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View Full Version : What would you give up for Mike Conley?



AlexAustin
06-28-2010, 02:46 AM
With talk of OJ Mayo moving to PG and the addition of Greivis Vasquez, Memphis could be enticed to move him if offered the right deal. Here is your chance to play fantasy GM would you wanted him and what would you part with.

cdash
06-28-2010, 02:49 AM
Brandon Rush. Underachiever-for-Underachiever. I'd throw in a 2nd round pick if they pressed me.

joew8302
06-28-2010, 02:53 AM
To add on to Cdash's point, Granger, Hibbert, Hansbrough, and George are totally off limits. I would have Memphis pick a player for whats left and let them have that person for Conley. They could get an expiring, or a young guy like Rush.

Diamond Dave
06-28-2010, 02:59 AM
Jim O'Brien :devil:

But basically anything that didn't include Granger, Hibbert, George, or an unprotected 1st round pick. Now this isn't because I think so much of Conley, but of how little I think of the majority of our roster.

PacersPride
06-28-2010, 03:02 AM
To add on to Cdash's point, Granger, Hibbert, Hansbrough, and George are totally off limits. I would have Memphis pick a player for whats left and let them have that person for Conley. They could get an expiring, or a young guy like Rush.

an expiring wont work unless we take back a bad contract or add a filler. trading rush may come back to haunt us. the kid can play D, he just needs some time to mature. we have thrust him into the starting spot and he is not ready.

joew8302
06-28-2010, 03:04 AM
an expiring wont work unless we take back a bad contract or add a filler. trading rush may come back to haunt us. the kid can play D, he just needs some time to mature. we have thrust him into the starting spot and he is not ready.

Why would the expiring not work again?

Rush will be 25 by the time next season starts. The "give him time" stuff doesn't apply anymore.

BornReady
06-28-2010, 03:06 AM
id do rush for conley in a heartbeat

AlexAustin
06-28-2010, 03:10 AM
You guys can feel free to expand the deals to add other parts, But most Memphis fans I have talked to or have seen on other boards aren't fans of Rush but you never know the FO feels about him.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 03:14 AM
Dahntay Jones and Tyler Hansbrough for Mike Conley works money wise and would be an outstanding deal for us. But I doubt Memphis has any interest at all in Hansbrough.

PacersPride
06-28-2010, 03:18 AM
Why would the expiring not work again?

Rush will be 25 by the time next season starts. The "give him time" stuff doesn't apply anymore.

the salaries have to match. conley is still on his rook contract which is like 2 million maybe. unless memphis is under the cap, we have to match salary. correct me if im wrong, maybe conley makes more, i dont know.

ive always looked it like this. say we would have drafted rush when miller was 34-35. back when our team was elite. rush would be a guy off the bench for 4 years, we would not have expected him to start right away. if rush ever finds his jumpshot, and with time im certain he will, his defense and athletcism, combined with consistent shooting make him an above average shooting guard. also, trading rush to fill the pg position only creates a hole at sg.

who is going to play there, dunleavy coming off of injury.. or a rookie. this is rush's third year, and could be a breakout season. many on here are gonna regret dealing rush if that happens. im not 100% sure of that, but i expect him to have a good season.

during the George press conference he mentioned "50 feet behind us Hibbert, Rush, McBob are working their butts off"

if the kid has a work ethic than he is gonna be a good player, not great but good, and theres no reason to give up young players when we can acquire a pg via some other means.

i know where the pacer fans are coming from wanting rush dealt, but its gonna cost us i think in the long run.

CooperManning
06-28-2010, 03:32 AM
Dahntay Jones and Tyler Hansbrough for Mike Conley works money wise and would be an outstanding deal for us. But I doubt Memphis has any interest at all in Hansbrough.

We'd have to be sure that Conley is our longterm PG if we were to pull the trigger on that deal. Hansbrough would be more valuable coming off the bench than Conley. Also, it's harder to find an energetic big like Hansbrough than a standard backup PG.

Psyren
06-28-2010, 03:32 AM
Brandon Rush. Underachiever-for-Underachiever. I'd throw in a 2nd round pick if they pressed me.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

AlexAustin
06-28-2010, 03:33 AM
Dahntay Jones and Tyler Hansbrough for Mike Conley works money wise and would be an outstanding deal for us. But I doubt Memphis has any interest at all in Hansbrough.

