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indygeezer
03-25-2010, 06:24 AM
Butler vs. Syracuse !! :-o


this is what it felt like to be a small school fan back in the days of single class basketball tourneys. :dance::dance::dance:

Speed
03-25-2010, 06:52 AM
Giving that look "Shooter" gave in Hoosiers when Hickory/Milan was winning state.

travmil
03-25-2010, 09:33 AM
I hope they practiced The Pickett Fence.

Justin Tyme
03-25-2010, 10:18 AM
Or the Wonder Five. Some are saying who? The Wonder Five was a high school basketball team from Franklin, IN (countyseat of Johnson county just south of Indy) who won 3 straight state championships in the early 20's. After graduation, numerous players of the Franklin State Championship team went on to Franklin College where they went undefeated for their "1st 50 games." And the college that ended that winning streak was BULTER.

indygeezer
03-25-2010, 12:19 PM
Or the Wonder Five. Some are saying who? The Wonder Five was a high school basketball team from Franklin, IN (countyseat of Johnson county just south of Indy) who won 3 straight state championships in the early 20's. After graduation, numerous players of the Franklin State Championship team went on to Franklin College where they went undefeated for their "1st 50 games." And the college that ended that winning streak was BULTER.

and the rumor that I was there and carving a blog is patently untrue.

pwee31
03-25-2010, 03:43 PM
I have Syracuse in my bracket, but I'll be pulling for Butler as usual. They have to figure out that zone

Justin Tyme
03-25-2010, 03:58 PM
and the rumor that I was there and carving a blog is patently untrue.


Well, it's better than being accused of meeting Lincoln's train when he arrived to give a speech at the old Claypool Hotel in Indianapolis!

pacers74
03-25-2010, 06:16 PM
10-1 Butler already wow!!!!!!!!!!!

count55
03-25-2010, 08:07 PM
Butler Bulldogs, baby.

I was one for a year, before I decided it was too expensive if I wasn't going to go to class.

My dad's alma mater.

SycamoreKen
03-25-2010, 08:08 PM
Sweet! Go Northern Iowa & Cornell!

PacerDude
03-25-2010, 08:09 PM
THAT'S why they play the games.

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

obnoxiousmodesty
03-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Winner, right there. Wow! Go Butler!

Suaveness
03-25-2010, 08:11 PM
Butler!!!

pwee31
03-25-2010, 08:18 PM
That was awesome. If they make it to the Final Four in Indy that would be awesome!!

I almost went to Butler, but choose IU.... no regrets!, but I still pull for the Bulldogs as a 2nd team!!

Hicks
03-25-2010, 08:20 PM
That was fun to watch with a handful of family. Most of us are New Castle Trojans, and Butler is sort of NC's college team to root for (we have had a handful of our players go there after being stars here).

PacerDude
03-25-2010, 08:28 PM
Isn't Hahn from New Castle ??

And if I'm not wrong, they'll have all but a few players (losing only 1 starter ??) coming back next year.

Hicks
03-25-2010, 08:33 PM
Yes, Hahn is from NC.

Bball
03-25-2010, 08:39 PM
:woot:
:fireworks:

SoupIsGood
03-25-2010, 08:41 PM
woohoo! Campus is gonna be rowdy if the rain lets up. . . .

BPump33
03-25-2010, 08:42 PM
Or the Wonder Five. Some are saying who? The Wonder Five was a high school basketball team from Franklin, IN (countyseat of Johnson county just south of Indy) who won 3 straight state championships in the early 20's. After graduation, numerous players of the Franklin State Championship team went on to Franklin College where they went undefeated for their "1st 50 games." And the college that ended that winning streak was BULTER.

I went to FCHS and Franklin College...we are taught about the wonder five very early on....

Congrats to the Bulldogs!!!

pwee31
03-25-2010, 08:45 PM
That was fun to watch with a handful of family. Most of us are New Castle Trojans, and Butler is sort of NC's college team to root for (we have had a handful of our players go there after being stars here).


I use think Darnell Archey was the greatest shooter in the world after a few displays he put on in high school and at Butler

travmil
03-25-2010, 09:00 PM
I use think Darnell Archey was the greatest shooter in the world after a few displays he put on in high school and at Butler

Archey got beat by a woman in the NCAA's version of the three point shootout his senior year.

Mr_Smith
03-25-2010, 09:02 PM
Butler is puttin' in work!!!

Bball
03-25-2010, 09:05 PM
Butler could've used Archey's FT shooting stroke down the stretch....
If they would've hit their FT's the game would've been out of reach for even a miracle chance at a Syracuse final minute comeback.

indygeezer
03-25-2010, 09:49 PM
I went to FCHS and Franklin College...we are taught about the wonder five very early on....

Congrats to the Bulldogs!!!

Hmmm when did you graduate FCHS?


and where has this been moved to anyway?

BPump33
03-26-2010, 08:51 AM
Hmmm when did you graduate FCHS?

I graduated Franklin Community in 2001.

indygeezer
03-26-2010, 09:19 AM
I graduated Franklin Community in 2001.

Mmmm I think Mrs Geezer was teaching there then. Wait...Franklin COmmunity HS or Franklin Central??

BPump33
03-26-2010, 09:41 AM
Mmmm I think Mrs Geezer was teaching there then. Wait...Franklin COmmunity HS or Franklin Central??

Franklin Community, home of the "Wonder Five."

Usually, when I tell people I went to Franklin they assume I mean Franklin Central which is understandable.

count55
03-27-2010, 05:41 PM
Coming home, Baby.

Tough

As

Nails.

Justin Tyme
03-27-2010, 05:47 PM
AWESOME WIN!!!!

I begin to wonder if they'd win it the way Howard was missing FT's.

I'd love to see a Butler vs Kentucky finals. I love blue n white!

