster. The new PG will have a deal similar to what Darrell Armstrong did, only the first year of the deal will be guaranteed.

:puke:

Nate Robinson would be the only interest really

Jose Slaughter
07-12-2010, 01:26 AM
I'm not saying I like our options, I'm just saying ....

Once we do bring a guy in I look for the forum to resemble the scene in the old black & white monster movies when the anrgy villagers storm the castle with pitch forks & torches!

Any real meaningfull changes to the roster won't come before February, & more likely not until next summer.

Being a Pacer fan is really going to suck for another season.

pacers74
07-12-2010, 01:28 AM
I think its going to come down to a sign & trade for one of the following...

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Anthony Carter
Keyon Dooling
Eddie House
Anthony Johnson
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Nate Robinson

Either Solomon Jones, Dahntay Jones or Josh McRoberts will be moved to help balance the roster. The new PG will have a deal similar to what Darrell Armstrong did, only the first year of the deal will be guaranteed.

None of them are worth it.

Ozwalt72
07-12-2010, 01:43 AM
Being a Pacer fan is really going to suck for another season.

Not for me. You have no idea how relieved I feel that next year is the year we'll have space. Let everyone that wants to overpay for roleplayers do it here, and we'll be one of the few teams bailing them out next year.

Or so I hope.

And I'll enjoy the swan song of Troy Murphy as a Pacer. All the moments....

PacersPride
07-12-2010, 03:41 AM
I think its going to come down to a sign & trade for one of the following...

Rafer Alston
Carlos Arroyo
Anthony Carter
Keyon Dooling
Eddie House
Anthony Johnson
Jannero Pargo
Chris Quinn
Nate Robinson

Either Solomon Jones, Dahntay Jones or Josh McRoberts will be moved to help balance the roster. The new PG will have a deal similar to what Darrell Armstrong did, only the first year of the deal will be guaranteed.

whats the point in bringing these guys in here.. they are not the solution at the point guard. are we just trying to sign someone for the sake of it.. are any of these guys really that much of an upgrade over Ford?

unless we find someone who addresses the pg issue.. why not let Price and Stephenson backup Ford. then Ford can walk after this year and we acquire someone in the draft.

just dont understand the purpose of bringing in any of the guys on that list.

Infinite MAN_force
07-12-2010, 03:51 AM
I say we bring back Jarret Jack. If its reasonably possible. Hopefully getting rid of Ford in the process.

TooBigNdaPaint
07-12-2010, 09:13 AM
Just reading too much into what JOB said yesterday, I think Bird is looking for a proven starter. I still want to try to get farmar myself, but he is not a proven starter vet. Lowry is not a starter either so i don't think we go after him either. As for Felton his price tag is going to be too high. It looks he will go to the Knicks.

I could be way off, but I think they are trying to get someone who has been around and someone who has been a starter. I would rather go wtih youth a give Farmar a try, but I think they go for someone like Ridnour if they can get him.

Sounds like a major trade may be in the works.......this may explain Bird's optimism about this year.

TooBigNdaPaint
07-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Regarding Memphis, I wonder about OJ Mayo-naise taking over the PG spot, the Griz trading Conley in order to upgrade elsewhere on their roster SF? PF?), and Vasquez backing up Mayo. Anyone been hearing anything about this?

Here's what one Memphis Grizz superfan stated about OJ Mayo vs Conley starting at the PG position this year:

"OJ Mayo will be the starting point guard by January, he is so much better than Conley. I have been around OJ Mayo and Mike Conley in social settings. OJ is like a highly alert shark, Mike is a super nice guy with his head in the clouds. If the Grizzlies are serious about letting OJ play the point, the choice will be obvious this season."

With NBA teams looking 'high and low' for big PGs, LB and Morway lucked out on Draft Night and now have a potential big PG in Lance Stephenson and they know it!!! The only PGs that may be available this year and definitely would be better than Lance Stephenson is Tony Parker or Chris Paul.

Let's hope LB is trying to snag one of these two guys. I just don't think either one would want to play for JOB or his strange offensive system.

