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View Full Version : Convince me that Lance Stephenson was a good 2nd round pick



CableKC
06-25-2010, 12:43 AM
Other then the little that I read on DX and on NBADraft.net, please convince me that Lance Stephenson was a good pick.

It sounds like there are some off-court issues and concerns that he has had. In fact, Stephenson sounds like the exact type of pick that Bird would have stayed away from....he's a freshman....he has some off court concerns. Is he ready to contribute?

I'm sure that there is a reason why the Pacers chose to go with him despite these concerns....I just don't see why we went with him instead of going with a more NBA Ready Player that can contribute right away.

I don't even want to get into the # of SG/SFs that we have now.

I know that many of you have paid more attention then I have....so convince me to step away from the ledge.

Ozwalt72
06-25-2010, 12:45 AM
All I will say, it's a second round pick.

Let me say that again. A SECOND ROUND PICK. If you are going to take a gamble, do it here.

MyFavMartin
06-25-2010, 12:49 AM
NBA body. Can finish with contact. Can create his own shot. Not afraid of being the man. Very strong, very young, lots of potential to still learn and grow game-wise. Attacks the rim.

Many mocked him in the 20s.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/lance-stephenson

woowoo
06-25-2010, 12:49 AM
Other then the little that I read on DX and on NBADraft.net, please convince me that Lance Stephenson was a good pick.

It sounds like there are some off-court issues and concerns that he has had. In fact, Stephenson sounds like the exact type of pick that Bird would have stayed away from....he's a freshman....he has some off court concerns. Is he ready to contribute?

I'm sure that there is a reason why the Pacers chose to go with him despite these concerns....I just don't see why we went with him instead of going with a more NBA Ready Player that can contribute right away.

I don't even want to get into the # of SG/SFs that we have now.

I know that many of you have paid more attention then I have....so convince me to step away from the ledge.

I LOVE this pick..... High reward, low risk........ I hope Lance blows up..... In a "good" way.. hehe.. :)

I think the Pacers did "very" well for themselves...

Sookie
06-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Well..there's no reason to go off the ledge with a second round pick..:P

graphic-er
06-25-2010, 12:51 AM
instant offense?

CableKC
06-25-2010, 12:52 AM
All I will say, it's a second round pick.

Let me say that again. A SECOND ROUND PICK. If you are going to take a gamble, do it here.


Well..there's no reason to go off the ledge with a second round pick..:P

Maybe I'm spoiled by picking AJ Price last season and my expectations are unrealistically higher then normal.....but given our lack of talent and the limited resources that we have to improve the Team...I consider the 2nd round pick an opportunity to find a Player that could help us in the short and long term.

I admit that it maybe irrationnal to think of this way for a 2nd round pick.....but I really think that someone like Stanley Robinson or Gani Lawal could have made more sense.

MyFavMartin
06-25-2010, 12:52 AM
I'm sure he knows about our James White history and that he's on a short leash unless he wants to learn Italian from Jay Bilas.

AlexAustin
06-25-2010, 12:52 AM
Because he was born ready!

pwee31
06-25-2010, 12:53 AM
HS school player of the year 2 years ago. Bird doesn't expect him to play right away.

sheppie33
06-25-2010, 12:54 AM
Well I am from Cincy and a huge Bearcats fan. Lance cant be stopped from getting to the basket, His problem was he settled for bad jump shots. Not a great outside shooter. However, when we needed him to take over and score he did just that. So fun to watch......

Ozwalt72
06-25-2010, 12:55 AM
Maybe I'm spoiled by picking AJ Price last season and my expectations are unrealistically higher then normal.....but given our lack of talent and the limited resources that we have to improve the Team...I consider the 2nd round pick an opportunity to find a Player that could help us in the short and long term.

This guy has talent. The question is will he mature into it. He's a guy that can get his own shot, finishes well, and has solid ball handling skills. He has an NBA ready body TODAY. He's a very strong guard. Strong enough to finish through contact.

sheppie33
06-25-2010, 12:55 AM
He also was a bit of a hot head. Would get rattled easy at times. When he was calm and confident, he made big plays. Took himself out of the game sometimes. Overall i was glad he attended Cincy. Something exciting to watch for a change....

ESutt7
06-25-2010, 12:59 AM
C'mon! His nickname is Born Ready...I'm sure this will work out great!

Honestly, there are character/ego/selfishness flaws for sure, but he's always had the talent. Maybe being a 2nd round pick will wake him up/motivate/inspire him.

focused444
06-25-2010, 01:01 AM
In Larry's post draft interview he say he didn't expect him to get out of the 1st round. Thats pretty high praise coming from LL.

Potential 1st round value at 40 isn't so bad...

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2010/06/25/larrybirdpresserv2100625wmv-1357414/index.html

sheppie33
06-25-2010, 01:01 AM
Definitely a first round talent.....cant deny that.

Sookie
06-25-2010, 01:02 AM
Maybe I'm spoiled by picking AJ Price last season and my expectations are unrealistically higher then normal.....but given our lack of talent and the limited resources that we have to improve the Team...I consider the 2nd round pick an opportunity to find a Player that could help us in the short and long term.

I admit that it maybe irrationnal to think of this way for a 2nd round pick.....but I really think that someone like Stanley Robinson or Gani Lawal could have made more sense.

Stanley is alot of "fun" and might have done okay here, once AJ was healthy, and he was comfortable.

But he had a confidence issue (hence probably needing AJ...as well as for instructions.."Stanley..your guy's over there..your supposed to be on this side of the court...Stanley..pass the ball...Stanley..we're running in this direction now..Tie your shoes Stanley :laugh: I'm laughing because I'm not really exaggerating...) He really lacks basketball IQ and fundamentals.

I think if the Pacers were going to take a gamble, now is the time. He'll have the chance to prove it, and the Pacers won't have to gamble much. (probably unguaranteed contract..and possibly D League for developement.)

If he really is first round talent, that's two years in a row Larry's done that. (Price was expected to go around 19th before he injured his knee)

d_c
06-25-2010, 01:05 AM
He's a 2nd round pick, so it doesn't really matter.

That being said, I'm not really a fan of his game and I'm surprised Bird took him. But again, it's a 2nd rounder so who really cares. The vast majority of 2nd round picks aren't in an NBA team's rotation 3 years after being drafted.

imawhat
06-25-2010, 01:05 AM
I think he's a very talented player. This new article says a lot, especially a couple of things I like to hear.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5326039

Brooklyn star is headed to Indianapolis
Passed over by his hometown Knicks, Stephenson is going to work for Larry Bird

NEW YORK, N.Y. -- Near the corner of 46th and Eighth Avenue, Lance Stephenson and his father embraced each other as tears flowed from both men.

The New York high school basketball phenom had accomplished his dream of making it to the NBA when the Indiana Pacers selected him 40th overall in the second round. Stephenson may not have been a first-round pick and he was passed over by his hometown team -- the New York Knicks. Still, the Brooklyn swingman is now an Indiana Pacer and Larry Bird is his new boss.

Stephenson was overcome with all kinds of emotions ranging from joy to relief.

"This is a night I've dreamed of since I was a little boy and I got my family here to support me," said Stephenson, who was surrounded by about 60 friends and family members as his draft party at the Paramount Hotel moved out to the sidewalk in front. "I am just happy. This day came fast. There is a lot of relief. I've wanted to be in the NBA since I was a little boy. I'm very motivated. Can't even explain how motivated I am."

Stephenson had to wait longer than he had hoped for before hearing his name called. Even before he became New York's all-time high school leading scorer while at famed Lincoln High School, Stephenson had heard so many predict he would someday become a first-round pick. While he didn't fulfill that prophecy, Stephenson is thrilled to be going to Indiana and playing alongside prolific scorer Danny Granger.

"It is great to have Indiana pick me up," said Stephenson, who worked out for 10 teams including Indiana. "I think I fit in great. Danny Granger is a great player and they got players that are good so I am going to try and fit in and try to be a team player."

Certainly his friends and family members and most New Yorkers had to be hoping the Knicks would pick the hometown product with either the 38th or 39th selection they owned in the second round. But the Knicks took Syracuse shooter Andy Rautins and Stanford forward Landry Fields.

Fortunately, Stephenson didn't have to wait much longer as Bird took him with the next pick. Stephenson said he was not upset that the Knicks didn't take him and that he was not disappointed to slip out of the first round.

"I thought they (the Knicks) were going to pick me but I am just happy the Pacers picked me," Stephenson said. "I am going to try to be on the team and try to be a better player and try to fit in with the program.

Lance Sr., his father, couldn't stop tears from flowing from his red and moist eyes.

"I just wanted to hear his name called," the overjoyed father said. "Indiana, a basketball state ... I'm happy. I hope that no trades go down and he stays there."

Stephenson led Lincoln High to four consecutive PSAL AA state championships. Touted to be the next big New York City basketball product to follow in Stephon Marbury's and Sebastian Telfair's footsteps, Stephenson struggled to live up to enormous expectations. He was charged with sexual abuse for allegedly groping a girl at a bus stop near Lincoln during his senior year. Charges were dismissed and he pleaded down to disorderly conduct.

At Cincinnati, Stephenson worked to try to change his image. He earned Big East Rookie of the year honors after averaging 12.3 points and 5.4 rebounds but shot just 21.9% from beyond the three-point arc.

"All I know is he worked his butt off and he really wanted this," said Lance Sr. "Just played the games and played hard and all the hype and everything just came to him. It wasn't pre-made up. It just came to him. He's from New York but we are just so happy somebody believed in us."

Stephenson, 19, may not be a Knick but he is in the NBA. And he is highly motivated to prove several NBA teams that they were wrong to pass him over.

"Everything happens for a reason," said Al Ebanks, Stephenson's agent. "I liked Indiana since Day One. I thought it would be a perfect fit for him. There is a lot to be said about being a hometown guy playing for the hometown team. But everything worked out."

"(But) a lot of people are going to see him work extra hard to show that he belongs there. I don't think he needed any additional motivation but this certainly is something that lights a fire under him. He has a lot to prove."

