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View Full Version : If Chris Paul is available... do the pacers have the pieces?



Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 12:55 PM
This isn't a trade proposal really, just curious what people's thoughts are. Hopefully this is ok to be on the main forum where more people will see it.

I never felt like this was even a remote possibility until after this draft, but I wonder if a big "upside" guy like Paul George might tip the scale. Perhaps a deal centered around George and Hibbert, Future firsts, and maybe a couple of our other young pieces.

The only reason I think this might even be possible is because of our wealth of expiring contracts, and their appeal to a team that would probably be looking at a full rebuild if they traded Paul. Especially a team that might be looking to cut payroll to eventually sell the team.

We are in a position that we could take on Paul, Okafur, And James Posey's contracts with our expirings. Is there any other team in the league that could do this? Are we in a somewhat unique position here?

The idea of teaming up Granger and Paul is pretty exciting, and the other big contracts we would be getting would all be solid vet contributers, as opposed to just being dead weight contracts.

Thoughts?

pig norton
06-26-2010, 01:00 PM
I don't think we have the ability to trade for Paul, but if we do, we'd have to give up Danny.

Gamble1
06-26-2010, 01:00 PM
We are in a position that we could take on Paul, Okafur, And James Posey's contracts with our expirings. Is there any other team in the league that could do this? Are we in a somewhat unique position here?

The idea of teaming up Granger and Paul is pretty exciting, and the other big contracts we would be getting would all be solid vet contributers, as opposed to just being dead weight contracts.

Thoughts?
I think they would want Granger in with the deal along with 2 future first. I can't see how NO deals Paul but if they do they have to get a all star back for him.

Edit: PiG got to it first but I agree.

CooperManning
06-26-2010, 01:03 PM
We have no shot at Paul, sadly.

Magic P
06-26-2010, 01:05 PM
If we could get Paul without giving up Granger or George i would do something gay to Larry Bird.

woowoo
06-26-2010, 01:06 PM
I would like to have him, but I would not give up the ranch to get him. Maybe a couple of the young guys and a first... maybe an expiring contract.

CP has been hurt a little too often for my taste....

imawhat
06-26-2010, 01:07 PM
If Paul is tradeable, then we definitely have the pieces. The only reason he gets moved is financial. They can take a future first, rights to Lorbek, an expiring and filleR. Heck, I'd give 2-3 expirings and take back Posey/Okafor to get Paul.

idioteque
06-26-2010, 01:08 PM
Any trade involving Granger would be tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs for us. We could probably do it, but I don't see a point unless Granger is not involved.

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 01:09 PM
I don't think we have the ability to trade for Paul, but if we do, we'd have to give up Danny.

I think the only way it makes sense is if we are teaming up Granger and Paul.

If NO is truly looking to rebuild and cut salary, they might not want Granger's contract anyway. I think they may be looking to sell.

Gamble1
06-26-2010, 01:12 PM
I think the only way it makes sense is if we are teaming up Granger and Paul.
IT all depends on what you think of Paul George. Is he Granger or better and can you wait for him to develop like Granger.

One thing is for sure Paul makes average players look good.

Peck
06-26-2010, 01:13 PM
I am still operating under the assumption that we have no chance in hell of getting Chris Paul.

However with Shin wanting to dump salary and is not worried about winning in the near future I could see him maybe biting at some of our expirings.

I posted this trade idea in another thread and I still think it would be the best that we could offer (without throwing in Hibbert or Granger). Now the great caveate to this is that under no normal circumstance would any sane owner or G.M. go for this. However if they are wanting to sell the team and shed salary then this may be the type of trade they would look at as this gives them a decent young cheap player, a first round pick and two big expirings and takes an albatross contract off of thier hands.

BTW, this does work per ESPN's trade checker.

Troy Murphy
T.J. Ford
Brandon Rush
1st round pick
2nd round pick

to New Orleans for

Chris Paul
Omeka Okafor

You could also still throw in a McBob or Tyler with that to sweeten the deal. Or if they demanded it you could exchange Roy for Brandon, yea for Chris Paul you would have to be willing to do that.

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 01:22 PM
I am still operating under the assumption that we have no chance in hell of getting Chris Paul.