Mr_Smith
03-27-2010, 06:20 PM
Butler is the best basketball team in Indianapolis

Basketball Fan
03-27-2010, 06:42 PM
To answer the other guy who wondered the last time a team was in the Final Four in the hometown it was UCLA when Los Angeles hosted the Final Four in 1972 they won the title that year.

owl
03-27-2010, 08:24 PM
Kentucky toast. Butler could very easily win it all. My wife, a Butler grad, is happy.

PacerDude
03-27-2010, 09:29 PM
This is real life Hoosiers.

IndyProdigy
03-27-2010, 11:39 PM
YEAAAA...Gordon Hayward graduated from my high school a year after I did in 07, from Brownsburg.

I remember going to the open gyms and he hit a growth spurt in the summer when he grew about 9 inches. Crazy!

Basketball Fan
03-27-2010, 11:59 PM
This is real life Hoosiers.


I'm trying to think who I'd want to play Brad Stevens in the movie.


Although the local dentist back home was in "Hoosiers"

pwee31
03-28-2010, 12:53 AM
I missed the games b/c I had to work, but awesome Butler!! Congrats on the Final Four.

Most of me is happy UK lost, the part that isn't, wanted to scout Wall, Cousins, Patterson and Bledsoe more!

Lance George
03-28-2010, 03:53 AM
With the way they've been playing (24-game win streak) and with having home court advantage, I expect Butler to beat either Michigan State or Tennessee and be in the championship game a week from tomorrow. West Virginia, Baylor, or Duke -- Butler can beat any of them.

Forget just being happy to be there, Butler has a very legitimate shot at a national championship.

PacerDude
03-28-2010, 06:03 AM
Most of me is happy UK lost, the part that isn't, wanted to scout Wall, Cousins, Patterson and Bledsoe more!They all seemed to get really frustrated and forego the team concept pretty early in the game. Eh, this can be talked about in another thread if we want to ........ let's not take away from the 'Dogs.

True joy from everyone on the team. Stevens was leading the team thru the Butler fight song on the court after the game. Somehow, I don't see Calipari, Coach K or pretty much any other D-1 coach doing the same. This team is really special. Just imagine if they ............. wow.

BTW - I wish the announcers would get their names right. It's SHELVIN Mack, not Sheldon. And it's Willie VEASLEY, not Beasley.

Day-V
03-28-2010, 12:11 PM
I'm trying to think who I'd want to play Brad Stevens in the movie.

Chris Pine.

pwee31
03-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Did any meet the team last night when they arrived home? I heard it was a pretty big crowd waiting for them?

PR07
03-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Did any meet the team last night when they arrived home? I heard it was a pretty big crowd waiting for them?

Yep. It was a pretty nice turnout.

Basketball Fan
03-28-2010, 02:02 PM
Chris Pine.

Interesting choice

indygeezer
03-28-2010, 02:49 PM
My days of getting a good seat for $10 ended a couple of years ago. I hate to see what ticket prices will be like now.

:p

Speed
03-29-2010, 12:12 PM
~ Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here.~

~ And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen.~

Basketball Fan
03-30-2010, 07:34 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36083365



How Much Will Indianapolis Lose From Butler?
Published: Monday, 29 Mar 2010 | 11:58 AM ET
Text Size
By: Darren Rovell
CNBC Sports Business Reporter

It’s the feel good story of the tournament: The little guys from Butler playing in their hometown of Indianapolis in the Final Four.

Butler Bulldogs
Getty Images
Gordon Hayward #20 of the Butler Bulldogs puts up a shot over Luis Colon #15 of the Kansas State Wildcats during the west regional final of the 2010 NCAA men's basketball tournament.
But Butler being in the tournament means it takes a spot from another team that could travel from farther away, fly in, stay in more hotel rooms and spend more at restaurants.

Let’s start with the original estimate by city officials: $50 million. That’s how much they claim will come in visitor’s spending from the Final Four.

That number is always suspect because officials in their estimates usually don’t displace how much revenue is made during those days during normal times. The number $50 million might be accurate, but it’s only valuable when put into context of how much Indianapolis pulls in over a similar period of time.

Assuming the $50 million number is a gross and not net number, sports economist Brad Humphreys thinks that nearby Butler’s inclusion in the Final Four means a 25 percent dip -– or a $12.5 million gross impact.

“Any net economic impact from the Final Four comes from export tourism,” said Brad Humphreys, who teaches at the University of Alberta. “That’s the money spent from visitors on outside Indianapolis, who would not have otherwise visited the city.”

Victor Matheson, professor of economics at the College of the Holy Cross, who has studied sports business extensively, agrees with Humphreys’ assessment.

“Some will say that Indianapolis residents will come into town more and spend money at bars and restaurants during the game and they wouldn’t have necessarily done that if Butler weren’t in it,” Matheson said.

But Matheson, who suspects the net economic impact to Indianapolis is at most $30 million, says that anyone who takes these numbers seriously always subtract what locals spend in their home towns during special events like the Final Four, reasoning that the $50 or so they spend in a particular bar, they won’t spend at another time. So it all balances out.

The Kansas State fan who would have come into town if Butler hadn’t defeated them, would have spent money at a bar and restaurant that he or she would have never gone to before had the fan not been in town, Matheson says.

Coming into town to see the game won’t have the same appeal that it did a year ago when Michigan State played in the Final Four in Detroit.

“The Butler campus is literally seven miles away from the city,” said Mark Rosentraub, a professor of sport management at the University of Michigan. “East Lansing wasn’t Detroit, so it was a road trip for many of them."

Rosentraub says Butler’s appearance might help boost Indianapolis in other ways. “It could increase applications, which could lead to a better quality of student and, in the long run, that helps out Indianapolis,” he said.

There are some economists who play down Butler’s hometown discount. Sports economist Andrew Zimbalist said Butler’s inclusion won’t have an “appreciable impact.”

Larry DeGaris, an associate professor of marketing at the University of Indianapolis, doesn’t buy that there can be that much of a loss because the Final Four is so corporate.