I Love P
06-25-2010, 01:12 AM
I posted months ago on a draft post about lance Stephenson and how I wanted him. I was trying to find my recent posts to show a friend tonight but couldn't figure it out. I'm extremely happy with the pick. I also love the George pick this is the first draft in years I'm goin to sleep not upset.




Go Pacers

Trophy
06-25-2010, 01:14 AM
He was the best player there.

Given the time here, he's going to be effective.

With that said, he would remind me of what Marcus Thornton brought for New Orleans.

I'm glad we took him. He's a freshman, but he seems like he's ready to contribute.

cdash
06-25-2010, 01:17 AM
I like this pick. You can always have one guy with character concerns. It just becomes a problem when you are multiple guys like that, because then they start hanging out and feeding off each other's orneriness. That's one of the better Bill Simmons theories out there.

CableKC
06-25-2010, 01:23 AM
He also was a bit of a hot head. Would get rattled easy at times. When he was calm and confident, he made big plays. Took himself out of the game sometimes. Overall i was glad he attended Cincy. Something exciting to watch for a change....
You're not helping your argument. ;)

Ever since the whole brawl and every thing else that has happened to the Pacers....I've always believed that it was bet to minimize the # of "variables" that could affect how a Team performs on and off the court. Variable such as whether he keeps his head in the game or not are things I want to eliminate from the whole "equation" when it comes to the Team.

cdash
06-25-2010, 01:27 AM
You're not helping your argument. ;)

Ever since the whole brawl and every thing else that has happened to the Pacers....I've always believed that it was bet to minimize the # of "variables" that could affect how a Team performs on and off the court. Variable such as whether he keeps his head in the game or not are things I want to eliminate from the whole "equation" when it comes to the Team.

I don't think it's a big deal. You didn't invest much in the guy, you can take a chance on him. For all the off court stuff, we keep leaving out that he was on his best behavior at Cincinnati. I like it because he has a higher ceiling than someone like Lawal or Torrance or whoever else was there. I'll accept arguments with Willie Warren there too.

CableKC
06-25-2010, 01:28 AM
I like this pick. You can always have one guy with character concerns. It just becomes a problem when you are multiple guys like that, because then they start hanging out and feeding off each other's orneriness. That's one of the better Bill Simmons theories out there.
I remember something someone here ( maybe Hicks, Shade or someone else ) said about having Players with charecter concerns....as long as it's not a Primary Starter.....then it should be okay.

I'm still on the fence with him....but I guess we'll see in Summer League and whether we actually keep him. I just hope that we clear up some of the SG/SF rotation. We have nearly as many SG/SF as the Warriors.

quinnthology
06-25-2010, 02:28 AM
Was Brandon Rush ready to contribute?.... No. There goes any standards Bird has.

Lance Stephenson is a freak and has a huge ceiling. Whether or not he will ever reach it is unknown, but the pick was a huge steal in the 2nd round seeing as he was at some points this summer listed at 19 in the first round. I freaked when we made this pick, I literally ran into the other room and jumped on the bed. I've been following this guy for a few years (mainly because of all the Born Ready, LeBron comparisons) and I can't even express how satisfied I am when I see we took him.

odeez
06-25-2010, 02:46 AM
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KOAyUMH2Tng&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KOAyUMH2Tng&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

This video is nice featuring Lance Stephenson vs OJ Mayo. The video quality is sketchy, but worth a watch...

odeez
06-25-2010, 02:55 AM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MQkF9eoy70c&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MQkF9eoy70c&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Draft Combine interview: He says he thinks he will be an All-Star in five years at 3:35 mark!

odeez
06-25-2010, 02:56 AM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eO5vJz11u9w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eO5vJz11u9w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Dunking over Demarcus Cousins, nice!!!

odeez
06-25-2010, 03:00 AM
He obviously had ridicules talent. He gets to the rim like no ones business and can finish like, wow! But in the interview and other research he comes off as being young and a bit of a hot head. But for the second round he is a steal. Between him and George we got a whole lot more athletic and have two players that can attack the rim! I like him at 40, no brainer, take a chance, let's see what he does in summer league... at least now I have something basketball wise to look forward to >>>

quinnthology
06-25-2010, 03:09 AM
at least now I have something basketball wise to look forward to >>>

this

Day-V
06-25-2010, 03:28 AM
http://pancakedominion.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/obi-wan.jpg

This is the 2nd round pick you were looking for.

quinnthology
06-25-2010, 05:40 AM
Now that I think about it, I like someone who had been projected as far as late 2nd round to say he thinks he will be an All-Star in 5 years. I don't think it's a negative or cocky at all really. If it's a lottery pick who's saying, "I'm gonna go in there, take it over and be an all-star," I find it more cocky. But with a player who people are kind of writing off, I find it confident and wanting to prove everyone wrong. There is something admirable in a person who truly believes he can overcome the odds, even if it's unrealistic. Although in this case I think Lance can definitely be an All-Star one day. Second rounders have been All-Stars before. It's rare, sure, but not many second rounders can score like Lance.

woowoo
06-25-2010, 06:03 AM
I remember something someone here ( maybe Hicks, Shade or someone else ) said about having Players with charecter concerns....as long as it's not a Primary Starter.....then it should be okay.

I'm still on the fence with him....but I guess we'll see in Summer League and whether we actually keep him. I just hope that we clear up some of the SG/SF rotation. We have nearly as many SG/SF as the Warriors.

I think there is still definitely a trade for a PG in the works.... there has to be...

Major Cold
06-25-2010, 06:36 AM
We bag on Larry for always going for milk drinkers. We make white jokes and expect a cup cake personality every time. We complain that the team has no grit in the season. We acknowledge that Bird never goes for potential, always taking upper class players with upper class class.

I think rolling the dice on a 2nd round non-guaranteed contract is a perfect compromise to the above observations. Especially when the player was a 1st round talent.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 07:06 AM
[QUOTE=Ozwalt72;1018366]All I will say, it's a second round pick.

Let me say that again. A SECOND ROUND PICK. If you are going to take a gamble, do it here.[/QUOTE


EVERY PICK that is choosen is a gamble. Bird didn't address any needs by drafting Stephenson... none what so ever. Stephenson isn't even a combo guard. Nothing but a straight SG. Bird had an opportunity to draft Lawal/Garcia at PF, Jordan, or a # of PG's. If he was going to take a gamble, another SG wasn't something to gamble on. Gamble on a position of need if you have to take a gamble.

Why gamble on a freshman with off court problems? This pick reminds me of him picking James "Flight" White." AND we know how that turned out!

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 07:15 AM
In Larry's post draft interview he say he didn't expect him to get out of the 1st round. Thats pretty high praise coming from LL.


Yes, and just a few years ago Bird said White could just have easily have been their #17 pick instead of Shawne Williams. How'd that workout?

Bird's comment is the SOS, same old spiel, the Pacers give every year on players they draft trying to drum up support and good PR.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 07:30 AM
I think there is still definitely a trade for a PG in the works.... there has to be...


I couldn't agree more with you, and I suspect Rush will be involved after seeing the who the 1st 2 picks were.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-25-2010, 07:30 AM
We're rebuilding, we don't draft on need.

Why draft another backup PF?

What PG was on the board? The undersized Collins? Torrance with the heart condition?

When you sorely need talent, you go with the best player available. So when you have a shot at grabbing a player with first round talent with the 40th pick you don't pass that up and draft a backup at best because he fits a need. Lance has a HUGE ceiling.

I posted this in the draft thread on realgm back in April:


Re: 2010 Draft Discussion

Postby Kuq_e_Zi91 on Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:32 am


You mean the sexual assault case? He was just getting an early jump on Kobe. That was in high school. I believe he was 18, she was 17. He's the basketball star getting hyped by ESPN and every magazine and media outlet possible, and she said he grabbed her *** and felt her breasts. A high school kid grabbing a girls *** in school. That happens everywhere, especially in a place like Coney Island. I'm not condoning what he did by saying it's not uncommon, I'm just saying his celeb status might have played a role in filing charges.

Anyway, I think he's matured. He has a daughter now. He's still young (doesn't turn 20 till September), so he'll go through more growing pains, but having a kid can change your whole mentality on things.

The talent is undeniable. Not even in his sophomore year in high school yet, he played in the "Elite 24" game in Rucker Park against the top 24 high school players in the nation. And not only did he play, he dropped 34 points and won co-MVP alongside the older Tyreke Evans and Brandon Jennings. As a junior, he was named to USA Today's All USA team, the only player not a senior on the list. I'm telling you, guys. Whoever takes a chance on Lance is getting one hell of a steal. After all, it's only a second round pick.

I also think the Knicks passing on him TWICE did us a huge favor. The questions about Lance are all about his mentality and whether he's focused enough. What better way to get his attention and motivate him than his hometown team passing on him twice? He's going to come in hungry and with a chip on his shoulder and personally, I can't wait.

Great draft, Larry.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 07:40 AM
I hope Stephenson just isn't another Williams or White.... players with great "P" but with problems. I'm disappointed in Bird's last 2 picks, b/c of who was still on the board. Stephenson, as a SG, is just another SG on a team with more wings than an ostrich farm has. All his "P" isn't going to do anything sitting on the end of the bench or more aptly sitting behind the bench in civies..

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 08:07 AM
We're rebuilding, we don't draft on need.

Why draft another backup PF?

Torrance with the heart condition?

That's funny. Just exactly what did Bird draft Price for if not need of a PG in the 2nd round last year.

Are you guaranteeing Hansbrough will play this year at his normal self? The year after? That Foster won't have health problems? If not, then you draft a PF like Lawal as insurance, unless you are one of those in favor of seeing D Jones and Dun playing PF.

I never heard anything about Torrance having a heart problem until during the draft? What type heart problem and just how bad is it? He just played 4 years old college BB and had numerous pre-draft workouts, so how bad is it? Apparently, not so bad if he's willing to gamble on his life.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-25-2010, 08:34 AM
That's funny. Just exactly what did Bird draft Price for if not need of a PG in the 2nd round last year.

Are you guaranteeing Hansbrough will play this year at his normal self? The year after? That Foster won't have health problems? If not, then you draft a PF like Lawal as insurance, unless you are one of those in favor of seeing D Jones and Dun playing PF.