I know they would like Tyler if he was 100%, Memphis is looking for big guys and he is from close to Memphis and when the Pacers where there this year he had something like 1,500 fans there.

BornReady
06-28-2010, 03:33 AM
Dahntay Jones and Tyler Hansbrough for Mike Conley works money wise and would be an outstanding deal for us. But I doubt Memphis has any interest at all in Hansbrough.

do you think Bird has any interest dealing Hansbrough?

pwee31
06-28-2010, 03:39 AM
I'd trade Rush for Conley but they just drafted Henry so not sure they would do that deal, especially if they plan on matching for Rudy Gay.

Are the Griz under the cap b/c I'd add Ford or Foster w/ Rush if they're willing to add some salary?

AlexAustin
06-28-2010, 04:05 AM
Are the Griz under the cap b/c I'd add Ford or Foster w/ Rush if they're willing to add some salary?

They live well under the cap, but would only eat money if the Pacers added something they wanted badly like Paul George and I don't see the Pacers doing that.

pacers74
06-28-2010, 04:33 AM
Memphis doesn't even have any bad contracts. There cap space for next summer is better than ours, so they wouldn't want any of our expiring contracts. The players we could probably deal are George(no), Hibbert(no), Rush(yes), D.Jones(yes), S.Jones(yes), Hansbrough(Probably), McRoberts(I would hate to see him go, but if the pushed for him, I guess), and Price(Only if we had too).
It would be hard for us to make a trade work financially without giving up our young talent. I would like Conley here, but it might take a third team to make the deal workout.

Hillman's 'Fro'
06-28-2010, 06:17 AM
I wonder what the deal is with Conley. I could care less that he's
from Indy. But I saw him play numerous times in HS and loved his
moxie, feel/instincts for the position and seemingly very high,
hoops-IQ.

Given his tremendous quickness, with the hands-off, defensive
rules in place, you'd think he'd be much more successful at the
NBA level.

So, for anyone who's seen him play for MEM a number of times (I
have barely seen him the last couple years), what gives ?

Is his shot just not consistent enough to force defenders to honor
it ? Is he too left-handed and unable to go right well enough to
make guys play him straight up ?

What is holding him back from being a higher level, NBA PG ?

vnzla81
06-28-2010, 06:34 AM
nothing, I don't think he is an starting PG

quinnthology
06-28-2010, 07:30 AM
You guys can feel free to expand the deals to add other parts, But most Memphis fans I have talked to or have seen on other boards aren't fans of Rush but you never know the FO feels about him.

This is a hilarious source.

sheppie33
06-28-2010, 09:20 AM
Nothing

Kegboy
06-28-2010, 09:20 AM
I've said it before. Go look at the numbers Mike put up the last couple months before you think we can get him cheap. And the Rush thing is pretty funny, maybe we can get a three-way going and they can get Chalmers too.

sheppie33
06-28-2010, 09:22 AM
If Larry could get the right PG, I'm sure he wouldnt hesitate to trade Hans

MillerTime
06-28-2010, 09:31 AM
Rush probably wouldnt be enough. We would have to most likely add in a 2nd rounder or some cash. Im surprised Conley has underacheived so badly. I expected a lot more from him coming out of college.

MLB007
06-28-2010, 10:29 AM
Conley is better than any of our pg's.
Doubt Rush would be enough.

Gamble1
06-28-2010, 10:35 AM
Rush probably wouldnt be enough. We would have to most likely add in a 2nd rounder or some cash. Im surprised Conley has underacheived so badly. I expected a lot more from him coming out of college.
You beat me to it.... I personally think it would have to be both cash and the second rounder. Maybe take that 3 million that we were going to spend for Lance Stephenson and give it up for Conley.

I think if I had a choice between Conley or Hill I would choose Hill especially if we could do a straight up Hill for Rush trade.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 12:33 PM
do you think Bird has any interest dealing Hansbrough?
Why wouldn't he?

plutarch07
06-28-2010, 12:34 PM
tj ford and rush for mike would be a godsend man would i be happy for if that happend