“Sure there are fans that come here, but this is for corporate America,” DeGaris said. “And whether Butler is playing or not, they’re here. I guarantee you, you can’t find a bag of cocktail shrimp in town.”

Shade
03-31-2010, 08:41 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36083365

It always just comes down to money for some people, doesn't it?

count55
04-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Bulldogs playin' Monday.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a coach do a better job than Stevens.

Hicks
04-03-2010, 08:37 PM
I'm in the spirit of the moment. Temporary logo change for PD!

idioteque
04-03-2010, 09:43 PM
Butler in the title game blows my mind. Stevens is just an excellent, excellent coach.

I like Butler matching up against Duke, that would just be a great, old-school sort of National Championship game. Two teams playing the right way (with the exception of Duke's flopping). Against West Virginia I'm less sure. They're way more athletic and I feel they could either blow Butler out, or just completely collapse and flop leading to a relatively easy Butler win.

I'm admittedly, a huge Butler bandwagon fan right now, but I know I haven't been this excited about a basketball game since the last time the Pacers were in a Game 7.

Mr_Smith
04-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Well...looks like Butler is facing Duke. They have their work cut out for them. They better start practicing now.

SoupIsGood
04-04-2010, 12:18 AM
Campus was nuts! Great stuff. It's cool to see everybody so excited.

indygeezer
04-04-2010, 07:30 AM
Campus was nuts! Great stuff. It's cool to see everybody so excited.

:( wish I coulda been there.


:champions MONDAY NIGHT!!!

Unclebuck
04-04-2010, 08:18 AM
Honestly this is the first college game I have watched all season (actually it has ben several seasons) wow. when did college ball become more physical than the NBA, I loved seeing the handchecking, grabbing on the perimeter and not see any foul calls. This is more a criticism of the NBA than anything.

PacerDude
04-04-2010, 08:35 AM
Well...looks like Butler is facing Duke. They have their work cut out for them. They better start practicing now.Yup. Coach K better come up with something ...............

Speed
04-04-2010, 08:50 AM
This Butler team is maybe the most poised college basketball team I have seen. It's really unbelieveable.

Suaveness
04-04-2010, 10:43 AM
This has been so much fun to watch. I don't see how they can ever beat Duke, really, but at least they made it this far.

PacerDude
04-04-2010, 11:15 AM
I don't see how they can ever beat Duke, really, but at least they made it this far.And the same thing was said about Syracuse, K-State, the Spartans. Hell, lots of people didn't have Butler getting out of the first round. Yet ........... here they are.

On paper - you're right. Butler ain't got a chance. Line the 2 teams up and do the eye-test. Butler comes in 2nd again. Butler is having fun. Doing the same thing they've done all season. Playing the game, playing hard, having fun and winning. Duke has had a great season also, but there's a lot more pressure on them. They're SUPPOSED to win.

Don't forget the pucker-factor in games like this.

Go Dawgs !! :dance:

travmil
04-04-2010, 02:52 PM
when did college ball become more physical than the NBA...

Right about the same time the NBA decided Jordan was a superstar and made rules so that nobody could sneeze in the same zip code as His Airness, so roughly 1988.

indygeezer
04-05-2010, 03:13 PM
I hope the IHSAA is noticing how exciting a run by a small school can be, and how much enthusiasm for the game it generates.

Since86
04-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I hope the IHSAA is noticing how exciting a run by a small school can be, and how much enthusiasm for the game it generates.

Maybe they should notice the effects that recruiting can have, and take away transfer rules too then.

Comparing college basketball to HS basketball cannot be done.

Most HS's are stuck with whoever lives in their district. Period. Colleges have the distinct advantage of getting to pick who is on their team, and who goes to their school.

The difference is gi-freaking-normous.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Maybe they should notice the effects that recruiting can have, and take away transfer rules too then.

Comparing college basketball to HS basketball cannot be done.

Most HS's are stuck with whoever lives in their district. Period. Colleges have the distinct advantage of getting to pick who is on their team, and who goes to their school.

The difference is gi-freaking-normous.

It's not about saying HS and College bball are the same, it's about noticing that Indiana bball fans tend to love rooting for the underdog and watching them win games they're not supposed to win. That's harder to do in a class system because the smallest schools never play the biggest ones at all.

Yet tonight we get to watch Butler face a program like Duke. Not a 1-to-1 comparison, I agree, but in spirit it's certainly an underdog scenario of a magnitude I'm not sure HS ball can match in this state.

Since86
04-05-2010, 03:51 PM
It's not about saying HS and College bball are the same, it's about noticing that Indiana bball fans tend to love rooting for the underdog and watching them win games they're not supposed to win. That's harder to do in a class system because the smallest schools never play the biggest ones at all.

Yet tonight we get to watch Butler face a program like Duke. Not a 1-to-1 comparison, I agree, but in spirit it's certainly an underdog scenario of a magnitude I'm not sure HS ball can match in this state.

You don't need an example to prove a point people like seeing an underdog. That's pretty well established. I mean our entire country's history is littered with "rags to riches" stories. Those feelings go back to Ben Franklin, and aren't unique to Indiana.

Personally, I'm not surprised by Butler. There's no reason in the world that colleges can't play for national championships.

That's the reason why people hate the BCS so much.

Colleges control their own destiny. Butler made a point to put every ounce of effort into getting on to the big stage, and it worked.

Using Butler as a back handed slap at the IHSAA and class systems doesn't help the argument at all.

Butler being in this situation isn't unique. George Mason was there 4(?) years ago. Ball State lost to the eventual champs UNLV by 2 in 1990. UNLV went on to face Duke for the national championship and beat them by 30.

Duke isn't a "big" school. They have all of 2000 more students. Duke wasn't "Duke" before Coach K took over. They were, and are, exactly what Butler is. They took the same route Butler did 30yrs ago, and have sustained those accomplishments since then.