I never heard anything about Torrance having a heart problem until during the draft? What type heart problem and just how bad is it? He just played 4 years old college BB and had numerous pre-draft workouts, so how bad is it? Apparently, not so bad if he's willing to gamble on his life.

Price was the 9th to last pick in the draft. Before the knee injury he was projected clear first round. He was clearly best player available, being a PG was the cherry on top.

Nope, in fact I'm pretty worried about Tyler's health myself. As for Foster, I didn't agree with that extension in the first place and I would have looked to trade him (like to Denver for example) by now, so I'm not comfortable with him either. And I don't think anyone here is in favor of DJones or Dun at PF. Still, the fact remains all we have are backup PFs. Why draft another one just for the sake of depth when you can take a chance on a player with HUGE upside. Regardless of position, it's a value pick.

I don't have the details on Torrance's heart condition but it was bad enough to have every team pass on him. I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days. If he's really healthy enough to play and passes medical tests, we can still add him later on in the summer.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-25-2010, 09:10 AM
Lance Stephenson, scholar-athlete?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2010/05/04/stephenson-schaffer-among-uc-scholar-athletes/

Lance Stephenson, who has decided to leave UC after one basketball season for the NBA draft, is the Bearcatsí scholar-athlete for winter quarter in menís basketball. He was majoring in Exploratory Studies.

Not quite Danny Granger's "30 on the ACT, accepted to Yale", but from a guy who has had major questions about his maturity and mentality, it shows he has made some pretty big strides.

Honest question, did Shawne Williams or James White ever excel in the classroom? I realize this doesn't put an end to the comparisons, I just wanted to shed some light on a side of Lance that might surprise some people.

JB24
06-25-2010, 09:18 AM
Yes, and just a few years ago Bird said White could just have easily have been their #17 pick instead of Shawne Williams. How'd that workout?

Bird's comment is the SOS, same old spiel, the Pacers give every year on players they draft trying to drum up support and good PR.

To be fair, it really does look like they thought he wouldn't be there.


Fortune also smiled on the Pacers, who, sources say, unsuccessfully tried to buy a late first-round pick for $3 million and an early second-rounder for $1.5 million to take Lance Stephenson, a former New York phenom. Despite their failed efforts, Stephenson fell to the Pacers anyway at No. 40.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiLuhOKsC3S2qXsIZ7zsxGu8vLYF?slug=mc-draftwinnerslosers062510

Targaflorio
06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
I was really hoping we would draft Ebanks with this pick. I haven't seen Stephenson play that much so I will defer to people who have. I just really like Ebanks's versatility on the defensive end, and i think his offense will continue to get better.

Granville
06-25-2010, 09:27 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/rounds/_/year/2010/round/2

Here is what Chad Ford says about the pick:

10(40) Indiana Lance Stephenson 6-6 227 SG Cincinnati
I really like this pick. He was the Big East freshman of the year after being a blue-chip recruit. His game is well-suited for the NBA. He got a rep as a selfish player in high school, but he's a first-round talent all the way.

MagicRat
06-25-2010, 09:34 AM
It's been too long since the Pacers have had a Rucker Park legend.......:woot:

MLB007
06-25-2010, 09:36 AM
OR we could trade him for a big man! ;)

1984
06-25-2010, 09:37 AM
A.J. Price had similar concerns that cost him draft pisition. \

A.J. 2.0 is convincing to me.

SkipperZ
06-25-2010, 09:37 AM
Considering 80% of 2nd rounders are out of the league within 3 yrs, I think getting a player with ?ance's talent is a coup. I think lance has a much higher ceiling than brandon rush.


I'm glad larry ignored nba rreadiness and characgter and just chose the most talented player available with paul george and lance... he finally recognized that this team was devoid of talent and made basketball moves instead of marketing movees... mayhbe watching ron ron win gmae 7 for la flipped a switch

Sparhawk
06-25-2010, 09:55 AM
The Pacers are an ideal situation for Lance. His game translates better to the NBA. He can actually create and get his own shot and attacks the rim. Haven't we been saying we need that out of our SG.

Lance has some character issues, but the Pacers are chalked full of high character players. You think Hansborough will let him get out of line? or Foster? Or Granger? I think they'll all be good mentors for him.

I just hope he isn't trade fodder. Everyone keeps saying Rush is gone now. He'd be gone now if a team actually wanted him. Lance might be the guy that will have to get traded. I truly hope not, cause he could be a very exciting player in a couple of years.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 10:04 AM
I just hope he isn't trade fodder. Everyone keeps saying Rush is gone now. He'd be gone now if a team actually wanted him. Lance might be the guy that will have to get traded. I truly hope not, cause he could be a very exciting player in a couple of years.

Not really... I think we were reluctant b/c we w wear lacking young depth at the wing till now... before the draft if we traded Rush we'd just have Danny, Dun, and Dahntay... not much there after Danny huh?

But now after the draft is another story...

ChicagoJ
06-25-2010, 10:14 AM
If you are going to take a gamble, do it here.

And if you're going to gamble, there was a lottery-talent player available (taken two spots later) whose stock fell from an ACL.

Butler's knee will recover, and he'll have a long, productive NBA career.

Who cares if he's ready for training camp or not. We spent a first rounder last year on a guy that wasn't ready for traning camp and then had a season-ending injury, and we weren't that much worse...

Sparhawk
06-25-2010, 10:16 AM
Not really... I think we were reluctant b/c we w wear lacking young depth at the wing till now... before the draft if we traded Rush we'd just have Danny, Dun, and Dahntay... not much there after Danny huh?

But now after the draft is another story...

Hope you are correct!

naptownmenace
06-25-2010, 10:18 AM
Considering 80% of 2nd rounders are out of the league within 3 yrs, I think getting a player with ?ance's talent is a coup. I think lance has a much higher ceiling than brandon rush.


I'm glad larry ignored nba rreadiness and characgter and just chose the most talented player available with paul george and lance... he finally recognized that this team was devoid of talent and made basketball moves instead of marketing movees... mayhbe watching ron ron win gmae 7 for la flipped a switch

I was thinking something very similar. He reminds me Gilbert Arenas and Tyreke Evans the way he can penetrate and finish at the rim. He's built like Evans and can play through contact and hit a lot of ridiculous shots at the basket.

The best thing about him is the Pacers got him with a 2nd round pick! They don't have to pay him that much or not at all if he doesn't pan out over the summer and preseason. However, I think he'll make the team because I still think that SG is a position of weakness. They have depth there but none of their SGs have All-Star potential. Stephenson has that.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I hope Stephenson chooses to wear #7... so we have a 24/7 thing going on with him and George :p:D

Mourning
06-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Didn't really know much about him, but I've read up on him and I really am liking this pick the more I read about him and where we picked him. Sure, doesn't come across like a milk-drinker AT ALL. OTOH like cdash allready mentioned having one guy with a an attitude is ok, having more of them on the same team has a pretty decent chance of creating big problems.

I'm very, very happy with how our draft went and I think Larry, Morway & Co. did a very good job at first sight. How it all plays out? We just will have to see.

Going for position when we have so many needs and a lot of player turnover continuing this summer and the next, I think, wouldn't have been a wise decision at all. We need talent pretty much everywhere and now we' ve got players who might be appealing to other teams aswell (Rush, Roy, George and the expiring squad) in making deals with us this summer, near the trade deadline or next summer. Otherwise we keep them and let them get better, but our flexibility in making deals the rest of the year just got better and maybe this will motivate Rush a bit more too if he's still with us this fall (I love his D, but would like to see him more like a backup SG/SF player, depending on the opposition)

At the sametime we took a few guys who just have a decent chance of becoming interesting for other teams as add-ons in trades, like Lance. And if he really dissappoints this summer... we don't have to give him a contract.

To me this was pretty much the best the Pacers could do.

Just my :twocents:

billbradley
06-25-2010, 10:35 AM
It's been too long since the Pacers have had a Rucker Park legend.......:woot:

about a month until basketball reference needs renewal

naptownmenace
06-25-2010, 10:42 AM
Here's a nice article out of Cincinnati about Stephenson being drafted by the Pacers:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100624/SPT0101/6250383/1062/SPT/Pacers-choose-ex-UC-standout-in-second-round




Pacers choose ex-UC standout in second round
By Bill Koch • bkoch@enquirer.com • June 24, 2010

When Mick Cronin flew to New York after last season to meet with Lance Stephenson and his family about the NBA draft, the University of Cincinnati basketball coach had one overriding piece of advice: If Stephenson was serious about getting drafted, he should jump in with both feet.

"We all agreed it was best not to waver and test the waters and wait," Cronin said.

"If he's going to do it, he needs to go do it, and go train hard and get ready. We knew he was a guy who at that time was thought of as a second-round guy. He was going to have to go full steam to change some people's mind and show that he is worthy of a first-round pick."

Stephenson took Cronin's advice to heart, dedicating himself to getting in better condition and improving his game.

Late Thursday night, the 6-foot-5 guard from Brooklyn, N.Y., was drafted by the Indiana Pacers in the second round with the 40th pick. His contract will not be guaranteed.

Once Stephenson decided to leave school, he moved to Las Vegas to train at Impact Basketball.

"I know the people that have trained him and they've raved about him since Day One," Cronin said.

"His work ethic was never an issue here. Any team I've talked to my message has always been you never have to worry about him loving the game and wanting to be in the gym."

Stephenson led the Bearcats in scoring during his one year at UC, averaging 12.3 points to earn the Big East Conference rookie of the year award.

But those were not the eye-popping numbers that many expected from the leading scorer in the history of New York state basketball, a player who was given the nickname "Born Ready."

Even Stephenson was disappointed in his production. He said on March 9 that he planned to return to UC for his sophomore year because, he said, he didn't "show everybody the Lance Stephenson that everybody wanted to see."

Cronin spent a lot of time during the spring talking to NBA scouts about Stephenson. He told them all the same thing.

"It's not all about the money," Cronin said. "The guy's got a huge chip on his shoulder to prove how good of a player he is."