JB24
07-12-2010, 09:32 AM
It's hoopsworld but...


Yesterday the Raptors shipped off Hedo Turkoglu to Phoenix and got Leandro Barbosa in return and have a deal that's likely to drop today which will return Boris Diaw for Jose Calderon and Tyson CHandler for the trade exception the team obtained from Miami in the Bosh sign-and-trade deal.

Link (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16779)

That would mean one less destination for TJ and Jack, i'm assuming, would be off the market.

QuickRelease
07-12-2010, 09:47 AM
I'm not saying I like our options, I'm just saying ....

Once we do bring a guy in I look for the forum to resemble the scene in the old black & white monster movies when the anrgy villagers storm the castle with pitch forks & torches!

Any real meaningfull changes to the roster won't come before February, & more likely not until next summer.

Being a Pacer fan is really going to suck for another 1/2 season.Cuz I think around February's trade deadline, things are gonna get really interesting.

sportfireman
07-12-2010, 09:49 AM
We are notgoing to sign a PG this season..........the Pacers will start off the season with T.J. and Lance and A.J. close to returning from injury. A.J. gets healthyand he's starting and Lance is the backup with T.J. on the bench again. UNLESS we trade for a PG we're not getting one, we are going with what we have.

Pacersalltheway10
07-12-2010, 09:50 AM
At least we can possibly leap frog Toronto and Cleveland in the standings to finally get to that #8 seed or maybe higher.

Speed
07-12-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm thinking a Kevin Ollie type, after a buy out of Solomon Jones. I'm actually okay with that, as long as Lance and then a healthy AJ gets minutes throughout the season.

I think you have to have another PG to start that season, you can't carry two, with one being TJ Ford and the other a 19 year old kid who's never played the position.

I really don't want to over commit for a PG right now who's not really better than TJ (system aside).

If you had maybe some other hybrid guys who could pretend to be a Point Guard maybe, but I don't think you do.

You could maybe fake it defensively, with D Jones guarding PGs or Dunleavy bringing the ball up on offense, but you can't fake it with one guy, at all.

So let's say TJ goes down in this scenario, that leaves you Lance on opening night, with no back up?

You can buy out Solo, Rolle takes that role. Kevin Ollie type is insurance.

Anyway, a one year career journeyman, imho, is the way to go instead of overpaying (length of contract) for a guy who's average anyway.

Let's basically, stand pat and address the long term point guard spot next year or sooner if a good deal presents itself. Instead of sigining a guy that a week later, you feel like was a mistake.

wintermute
07-12-2010, 10:11 AM
It's hoopsworld but...



Link (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16779)

That would mean one less destination for TJ and Jack, i'm assuming, would be off the market.

there's speculation that if charlotte moves diaw to toronto as rumored, they'll use the resulting trade exception to absorb tj ford's contract - though maybe they won't do that if they're getting calderon for chandler as well.

if we can trade tj for nothing, we'll then have plenty of space to use our midlevel - but unfortunately there's no good pg left to spend it on.

vnzla81
07-12-2010, 10:21 AM
It's hoopsworld but...



Link (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16779)

That would mean one less destination for TJ and Jack, i'm assuming, would be off the market.

damn Toronto is getting better, Barbosa, De Rosan, Boris, Andrea,Chandler not a bad team

cdash
07-12-2010, 10:27 AM
damn Toronto is getting better, Barbosa, De Rosan, Boris, Andrea,Chandler not a bad team

Ehhh...looks like a 25 win team to me.

Justin Tyme
07-12-2010, 10:32 AM
there's speculation that if charlotte moves diaw to toronto as rumored, they'll use the resulting trade exception to absorb tj ford's contract - though maybe they won't do that if they're getting calderon for chandler as well.

if we can trade tj for nothing, we'll then have plenty of space to use our midlevel - but unfortunately there's no good pg left to spend it on.