However with Shin wanting to dump salary and is not worried about winning in the near future I could see him maybe biting at some of our expirings.

I posted this trade idea in another thread and I still think it would be the best that we could offer (without throwing in Hibbert or Granger). Now the great caveate to this is that under no normal circumstance would any sane owner or G.M. go for this. However if they are wanting to sell the team and shed salary then this may be the type of trade they would look at as this gives them a decent young cheap player, a first round pick and two big expirings and takes an albatross contract off of thier hands.

BTW, this does work per ESPN's trade checker.

Troy Murphy
T.J. Ford
Brandon Rush
1st round pick
2nd round pick

to New Orleans for

Chris Paul
Omeka Okafor

You could also still throw in a McBob or Tyler with that to sweeten the deal. Or if they demanded it you could exchange Roy for Brandon, yea for Chris Paul you would have to be willing to do that.


We have enough expirings to take on Posey too. Hell if they are truly insane, we could even take on David West. We could eliminate all of their long term salary in one fell swoop.

My thinking is, I don't know if there is another team in the league that could do this. Everyone else cleared space for free agency this year, and we are the one team with a ton of contracts that expire next year.

In fantasy land... if they threw in David West, I would throw every single available asset we have except Granger. We could trade for NO's entire veteran core + Granger. Thats an instant title contender.

How serious are these guys about cutting salary? If they are, they need to be talking to us.

woowoo
06-26-2010, 01:31 PM
We have enough expirings to take on Posey too. Hell if they are truly insane, we could even take on David West. We could eliminate all of their long term salary in one fell swoop.

My thinking is, I don't know if there is another team in the league that could do this. Everyone else cleared space for free agency this year, and we are the one team with a ton of contracts that expire next year.

In fantasy land... if they threw in David West, I would throw every single available asset we have except Granger. We could trade for NO's entire veteran core + Granger. Thats an instant title contender.

How serious are these guys about cutting salary? If they are, they need to be talking to us.

Did anyone watch that FA special last night on ESPN? The GM they had on brought up some good points about this years FA class and the upcoming ones. The next CBA will be "very different" and some teams that are getting ready to take on "huge" contracts may be in for a big world of financial hurt. Because he luxury tax is expected to double and maybe even triple per dollar.

He said the Pacers were in "fantastic" shape heading into next year because all of their expiring contracts. He stated that this year is a great FA year but in the future the teams may regret signing all these max players.

For this reason I think the Pacers will hold onto at least 2 of their expiring contracts, and see what happens with the CBA next season.

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 01:32 PM
Did anyone watch that FA special last night on ESPN? The GM they had on brought up some good points about this years FA class and the upcoming ones. The next CBA will be "very different" and some teams that are getting ready to take on "huge" contracts may be in for a big world of financial hurt. Because he luxury tax is expected to double and maybe even triple per dollar.

He said the Pacers were in "fantastic" shape heading into next year because all of their expiring contracts. He stated that this year is a great FA year but in the future the teams may regret signing all these max players.

For this reason I think the Pacers will hold onto at least 2 of their expiring contracts, and see what happens with the CBA next season.

If you can add Chris Paul and keep Granger though you have to do it, contracts be damned. Thats gonna pay for itself in a big way in the long run.

woowoo
06-26-2010, 01:37 PM
If you can add Chris Paul and keep Granger though you have to do it, contracts be damned. Thats gonna pay for itself in a big way in the long run.

I'm glad you are not running the team..... :D

DrFife
06-26-2010, 01:43 PM
BTW, this does work per ESPN's trade checker.

Troy Murphy
T.J. Ford
Brandon Rush
1st round pick
2nd round pick

to New Orleans for

Chris Paul
Omeka Okafor

You could also still throw in a McBob or Tyler with that to sweeten the deal.

Gov. Mitch should give Eli Lilly a tax incentive to cover the costs of this transaction, because it would do more for the libidos of male and female Pacer fans than any drug currently on the market. Talk about a happy banana! :bdance: :D

Gamble1
06-26-2010, 01:46 PM
I think it would take 2 first round picks to land him.