CableKC
06-28-2010, 12:41 PM
nothing, I don't think he is an starting PG
I'm thinking along your lines when it comes to the value of Conley. You have to wonder why the Grizzlies have continually been looking for a Starting PG over the last couple of seasons. I know that many of you are willing to throw BRush under the rug now that George is here to try to make a trade for a PG like Conley...but I still think that BRush is a valuable foundation Player for the future. I don't mind making a run for Conley....partly to see if a change in scenery would make a difference and the PR value here....but given my concern about whether Conley is really worth it or not...I wouldn't give up BRush for him.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm thinking along your lines when it comes to the value of Conley. You have to wonder why the Grizzlies have continually been looking for a Starting PG over the last couple of seasons. I know that many of you are willing to throw BRush under the rug now that George is here to try to make a trade for a PG like Conley...but I still think that BRush is a valuable foundation Player for the future. I don't mind making a run for Conley....partly to see if a change in scenery would make a difference and the PR value here....but given my concern about whether Conley is really worth it or not...I wouldn't give up BRush for him.
Which is why a D. Jones/Hansbrough for Conley deal makes so much sense for us. Even if he's nothing more than a bench player we're just giving up bench players at surplus positions. Right now, a bench PG is worth a lot more to us than a bench PF and SG. If Hansbrough were healthy, he'd be more valuable to Memphis than he would be to us. Just as Conley would be more valuable to us than he is to Memphis. Plus we can get out from under D. Jones' contract. I know D. Jones played in Memphis before but I don't know what they thought of him. If they liked him at all this is a great deal for both sides.

CableKC
06-28-2010, 01:15 PM
Which is why a D. Jones/Hansbrough for Conley deal makes so much sense for us. Even if he's nothing more than a bench player we're just giving up bench players at surplus positions. Right now, a bench PG is worth a lot more to us than a bench PF and SG. If Hansbrough were healthy, he'd be more valuable to Memphis than he would be to us. Just as Conley would be more valuable to us than he is to Memphis. Plus we can get out from under D. Jones' contract. I know D. Jones played in Memphis before but I don't know what they thought of him. If they liked him at all this is a great deal for both sides.
If Conley is a Bench PG...then why are we willing to trade for him? If we're going with the whole "let's see how he will do under a different System/Organization" approach...then I don't mind trying him out...but I don't want to give up too much for him...since ( for now ) he doesn't appear to be a Starting quality PG.

For now, I don't know what Hansbrough brings to the table.....so I don't know how much we are giving up to try out Conley. For now, if Hansbrough's value is comprable to BRush's trade value....then I wouldn't be willing to give up that much to get Conley.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 01:34 PM
For now, I don't know what Hansbrough brings to the table.....so I don't know how much we are giving up to try out Conley. For now, if Hansbrough's value is comprable to BRush's trade value....then I wouldn't be willing to give up that much to get Conley.

I don't think Hansbrough's value is close to as high Rush's.

And I think Conley can be a starter. As a 22 year old he started 80 games a season ago for a team that won 40 games in the Western Conference. 12 ppg, 5.3 ast, 1.4 stl, and just 2.1 t.o. while averaging 32 minutes per game is nothing to sneeze at. Memphis was a much better team last year and Conley was a big part of it. I'm saying even if Conley doesn't turn out to be better than he is right now, which I doubt, he's good enough to be worth Hansbrough and D. Jones.

joew8302
06-28-2010, 01:40 PM
I don't think Hansbrough's value is close to as high Rush's.

And I think Conley can be a starter. As a 22 year old he started 80 games a season ago for a team that won 40 games in the Western Conference. 12 ppg, 5.3 ast, 1.4 stl, and just 2.1 t.o. while averaging 32 minutes per game is nothing to sneeze at. Memphis was a much better team last year and Conley was a big part of it. I'm saying even if Conley doesn't turn out to be better than he is right now, which I doubt, he's good enough to be worth Hansbrough and D. Jones.

I disagree. Hansbrough is still a relative unknown, although in his short stints he did exhibit tenacity and rebounding. Rush has just exhibited he is an at best, average, run of the mill two guard with little offensive ability. I would think most teams would take Hansbrough over Rush given the choice.

BornReady
06-28-2010, 01:42 PM
I don't think Hansbrough's value is close to as high Rush's.

And I think Conley can be a starter. As a 22 year old he started 80 games a season ago for a team that won 40 games in the Western Conference. 12 ppg, 5.3 ast, 1.4 stl, and just 2.1 t.o. while averaging 32 minutes per game is nothing to sneeze at. Memphis was a much better team last year and Conley was a big part of it. I'm saying even if Conley doesn't turn out to be better than he is right now, which I doubt, he's good enough to be worth Hansbrough and D. Jones.