This isn't a run from a small school. It's a run from a school outside of the "power" conferences.

travmil
04-05-2010, 09:15 PM
OMG...I love how all the CBS analysts are saying things like "In order for Butler to compete they need to do blah blah blah". Like they have no chance at all of continuing to do what got them here. No mention at all of what Duke needs to do to break down Butler's defense. You make it all the way to the NCAA title game, taking down a 1, a 2, and a 5 seed from "power" conferences in the process and it's still not enough to be taken seriously by the TV crew...

Legendary
04-05-2010, 09:28 PM
C'mon Butler!

travmil
04-05-2010, 09:39 PM
I'll say it again. 8 minutes into the game and Duke has 11 points. Nobody, and I mean nobody plays their game against Butler. Butler just smothers every team they play on defense, it doesn't matter who it is.

travmil
04-05-2010, 09:45 PM
Well I see they aren't gonna call much on Duke on the defensive end. Just like the other night when contact from Zoubek shredded Desean Butlers knee and got nothing called on him. Hayward got absolutely mugged in the lane there, body contact from not one but two dookies and no whistle.

Kemo
04-05-2010, 09:46 PM
Hayward , surprisingly has been a beast out there.. He seems to have a real nose for the ball..

travmil
04-05-2010, 09:51 PM
You gotta be kidding me... No call at all on that drive and then Singler travelled after securing the rebound and the refs swalowed the whistle again, and THEN call a piece of crap touch foul on Butler a the other end.

Kemo
04-05-2010, 09:51 PM
the no calls on Duke are frustrating.. yet a ticky tack foul gets called on Butler.. There's no favortism here guys *rolls eyes*

Kemo
04-05-2010, 09:53 PM
This is ridiculous ,,

Kemo
04-05-2010, 09:53 PM
WTF?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

NO CALL ?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?

That fouling was obvious as HELL

travmil
04-05-2010, 09:55 PM
OMG singler travelled again. And not just an I might have missed it travel. That was a two jump stops travel.

Kemo
04-05-2010, 09:55 PM
I have a feeling these refs are gonna will Duke to win.. I cannot believe this ***** !!

Someone is either on the take or gambling a'la Donaghey (sp?)

Surely these refs can't be this bad?!?!

Mr_Smith
04-05-2010, 09:57 PM
All calls going Dukes way so far....Butler has to keep fighting.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:03 PM
JUMP BALL??!!? U GOTTA BE ****ING KIDDIN ME?!?!! I think you can forget about Butler getting a fair shake here. They have to beat Duke by 20 to make this even.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 10:09 PM
I'm just glad it's close at half. I was fearing an early blow-out.

Can C'Ville starting hitting those post shots and free throws?

Mr_Smith
04-05-2010, 10:10 PM
Its 5 on 8 out there and Butler is only down 1 at half-time. Good stuff

Bball
04-05-2010, 10:10 PM
I'm just glad it's close at half. I was fearing an early blow-out.



Not me... I knew Duke would keep it close. :devil:

Go Dawgs!

Hicks
04-05-2010, 10:16 PM
Torn ACL, sprained MCL, bone bruises.... jeez, no wonder poor Mr. Butler was in such pain two nights ago. :(

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:16 PM
Well, once again, Butler's defense is bringing it, and is on pace to hold Duke in the 60's, so that's a bright spot.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 10:20 PM
Alright, I love this kid's attitude. Can we snag him in the 2nd round, please?

obnoxiousmodesty
04-05-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm just glad it's close at half. I was fearing an early blow-out.

Can C'Ville starting hitting those post shots and free throws?

He better. I can't have the NC kid making more shots than the kid from C'ville. ;)

Hicks
04-05-2010, 10:22 PM
Let's win the 2nd pick in the draft in the lottery, take Turner, then pick up Hayward and Butler in the 2nd round (using Dallas' pick). Whose with me? [half-serious]

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:22 PM
Torn ACL, sprained MCL, bone bruises.... jeez, no wonder poor Mr. Butler was in such pain two nights ago. :(

Yeah, like I said, contact from Zoubek caused that and he didn't get anything called on him there either.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:30 PM
Man if Zoubek is gonna head out there to pick up Heyward he need to take that to the rack every time.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:35 PM
Butler needs to tighten that defense back up. Duke is starting to get some good looks and second chances. Purdue fell into that trap after hanging with them for a good portion of the game. Duke just finally wore them down and Butler has to find a way to keep that from happening to them.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:36 PM
Oh man that's just a filthy move by Mack...

Hicks
04-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Duke's playing better than Butler by a little bit. Could be all it takes.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Not looking good, it's starting to feel just like that Purdue game...

kester99
04-05-2010, 10:51 PM
They can foull that big dork out if they keep going at him.

indytoad
04-05-2010, 10:51 PM
Not looking good, it's starting to feel just like that Purdue game...

You can tell Duke's players are, individually, much better than Butler's, so it'll likely end up that way. Pure talent usually wins out in the end.

Still, Butler is doing awesome to stay with them step for step as long as they have.

avoidingtheclowns
04-05-2010, 10:54 PM
I have watched 15ish Butler games the last two seasons and I have yet to figure out what purpose Matt Howard serves. He doesn't get to rebounds unless they fall to him alone, he doesn't make but the most wide open of shots ... the only thing he seems good at is picking up ill-timed fouls. Go Matt.

travmil
04-05-2010, 10:54 PM
Zoubek is the Rasheed Wallace of college basketball. He truly believes he's never committed a foul.

Mr_Smith
04-05-2010, 10:54 PM
Zoubeks out w/ 4 fouls....the dawgs better step it up now

Kemo
04-05-2010, 10:56 PM
HOW IN THE HELL is the possession awarded to Duke on that ????

kester99
04-05-2010, 10:57 PM
HOW IN THE HELL is the possession awarded to Duke on that ????

The arrow. Alternate possesions on Jumps in college. Is that what you meant?

avoidingtheclowns
04-05-2010, 10:58 PM
Zoubek is the Rasheed Wallace of college basketball. He truly believes he's never committed a foul.

