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Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2010, 11:41 AM
What is your grade of the Pacers 2010 Draft?

ESutt7
06-25-2010, 11:50 AM
I said A, though I would've given them an A- or B+. We may have wound up with the steal of the 1st round AND the 2nd round if Lance develops as well. I really like the George pick and it's the first time in 4 years or so I've been happy on draft night. I think we could've got someone more useful than Rolle though.

Ozwalt72
06-25-2010, 11:52 AM
I'll do a write-in.

The Pacers draft grade: ?

Kraut N Beer
06-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Can you keep the poll open for 4 years! :D

Gamble1
06-25-2010, 12:08 PM
I am not happy about the pg position not being addressed but I will have to wait and see what Bird does in the summer to be really pissed or happy.

Personally the George pick was a O.K. pick to me but nothing that made me feel that next year will be any different than the last 3 years. The second round guys were sort of out of blue to me.

pianoman
06-25-2010, 12:09 PM
Four years from now, George/Stephenson COULD be our core players. Danny might be used as trade bait for a great point guard. Just depends on how hard these guys work...

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2010, 12:15 PM
I am not happy about the pg position not being addressed but I will have to wait and see what Bird does in the summer to be really pissed or happy.

Personally the George pick was a O.K. pick to me but nothing that made me feel that next year will be any different than the last 3 years. The second round guys were sort of out of blue to me.

I agree with this. I was hoping for a PG, as that was our most glaring need. Instead we got 2 wildcards. "Potential" drafts scare me. This was entirely a potential draft. I understand that we could use a home run right now... I'm just not sure that's what we got.

George is intriguing, but man do I have question marks... is he T-Mac 2.0? Is he Shawne Williams 2.0?

Stephenson needed to go to a great coach and super system/organization like SA or Utah in order to put his game together, and unfortunately for him, he came to Indiana. His inside-game doesn't even fit in with this system. He can't shoot 3s or FTs at all. I wouldn't be surprised to see him being cut within two seasons if not sooner. This was a guy who, coming out of high school, was in the same breath as Wall and Cousins, and ended up going in the middle of the 2nd round after a lackluster freshman season. I hope he proves me wrong, but man does he have a long way to go...

Rolle, at 51, likely won't be a factor, but could be nice depth on the front line.

Doddage
06-25-2010, 12:19 PM
I really wanted us to do the Maynor, 18, and 21 deal (whether or not it was on the table).

With that said, George is a rock-solid prospect and I think we did a good job with picking someone who doesn't necessarily fit a need, but has the tools to be a big-time player. In the draft, it's easy to overlook BPA and go with someone who would fit a hole in your roster. I also liked the Stephenson pick, even though it means we're loaded on the wings. But again, it's all about getting the best assets, and in that sense, I think we made the right pick at 40.

The Reid pick was questionable at best, but I'm glad that it didn't end up belonging to us. We instead took a flyer on a shot-blocking center prospect, who may or may not contributing for us. But considering our need for a backup center who can exactly do that, I liked the move.

Basically, coming into the draft, the Pacers had holes at every spot in the roster. Arguably, that goes for Granger's spot too. I'm glad that we didn't hastily pick a PG or a PF and went for the BPA + potential approach. For the past few years, we've been going for conservative picks and now it looks like we've turned it up a notch. Good to see.

BRushWithDeath
06-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't have any problem with George or Stephenson but the lack of a trade is extremely disappointing to me. I give it a bad grade pending a trade which surely must be coming.

BillS
06-25-2010, 12:45 PM
I drank the T-Bird koolaid and became convinced George was the best player available. I'd have preferred a trade down because I think wing is redundant unless it turns out he can play an NBA 2 rather than an NCAA 3, but it seems a good solid player who can be a key piece in the future.

captainC
06-25-2010, 12:47 PM
I voted F, not for who we drafted, but for stringing us all out with all the BS in regards to trades.

As far as im concerned, the grade is based on the fact that upper management bluntly said "we wont be keeping the 10" and yet today they are backtracking on that statement.

No excuses, our front office failed to execute, just like the product on the floor last year. F- grade from me. Same old draft, and feels like same old product on the floor this year.

d_c
06-25-2010, 01:00 PM
I think the Pacers did well with Paul George. He's got good upside and at worst I see him as an NBA rotation player. I'd give a B+ grade. The NBA is about talent and the Pacers did the right thing if they thought he was best player available. I realize they didn't get a PG, but they'll have another opportunity for it.