I haven't understood BC in Toronto. Why does he want Diaw? On the other hand if his wanting Diaw gets the Pacers a TE from Charlotte for Ford, who am I to question BC's motives. The Pacers getting a TE could be "the ANSWER" to getting the PG situation solved! I just can't fathom the Pacers getting a TE for Ford, but I'd probably be the happiest poster on this board if it truly came to fruitition. It would be such an unbelieveable blessing!

McKeyFan
07-12-2010, 10:39 AM
I'd go with Rafer Alston.

I think he was great for Orlando. As good as Jameer Nelson is, he is shoot first, and I think that ultimately hurt Orlando in the playoffs this year.

Hicks
07-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Alston could be a nice stop-gap, but he burns bridges wherever he goes, doesn't he?

vnzla81
07-12-2010, 10:45 AM
Ehhh...looks like a 25 win team to me.

I am not sure about that, if they stay healthy the could maybe win more games than the Pacers

vnzla81
07-12-2010, 10:48 AM
I'd go with Rafer Alston.

I think he was great for Orlando. As good as Jameer Nelson is, he is shoot first, and I think that ultimately hurt Orlando in the playoffs this year.

Rafer has an attitute problem, they trade him everywhere he goes, no thanks

Really?
07-12-2010, 11:04 AM
Pacers are targeting college PG's... that they won't find until next year so no worries just be patient and see what happens then... if they don't get one then, they will go to the next draft class... and so on and so on....lol

Future options are....

2011
Kyrie Irving
Josh Shelby(shorter lance stephenson with better pg abilities)
Brandon Knight
Kemba Walker

2012
Marquies Teague
Myck Kabongo
Quinn Cook

One of them most likely will be a future Pacer...

Forgot about Abdul Gaddy in this years class if he ever gets his stuff together...

nyballer31
07-12-2010, 12:02 PM
What's the point to bring in Alston or any of these other stop gap pg's? So we can win 32 games instead of 25 games.We already have a pg on our roster who has no future as a pacer.We might as well have him start and lance back him up until Price is ready to go.Then we can get back to T.J Ford sitting at the end of the bench and not playing till his contract runs out.The same thing can be said about other positions.The most important thing that can be done this season in my eyes to develop and give playing time to our young guys.If that costs us 10-15 games so be it. We will be better off in the future.

CableKC
07-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Rafer has an attitute problem, they trade him everywhere he goes, no thanks

I don't like him either....but we're at the point of "we'll take whatever Vet PG that is willilng to sign for a 1 year contract" when it comes to PGs.

If the Pacers were willing to offer Farmar what the Nets offered him...I'd guess that he'd sign with the Pacers. But since we are only willing to sign a PG to a 1 year deal......options like Alston is going to be the likely candidates that we're looking at.....specifically...the leftover PGs that the Heat don't want to sign.

With the Heat's need to fill out their roster with minimum contract type Players/PGs and all that we are willing to offer is 1 year deals....we're going to be competing with the Heat for the services of a "serviceable" PG.

Don't count on Ridnour to sign with us....heck, not even Watson IF he's being courted by the Heat. If given the choice between signing a 1 year deal with the Heat at the league minimum as opposed to a 1 year deal with the Pacers for a slightly higher offer.....which Team do you think any PG would choose?

CableKC
07-12-2010, 12:27 PM
What's the point to bring in Alston or any of these other stop gap pg's? So we can win 32 games instead of 25 games.We already have a pg on our roster who has no future as a pacer.We might as well have him start and lance back him up until Price is ready to go.Then we can get back to T.J Ford sitting at the end of the bench and not playing till his contract runs out.The same thing can be said about other positions.The most important thing that can be done this season in my eyes to develop and give playing time to our young guys.If that costs us 10-15 games so be it. We will be better off in the future.
I'd agree with you on this.

Unlike many of you, I don't think that Sessions is our answer to a long-term Starting PG option for the Team. I don't like Ford as much as the next person when it comes to acquiring a PG at a high cost, but I'd consider playing Ford until AJ is ready then decide where to go at that point. Heck, I'd even consider moving Dunleavy+Solo for Calderon+sweetner before other PG options like Collison or Sessions.

