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PacersPride
06-26-2010, 10:50 PM
Big IF, but if no moves are made the roster as is, could it win the central, bron leaves for NY or Miami. Cavs, Pistons, Bucks, Bulls are good but not great, and the pacers relatively healthy could make some strides. i mean we did lose Foster, Dunleavy, Hansbrough for the entire season. if Dunleavy returns to form why could this team not win 40+ and compete in the central.

PG: Ford, Price, Jones (may have to play point)
SG: Rush, Dunleavy, Stephenson
SF: Granger, George
PF: Murphy, Hansbrough, McBob
C: Hibbert, Foster, Solo, Rolle

obviously we need to upgrade at pg and we have several versatile wings, along with a deep frontcourt. I dont think its unreasonable to believe this team could win 40+ and make a run at the playoffs.

maybe make a deal at the deadline involving some expirings acquiring a point gaurd if not sooner, and suddenly this team could contend.

only negative might be JOB would get extended another year, but Bird has said before a coach should only be around for bout 3 years, cant see him lasting more than 5 unless we really go deep into the playoffs.

a healthy squad could begin to fill some seats in Conseco, and a trade or two turn this team into a darkhorse.

The East is not overall that strong. we could match up against a team like Orlando with the deep front court.

is 40+ wins and contending for the Central division out of the question if Bron goes elsewhere?

mildlysane
06-26-2010, 11:01 PM
Not if he goes to Chicago....

joew8302
06-26-2010, 11:10 PM
Big IF, but if no moves are made the roster as is, could it win the central, bron leaves for NY or Miami. Cavs, Pistons, Bucks, Bulls are good but not great, and the pacers relatively healthy could make some strides. i mean we did lose Foster, Dunleavy, Hansbrough for the entire season. if Dunleavy returns to form why could this team not win 40+ and compete in the central.

PG: Ford, Price, Jones (may have to play point)
SG: Rush, Dunleavy, Stephenson
SF: Granger, George
PF: Murphy, Hansbrough, McBob
C: Hibbert, Foster, Solo, Rolle

obviously we need to upgrade at pg and we have several versatile wings, along with a deep frontcourt. I dont think its unreasonable to believe this team could win 40+ and make a run at the playoffs.

maybe make a deal at the deadline involving some expirings acquiring a point gaurd if not sooner, and suddenly this team could contend.

only negative might be JOB would get extended another year, but Bird has said before a coach should only be around for bout 3 years, cant see him lasting more than 5 unless we really go deep into the playoffs.

a healthy squad could begin to fill some seats in Conseco, and a trade or two turn this team into a darkhorse.

The East is not overall that strong. we could match up against a team like Orlando with the deep front court.

is 40+ wins and contending for the Central division out of the question if Bron goes elsewhere?

Honestly, yes, winning the Central is out of the question even if Cleveland loses Lebron. I mean we have George and Hansbrough inserted, but unless something major is done we are still a below average team. As constructed look at our lineup;

PG- Ford- terrible
SG- Rush- well below avg shooting guard
SF- Granger- top 7 SG in the league
PF- Murphy- average at best PF when it is all said and done
C- Hibbert- average

I mean we are clearly above average at one position and well below average at the other two. Our bench of Price, Hansbrough, McBob, George, and others is nothing to write home about either.

Milwaukee and Chicago are clearly better than us even if Lebron goes to NY.

Swish
06-26-2010, 11:17 PM
Whoa. Win the Central? Wasn't this same exact team terrible last year?

crunk-juice
06-26-2010, 11:26 PM
no way. it would be a miracle to pass .500 honestly.

Psyren
06-26-2010, 11:28 PM
That's also operating under the assumption that Price makes the team because he doesn't have a guaranteed contract.

However, I'm not sure how bad his injury is.

PacersPride
06-26-2010, 11:28 PM
if healthy, i think the pacers can win 40 games. Dun, Foster, Hansbrough could add alot to this team, with continued improvment from Hibbert and hopefully Rush.

how come Dahntay Jones is not considered more as an option at pg. he has a pg frame, and he only needs to setup the offense, ie distribute to granger, Dunleavy, Rush, George, Murphy.

defensively im confident Jones can gaurd point gaurds. as addressed in another thread, maybe we are not as desparate to acquire a pg as it appears. TJ is not horrible, he just needs to pass quicker to the above mentioned. and Jones offers defense at the point gaurd position. at least he should since that was our purpose of bringing him here.

i see no reason why the team as is cannot compete for a 6th seed in the playoffs when healthy.

point is.. lets not be hasty and acquire a pg who is not going to be the leader of this team for the next 5 years. Dun, Foster, Hansbrough and improvement in Hibbert and Rush in addition to scoring off the bench with George could net this team a 6th seed in the playoffs.

and with expirings next offseason we could be agressive with other teams players.