I think at this stage it's too soon to focus in exclusively on one position. The Pacers just need more talent and I think Paul George is pretty talented, especially in the context of what is a pretty weak draft IMO.

I know a lot of people are disappointed because not too long ago it was a foregone conclusion that the pick would be involved in some trade. I'm really not surprised there wasn't a trade.

Also, notice there weren't any trades involved with any of the lottery picks. In fact, the #17 pick was the highest pick to be dealt. That tells you how demanding teams were of the return they would be getting for their lotto picks. It just doesn't surprise me that there weren't any moves with the way GMs in this league work.

Don't really care for Lance Stephenson's game but, like all second rounders, it's no big deal. It's a crapshoot when you got that far into the draft.

*Edit: Cole Aldrich picked at #11 did get traded, but my point remains.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 01:01 PM
I voted F, not for who we drafted, but for stringing us all out with all the BS in regards to trades.

As far as im concerned, the grade is based on the fact that upper management bluntly said "we wont be keeping the 10" and yet today they are backtracking on that statement.

No excuses, our front office failed to execute, just like the product on the floor last year. F- grade from me. Same old draft, and feels like same old product on the floor this year.

It takes two to tango... if all you get offered is crap, why dance with crap?
(some of the thing about the draft was was driven by the media, pure rumors... I'm pretty sure our front office never ever said in a statement we are 100% trading the pick.)

Seriously? I rather make no trade than a bad one, simple as that... our expirings will become more valuable as the FA market settles and even more so at the trade deadline... Folks, the off season has only started!

MagicRat
06-25-2010, 01:12 PM
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/draft-grade.jpg

captainC
06-25-2010, 01:17 PM
F does seem a little bit harsh, but Larry did say the time to win was now. We are not going to win right now.

I understand that some of these rumors were thrown out there by some 18yr old blogger etc. etc. but Larry was also in on the mix. I just want action, not rumor.

Even if Larry was only offered trash then fine don't trade. But this was a grade of the draft, and only the draft. And based on all the hype leading up the the draft, It was a big letdown and the reason for my grade. I am being overly harsh, i know.

Magic P
06-25-2010, 01:20 PM
A+

I rarely get excited about a player the Pacers or Colts draft. Those few times when i am excited the player turns out great, and this is one of those rare times.

BornReady
06-25-2010, 01:24 PM
I am not happy about the pg position not being addressed but I will have to wait and see what Bird does in the summer to be really pissed or happy.

Personally the George pick was a O.K. pick to me but nothing that made me feel that next year will be any different than the last 3 years. The second round guys were sort of out of blue to me.

at first i felt the same, but thinking about it, how many teams actually did address their pg needs, aside from the wizards? miami was very similar to indy in that they didnt bite on a 2nd round pg- there has to be a reason for this imo.

spazzxb
06-25-2010, 01:28 PM
its not grading your enjoyment of the draft but how well Larry performed . If we were just caring about how the draft turned out for you personally i figure a lot would be dependent on your company and the activities present at your viewing location. It should have nothing to do with the excitement you built due to sports writers or "inside" sources". thats all irrelevant.:-). Oh and why was Bird mixing it up with an 18 year old blogger. Was this a fight or umm fun you are talking about. wheres your source.
F does seem a little bit harsh, but Larry did say the time to win was now. We are not going to win right now.

I understand that some of these rumors were thrown out there by some 18yr old blogger etc. etc. but Larry was also in on the mix. I just want action, not rumor.

Even if Larry was only offered trash then fine don't trade. But this was a grade of the draft, and only the draft. And based on all the hype leading up the the draft, It was a big letdown and the reason for my grade. I am being overly harsh, i know.

ChristianDudley
06-25-2010, 01:34 PM
soley based on the drafting of players, I gave it an A.

Shade
06-25-2010, 01:35 PM
A-

We were unable to adequately address a need, so we decided to swing for the fences with a couple of guys with a lot of potential. The only real "WTF?" for me was drafting Reid, but trading him for Magnum made more sense.

I would rather trade Rush and an expiring for a quality veteran PG than draft one not named John Wall.