Hicks
06-26-2010, 02:11 PM
You'd think we'd have no chance, but as Peck's talking about, if we could offer them a lot of financial relief within 12 months, and we're talking both Paul AND Okafor's contracts, AND we throw in a young prospect (like Rush) AND a future 1st round pick, considering the motivation for even entertaining trading Paul to begin with, that just might get their attention in a serious way.

Going off of the 09-10 salaries, sending them Murphy, Ford, and Rush would/should be close enough for the CBA to take on Paul and Okafor, while adding about $3mm to our cap and of course then subtracting as much from theirs, which should also appeal to them.

Then add in a future 1st pick from our end (which will save us a chunk of that $3mm when that draft arrives and we don't have to pay for that player).

They just might go for that. If it's really all about the $$$, the only way to top our deal is to offer more/better young prospects along with an equal amount of salary savings, or offer expiring contracts of more talented players.

d_c
06-26-2010, 02:16 PM
They just might go for that. If it's really all about the $$$, the only way to top our deal is to offer more/better young prospects along with an equal amount of salary savings, or offer expiring contracts of more talented players.

I doubt it's going to be just about $$$ the way you just described because then Chris Paul wouldn't have that much more value than guys (with undesirable contracts to boot) like Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette.

MLB007
06-26-2010, 02:17 PM
If Paul is tradeable, then we definitely have the pieces. The only reason he gets moved is financial. They can take a future first, rights to Lorbek, an expiring and filleR. Heck, I'd give 2-3 expirings and take back Posey/Okafor to get Paul.

Dream on.
Trading him would not be for financial reasons. It would be because of Collison being there and a lot cheaper. They can get another all star PLUS for Paul and improve their team instead of having two very good point guards.
We have the pieces, but it's going to take a lot more than you suggest. ;)

Day-V
06-26-2010, 02:19 PM
We have no shot at Paul, sadly.

I'm not so sure I fully agree with this. I think their ownership and front office is dumb enough to let him go for practically nothing.


If we were to trade for him, it's no more draft picks for a year or 2. We'd still get to keep Granger, though. If moving him is strictly a financial issue, then the last thing they'd want is someone coming in who makes the same amount of money (pretty much) as CP3, and worse off he's nothing going to sell as many tickets.

McKeyFan
06-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Talk about a happy banana! :bdance: :D

See post #5.

Merz
06-26-2010, 02:59 PM
If the Orlando rumors are half way true (though I seriously doubt they are), I'm 100% confident the Pacers could offer a better deal than Nelson and Carter.

jeffg-body
06-26-2010, 03:09 PM
I am pretty sure this is a pipe dream, but I would love a trade scenario where we could keep Danny, George and Hibbert. Everyone else could be part of the trade. If we had to absorb Okafor and Posey why the heck not.

d_c
06-26-2010, 03:15 PM
I am pretty sure this is a pipe dream, but I would love a trade scenario where we could keep Danny, George and Hibbert. Everyone else could be part of the trade. If we had to absorb Okafor and Posey why the heck not.

Even considering the fact that you would be taking on Okafor, I have a hard time seeing someone like Chris Paul being traded as a cap dump. Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette with their undesirable contracts were traded as cap dumps with relative ease.

It's hard for me to believe that the difference between Stephen Jackson and Chris Paul is Brandon Rush + a 1st round pick.

McKeyFan
06-26-2010, 03:16 PM
I would offer Granger (our best player) and Hibbert (my favorite player and our second best) for Chris Paul.

Not that they need those pieces if in fact they need salary reduction. My point being, we need a franchise player to build around. If there is ANY scenario to obtain Paul, we do it, then reboot, redeal, turn in all seven scrabble letters for new ones—whatever analogy you like.

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 03:39 PM
Even considering the fact that you would be taking on Okafor, I have a hard time seeing someone like Chris Paul being traded as a cap dump. Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette with their undesirable contracts were traded as cap dumps with relative ease.

It's hard for me to believe that the difference between Stephen Jackson and Chris Paul is Brandon Rush + a 1st round pick.

I think this is correct. However would you say something like Hibbert + George + Stephenson, 2 future firsts, and taking on the contracts of Okafor and Posey would be a bit more in the ballpark?