PaceBalls
07-12-2010, 12:32 PM
With no trades happening during draft time I really am starting to think we are going into next season as is. TJ is sometimes a decent point guard and he is on the payroll. He will be playing alot, with AJ splitting time. I can see Lance getting alot of PT there too, though I really don't think that's a good position for him.

I think we will see these guys as our PGs until near the trade deadline, and possibly till next years draft/offseason.

McKeyFan
07-12-2010, 12:34 PM
Alston could be a nice stop-gap, but he burns bridges wherever he goes, doesn't he?

That would certainly be a factor to consider. I've never heard anything about it.

Speed
07-12-2010, 12:35 PM
Problem is I heard in an interview with AJ on Mark Patrick right after the draft, that AJ might not be ready until half way through the season. Even then I wonder how many mins he can play and how confident he'll be in his wheels. So, I don't think you can count on AJ for anything at this point, subject to change I guess.

BPump33
07-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Wells222 Cross off Charlotte as a possible spot for TJ. Reports out of Charlotte and Toronto have the Bobcats on the brink of acquiring Calderon.

https://twitter.com/Wells222

PaceBalls
07-12-2010, 12:42 PM
Problem is I heard in an interview with AJ on Mark Patrick right after the draft, that AJ might not be ready until half way through the season. Even then I wonder how many mins he can play and how confident he'll be in his wheels. So, I don't think you can count on AJ for anything at this point, subject to change I guess.

Gods, that would suck.

I have already written this next season off unless they fire Jim / trade Troy Murphy. I just don't see a point in getting a veteran back up PG for a year. I hope they just sink or swim with TJ and Lance and AJ later on. I certainly don't want them to commit to a mediocre guy like Sessions or Ridenhour long term out of desperation for a season that is already doomed to fail. I know the front office can't think like they are doomed to fail next year, but that's how I see it.

Speed
07-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Wells222 Cross off Charlotte as a possible spot for TJ. Reports out of Charlotte and Toronto have the Bobcats on the brink of acquiring Calderon.

https://twitter.com/Wells222

Calderon is so far from the type of Point Guard Larry Brown likes it's ridiculous.

CableKC
07-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Wells222 Cross off Charlotte as a possible spot for TJ. Reports out of Charlotte and Toronto have the Bobcats on the brink of acquiring Calderon.

https://twitter.com/Wells222
That sucks. Someone is going to have to provide more details...but I don't get the sense that Calderon is a bad PG...so much so that Ford and Jack supplanted him at the Starting PG spot.

My brief recollection is that he was injured last season and that he was having issues with whichever Coach the Raptors had ( Sam Mitchell, I think ) when Ford was there. To me, despite being a poor PG on the defensive end... I think that he's a very solid and efficient Pass-first PG who is capable of shooting and scoring the ball. I think that Calderon is one of those Players that need a change in scenary.

DrFife
07-12-2010, 12:51 PM
Wells222 Cross off Charlotte as a possible spot for TJ. Reports out of Charlotte and Toronto have the Bobcats on the brink of acquiring Calderon.

https://twitter.com/Wells222

So if Toronto's blowin' it up, TJ for JJ? Not the answer, I know, but not bad; interesting to see him and Lance in the back court. Plus, high-character, good leadership, wants to play here....

PaceBalls
07-12-2010, 12:54 PM
So if Toronto's blowin' it up, TJ for JJ? Not the answer, I know, but not bad; interesting to see him and Lance in the back court. Plus, high-character, good leadership, wants to play here....

I wish it could happen, the Pacers should never have let Jack go so they could sign the Jones boys... but you gotta think with Toronto sending off Calderon, it looks like they want Jack to run their team.

pacers74
07-12-2010, 01:10 PM
What other PG does Toronto have besides Jack, no one. I doubt they let him go.

pwee31
07-12-2010, 01:10 PM
This T.J Ford situation is so similar to the Tinsley situation w/o the off-court baggage, it's just disgusting

MLB007
07-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Problem is I heard in an interview with AJ on Mark Patrick right after the draft, that AJ might not be ready until half way through the season. Even then I wonder how many mins he can play and how confident he'll be in his wheels. So, I don't think you can count on AJ for anything at this point, subject to change I guess.