Unclebuck
06-25-2010, 01:36 PM
I don't see how a grade can be given for a year or so.

pacers didn't address their point guard and big player need. So an F. But if there weren't any good ones available at 10, that isn't the pacers fault. If George is the 2nd or third best player taken in this draft then an A.

Right now I have no idea

captainC
06-25-2010, 01:44 PM
I never said larry was fighting 18yr bloggers, I meant larry, bloggers, everyone was in the mix with rumors and so he should be held accountable as well.

no source needed.

odeez
06-25-2010, 01:52 PM
I give the Pacers a B for this years draft.

I like the players we got. George is a solid pick at 10, I watched everything I could on him last night and I am impressed with his game, his demeanor, and his absolute commitment to getting better. I think it's great that he has a connection with danny. Those two on the wing will be a lovely sight.

I think we get our PG through a trade. We have 40 plus million in expiring contracts (I believe) , we will make a trade at some point this Summer. So not getting one in the draft outside of John Wall is ok with me.

I would of loved to been able to pick-up Udoh, I had him 1 on my top five, but at least I can watch him here in Oakland.

Lance is a great pick-up in the second round. He needs some mentoring, but has a very high upside. If he can mature and work hard on his game he will be a steal for us. He gets to the rim and finishes nicely. Sure there are other negatives about him, but I think he is an awesome pick for us in the second round. Can't wait to see him in Summer League. If he doesn't pan out, it's not a big deal.

I won't get into Magnum Rolle. But the name alone makes him an interesting player. I have to do some more research.

I think we will answer the PG and maybe the PF via trade this Summer. Our assists are too good. So this draft was a success for us because of George alone, IMO. He is going to be a special player, has a bit of Tracy McGrady in him, at least his game reminds me of a young McGrady. :D

I would have given an A if we had gotten a PF, but beggers can't be choosers, I'll take what we got and hope it works out. Summer league should be a lot of fun for us this year.

PacerPenguins
06-25-2010, 01:54 PM
i had to give it an A. King George will be a stud!

Sparhawk
06-25-2010, 01:56 PM
I voted a B, but it's more like a B+.

Paul George...very happy about this pick. Lance is as solid a pick as you can have in the 2nd round in terms of talent.

Just wish the Pacers could have moved up to select either Hassan (guess Lance and Hassan might be a bit much), Willie Warren or Armon Johnson. That would have prompted an easy A vote.

We should definitely circle back around and vote on the Pacer's offseason once the Pacers have made their trades to land a PG.

spazzxb
06-25-2010, 01:56 PM
I never said larry was fighting 18yr bloggers, I meant larry, bloggers, everyone was in the mix with rumors and so he should be held accountable as well.

no source needed.

really i was just messing with you. My original mixing it u with an 18 year old blogger thought wasn't family friendly but lets just say it was a bit more loving. I do however believe its the fans fault for getting excited about rumors. For the actual decision makers rumors are irrelevant. Sports writers are in the entertainment business and will do whatever it takes to attract readers. Sometimes NBA "sources" could really be a "journalist" rear end.

captainC
06-25-2010, 02:04 PM
really i was just messing with you. My original mixing it u with an 18 year old blogger thought wasn't family friendly but lets just say it was a bit more loving. I do however believe its the fans fault for getting excited about rumors. For the actual decision makers rumors are irrelevant. Sports writers are in the entertainment business and will do whatever it takes to attract readers. Sometimes NBA "sources" could really be a "journalist" rear end.

No problems. Im just playing devils advocate anyways. Someone had to vote F, right??

:)

BornReady
06-25-2010, 02:10 PM
btw I feel like since Indy didn't even get a 2nd round pg, AJ Price will stay! :dance:

Sparhawk
06-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Also, to captainC. It's called strategy. If you were fighting a war and announced what you were going to to all your enemies and they believed it, then shame on them. You have to keep others guessing on what you'll do. Now, is Bird a genius tactician? Absolutely not, but it worked out.

Paul George has loads of talent and the commitment to get better and reach his potential. That is what makes him different from Shawne Williams, so please let's stop comparing him to past Pacer players. We seriously have no clue if he'll put it together, but it's not like Jon Wall is guaranteed to succeed. On pure talent, he's a very solid pick.