If Im New Orleans, I would be pretty happy cutting all that salary and rolling forward with a Collison/Stephenson/Paul/West/Hibbert core. And if they really want to cut salary, we can throw in Hansbrough and Foster for West. :D

We can help them get rid of every long term contract on that roster if they like.

d_c
06-26-2010, 03:50 PM
I think this is correct. However would you say something like Hibbert + George + Stephenson, 2 future firsts, and taking on the contracts of Okafor and Posey would be a bit more in the ballpark?

If Im New Orleans, I would be pretty happy cutting all that salary and rolling forward with a Collison/Stephenson/Paul/West/Hibbert core. And if they really want to cut salary, we can throw in Hansbrough and Foster for West. :D

We can help them get rid of every long term contract on that roster if they like.

The Hornets will and should ask for an all-star talent in return for Chris Paul.

They have new ownership coming in and I don't think they would want to turn off their fanbase by trading their best player and one of the best players in the league, especially if they're not getting premium level talent in return.

FWIW, a team like OKC could offer Russell Westbrook, Green and/or Harden and picks (they have more future firsts, I think). That's a more compelling offer because Westbrook is a premium or near premium talent. A team like NJ could offer Harris and Derrick Favors, just as examples.

QuickRelease
06-26-2010, 04:37 PM
If we could get Paul without giving up Granger or George i would do something gay to Larry Bird.
http://www.docdave.org/docdave/basket/juliuslarry/content/Larrybird.jpg.jpeg

joew8302
06-26-2010, 05:23 PM
For the practical purposes of this thread if we were to get Paul we would have to give up Granger, anyone who honestly does not believe this is insane. Add to Granger we would probably need to throw in a few other pieces as well.

I mean if Shinn dumps Paul purely for cap relief I don't think the Hornets will be in New Orleans much longer. The ONLY way for Shinn to justify trading Paul is to get good talent and young talent back in return. Granger being from New Orleans would also help sell tickets and he is cheaper than CP3.

In short, yes we could have the pieces to get Paul if he was available, but with the obvious asking price should we go that route? That is another discussion.

NappyRootz
06-26-2010, 05:33 PM
I think they would want Granger in with the deal along with 2 future first. I can't see how NO deals Paul but if they do they have to get a all star back for him.

Edit: PiG got to it first but I agree.

I think the biggest thing for them is acquiring low price talent.

Believe it or not, I think a deal that they would jump at is:

Hibbert
Hansbrough
George
Murphy
Ford

for

Paul
Okafor


Thats a deal that I think we would have to pass on. It takes us right back to no salary cap room........leaves us without young talent up front and removes a piece with big potential in George.

I would trade Hibbert and the expirings reluctantly but I'd do it...........and Id probbaly include Rush as well..........but Hans and George would be two guys I'd keep.

joew8302
06-26-2010, 05:37 PM
I think the biggest thing for them is acquiring low price talent.

Believe it or not, I think a deal that they would jump at is:

Hibbert
Hansbrough
George
Murphy
Ford

for

Paul
Okafor


Thats a deal that I think we would have to pass on. It takes us right back to no salary cap room........leaves us without young talent up front and removes a piece with big potential in George.

I would trade Hibbert and the expirings reluctantly but I'd do it...........and Id probbaly include Rush as well..........but Hans and George would be two guys I'd keep.

You would keep Hans and George if Paul was on the table? Umm wow. If that first trade was presented and Larry turned it down I would be furious.

NappyRootz
06-26-2010, 06:10 PM
You would keep Hans and George if Paul was on the table? Umm wow. If that first trade was presented and Larry turned it down I would be furious.

It would be atough call but Okafor is a mess. His contrcat is terrible and his play is average and you have to wonder about his health teh next four years. In thatdeal we lose both Hibbert and Hansbrough and Murphy and all cap space so our other bigs would be Foster, Jones and McBob............thats pretty ugly and certainly not competitive.

On top of that we lose George who might be a future All Star player and certainly an upgrabe over Rush and Dahntay.

So yo have a maxed out roster for the next four years........no depth and no real NBA starters at the 2 and 4 spots.

I love Chris Paul but he wont be happy playing in Indy on a 46 win team and losing in teh round 1 every year with no money to improve.

Thats why Okafor and Collison works so much better. You still have plenty of money and you get to keep George, Hibbert and Hansbrough........which are our lat three #1 picks.

