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Arcadian
07-22-2004, 07:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1844611

The title pretty much says it all.

21. Indiana Pacers


2003-04 RECORD: 61-21, lost in Eastern Conference finals
SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONS: G Stephen Jackson (acquired from Atlanta)
SIGNIFICANT LOSSES: F Al Harrington (traded to Atlanta)

Despite his team making the Eastern finals, Larry Bird obviously didn't like what he saw. He shipped Harrington off to the Hawks for Jackson, who got $44 million in a sign-and-trade deal and will ultimately be Reggie Miller's replacement. Jack has a lot of good attributes -- he's not afraid of anyone, he'll take and make big shots and he's got superior defensive instincts. But he clashed at times with Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and Rick Carlisle is cut from a similar coaching cloth. I don't expect Ron Artest to be on the opening-day roster, either; he's been shopped around all summer after his mystifying near-absence from the Pistons' series. The Pacers are still trying to figure out a way to get Dampier, but the biggest concern has to be Jermaine O'Neal's knee. He says he'll be okay, but no one is penciling him in for 80 games just yet. Even though Indiana dominated the Pistons in the regular season, Detroit won when it mattered, and the Pistons have gotten even better. Indiana needs to make another deal to keep pace.

Lord Helmet
07-22-2004, 07:32 PM
We just traded Al right?!Why would we trade Ron too!!Jermaine's knee will be 100% by the end of November (I hope)

Hoop
07-22-2004, 07:45 PM
I don't buy that we shopped Artest all summer, we may have had calls about him from other teams though. We may have offered him for T-Mac, I don't call that shopping him all around.

zxc
07-22-2004, 07:49 PM
Yeah I don't think they have actively been shopping him around either outside of the Mcgrady thing. I really doubt they move him now that Al is gone. They had Bird on NBA TV during our game on tuesday and the way he talked sure sounded like Ron was in the plans for next season.

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 07:58 PM
Ron will be traded either before the season starts or by mid-season at the latest. I'm quite certain he won't be around for next year's playoffs. If the right deal comes along, Ron is gone.

Oh, and we are NOT trying to figure out a way to get Damp.

Hicks
07-22-2004, 07:59 PM
I think the longest Ron is a Pacer is until August '05. But I think that's as long as he will be at max.

Roaming Gnome
07-22-2004, 08:12 PM
:pissed: :pissed2: :banghead2: :boo: :grr: :smash: :soundoff: :ticked: :devilrolleyes:

Eventhough, I would be strait pissed if we got rid of Artest...I just want all the speculation to end already! If the powers that be feel Ron needs to hit the road, at least get something decent for him instead of trying to sell us on another Scot Pollard type of fiasco.

It better be an All-Star in return :smash:!

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 08:15 PM
Eventhough, I would be strait pissed if we got rid of Artest...I just want all the speculation to end already! If the powers that be feel Ron needs to hit the road, at least get something decent for him instead of trying to sell us on another Scot Pollard type of fiasco.

It better be an All-Star in return.

Ron will only be traded if they can get equal or better value in return. And that won't be easy so management will be patient about it.

Pacer4fun
07-22-2004, 08:22 PM
Bulletproof,
a number of posts by you have stated that Artest is not wanted by the Pacers because of behind the scens and once again you are saying he is gone....do you have inside info??

Also what do you mean that we are NOT trying to figure a way to get Damp? Does that mean we don't want Damp or that we have a way to get Damp?

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 08:25 PM
I'm saying that no offer has been made for Damp and no offer will be made.

Hicks
07-22-2004, 08:33 PM
Eventhough, I would be strait pissed if we got rid of Artest...I just want all the speculation to end already! If the powers that be feel Ron needs to hit the road, at least get something decent for him instead of trying to sell us on another Scot Pollard type of fiasco.

It better be an All-Star in return.

Ron will only be traded if they can get equal or better value in return. And that won't be easy so management will be patient about it.


They will never get equal or better value for him, because aside from the biggest star players there really isn't any. But they can get someone nearly as good, but obviously no matter who they get will be a step down defensively. I'm still hoping Paul Pierce is the man we get.

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 08:43 PM
They will never get equal or better value for him, because aside from the biggest star players there really isn't any. But they can get someone nearly as good, but obviously no matter who they get will be a step down defensively. I'm still hoping Paul Pierce is the man we get.



Equal or better value is subjective. I have little doubt that Donnie or Larry wouldn't trade Ron unless they felt like they could get someone of commeasurate or better value. And regardless of who we got in return, there will always those who would feel there isn't anyone worth Ron short of a handful of superstars.

SoupIsGood
07-22-2004, 09:19 PM
BP, how are you sure about this stuff? Unless you have inside info, it seems kind of weird to say something has no chance at all of happening.

Although I hope your right, I don't want Dampier.

PacerMan
07-22-2004, 09:32 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1844611

The title pretty much says it all.

