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Smoothdave1
06-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Saw this on Yahoo and hadn't seen it posted yet, but it appears that the Pacers were trying to get back into the first round and buy a late 1st rounder for 3 million and tried to buy an early 2nd rounder for 1.5 million so that they could select Stephenson. As luck would have it, he fell to us at #40. But it's interesting to see where we placed Stephenson as it seems as though Bird and Morway are very high on the kid. I think he may be a better NBA player than he was a college player. See the link and info below: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArrBlV17rRHnswLZJcOcaFm8vLYF?slug=mc-draftwinnerslosers062510


Fortune also smiled on the Pacers, who, sources say, unsuccessfully tried to buy a late first-round pick for $3 million and an early second-rounder for $1.5 million to take Lance Stephenson, a former New York phenom. Despite their failed efforts, Stephenson fell to the Pacers anyway at No. 40.

Sparhawk
06-26-2010, 11:38 AM
This was actually mentioned in another thread. I'm too lazy to find out which one.

Smoothdave1
06-26-2010, 11:49 AM
Hicks, if this is a dup, please delete. My apologies.

Tom White
06-26-2010, 12:04 PM
The scary part is TPTB gave James White the same kind of props a few years ago, when they said he could just as easily been their pick at 17.

Doesn't do a lot for my confidence in their judging of some of these guys, although with Stephenson, I think some GM's were put off by his ego/past/etc.

tsm612
06-26-2010, 12:09 PM
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Bird thought that someone in the 20s or 30s could end up being one of the best players in the draft. I think we all know who he was talking about now, and I really hope he's right.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2010, 12:12 PM
The scary part is TPTB gave James White the same kind of props a few years ago, when they said he could just as easily been their pick at 17.

Doesn't do a lot for my confidence in their judging of some of these guys, although with Stephenson, I think some GM's were put off by his ego/past/etc.


I was just thinking how similiar this sounded to the James White fiasco. It makes me leary hearing it.

Tom White
06-26-2010, 12:17 PM
I was just thinking how similiar this sounded to the James White fiasco. It makes me leary hearing it.

Well, maybe he is just trying to get the fans excited about the pick. I dunno.

odeez
06-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Interesting, I still like the pick, but it seems like we couldn't get any deals done that night.. I am happy with the draft, but It makes me wonder if Bird can make a deal at all.

I will continue to be patient.:hmm:

Hicks
06-26-2010, 12:27 PM
The scary part is TPTB gave James White the same kind of props a few years ago, when they said he could just as easily been their pick at 17.

Doesn't do a lot for my confidence in their judging of some of these guys, although with Stephenson, I think some GM's were put off by his ego/past/etc.

Agreed; I worry about that, too.

What I'm hoping makes this different is that since getting burned back then, the Pacers have put a lot more effort into learning about the psychology/personality of each player they consider drafting, and if there were major concerns, I think this time around they would be much more likely to have picked up on them and passed, but instead they still took him. So I'd like to think this isn't James White Part II.

Now, that doesn't mean this kid's going to work out, just that I'd be shocked if it flamed out as quickly/abruptly as White did.

odeez
06-26-2010, 12:33 PM
Wells was saying they hired a private investigator to check Stephenson and his family out. I heard it on 1070... Did I hear him correctly, do teams do this often with "at risk players"? If so they are really doing their home work!

tsm612
06-26-2010, 12:35 PM
Wells was saying they hired a private investigator to check Stephenson and his family out. I heard it on 1070... Did I hear him correctly, do teams do this often with "at risk players"? If so they are really doing their home work!

According to Stephenson's old coach, the Pacers were the ones that really did their homework. It seems that no one else went to that extent.

imawhat
06-26-2010, 12:39 PM
I think this is why Larry is waiting until Summer League to make a decision on Brandon. We can't deny that we did thorough background checks, but you never know how something's goin to work out until you experience it firsthand.

Btw, this is nothing like James White. James not only wasn't that talented, but also had a terrible work ethic to go along with his superior attitude. By all accounts Stephenson has a great work ethic and has a mentality of fitting in. His hotheadedness comes from gameplay, a la Stephen Jackson. James' comes from not receiving playing time while believing he deserved to be starting.

idioteque
06-26-2010, 12:44 PM
Very interesting that the Pacers hired a PI to watch over Stephenson and his family, that's really something else and I wonder if it is done frequently.

I am a little nervous about Stephenson's 'tude, but I really think the Pacers have learned from past mistakes and would not have drafted the guy if the guy and his family got really bad reviews from the PI.