Well as a Duke player with ACC refs, he's never had one called on him.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:04 PM
Howard back in I'm putting he over under at the 6 minute mark for him to foul out. Anyone?

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:11 PM
That needs to be flagrant.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:13 PM
It looked bad at speed but on the replay it wasn't flagrant.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Man that was a bad miss by GH. So bad you wonder if he hurt his elbow on that hard foul.

avoidingtheclowns
04-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Someone needs to tell Butler the "we're not going to score any field goals" thing only works when you simultaneously prevent the other team from scoring FGs.

indytoad
04-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Hate to say it, but I think that may do it.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:19 PM
Taking a step back, this is still a hell of a game by Butler considering the expectations going in to not just the game, but the entire tournament. I just wish they had a little more to show right about now.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:19 PM
This is the moment of truth for Butler. Down 3 with just over three to go. They need at least two strong defensive stands and points of their own at the same time to swing this thing back their way.

avoidingtheclowns
04-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Hate to say it, but I think that may do it.

No they won't. They're toast [/Shade reverse jinx]

indytoad
04-05-2010, 11:22 PM
No they won't. They're toast [/Shade reverse jinx]

Butler's definitely going to win! [/reverse reverse jinx]

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:25 PM
so close..............

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:25 PM
This is the moment of truth for Butler. Down 3 with just over three to go. They need at least two strong defensive stands and points of their own at the same time to swing this thing back their way.

:whistle:

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:27 PM
That was a great find in traffic by Hayward. I bet Clark had to fight the urge to mention the tree of penetration...

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:28 PM
OMG Butler has the ball down one and can hold for the last shot.

vnzla81
04-05-2010, 11:28 PM
dawn this looks possible

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
WHERE IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY WAS THE DAMN FOUL!!?!?!

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
This is all you can ask for they have a shot at this thing...

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
I mean for God's sake, that 7'1" Ent BACKHANDED HIM IN THE FACE.

GOOD LORD.

Disgusting no call. Absolutely disgusting. That would have been Duke's 10th foul.

Kemo
04-05-2010, 11:30 PM
if this isn't a nailbiter, I dunno what is.. ..lol

they absolutely MUST make this .. I would drive and try and draw a foul

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:31 PM
Run a back screen for Howard to cut to the hoop while the Ent is guarding the inbounder.....

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:32 PM
Well **** me. That would have been perfect had it gone in.

vnzla81
04-05-2010, 11:33 PM
is over people, good job by Butler

Kemo
04-05-2010, 11:34 PM
DAMMIT ... I HATE DUKE!!!!!

I AM P*SSED NOW

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:34 PM
Wow. Evil wins by a hair. You don't come closer to Hoosiers II than that other than letting that sucker bank in.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:34 PM
Imagine if Butler had just hit their foul shots...

indytoad
04-05-2010, 11:34 PM
Oh well, that's the way life works I guess.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:35 PM
My God. It doesn't get closer than that. I have goosebumps. A LOSS is giving me goosebumps. Wow.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:35 PM
Oh well, that's the way life works I guess.

And if you are a Duke fan?

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:36 PM
I, for one, blame that Connersville kid for not making his free throws. ;)

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:38 PM
Well Duke scored 61, makin them the only team to break 60 against Butler in the tournament, and it was just enough.

indytoad
04-05-2010, 11:38 PM
And if you are a Duke fan?

Then life is good.

The kinda sad thing is that Duke is in this position all the time. It's unlikely Butler will ever be in another Final Four, let alone a championship game with the chance to win it.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:40 PM
This ending was so amazing, I have goosebumps and it was a loss. I'm stunned.

idioteque
04-05-2010, 11:40 PM
Duke sure knows how to break hearts, they've certainly broken mine before.

Hayward had two pretty legit chances to win the game, just a couple of the many good looks Butler had that they did their best to execute but they just didn't rattle in.

I grimaced and turned away after the last shot didn't go in, and then right afterwards, I glanced back at the screen and had a split second of hope because that assistant coach celebrating looked like Brad Stevens.

Probably one of the best five basketball games I have ever watched, but because my team lost, I don't think I'll able to ever watch it again, at least not for many years.

Suaveness
04-05-2010, 11:43 PM
Damn it all. I hate to be bitter, but Duke got away with a ton of calls this game. Hats off to Butler for a HELL of a game. That was impressive play, impressive defense. So close, it would have been total pandemonium here. I really hope Stevens stays and Hayward as well.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm not going to pretend I'm heavily invested in the Dawgs like I am the Colts and used to be for the Pacers, but losing like this still sucks.

Hicks
04-05-2010, 11:46 PM
My heart aches over what could have been.

I don't think I've felt like this since Reggie missed that three pointer in game 4 in the 2000 Finals.

idioteque
04-05-2010, 11:47 PM
Butler doesn't have a football program, but there should be some way to get that basketball program into the Big 10!

Bball
04-05-2010, 11:50 PM
The script didn't end like it was supposed to....

idioteque
04-05-2010, 11:51 PM
My heart aches over what could have been.

I don't think I've felt like this since Reggie missed that three pointer in game 4 in the 2000 Finals.

Same here. I'm admittedly not a huge Butler fan overall, but this game was our 21st century chance at the Milan game. It can't ever happen again in high school, so it has to happen in college if it is ever going to happen again.

I don't have any huge connection to any of the Indiana colleges since I went to school out of state, and I'd root hard for Butler, Indiana, Purdue, IUPUI, Valparaiso, or whoever in the tournament.

Hard loss to swallow, but this really reminded me why I love watching basketball. The Pacers sure as heck haven't been able to do that in awhile.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:51 PM
Butler does have a football program. It's not div 1 obviously but they do have one.

travmil
04-05-2010, 11:54 PM
I can't stand to see a dirty player like Zoubek putting on a champions hat and smiling like that. I has to change it.

idioteque
04-05-2010, 11:56 PM
I can't stand to see a dirty player like Zoubek putting on a champions hat and smiling like that. I has to change it.