Honestly, yes, winning the Central is out of the question even if Cleveland loses Lebron. I mean we have George and Hansbrough inserted, but unless something major is done we are still a below average team. As constructed look at our lineup;

PG- Ford- terrible
SG- Rush- well below avg shooting guard
SF- Granger- top 7 SG in the league
PF- Murphy- average at best PF when it is all said and done
C- Hibbert- average

I mean we are clearly above average at one position and well below average at the other two. Our bench of Price, Hansbrough, McBob, George, and others is nothing to write home about either.

Milwaukee and Chicago are clearly better than us even if Lebron goes to NY.

PacersPride
06-26-2010, 11:32 PM
Whoa. Win the Central? Wasn't this same exact team terrible last year?

but were not the same exact team. Dunleavy, Foster, Hansbrough missed the entire season. i expect Hibbert and Rush to improve. and we added scoring off the bench in George.

i remember we beat some really good teams last year. i just dont think its all doom and gloom if we dont acquire a point guard.

secondly, i see no reason why jones cannot backup TJ and split minutes. he is not going to play the wing much with Rush, Dun, George getting the majority of minutes.

Jones might not be a pure point gaurd, but i trust he can gaurd them.

maragin
06-26-2010, 11:32 PM
I lack the sunshine to properly contribute to this thread.

PacersPride
06-26-2010, 11:33 PM
That's also operating under the assumption that Price makes the team because he doesn't have a guaranteed contract.

However, I'm not sure how bad his injury is.

true.. 4-6 months is what ive heard. bring in a guy like livingston or even resign watson.

and again, whats wrong with Jones playing point? he will not get time on the wing.

joew8302
06-26-2010, 11:34 PM
PP

Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit and optimism, it is great. I and others are just being realistic here. It ain't happening. Although I would love to be wrong, I don't think I will be. With our current roster and good health we are a 35 win team. If everyone stays healthy and if everyone has a great year we MAY be a 41-42 win team, but that is it.

joew8302
06-26-2010, 11:36 PM
Nothing is wrong with Jones playing point, he is just not a point guard. It is the equivalent of Granger playing center.

Passing and ball handeling are not Jones strengths, nor is shooting. Dhantay is an iso player and would be quite frankly horrid trying to run pick and roll.

PacersPride
06-26-2010, 11:44 PM
no disrepect but i disagree. a healthy Dun, Foster, and Hansbrough in addition to Hibbert and Rush improvement gives this team a very deep albeit not superiorly talented roster. i remember the season before last this team seemed to compete every game, we lost a helluva alot of close games at the buzzer if i recall correctly. so what changed last year?

Dun was out, Foster was out, Hansbrough our top draft pick was out, and too much was put on Granger, hence the injuries. Hibbert will show improvement and if Rush is ever gonna have a breakout season this is going to be it. add some firepower in George off the bench and i see no reason this team cannot win 40.

maybe i am overvaluing Dun's ability to make the offense run more efficiently, or Fosters leadership, and the hustle, energy, toughness, intelligence, rebounding that Hansbrough gives us.

these guys really contributed next to nothing last year and they are key role players.




PP
Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit and optimism, it is great. I and others are just being realistic here. It ain't happening. Although I would love to be wrong, I don't think I will be. With our current roster and good health we are a 35 win team. If everyone stays healthy and if everyone has a great year we MAY be a 41-42 win team, but that is it.

beast23
06-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Wow. I've heard of sunshining, but this gives the word a whole new meaning.

Without additonal players, this team will probably not win more than 35 games. And, if we have a few injuries during the season, they won't be lucky enough to close the season on a winning streak like we saw at the end of the previous season. So we may not even see 30 wins.

Just because we have 7 players playing PF/C, that does not make it DEEP. Having decent starters and QUALITY players off the bench would make it deep. We do not have that.

To be honest, if we don't make at least one significant trade using one of our expiring contracts to get a decent player, preferably a PG, before the season starts, the worst possible thing for the team would be for them to somehow be in the 8th position or near it as the February trade deadline approaches.

I say that because Bird has announced that his primary objective is to make the playoffs... that is always his objective. You put Bird in a position that the playoffs appear to be within reach as the trade deadline approaches, he may be tempted to leave the roster as is instead of wisely using some of his expiring contracts to acquire one or two players.

That would mean that we would rely totally on being able to use our cap space to get good players next summer. I believe we can improve our roster in this manner, but will probably not make significant strides since the better free agents might not choose to come to Indy.

So be a sunshiner if you must, but I believe that a roster left intact as the season opens is just about the worst of all possible scenarios.

PacersPride
06-26-2010, 11:50 PM
Nothing is wrong with Jones playing point, he is just not a point guard. It is the equivalent of Granger playing center.

