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View Full Version : vapacersfan take on Artest



Unclebuck
07-26-2004, 11:42 AM
Unclebuck loves your post. ;)

Gyron
07-26-2004, 11:44 AM
I agree with the above also....

Suaveness
07-26-2004, 11:51 AM
Yay for that post. Yay for Ron staying here.

:thankyou:


:thumbup:

Lord Helmet
07-26-2004, 11:54 AM
Yes I agree.I really don't think there is anyone else we could trade Ron for.Is anyone out there the DPOY who scores 18ppg?Didn't think so.I would love to have Peja but we already got our next pure shooter in Jax.People say Marion.:laugh:What about the Ron for Bonzi?:rolleyes:Bottom line Don't trade Ronnie.

NewType
07-26-2004, 12:03 PM
Yes I agree with what you said. Also, if he is really such a pest and doesn't worth the trouble, who is going to pay fair value for him? I don't think we would rather take a loss in a trade at this point.

Hicks
07-26-2004, 12:21 PM
Jax will be nice for us, but please don't compare his shot to Peja's. Peja's in his own class when it comes to shooting the ball. I mean, 43% from 3 last year. Who the hell does that? (Aside from Brent Berry I guess :laugh: )

SoupIsGood
07-26-2004, 12:21 PM
Jax is our next pure shooter?

:rolleyes:

Alabama-Redneck
07-26-2004, 12:25 PM
Great post!! I feel about the same toward Artest. I would like to see Rick have, at least, 1 more year with Ron and see what the outcome might be.

RC's influence last year was very good. Let's see if this year will show more improvement.

His trade value will NOT go down regardless of what might happen, short of 1st degree murder. After seeing what is being paid for mid-level talent, his value will only increase.

He is a very important part of this team and needs to remain a member. :cool: :cool:

RimBender
07-26-2004, 12:32 PM
I agree too, let's keep him so next year he can cause problems and give us another early exit before the Finals. YAY! GO ARTEST!

Artest is indeed great, but how can you want to keep him after all those problems you, yourself, listed. I mean most of that is just unheard of.

If they do keep Artest, lets hope he can get his act together this year so we can finally get Reggie that Championship.

Unclebuck
07-26-2004, 12:36 PM
I thought this thread was the "refer to myself in the 3rd person thread" Unclebuck was wrong he feels bad

Hicks
07-26-2004, 12:41 PM
I think what some of you need to understand is that Donnie would never trade Ron unless he was a big problem. He's too good and too cheap to trade for any other reason than he's that big of a problem behind the scenes.

With that said, the other thing to realize is that since Ron IS a cheap salary, DPOY, with 18ppg, there is not a 100% fair trade out there. You're not going to find it. But what you will find, is a pretty good player in return. Maybe not quite what Ron could do, but a damn fine player in their own right. And that's what I've chosen to focus on. I've moved passed the fact that Ron simply isn't working out in Indiana, and that is why Walsh is trading him. It's not an on court thing, it's an off court thing. It may be hard to accept, but I'm sure either before or during this season you will find it's reality, when Ron's no longer in a Pacer uniform.

The only reason to EVER trade Artest is if he's such a headache to management, and more than likely the players as well, that you simply must get rid of him. If all there was to the equation was he's cheap, he's the DPOY, and he averaged 18ppg, even the stupidest GM in the league would know not to ever trade that. But it's not the case. You should know Donnie knows that's something you just don't throw away. So that should tell you right there how bad things are, because I assure you Ron will not be here much longer. Just a matter of time.

So, once you accept that, and just look at what type of guys we can get back, and not just how they stack up to Ron, you can feel a little better about it.

If I had it my way, Ron wouldn't be a problem, and it'd just be a matter of hoping he continues his on-court improvement and that's that. But it's not reality. He's enough of a problem Walsh wants him gone, and that tells me sooner or later Ron would have truly bitten this team in the *** when it counted, so I'm OK with Ron leaving.

The fact that we can get rid of the problem, and still get a Peja Stojakovic, or a Paul Pierce back, is fine by me.

You can't tell me this wouldn't be a very good team:

Tinsley/Johnson
Jackson/Miller
Stojakovic/Bender
O'Neal/Croshere
Foster/Harrison or Pollard

I think that would be another great team (last year was a great team) Losing Ron means we lose the ability to put clamps on another team's best player, but it doesn't mean we stop playing tough team defense. Our defense is still gonna be good or better than good, and with Jackson and Stojakovic to compliment from the outside what O'Neal does on the inside, we have a good deal of offensive firepower now.

Losing Ron is not the end of the world, nor the end of a title hunt.

RimBender
07-26-2004, 12:44 PM
I agree too, let's keep him so next year he can cause problems and give us another early exit before the Finals. YAY! GO ARTEST!

Artest is indeed great, but how can you want to keep him after all those problems you, yourself, listed. I mean most of that is just unheard of.

If they do keep Artest, lets hope he can get his act together this year so we can finally get Reggie that Championship.