If it makes you feel any better, the next professional game he'll be playing will probably be in some provincial capitol in Finland.

vnzla81
04-05-2010, 11:57 PM
really good game, I lost 20 bucks because I said that Duke was going to win by more than 8pts:censored:. But at the end of the game I was rooting for the guys to win I think I jinxed :blush:

Suaveness
04-06-2010, 12:06 AM
I'm depressed

Mr_Smith
04-06-2010, 12:12 AM
Great game and great effort by Butler. It was 5 on 8 from the beginning of the game to the end. Very inconsistent game by the refs. Thats the most success the stars from Duke will ever have because they won't be ****** in the NBA. (I don't need to name the Duke players now in the NBA).

SoupIsGood
04-06-2010, 12:19 AM
Butler doesn't have a football program, but there should be some way to get that basketball program into the Big 10!


Actually we do! Not nearly as good as the basketball team, though. :o

SoupIsGood
04-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Great game! To come within 1 point w/ 13 seconds left of the bball team winning it all during my senior year here. . . . ah, it was a great run. I hope Hayward stays and we can take another shot at it next year.

graphic-er
04-06-2010, 12:38 AM
I can't stand to see a dirty player like Zoubek putting on a champions hat and smiling like that. I has to change it.

I feel the same way the refs gave the game away on that out of bounds off Zoubek's leg. Clearly was a foul as he threw Howard to the ground. Should have been one and one.

Also the offensive foul called on Hayward when scheyer wasn't set and was in the restricted area. Should have been a blocking foul. Clark called them both.

But with that said Butler had plenty of chances to run it up on Duke, just couldn't execute as well. Next year I have a feeling that Howard won't be missing 3 buckets down in the low post to start the game, Hayward's gonna turn it on more offensively and dunk the ball instead of losing it on the rim. Next year it wont' come down to inches on the backboard. Stevens said he htought 2010/11 would be the year they went for a title, this team isn't done peaking.

Imagine the freshman class Stevens is going to be able to bring in next season. This team only needs one more scorer off the bench and another big guy.

Lance George
04-06-2010, 01:18 AM
If that last shot would've went in it would've been quite possibly the greatest moment in U.S. sports history. Alas, it was not to be. Still, when people think of the 2010 NCAA Tournament years from now I sincerely believe it will always be known as Butler's tournament, even before the champions Duke.

Lord Helmet
04-06-2010, 07:32 AM
I'm depressed
I know, right?

Seriously, it didn't hurt too bad at first, but now I'm doing flashbacks in my head and it hurts to replay the final shots Butler had.

Like travmil said, I'm not even as emotionally invested in Butler like I am with the Colts and Pacers, but it sure does feel like it at times.

I guess I just really needed this and it came up short.

:(

Hicks
04-06-2010, 09:19 AM
So is anyone else replaying that last shot in their head and trying to make the ball go in?

count55
04-06-2010, 10:00 AM
This is why those shots rimmed out

http://www.mediaite.com/online/storybook-stunner-indianapolis-star-calls-butler-champ-a-tad-early/

SoupIsGood
04-06-2010, 10:01 AM
So is anyone else replaying that last shot in their head and trying to make the ball go in?

Pretty much. That would've been HUGE for this school. . . :o

IMO Duke consistently executed better in the second half, though. Scrappiness kept us in it, but the more poised team won.

I refuse to talk about the refs. I watched the game at Hinkle, and apparently my classmates think that EVERY call that goes against Butler is a bad call. :hmm: I was okay with the reffing, although I will admit that the touch fouls seemed to favor Duke.

Next year, next year. . . due to our respective stints in the hospital, my girlfriend and I will both be fifth-year seniors, meaning we'll still get to cheer as students, I guess. :)

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Great game and great effort by Butler. It was 5 on 8 from the beginning of the game to the end. Very inconsistent game by the refs. Thats the most success the stars from Duke will ever have because they won't be ****** in the NBA. (I don't need to name the Duke players now in the NBA).

As many active NBA players as Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, and Michigan have, COMBINED:

Battier
Boozer
Brand
Deng
Duhon
Dunleavy
Dahntay Jones
maggette
McRoberts
Randolph
Redick
Shelden Williams

I really wanted Butler to win and was badly disappointed. I was happy that the officials allowed so much contact in both directions, though. They didn't control the game. The one call that angered me was the charge on Hayward late. The guy sccoted up under him too late. But those calls are tough...

If only Butler had converted one more of the layups or open three they missed...

obnoxiousmodesty
04-06-2010, 10:32 AM
I hear you guys about replaying those shots in your head. When Hayward took that fade away runner from the baseline, my mind leaped ahead and saw it go in. I just wanted it to be that badly.

A night's sleep later, that was one hell of a game. And I agree that this will be remembered as Butler's tournament long after people forget Duke won the championship.

DaveP63
04-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Pretty sure that Duke doesn't want to see Butler, EVER AGAIN...That was about all they wanted.

Unclebuck
04-06-2010, 11:26 AM
That was a big mistake to miss the second free throw on purpose with a 2 point lead. Duke needed that point to at least force OT if Butler's halfcourt shot goes in. If Duke had a 1 point lead, then yes miss the second free throw to use up some time, but not with a two point lead. Huge mistake there

ChicagoJ
04-06-2010, 11:37 AM
Butler doesn't have a football program, but there should be some way to get that basketball program into the Big 10!

When did Butler drop their football program? A teammate/ good friend of mine played football and "ran" track (shot/ discuss) from them back in the late 80's/ early 90's. I wasn't aware they dropped football.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2010, 11:41 AM
So is anyone else replaying that last shot in their head and trying to make the ball go in?

Nah... I'm still focused on the runner along the baseline. I just wish they could have gotten into their offense a little bit earlier. When you're down by a point, I don't agree with milking the clock. You need to score and then rely on your defense (and Butler's defense was pretty damn good) instead.