For the most part I agree- I just have a question though (not knocking on anything you said) would we find ourselves thin at the pf position if we trade Hansbrough? I'm guessing Murphy will be shopped too..

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 01:50 PM
For the most part I agree- I just have a question though (not knocking on anything you said) would we find ourselves thin at the pf position if we trade Hansbrough? I'm guessing Murphy will be shopped too..

You take Hansbrough and Murphy off this roster today and we're still deeper at PF than we are at PG. And if Murphy is moved I'd assume another PF would come back.

indyaway
06-28-2010, 01:50 PM
ive always looked it like this. say we would have drafted rush when miller was 34-35. back when our team was elite. rush would be a guy off the bench for 4 years, we would not have expected him to start right away.

We wouldn't have drafted a 4yr college senior if the expectation was that there were 3 to 4 yrs to groom them into a starter. 4yr college players are drafted because they're supposedly more NBA ready so that they can fill an immediate need in the roster. If you have a position that is solidly filled for a number of years, you draft younger with more potential and upside.

joeyd
06-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Conley for Rush. Upside potential is there, then maybe we get Oden cheap when he becomes a free agent and is he is healthy. Big IF, I know. But a healthy Oden with Conley? People might pay to see that and they might be worth seeing at that.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 02:23 PM
conley is still on his rook contract which is like 2 million maybe. correct me if im wrong, maybe conley makes more, i dont know.


Conley was the #4 pick in the 2007 draft. He makes twice the 2 mil, you mentioned, at 4.4 mil this year. You have been corrected. ;)

I'll also go on record saying I'm not overly interested in Conley. He was overrated coming out of college, and he came out too early as well. He hasn't progressed as much as he should have as a #4 pick. If you could get him for Foster's expiring, I wouldn't be adverse to it... I believe the salaries will match. I just don't see him as the long term answer to the Pacers PG problem, but I'd gamble on him for Foster's expiring.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2010, 02:37 PM
If Memphis would take Foster, then throw in Lorbek/Stanko as well. Memphis has done well with another Euro in Gasol. With Zach an expiring, Memphis might be interested in Lorbek to help out at PF in 2012. That way they get an expiring and a future player for Conley.

MLB007
06-28-2010, 04:16 PM
I don't think Hansbrough's value is close to as high Rush's.

And I think Conley can be a starter. As a 22 year old he started 80 games a season ago for a team that won 40 games in the Western Conference. 12 ppg, 5.3 ast, 1.4 stl, and just 2.1 t.o. while averaging 32 minutes per game is nothing to sneeze at. Memphis was a much better team last year and Conley was a big part of it. I'm saying even if Conley doesn't turn out to be better than he is right now, which I doubt, he's good enough to be worth Hansbrough and D. Jones.

People forget he was a freshman when he came out.

QuickRelease
06-28-2010, 07:33 PM
Why would the expiring not work again?

Rush will be 25 by the time next season starts. The "give him time" stuff doesn't apply anymore.So do you think what we see is what we get with Rush? That he won't get appreciably better?

joew8302
06-28-2010, 08:30 PM
So do you think what we see is what we get with Rush? That he won't get appreciably better?

Good question. Not that there aren't exceptions to this rule, but there are not many guys that get appreciably better after the age of 25 in the NBA. I would challenge anyone to name me five or six. I am sure Rush can become a smarter player and more savvy, but is his skillset going to improve a whole lot? I would say probably not.

Remember, when we drafted him he was more "seasoned and ready to go" than others. Now he has been in the league for two seasons and I would be willing to say you have close to a finished product.

MLB007
06-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Good question. Not that there aren't exceptions to this rule, but there are not many guys that get appreciably better after the age of 25 in the NBA. I would challenge anyone to name me five or six. I am sure Rush can become a smarter player and more savvy, but is his skillset going to improve a whole lot? I would say probably not.

Remember, when we drafted him he was more "seasoned and ready to go" than others. Now he has been in the league for two seasons and I would be willing to say you have close to a finished product.

Turn that 180 degrees and you got it. ;)

Brandon has the skills and the natural ability.
His problem is his where his head is at.
And that light can click on at any time.
or not.

MLB007
06-28-2010, 09:27 PM
Good question. Not that there aren't exceptions to this rule, but there are not many guys that get appreciably better after the age of 25 in the NBA. I would challenge anyone to name me five or six. I am sure Rush can become a smarter player and more savvy, but is his skillset going to improve a whole lot? I would say probably not.