The last UC player to be drafted by an NBA team was James White, who was taken in 2006 with the 31st overall selection by the Portland Trail Blazers in the second round.

The last first-round pick from UC was Jason Maxiell, who was taken with the 26th selection by the Detroit Pistons.

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2010, 10:49 AM
This guy to me looks like the classic elite talent who will never put it together in his head. Hope he proves me wrong. There's a lot of people on here who are really excited about him... I'm just not seeing it.

bphil
06-25-2010, 10:54 AM
Kid definitely seems to have the fire in him, but that can only take you so far in the NBA...

ChicagoJ
06-25-2010, 11:07 AM
By the way, he sounds a lot like Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson to me.

Best suited to be a sixth man - change of pace player.

I would not assume this type of player would challenge Rush for the starting spot, but would be the counter-punch at 18-22 minutes/ game.

I think you might find he's a bit too assertive to fit in well with Granger and Hibbert on the court.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 11:14 AM
By the way, he sounds a lot like Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson to me.

Best suited to be a sixth man - change of pace player.

I would not assume this type of player would challenge Rush for the starting spot, but would be the counter-punch at 18-22 minutes/ game.

I think you might find he's a bit too assertive to fit in well with Granger and Hibbert on the court.

:amen::iagree:

...always a great thing to have available :)

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 11:29 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiLuhOKsC3S2qXsIZ7zsxGu8vLYF?slug=mc-draftwinnerslosers062510


That's interesting. I just hope the CIB don't get wind of Simon willing to spend 3 mil on a draft pick.


I will give Bird credit when credit is due, and I think he left no stone unturned in trying to make things happen in this draft.

I also believe that a PG is in the works thru a trade after FA is opened up for teams to trade. Again, Bird seems to be on a rentless search for a PG, and I hope he finds a one in a good trade for the Pacers.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=SkipperZ;1018694]

Considering 80% of 2nd rounders are out of the league within 3 yrs, QUOTE]


I believe if you take the time and do research you'll find your statement is incorrect. I did this a few years ago to win an argument, and IIRC, it's around 33% or 1/3 were still in the NBA.

This is why I think there is more value to 2nd rounders than many do. Look at Miami's draft of 4 2nds, and then look at Ford's grade for Miami's draft.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 11:44 AM
Everyone keeps saying Rush is gone now. He'd be gone now if a team actually wanted him.


Not if Rush is part of a trade involving a FA. That trade can't happen until FA is opened up for teams to deal after somewhere around July 8. Or teams are just sorting out their drafting to see where they are.

Naptown_Seth
06-25-2010, 11:49 AM
3rd edit - I didn't even realize they didn't keep the FSU PF and traded for Rolle. Not that this makes me feel better really, just means the references are a bit off...:)


Maybe I'm spoiled by picking AJ Price last season and my expectations are unrealistically higher then normal.....but given our lack of talent and the limited resources that we have to improve the Team...I consider the 2nd round pick an opportunity to find a Player that could help us in the short and long term.

I admit that it maybe irrationnal to think of this way for a 2nd round pick.....but I really think that someone like Stanley Robinson or Gani Lawal could have made more sense.
I fully agree. I would have taken Jordan and run out of the room laughing about it.

And leaving quality guys like Robinson and Lawal, guys who were ALSO mocked in the top 20 at times (which is exactly why I scouted them), when they fall to you just seems dumb for a team that can't afford this type of risk.

Going for the homerun or big bust here ala James White just doesn't make sense. You already took a huge risk at pick 10 for the HR or bust.


There were too many quality players left on the board in round 2 to throw up your hands and go chasing.


Don't even get me started on the FSU kid over Robinson after you passed on some much better bigs at 40. Is Lance really that much less a gamble than SRob? No. Is the FSU kid in the ballpark of Jordan, Ndiaye or Lawal? No.

So you blew it. Go big at 40, get SRob at 57 and you just got the same "risky wing" and "bench big", except more overall and proven talent.


It's not that these guys make or break your team...maybe...it's the overriding mentality at work, or lack of vision, or falling in love with potential.

I mean how in the F do you pass on Holiday last year when you NEEDED a PG, taking the 25 year old low potential Hans, then turn around and gamble big twice at the wing when you still need a PG and PF help.


Sorry, the draft is starting to sink in and now I'm sober and stewing. Seems like a truckload of missed opportunities.




edit - good lord, I forgot about Butler on the board there too. Insane how many guys they stepped over to get all 3 of their picks.


2nd edit - okay, I officially have no faith in TPTB ability to gauge any player values in the draft, they have no idea how other teams see prospects

Fortune also smiled on the Pacers, who, sources say, unsuccessfully tried to buy a late first-round pick for $3 million and an early second-rounder for $1.5 million to take Lance Stephenson, a former New York phenom. Despite their failed efforts, Stephenson fell to the Pacers anyway at No. 40.

Naptown_Seth
06-25-2010, 11:51 AM
By the way, he sounds a lot like Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson to me.
LaceDarius Dunn, Baylor, stayed in school this year. They even did a side by side video comparison during one of the Baylor games. This is why I'm such a big Dunn fan.

Don't worry, the Pacers won't draft him.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 12:02 PM
2nd edit - okay, I officially have no faith in TPTB ability to gauge any player values in the draft, they have no idea how other teams see prospects

You were campagning for Stanly Robinson as a mid 1st rounder not to long ago right... I'll leave my arguement there :-p

naptownmenace
06-25-2010, 12:03 PM
[QUOTE=SkipperZ;1018694]

Considering 80% of 2nd rounders are out of the league within 3 yrs, QUOTE]


I believe if you take the time and do research you'll find your statement is incorrect. I did this a few years ago to win an argument, and IIRC, it's around 33% or 1/3 were still in the NBA.

This is why I think there is more value to 2nd rounders than many do. Look at Miami's draft of 4 2nds, and then look at Ford's grade for Miami's draft.


I think if you look at each year's draft seperately, you'll find that the 80% per year number is pretty accurate. For instance, 79% of the 2nd round picks in 2007 were out of the league this past season. Only 7 players were under contract and played for an NBA team during 2009-10.

Speed
06-25-2010, 12:09 PM
NBA ready body at 19 is impressive. Definitely some of the tightest handles I've seen since Tinsley.

My concerns are he is a guy who needs the ball in his hands to optimize his ability, won't happen in the Pacers current offense, which will lead to frustration by not being used right. Frustration for fans and him.

Indiana fans appreciate substance over style and may not be patient while he slips into street ball as he's learning.

Listen both of these young guys need coached up and experience. I'm not sure the program is in place to manage either of those things.

Otherwise, I think talent wise he's an excellent pick.

MLB007
06-25-2010, 12:18 PM
Hope you are correct!

Maybe eventually, but he was a freshman showboat who pouted and yelled at teammates after mistakes that were his fault.
He aint' beatin NOBODY out until he grows up. And that won't be next year.
If Dunleavy is healthy again we are back to very strong at that position.
And Jones ain't THAT bad either.

ChicagoJ
06-25-2010, 12:22 PM
edit - good lord, I forgot about Butler on the board there too. Insane how many guys they stepped over to get all 3 of their picks.

Probably hard to justify a "need" for taking Butler at #40 when your best player and the guy you just selected at #10 both play SF (along with Dunleavy, too.)

I think its fair to wonder which player will be the better SF in three years: Butler or George. Assuming Butler's knee heals, which may take some time but it will heal, then George really has to hit his upside potential to become as good as Butler already is.

I understand Butler falling to the second round with the ACL. I don't understand him falling below #32 (as I understand why the German kid went at #31.) Given that he was still available at #40 made him a no-brainer for the Pacers. Just showcase George enough as a rookie that somebody else overpays for his upside (even if it is still 2-3 years away) in a trade. That's why you take the BPA - you don't have to keep them you have to maximize the value of your assets.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 12:30 PM
I had Lawal and Jordan on my short list of players to draft at #40, both had been ranked at one time like Stephenson as 1st round picks, and I couldn't believe they were still there when it came time to draft. Stephenson wasn't even anyone I had even considered drafting. I was looking to draft a big, and the selection of Stephenson just totally caught me off guard, especially after drafting a wing in George. Then N'Diaye got drafted 1 selection b4 the Pacers at #57 with the Pacers taking someone I had never heard of. Rumplestitskin just set in. I'm still not happy, but hopefully Stephenson will workout for the future.

At #57, I'd still have drafted Torrance as a PG, and taken a chance on his heart problem being ok. It's a #57 pick! What's to loose at #57? If his heart problem becomes a non-issue, someone else will beat the Pacers to play in their summer league. Take a chance, there is no guarantee Magnum will ever make the team. JMOAA

MLB007
06-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I was really hoping we would draft Ebanks with this pick. I haven't seen Stephenson play that much so I will defer to people who have. I just really like Ebanks's versatility on the defensive end, and i think his offense will continue to get better.

I only saw Ebanks a couple of times, but I wasn't impressed.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 12:43 PM
At #57, I'd still have drafted Torrance as a PG, and taken a chance on his heart problem being ok. It's a #57 pick! What's to loose at #57? If his heart problem becomes a non-issue, someone else will beat the Pacers to play in their summer league. Take a chance, there is no guarantee Magnum will ever make the team. JMOAA

We traded... soo really we drafted Rolle at 51... OKC was the ones drafting at 57...

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 01:02 PM
[QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1018867]


I think if you look at each year's draft seperately, you'll find that the 80% per year number is pretty accurate. For instance, 79% of the 2nd round picks in 2007 were out of the league this past season. Only 7 players were under contract and played for an NBA team during 2009-10.


You might want to review that again. I counted 9 which is 30%.

1) Carl Landry

2) Ramon Sessions

3) Glen Davis

4) Josh McRoberts

5) Chris Richard

6) Dominic McGuire

7) Mark Gasol

8) Aaron Gray

9) Kyrylo Fesenko

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 01:16 PM
We traded... soo really we drafted Rolle at 51... OKC was the ones drafting at 57...