Did Stephenson get in any trouble in Cincy? I haven't heard of it. The thing about his grabbing a girl's *** in high school, that's pretty minor I think, these kinds of things can be very subjective and weren't the charges thrown out?

woowoo
06-26-2010, 12:48 PM
This is all up to Lance, if he wants to work (and all indications so far say he is motivated) he can be as good as any player in this draft. I have listened to several interviews now with him and I do not see why people are so put off by him. He is "cocky"/"confident but so is every other "great" player in the NBA, not named Duncan.

I really like the Pacers taking him, there is "zero" risk and "lots" of reward with this player. And I would not have been upset if the Pacers had "payed" to get into the first round to get him...

Anyone here know if Indiana is going to bring in any of the FA/undrafted rookie PG's from this years class????

woowoo
06-26-2010, 12:53 PM
Wells was saying they hired a private investigator to check Stephenson and his family out. I heard it on 1070... Did I hear him correctly, do teams do this often with "at risk players"? If so they are really doing their home work!

The NFL does it all the time with high risk individuals....

Bball
06-26-2010, 01:11 PM
On one hand we have to be thinking "Wow, we're lucky we got this player we targeted and were willing to spend or deal our way higher to get him".

OTOH, obviously nobody else was as high on him as us because we were trying to get into a position to pick him where nobody else did... and he fell to us anyway.

indyaway
06-26-2010, 01:28 PM
There is always risk w/ 2nd rounders, none of them are complete. That said, Stephenson's 'flaws' so to speak are more around his character, not his on court skills. He has legit, Rucker Park pedigree that I think will offer an intriguing presence off the bench.

MLB007
06-26-2010, 01:36 PM
Saw this on Yahoo and hadn't seen it posted yet, but it appears that the Pacers were trying to get back into the first round and buy a late 1st rounder for 3 million and tried to buy an early 2nd rounder for 1.5 million so that they could select Stephenson. As luck would have it, he fell to us at #40. But it's interesting to see where we placed Stephenson as it seems as though Bird and Morway are very high on the kid. I think he may be a better NBA player than he was a college player. See the link and info below: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArrBlV17rRHnswLZJcOcaFm8vLYF?slug=mc-draftwinnerslosers062510

Sounds eerily like the White kid................

indygeezer
06-26-2010, 01:38 PM
There is always risk w/ 2nd rounders, none of them are complete. That said, Stephenson's 'flaws' so to speak are more around his character, not his on court skills. He has legit, Rucker Park pedigree that I think will offer an intriguing presence off the bench.

That was said about Jamaal Tinsley too.

90'sNBARocked
06-26-2010, 01:38 PM
Well guys I say lets give him a chance before we either worry or condem. MAybe, just maybe he will be ok, or even over achieve

MLB007
06-26-2010, 01:39 PM
According to Stephenson's old coach, the Pacers were the ones that really did their homework. It seems that no one else went to that extent.

Or that other teams wrote him off BEFORE getting that serious an interest.
Face it, it doesn't sound good what the pre-draft report says.
Yelling at teammates, dogging it, can't keep interested.
Mad skills apparently, but it sounds like a long shot that he goes from 'that' last year to a pro this year.
Sounds like a CBA guy that works his way up if he behaves.

MLB007
06-26-2010, 01:54 PM
This is all up to Lance, if he wants to work (and all indications so far say he is motivated) he can be as good as any player in this draft. I have listened to several interviews now with him and I do not see why people are so put off by him. He is "cocky"/"confident but so is every other "great" player in the NBA, not named Duncan.

I really like the Pacers taking him, there is "zero" risk and "lots" of reward with this player. And I would not have been upset if the Pacers had "payed" to get into the first round to get him...

Anyone here know if Indiana is going to bring in any of the FA/undrafted rookie PG's from this years class????

It's not "zero" risk. There were "safer" picks available that would have stood a decent chance of making the team too. So that's an opportunity cost.
Worth it where we got it. NOT worth it to move up. This is a bad boy with a lot to learn and a lot of growing up to do.
I would be majorly pissed if they paid and drafted him in the first round. No way you give this kid a 1st round contract.

Bball
06-26-2010, 01:55 PM
Sounds eerily like the White kid................


Just another example of Bird being enamored with white kids....

;) :zip:

McKeyFan
06-26-2010, 02:53 PM
Just another example of Bird being enamored with white kids....

;) :zip:

See, this would have been so much better without the green.

McKeyFan
06-26-2010, 02:55 PM
He has legit, Rucker Park pedigree that I think will offer an intriguing presence off the bench.

Yes, and he apparently has excellent dustpan-handling skills.

indyaway
06-26-2010, 03:27 PM
That was said about Jamaal Tinsley too.