The same thing with Lance. His game will translate better to the NBA. He'll be able to muscle his way in and draw fouls, he'll be a bit like Artest in that fashion. I just have no clue about his D.

The only thing I'm worried about is trading for a PG. Bird has not shown that he knows how to negotiate or that he can get anything done. He waits till players have almost 0 value and then no one wants them, benching players (Tins) and expecting teams to line up when they know the Pacers will simply buy them out, etc. He's too afraid he'll give up too much and wants to come out on top of any trade.

All I care about is keeping Granger, Roy, Paul, Lance and Hansborough (who'd want him now), and everyone else should be up for grab.

OakMoses
06-25-2010, 02:15 PM
The more I think about it, I can see why we couldn't get a deal done with OKC. I'm guessing that we were demanding Maynor be included in any trade and they were saying, "No, we're not giving you Maynor, but we'll take TJ Ford off your hands."

I'm going with A for the draft, but I think it's silly to grade drafts within the first 2-3 years.

billbradley
06-25-2010, 02:18 PM
they went for it. thats all i ask for. can't make the shots you don't take.

A+

pacers_heath
06-25-2010, 02:21 PM
I give us an A. Why get a point guard now instead of when we get rid of all our contracts at the end of this season? That's just a short-sighted typical larry bird move of tweaking the team rather than rebuilding. I'm happy to see Bird changing his strategy and thinking more in terms of the future. He took the best players available at 10 & 40.

Let's get a point guard when we've had time to consider all the options and have a legitimate long term solution. Most of the PGs we were hearing about were nothing special and would just be another in and out solution at the point. Who cares if Ford plays the point this season...you could do a lot worse and we aren't exactly looking to contend this season anyway. I can handle him for another year if it will help in the long run.

Good Job, Larry. I'm proud of you.

Gamble1
06-25-2010, 02:23 PM
at first i felt the same, but thinking about it, how many teams actually did address their pg needs, aside from the wizards? miami was very similar to indy in that they didnt bite on a 2nd round pg- there has to be a reason for this imo.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I would have preferred to package the 10th pick with an expiring for a quality pg and additional picks. I certianly wouldn't consider a 2nd round pg to be a future starter for the Pacer.

I can see however how people like Seth can get peeved at the second round picks. We didn't need to take a high ceiling player. I am not necessarly against it but I can't look back and see how this draft helped us win now.

IMO Bird has less wiggle room now that the draft is done to address the pg position.

BornReady
06-25-2010, 02:23 PM
The more I think about it, I can see why we couldn't get a deal done with OKC. I'm guessing that we were demanding Maynor be included in any trade and they were saying, "No, we're not giving you Maynor, but we'll take TJ Ford off your hands."

I'm going with A for the draft, but I think it's silly to grade drafts within the first 2-3 years.

NO also received 21 and 26, not 18 and 21. Both Bledsoe and Bradley gone by then :D

BornReady
06-25-2010, 02:25 PM
Maybe I wasn't clear. I would have preferred to package the 10th pick with an expiring for a quality pg and additional picks. I certianly wouldn't consider a 2nd round pg to be a future starter for the Pacer.

I can see however how people like Seth can get peeved at the second round picks. We didn't need to take a high ceiling player. I am not necessarly against it but I can't look back and see how this draft helped us win now.

IMO Bird has less wiggle room now that the draft is done to address the pg position.

hmm I see. All indications suggest that Bird really did work the phones hard. Trades are pretty hard to come by. I'm happy Bird didn't pull a trade for the sake of making a trade. What quality PG did you have in mind?

Gamble1
06-25-2010, 02:51 PM
hmm I see. All indications suggest that Bird really did work the phones hard. Trades are pretty hard to come by. I'm happy Bird didn't pull a trade for the sake of making a trade. What quality PG did you have in mind?
Any of the ones that were mentioned on this board. I honestly thought we were going to get Maynor and a later pick. Don't get me wrong Maynor to me is a fringe starter right now for the Pacers but he is also a 2nd year player that is efficient and smart. These are 2 things that I want in a pg.

Here is my issue with keeping the pick. If you look at what we could have gotten in a packaged deal (10th + Murphy) vs Murphy alone I think there is a VERY BIG drop off in talent. I saw the 10th pick as a way of sexing up Murphy to the highest bidder for a sure fire starting pg. Now we have to settle for Felton like talent which is border line Watson like talent IMO. This isn't a win now move to me.