Passing and ball handeling are not Jones strengths, nor is shooting. Dhantay is an iso player and would be quite frankly horrid trying to run pick and roll.


hell the lakers dont even use a traditional point gaurd in their offense. if jones cannot dribble the ball up the floor and pass it to Granger, Dun, Rush, George to initiate the offense then he worthless.

im not asking Jones to break down the defense like Rondo, shoot lights out, or pass like Deron Williams. just bring the ball up the court and intiate offense, and PLAY SOLID DEFENSE which i know he is capable of. in fact that is why i suggested it, cause i believe Jones can D up any pg in the league, at least he should be able to since he was signed as a defensive specialist.

let TJ and Jones split the pg assignment. our strength this year will be the wings and deep front court.

all im saying is, if we dont make a deal for a pg, we still may be a competitive team to watch, much like 2 seasons ago. im hoping we do land Collison, but i dont wannna see us get fleeced because were desparate to replace Ford.

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 12:02 AM
Sunshining?? maybe if i said win 50. i hope a move is made, but as the team stands i dont think were as bad as some teams in the east.

i hope we can acquire a point gaurd, but giving up Rush to do it seems a bit premature as some have suggested.

the focus needs to be moving Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy, and Foster; if we cannot find a PG/PF for those players we should keep the roster as is. excluding an obvious no-brainer deal of course.

i guess im looking long term and like the Granger, Rush, George trio.



Wow. I've heard of sunshining, but this gives the word a whole new meaning.

Without additonal players, this team will probably not win more than 35 games. And, if we have a few injuries during the season, they won't be lucky enough to close the season on a winning streak like we saw at the end of the previous season. So we may not even see 30 wins.

Just because we have 7 players playing PF/C, that does not make it DEEP. Having decent starters and QUALITY players off the bench would make it deep. We do not have that.

To be honest, if we don't make at least one significant trade using one of our expiring contracts to get a decent player, preferably a PG, before the season starts, the worst possible thing for the team would be for them to somehow be in the 8th position or near it as the February trade deadline approaches.

I say that because Bird has announced that his primary objective is to make the playoffs... that is always his objective. You put Bird in a position that the playoffs appear to be within reach as the trade deadline approaches, he may be tempted to leave the roster as is instead of wisely using some of his expiring contracts to acquire one or two players.

That would mean that we would rely totally on being able to use our cap space to get good players next summer. I believe we can improve our roster in this manner, but will probably not make significant strides since the better free agents might not choose to come to Indy.

So be a sunshiner if you must, but I believe that a roster left intact as the season opens is just about the worst of all possible scenarios.

BornReady
06-27-2010, 12:06 AM
lol dont worry guys
we WILL have more pg options come the start of this season
and im not sunshining, im actually being realistic

Swish
06-27-2010, 12:08 AM
I guess in the perfect world where Dun, Foster, and Hans all play all season and don't get injured, we could be better. It probably won't go down that way, though.

pizza guy
06-27-2010, 01:01 AM
Winning the Central? No.
Winning 40 games? Possible
Sneaking into the playoffs? Possible.

I would like to see Hans get healthy, Rush "put it together," and P.G exceed expectations. We'll probably actually see one of those three things, so it'll be a challenge to get the 6th seed (that's putting it nicely). Making a deal to get a real point guard in here, whether before the season or at the deadline - that would get us in the playoffs a little easier. And using Murphy or Ford (or both :please: ) in that deal would really help.

We're currently looking at another season floating around .500. A couple games under or over with a shot at the playoffs. But with the pieces we have in expiring contracts, we should be able to make a move that makes this a competitive team.

--pizza

joeyd
06-27-2010, 01:01 AM
My outlook hasn't changed much from this time last year. Basically the same team. If healthy, it could challenge for the 7th or 8th seed. Getting Foster and Hansbrough back adds much-needed aggressiveness and offensive boards, which were probably key to losing at least 5-7 games last year. Obviously my optimism isn't shared by the pundits. I think Sporting News rated us next-to-last for the 2010-2011 season.

Eleazar
06-27-2010, 03:07 AM
Honestly with the players we have, we could win the central. The problem though isn't the players, but the coach.

PG:
Ford is the best PG on the team. The problem with him is less his skill, and more of how he fits within the system. It just isn't a system that he fits with. If JOB decided to change his system to fit more around the kind of PG Ford is not only would it improve how Ford played, but it would improve the team. Price is hard to tell with his injury. After that we have offensively possibly the best main on the team for this position in Dunleavy. If he brought the ball up as the PG it would greatly improve this team. His problem is defense, we would need someone else on the floor to guard the other teams PG, Jones.

SG:
We have some nice pieces here, but nothing we can count on. Rush can be good, but is too inconsistent to really trust, and George is still an unknown. Jones is the only one we can really know what to expect. Really all we have hear as of right now are good back-ups to borderline starters. On a better team they would probably appear to be better players, but on a bad team they don't preform as well.

SF:
Defiantly our strongest position with Granger. Then Rush, George, and Dun can all play SF, and would all be decent back-ups.

PF:
Murphy is a SF playing PF, and that is the problem. Right now the best PF on this team is McBob. That may not be saying much, but if he got major minutes at PF this team would instantly improve. It may not be a lot by itself, but if O'Brien started to play the true PF's here and changed his system to fit the players it would create a big improvement in the team. Hansbrough is still an unknown. I was completely unimpressed with his play last year, but it is a knew year. Foster, if healthy, is on a decline, but can still give quality minutes at this position.