21. Indiana Pacers


2003-04 RECORD: 61-21, lost in Eastern Conference finals
SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONS: G Stephen Jackson (acquired from Atlanta)
SIGNIFICANT LOSSES: F Al Harrington (traded to Atlanta)

Despite his team making the Eastern finals, Larry Bird obviously didn't like what he saw. He shipped Harrington off to the Hawks for Jackson, who got $44 million in a sign-and-trade deal and will ultimately be Reggie Miller's replacement. Jack has a lot of good attributes -- he's not afraid of anyone, he'll take and make big shots and he's got superior defensive instincts. But he clashed at times with Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and Rick Carlisle is cut from a similar coaching cloth. I don't expect Ron Artest to be on the opening-day roster, either; he's been shopped around all summer after his mystifying near-absence from the Pistons' series. The Pacers are still trying to figure out a way to get Dampier, but the biggest concern has to be Jermaine O'Neal's knee. He says he'll be okay, but no one is penciling him in for 80 games just yet. Even though Indiana dominated the Pistons in the regular season, Detroit won when it mattered, and the Pistons have gotten even better. Indiana needs to make another deal to keep pace.



That whole article is full of holes, if he's really an NBA writer he's an idiot.
is there anybody ELSE that doesn't know that Jermaine,Tinsley and Freddie were all damaged goods against the pistons?? We dont' need to do ANYTHING to "keep pace". He's a moron.
And I've not heard ONE word of worry about Jermianes knee being ok.:rolleyes:

Bball
07-22-2004, 09:37 PM
Bulletproof is DW's proctologist. He let the cat outta the bag a few weeks ago. Obviously some people need to pay more attention! ;) :P

BTW... IMHO... the Pacers off season is pretty much done unless somebody has a very good offer for Artest (who I believe the Pacers would like to move if at all possible without getting skinned). Altho to some it might not seem we've done much, compared to offseason's past we've torn up the plan. We re-signed AJ to a 4 year deal (in the past we let Ollie walk after proving to be (IMO) a solid backup... and we all know Jax was allowed to walk even tho he was a starter and Reggie's pal). We've been involved in a sign and trade (apparently on our terms) to get a shooting guard who can and will shoot. The BMiller deal not withstanding, Walsh has declared in the past that he is not inclined to be involved in sign and trades (tho I guess the 'signing' was more on the other side). Still, we traded one of the pet projects instead of sticking with him no matter what.


Personally, I think the nature of the next few years of the NBA has now been written and it will be a physical rough and tumble game with solid fundamental play. The Pistons are the team to beat. I'm not sure how Bender ever fits into this. I thought he'd be gone and it still wouldn't surprise me tho I get the feeling that DW has invested so much time and money into him that they don't want to give up now. Injury and a new coach has bought him another season to flame or flameout once again...

...But what do I know?

-Bball

Bball
07-22-2004, 09:44 PM
That whole article is full of holes, if he's really an NBA writer he's an idiot.
is there anybody ELSE that doesn't know that Jermaine,Tinsley and Freddie were all damaged goods against the pistons?? We dont' need to do ANYTHING to "keep pace". He's a moron.


The Pistons were better and won't be getting worse any time soon. They leapfrogged us and never looked back midseason. Maybe some outside shooting from SJack will make a difference but the injury excuse isn't going to get it.



And I've not heard ONE word of worry about Jermianes knee being ok.:rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of the Indiana Pacers and the Indpls Star. JO could have his lower leg amputated and the star would drop a line in some story about some 'concern' over JO's leg some weeks later... and finally let us all in on the secret several weeks after that... but only when the team gives the "OK". IOW, no news is neither good news or bad news in this regard.

I'm not saying there's anything to the story's mention of JO's knee. I'm just saying don't discount it based on the Star's 'quiet'.

-Bball

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 09:45 PM
BP, how are you sure about this stuff? Unless you have inside info, it seems kind of weird to say something has no chance at all of happening.

Although I hope your right, I don't want Dampier.

Yeah, I just like coming on here and throwing out random thoughts from time to time to see if anyone bites.

Anthem
07-22-2004, 09:48 PM
And regardless of who we got in return, there will always those who would feel there isn't anyone worth Ron short of a handful of superstars.


Yeah, count me there. Who would you say is an equal trade? How many 2's and 3's are there that you'd trade Artest for? Not many in my book.

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 09:55 PM
And regardless of who we got in return, there will always those who would feel there isn't anyone worth Ron short of a handful of superstars.


Yeah, count me there. Who would you say is an equal trade? How many 2's and 3's are there that you'd trade Artest for? Not many in my book.

I wouldn't disagree with you there, and thankfully that's not for you or I to decide. It could be one player or a combination of players. Either way, Ron won't be moved for just anyone.

Young
07-22-2004, 10:39 PM
I think that there is a possiabilty that Artest is traded.

And if he is I hope we can get good players and/or dump Crosheres contract.

What we need:

- Small Forward
If Artest is traded there would be a hole there. I know we have Stephen Jackson but I still think that we would need a SF.
- Center
We still could use an upgrade here.