Both misses were "long". He got his legs into them. Many times those misses are "short".

Such a great effort, and disappointing outcome.

Now, if all of the good Indiana-based players would transfer to Bloomington where they belong, I'd feel even better about it...

:devil:

Trader Joe
04-06-2010, 11:42 AM
This is why those shots rimmed out

http://www.mediaite.com/online/storybook-stunner-indianapolis-star-calls-butler-champ-a-tad-early/

The IndyStar has to be one of the worst run local papers in America.

Trader Joe
04-06-2010, 11:43 AM
The "charge" on Hayward was a beyond terrible call.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2010, 12:03 PM
The IndyStar has to be one of the worst run local papers in America.

Isn't it still owned by Gannett? I think my wife's 401k statements are from Garnett, Inc. and not the old INI/ CNI. It hasn't been a "local" paper since the late 1990s.

SoupIsGood
04-06-2010, 12:07 PM
The IndyStar is trash. It'd be nice if our local newspaper were actually local, and not some poop put out by the Gannet overlords.

travmil
04-06-2010, 12:15 PM
The IndyStar is trash. It'd be nice if our local newspaper were actually local, and not some poop put out by the Gannet overlords.

Nuvo is your friend. I know they focus on events and entertainment and are extremely liberal in their views, but if they would add a dedicated sports section, I'd pay for that thing. They do run sports stories when they are compelling (like Butler's tourney run), just not enough. I'd love for them to have comprehensive coverage of local sports from high school to the pros.

SoupIsGood
04-06-2010, 12:20 PM
I dunno. I've tried Nuvo before but, like you said, so much of it is events/entertainment that I get bored. Jim Poyser is a great guy though, I think I'll snag a copy today and see what they're up to.

indygeezer
04-06-2010, 01:36 PM
5 missed freethrows. If 2 of those 5 had gone down, or better yet, 3...........

Hicks
04-06-2010, 03:00 PM
Someone on twitter told me that last shot at half court would not have counted because it was allegedly after the buzzer sounded. Anyone know if he's right or wrong?

graphic-er
04-06-2010, 03:15 PM
Someone on twitter told me that last shot at half court would not have counted because it was allegedly after the buzzer sounded. Anyone know if he's right or wrong?

Wrong, there is a photo on SI.com that shows the ball out of his hands at 0.0 and before a the light comes on.

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Someone on twitter told me that last shot at half court would not have counted because it was allegedly after the buzzer sounded. Anyone know if he's right or wrong?

it is clearly out of his hands at the 0.3 second mark, if you watch frame-by-frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDmW988_5Jg

the youtube link will probably be deleted at some point for copyright reasons

count55
04-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Someone on twitter told me that last shot at half court would not have counted because it was allegedly after the buzzer sounded. Anyone know if he's right or wrong?

It's very close. It looks and sounds like he gets it off in time, but the replay I watched (several times) was on a computer without great resolution. It would have certainly been reviewed, but I haven't seen an angle where you can see the shot and the light on the backboard.

Unless he's seen something different from what's being shown on the internet, it's inconclusive.

count55
04-06-2010, 03:23 PM
it is clearly out of his hands at the 0.3 second mark, if you watch frame-by-frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDmW988_5Jg

the youtube link will probably be deleted at some point for copyright reasons

I'm not sure how to watch it frame by frame. I think he got it off in time, but it didn't go in, so it's moot.

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 03:25 PM
this video is a little higher quality, but you have to watch a stupid commercial:

http://ballhype.com/video/last-13-6-seconds-of-championship-game-butler-vs-duke/

my analysis:
0.4 seconds: the ball is still in his hand
0.3 second: it is on his fingertips
0.2 seconds: it is very clearly out of his hands, by several feet

to see frame-by frame I just kept double-clicking and tried several times.

Last night on TV they showed a replay where you could see the backboard light and it was clearly a shot that would have counted.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2010, 05:15 PM
If they were reviewing a made FG, they could superimpose the clock into the corner of the screen, I believe. (Just as they did to verify the game clock on Duke's last timeout.) They don't need to solely rely on the lights on the backboard, although they certainly can help.

Hicks
04-06-2010, 05:26 PM
I didn't get Kennedy-obsessed with the film before moving on, but I think the Twitter guy may be onto something. I think it's still in his hand for about 0.1 of a second.

Justin Tyme
04-06-2010, 05:39 PM
That was a big mistake to miss the second free throw on purpose with a 2 point lead. Duke needed that point to at least force OT if Butler's halfcourt shot goes in. If Duke had a 1 point lead, then yes miss the second free throw to use up some time, but not with a two point lead. Huge mistake there


You are absolutely right. I couldn't believe the Duke player missed that shot on purpose. Terrible decision that could have cost Duke the championship.

I truly enjoyed watching Butler play in the tournament, and it reminded me why years ago I enjoyed college BB more than the NBA game. I watched every Butler game televised in the tournament, and congrats to them for the outstanding season they had!

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 05:45 PM
I didn't get Kennedy-obsessed with the film before moving on, but I think the Twitter guy may be onto something. I think it's still in his hand for about 0.1 of a second.

When I stop at the exact frame where the clock says 0.2 seconds, at the 1:43 mark in the tape I linked, the ball is at least 4 feet out of his hand. The clock is in the bar at the bottom of the screen, and the ball is clearly visable (from that perspective) above the heads of two people in the stands sitting next to one another, both wearing orange, straight above the "LL" in "Butler Bulldogs".

Oddly enough in the same video, later they show a replay with the clock at the left-hand side of the screen. This is at the 2:44 mark. In this version, the ball is still on his fingertips at 0.1 seconds. The very next frame the clock hits 0.0 and the ball is 4 feet out of his hands- the ball is clearly visable (from that perspective) but it is not above the heads of two people in the stands sitting next to one another, both wearing orange- It is near the person two seats to their right (another orange-clad patron, with a guy in blue in-between), straight above the "ER" in "Butler bulldogs". .