Which makes my point, few will argue that when his head was on right Tinsley was an NBA-grade starting point guard. Stephenson likely has NBA-level talent, the risk rests almost exclusively around his mindset and work-ethic. That's what you spend 2nd round picks on.

NapTonius Monk
06-26-2010, 04:21 PM
Yes, and he apparently has excellent dustpan-handling skills.See, now your avatar goes perfectly with this! :laugh:

all4pacers
06-26-2010, 05:09 PM
I like all three picks, I followed Stephenson since he was recruited by IU and he is a basketball player with many skills. I thought his attitude would be a problem in college, but not in the NBA as he is willing to work. He is NOT like James White, Stephenson is very skilled, White was just athletic player they hoped to turn in to a basketball player.

I would be tempted to try Stephenson at the point, not normally a passer but I would be interested in trying it.

Unclebuck
06-26-2010, 11:42 PM
The scary part is TPTB gave James White the same kind of props a few years ago, when they said he could just as easily been their pick at 17.

Doesn't do a lot for my confidence in their judging of some of these guys, although with Stephenson, I think some GM's were put off by his ego/past/etc.

Even bad GM's aren't wrong everytime. Just like good GM's aren't right everytime.

So I'm not scared. And if they are wrong, so what they gave up nothing he doesn't have a guarenteed contract

BlueNGold
06-27-2010, 12:27 AM
It seems like every year there is talk about a non-PG playing the position. Let's see. Marquis, Luther Head, Dunleavy...now our second round pick. Just kind of funny IMO...

BornReady
06-27-2010, 12:29 AM
It seems like every year there is talk about a non-PG playing the position. Let's see. Marquis, Luther Head, Dunleavy...now our second round pick. Just kind of funny IMO...

i think we might be lacking a pg :confused:

BlueNGold
06-27-2010, 12:32 AM
i think we might be lacking a pg :confused:

Oh, we are probably lacking two PG's. I just find it humorous that anyone under 7 feet with a decent handle gets a try-out around here.

Seriously though, the Pacers need a PG really, really BAD. Expect us to give up something in trade to get a decent one this summer. Don't expect the Pacers to put Stephenson at the helm...:laugh:

PacersPride
06-27-2010, 12:36 AM
yes he can, ryan reid for magnum rolle!



Interesting, I still like the pick, but it seems like we couldn't get any deals done that night.. I am happy with the draft, but It makes me wonder if Bird can make a deal at all.

I will continue to be patient.:hmm:

Foul on Smits
06-27-2010, 12:41 AM
According to Chad Ford, Stephenson worked his *** off and blew alot of GMS away with his workouts and talent, but everyone was afraid to take a chance on him. If this draft was on talent alone, Stephenson might have been a top 5-10 pick. The guy has incredible talent. And if the Pacers were truely the only people to do there homework on him and thought he was well suited to play for us ( after all the mess in the past ), then i'm pretty excited. If the guy puts in the work, he can be the started SG for the Pacers and a legit steal.

I read the player breakdowns on NBADraft.net. They do a great job. Read his strengths and try to tell me this isnt what the Pacers have severely lacked the past 5 years.

" Strengths: Nineteen year old freshman with an NBA-ready body ... At 6'5 210, has a rare combination of power and quickness ... Completely dominated the New York PSAL, almost single handedly leading Lincoln HS to four titles (Owns the all time scoring record in the State of New York) ... Was often the biggest and strongest guy on the court, and took advantage of it, routinely dismantling opponents using brute force ... Relentless attacker of the basket, seeking out contact and getting to the free throw stripe where he converts at a high % ... Excellent penetrator with a quick first step ... Utilizes change of pace dribbles, cross-overs and spin moves to get into the lane ... Able to slither his way in between small creases ... Superior ball handler with a flare for the dramatic (good or bad) ... Good court vision. Aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke ... Supreme accuracy on pull up J's, especially when dribbling to his left ... "Easy" three point range. Has shown flashes of lock down on the ball defense with his strength and 6'10 wingspan ... Should be an instant fast break running the point at Cincinnati with his rebounding ability ... "Born Ready" has been hyped since day 1 at Lincoln, playing under tremendous pressure and scrutiny every night, even appearing in a documentary about him ..."



I hope the kid gets head on straight. Bird should serve as a good mentor to him. If the guy " gets it ". This is one of the biggest steals in draft history. If not, it's just another failed 2nd round pick. 75% of them are fails anyways.

IndyPacer
06-27-2010, 01:08 AM
According to Chad Ford, Stephenson worked his *** off and blew alot of GMS away with his workouts and talent, but everyone was afraid to take a chance on him. If this draft was on talent alone, Stephenson might have been a top 5-10 pick. The guy has incredible talent. And if the Pacers were truely the only people to do there homework on him and thought he was well suited to play for us ( after all the mess in the past ), then i'm pretty excited. If the guy puts in the work, he can be the started SG for the Pacers and a legit steal.