Possiable destinations for Artest:

- Memphis
They have reportedly had interest and can offer alot of diffrent combinations of swingmen and such.
- Sacramento
It would be swaping Artest for Peja which I would defentily be against but still is a possiabilty.
- Phoenix
Shawn Marion is reportedly on the block and they are unlikely to get QRich. They need a Center so maybe Artest/Pollard for Marion/? would be to there liking.
- New Jersey
Richard Jefferson may want traded and the new owners in NJ would like Artest. He is a good player, cheap, and cheap for seasons to come.
- Los Angeles
They may try and throw Caron Butler or Lamar Odom our way. But it would be a few mounths before they can be traded.

This is just me speculating. These may or may not be possiabilties.

indygeezer
07-22-2004, 10:49 PM
Paul Pierce??? :suicide: Somebody get me a vomit sock. I haven't liked him since I saw him in the World Games. SInce we now have JAx do we really need PP's scoring? Wouldn't we be better with a scorer and rebounder? Do we really need another MAJOR option, one who needs the ball...alot?

Kegboy
07-22-2004, 10:54 PM
This really disturbs me.

If it was any other writer, I'd blow it off as nonsense. But, IMO, David Aldridge is far and away the best NBA reporter around. He's the only reporter ESPN has that's worth a hill of beans (except maybe John Clayton, but he can be a real ***.)

At the party, we all just took it as fact that with Al traded, that meant Ron was here to stay. Frankly, I can't see us getting equal value at all, except for if we got Pierce (who I can't stand, but he's still damn good.)

Plus, if JO's health was a question, I really can't see trading Al. Unless Bird thinks Cro can fill in, which I'm scared is true in his mind.

Maybe I'm just paranoid. I'm debating on whether to re-up my tickets for next season, and the money's due 2 weeks from tomorrow. I'm terrified that right after I give them my money Larry's gonna swoop down and totally f#ck up this team. :shudder:

One more thing. If we are shopping Artest, than we aren't interested in Dampier. If we wanted him and this were true, Ron would be gone already.

bulletproof
07-22-2004, 10:59 PM
This really disturbs me.

If it was any other writer, I'd blow it off as nonsense. But, IMO, David Aldridge is far and away the best NBA reporter around. He's the only reporter ESPN has that's worth a hill of beans (except maybe John Clayton, but he can be a real ***.)

At the party, we all just took it as fact that with Al traded, that meant Ron was here to stay. Frankly, I can't see us getting equal value at all, except for if we got Pierce (who I can't stand, but he's still damn good.)

Plus, if JO's health was a question, I really can't see trading Al. Unless Bird thinks Cro can fill in, which I'm scared is true in his mind.

Maybe I'm just paranoid. I'm debating on whether to re-up my tickets for next season, and the money's due 2 weeks from tomorrow. I'm terrified that right after I give them my money Larry's gonna swoop down and totally f#ck up this team. :shudder:

One more thing. If we are shopping Artest, than we aren't interested in Dampier. If we wanted him and this were true, Ron would be gone already.

Well, he's wrong about Dampier. There has been no offer made for him, nor will there be one.

indygeezer
07-22-2004, 11:00 PM
I really really believe Dampier has a gimpy knee and the P's know it and are staying away completely. I remember it being mentioned slightly when he was a rook, and he's missed alot of games over the years.

Kegboy...spend the money, you'll be glad you did. Take it from a wise old geezer who made the mistke of giving up his seats too many years ago.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-22-2004, 11:07 PM
This really disturbs me.

If it was any other writer, I'd blow it off as nonsense. But, IMO, David Aldridge is far and away the best NBA reporter around. He's the only reporter ESPN has that's worth a hill of beans (except maybe John Clayton, but he can be a real ***.)

Wow, I was going to say the exact same thing!!! David Aldridge is a top notch reporter!

That said, I doubt we will make a bad deal for Ron, if in fact we do trade him.

I wish we would stop judging everything based on playoff performace... i.e. Austin's contract, Ron's potential trade, acquiring SJax...

The Pacers lost as a team, not only due to Ron Artest!!

indygeezer
07-22-2004, 11:41 PM
There have been rumblings about behind the scene things with Ron this year. And lest we forget the near melt-down during the PO's. Unnecessary stupid fouls late in a winable game, missed practices and flights, missed exit interviews. Say what you will, I think there is a lot of Spin doctoring going on to cover-up for RA in order to keep his trade value high.

Hoop
07-22-2004, 11:44 PM
I don't see how we can ever get equal value for Ron. If we ever trade him we'll take a @ss beating, inless we include some bad contracts with him. I can't see us finding a player to trade for with his production that even remotely matches his salary.

Production per dollar, there may not be a better player in the league. Ron has a CHEAP contract and is locked up till 2008.