So would you trade 3 #1s, $15mm per year of cap space, and Darren Collison for Chris Paul ??

I wouldn't.

johndozark
06-26-2010, 06:12 PM
Let's take it for granted that we would like to get C. Paul and that N.O. is looking for a way to save money on Paul's salary.

Let's start with who we would most like to see gone, and see how we could package them so that N.O. would bite.

My list of players I would most like to see gone: (1) Ford, (2) Murphy, (3) S. Jones.

My list of players that I think it would not much hurt us to lose: (4) D. Jones (if we are keeping Rush), (5) Foster, (6) Dunleavy

My list of players that I think have more potential than we have yet seen, but could be spared if necessary: (7) Watson (sign and trade, although I would like to keep him for his maturity), (8) Head (he would be higher on my list if not for his injury history), (9) McRoberts, (10 Hansbrough, (11) Rush (last resort, and only if we keep D. Jones).

Maybe more later.

MLB007
06-26-2010, 06:19 PM
The Hornets will and should ask for an all-star talent in return for Chris Paul.

They have new ownership coming in and I don't think they would want to turn off their fanbase by trading their best player and one of the best players in the league, especially if they're not getting premium level talent in return.

FWIW, a team like OKC could offer Russell Westbrook, Green and/or Harden and picks (they have more future firsts, I think). That's a more compelling offer because Westbrook is a premium or near premium talent. A team like NJ could offer Harris and Derrick Favors, just as examples.

They aren't dumping Paul, they would be using him to get OTHER positions filled because they've got Collison (ROOKIE contract) and needs at other positions. They don't need a top flight PG back, they need bigs and swingman.

MLB007
06-26-2010, 06:20 PM
http://www.docdave.org/docdave/basket/juliuslarry/content/Larrybird.jpg.jpeg

"That's a BOLD statement"..................... :D

joew8302
06-26-2010, 06:26 PM
It would be atough call but Okafor is a mess. His contrcat is terrible and his play is average and you have to wonder about his health teh next four years. In thatdeal we lose both Hibbert and Hansbrough and Murphy and all cap space so our other bigs would be Foster, Jones and McBob............thats pretty ugly and certainly not competitive.

On top of that we lose George who might be a future All Star player and certainly an upgrabe over Rush and Dahntay.

So yo have a maxed out roster for the next four years........no depth and no real NBA starters at the 2 and 4 spots.

I love Chris Paul but he wont be happy playing in Indy on a 46 win team and losing in teh round 1 every year with no money to improve.

Thats why Okafor and Collison works so much better. You still have plenty of money and you get to keep George, Hibbert and Hansbrough........which are our lat three #1 picks.

So would you trade 3 #1s, $15mm per year of cap space, and Darren Collison for Chris Paul ??

I wouldn't.

Yes, ab-so-fricken-loutely. Look, I don't love Okafor's game or anything. But I believe he is about a 15/10 guy that can block shots. He won't be an All Star or a HOF'er, but he is certainly solid.

Also, we have no idea what we have in George. Sure, he may turn out to be great, and he may turn out to bust. I mean who really knows? I wouldn't like trading him so soon, but when it comes to Chris Paul then yes.

Hansbrough is also a question mark. I mean even if he reaches his ceiling, will he ever average 15/10 like Okafor does? I would say he might get close, but probably not. And with his vertigo who really knows how much more this guy has in the tank?

I also like Hibbert, and he is getting a lot better. But defensively he will never be extremely strong and he has trouble moving on this level.

I acknowledge we are giving up some good pieces in the trade, but I love Chris Paul. I mean as someone who has struggled through the Anthony Johnson's, TJ, Ford's, Jamal Tinsley's and Sarunas' of the past decade that would almost feel like heaven.

I also don't think New Orleans would even consider the deal you put on the table, but if they did I would think we would have to take it. Don't give up Granger, get back a starting caliber PF/C and Chris Paul? No brainer. But like I said, even thinking we could get Paul without giving up Danny is unrealistic.

Infinite MAN_force
06-26-2010, 08:11 PM
The Hornets will and should ask for an all-star talent in return for Chris Paul.