Remember, when we drafted him he was more "seasoned and ready to go" than others. Now he has been in the league for two seasons and I would be willing to say you have close to a finished product.

I'm not going to waste time trying to prove it, but since a players "peak" is usually his late 20's, AND experience, AND years in the weight room = better player, I would guess MOST players are quite a bit better at 28 than they were at 24.

Ozwalt72
06-28-2010, 10:00 PM
If Memphis would take Foster, then throw in Lorbek/Stanko as well.

And pass up on having a 100% euro all-star front court in 2012 like my magic 8 ball has predicted? :eek:

The Stankin' Lorbek will happen. Nothing you can do will prevent it!

flox
06-28-2010, 10:20 PM
Good question. Not that there aren't exceptions to this rule, but there are not many guys that get appreciably better after the age of 25 in the NBA. I would challenge anyone to name me five or six. I am sure Rush can become a smarter player and more savvy, but is his skillset going to improve a whole lot? I would say probably not.

Bruce Bowen
Chauncey Billups
Michael Redd
Steve Nash
Manu Ginobili
Steven Jackson

joew8302
06-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Bruce Bowen
Chauncey Billups
Michael Redd
Steve Nash
Manu Ginobili
Steven Jackson


By the time Michael Redd was 23 he was shooting above 43% from 3, 46% from the field, 80% from the line and averaging 15 pts and 4 rebounds per game

When Jackson was 24 he was a key rotational player for the Spurs and helped them win a title.

Nash, Ginobli, and Billups are the exceptions that I have acknowledged in my post. Like I said, dramatic improvement after the age of 25 in the NBA is pretty darn rare and not a smart thing to bet on for a front office.

flox
06-28-2010, 11:04 PM
By the time Michael Redd was 23 he was shooting above 43% from 3, 46% from the field, 80% from the line and averaging 15 pts and 4 rebounds per game

When Jackson was 24 he was a key rotational player for the Spurs and helped them win a title.

Nash, Ginobli, and Billups are the exceptions that I have acknowledged in my post. Like I said, dramatic improvement after the age of 25 in the NBA is pretty darn rare and not a smart thing to bet on for a front office.

I'm sorry I didn't realize that you had a list of exceptions that had been acknowledged.

Jackson went from 11.8pts 2.3ast .317 3pt at 24 to 20.6pts 3.7ast .328 3pts at 32... ?

Redd went 21.7pts .350 3pt 4.9rbs 2.3 ast at 24-25 to later have a season at 26.7pts .382 3pt 3.7 rbs 2.3ast, also to have a season before that of 25.4pts .395 3pt 4.3 rbs 2.9 ast. Not to mention the season you had listed in your post was his 3rd season, in his 2nd he had 11.4 pts per game. 1.4 ast 3.3 rebounds. (2nd season)

Rush last season (2nd season) was 9.4pts, 1.4 ast 2.2 rbts at 42% shooting and .411 from three.

So he's a little worse than Redd career path arc wise but to say that he can't blow up is a bit of a stretch.

And I am one of the biggest Rush haters on this board- hate him with a passion. But that doesn't mean he still can't blow up and become good- I just don't think he will but he still has the time to do so.

joew8302
06-29-2010, 04:31 AM
I'm sorry I didn't realize that you had a list of exceptions that had been acknowledged.

Jackson went from 11.8pts 2.3ast .317 3pt at 24 to 20.6pts 3.7ast .328 3pts at 32... ?

Redd went 21.7pts .350 3pt 4.9rbs 2.3 ast at 24-25 to later have a season at 26.7pts .382 3pt 3.7 rbs 2.3ast, also to have a season before that of 25.4pts .395 3pt 4.3 rbs 2.9 ast. Not to mention the season you had listed in your post was his 3rd season, in his 2nd he had 11.4 pts per game. 1.4 ast 3.3 rebounds. (2nd season)

Rush last season (2nd season) was 9.4pts, 1.4 ast 2.2 rbts at 42% shooting and .411 from three.

So he's a little worse than Redd career path arc wise but to say that he can't blow up is a bit of a stretch.

And I am one of the biggest Rush haters on this board- hate him with a passion. But that doesn't mean he still can't blow up and become good- I just don't think he will but he still has the time to do so.