04-05 - 5,850,000
05-06 - 6,500,000
06-07 - 7,150,000
07-08 - 7,800,000
08-09 - 8,450,000 <Player Option

Ultimate Frisbee
07-23-2004, 12:04 AM
Only a new draft pick such as Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, or Carmelo Anthony would do...

canyoufeelit
07-23-2004, 12:10 AM
The fact that this is an Aldridge article nonwithstanding, I still think this article is hogwash. LB is no fool and knows how valuable Artest is to this team. Danny Ainge has said repeatedly that he has absolutely no intentions of trading Paul Pierce, Shawn Marion < Artest, Vince Carter isn't coming (that's a good thing btw) to Indiana, etc . The best explanation I've heard so far is that Artest was on the block for the T-Mac rumors but has been off ever since and that's what I would stick with. Larry, Donnie, and Rick know this team needs only a few tweaks (Jax) to reload for next year though I'm not sure we'll win quite as many games without a starting-quality PF like Harrington coming off the bench, it'll benefit us in the long run. Plus, the window of opportunity for this group (everybody except Reggie really) is bigger than any other serious contender right now. With that said, I think we stick with Ron until his contract is up and see what happens from there. And yes, since this was a relatively long post (to my standards) this calls for the rockin' signature :cool:

bulletproof
07-23-2004, 12:16 AM
With that said, I think we stick with Ron until his contract is up and see what happens from there.

I will be incredibly surprised if Ron is here past mid-season.

canyoufeelit
07-23-2004, 12:25 AM
Hey, I'm not saying I have a basketball "sixth sense" like certain users (:laugh:) but why in Donnie's and Larry's right minds do they trade the DPOY coming off his first all-star season? How valuable is Ron as a player on this team? What would you consider as equal value for Ron? Can you put together a deal which ships Ron out of town where the Pacers don't get thoroughly raped by the other team?

(I think life without Ron wouldn't be so bad since Jermaine is also a great defender and overall we're a pretty good defensive team, but Ron is definitely our stopper)

Suaveness
07-23-2004, 12:31 AM
I don't know why in the world we would trade Al and Ron both. That would severly deplete our frontcourt.

Arcadian
07-23-2004, 12:45 AM
Should Ron be traded I be upset. Not because we traded Ron but because we blew up a young team that won 62 games went to the conference finals, and really only has maybe two teams in the conference which can compete with us. I just don't believe that you trade two of the team's top three players in the off season following that kind of success.

Arcadian
07-23-2004, 12:46 AM
I agree with the above post whole heartedly.

Anthem
07-23-2004, 12:49 AM
And regardless of who we got in return, there will always those who would feel there isn't anyone worth Ron short of a handful of superstars.


Yeah, count me there. Who would you say is an equal trade? How many 2's and 3's are there that you'd trade Artest for? Not many in my book.

I wouldn't disagree with you there, and thankfully that's not for you or I to decide. It could be one player or a combination of players. Either way, Ron won't be moved for just anyone.

Then he won't be moved. The Pacers won't get equal value in return for him, and if they wait for it he'll stay here forever. Exhibit 1: Croshere.

Besides, Artest has improved as steadily as anyone on the team not named Jermaine. He started to win a lot of people over this year with his increases in maturity. A similar increase next year would put him solidly in my "keep him for life" group.

Anthem
07-23-2004, 02:18 AM
Replacing Ron Artest with Bruce Bowen is like replacing your ferrari with.... well the analogy fails me but it's not good.

If we replace Ron Artest, I want somebody a darned sight better than Bruce Bowen.

canyoufeelit
07-23-2004, 02:24 AM
To be fair, Brucey is the one guy who really shuts Rip down

The guy I'd consider as equal value would probably be Richard Jefferson. Really coming into his own as a scorer, playmaker, defender, etc. and what have you... And probably the most realistic option with the destruction of the Nets and all

Paul Pierce isn't walking through that door, folks. :laugh:

Lord Helmet
07-23-2004, 02:30 AM
No Paul Pierce.Don't trade Ronnie!!!I don't think LB and Donnie are sick of a DPOY who scores 18 ppg.Why trade Ron after dealing Al makes no sense to me.

Bball
07-23-2004, 02:39 AM
Should Ron be traded I be upset. Not because we traded Ron but because we blew up a young team that won 62 games went to the conference finals, and really only has maybe two teams in the conference which can compete with us. I just don't believe that you trade two of the team's top three players in the off season following that kind of success.

I think we're going to find losing Al isn't really the 'blow' some think it is. We carved out a role for Al to fill... and sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. The same can be done for someone else.

If Al was half the player he thought he was he'd be a pretty darned good player... but he's not.

Therefore, I don't see his loss impacting us much at all. We might be able to trade another player (or two) and (assuming we don't get another Bender in return (long term project) we could go on without missing a beat.

The keys probably remain JO and Carlisle's system... with a PG to implement it and not blow it up.