It was never stated while I was watching the draft that OKC had traded the #51 for the #57 and money until "after" OKC and the Pacers had drafted. It showed Stern saying OKC drafted Magnum Rolle at #51. It really makes no difference b/c a chance to get Torrance was completely wasted.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 01:23 PM
I was talking 2 Bird about Paul & he kept bringing Lance up in the convo. Lance has red flags, but Bird is confident that it's in the past.
8 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

Via: M Grady (http://twitter.com/mg_indy/status/17030606551)

Magic P
06-25-2010, 01:45 PM
^^^

Larry Legend is desperate if he's willing to bring in some knuckleheads after the Artest/Jackson debacle.

billbradley
06-25-2010, 02:03 PM
i caught the dan dakich show a bit ago. dakich raved about stephenson's motor. he admitted he wasn't sure how polished he was, but couldn't stop going on about his drive and competitiveness. i think he was calling out brandon rush when he would explain that you won't have worry about this guy "going through the motions" or "finishing around the rim."

stephenson's cinci coach was on the show and said the same things. he added that lance needs to work on when to shoot and when to pass and working in a half court offense. but "in transition he is as good as john wall" and can "play nba man defensense without question." also, he said that the pacers did their homework better than any other team. went to many practices and talked to his family, open line of communication with coach. apperently he has cut ties with all of his former friends and just hangs out with teammates.

wells then came on and suggested that spurs "really like rush" and said they would have done a george hill deal, but bird wanted to wait on summer league before giving up on rush. my guess is if our picks are as advertised, rush is gone for a PG.

i'm not sure when the interviews will be up, just heard it 30 min ago

tadscout
06-25-2010, 02:10 PM
wells then came on and suggested that spurs "really like rush" and said they would have done a george hill deal, but bird wanted to wait on summer league before giving up on rush. my guess is if our picks are as advertised, rush is gone for a PG.

i'm not sure when the interviews will be up, just heard it 30 min ago

Ohhh Rush for Hill?

billbradley
06-25-2010, 02:11 PM
NBA draft 2010: Winners & losers
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Al.pYzIzOMdp8cXdmDgMQyI5nYcB?slug=mc-draftwinnerslosers062510
Marc J. Spears



Fortune also smiled on the Pacers, who, sources say, unsuccessfully tried to buy a late first-round pick for $3 million and an early second-rounder for $1.5 million to take Lance Stephenson, a former New York phenom. Despite their failed efforts, Stephenson fell to the Pacers anyway at No. 40.

billbradley
06-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Ohhh Rush for Hill?

he didn't elaborate, i would have to assume it was more complicated

tadscout
06-25-2010, 02:17 PM
he didn't elaborate, i would have to assume it was more complicated

yeah, one for one doesn't work... hmmm

Sparhawk
06-25-2010, 02:18 PM
I would love to have George Hill for Rush.

BornReady
06-25-2010, 02:18 PM
I had Lawal and Jordan on my short list of players to draft at #40, both had been ranked at one time like Stephenson as 1st round picks, and I couldn't believe they were still there when it came time to draft. Stephenson wasn't even anyone I had even considered drafting. I was looking to draft a big, and the selection of Stephenson just totally caught me off guard, especially after drafting a wing in George. Then N'Diaye got drafted 1 selection b4 the Pacers at #57 with the Pacers taking someone I had never heard of. Rumplestitskin just set in. I'm still not happy, but hopefully Stephenson will workout for the future.

At #57, I'd still have drafted Torrance as a PG, and taken a chance on his heart problem being ok. It's a #57 pick! What's to loose at #57? If his heart problem becomes a non-issue, someone else will beat the Pacers to play in their summer league. Take a chance, there is no guarantee Magnum will ever make the team. JMOAA
I personally loved this draft, but I also understand your concerns (along with Seth) On the plus side, we can STILL get Torrance :D

flox
06-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Stephenson is a great pick for the Pacers and can probably start for us, and I would not be surprised if he turns out to be the starter for us. Very physical, gets to the rim, draws fouls, has a great motor, always looks to score (which from watching Rush, I didn't know could happen anymore), and is a great talent. I think with his drive and his ability to outcare about basketball, I think he will probably end up starting for us and put up decent numbers.

This was a steal. I can't think of anyone other than Robinson I wanted more than Stephenson.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 04:18 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.

flox
06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.

Yeah, I guess that's true. But Stephenson just oozes talent. He reminds me a bit of Malik Hariston- recruited out of high school, has a lot of talent, didn't meet that in school, but eventually made it to the NBA and stuck around in the rotation and produced well in limited minutes.

BornReady
06-25-2010, 04:29 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.

I'm going to admit that I did not follow this board at that time. Could you please tell me what was said about these players at that time? Thanks :)

Day-V
06-25-2010, 05:15 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.

Can't Pacers fans have 1 day where they're excited about something?

ChicagoJ
06-25-2010, 05:24 PM
Can't Pacers fans have 1 day where they're excited about something?

Sure. But base it on something real.

We drafted two guys with a lot of upside. If/ when they hit that upside, we'll have plenty to be excited about. I wouldn't expect these guys to get a lot of minutes next season under any coach. Rush and Hibbert were more polished (which everyone hated because it meant they had less upside) and they had a hard time getting the minutes we wanted them to get.

If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college. That's not exactly a sure thing.

Remember: "raw" may be exciting but also takes a lot more time than "polished".

avoidingtheclowns
06-25-2010, 05:25 PM
ChicagoJ making an early case for Sunshiner of the Year...

flox
06-25-2010, 06:00 PM
Sure. But base it on something real.

We drafted two guys with a lot of upside. If/ when they hit that upside, we'll have plenty to be excited about. I wouldn't expect these guys to get a lot of minutes next season under any coach. Rush and Hibbert were more polished (which everyone hated because it meant they had less upside) and they had a hard time getting the minutes we wanted them to get.

If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college. That's not exactly a sure thing.

Remember: "raw" may be exciting but also takes a lot more time than "polished".

I think we can be excited enough that they have NBA ready bodies, NBA ready scoring games, and can make an impact on the offensive end immediately. Rush and Hibbert had polished college games but had other problems such as mentality (rush) and speed (hibbert),

George has an NBA ready frame, an NBA ready jumpshot, has worked with Danny, and definitely seems ready to make an impact on day one with his offense.

Stephenson can force himself to the line and will only get better by going against Dahntay and TJ, while I am not a fan of Dahntay if Stephenson learns some of the tricks to get to the rim like Dahntay and TJ does, I think he'll be ready to come in and give us instant offense, penetration, and a power game.

There is plenty to be excited about day one. I think Stephenson and George can be ready to make an impact in game one with less crippling limitations than the flaws of Rush and Hibbert had- they are much easier to overcome.

Gamble1
06-25-2010, 06:00 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.
Well since we lost all those threads....:devil:

If I remember right there was a lot of pissed off people during that draft too. I think PD members were more excited about our second round pick that year than our first.

BlueNGold
06-25-2010, 06:16 PM
He also was a bit of a hot head. Would get rattled easy at times. When he was calm and confident, he made big plays. Took himself out of the game sometimes. Overall i was glad he attended Cincy. Something exciting to watch for a change....

He sounds like a smaller version of Stephen Jackson without the occasional hot streak from 3. I suppose the Pacers investigated him thoroughly, but things hardly ever change that quickly or easily.

On the other hand, the team's reputation is still terrible with the public...so another incident or two will not impact anything.

90'sNBARocked
06-25-2010, 06:16 PM
WOW, the kood-aide is really flowing! It reminds me so much what was being said about Williams and White just a few years ago.

No Kool aid bro

Lance has been the real deal for a long time. He didnt become a NYC "legend" because he is pretty, or has nice hair

Dude can ball for real, and I for one am going to love rubbing it in people's face down the road

(not trying to bash you personally)

He was a McDonalds all-american, a top 5 recruit in the nation, big east player of the year. many scouts felt he was a lottery pick potentially


That kool aid tastes quite good right now

I admit I have been one of the most vocal Bird bashers here, but

Hot dam, Bird and company turned the ship back in the right direction

Major Cold
06-25-2010, 06:31 PM
okay, I officially have no faith in TPTB ability to gauge any player values in the draft, they have no idea how other teams see prospects
No Frackin' way Seth:-o

I thought you officially had no faith since you have been ripping apart all the decisions or non-decisions they have made. A second rounder made it official but Hans (who you have been ripping apart for awhile) didn't?


Sorry, the draft is starting to sink in and now I'm sober and stewing. Seems like a truckload of missed opportunities.Give anything time and it seems you got a truckload of complaints.


I understand the what could haves and should have beens. But seriously Lawal was the next Arthur. N'diaye the next Mdenga. These players were passed by other teams more than once.

Obviously the second round is not as precise as many of you make it out to be.

OakMoses
06-25-2010, 06:44 PM
After watching some more Stephenson highlights, there's another player he reminds me of...

He has a lot of Marquis Daniels in his offensive game. He's got the same sneaky but not incredibly quick change of direction and uncanny finishing ability. He seems to be a bit more explosive and have a bit better jumpshot, but I'm also not watching him versus NBA competition.

DGPR
06-25-2010, 06:51 PM
I think we are excited because we didn't go with the ho-hum boring pick like we have the past couple of years. I'm not saying I hated the Hibbert pick, and Rush isn't terrible, but I'm not going to deny I hated/still hate the Hansbrough pick. Whatever that's in the past, but now we have a couple of players that have as Jay Bilas would say "tremendous upside" and we are getting excited, rightfully so even. We need a homerun or two in order to get us to the next level. If things don't pan out, we aren't just standing pat the rest of this summer and next, we will make trades to get better and younger players in here. Who knows this time next summer Stephenson might not even be on the team, but I'd like to think we at least took the chance to see what he can be.

OakMoses
06-25-2010, 06:52 PM
If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college. That's not exactly a sure thing.


Dahntay Jones?

DGPR
06-25-2010, 06:56 PM
Sure. But base it on something real.

We drafted two guys with a lot of upside. If/ when they hit that upside, we'll have plenty to be excited about. I wouldn't expect these guys to get a lot of minutes next season under any coach. Rush and Hibbert were more polished (which everyone hated because it meant they had less upside) and they had a hard time getting the minutes we wanted them to get.