Umm I didn't have a list of exceptions, I acknowledged there were exceptions. What is so hard to comprehend about that? Just because there are exceptions to rules do not mean that the rules themselves are not good barometers. I didn't realize this was so hard to understand.

Jackson and Redd did not have their best season where I mentioned them, I am not sure you understood what I was trying to do. Both Jackson and Redd were established, good players before the age of 25 (the same age Brandon will be to start next season).

My original point was that it is extremely hard to go from where Brandon is at to a good player in the league after the age of 25. Like I acknowledged before (just so I don't get another list thrown at me) he could improve his court savy, awareness, things like that. But history shows that rapid improvement after the age of 25 just isn't normal. AGAIN IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, it just isn't likely.

Look at another list

Kobe- stud before age 25
Duncan- Stud before 25
Granger- stud before 25
Paul- stud before 25
Brandon Jennings- very good before 25
Eric Gordon- very good before 25


And the list goes on and on. Most players who will be or are very good are realized by the time they are 25. For every Steve Nash, David West, or Manu Ginobli there are 30 of the guys I have mentioned.

flox
06-29-2010, 02:19 PM
Umm I didn't have a list of exceptions, I acknowledged there were exceptions. What is so hard to comprehend about that? Just because there are exceptions to rules do not mean that the rules themselves are not good barometers. I didn't realize this was so hard to understand.
Like I acknowledged before (just so I don't get another list thrown at me) he could improve his court savy, awareness, things like that. But history shows that rapid improvement after the age of 25 just isn't normal. AGAIN IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, it just isn't likely.

Good question. Not that there aren't exceptions to this rule, but there are not many guys that get appreciably better after the age of 25 in the NBA. I would challenge anyone to name me five or six.

Sorry, my bad. Got confused. You claim there are exceptions but don't tell me who they are, then when I give you a list you call three of them exceptions.






Look at another list

Kobe- stud before age 25
Duncan- Stud before 25
Granger- stud before 25
Paul- stud before 25
Brandon Jennings- very good before 25
Eric Gordon- very good before 25


And the list goes on and on. Most players who will be or are very good are realized by the time they are 25. For every Steve Nash, David West, or Manu Ginobli there are 30 of the guys I have mentioned.

True. So we are arguing statistically that it is unlikely. Acceptable. Possible for him to improve? Yes. Especially when some people don't even hit their peak till 28. So who knows.



Jackson and Redd did not have their best season where I mentioned them, I am not sure you understood what I was trying to do. Both Jackson and Redd were established, good players before the age of 25 (the same age Brandon will be to start next season).

Not really. Redd was still a second round pick and didn't a very big contract. I'd say if he was as established as you claimed then he would have gotten a much bigger deal. The season after the title Jackson signed for a 2 year, 1 million dollar contract per year deal. I can't believe it, but that is what the salary sites are showing me.



My original point was that it is extremely hard to go from where Brandon is at to a good player in the league after the age of 25.


Rush will be 25 by the time next season starts. The "give him time" stuff doesn't apply anymore.

I think I took the two ways you said that difference. I apologize.

However, there are a bunch of metrics that state that Rush is already an above average defender. I don't know why, and he's still weak on a few defending metrics, but overall he ranks pretty highly. I'd say that he's already an accomplished defender and shooter from three, which is more than I care to admit to give for him, but it's hard to argue against that set of evidence.

He's at least a borderline roleplayer entering the 25th year of age, which means he can explode like Jacks or Redd, who were also considered role players at the time. I'd say the give him time stuff still applies, but the sand is quickly draining from the hourglass.

jeffg-body
06-30-2010, 12:23 AM
I'd look at trying to do a straight Rush for Conley first. If they balked on that I would offer a smaller expiring like Ford to go along with it. If they balk on it then I would start looking elsewhere for potential trade partners with similar deals. I would hesitate to use any of our future 1st round picks in the next few years. Maybe 2nd rounders as sweeteners.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 01:51 AM
Sorry, my bad. Got confused. You claim there are exceptions but don't tell me who they are, then when I give you a list you call three of them exceptions.





True. So we are arguing statistically that it is unlikely. Acceptable. Possible for him to improve? Yes. Especially when some people don't even hit their peak till 28. So who knows.



Not really. Redd was still a second round pick and didn't a very big contract. I'd say if he was as established as you claimed then he would have gotten a much bigger deal. The season after the title Jackson signed for a 2 year, 1 million dollar contract per year deal. I can't believe it, but that is what the salary sites are showing me.




