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View Full Version : Very interesting stats on defense



Hicks
07-25-2004, 03:46 PM
http://www.82games.com/comm26.htm

Unclebuck, you'll love what it does for Jeff Foster.

Interesting what it does to Artest.

Anthem
07-25-2004, 03:57 PM
I'm still trying to figure out their system. Foster dominated most of their entries, yet scores WAY DOWN the combined list.

And JAMAAL TINSLEY is the top backcourt defender. :laugh:

He's underrated, sure, and quite disruptive to the other team's O, but he's not the best backcourt defender in the league.

EDIT: Yeah, this is junk. Tinsley is the best defensive point guard? Freddie Jones is #3 and Reggie Miller is #5 among all shooting guards? Flawed.

SoupIsGood
07-25-2004, 04:09 PM
Well, I don't know what to think of that, but it makes Tinsley look like a defensive god.

MSA2CF
07-25-2004, 04:26 PM
Don't underestimate Jamaal.

Unclebuck
07-25-2004, 04:30 PM
Wow, I guess this proves why I don't pay attention to statistics.

Kegboy
07-25-2004, 05:04 PM
Well, maybe we don't need Sigg anymore after all, if Jamaal is such a superior defensive talent.

:lol2:

Really, what this rating shows is how important a team's defensive system is. At a glance it looks like we are the only team with our 5 starters rated at their position:

Tinsley #1
Miller #5
Artest #1
O'Neal #5
Foster #9

The fact that Detroit isn't points to something we already know, that Detroit's bench was much better defensively than ours.

Anthem
07-26-2004, 12:48 AM
Really, what this rating shows is how important a team's defensive system is.

See, I've been thinking about this. While the strong team defensive concept helps our players enough to make all of this moot, there could be one stat that you could pull from this: comparison of players at the same position on the same team.

What I'm getting at here is there are obvious procedural errors in this, could it be true that Tinsley is a better defender than AJ? I've been thinking back, and really Tinsley has done a good job defensively this year (I never thought I'd say that!).

Has he been better defensively than AJ? I haven't seen enough games to be able to tell. Anybody?

Kegboy
07-26-2004, 10:35 AM
Really, what this rating shows is how important a team's defensive system is.

See, I've been thinking about this. While the strong team defensive concept helps our players enough to make all of this moot, there could be one stat that you could pull from this: comparison of players at the same position on the same team.

What I'm getting at here is there are obvious procedural errors in this, could it be true that Tinsley is a better defender than AJ? I've been thinking back, and really Tinsley has done a good job defensively this year (I never thought I'd say that!).

Has he been better defensively than AJ? I haven't seen enough games to be able to tell. Anybody?

Well, I think it's safe to say that Tinsley's steals helps him with some of the ratings. And our system masks some of his deficiences, since an opposing point guard still has a second line of defense to get past if he blows by Jamaal.

Still, AJ's the better defensive player. He fell off a bit after that abdominal strain, and never fully recovered his speed because of it, but he's much more fundamentally sound.

I think, just like with plus/minus, you have to look at who Jamaal plays with, as opposed to AJ. To put it simply, our defense was much better when Jeff was on the floor as opposed to Al. Not only did Al not apply himself on D like he could, but moving JO to C hurts us defensively, because it takes away the weakside threat. You add in taking Artest off the floor, and it hurts our second unit even more.

This continues with Reggie. We all know Fred's a better defender, but, as a unit, our starters were just better defensively. When you've got a defensive front of Ron/JO/Jeff, it takes away what opponents try to do, and puts more pressure on the backcourt. Add in Ron taking out the opponents top swingman, whether he's in the front or backcourt, and it makes it very difficult for teams to score against our first unit. All of our starters benefit statistically from that, regardless of their individual shortcomings.