-Bball

Grammar

indygeezer
07-23-2004, 06:53 AM
This thread set me to thinking about the PO's :wah: and Ron's play. IMO, when things got tough he quit trusting his teamates and the system. Instead of feeding his teamates he took stupid long 3 pt shots. Instead of trusting the system, he quit passing and took it all upon himself. He biatched about the the system 3-4 times during the season and when it came to crunch time, he took it upon himself to do it all rather than play team ball. His temerament deteriorated as the ECF went along and as the pressure mounted he became less stable emotionally.

I want Ron to succeed and I'd prefer he did it here, but if the brass see and know things that tells them he needs to go, I'll believe in the system,

RWB
07-23-2004, 08:13 AM
We've seen what distractions Ron can cause, but make no mistake if its as bad as we make it out to be Bird would have already shipped his butt out equal value or not. Bird may have a better understanding of Ron than what we think considering while he can hide his emotions I've heard he has one hell of a temper.

Finally, the one good thing I'm sure of is at least the behind the scenes stuff is not criminal.

fwpacerfan
07-23-2004, 08:48 AM
This really disturbs me.

If it was any other writer, I'd blow it off as nonsense. But, IMO, David Aldridge is far and away the best NBA reporter around. He's the only reporter ESPN has that's worth a hill of beans (except maybe John Clayton, but he can be a real ***.)

At the party, we all just took it as fact that with Al traded, that meant Ron was here to stay. Frankly, I can't see us getting equal value at all, except for if we got Pierce (who I can't stand, but he's still damn good.)

Plus, if JO's health was a question, I really can't see trading Al. Unless Bird thinks Cro can fill in, which I'm scared is true in his mind.

Maybe I'm just paranoid. I'm debating on whether to re-up my tickets for next season, and the money's due 2 weeks from tomorrow. I'm terrified that right after I give them my money Larry's gonna swoop down and totally f#ck up this team. :shudder:

One more thing. If we are shopping Artest, than we aren't interested in Dampier. If we wanted him and this were true, Ron would be gone already.

I think Aldridge USED to be the best NBA writer around but he seems to have lost his edge. I don't remember him being right about any trade speculation in the last year or so. The only time he is right is when he 'breaks' a story the night before it is announced.

naptownmenace
07-23-2004, 08:50 AM
I don't think there is much to those statements by David Aldridge (although I think he's one of the best in the NBA game).

However, If the Pacers were going to persue a trade, I'd hope to get James Posey and Stromile Swift from Memphis. A combination of Artest/Pollard for Posey and Swift would be palatable. Or I'd take Posey and Battier instead.

Posey is a good defender himself and he's one of the few players that gave Ron fits offensively this year (they're good friends and even have the same agent IIRC).

I also love Shawn Marion. He's a huge Reggie Miller fan too (that's why he chose the number 31 for his jersey). Marion's a good defender, a better rebounder than Ron, and more athletic.

If he's traded for someone less than those that I mentioned above... it wouldn't be worth it.

PacerStud
07-23-2004, 08:59 AM
I know this. I know that. No way this happens. No way we were shopping anyone. Aldrige is wrong.

Amazing. Like anyone here has the slightest clue as to what is going on in the Pacers front office. I'll listen to DA (one of the few decent guys ESPN has left) instead.

Ron went completely away from the team concept against Detroit (and was leaning that way against Miami). Then blows off his meeting with Bird. Any way you look at that, it's not the actions of a team player. And then there's that damn 30 footer against Detroit and the thing with Rip.

Think about it - we're putting a lot of faith, hope, trust, money, etc. in a guy that needs to take daily medication to keep his emotions and temper in check. Maybe it's just not working out the way everyone thought.

RWB
07-23-2004, 09:13 AM
I know this. I know that. No way this happens. No way we were shopping anyone. Aldrige is wrong.

Amazing. Like anyone here has the slightest clue as to what is going on in the Pacers front office. I'll listen to DA (one of the few decent guys ESPN has left) instead.

Ron went completely away from the team concept against Detroit (and was leaning that way against Miami). Then blows off his meeting with Bird. Any way you look at that, it's not the actions of a team player. And then there's that damn 30 footer against Detroit and the thing with Rip.

Think about it - we're putting a lot of faith, hope, trust, money, etc. in a guy that needs to take daily medication to keep his emotions and temper in check. Maybe it's just not working out the way everyone thought.

You might be very surprised to find out Pacer fans may know as much about the Ps as Aldridge

Dukins
07-23-2004, 09:50 AM
I think that ultimately Ron will be traded, but not at the moment. LB will not deal with Ron's mental breakdowns too much longer. When the going gets tough Ron gets to throwing bricks up. Alot of his shots were forced not only in the playoffs but the regular season. I wouldnt mind keeping Ronnie if he understand this is a team. Last year JO reached out to him outside of the basketball realm. It doenst seem like Ron has gotten it yet.

I dont think too much change is necessary. Im glad that LB isnt rushing to get rid of ROn just for the sake of moving him. Ron is a valuable asset at times. I agree with most everyone if it isnt for a Marion, Carter or some others youve mentioned its not necessary. Hey if we are at a critical part of the game we can always pull him out.