That's what I thought , but read last week somewhere that he might be back part way through training camp!
That would be nice~ :cool:

Speed
07-12-2010, 01:21 PM
That's what I thought , but read last week somewhere that he might be back part way through training camp!
That would be nice~ :cool:

That would really help matters! If that does happen, I'm actually okay with doing nothing, big time.

It will force Obie to play AJ and Lance at the Point to get experience.

I mean, I know it will get ugly, maybe have some 8 turnover games from Lance and some 23% shooting games from AJ, but I could live with that if you're working towards something.

Really?
07-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting if we could possibly work out some deal with Utah to get Deron for Danny plus a few pieces...

Likelyhood about .000009% but I like Deron Long term over Granger and I think it's easier finding a good wing in the Draft than a Franchise PG...

One can only dream....

McKeyFan
07-12-2010, 01:35 PM
This T.J Ford situation is so similar to the Tinsley situation w/o the off-court baggage, it's just disgusting

Well, instead, we could have JO still here, dominating the physical therapy room.

pwee31
07-12-2010, 01:39 PM
Well, instead, we could have JO still here, dominating the physical therapy room.

Nah, the only downfall would be we wouldn't have Hibbert. JO's contract would have been up this year.

I was just saying the Pacers have tried to trade Ford a year and a half now, and still can't find any suitors. Another PG with $7-$8mil on their contract that no team wants, and will just wait for you to buy them out b/c they know you don't want them either

Mourning
07-12-2010, 01:42 PM
That would really help matters! If that does happen, I'm actually okay with doing nothing, big time.

It will force Obie to play AJ and Lance at the Point to get experience.

I mean, I know it will get ugly, maybe have some 8 turnover games from Lance and some 23% shooting games from AJ, but I could live with that if you're working towards something.

I agree. I would add though that I would like us to add ONE veteran and solid PG. He can be a bit over the hill even. It has to be someone who can play about 10-15 MPG of decent PG a game and actually help our young current backup PG's learn what is needed. A teacher so to say. Price and Stephenson are both greener then grass, so a tutor on the court would be a good idea IMHO.

IF that player comes for slightly above the minimum I would be cool with that. IF it would be two years that would be ok with me too.

LoneGranger33
07-12-2010, 01:48 PM
So if Toronto's blowin' it up, TJ for JJ? Not the answer, I know, but not bad; interesting to see him and Lance in the back court. Plus, high-character, good leadership, wants to play here....

I think Toronto probably burned its bridges with TJ when they chose Calderon over him the first time through.

Dece
07-12-2010, 01:52 PM
I'll never understand this board's fascination with J.Jack.

vnzla81
07-12-2010, 01:56 PM
I'll never understand this board's fascination with J.Jack.

that will never go away :rolleyes:

nyballer31
07-12-2010, 02:33 PM
Problem is I heard in an interview with AJ on Mark Patrick right after the draft, that AJ might not be ready until half way through the season. Even then I wonder how many mins he can play and how confident he'll be in his wheels. So, I don't think you can count on AJ for anything at this point, subject to change I guess.

I had not heard AJ could miss that much time.That being said we should still just play T.J and let lance get 20 minutes a game.As for our 3rd pg you can sign one of those guys playing summer league ball for the mininum as far as I care or trade S.Jones for some one of equal talent at the pg spot.If we do it this way we will know within the first 30 games whether Lance has any chance that he can be an effective pg for the future.If it turns out Lance just doesn't have it to be a pro pg then we re evaluate what were going to do at that position.

Hopefully by that time AJ is back he starts ,T.J's expiring will get more valuable as the season progresses and if we get lucky and is giving us good production then maybe we get more back for him then a salary dump.

We really can't afford to have this season wasted not knowing what we have in our young core because lets face it if JOB had his way he would start a vet PG ,Dunleavy just to get a couple extra victories.