I read the player breakdowns on NBADraft.net. They do a great job. Read his strengths and try to tell me this isnt what the Pacers have severely lacked the past 5 years.

" Strengths: Nineteen year old freshman with an NBA-ready body ... At 6'5 210, has a rare combination of power and quickness ... Completely dominated the New York PSAL, almost single handedly leading Lincoln HS to four titles (Owns the all time scoring record in the State of New York) ... Was often the biggest and strongest guy on the court, and took advantage of it, routinely dismantling opponents using brute force ... Relentless attacker of the basket, seeking out contact and getting to the free throw stripe where he converts at a high % ... Excellent penetrator with a quick first step ... Utilizes change of pace dribbles, cross-overs and spin moves to get into the lane ... Able to slither his way in between small creases ... Superior ball handler with a flare for the dramatic (good or bad) ... Good court vision. Aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke ... Supreme accuracy on pull up J's, especially when dribbling to his left ... "Easy" three point range. Has shown flashes of lock down on the ball defense with his strength and 6'10 wingspan ... Should be an instant fast break running the point at Cincinnati with his rebounding ability ... "Born Ready" has been hyped since day 1 at Lincoln, playing under tremendous pressure and scrutiny every night, even appearing in a documentary about him ..."



I hope the kid gets head on straight. Bird should serve as a good mentor to him. If the guy " gets it ". This is one of the biggest steals in draft history. If not, it's just another failed 2nd round pick. 75% of them are fails anyways.

I wish I shared your optimism about Stephenson. I agree that he was a good pick at #40 and worth the relatively low risk there. I think he's got a lot of potential. But I still see lots of immaturity from him and worry a bit about his personality. He seems to think he's destined to be an All-Star in a few years and it sounded like he was making a lot of excuses for his history of pouting and slacking off on defense. I'm also not so fond of some of his AND 1 antics. Maybe this is all because he's so young, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I'm obviously not alone considering so many passed on him. I actually feel a bit more confident about Rolle to be honest. And there's no way I'm going to agree that he is a top 5 to 10 talent. James Anderson was picked at 20, and I would have Anderson rated higher than Stephenson even if character was completely ignored. If Stephenson has his head screwed on right, he can definitely be a steal at #40, but he would not be considered a lottery pick compared to the other players in this draft.

Foul on Smits
06-27-2010, 01:10 AM
I wish I shared your optimism about Stephenson. I agree that he was a good pick at #40 and worth the relatively low risk there. I think he's got a lot of potential. But I still see lots of immaturity from him and worry a bit about his personality. He seems to think he's destined to be an All-Star in a few years and it sounded like he was making a lot of excuses for his history of pouting and slacking off on defense. I'm also not so fond of some of his AND 1 antics. Maybe this is all because he's so young, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I'm obviously not alone considering so many passed on him. I actually feel a bit more confident about Rolle to be honest. And there's no way I'm going to agree that he is a top 5 to 10 talent. James Anderson was picked at 20, and I would have Anderson rated higher than Stephenson even if character was completely ignored. If Stephenson has his head screwed on right, he can definitely be a steal at #40, but he would not be considered a lottery pick compared to the other players in this draft.

I'm not sure why you would rate James Anderson over Stephenson on talent.

"Weaknesses: Lack of ball handling skills really constricts his game ... He is not comfortable creating offense for himself or teammates ... Appears hesitant with the ball in his hands with a lack of ingenuity ... Despite his athletic gifts, does not look "smooth" when forced to make a basketball move ... Drives to the basket are predominantly to his left ... Unable to change directions with the rock ... Dribbles with his head down ... Turnovers (2 per game for his career) and offensive fouls have been a problem ... Not a particularly adept passer (1.3 ast per game) ... His basketball IQ needs work ... He's a natural shooter, but not a natural basketball player ... Could certainly stand to add some bulk, which would aid his ball handling woes ... Knocked off balance too easily on drives ... Despite improved aggression, still spends too much time floating around the perimeter, especially in crunch time. Needs to augment his mid-range game. "

Bball
06-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Read his strengths and try to tell me this isnt what the Pacers have severely lacked the past 5 years.

I can't say the Pacers have ever lacked for any players getting post draft hype. ...But we've sure lacked on any of it panning out (The list pretty much starts and ends with Granger this past decade).

