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RimBender
07-31-2004, 06:41 PM
I know this is a Pacers forum, but I wanna say a litte something something.

Up in Toronto Vince Carter has been getting alot of grief latley becaue of rumors of him wanting out, I guess. People are saying he is washed up, sorry, no good, whatever they are saying. But I think Vince Carter is definitely one of the greatest players in the game at, least top 10. I know he is injury prone but i think he is good to go for now, instead of shooting more, this season he will drive the lane like he used to do, without settling for his jumpshot.

I wanna hear some of your opinions on him.

Will Galen
07-31-2004, 06:53 PM
What you said, He's a good player, maybe top ten. But he's injury prone, and expensive, and we would have to give up vital parts to get him.

Let him stay where he's at, or go somewhere else, just not to the Pacer's.

bulletproof
07-31-2004, 07:10 PM
I don't like the idea of trading for or signing overpaid failed "franchise" players. There's a bad odor on them. Think Karl Malone or Mookie Blaylock. Mookie was never a franchise player and has nothing to do with this whatsoever, I just like the sound of his name. Mookie Blaylock.

Anthem
07-31-2004, 07:17 PM
He's not as good as Ron Artest.

Is Artest a top-10 player? Not yet, in my book anyway.

SkipperZ
07-31-2004, 08:09 PM
in terms of talent and athleticism, you can make a case for vince as a top 10 player. In terms of players I would want playing for my team (irregardless of contract status), I can easily name 10 players I would clearly rather have. ACtually I think i can name more like 25 that I would clearly rather have and another 25 that I could make a case for.

for ex.

Jermaine, Artest, kidd, ben, shaq, wade, b-diddy, redd, steph, pierce, lebron, AI, francis, kg, cassell, kobe, odom, duncan, peja, dirk, pau, carmelo, kmart, kirilenko, randolph, ray allen, brand, marion, amare, tmac and yao i can comfortably say that i would rather have on my team than vince. Thats 31 players.

i would have to think long and hard about livingston, nash, miles, boozer, bibby, cwebb, ginobilli, dwight howard, okafor, curry, rip, richard jefferson, and bender before i took carter. Thats 14 more players.

That is my opinion, and im sure some would disagree, but heart, desire work ethic and durability go a long way in my book, and that is why i dont see vince as a top 10 (or anywhere close) player....

Slick Pinkham
07-31-2004, 09:01 PM
Vince Carter is highly overrated due to his dunking ability.

He is most definitely NOT a top 10 player, at this stage of his career, and with his recent injury issues.

He's solidly in the 20-30 range, IMO. When healthy, he's a top 10 one-on-one offensive player. Working withing a team framework on offense and doing little stuff like hustle plays, making the extra pass, playing unselfishly, and being a leader are areas where he LACKS a little, along with defensive intensity

He's not a bad player-- I'd say Ron Artest is only a little more valuable, say in the 15-20 range-- but not worthy of the crazy amount of all-star votes that he typically gets.

RimBender
07-31-2004, 09:09 PM
lol, I wasn't waiting to trade for him, I was jsut wondering what ya'll thought about him. I wanted to see if "everyone" hated Vince.

NewType
07-31-2004, 11:25 PM
I think he has all the talent in the world but not the desire. He's too much of a prima donna. He doesn't have the drive and the hunger to be the best. All his dunking accolades make people think he is better than he really is. At this point, he is just another decent player with a big household name, nothing more, nothing less.

RimBender
08-01-2004, 12:52 AM
Well just another player won't completing jump over a 7 foot guy, I know he gets overrated because he can dunk, but that is definitly the best dunk i have ever seen. (In a game, cuz J Rich's at Dunk Comp 2004 was drop jaw amazing, He should have won with just that dunk.)

NewType
08-01-2004, 01:45 AM
Well just another player won't completing jump over a 7 foot guy, I know he gets overrated because he can dunk, but that is definitly the best dunk i have ever seen. (In a game, cuz J Rich's at Dunk Comp 2004 was drop jaw amazing, He should have won with just that dunk.)

I guess I'm a little bit harsh. He can definitely dunk. There is no question about that. But when the game/season is on the line, he just can't make that one play for his team.

sweabs
08-01-2004, 01:45 AM
Don't let Vince's dunking ability sell you on his entire game.

Vince is enough for any fan to just about explode. He is very good at driving in the lane and getting to the basket...yet he continues to take ill-advised jump shots. It is enough to drive even non-Raptor fans crazy (haha).