I think I took the two ways you said that difference. I apologize.

However, there are a bunch of metrics that state that Rush is already an above average defender. I don't know why, and he's still weak on a few defending metrics, but overall he ranks pretty highly. I'd say that he's already an accomplished defender and shooter from three, which is more than I care to admit to give for him, but it's hard to argue against that set of evidence.

He's at least a borderline roleplayer entering the 25th year of age, which means he can explode like Jacks or Redd, who were also considered role players at the time. I'd say the give him time stuff still applies, but the sand is quickly draining from the hourglass.

Thanks for clearing that up. I don't think we are miles apart in our beliefs about Rush after reading your posts.

I like Rush's defense, no doubt about it. He is an above average defender at the two. Is he Bruce Bowen? No, not really that close. But he is very solid on defense.

Brandon's offense is far below average at this point. He absolutely could make marginal improvements, and as bad of a ft shooter as he was he could make major headway there. My point is that he is 25. His ceiling is not that high. At best what can we expect from him right now? 11 pts, 4 rebs 41% from 3 43% from the field? I am saying that is about his ceiling, to expect much more than that at this stage of the game is pretty unrealistic IMO. That is what my original point was.

Rush has some trade value, but not a ton. He may be attractive to a team like San Antonio as a defensive specialist, but they aren't going to sell the farm to get him. In other words while I wouldn't sell him for a bag of chips I certainly wouldn't hesitate to move him if I felt we could get a good, young pg.

flox
06-30-2010, 09:43 AM
My point is that he is 25. His ceiling is not that high. At best what can we expect from him right now? 11 pts, 4 rebs 41% from 3 43% from the field? I am saying that is about his ceiling, to expect much more than that at this stage of the game is pretty unrealistic IMO. That is what my original point was.

Hmm..i'm not quite there with agreement yet. I can see him easily being a 15ppg scorer as long as he takes more threes per game- if he ever took Danny level 3pa (5-7 per game), I think his numbers will be much higher. He's only taking 3.2 threes a game so far, and that's one of his strongest suits.

MLB007
06-30-2010, 10:26 AM
Like I said, dramatic improvement after the age of 25 in the NBA is pretty darn rare and not a smart thing to bet on for a front office.

Yes, but you are wrong. :D

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 11:05 AM
I would give up Solo, McRoberts, and/or Price for Conley. I still have high hopes for Rush, but I believe he's more a product of the current system than just a "below average SG". Right now, we have a log jam of wing players, so someone gots to go. Honestly, I'm kinda torn between Dunleavy/D. Jones/Rush on who I would to give up. I like D. Jones defense and relentless attack on the basket (3rd in FTA). I like Rush's "solid" play although he doesn't put big numbers (Top 10 shotblocker/rebounder/3PT% among SG). I believe that Dunleavy will make an excellent 6th Man.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 11:20 AM
I'd look at trying to do a straight Rush for Conley first.


Can't do a straight up trade due to salaries not matching.

Conley... 4.4 mil
Rush...... 2.5 mil

count55
06-30-2010, 11:24 AM
Can't do a straight up trade due to salaries not matching.

Conley... 4.4 mil
Rush...... 2.5 mil

It doesn't change the basics of the answer, but Conley is scheduled to make $4.9mm, while Rush will only make $2.1mm.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 11:40 AM
I would give up Solo, McRoberts, and/or Price for Conley.


If the Pacers had Conley, would you be interested in that offer from Memphis?

If I understand the CBA properly that trades have to be within 25% plus $100,000, this trade would not qualify even with all 3 Pacers players in the trade.

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 11:48 AM
It doesn't change the basics of the answer, but Conley is scheduled to make $4.9mm, while Rush will only make $2.1mm.


Thanks, I stand corrected. :)

Please check my previous post for accuracy. Thanks.

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 11:56 AM
If the Pacers had Conley, would you be interested in that offer from Memphis?

If I understand the CBA properly that trades have to be within 25% plus $100,000, this trade would not qualify even with all 3 Pacers players in the trade.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't check the salaries, plus I just threw those players' names out there as people I would be willing to give up. To reword it differently, I would keep Rush before trading him for Conley

Justin Tyme
06-30-2010, 12:55 PM
I'm not going to lie.

To reword it differently, I would keep Rush before trading him for Conley


I appreciate that!

I understand.