But color me intrigued to see how this one goes.

pizza guy
06-27-2010, 01:29 AM
According to Chad Ford, Stephenson worked his *** off and blew alot of GMS away with his workouts and talent, but everyone was afraid to take a chance on him. If this draft was on talent alone, Stephenson might have been a top 5-10 pick. The guy has incredible talent. And if the Pacers were truely the only people to do there homework on him and thought he was well suited to play for us ( after all the mess in the past ), then i'm pretty excited. If the guy puts in the work, he can be the started SG for the Pacers and a legit steal.

I read the player breakdowns on NBADraft.net. They do a great job. Read his strengths and try to tell me this isnt what the Pacers have severely lacked the past 5 years.

" Strengths: Nineteen year old freshman with an NBA-ready body ... At 6'5 210, has a rare combination of power and quickness ... Completely dominated the New York PSAL, almost single handedly leading Lincoln HS to four titles (Owns the all time scoring record in the State of New York) ... Was often the biggest and strongest guy on the court, and took advantage of it, routinely dismantling opponents using brute force ... Relentless attacker of the basket, seeking out contact and getting to the free throw stripe where he converts at a high % ... Excellent penetrator with a quick first step ... Utilizes change of pace dribbles, cross-overs and spin moves to get into the lane ... Able to slither his way in between small creases ... Superior ball handler with a flare for the dramatic (good or bad) ... Good court vision. Aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke ... Supreme accuracy on pull up J's, especially when dribbling to his left ... "Easy" three point range. Has shown flashes of lock down on the ball defense with his strength and 6'10 wingspan ... Should be an instant fast break running the point at Cincinnati with his rebounding ability ... "Born Ready" has been hyped since day 1 at Lincoln, playing under tremendous pressure and scrutiny every night, even appearing in a documentary about him ..."



I hope the kid gets head on straight. Bird should serve as a good mentor to him. If the guy " gets it ". This is one of the biggest steals in draft history. If not, it's just another failed 2nd round pick. 75% of them are fails anyways.

If all that is true, I think we just drafted Michael Jordan.

I hope he turns out to be as good as the real sunshiners say he will be. If not, at pick #40 it's worth the risk.

--pizza

BornReady
06-27-2010, 01:51 AM
interesting
wikipedia seems to think that Stephenson died of a cocaine overdose following the NBA draft. Len Bias much?

imawhat
06-27-2010, 02:25 AM
That is very strange...hope it's not real.

IndyPacer
06-27-2010, 02:37 AM
I'm not sure why you would rate James Anderson over Stephenson on talent.

"Weaknesses: Lack of ball handling skills really constricts his game ... He is not comfortable creating offense for himself or teammates ... Appears hesitant with the ball in his hands with a lack of ingenuity ... Despite his athletic gifts, does not look "smooth" when forced to make a basketball move ... Drives to the basket are predominantly to his left ... Unable to change directions with the rock ... Dribbles with his head down ... Turnovers (2 per game for his career) and offensive fouls have been a problem ... Not a particularly adept passer (1.3 ast per game) ... His basketball IQ needs work ... He's a natural shooter, but not a natural basketball player ... Could certainly stand to add some bulk, which would aid his ball handling woes ... Knocked off balance too easily on drives ... Despite improved aggression, still spends too much time floating around the perimeter, especially in crunch time. Needs to augment his mid-range game. "

You posted Anderson's weaknesses and Stephenson's strengths. That doesn't make much sense to me if you are trying to compare them. Regardless, almost everyone would rate Anderson ahead of Stephenson. Certainly every NBA team did.

MLB007
06-27-2010, 09:21 AM
I'm not sure why you would rate James Anderson over Stephenson on talent.

"Weaknesses: Lack of ball handling skills really constricts his game ... He is not comfortable creating offense for himself or teammates ... Appears hesitant with the ball in his hands with a lack of ingenuity ... Despite his athletic gifts, does not look "smooth" when forced to make a basketball move ... Drives to the basket are predominantly to his left ... Unable to change directions with the rock ... Dribbles with his head down ... Turnovers (2 per game for his career) and offensive fouls have been a problem ... Not a particularly adept passer (1.3 ast per game) ... His basketball IQ needs work ... He's a natural shooter, but not a natural basketball player ... Could certainly stand to add some bulk, which would aid his ball handling woes ... Knocked off balance too easily on drives ... Despite improved aggression, still spends too much time floating around the perimeter, especially in crunch time. Needs to augment his mid-range game. "


So why don't you post Stephensons weakness's then. ;) (it's as ugly as any player I've read)

Justin Tyme
06-27-2010, 10:03 AM
Bird should serve as a good mentor to him.


That's probably one of the funniest things I read on this board when you consider the following players

Shawne Williams
James White
Jamal Tinsley
Ron Artest( SI picture cover)
Stephon Jackson

He either didn't mentor them when needed or he isn't a good mentor.