Vince also doesn't have that great of attitude. He really likes things to accomodate his every need because of his self-inflated ego and "superstar" status. Before last years draft, Vince was pushing to trade the pick for immidiate help. When that didn't happen, he was lobbying to trade Bosh :rolleyes:. This year he was pouting because Julius Erving wasn't hired. He has also, in the past, been open to the media and criticizing teammates - so I'm not sure if he is such a great teammate in general.

Obviously, I'm a little hard on Vince (like most people from Toronto) but we see him every game-night on TV and get lots of coverage of him personally since he is almost like the "picture-boy" for basketball in Canada.

Vince just had his Annual Charity All-Star Game (which is always brutal may I add) and said some interesting things like "My fans will always support me no matter where I go". :confused: - I'll leave that up to you to interpret. But a lot of Toronto papers have rumours of Vince going to Seattle for Ray Allen straight up?

Fine by me - as long as I don't see him in a Pacers uniform.

Lord Helmet
08-01-2004, 01:45 AM
I think Vince is a great player but he is injury prone.I also think he is the 2nd best dunker behind Jordan.

Roy Munson
08-02-2004, 04:20 PM
I think Vince is a great player but he is injury prone.I also think he is the 2nd best dunker behind Jordan.

I would say that he is the third best dunker behind Jordan and Freddy Jones! javascript:;

DisplacedKnick
08-02-2004, 04:39 PM
Vince has to show that he can go back to attacking the basket. About three years ago, if he wasn't a top ten player he was close. But last season he was mostly a jump shooter.

Still pretty good but much closer to Michael Finley than Kobe.

DisplacedKnick
08-02-2004, 04:43 PM
I think Vince is a great player but he is injury prone.I also think he is the 2nd best dunker behind Jordan.

I would say that he is the third best dunker behind Jordan and Freddy Jones! javascript:;


Since we're using history, not including 'Nique on that list would be kind of tough - I'd put him ahead of Vince, though AFAIK he never jumped clear over a 7' Frenchman.

ChicagoJ
08-02-2004, 05:15 PM
For many of us, Vince Carter represents everything that is wrong with the current breed of NBA player.

He wants all the accolates, but he's not tough.

He'll never be the best player on a contender. He might make a nice "second option" but his apparent ego will never allow it.

Anthem
08-02-2004, 08:56 PM
Vinsanity for Ray Allen? That's a great trade for the Raptors.

PacerBlade
08-03-2004, 10:15 AM
Carter is definitely TOP10 player and I would choose him over Artest.

SycamoreKen
08-03-2004, 10:56 AM
Vince has to show that he can go back to attacking the basket. About three years ago, if he wasn't a top ten player he was close. But last season he was mostly a jump shooter.

Still pretty good but much closer to Michael Finley than Kobe.


Looking at his stats, Vince had his 3rd highest FT attempts/per game season 5.69 and his second lowest 3PT attempt/per game season 3.30 in which he played 60 or more games.

I haven't seen Carter play much out here, but i ould say that only playing in 70+ games in 3 out 5 non-strike seasons should raise an eyebrow. He did play in all of his teams games during his first 2 seasons.

Lord Helmet
08-03-2004, 11:41 AM
Carter is definitely TOP10 player and I would choose him over Artest. Are you referring to Carter of 3 years ago?

sweabs
08-03-2004, 03:49 PM
Carter is definitely TOP10 player and I would choose him over Artest.

:scream: NOOOOO.

Fool
08-03-2004, 04:24 PM
Anyone who would consider Bender over Carter is drowning in homerism (though I do agree with most, not all, of those you listed).

Carter's shot is underated in my opinion but he breaks too often and is quite the selfish player (when you can't play with your own cousin, you have problems). He was Kevin Garnett-esq in his early playoff days (never quite getting as far as people thought he should) but the Raptors aren't as good of an organization as the Timberwolves and the last futile years have really cost Carter's reputation.

He's definately not top ten.

Kid Minneapolis
08-03-2004, 05:44 PM
There was a time years ago when Vince might have been the best player in the league for a brief moment... when all the Vinsanity and "He's half-man, half-amazing" and scoring and dunk titles and SI/ESPN sport covers were going on. The Raptors were respectable.

Now I'm like "Oh. Ya. Vince. That guy. Man his star isn't shining as brightly lately."

He's still pretty good, but he doesn't strike fear in my heart. I remember reading somewhere that he's refraining from attacking the rim so much because he wants to preserve his body. It seemed like he was putting his family before his career, which on one hand is noble, and on the other hand detracts from his career hehe... In the long run that might be a wise decision, but it does nothing to cement his place in NBA history. He has the talent to be a legend. As it is now... hell I don't know if he's even HoF material.