PacerMan
07-23-2004, 10:06 AM
Should Ron be traded I be upset. Not because we traded Ron but because we blew up a young team that won 62 games went to the conference finals, and really only has maybe two teams in the conference which can compete with us. I just don't believe that you trade two of the team's top three players in the off season following that kind of success.

I think we're going to find losing Al isn't really the 'blow' some think it is. We carved out a role for Al to fill... and sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. The same can be done for someone else.

If Al was half the player he thought he was he'd be a pretty darned good player... but he's not.

Therefore, I don't see his loss impacting us much at all. We might be able to trade another player (or two) and (assuming we don't get another Bender in return (long term project) we could go on without missing a beat.

The keys probably remain JO and Carlisle's system... with a PG to implement it and not blow it up.

-Bball




I think you're wrong about Al and hope that we don't find out the hard way. If Jermaine misses any time we no longer have someone to take his place. We then would miss him WAYYYYYY badly.

PacerMan
07-23-2004, 10:10 AM
That whole article is full of holes, if he's really an NBA writer he's an idiot.
is there anybody ELSE that doesn't know that Jermaine,Tinsley and Freddie were all damaged goods against the pistons?? We dont' need to do ANYTHING to "keep pace". He's a moron.


The Pistons were better and won't be getting worse any time soon. They leapfrogged us and never looked back midseason. Maybe some outside shooting from SJack will make a difference but the injury excuse isn't going to get it.



And I've not heard ONE word of worry about Jermianes knee being ok.:rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of the Indiana Pacers and the Indpls Star. JO could have his lower leg amputated and the star would drop a line in some story about some 'concern' over JO's leg some weeks later... and finally let us all in on the secret several weeks after that... but only when the team gives the "OK". IOW, no news is neither good news or bad news in this regard.

I'm not saying there's anything to the story's mention of JO's knee. I'm just saying don't discount it based on the Star's 'quiet'.

-Bball




Injury excuse?? Where the hell were you? THey WERE injured and if you don't think it altered this team DRASTICALLY then you're clueless about the Pacers.
Tinsleys injury ALONE changed us dramatically. He was playing VERY well prior. Freddie was our best guard down the stretch before hurting his shoulder.
Oh yeh, that Jermaine guy is pretty good too, thinking playing on 1 leg might have hobbled him a bit??
What are you, a clueless piston fan? :rolleyes:

Bball
07-23-2004, 11:08 AM
That whole article is full of holes, if he's really an NBA writer he's an idiot.
is there anybody ELSE that doesn't know that Jermaine,Tinsley and Freddie were all damaged goods against the pistons?? We dont' need to do ANYTHING to "keep pace". He's a moron.


The Pistons were better and won't be getting worse any time soon. They leapfrogged us and never looked back midseason. Maybe some outside shooting from SJack will make a difference but the injury excuse isn't going to get it.



And I've not heard ONE word of worry about Jermianes knee being ok.:rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of the Indiana Pacers and the Indpls Star. JO could have his lower leg amputated and the star would drop a line in some story about some 'concern' over JO's leg some weeks later... and finally let us all in on the secret several weeks after that... but only when the team gives the "OK". IOW, no news is neither good news or bad news in this regard.

I'm not saying there's anything to the story's mention of JO's knee. I'm just saying don't discount it based on the Star's 'quiet'.

-Bball




Injury excuse?? Where the hell were you? THey WERE injured and if you don't think it altered this team DRASTICALLY then you're clueless about the Pacers.
Tinsleys injury ALONE changed us dramatically. He was playing VERY well prior. Freddie was our best guard down the stretch before hurting his shoulder.
Oh yeh, that Jermaine guy is pretty good too, thinking playing on 1 leg might have hobbled him a bit??
What are you, a clueless piston fan? :rolleyes:


I'm someone that saw the Pistons as a monumental hurdle heading into the playoffs and, while injuries were part of the games, I don't see the injuries making that kind of difference. Not the difference between winning and losing.

We would've played better at full strength but we were behind the 8 ball most of the playoffs. Detroit had our number heading into the last half of the season.

Hopefully, SJack brings some missing scoring to the team.

-Bball

bulletproof
07-23-2004, 12:05 PM
I know this. I know that. No way this happens. No way we were shopping anyone. Aldrige is wrong.

Amazing. Like anyone here has the slightest clue as to what is going on in the Pacers front office. I'll listen to DA (one of the few decent guys ESPN has left) instead.

Ron went completely away from the team concept against Detroit (and was leaning that way against Miami). Then blows off his meeting with Bird. Any way you look at that, it's not the actions of a team player. And then there's that damn 30 footer against Detroit and the thing with Rip.

Think about it - we're putting a lot of faith, hope, trust, money, etc. in a guy that needs to take daily medication to keep his emotions and temper in check. Maybe it's just not working out the way everyone thought.

You might be very surprised to find out Pacer fans may know as much about the Ps as Aldridge

And some even know more.