Hicks
06-27-2010, 11:32 AM
That's probably one of the funniest things I read on this board when you consider the following players

Shawne Williams
James White
Jamal Tinsley
Ron Artest( SI picture cover)
Stephon Jackson

He either didn't mentor them when needed or he isn't a good mentor.

You can't train a bear to drive a car....

sportfireman
06-27-2010, 11:39 AM
How are Stepenson's PG skills...........I can see him running the point..........tall, long and atheletic..... kind of like a R. Westbrook type. Now if only we could get a real PG in here to train him.....

vnzla81
06-27-2010, 11:45 AM
I keep saying that the pacers got this guy because they want him to play PG, he has the tools to to this.

Hicks
06-27-2010, 11:46 AM
The more I read, the more I'm excited to see what this kid can do, and the more I hope he's not a headcase. He sounds like he could be something to see if things work out.

Hicks
06-27-2010, 11:46 AM
I keep saying that the pacers got this guy because they want him to play PG, he has the tools to to this.

Well, he does sound like a 2-1 to me, so that could be a possibility at times.

vnzla81
06-27-2010, 11:51 AM
The more I read, the more I'm excited to see what this kid can do, and the more I hope he's not a headcase. He sounds like he could be something to see if things work out.

I agree, I am actually more excited about him than the other two guys.

Sparhawk
06-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Let's not forget Stephenson's McDonald's All-American game (from nbadraft.net):

Lance Stephenson -- 12 pts, 6-11 fg, 0-2 3p, 0-2 ft, 4 rebs, 3 stls, 6 asts, 6 to, 23 min -- Had a rough go of things committing 6 turnovers. Showed good speed in the open floor with the ball, but gets out of control. On one occasion, he got off the ground before passing causing a turnover showing his lack of fundamentals. He did make some solid plays down the stretch including the game clinching pass to Favors. Has a nose for scoring. Really excels attacking the rim off the bounce. On the negative side his feet look awkward, as he runs up on his toes, not fluid. Talented kid with a great body for his age, but below average athleticism for the NBA level and his fundamentals, work ethic, and body language are big concerns.

Hicks
06-27-2010, 12:20 PM
..... I think he's athletic enough:

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IndyPacer
06-27-2010, 12:25 PM
I keep saying that the pacers got this guy because they want him to play PG, he has the tools to to this.

If Steve "Franchise" Francis' AND1 style is what you consider to ideal PG skills, then maybe.

90'sNBARocked
06-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Am I the only one that sees this as sick & twisted?!

(btw, are there any links to this, or similar stories? - I had no idea this sort of thing occurred in pro sports...I'd like to read more...)

It is a lot more common than you think. All the money being shelled out on the front end, guaranteed money, more and more teams are doing this

xBulletproof
06-27-2010, 01:46 PM
I keep saying that the pacers got this guy because they want him to play PG, he has the tools to to this.

Yes, we want a guy with a 1.04 a/t ratio to be our point guard ....

What a horrific idea, and mental image.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-27-2010, 02:21 PM
Yes, we want a guy with a 1.04 a/t ratio to be our point guard ....

What a horrific idea, and mental image.

Funny thing is, his 1.04 is still better than Eric Bledsoe's.

PaceBalls
06-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Am I the only one that sees this as sick & twisted?!

(btw, are there any links to this, or similar stories? - I had no idea this sort of thing occurred in pro sports...I'd like to read more...)

I don't see whats so sick and twisted about it. They are about to pay this guy huge amounts of money and bring him into the top tier, elite level of sports. It is only responsible for them to do serious background checks.

I don't think it is like some PI was tailing him everywhere he goes in an unmarked black car, snapping pics and documenting his lovelife or something. More likely, just interviewing classmates, friends of the family, etc...

ilive4sports
06-27-2010, 02:35 PM
I don't see whats so sick and twisted about it. They are about to pay this guy huge amounts of money and bring him into the top tier, elite level of sports. It is only responsible for them to do serious background checks.

I don't think it is like some PI was tailing him everywhere he goes in an unmarked black car, snapping pics and documenting his lovelife or something. More likely, just interviewing classmates, friends of the family, etc...

Agreed. The FO just wanted to do their homework on someone they were high on, but knew he had some character issues.

Stephenson seems to put a lot of those problems behind him. Thats a big difference between him and Williams. One Stephenson got to Cinci, he focused more on basketball and go away from the problems. Williams never did that. Just going to have to wait and see on Stepehenson.

MLB007
06-27-2010, 02:35 PM
Am I the only one that sees this as sick & twisted?!