If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college. That's not exactly a sure thing.

Remember: "raw" may be exciting but also takes a lot more time than "polished".


We still have Mike Dunleavy this year and he's making like $10 mil this upcoming season so he has to be pretty good right?

idioteque
06-25-2010, 07:34 PM
Dahntay Jones?

Probably not a legit starter on a really good playoff team.

ucmax
06-25-2010, 07:47 PM
Cincinnati fan here that may be able to shed some light on Stephenson.

Fantastic ball handler. He is very creative with the ball in his hands and has probably the best crossover in the draft other than John Wall. He can really get to the rim whenever he wants but he ran into some issues with that at Cincinnati. He was really the only scorer on the team and UC didn't have any shooters AT ALL. So teams could collapse on him easily and it definitely kept his numbers down.

He has good form on his jumper but right now he is definitely a below average shooter. He just needs repetitions because he has a good follow throw and a good shooting pocket. He does take a lot of tough shots and that hurts his percentage.

Good passer with good vision as well. Because of his handle and passing abilities he could play some point, if he could guard other point guards.

He's just an average leaper but he's got good quickness and great change of direction for his size. He's probably the strongest shooting guard prospect in the draft.

All UC fans heard about when he committed was about his off the court issues. He was great in the classroom and a great teammate. He would sometimes get frustrated because his teammates didn't have his desire to win but he didn't give coach Mick Cronin any problems.

I honestly think he is a better prospect/player than Paul George. Lance really started to blow up in the Big East tournament and all three games there he was the best player on the floor. If DaSean Butler doesn't hit a miracle three pointer to beat UC, then Lance is probably a top 20 pick. He definitely has the talent of a lottery pick but in college his lack of a supporting cast really hurt him.

OakMoses
06-25-2010, 08:28 PM
Probably not a legit starter on a really good playoff team.

Are we going to be one of those in the next two years?

Wasn't Denver one of those 2 years ago?

jeffg-body
06-25-2010, 08:46 PM
I see him as a 1st round talent with a D-League attitude. Hopefully Danny and the other vets on the team can help him mature and he will show the talent he has on the floor and have a professional attitude as well. I really liked the pick myself.

imawhat
06-25-2010, 09:01 PM
Dahntay Jones?

I have to laugh about you asking that to J. The only Pacer he hates more than Dahntay is T.J. Ford.

woowoo
06-25-2010, 09:07 PM
I personally loved this draft, but I also understand your concerns (along with Seth) On the plus side, we can STILL get Torrance :D

I would love to see the Pacers give Torreance, Scheyer, or Reynolds a shot...

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 09:08 PM
If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college.


I've been under the impression from the get go George was the future SG. That's one of the reasons I didn't like the Stephenson pick last night.

ChristianDudley
06-25-2010, 09:10 PM
Probably not a legit starter on a really good playoff team.

I think he is. I believe he is the main reason the Nuggets did so well in the playoffs the season before this past one. He completely stopped CP3 and that completely stopped the New Orleans train. He stopped Jason Terry and that caused the Mavs from getting much-needed scoring from other than Dirk. I'd be surprised if you all don't remember the struggles that Dahntay gave Kobe in that series--you can find many pics on Google Images of Dahntay blocking Kobe and dunking on Kobe. I strongly believe that once we get a new coach, one that actually knows what he's doing, Dahntay will then blossom again and be the type of player on the defensive end he was known to be. If there is a positive with O'Brien being coach under Dahntay, it has been that Dahntay has found how to be a better scorer.

Eleazar
06-25-2010, 09:11 PM
Sure. But base it on something real.

We drafted two guys with a lot of upside. If/ when they hit that upside, we'll have plenty to be excited about. I wouldn't expect these guys to get a lot of minutes next season under any coach. Rush and Hibbert were more polished (which everyone hated because it meant they had less upside) and they had a hard time getting the minutes we wanted them to get.

If Rush is traded away, we need to get a starting SG for the next couple of seasons while Stephenson figures out how to contribute even more at the NBA level than he did in college. That's not exactly a sure thing.

Remember: "raw" may be exciting but also takes a lot more time than "polished".

Why do we need to get a starting SG right now? Does this team have a chance to win a championship next season? Would you rather only win 35 games, and have a low lottery pick over a high lottery pick?

I don't get this mentality of we need these players now so we can keep on being mediocre while our young talent is developing. Why not let ourselves be slightly worse in order to get higher draft picks while our talent is developing? There is no point in winning 30-40 games if you aren't a team moving up. There is no point in be stagnant, all it does is make it easier to stay stagnant.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 09:12 PM
After watching some more Stephenson highlights, there's another player he reminds me of...

He has a lot of Marquis Daniels in his offensive game. He's got the same sneaky but not incredibly quick change of direction and uncanny finishing ability. He seems to be a bit more explosive and have a bit better jumpshot, but I'm also not watching him versus NBA competition.



I hope he can hit a 3 better than Quis could. I use to cringe everytime Quis would shoot a 3.

tadscout
06-25-2010, 09:12 PM
I've been under the impression from the get go George was the future SG. That's one of the reasons I didn't like the Stephenson pick last night.

My impression is George is looked as the future (maybe even currant) Start SG... and Stephenson is a potential Marcus Thorton like explosive scoring punch off the bench we've been missing...

ChristianDudley
06-25-2010, 09:19 PM
I would love to see the Pacers give Torreance, Scheyer, or Reynolds a shot...

Please, not Scheyer!!!

Justin Tyme
06-25-2010, 09:19 PM
I think he is. I believe he is the main reason the Nuggets did so well in the playoffs the season before this past one. He completely stopped CP3 and that completely stopped the New Orleans train. He stopped Jason Terry and that caused the Mavs from getting much-needed scoring from other than Dirk. I'd be surprised if you all don't remember the struggles that Dahntay gave Kobe in that series--you can find many pics on Google Images of Dahntay blocking Kobe and dunking on Kobe. I strongly believe that once we get a new coach, one that actually knows what he's doing, Dahntay will then blossom again and be the type of player on the defensive end he was known to be. If there is a positive with O'Brien being coach under Dahntay, it has been that Dahntay has found how to be a better scorer.


I understand for point, but I have always felt Denver really missed Linas Kleiza more than Dahntay. They miss Kleiza's size and toughness. They have not replaced him with a big which they sorely need.

imawhat
06-25-2010, 09:23 PM
I understand for point, but I have always felt Denver really missed Linas Kleiza more than Dahntay. They miss Kleiza's size and toughness. They have not replaced him with a big which they sorely need.

It's hard to use last year as a comparison because things fell apart when Karl went out. But if we're strictly talking about who had the bigger impact in the '09 playoffs, it was definitely Dahntay. He imposed his will on Chris Paul and nearly rendered him useless.

BlueNGold
06-25-2010, 09:58 PM
After watching some more Stephenson highlights, there's another player he reminds me of...

He has a lot of Marquis Daniels in his offensive game. He's got the same sneaky but not incredibly quick change of direction and uncanny finishing ability. He seems to be a bit more explosive and have a bit better jumpshot, but I'm also not watching him versus NBA competition.


Yes, I have made that reference. He has the handles, interior scoring, maneuverability of Quis. He will be effective in the NBA IMO....but I think Quis is his ceiling.

Good potential talent for a second round pick. I just hope he fits in with the team and doesn't pull a Shawne Williams.

Trophy
06-25-2010, 10:44 PM
As far as the off the court issue, that was just an immature mistake. He's grown up from then and will continue to mature in the NBA.

AJ got into some trouble when he was younger, but he learned from it and matured.

The fact that the Pacers have a family oriented atmosphere will mature Lance even more.

MaHa3000
06-26-2010, 01:42 AM
If Lance Stephenson could play point things could get very interesting. Is the notion too far fetched.
I personally don't have a high b-ball IQ, but after watching this guy's videos I think he could bring the ball up with ease and make some plays at the begining of the shot clock.
I don't know if he could run half court sets. I mean would he be capable of exucuting a pick and roll consistantly.
Then on defence,at 6'5" will he be able to keep in front of a Rondo or D. Rose. ( we don't have anyone on our roster who could do that anyway)

Can someone help an Idiot (me) out here?

Kemo
06-26-2010, 02:11 AM
Other then the little that I read on DX and on NBADraft.net, please convince me that Lance Stephenson was a good pick.


I think that once Lance starts getting some playtime , even in small rookie doses , that he will convince you himself that he was a nice pick .. Especially at the 40th selection.

I believe that Stephenson is one of those very rare basketball freaks , whom IF (and a big if at that) he puts it ALL together , he has all the "tools" to maybe become an "elite" player..
But really , it is all on him. He needs to not only work on alot of his fundamentals and polish them , but if he hasn't "mentally grew up" yet , then he needs to IMMEDIATLY .. before he even steps out on the court for the first NBA game of his career.

I think that beneath the surface , he is a good kid ..

I also like his quote that was mentioned by someone in another thread about him saying he is leaving all his old aquaintances and "bad influences" from back home behind him for good ..

That right there is a humongous step in the right direction , and if he means it .... well then I don't believe we will ever see a problem out of him off or on court ..

He HAS to have some very good skills and "potential" , for LeBron to not only have attended alot of his H.S. games, (and some of his Cin. games as well from what I've read) but to have immediately taken a liking to the Lance and to have befriended him..

To me... that says something.... beyond anything else...


.
.

I can't wait to see George and Stephenson in a Pacers Uni , playing extremely well here real soon..





















.

spazzxb
06-26-2010, 03:17 AM
so you think he can stay healthy? A non injury pron Marquis without suicide tatoos and maybe a little more energy would actually be pretty good.

Yes, I have made that reference. He has the handles, interior scoring, maneuverability of Quis. He will be effective in the NBA IMO....but I think Quis is his ceiling.

Good potential talent for a second round pick. I just hope he fits in with the team and doesn't pull a Shawne Williams.

Wage
06-26-2010, 03:20 AM
Yes, I have made that reference. He has the handles, interior scoring, maneuverability of Quis. He will be effective in the NBA IMO....but I think Quis is his ceiling.