IndianaMan
07-23-2004, 12:29 PM
What bout Ray Allen???!!!

Arcadian
07-23-2004, 12:36 PM
Should Ron be traded I be upset. Not because we traded Ron but because we blew up a young team that won 62 games went to the conference finals, and really only has maybe two teams in the conference which can compete with us. I just don't believe that you trade two of the team's top three players in the off season following that kind of success.

I think we're going to find losing Al isn't really the 'blow' some think it is. We carved out a role for Al to fill... and sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. The same can be done for someone else.

If Al was half the player he thought he was he'd be a pretty darned good player... but he's not.

Therefore, I don't see his loss impacting us much at all. We might be able to trade another player (or two) and (assuming we don't get another Bender in return (long term project) we could go on without missing a beat.

The keys probably remain JO and Carlisle's system... with a PG to implement it and not blow it up.

-Bball


Sorry Bball you can bash Al all you want but I will still consider trading two of your top three leaders in mins and scoring blowing up the team.

I don't see JO as a player who automatically gets his team 50 wins.

PacerMan
07-23-2004, 12:38 PM
[quote=Bball][
I'm someone that saw the Pistons as a monumental hurdle heading into the playoffs and, while injuries were part of the games, I don't see the injuries making that kind of difference. Not the difference between winning and losing.

Top 3 in the MVP is hobbled and you don't see that as the difference between winning and losing." :confused::rolleyes:

PS - If you really couldn't see how well Tins was playing before he got hurt.......:o:o:o

WOW :laugh:

PacerMan
07-23-2004, 12:39 PM
What I found more interesting than what he actually wrote in the article was the Aldridge put the Pacers on the list of the 10 biggest losers in the NBA's offseason. I'm not sure if that assumes that we will do something dumb with Artest, but I think that is crazy. We are clearly an improved team with Jackson.

28 teams in the league. NOBODY knows the ins and outs of every team. He SURE as hell doesn't know ours.;)

Harddrive7
07-23-2004, 12:42 PM
Has anyone heard this before??? I stole this from the Indystar board. Just wondering if there is any truth to it?


Ron did not JUST miss a meeting with Bird. Ron also got bent out of shape after game 4 when the PLAYERS called a meeting and singled out him and Al for for doing too much freelancing on offense instead of running the called plays. His reaction to that was to act like a 12 year old kid and skip practice on the off day between games 4 and 5. To miss the shoot around before game 5. To miss practice between games 5 and 6. To miss the team flight out of Indy the night before game 6 and took a commercial flight to Detroit the day of the game. Missed the shoot around before game 6. And still continued to do what ever he wanted on offense in games 5 and 6 instead of doing what the rest of theam was trying to do. Pulling all of that bullcrap with our team in position to win a championship is not acceptable. PERIOD.

Now, Ron is still a young man and has shown improvement with his poor behaviour. It is still possible for him to grow up and be a real man. But it is not just the coaches/management that are getting tired of Rons act. It is his team mates. If his antics are disrupting team chemistry then he needs to go.

My gut feeling is that DW/LB are going to see how he approaches this coming season before making a move where he is concerned. But if he continues with his team disrupting behaviour he will be gone for whatever we can get by the trade deadline.

bulletproof
07-23-2004, 12:52 PM
My gut feeling is that DW/LB are going to see how he approaches this coming season before making a move where he is concerned. But if he continues with his team disrupting behaviour he will be gone for whatever we can get by the trade deadline.

One thing is certain, they won't wait until next year's playoffs to see if he can pull it together. Too risky.

Bball
07-23-2004, 12:53 PM
[quote=Bball][
I'm someone that saw the Pistons as a monumental hurdle heading into the playoffs and, while injuries were part of the games, I don't see the injuries making that kind of difference. Not the difference between winning and losing.

Top 3 in the MVP is hobbled and you don't see that as the difference between winning and losing." :confused::rolleyes:

PS - If you really couldn't see how well Tins was playing before he got hurt.......:o:o:o

WOW :laugh:



You're missing my point.... Even at full strength I don't think we would've beaten the Pistons. JO's injury was late in the series so wasn't a factor until the end.

The Pistons had experience and a solid lineup and system on their side. And they had the needed pieces working for them to balance things out.

Seeing what I saw during the series I believe it was close (if we were at full strength) but the Pistons were the better team. The injuries aren't why we lost IMHO.

-Bball

Bball
07-23-2004, 12:57 PM
Has anyone heard this before??? I stole this from the Indystar board. Just wondering if there is any truth to it?


Ron did not JUST miss a meeting with Bird. Ron also got bent out of shape after game 4 when the PLAYERS called a meeting and singled out him and Al for for doing too much freelancing on offense instead of running the called plays. His reaction to that was to act like a 12 year old kid and skip practice on the off day between games 4 and 5. To miss the shoot around before game 5. To miss practice between games 5 and 6. To miss the team flight out of Indy the night before game 6 and took a commercial flight to Detroit the day of the game. Missed the shoot around before game 6. And still continued to do what ever he wanted on offense in games 5 and 6 instead of doing what the rest of theam was trying to do. Pulling all of that bullcrap with our team in position to win a championship is not acceptable. PERIOD.