There is clearly a difference in the clock in the two versions. Which is official? I don't know. The horn is official, but freeze-framing audio is a bit above my level of expertise. Still another replay at the 2:49 mark shows the light going off, and it looks like the ball is well out of his hand when the light goes off, but high res video is needed to know for sure.

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 05:58 PM
this picture shows the clock dilemma I cited. The two clocks have different readings!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/images/04/06/gordon-hayward.jpg

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 06:06 PM
Note also on the replay the bone-jarring and perfectly legal pick that Howard (#54) set to free Hayward to get an "open" look on the half-courter.

Slick Pinkham
04-06-2010, 06:10 PM
sorry, one more still photo- ball is out of his hands and the "fast clock" says 0.0 but clearly the backboard light is NOT LIT (a red light all the way around the backboard).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PmvsWE1k-7w/S7uJwolxq4I/AAAAAAAAA6s/Y1PZAe1P4SY/s400/blog_finalshot.jpg

woulda counted...

Hicks
04-06-2010, 06:49 PM
Note also on the replay the bone-jarring and perfectly legal pick that Howard (#54) set to free Hayward to get an "open" look on the half-courter.

Oh, yeah. I noticed that last night immediately. Loved that bone-crusher by him.

Bball
04-06-2010, 10:50 PM
Well, in light of the clock discrepancy I say they give Butler the ball out of bounds on the sideline with 3.6 secs left and let them have another shot. It's only fair...

:devil:

Watching on TV I don't think there's any question that bucket would've counted and I think the refs look like they were ready to count it (none were waving their arms to wave it off as the would've been the moment he released it if they felt it was late).

My experience is that on a buzzer beater shot the ref(s) is already waving it off even before it goes in the basket (or not) if he thinks it left the player's hand late. They don't wait to see if it went in or not. If you think about it, that wouldn't be right (to wait and see if the shot goes in before deciding whether it was late or not). When it's a buzzer beater layup it's all fairly simultaneous... but on a half court heave there's more time for the ref to be seen waving it off even before the ball reaches the rim.

gummy
04-07-2010, 04:53 PM
I think I am finally recovered now. When it comes to Indiana college basketball I bleed gold and black, so I didn't expect to feel as badly as I did when that shot didn't go in.

The Colts, Fever, and Butler all get to the title game and lose...and let's not even talk about the Pacers. It's been a rough year for Indy sports.

avoidingtheclowns
04-07-2010, 05:05 PM
ESPN's Sports Science (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/10413/video-sport-science-on-butlers-last-shot) looks at how close Gordon's shot was.

<object width="384" height="216" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="ESPN_VIDEO" data="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all"><param name="movie" value="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="opaque"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><param name="allowNetworking" value="all"/><param name="flashVars" value="id=5063621"/></object>

indygeezer
04-08-2010, 06:11 AM
I still feel like skunk crap.

Suaveness
04-08-2010, 07:10 PM
Good news:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5068230

gummy
04-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Wow. 12 years. He seems like a great coach but that's a very hefty extension. I wonder how much of it is guaranteed money.

Ransom
04-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Well, college coaching contracts tend to be essentially worthless long term. Coaches can and do leave whenever they want. Though a funny thing to think about: at the end of Stevens contract, he'll only be 45.

Suaveness
04-09-2010, 08:50 PM
It's possible they gave more years in order to give less money per year.

imawhat
04-10-2010, 01:47 AM
Still wishing that shot had gone in. What a game!

Lord Helmet
04-11-2010, 06:52 AM
It still kills me.

Suaveness
04-14-2010, 03:43 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100414/SPORTS0605/100414031/Butler-s-Hayward-to-enter-NBA-draft

Hayward is entering the draft.

Slick Pinkham
04-15-2010, 10:02 AM
Butler Hoops Team Under Investigation - AP

INDIANAPOLIS--Butler's run in the NCAA Men's Basketball National Championship Game may be tarnished after reports surfaced today that all 13 players on the roster are being given good educations in an effort to help them find good jobs after they leave the school. "It's important to remember that right now these are only allegations -- allegations that we are looking into," said NCAA president James Isch. "But, obviously, if true, this would be very disappointing. The NCAA has certain expectations and standards. It's not fair for players at one school to be given good educations while athletes at other member schools receive basic, remedial instruction that is worth essentially nothing."

According to documents seized from the school's registrar's office, Butler players have received an education worth $38,616 per year totaling more than $150,000 over a four-year career.

Compare that to player at a school like Kentucky , where tuition is set at $4,051 -- but with an actual value far below that. “We don't want to say too much until these reports are confirmed," said Kentucky head basketball coach John Calipari. "But we're talking about almost $140,000 difference in education per player -- and that's even if my players stayed four years or graduated, which many of them do not. Then these Butler players are reportedly stepping into good jobs after graduation while my kids, if they don't make the NBA, have absolutely no job prospects or life skills. It's far from a balanced playing field. They are buying the best players by giving them a high-priced education."

In addition to the allegations that they were given an expensive education, many Butler players have been spotted around campus holding books, studying and engaging in interesting conversations. Others have been seen with people who are known to not be tutors.

Butler point guard and Kentucky native Ronald Nored, who is reportedly a secondary education major, denied allegations that the Bulldog program is cheating. "The discourse on this matter is fatuous and inane," he said, implicating the program further.

MagicRat
04-15-2010, 04:03 PM
There was a fun ad in this morning's Star with a picture of Boomer, Blue and Rowdy and the headline of "We may be cats, horses and bears, but for a month we were all Dawgs" and "Congratulations Butler on a great season" below it, along with the Pacers, Colts and Indians logos.

If I get a chance I'll post a scan tonight......

MagicRat
04-16-2010, 12:17 AM
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/alldawgs.jpg

Natston
04-16-2010, 04:42 AM
Thanks