Sookie
07-12-2010, 02:55 PM
I agree. I would add though that I would like us to add ONE veteran and solid PG. He can be a bit over the hill even. It has to be someone who can play about 10-15 MPG of decent PG a game and actually help our young current backup PG's learn what is needed. A teacher so to say. Price and Stephenson are both greener then grass, so a tutor on the court would be a good idea IMHO.

IF that player comes for slightly above the minimum I would be cool with that. IF it would be two years that would be ok with me too.

The only issue is, if you get that...

JOB will play that player 40 minutes per night, AJ will get the other 8, and Stephenson will be on the bench. (Although, of course, AJ might get some time at Shooting guard.)

Mourning
07-13-2010, 05:31 AM
The only issue is, if you get that...

JOB will play that player 40 minutes per night, AJ will get the other 8, and Stephenson will be on the bench. (Although, of course, AJ might get some time at Shooting guard.)

Well... if that be the case, then so be it. It's only for one year.

I would hope we would try to seriously see how Price and Stephenson can develop the coming season. They can be brought on carefully getting more minutes gradually during the season. They have to see the court though. Immediately giving Lance 30 minutes, and starting off learning the wrong things is not what I want though.

Lance does need to get some minutes though, structurally. Unless he completely and utterly blows everytime he's on the court, but I don't think that would be the case.

Putnam
07-13-2010, 07:39 AM
I'll never understand this board's fascination with J.Jack.


Not many of us understand your's for Tinsley, either.

thewholefnshow31
07-13-2010, 08:23 AM
I have got to the point that as long as Stephenson does not self combust in training camp and preseason I say just give him the ball and let TJ back him up until AJ is fully healthy and ready to go.

Its not like we are going to make some major splash with trying to get guys to sign a one year deal with a major lockout looming. We are not going to sign someone the level of Farmar and be an impact player in the East. At beast we will be swept in the playoffs as the 8th seed.

We just keep wading in the sea of mediocrity at PG because we keep trying to put these band aids on a severed limb. Unless we make some big splash in a trade we are just going to get some average to below average PG that will be ok for one year and then be gone. He will do nothing to help this team.

I much rather live with the struggles of Stephenson for a year then watch some average PG waste time out there only to be gone the next year. It will just remind me of what went on with Nesterovic a few seasons ago.

count55
07-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Not many of us understand your's for Tinsley, either.

l'apostrophe?

cdash
07-13-2010, 08:54 AM
Not many of us understand your's for Tinsley, either.

I think the "student at Iowa State University" pretty much says it.

I tend to agree with him; we do romanticize Jack a little bit around here.

CRASH
07-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Now that Udoh is out for 4-6 months, any chance we can trade some kind of package for Monta Ellis? Would any of you like to have Monta?

BRushWithDeath
07-13-2010, 10:18 AM
This T.J Ford situation is so similar to the Tinsley situation w/o the off-court baggage, it's just disgusting


I don't think we'll see Ford in a Pacer game again.

Tinsley 2.0.

That was January 3rd. I wasn't quite right on the time frame as he did play in the month of February, which still baffles my mind, but you get the sentiment.

Sookie
07-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Well... if that be the case, then so be it. It's only for one year.

I would hope we would try to seriously see how Price and Stephenson can develop the coming season. They can be brought on carefully getting more minutes gradually during the season. They have to see the court though. Immediately giving Lance 30 minutes, and starting off learning the wrong things is not what I want though.

Lance does need to get some minutes though, structurally. Unless he completely and utterly blows everytime he's on the court, but I don't think that would be the case.

But then what will we do the next season. Figure out AJ and Stephenson aren't ready again, and sign another vet...vicious circle. Let's see what we have now.

My only issue though, is of course, my belief that Stephenson is not a point guard. (I mean really, couldn't play the point in college, apparently couldn't play the point in AAU..but he can play it as a pro...seriously? Being an NBA point is easier?)

So I do think we need another pg. But I want Lance to get time..he doesn't need to go through the same crap AJ went through last season, and Josh the year before. And I suppose we might as well "See" what Lance can do as a point, because a 6'5 PG would be nice. So going into the season with TJ/Lance/AJ would most likely mean AJ/Lance will end up with the lion share of the PG minutes. But I just feel as if we're setting the kid up to fail.