Now, Ron is still a young man and has shown improvement with his poor behaviour. It is still possible for him to grow up and be a real man. But it is not just the coaches/management that are getting tired of Rons act. It is his team mates. If his antics are disrupting team chemistry then he needs to go.

My gut feeling is that DW/LB are going to see how he approaches this coming season before making a move where he is concerned. But if he continues with his team disrupting behaviour he will be gone for whatever we can get by the trade deadline.



I've not heard that but I've heard those type of things. I'm sure the missed practices/shootarounds weren't malicious... I bet he had a migraine! :rolleyes:

:(

Bball

Harddrive7
07-23-2004, 01:07 PM
"You're missing my point.... Even at full strength I don't think we would've beaten the Pistons. JO's injury was late in the series so wasn't a factor until the end."


Thank you, sheeesh, this kills me everytime I hear someone say anything about injuries costing us this series..

We got beat by some incredible defense. It was not a fluke that we nor the Lakers could score against them. They were definitely, to say the least the better team.

Let it go, regroup and let's go at'em again next year.

Suaveness
07-23-2004, 03:01 PM
And what were we playing, street ball? We played defense almost as good as theirs. JO's injury was not later, it was in the middle. Tinsley's was more devastating. We lost all PG presence after that. We could have won.

Mourning
07-24-2004, 08:33 AM
And what were we playing, street ball? We played defense almost as good as theirs. JO's injury was not later, it was in the middle. Tinsley's was more devastating. We lost all PG presence after that. We could have won.

Amen! Couldn't aggree more with you. Just take a look at the shots Tins kept taking (and had to to prevent him from not being totally left unguarded) and how a huge amount of those shots fell short, because he couldn't get a decent lift-off anymore. Further, the fast and accurate ball distributing was totally GONE after he got injured. You just can't deny that and say it didn't seriously impact the series. It wou;d have been 7 games in my opininion and a very close 7th game I think, but the fact is that its something that COULD have been, but hasn't. Still the injuries to some of our important players left a serous impact on the play of our team.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Mourning
07-24-2004, 08:39 AM
To someone who said:

"what about Ray Allen?" I say ... please, NO!!!

He's a SG, we have enough backcourt for now IMO and why take a player with at best "suspect" D and a fairly large number of injuries and a HIGH contract for someone who has a relatively LOW contract, way more years on it, is the top-notch defender of this past season, has pretty good and improving offense too, is still quite young and so could be expexted to keep improving, has not had that many injuries and ... well what more reasons do you need to see that Allen isnt what we should be trading for?
Besides ... Ray hasn't been quite the best lockerroom player himself either in Milwaukee (though he did have something to complain about there:laugh:).

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Mourning
07-24-2004, 08:58 AM
I WOULD trade Ron IF I had too for Shawn Marion though! We probably would have to include a Center though. I wouldnt mind too much including Pollard, I guess:p.

Marion is a great player, both offensively and defensivley, good lockkerroom presence as far as I know, plays SF, but rebounds like a PF (and we need more of that), has great athletic ability, has size, has speed, can create for himself, has an inside and an outside shot, is still young, has a HIGH but longterm contract, so he won't be leaving anytime soon, scores high in minutes p/g, efficiency rating and has decent to superior FG%, 3PT% and FT%.

I would aggree to Marion coming here for Ron and Scott who likes to plat buptempo and has aleast proven something in SacTown, I guess.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Unclebuck
07-24-2004, 09:49 AM
Shawn Marion is available, but I have always thouht he was overrated

PacerBlade
07-24-2004, 10:17 AM
btw David Aldridge was fired by espn. That was stupid move!

RimBender
07-24-2004, 10:27 AM
:o Shawn Marion overrated?!?!? :o

I hope we just keep Artest, I don't think anyone else in the league is as good as him 1 on 1 on d.

Every night he out scores his opponent and makes them look bad, let's stop the trade talk on Ron untill in actually becomes in any form, true.

Mourning
07-24-2004, 10:57 AM
Shawn Marion is available, but I have always thouht he was overrated

Ehh... Care to elaborate on that Buck? Because I happen to think the opposite to be honest. The man statistics don't lie, now I know those never tell the whole story, but what negatives, except his contract, do we know about him? So, he likes to dunk and some people only think he is grea becasue of that, so what? I don't care about that, because I think he has so much more to offer.

Again, I DO NOT want to trade Artest at all, but IF he is going to be traded (I'm following the reasoning of some posters on here that 100% believe that he will be) than I think Marion would be one of the players that would fill our needs excellently.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Anthem
07-24-2004, 11:09 AM
I like Marion. He's the only player I really wish we would have drafted instead of Bender. I've never been a fan of Wally or A.Miller.