They have new ownership coming in and I don't think they would want to turn off their fanbase by trading their best player and one of the best players in the league, especially if they're not getting premium level talent in return.

FWIW, a team like OKC could offer Russell Westbrook, Green and/or Harden and picks (they have more future firsts, I think). That's a more compelling offer because Westbrook is a premium or near premium talent. A team like NJ could offer Harris and Derrick Favors, just as examples.

I see your angle, and you are certainly correct. There are plenty of teams out there that can outbid us in terms of pure talent.

However, is there another team that can offer the salary relief we can? I don't think so, and we have some nice young pieces on rookie contracts to throw in ourselves. Who else has the expiring deals? Even a team like OKC who is under the cap, probably doesn't have the space to absorb both Paul AND Okafors contract. We could take on Paul, Okafor, AND Posey with expirings. There has to be value to that, especially to a team in the Hornets situation.

MillerTime
06-26-2010, 10:46 PM
unless we're willing to give Granger and Hibberty...we have no shot

NappyRootz
06-27-2010, 01:57 AM
I see your angle, and you are certainly correct. There are plenty of teams out there that can outbid us in terms of pure talent.

However, is there another team that can offer the salary relief we can? I don't think so, and we have some nice young pieces on rookie contracts to throw in ourselves. Who else has the expiring deals? Even a team like OKC who is under the cap, probably doesn't have the space to absorb both Paul AND Okafors contract. We could take on Paul, Okafor, AND Posey with expirings. There has to be value to that, especially to a team in the Hornets situation.

Thats exactly right.

At the end of the summer I would expect Miami, New York and New Jersey to be better landing place for Paul than us. But we are close behind because of what you mentioned.

The Knicks can only offer David Lee, Danillo Gallinari and uture picks but they can and would absorb Paul, Okafor and Posey and still have enough room to sign LeBron.

Miami doesnt have much to trade back except for future picks and Beasley.

Jersey has the most to offer back in Harris, Yi and Favors but remember that is what we reportedly turned down for Granger.

And why they would want Harris and his contrcat when they have Colliosn is beyond me unless they would move him to us or someone else.

Maybe a 3 way trade that moves Harris here for Ford and Hansbrough is what they would show interest in. Personally I would still pass and try and sign Foye or Felton.

I think I like Felton better than Harris anyway. I know I like Hinrich better and he wouldnt cost us Hansbrough either.

But from their perspective a trade of Paul and Okafor for Hansbrough, Favors, and Yi would save them almost $30mm/yr for the next 4 years. Or about $100mm total which is about 50% of the cost of an NBA team.

Their fans may not love the idea, but their ownership sure would.

Jersey probbaly throws in a future #1 and remains able to sign Gay or Joe Johnson or LeBron to go with Okafor, Lopez and Paul.

Pretty solid group.

Day-V
06-27-2010, 02:38 AM
unless we're willing to give Granger and Hibberty...we have no shot

They'd want Hibbert way more than they'd want Granger.

woowoo
06-27-2010, 07:42 AM
They'd want Hibbert way more than they'd want Granger.

? :eek: Great, do it.... :)

MillerTime
06-27-2010, 08:39 AM
They'd want Hibbert way more than they'd want Granger.
I totally disagree with that statement. Granger is a top arguably a top 3 SF in the game and one of the best scorers. Hibbert has shown potential but he's still not as valuable as Granger

MLB007
06-27-2010, 09:17 AM
I totally disagree with that statement. Granger is a top arguably a top 3 SF in the game and one of the best scorers. Hibbert has shown potential but he's still not as valuable as Granger

I have read several different places around the league that Danny falls into that second tier of shooters that most teams don't really worry about.
He'll get his, but if it takes 20 shots to score 25pts they'll GLADLY give him his points knowing they will win the game.
He's not "really" the big star that some here seem to think.
He's a very good player that has had to assume the "star" role even though he's not really that player.

Factor in that wing players are much more easy to find than low post 7' AND the contract differences and I expect that you are pretty much wrong with most of the teams in the league.

Anthem
06-27-2010, 09:47 AM
Granger is a top arguably a top 3 SF
I've never seen anyone argue that and I wouldn't believe them if they did.

And I really like Granger.