C:
Our second strongest position as far as starters go with Hibbert. He should be better, and is becoming the presence we need underneath. Like Ford he really doesn't fit the system that O'Brien likes. He is slow, and mechanical.


So really at three positions we have players who are at the very least average starters, one position that has borderline starters, and another where we really only have back-ups. Honestly, if used properly that will get you a low playoffs spot. The problem is O'Brien doesn't focus enough on defense, and doesn't have a system in place that fits his players. This has caused a decent player in TJ to look like a ****ty player, Granger's shooting percentage has suffered from taking too many 3's and the team being too reliant on him, and Hibbert not being able to play to his full ability. The problem is those are the three main guys to this team; your PG, your star wing, and your "dominate" big man. If you have quality players at those positions, you should be able to more or less plug players into the other two positions and be a decent team, not championship but decent. Yet this team has struggles because the coach and the players do not fit well together.

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 03:27 AM
agree completely with your comments on JOB. was thinking this earlier, the guy is so hellbent on playing his type of system it is detrimental to the team. i wish Carlisle was still coaching, he would be a perfect coach for this team. good coaches adjust to the players, and it doesnt appear that JOB is willing to do that at all. in some ways he is ruining this team by telling them to play loyola marymount type of basketball.

curious, what did not impress you with Hansbrough?



Honestly with the players we have, we could win the central. The problem though isn't the players, but the coach.

PG:
Ford is the best PG on the team. The problem with him is less his skill, and more of how he fits within the system. It just isn't a system that he fits with. If JOB decided to change his system to fit more around the kind of PG Ford is not only would it improve how Ford played, but it would improve the team. Price is hard to tell with his injury. After that we have offensively possibly the best main on the team for this position in Dunleavy. If he brought the ball up as the PG it would greatly improve this team. His problem is defense, we would need someone else on the floor to guard the other teams PG, Jones.

SG:
We have some nice pieces here, but nothing we can count on. Rush can be good, but is too inconsistent to really trust, and George is still an unknown. Jones is the only one we can really know what to expect. Really all we have hear as of right now are good back-ups to borderline starters. On a better team they would probably appear to be better players, but on a bad team they don't preform as well.

SF:
Defiantly our strongest position with Granger. Then Rush, George, and Dun can all play SF, and would all be decent back-ups.

PF:
Murphy is a SF playing PF, and that is the problem. Right now the best PF on this team is McBob. That may not be saying much, but if he got major minutes at PF this team would instantly improve. It may not be a lot by itself, but if O'Brien started to play the true PF's here and changed his system to fit the players it would create a big improvement in the team. Hansbrough is still an unknown. I was completely unimpressed with his play last year, but it is a knew year. Foster, if healthy, is on a decline, but can still give quality minutes at this position.

C:
Our second strongest position as far as starters go with Hibbert. He should be better, and is becoming the presence we need underneath. Like Ford he really doesn't fit the system that O'Brien likes. He is slow, and mechanical.


So really at three positions we have players who are at the very least average starters, one position that has borderline starters, and another where we really only have back-ups. Honestly, if used properly that will get you a low playoffs spot. The problem is O'Brien doesn't focus enough on defense, and doesn't have a system in place that fits his players. This has caused a decent player in TJ to look like a ****ty player, Granger's shooting percentage has suffered from taking too many 3's and the team being too reliant on him, and Hibbert not being able to play to his full ability. The problem is those are the three main guys to this team; your PG, your star wing, and your "dominate" big man. If you have quality players at those positions, you should be able to more or less plug players into the other two positions and be a decent team, not championship but decent. Yet this team has struggles because the coach and the players do not fit well together.

joew8302
06-27-2010, 04:07 AM
Honestly with the players we have, we could win the central. The problem though isn't the players, but the coach.

PG:
Ford is the best PG on the team. The problem with him is less his skill, and more of how he fits within the system. It just isn't a system that he fits with. If JOB decided to change his system to fit more around the kind of PG Ford is not only would it improve how Ford played, but it would improve the team. Price is hard to tell with his injury. After that we have offensively possibly the best main on the team for this position in Dunleavy. If he brought the ball up as the PG it would greatly improve this team. His problem is defense, we would need someone else on the floor to guard the other teams PG, Jones.

SG:
We have some nice pieces here, but nothing we can count on. Rush can be good, but is too inconsistent to really trust, and George is still an unknown. Jones is the only one we can really know what to expect. Really all we have hear as of right now are good back-ups to borderline starters. On a better team they would probably appear to be better players, but on a bad team they don't preform as well.

SF:
Defiantly our strongest position with Granger. Then Rush, George, and Dun can all play SF, and would all be decent back-ups.