CableKC
07-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Now that Udoh is out for 4-6 months, any chance we can trade some kind of package for Monta Ellis? Would any of you like to have Monta?
I doubt that it changes anything on the Warriors side. But if Monta was available for an Expiring Contract+protected 1st round pick...I'd do it in a second. Heck, I'd even throw in BRush.

Ozwalt72
07-13-2010, 02:53 PM
My only issue though, is of course, my belief that Stephenson is not a point guard. (I mean really, couldn't play the point in college, apparently couldn't play the point in AAU..but he can play it as a pro...seriously? Being an NBA point is easier?)

So I do think we need another pg. But I want Lance to get time..he doesn't need to go through the same crap AJ went through last season, and Josh the year before. And I suppose we might as well "See" what Lance can do as a point, because a 6'5 PG would be nice. So going into the season with TJ/Lance/AJ would most likely mean AJ/Lance will end up with the lion share of the PG minutes. But I just feel as if we're setting the kid up to fail.

Different ≠ Easier

In the NBA, generally, you need a point that initiates the offense, and if nothing develops can look for his own or create. College is different. You need a guard in the spot that fits your team. You need a defender? You need someone to dribble up the court? Or a spot shooter for kickouts?

And sure, we'd like to see rookies get time. But with a young guy like Stephenson it needs to be controlled. Pick and choose who he matches up with. Let him see his limits as a player that way. As the season progresses, and if he proves deserving, increase his playing time by loosening your grip on his matchup. There have been rookies that have been ruined because they are thrown into the fire too quick.

Also, people are starting to romanticise the point guard position. You don't need a leader or a star athlete at the point guard position. What you do need is stability. The argument is made that it is the most important position on the floor, but that doesn't mean that you have to have the best TALENT at the spot. It's the same as any other position. You need something that plays to your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. For example, if you have three 3 point shooters in your lineup at the SG,SF,PF spots with a back to the basket center, a drive and kick point guard would be almost ideal. Another example, if you have a slasher at shooting guard, and a well rounded small forward, a bull at PF, and a center with nothing but putbacks and maybe a 15 footer in in his bag.....you'd probably benefit with a shooter at the point.

These two examples are the Pacers. One is with a hypothetical starting lineup of Point, Rush, Granger, Murphy and Hibbert and the other is Point, Dahntay, Dunleavy/George, Hansbrough and (any of Solo, Foster, Rolle).

At least that's kind of how I see it.

pacers74
07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I hope we try to pry Sessions away from Minnesota, now that they are going to sign Ridnour.

Unclebuck
07-13-2010, 03:36 PM
Also, people are starting to romanticise the point guard position. You don't need a leader or a star athlete at the point guard position. What you do need is stability. The argument is made that it is the most important position on the floor, but that doesn't mean that you have to have the best TALENT at the spot. It's the same as any other position. You need something that plays to your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. For example, if you have three 3 point shooters in your lineup at the SG,SF,PF spots with a back to the basket center, a drive and kick point guard would be almost ideal. Another example, if you have a slasher at shooting guard, and a well rounded small forward, a bull at PF, and a center with nothing but putbacks and maybe a 15 footer in in his bag.....you'd probably benefit with a shooter at the point.



I always say the point guard position is the most important position on a team unless you have Wade, Kobe, Lebron or a dynamic creator at either the small forward or shooting guard. Pacers don't have that type of player. Even if we assume Granger, George and Rush maximize their talent, they are not good ball handlers, they aren't creators for teammates, so we need a dynamic point guard. So IMO the point guard position is the most important position for the Pacers. It might not be for the Lakers or the Heat, but it is for the Pacers.

I could see a 15 game swing easy. With the right point guard, I could see this team winning 45 games, without a good point guard this team could win maybe 30 games.