If he is Quisy without the Mr. Glass syndrome, I will consider that a monumental victory of a second round pick.

BornReady
06-26-2010, 03:31 AM
I think he'll be quisy at the worst

spazzxb
06-26-2010, 03:41 AM
so you think he can stay healthy? A non injury pron Marquis without suicide tatoos and maybe a little more energy would actually be pretty good.

Yes, I have made that reference. He has the handles, interior scoring, maneuverability of Quis. He will be effective in the NBA IMO....but I think Quis is his ceiling.

Good potential talent for a second round pick. I just hope he fits in with the team and doesn't pull a Shawne Williams.

Anthem
06-26-2010, 07:50 AM
I like the Bonzi Wells comparison. It would be cool to have a mature Bonzi.

Hicks
06-26-2010, 11:35 AM
I don't see Bonzi in his game at all. I agree more with the Marquis comparison.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Please, not Scheyer!!!
I agree. Rautins won me over and his passes to me are pretty impressive at 2nd glance, so I could see him scratching out a backup role.

Scheyer is the biggest d-bag Duke crybaby on the planet and I would have to stop rooting for the team until he was no longer part of it (aand Dr Awesome thought I was a Duke fan because I didn't crawl up the rear on the Hans pick). He and Rautins on the surface appear to be similar players with similar roles for similar talented teams, but I see no NBA skills at all in Scheyer's game. He will be outstanding in the flop-friendly cry-fest that is Euro ball though.*




Bring in Tweety to summer ball. Seriously. Look, I know sometimes my suggestions may seem bland, but the fact is that I like smart players with mature attitudes toward the game on the floor (practice is nice, but I need application) and just enough talent to make those decisions work. He's not full of thrilling upside, ditto Patterson, but he does the job you need him to do.

If TBird and I differ in our approach I think it's in that manner. I overlook some of the fundamentals that guys do or don't have which can make the game easier for them. To me history is full of guys that A) weren't mentally quick enough to make those skills pay off or B) weren't smart enough to learn the game once they hit the NBA. So I prize game awareness much more than coached up skills, even though these are valuable tools.


Ability to develop and learn is a genetic gift that can also be trained up just as much as jumping or how to set up in the triple threat. This is why I'm rarely thrilled with "raw" guys. These aren't 14 year olds.

I'll give you that between 19-25 there is still room to grow, but personally I've known very few people that drastically improved or adjusted their thinking process past 21-22, at least without a major life altering experience. Mellowing, sure, but the dull wood rarely shows a sudden knack for being the sharpest stick just by getting older.

You develop a knowledge base, amass experiences. But your ability to recognize spontaneous and new situations, your ability to LEARN from those new situations? I don't think that part improves.

This is why small children can learn foreign languages quicker than adults. And if there is a truth about the NBA for me its that winning is all about the mental and physical ability to deal with the crazy and unexpected plays, not the ability to learn the normal pattern.


I like Derrick Favors, but he's raw and I don't think he's ever going to show you Larry Bird's brain for the game. That was a skill Larry had and clearly grew up with. Larry at 19 knew the game more than Favors at 19.

This applies to Lance and George too. We are asking a lot to expect a sudden jump or change in their mental game. What is more likely for Lance is that he'll always be plagued with an instinct for bad choices on the court, even as he gets lesson after lesson that they are bad.

Just like Gani Lawal won't suddenly spurt up to 7'1". It's just genetics.




I'd probably be a lot more open to all of this if we hadn't just faced this identical draft with Shawne and White. Every single case could be made for both. The only major difference is that George appears to only be raw and not mixed up with trouble. I did like Shawne's talent quite a bit, though he was also a redundant SF drafted to remove the PF and run a double wing.





*this rant has to put me back in the running for Most Offensive Poster 2011 after a hiatus this year.

BlueNGold
06-26-2010, 12:27 PM
so you think he can stay healthy? A non injury pron Marquis without suicide tatoos and maybe a little more energy would actually be pretty good.

Those types of players (6'5 or 6'6" guys like Maggette, Quis, etc) that drive the lane seem to find themselves injured because they are not afraid to contend with the trees. I expect Stephenson to play a similar game...so I doubt he stays healthy.

Again, I think he's a talented player and ignoring any off court issues is a great second round pick. I don't think he's a guy who will be a great starter in the NBA though. He simply doesn't have the range on his shot and I doubt that changes.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2010, 12:39 PM
wells then came on and suggested that spurs "really like rush" and said they would have done a george hill deal, but bird wanted to wait on summer league before giving up on rush. my guess is if our picks are as advertised, rush is gone for a PG.
Nothing like pinning major roster opinions on summer league alone....said Bayless' mom. ;)


I get the theory from Bird, but I'm not sure its much less risky to trade post-summer league than at this point. I wouldn't consider Lance doing awesome or just okay as a good indicator of the future either way. Bad, then yes that's not a good sign, but it's pretty tough to prove out a positive solution during summer ball.

To me Bird needs to make that choice off of what he saw on tape, live and heard from whatever background checks they did. He better not be expecting a summer bust, and really that's irrelevant to the Rush/Hill deal IMO. You need a PG more than an SG. Your coach plays double PG anyway.

I love Rush, I like him more than Hill, but I would understand this trade of need and similarish talent levels.

What I don't like is "if he busts 3 scrubs for 20 points then I do some other deal, but if not then I don't". Talk about meaningless measuring sticks.

imawhat
06-26-2010, 12:49 PM
I don't think the wait and see approach is about talent as much as it's about attitude and chemistry. I think Larry wants to see firsthand how he interacts.

flox
06-26-2010, 03:06 PM
Wasn't Denver one of those 2 years ago?

I mean if you count a starter who plays 10 minutes a real starter..

And if you mean that Ginobili also isn't a starter....

then sure. I can agree to you strict definition of a starter.

tadscout
06-26-2010, 05:51 PM
Nothing like pinning major roster opinions on summer league alone....said Bayless' mom. ;)


I get the theory from Bird, but I'm not sure its much less risky to trade post-summer league than at this point. I wouldn't consider Lance doing awesome or just okay as a good indicator of the future either way. Bad, then yes that's not a good sign, but it's pretty tough to prove out a positive solution during summer ball.

To me Bird needs to make that choice off of what he saw on tape, live and heard from whatever background checks they did. He better not be expecting a summer bust, and really that's irrelevant to the Rush/Hill deal IMO. You need a PG more than an SG. Your coach plays double PG anyway.

I love Rush, I like him more than Hill, but I would understand this trade of need and similarish talent levels.

What I don't like is "if he busts 3 scrubs for 20 points then I do some other deal, but if not then I don't". Talk about meaningless measuring sticks.

I took the comment more as he wanted to see what players he picked in the draft, so in turn what players would become easier to trade as assets (Rush)... The summer league was just thrown out as a time frame/ phase (you know the next part off the off season after the draft...)... since we all know Wells isn't the best at communicating, ironic huh?

DgR
06-26-2010, 10:00 PM
I think it's a bit harsh saying George=Shawne & Lance=White. Yes, the scenarios are similar and there are similarities between the players, but they're not the same guys and they're not the same players. They could end up being the anti-Shawne & anti-White. It's too early to tell. It's also too early to start bashing Bird since the summer has just started. I'm sure he has no intention of going into next season with Ford and Price as our only PG options.

Even if in the end the picks don't turn out as we hope, I still think Bird was right in his approach. He was looking for high impact players ,not good, complementary cogs for the system.

On another note I think a good team needs balance. We don't want all our players to be thugs like a few years ago, but we also don't want a team full of milk drinkers. A little attitude is important. The best players in the league have a little attitude. To be successful you need different players with different skills and also different personalities...

Noodle
06-26-2010, 10:04 PM
A little attitude is important

Amen brother. Milk drinkers?:laugh:

BlueNGold
06-26-2010, 11:50 PM
I think it's a bit harsh saying George=Shawne & Lance=White. Yes, the scenarios are similar and there are similarities between the players, but they're not the same guys and they're not the same players. They could end up being the anti-Shawne & anti-White. It's too early to tell. It's also too early to start bashing Bird since the summer has just started. I'm sure he has no intention of going into next season with Ford and Price as our only PG options.

Even if in the end the picks don't turn out as we hope, I still think Bird was right in his approach. He was looking for high impact players ,not good, complementary cogs for the system.

On another note I think a good team needs balance. We don't want all our players to be thugs like a few years ago, but we also don't want a team full of milk drinkers. A little attitude is important. The best players in the league have a little attitude. To be successful you need different players with different skills and also different personalities...

I was with you until the last paragraph. Are we talking confidence and maybe a little arrogance. Yes, I can roll with that. I think those are prereqs to being a great basketball player...most of the time at least.

...or are we talking an A-type hot head attitude in terms of Rasheed Wallace / Stephon Jackson? That's the knock with L.S...along with poor decision-making.

IMO, that's not the type of personality that makes a player good. Intensity is not the same as anger. This is not the boys & girls club. Just the fact a particular dude is outwardly intense, beats his chest or acts angry doesn't matter at all. If anything, there are lots of other personalities that will purposely focus on beating those types of guys...out on the court when it actually matters.

flox
06-27-2010, 03:46 PM
Those types of players (6'5 or 6'6" guys like Maggette, Quis, etc) that drive the lane seem to find themselves injured because they are not afraid to contend with the trees. I expect Stephenson to play a similar game...so I doubt he stays healthy.

Well I mean you have Durant (82), James (76), Wade(77), Melo (69) games each with that same driving style. Then you have the 2nd tier of Mags (70), Bryant (73), Martin (46), Roy (65), Evans (72), Ellis (64), Jackson (81), Iggy (82). (sorted by wing/guards, FTA per game)

I'd say that it's relatively healthy. ,



...or are we talking an A-type hot head attitude in terms of Rasheed Wallace / Stephon Jackson? That's the knock with L.S...along with poor decision-making.

These two players happen to be key pieces to title runs and victories by championship teams.