PF:
Murphy is a SF playing PF, and that is the problem. Right now the best PF on this team is McBob. That may not be saying much, but if he got major minutes at PF this team would instantly improve. It may not be a lot by itself, but if O'Brien started to play the true PF's here and changed his system to fit the players it would create a big improvement in the team. Hansbrough is still an unknown. I was completely unimpressed with his play last year, but it is a knew year. Foster, if healthy, is on a decline, but can still give quality minutes at this position.

C:
Our second strongest position as far as starters go with Hibbert. He should be better, and is becoming the presence we need underneath. Like Ford he really doesn't fit the system that O'Brien likes. He is slow, and mechanical.


So really at three positions we have players who are at the very least average starters, one position that has borderline starters, and another where we really only have back-ups. Honestly, if used properly that will get you a low playoffs spot. The problem is O'Brien doesn't focus enough on defense, and doesn't have a system in place that fits his players. This has caused a decent player in TJ to look like a ****ty player, Granger's shooting percentage has suffered from taking too many 3's and the team being too reliant on him, and Hibbert not being able to play to his full ability. The problem is those are the three main guys to this team; your PG, your star wing, and your "dominate" big man. If you have quality players at those positions, you should be able to more or less plug players into the other two positions and be a decent team, not championship but decent. Yet this team has struggles because the coach and the players do not fit well together.

So you are pinning our problems entirely on O'Brien? That is absurd. As Jeff Van Gundy says, it is a players league, and it is a make or miss league. Ford's problem is not O'Brien. Ford drives the ball constantly, puts himself in bad positions and throws up ill advised shots. That is on TJ Ford, not Jim O'Brien.

And what is up with everyone thinking anyone on the team can just be a point guard? In one thread it was Dhantay Jones, now it is Mike Dunleavy. Guys, if finding a quality pg to run a team were this easy then no one would ever be in need. You need to be able to run pick and roll, defend it, handle the ball against the quickest defenders, make smart decisions, pass well and defend the position. That is a lot of stuff to ask which makes finding a pg extremely tough. If it were as easy as moving a two guard or forward over we would have solved this issue a long time ago. Unfortunately it is not that easy.

And no, players don't go from starters on good teams to garbage on bad teams like you suggest about Jones and Rush. Sure, being on a good team may be able to mask certain weaknesses, but the two guard position is one of the major reasons why we are a bad team. The reason they don't preform well isn't because of the team they are on, it is because at this point in time they are not very good players.

You also really think Murphy is a SF? Seriously? I would love to see Murphy match up against the Paul Pierces of the world on defense. Do you have any idea how bad we would get tourched by the Carmelo Anthony's? Even someone like Loul Deng would kill Troy Murphy. Murphy is a terrible defender at any position, but he would get badly exposed at SF.

woowoo
06-27-2010, 04:35 AM
I would really like to see this team stay healthy all season for a change. And if they "upgrade" the PG position I think this team can be competitive. Not win the division competitive but I think they can be a .500+ type team...

Really depends upon the PG situation IMO..

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 05:13 AM
im not sure who suggested dunleavy run the point, thats not a logical solution. my suggestion was jones backing up TJ for the following reasons:

1) he will not get much PT at sg with Rush, Dunleavy, George, and possibly Stephenson.
2) he has the frame of pg/combo gaurd
3) im not stating he is our answer at the point, but that he can play it, and if he wants PT its his best option this season
4) can he not dribble the ball up the court and pass it to the wings to initiate the offense?? i dont think that is too much to ask. im not asking him to be john stockton, but simply backup TJ until Price can play. dribbling and passing is something any shooting gaurd from duke should be able to do.
5) the main reason i am comfortable suggesting this is Jones defense. half the game is defense, and Jones can defend point gaurds in this league. I would feel comfortable with him on Rondo, Nelson, Rose, Wall, Jennings etc. his specialty is defense.

in summary, let him defend the point gaurd, and simply dribble and pass the ball, not per se orchestrate the offense.

in regard to Murphy as a SF, i think what the poster was referrring to was Murphy is a PF who plays like a SF. which is absolutely correct. i dont think he was suggesting playing Murphy at the SF, at least i hope not.

Jones is capable of splitting PT with TJ at 24 minutes a game. if the other team wants to trap him, im sure he can advance the ball up the court via the pass. now if jones could not defend the opposing PG's i would not have suggested this.






And what is up with everyone thinking anyone on the team can just be a point guard? In one thread it was Dhantay Jones, now it is Mike Dunleavy. Guys, if finding a quality pg to run a team were this easy then no one would ever be in need. You need to be able to run pick and roll, defend it, handle the ball against the quickest defenders, make smart decisions, pass well and defend the position. That is a lot of stuff to ask which makes finding a pg extremely tough. If it were as easy as moving a two guard or forward over we would have solved this issue a long time ago. Unfortunately it is not that easy.