If the pacers added Chris Paul to the team just as it is, I could see the Pacers winning at least 50 games, 50-55 games. Of course if they acquire Chris Paul, we'll lose Granger, but we would still be a lot better with Paul minus Granger than we are going to be with granger and minus Chris paul

Ozwalt72
07-13-2010, 03:47 PM
I always say the point guard position is the most important position on a team unless you have Wade, Kobe, Lebron or a dynamic creator at either the small forward or shooting guard. Pacers don't have that type of player. Even if we assume Granger, George and Rush maximize their talent, they are not good ball handlers, they aren't creators for teammates, so we need a dynamic point guard. So IMO the point guard position is the most important position for the Pacers. It might not be for the Lakers or the Heat, but it is for the Pacers.

I could see a 15 game swing easy. With the right point guard, I could see this team winning 45 games, without a good point guard this team could win maybe 30 games.


It is the biggest hole on the team. Improvement at the position will obviously be a bigger factor at that spot than it would at another.

How many "right" point guards are there?

Pacers2012
07-13-2010, 04:03 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

UPDATE: Looks like Ridnour may indeed sign with the Wolves, despite the current logjam.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports tweets on Tuesday that he's "close to accepting" the aforementioned four-year, $16-million offer.

If that's the case, and Sessions is indeed on the trade block now, as mentioned below, keep an eye on Indiana for him.

As we noted on Monday, the Pacers are still looking for a point guard and it'll likely come via a trade.

---

Last week, we wondered why free-agent PG Luke Ridnour had met with the Timberwolves.

After all, the team has Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions. It's possible Spaniard Ricky Rubio could play for the team in the near future, as well.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports provided some more clarity on the subject on Sunday.

He reports that GM David Kahn is "trying to unload [Sessions] to teams able to absorb his salary, league executives told Yahoo! Sports."

The plan would then be to sign Ridnour to an identical four-year, $16 million deal, according to Wojnarowski.

Wojnarowski also writes that Ridnour "has shown little interest" in Minnesota, so the team could also target Shaun Livingston, whom they've also shown interest in.

Speed
07-13-2010, 04:05 PM
Session would actually be a nice compliment to Lance. Sessions, if I remember right, is fast, but slight. Lance is like Deron Williams sized but even taller. So, nice complimentary possiblities maybe.

BornReady
07-13-2010, 04:09 PM
I feel like at this point in time, Sessions would be the best case scenario, and even with all these PGs taken, would be a very nice consolation prize.

pacergod2
07-13-2010, 04:10 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

UPDATE: Looks like Ridnour may indeed sign with the Wolves, despite the current logjam.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports tweets on Tuesday that he's "close to accepting" the aforementioned four-year, $16-million offer.

If that's the case, and Sessions is indeed on the trade block now, as mentioned below, keep an eye on Indiana for him.

As we noted on Monday, the Pacers are still looking for a point guard and it'll likely come via a trade.

---

Last week, we wondered why free-agent PG Luke Ridnour had met with the Timberwolves.

After all, the team has Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions. It's possible Spaniard Ricky Rubio could play for the team in the near future, as well.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports provided some more clarity on the subject on Sunday.

He reports that GM David Kahn is "trying to unload [Sessions] to teams able to absorb his salary, league executives told Yahoo! Sports."

The plan would then be to sign Ridnour to an identical four-year, $16 million deal, according to Wojnarowski.

Wojnarowski also writes that Ridnour "has shown little interest" in Minnesota, so the team could also target Shaun Livingston, whom they've also shown interest in.

This reeks of some sort of deal already being in place. Ridnour might be the one that gets traded as well. Minny may have signed Ridnour to put a team in need of a PG further into desperation. WTF is going on up in Minnesota?

count55
07-13-2010, 04:11 PM
This reeks of some sort of deal already being in place. Ridnour might be the one that gets traded as well. Minny may have signed Ridnour to put a team in need of a PG further into desperation. WTF is going on up in Minnesota?

Ridnour could not be traded by Minnesota until December 15th.

pacergod2
07-13-2010, 04:12 PM
Ridnour could not be traded by Minnesota until December 15th.

S&T. I didn't think the deal was official yet. Is it?