(btw, are there any links to this, or similar stories? - I had no idea this sort of thing occurred in pro sports...I'd like to read more...)

Seriously? Been going on in pro sports for quite a while now. Unlike what was said in other threads, they aren't following him around watching him. They are doing background checks, talking to family and friends, teammates, roomies, (and enemies) to find out everything they can about how the person really behaves and lives his life.
The higher the interest, the better the talent, the more questionable the person, the more they invest in investigation.

Kemo
06-27-2010, 02:38 PM
side note.. he was in that movie/doc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnin%27_for_That_No._1_Spot

"Gunnin' For That N.1 Spot" that was made by Beastie Boys member Adam Yauch..

Trader Joe
06-27-2010, 03:15 PM
I'm just going to start calling this draft Shawne Williams/James White Part Deux. I'm pretty sure we had a thread about White just like this, replete with youtube clips of his dunks and all...

I feel like I'm having deja vu

Justin Tyme
06-27-2010, 03:27 PM
It is a lot more common than you think. All the money being shelled out on the front end, guaranteed money, more and more teams are doing this



It's not uncommon for it to be done in the Govt and private sector.

MLB007
06-27-2010, 03:29 PM
I'm not sure why you would rate James Anderson over Stephenson on talent.

"Weaknesses: Lack of ball handling skills really constricts his game ... He is not comfortable creating offense for himself or teammates ... Appears hesitant with the ball in his hands with a lack of ingenuity ... Despite his athletic gifts, does not look "smooth" when forced to make a basketball move ... Drives to the basket are predominantly to his left ... Unable to change directions with the rock ... Dribbles with his head down ... Turnovers (2 per game for his career) and offensive fouls have been a problem ... Not a particularly adept passer (1.3 ast per game) ... His basketball IQ needs work ... He's a natural shooter, but not a natural basketball player ... Could certainly stand to add some bulk, which would aid his ball handling woes ... Knocked off balance too easily on drives ... Despite improved aggression, still spends too much time floating around the perimeter, especially in crunch time. Needs to augment his mid-range game. "


Maybe because there is a whole story on BOTH players? :
[Read Full Article]
Filling in the Blanks: NCAA Scouting Reports
April 28, 2010
Kyle Nelson

Toward the end of his freshman season, Cincinnati shooting guard Lance Stephenson surprisingly announced that he would return for his sophomore year. Weeks later, he shocked few when he reneged on that announcement and entered the NBA Draft with an agent (reportedly his lawyer, Alberto Ebanks). While Stephenson always seemed like a one-and-done player, he had a subpar freshman season that exposed many of his flaws and showed the limit of his potential.

Physically speaking, Stephenson has solid height for an NBA shooting guard at 6-5 with good length and a strong frame. As was the case in high school, he relies on his strength to overpower weaker players and compensate for his lack of athleticism. From a conditioning standpoint, he did not appear to be in ideal shape this past season, likely carrying an extra 10-15 pounds on his thick frame. He is quick in the open floor, but lacks the explosiveness and lateral quickness expected from wings at the next level. While he will continue to work on his strength and conditioning, there is no doubt that Stephenson is a below average athlete in the NBA.

His offensive skill set, which is heavily reliant on isolations and muscling his way to the basket, will probably have to be adapted at the next level, given his lack of explosiveness and quickness. While Stephenson’s touch around the basket is not bad, his overall shooting during his freshman season was extremely poor. He shot a dismal 21.9% from beyond the arc, converted under 50% from inside the arc and made just 66% of his foul shots.

On film, his shooting motion with his feet set is not terrible. He has a fairly fluid motion and release. But he has issues with excess lower body movement, and when he shoots off the dribble, his mechanics are less consistent and he has a tendency to fade away while shooting.

The biggest issue here is Stephenson’s decision making. He settles for bad shot after bad shot, in spite of miserable percentages and open teammates. He seems to lack any sort of understanding of shot selection. Even when his shots were not falling, he forced the issue and, if his teammates sought their own offense, he tended to pout and fade into the background. This is likely the primary cause for concern from NBA scouts, as Stephenson has never really shown the ability to play team-oriented basketball and could certainly have issues adapting to a situation where he’s simply a role player.

Stephenson does a good job of creating space off the dribble, showing solid ball-handling skills for his size. The effectiveness of his mid-range game suffers due to his poor shot selection, but he has shown an ability to find shots inside the arc and pull up off the dribble. Similarly, he was at his best last season when he attacked the basket both in transition and in half court situations, where he could use his size and strength to his advantage. He must improve his willingness to find the open man, though, as his tunnel vision often results in offensive fouls and untimely turnovers.