You also really think Murphy is a SF? Seriously? I would love to see Murphy match up against the Paul Pierces of the world on defense. Do you have any idea how bad we would get tourched by the Carmelo Anthony's? Even someone like Loul Deng would kill Troy Murphy. Murphy is a terrible defender at any position, but he would get badly exposed at SF.

pacers74
06-27-2010, 05:41 AM
If Ford is our starting PG we could be in trouble. I like him, but he doesn't fit here. Price is out 4-6 months. Will he even make the final roster? Rush as our starting SG is laughable. You don't know when he will show up, and when he wil be timid Brandon and not show up . Most of us are happy with George, but he hasn't palyed a game yet, so we don't know what he will bring. At SF we don't even need to talk about Granger 25 pts per game, enough said. Dunleavy will never be like he was before he was injured. PF is another issue Murphy is a stat hog who will get his numbers but not help the team. I think foster has fallen off too. He is 33. He can be effective but not like he was a few years ago. Hansbrough is a mystery. He could be fine next year, or he could be done. McRoberts should improve even more next year, but will JOB give him enough minutes. Hibbert is still a work in progress and should improve even more this year. He could be the key to this team.
With the current lineup we might crack 40 wins, but probably won't make the playoffs. I don't like it anyway when a team with a losing record makes the playoffs, so unless we win 42 or more games next season I don't want to make the playoffs.

kester99
06-27-2010, 05:47 AM
D. Jones' handles are not good. He also has a tendency to be a black hole, possesion-wise....if he has the ball, the likelihood that he will over-dribble or make an ill-advised attempt to penetrate into nonexistent lanes has been sufficiently demonstrated, IMO.

If he is any sort of option for us in the coming season at point, we are in trouble, and 35 wins will be a pipe dream.

On the bright side, we are never going to go with him at point....someone will be obtained who can actually run an offense. It may be temp filler, a la Jack or Watson....heck, it might be Jack or Watson...but playing Dahntay at point has even less upside than playing Marquise at point did.

Magic P
06-27-2010, 06:12 AM
If Ford is our starting PG we could be in trouble. I like him, but he doesn't fit here. Price is out 4-6 months. Will he even make the final roster? Rush as our starting SG is laughable. You don't know when he will show up, and when he wil be timid Brandon and not show up . Most of us are happy with George, but he hasn't palyed a game yet, so we don't know what he will bring. At SF we don't even need to talk about Granger 25 pts per game, enough said. Dunleavy will never be like he was before he was injured. PF is another issue Murphy is a stat hog who will get his numbers but not help the team. I think foster has fallen off too. He is 33. He can be effective but not like he was a few years ago. Hansbrough is a mystery. He could be fine next year, or he could be done. McRoberts should improve even more next year, but will JOB give him enough minutes. Hibbert is still a work in progress and should improve even more this year. He could be the key to this team.
With the current lineup we might crack 40 wins, but probably won't make the playoffs. I don't like it anyway when a team with a losing record makes the playoffs, so unless we win 42 or more games next season I don't want to make the playoffs.

I disagree, making the playoffs with a losing record could be a blessing in disguise. Playoff experience is very important and if we could get some type of experience while having a losing record that could go a long way in helping us when we really do start to become winners. I would like to see how Granger plays in the playoffs as the leader and best player on the team.

Mr_Smith
06-27-2010, 10:46 AM
I see another season of 35-40 (maybe worse) wins and missing the playoffs based on the current roster.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2010, 12:06 PM
and again, whats wrong with Jones playing point?


Don't mean to rain on your parade, but this has already been discussed and put to rest months ago. Same with Dun being PG.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2010, 12:16 PM
I think Sporting News rated us next-to-last for the 2010-2011 season.


Who's ranked below the Pacers, Detroit?

SMosley21
06-27-2010, 12:35 PM
but were not the same exact team. Dunleavy, Foster, Hansbrough missed the entire season.

Dunleavy played 67 games. Hansbrough played 29 games. Foster played 16 games.

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 04:44 PM
If Ford is our starting PG we could be in trouble. I like him, but he doesn't fit here. Price is out 4-6 months. Will he even make the final roster? Rush as our starting SG is laughable. You don't know when he will show up, and when he wil be timid Brandon and not show up . Most of us are happy with George, but he hasn't palyed a game yet, so we don't know what he will bring. At SF we don't even need to talk about Granger 25 pts per game, enough said. Dunleavy will never be like he was before he was injured. PF is another issue Murphy is a stat hog who will get his numbers but not help the team. I think foster has fallen off too. He is 33. He can be effective but not like he was a few years ago. Hansbrough is a mystery. He could be fine next year, or he could be done. McRoberts should improve even more next year, but will JOB give him enough minutes. Hibbert is still a work in progress and should improve even more this year. He could be the key to this team.
With the current lineup we might crack 40 wins, but probably won't make the playoffs. I don't like it anyway when a team with a losing record makes the playoffs, so unless we win 42 or more games next season I don't want to make the playoffs.

excellent synopsis with many valid points. Rush at sg is not laughable, at least he can defend. is hansbrough's career really in jeapordy?? i guess im under the assumption Hansbrough will be fine.

with competition at each position, esp SG, PF Rush and Murphy will have no choice to step up their game. i agree, would rather not make the playoffs either, but considering this team wins despite having a lock at a top 5 pick, im hoping were at least competitive and fun to watch.

whats Hansbrough's true status, if that kid's career is really in limbo.. :censored::censored::censored:

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 04:54 PM
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but this has already been discussed and put to rest months ago. Same with Dun being PG.

my parade was rained on a long time ago, no worries there. i respectfully disagree with most of the comments on here about D. Jones. sure he is not the answer at point, but if he can defend the pg's in this league with sucess, thats sufficient for me backing up TJ.