BlueNGold
06-27-2010, 05:50 PM
Well I mean you have Durant (82), James (76), Wade(77), Melo (69) games each with that same driving style. Then you have the 2nd tier of Mags (70), Bryant (73), Martin (46), Roy (65), Evans (72), Ellis (64), Jackson (81), Iggy (82). (sorted by wing/guards, FTA per game)

I'd say that it's relatively healthy. ,


These two players happen to be key pieces to title runs and victories by championship teams.

Iggy is your best case here. Durant is a lot bigger player who can get his shot off over anyone. James is a much bigger player who can run over a PF. Same with Mello. Wade and Ellis are simply too quick so they don't get as much contact. Other players you list like Bryant and Jackson are bigger and have that outside game going which gets the defense off guard.

At 6'5", Lance had better learn how to shoot or he had better be as athletic as Iggy or clever as Quis. He does have good strength which should work in his favor, but IMO Maggette and Quis are better comparables than the all-star players you are listing. Iggy is an athletic freak and until I see more from Stephenson, I doubt he is that athletic.

As for Sheed and Jax, they are very good players. Not because they are hot heads though.

flox
06-27-2010, 06:49 PM
At 6'5", Lance had better learn how to shoot or he had better be as athletic as Iggy or clever as Quis. He does have good strength which should work in his favor, but IMO Maggette and Quis


I thought your criteria was that players who drive to the lane that often are bound to be injured/unhealthy.

If you want to name a range, to lets say, 6-5 to 6-6, penetrators, average athleticism or lower, SG or SF with an average outside game or lower (?) (Bryant still fits that criteria at 6-6, SG, slightly above average athleticism, but you claim that he's bigger than Stephenson and has an outside game .329 from three), then the list looks like:

Mags: 70 games

I don't understand why we have to have such a narrow criteria, but whatever.

BornReady
06-27-2010, 07:38 PM
so cable are you convinced yet?

ucmax
06-27-2010, 08:23 PM
From a Cincinnati fan....

I don't really understand the fear that Stephenson will pan out like James White. I watched James White play for 3 years at UC and Stephenson for his lone year in college. They are two incredibly different players with extremely different attitudes. James White doesn't love basketball, he loves the dunking and the threes. He always loved the highlight plays but he didn't love the game enough to really.

Stephenson is so different from that. He absolutely loves basketball. He would be in the gym till 3 in the morning at UC getting better. It's his life and the kids like that are always the ones that improve the most.

Also on Stephenson, I don't really see the Marquis Daniels comparison. Stephenson is your typical New York city point guard with the ball in his hands except that he is 6'5 and strong as hell. He is so explosive off the dribble. From watching AJ Price in college at UConn, I can say without hesitation that Stephenson is a much better creater and playmaker than Price. Lance slid in the draft because he didn't shoot well this year from the perimeter and his teammates didn't give him any help. I see him being an All-Star in a few years. He just needs to improve his jumpshot. He already has good form on his jumper so he just needs repetition to improve that facet of his game.

BlueNGold
06-27-2010, 09:40 PM
I thought your criteria was that players who drive to the lane that often are bound to be injured/unhealthy.

If you want to name a range, to lets say, 6-5 to 6-6, penetrators, average athleticism or lower, SG or SF with an average outside game or lower (?) (Bryant still fits that criteria at 6-6, SG, slightly above average athleticism, but you claim that he's bigger than Stephenson and has an outside game .329 from three), then the list looks like:

Mags: 70 games

I don't understand why we have to have such a narrow criteria, but whatever.

I'm not saying that players who drive the lane are bound to get injured. I am implying that 6'5" SG's who drive the lane seem to be injury prone. I could be wrong about that, but another example is Larry Hughes. After his second season, he had seasons of 50, 73, 67, 61, 61, 36, 70, 68, 55 and 45 games played. Not exactly an iron man.

So, all I am doing is trying to compare him to similar types of players. Rather than comparing him to Durant, Kobe, MJ, Mello and Lebron...I think his comparables are Mags, Hughes and Quis. BTW, those are pretty good NBA players so it's not like I have a low opinion of the guy's talent level.

Edit: BTW, Kobe is an athletic freak. Lance is not. Also, .329 is the worst Kobe has shot from the perimeter in 6 years. Compare that percentage from the NBA 3 to Stephenson's .219 from the college 3 and Kobe looks like Reggie.

danman
06-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Count me on the Lance Kool Aid faction.

Not sayin' he's going to start next year or be a 2013 all star. That's the laudanum faction, down the hall.

Gym rat, great handle, NBA body, talent. Got a fat head but then shows signs of learning from it before age 20. (Shawne Williams and David Harrison don't understand the last sentence).

Look -- part of the reason you bring in the Hibberts and Hansbroughs of the world is to establish an environment for the Lances of the world. Excellent gamble, and at #40, you haven't slid any big chips out there.

I'm fired up for Lance.

PS. A "crowded" position is one where you've got 2 big time players. The Pacers dream about suffering such problems.

Sparhawk
06-29-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm really excited about Lance as well. I kinda hoped the Pacers would be able to get him, though I thought they'd trade down to get a PG as well. Still, I'm very happy that he fell to us and I ready to see what this kid can do.

Plus, Koolaid is delicious!

sheppie33
06-29-2010, 02:08 PM
From a Cincinnati fan....

I don't really understand the fear that Stephenson will pan out like James White. I watched James White play for 3 years at UC and Stephenson for his lone year in college. They are two incredibly different players with extremely different attitudes. James White doesn't love basketball, he loves the dunking and the threes. He always loved the highlight plays but he didn't love the game enough to really.

Stephenson is so different from that. He absolutely loves basketball. He would be in the gym till 3 in the morning at UC getting better. It's his life and the kids like that are always the ones that improve the most.

Also on Stephenson, I don't really see the Marquis Daniels comparison. Stephenson is your typical New York city point guard with the ball in his hands except that he is 6'5 and strong as hell. He is so explosive off the dribble. From watching AJ Price in college at UConn, I can say without hesitation that Stephenson is a much better creater and playmaker than Price. Lance slid in the draft because he didn't shoot well this year from the perimeter and his teammates didn't give him any help. I see him being an All-Star in a few years. He just needs to improve his jumpshot. He already has good form on his jumper so he just needs repetition to improve that facet of his game.

As a fellow UC fan, i couldnt have said it better.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2010, 02:31 PM
What position did Bird have in mind for Stephenson to play when he drafted him... SG or PG? I'm being to warm up to the idea of his pick, especially if Bird drafted him to play PG.

flox
06-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I'm not saying that players who drive the lane are bound to get injured. I am implying that 6'5" SG's who drive the lane seem to be injury prone. I could be wrong about that, but another example is Larry Hughes. After his second season, he had seasons of 50, 73, 67, 61, 61, 36, 70, 68, 55 and 45 games played. Not exactly an iron man.

So, all I am doing is trying to compare him to similar types of players. Rather than comparing him to Durant, Kobe, MJ, Mello and Lebron...I think his comparables are Mags, Hughes and Quis. BTW, those are pretty good NBA players so it's not like I have a low opinion of the guy's talent level.

Edit: BTW, Kobe is an athletic freak. Lance is not. Also, .329 is the worst Kobe has shot from the perimeter in 6 years. Compare that percentage from the NBA 3 to Stephenson's .219 from the college 3 and Kobe looks like Reggie.

Yeah, Kobe is in shape, and doesn' really carry extra weight, but to say that he is an athletic freak at this point in his career, i'd say thats a stretch.

As for Hughes, I like that comparison. If we could have the GSW/Washington Wizards Hughes (around 15-16ppg, 3-5fta per game, .300 avg 3pt low 50 games high 75 over 5 seasons) then we make out like bandits.


I'm actually curious now, what is the criteria for an healthy NBA player? Surely it isn't to play all 82 games in a season? I'd say 76 is a good number?

timid
06-29-2010, 04:54 PM
From a Cincinnati fan....

I don't really understand the fear that Stephenson will pan out like James White. I watched James White play for 3 years at UC and Stephenson for his lone year in college. They are two incredibly different players with extremely different attitudes. James White doesn't love basketball, he loves the dunking and the threes. He always loved the highlight plays but he didn't love the game enough to really.

Stephenson is so different from that. He absolutely loves basketball. He would be in the gym till 3 in the morning at UC getting better. It's his life and the kids like that are always the ones that improve the most.

Also on Stephenson, I don't really see the Marquis Daniels comparison. Stephenson is your typical New York city point guard with the ball in his hands except that he is 6'5 and strong as hell. He is so explosive off the dribble. From watching AJ Price in college at UConn, I can say without hesitation that Stephenson is a much better creater and playmaker than Price. Lance slid in the draft because he didn't shoot well this year from the perimeter and his teammates didn't give him any help. I see him being an All-Star in a few years. He just needs to improve his jumpshot. He already has good form on his jumper so he just needs repetition to improve that facet of his game.

Thats what I was thinking.....Some of you dudes must not really follow high school and college basketball........Lance plays nothing like James White...smh.....Dude can do more than dunk....

CableKC
06-29-2010, 06:37 PM
so cable are you convinced yet?
I'm more convinced then on Draft Night. Because I'm a pessimist, I will say that I have "stepped back" from the proverbial "ledge" but still hesitant ( a bit ) given our track record for drafting Players.

For now, as many have said...he's just a 2nd round pick...but given Bird's high-praise of him and the apparent Homework that they did on his background....I'm hesitantly optimistic that Lance can at least make the roster and be a key rotational SG for the immediate future.

Thanks all for your responses.

Sookie
06-29-2010, 07:19 PM
What position did Bird have in mind for Stephenson to play when he drafted him... SG or PG? I'm being to warm up to the idea of his pick, especially if Bird drafted him to play PG.

SG. (Wells included him in our way too big list of Wings) Not that it's ever bad to have a SG capable of making plays.

I don't think too many people think of him as a point guard. Jimmy might be thinking of him as a PF though.

Bird seems to like him, and he'll be cheap, so I suspect he'll make the team. However, unless Bird forces Jimmy to play him, he'll be on the bench with DJones. Unless he gets a three point shot. (ie, because he can't shoot the three)

BornReady
06-29-2010, 07:44 PM
maybe playing lance will have obie go away from the whole 2 pg lineup? :D