Its actually quite easy. See, I know no one is perfect, and from what I know, I can handle having him. he has improved. and if you think he is the SOLE reason we didnt get past Detroit, you are incridibly mistake. That would start with Jo getting hurt, Tins getting hurt, and us not having a outside presense. Sure Artest didnt help, but you cant blame the loss on him.



Oh, I know, don't get my wrong, We wouldn't even of been there in the first place without Artest. His positives prolly out number his negatives, but sometimes he can be crazy, and I would rather have someone who won't be a distraction to the team costing us more then just games.

SoupIsGood
07-26-2004, 12:45 PM
RimBender, I love your avatar.

Artest needs to go, even it means for Peja, Although I would rather have Marion. I don't really care if he can create his own shot or not, he will still be better than Artest on offense. Artest just lowers his shoulder and trys to mow down his opponent.

I think this 'create your own shot' thing is overrated. Marion still scores 20 a night, he must be doing something right. Peja never really creates his own shots, almost all his 3's came off assists. Nothing wrong with that.

RimBender
07-26-2004, 12:48 PM
RimBender, I love your avatar.


He is barely even jumping too!

THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN, THROW IT DOWN.

Outsider
07-26-2004, 01:40 PM
Out of curiousity, how many people here have had a chance to meet Artest in person?

I have met him on several occations and have to say he is one of the most disarming and pleasant players to talk to and be around. he is intellegent (Math major at St. Johns) and articulate (rare for a basketball player anymore) and is nothing like the scary player he is deemed to be on the basketball court.

That being said, all of the situations I have met him in have been non-competative. As such, that side of him I have not seen.

My feelings is that one thing that sets an "intellegent" player apart from others is that they are able to change their game and correct their difficiencies. Now this doesn't happen overnight. and I think we are seeing Artest on this road to progress.

Guess what I am getting to is that SOOOO many people don't want to trade Bender until we see what he is about....I would say the same for Artest : Give him a chance before kicking him out the door.

Also, I haven't heard Bird or Walsh say they are looking to trade him. have I missed something or is it all just the rumor mill in overdrive again.....

Outsider

Mourning
07-26-2004, 01:44 PM
We aren't going to get Paul Pierce for Ron, except if we include probably Bender, picks, etc.

What we likely would get back is a "great" player like Rashard Lewis a Matt Harpring or a Bonzi Wells. Why? Because, other GMs EXPECT us to not get much in return, because we want to get rid of him. No way do we get a Paul Pierce in return. I could live with Shawn Marion, but I hate his contract. Peja? No, thanks! Nice in the regular, lousy AT BEST in the play-offs.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

PacerMan
07-26-2004, 02:07 PM
RimBender, I love your avatar.


He is barely even jumping too!

THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN, THROW IT DOWN.

trade him, he'll never be able to do that in a real game.! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

oh. ;)

Lord Helmet
07-26-2004, 02:09 PM
We aren't going to get Paul Pierce for Ron, except if we include probably Bender, picks, etc.

What we likely would get back is a "great" player like Rashard Lewis a Matt Harpring or a Bonzi Wells. Why? Because, other GMs EXPECT us to not get much in return, because we want to get rid of him. No way do we get a Paul Pierce in return. I could live with Shawn Marion, but I hate his contract. Peja? No, thanks! Nice in the regular, lousy AT BEST in the play-offs.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

I agree.Thats why we don't trade Ron.

RimBender
07-26-2004, 02:15 PM
We aren't going to get Paul Pierce for Ron, except if we include probably Bender, picks, etc.

What we likely would get back is a "great" player like Rashard Lewis a Matt Harpring or a Bonzi Wells. Why? Because, other GMs EXPECT us to not get much in return, because we want to get rid of him. No way do we get a Paul Pierce in return. I could live with Shawn Marion, but I hate his contract. Peja? No, thanks! Nice in the regular, lousy AT BEST in the play-offs.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:



:cheers:

Hicks
07-26-2004, 02:18 PM
I think Donnie has kept most of Ron's crap under the rug, so to speak. If they want to trade Ron, they can just claim he and JO don't get along.

Mourning
07-26-2004, 03:25 PM
We aren't going to get Paul Pierce for Ron, except if we include probably Bender, picks, etc.

What we likely would get back is a "great" player like Rashard Lewis a Matt Harpring or a Bonzi Wells. Why? Because, other GMs EXPECT us to not get much in return, because we want to get rid of him. No way do we get a Paul Pierce in return. I could live with Shawn Marion, but I hate his contract. Peja? No, thanks! Nice in the regular, lousy AT BEST in the play-offs.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

I agree.Thats why we don't trade Ron.


My point exactly!

Alabama-Redneck
07-26-2004, 03:26 PM
What, if by some strange quirk of fate Ron is not traded, does that mean there is not a "behind the scenes" problem and all this spectulation is just that, spectulation??

Does that mean all the absolute statements of Ron being gone could be incorrect?? :o :o :confused:

Hicks
07-26-2004, 03:28 PM
I'm not speculating.

Alabama-Redneck
07-26-2004, 03:31 PM
And your source is ???

Hicks
07-26-2004, 04:07 PM
All I'll say is we'll see how long Ron is here. If he's gone before the season is over (or even before it starts), then you know all you need to know about my source.