ChristianDudley
06-27-2010, 07:50 PM
Fire O'Brien and make Ford a non-blackhole on offense and then get back to me later lol.

Eleazar
06-28-2010, 01:34 AM
So you are pinning our problems entirely on O'Brien? That is absurd. As Jeff Van Gundy says, it is a players league, and it is a make or miss league. Ford's problem is not O'Brien. Ford drives the ball constantly, puts himself in bad positions and throws up ill advised shots. That is on TJ Ford, not Jim O'Brien.

And what is up with everyone thinking anyone on the team can just be a point guard? In one thread it was Dhantay Jones, now it is Mike Dunleavy. Guys, if finding a quality pg to run a team were this easy then no one would ever be in need. You need to be able to run pick and roll, defend it, handle the ball against the quickest defenders, make smart decisions, pass well and defend the position. That is a lot of stuff to ask which makes finding a pg extremely tough. If it were as easy as moving a two guard or forward over we would have solved this issue a long time ago. Unfortunately it is not that easy.

And no, players don't go from starters on good teams to garbage on bad teams like you suggest about Jones and Rush. Sure, being on a good team may be able to mask certain weaknesses, but the two guard position is one of the major reasons why we are a bad team. The reason they don't preform well isn't because of the team they are on, it is because at this point in time they are not very good players.

You also really think Murphy is a SF? Seriously? I would love to see Murphy match up against the Paul Pierces of the world on defense. Do you have any idea how bad we would get tourched by the Carmelo Anthony's? Even someone like Loul Deng would kill Troy Murphy. Murphy is a terrible defender at any position, but he would get badly exposed at SF.

No I'm not pinning all of the teams problems on O'Brien. I'm just saying that with the right coach this team would have the talent in the current central division if Lebron leaves. I still don't think the team would win more than 45-47 games, and would in no way be talented enough to compete in the playoffs.

The thing about PG's is that PG's of similar talent as Ford tend to fit better in different systems. They don't have the skill to overcome a bad match, but within the right system they can excel.

The idea of Dunleavy play the point position is not a new idea, and has been thrown around for as long as he has been on the Pacers. I believe there were times before his injury that he in fact did play the point position. I was never trying to suggest that Dunleavy would be a quality point player, but he would defiantly be an acceptable back-up.

I don't know who you were arguing about SG's, but I'm pretty sure I said the same thing as you. we don't have anyone who is really a quality starter, and they may APPEAR to be better on a better team than they really are for the exact reason you pointed out.

That is exactly Murphy's problem he is a SF in a PF's body. He can't realistically play the SF position because he would be demolished by all competition, but he can play like a SF at the PF position. So when he is on the floor it is no different than having a SF playing the PF position.

BRushWithDeath
06-28-2010, 03:18 AM
The current Pacer roster wouldn't win 20 games.

They do not currently have a PG. Ford will not play again for us. AJ can't walk.

PacersPride
06-28-2010, 03:23 AM
The current Pacer roster wouldn't win 20 games.

They do not currently have a PG. Ford will not play again for us. AJ can't walk.

i would bet pacer tickets on that statement. healthy, this team will win 35 im certain.

as is i could see 28-42 wins this season.

pacers74
06-28-2010, 04:02 AM
Our current lineup is:

PG: Ford/Price(injured)
SG: Rush/George/Jones
SF: Granger/Dunleavy
PF: Murphy/Hansbrough(still trying to get healthy)/McRoberts
C: Hibbert/Foster/Jones

That is the same lineup as last year minus Watson and Head and adding George. The bench could be better if Hansbrough and Price are healthy. If Stephenson and Rolle make the team we will have added depth. If we are forced to play with Ford at the point than I am worried about our offense. I don't really want Murphy here either, but even if Hansbrough is healthy Murphy would stil need to start just because of his experience. With this current lineup I would give us 30-40 wins next year and somewhere between the 10th and the 14th pick in the lottery.

oz_pacer
06-28-2010, 04:29 AM
at least draft day will be exciting next year if we stink again plus we have expirings hopefully we can sign a player if we hang on to them so it's not all doom and gloom....

Brad8888
06-28-2010, 07:45 AM
With our current coach, if we get all of our players healthy, it would surprse me if our record is any better than 37-45. If, as always seems to be the case, we have health issues, especially on the interior, and no play from our young rebounders, our threes might get us 34-48 or so.