Though Cincinnati did not field the most competitive or disciplined team last season, Stephenson’s lack of offensive efficiency and selfish style of play have been omnipresent throughout his career. During workouts, he must somehow convince scouts that he is capable of playing team-oriented basketball and has the ability to produce efficiently in a smaller role. As we have written before, Stephenson possesses NBA-caliber scoring abilities. His average athleticism and questionable decision making ability, however, may force him to work his way up through the D-League first.

On the defensive end, Stephenson did a decent job at Cinncinati, but his lack of lateral quickness limits his potential in this area at the next level. He will struggle to guard bigger and more athletic guards in the NBA, though his strength and length will likely work in his favor. His strong frame also helps him on the boards, where he averages 7.5 rebounds per 40 minutes, pace adjusted -- solid numbers for a wing player.

His behavior off of the court has also been a well-documented issue in recent years. He stayed out of trouble at Cincinnati, but he has accumulated quite a collection of red flags during his brief time as an amateur basketball player. Any NBA team that considers drafting him will have to do extensive research about his background, and decipher why he was in such a big rush to leave Cincinnati after such a sub-par freshman season.

While there are a tremendous amount of obstacles in his way, Stephenson still has the potential to be a contributor at the next level at some point down the road. While his lack of explosiveness and mediocre shot selection are areas of significant concern, he has good scoring instincts and a decent offensive repertoire. Stephenson is sure to be one of the most controversial players in the draft. There is no guarantee that he will even be picked, but he may be able to carve out a career for himself regardless, a la Stephen Jackson.
[Read Full Article]
NCAA Weekly Performers, 12/18/09
December 18, 2009
Matt Kamalsky

MLB007
06-27-2010, 03:49 PM
..... I think he's athletic enough:

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ALL the draft analysis I seen have rated him a BELOW average in athleticism. Certainly jumping alone doesn't make you athletic, though it can make for a nice highlight clip.
And truthfully, that's just a straight forward (nice) dunk that the big guy missed. Wasn't like he went SO high that Cousins couldn't reach it.

flox
06-27-2010, 03:51 PM
So I was listening to the Bill Simmons podcast with Chad Ford and they went indepth about stephenson for like a good three minutes, they said that he was a work out wonder and that in his workouts he showed drive and he was really woken up from the fact that people stopped recruiting him (thus he went to UC), and the fact that people kept on telling him he'd be a second round pick really humbled and motivated him

He was in his workout place working really hard, dropped a ton of weight and now has a chip on his shoulder and wants to prove he belongs.


This is going off memory as I was listening to it before I went to bed so I may have gotten a few pieces wrong but thats what I remember. I'll listen to it again later to confirm what was exactly said.

Bball
06-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Well, that throws some cold water on things. While maybe not questioning where he did get picked it certainly throws into question the idea of dealing up into the draft to pick him sooner. I'm glad that didn't happen for PR purposes alone.

But reading this:

The biggest issue here is Stephenson’s decision making. He settles for bad shot after bad shot, in spite of miserable percentages and open teammates. He seems to lack any sort of understanding of shot selection. Even when his shots were not falling, he forced the issue

...sounds like a perfect player for O'Brien. "You can't score if you don't shoot"

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-27-2010, 04:02 PM
Filling in the Blanks: NCAA Scouting Reports
April 28, 2010
Kyle Nelson

His behavior off of the court has also been a well-documented issue in recent years. He stayed out of trouble at Cincinnati, but he has accumulated quite a collection of red flags during his brief time as an amateur basketball player. Any NBA team that considers drafting him will have to do extensive research about his background, and decipher why he was in such a big rush to leave Cincinnati after such a sub-par freshman season.


Quite a collection? Is that really fair to say? Other than the sexual assault case, what else is there?

Maybe to support his family? He has a baby daughter now.

IndyPacer
06-27-2010, 04:07 PM
ALL the draft analysis I seen have rated him a BELOW average in athleticism. Certainly jumping alone doesn't make you athletic, though it can make for a nice highlight clip.
And truthfully, that's just a straight forward (nice) dunk that the big guy missed. Wasn't like he went SO high that Cousins couldn't reach it.

I wouldn't say it's below average. He's just not an elite athlete by any stretch of the imagination. He is probably a bit more athletic than he appeared to be because he wasn't as well conditioned and fit as he could have been. He's also reported to be slower than a lot of people here seem to realize. He's not as fast as the top NBA players, and even losing weight isn't going to elevate him to that level. He could develop into a great backup if he shows that he has grown up and can be a decent teammate. But I can't help but be skeptical when I hear him say that in a few years he thinks he's going to be an All-Star. I don't see that ever happening.