My real problem with all this is that "if" the sticking point of all these trades was Rush then its still that way to me in any future moves for a pg. The market value of Murphy is just not that high. Of course maybe that changes but I highly doubt it.

Edit: This goes back to the saying that you have to give to get. I just wish Bird would understand that we can't just keep plugging in Watson like pg's and expect to make the playoffs.

BillS
06-25-2010, 02:57 PM
Here is my issue with keeping the pick. If you look at what we could have gotten in a packaged deal (10th + Murphy) vs Murphy alone I think there is a VERY BIG drop off in talent.

So what do you think we were actually offered for the 10th + Murphy? Anything we really could afford cap-wise or that was worth losing a first round pick?

jhondog28
06-25-2010, 03:20 PM
Didnt we draft on potential with Shawn Williams. I will give them a C. I really do like Paul George but we could have gotten rid of TJ and picked up Bledsoe and still gotten an athletic 3/4. Just think we drafted on potential and lets face it this was a JOB pick which makes no one feel comfortable.

flox
06-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Talent wise I think we won big. Stephenson is an NBA talent. If we mixed Stephenson's brain with Rush's body I think we would have an all star- a greedy all star who might be a bit selfish and ball dominant, but an all star none the less.

George obviously is a huge talent and oozes upside.

Rolle can make it.


But I think at the end of the day going into the draft we had maybe 3 starters on an NBA level team, but I think we left with four, with a potential for five.

Seems like a good deal to me.

Gamble1
06-25-2010, 03:35 PM
So what do you think we were actually offered for the 10th + Murphy? Anything we really could afford cap-wise or that was worth losing a first round pick?
Thats a good question that only a few people are prevy to and if I knew it I would defiantly share it with you Bills.

I highly doubt we could get a top 10 pg with Murphy and the number 10 but I am sure we were offered some quality pg's for the 10th pick and Murphy. The problem is that we are not in a position of power. Every GM knows that the 10th pick is a alright pick but nothing to get too excited over and likewise is the expiring contract of Murphy. ITs also likely that other GM's wanted us to take back long term salary in which case I beleive that would be a deal breaker for Bird.

I know Bird was working hard to get us a pg but IMO he has failed to provide stability for the team with a quality pg. To me this far outweighs Rush's value + the 10 pick + Murphy contract. I hate to say this but IMO we have to overpay for a quality pg or take risk with a guy like Maynor.

IndyPacer
06-25-2010, 03:54 PM
I'd rate our actual choices as a B+ with the possibility of moving into the A range given the potential of the picks. I think even Rolle could make the roster if his work ethic is as good as he claims it to be. However, I wouldn't be surprised that our picks look like a C- while JOB is coach. JOB is already talking about how he loves George's 3-point shooting and ability to spread the floor. I feel very strongly that Danny Granger has regressed under JOB as a player. He used to spend more time defending, blocking shots, and rebounding. He's become much more of a 1-dimensional scorer under JOB in my view. I really don't want to see George become primarily a jumpshooter when he has the potential to be so much more. I'm not sure how Lance Stephenson will behave under JOB. I'm pulling for Rolle; get him on a good strength building program and get him some experience in the D league. I think he could be OK.

BornReady
06-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Thats a good question that only a few people are prevy to and if I knew it I would defiantly share it with you Bills.

I highly doubt we could get a top 10 pg with Murphy and the number 10 but I am sure we were offered some quality pg's for the 10th pick and Murphy. The problem is that we are not in a position of power. Every GM knows that the 10th pick is a alright pick but nothing to get too excited over and likewise is the expiring contract of Murphy. ITs also likely that other GM's wanted us to take back long term salary in which case I beleive that would be a deal breaker for Bird.

I know Bird was working hard to get us a pg but IMO he has failed to provide stability for the team with a quality pg. To me this far outweighs Rush's value + the 10 pick + Murphy contract. I hate to say this but IMO we have to overpay for a quality pg or take risk with a guy like Maynor.

I'm fairly certain we will come into this season with a new pg. I don't think Watson will stay in Indy, nor do I want him to. I agree with you, I want a new and young pg with upside. I'm almost positive the rest of the board would resonate with our feelings :)