Different coach who maximizes the talent actually available on the roster, probably 1st year 40-42 if not healthy, 45-37 if healthy. Ford is a better pg than he is allowed to show in the O'B way. After developing the young guys for a year, this roster could be in the 50+ win territory with a good coach (Byron Scott is still available, isn't he?).

Putnam
06-28-2010, 08:17 AM
My outlook hasn't changed much from this time last year. Basically the same team.

Be careful saying that. The same players aren't the same team as time passes.

Some guys are improving and some are declining. Foster, much as I like him, hasn't got much left. Even if he is healthy and able to play, he won't be as good as in the past. Other guys will be better. I think the preponderance of change from last year will be improvement if, as you say, Hansbrough is healthy, Dunleavy can do something, Hibbert plays 35+ minutes a game and Granger stays on the floor for 82 games.


As to the OP, it is too soon to think in terms of standing pat with this roster.


.

pianoman
06-28-2010, 08:24 AM
Keep in mind, In Golden State Mike Dunleavy ran the point at times. Although it wouldn't work in all situations, he might be able to come in and run the point for a few minutes. Again, not ideal but just a thought..

count55
06-28-2010, 09:45 AM
Hibbert plays 35+ minutes a game

I am not hopeful about Hibbert ever being able to play that many minutes. Even in college, Roy never averaged more than 26.4 minutes per game. In fact, over the last 34 games last season, Roy played 918 minutes, compared to the 894 minutes he played in 34 games as a senior. Over the last 37 games last year, he played 990 minutes vs. the 975 minutes he played in 37 games as a junior.

My expectation is that Roy will max out at about 30 minutes a game during his career, owing to a combination of three factors: conditioning issues, foul issues, and matchup problems. The first two he should (hopefully) be able to overcome to a degree, but the third will probably be an issue throughout his career, just as it was with Smits (who never averaged more than 30 minutes a night).

Putnam
06-28-2010, 10:15 AM
Good call, count.

Let me change it to, "Hibbert being able to play optimum minutes"


.

Unclebuck
06-28-2010, 10:28 AM
There are so many ifs involved. I am assuming for sake of discussion that all players are back -

But:

if Foster can play 70 games of 15-20 minutes per.

If Tyler can play around 70 games at between 20-25 minutes per

If Rush can play the whole season close to the way he plays in March

if Roy can continue to improve.

If the pacers find a stop gap type point guard. Watson, Jack - someone who can hold the ship down for 1 season and play like they each did in March

If Dunleavy can get back to what he was before the injury (maybe not in stats, but in his level of play.

if the team chemistry is pretty good and if the players don't quit on the coach.

I could see the Pacers winning 42 maybe 43 games.

(

DrFife
06-28-2010, 11:21 AM
There are so many ifs involved. I am assuming for sake of discussion that all players are back -

But:

if Foster can play 70 games of 15-20 minutes per.

If Tyler can play around 70 games at between 20-25 minutes per

If Rush can play the whole season close to the way he plays in March

if Roy can continue to improve.

If the pacers find a stop gap type point guard. Watson, Jack - someone who can hold the ship down for 1 season and play like they each did in March

If Dunleavy can get back to what he was before the injury (maybe not in stats, but in his level of play.

if the team chemistry is pretty good and if the players don't quit on the coach.

I could see the Pacers winning 42 maybe 43 games.

(

And if fortune strikes on the sunniest of days and we acquire Chris Paul (for expirings & future picks?) without giving up our core ... and a traded but reasonably healthy Foster (or Dunleavy) gets bought out at the end of February and returns to us for a playoff run? Then how many?

In other words, what has to happen (semi-realistically) for the best season imaginable to occur? And how good might that be??

thewholefnshow31
06-28-2010, 03:21 PM
I just cannot share the same optimism. The best PG on the team is a black hole that takes horrible shots and passes at the worst possible times. He is not going to be able to run our offense efficiently. Then we have AJ who has a bum knee and who knows if he will ever be any where close to what he was.

Brandon is a very good defender, but he is so inconsistent offensively. To me he does not fit our system. JOB loves Murphy becuase he stretches the court which should allow the PG, SG, and SF to attack the basket. Rush just does not seem aggressive enough to really attack the basket. Dunleavy's problems last year just seemed more mental then physical. His basketball IQ which made him such a good player seemed to drop. Can George move to the SG?

The SF position is our strongest position as long as Granger is healthy.

PF has some big holes as well. I fully expect and want Murphy moved by the trade deadline. So that leaves us with McBob, Hansbrough, and Foster. Foster is up there and age and is falling apart. Who knows with Hansbrough. McBob showed some signs last season, but can he do that for an entire season?

Hibbert and Solo are our centers and Hibbert has been great for us. He has improved every year.

So outside of SF and C we are far from set. There are so many question marks with this team that no way can I feel really confident that they will win the division if Lebron is gone. To much has to go right for that to happen.

All I really expect to see is the trade of our expiring contracts and the development of George.

Day-V
06-28-2010, 03:23 PM
I imagine us going 61-21. It won't happen, but I can imagine it.