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View Full Version : Just like Pacers, Murphy going nowhere



Willbo
02-18-2010, 06:24 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64824/20100218/murphy_likely_staying_in_indiana/

The Pacers have looked into trading forward Troy Murphy, but they aren't expected to pull the trigger on a move prior to Thursday afternoon's deadline.

League sources told Yahoo! Sports of the development.

vnzla81
02-18-2010, 06:33 AM
:vaderno:

Merz
02-18-2010, 06:40 AM
Sometimes I wonder if I could ever be more apathetic about this Pacers team...

I guess I am still posting though.

ughhh...

jeffg-body
02-18-2010, 06:42 AM
This is pretty disappointing, I was hoping we could have at least gotten some salary dump and a first rounder from someone.

croxia
02-18-2010, 07:11 AM
I'm very disappointed too, but I hope pacers to try do something to make a different atmosphere.

sportfireman
02-18-2010, 08:37 AM
I posted this in anotheer thread but it fits better here......

I hope nothing happens if it involves us giving up our young talent..........keep our expiring until we can trade them by themselves without losing young pieces...we really control the trade then did you see the talent the expiring were getting......? That can be us next season, firmly in the drivers seat. :)The expiring will probably be moved this summer.......so it'll be ok.


oh p.s. I had a dream last night I was talking to Larry I told him to fire Jim and let Lester finish the year out. He just looked at me then my alarm went off.:eek:

Anthem
02-18-2010, 08:54 AM
Sometimes I wonder if I could ever be more apathetic about this Pacers team...

I guess I am still posting though.

ughhh...
I'm struggling to find a reason to watch another game this year.

ksuttonjr76
02-18-2010, 08:58 AM
I'm struggling to find a reason to watch another game this year.

To play couch coach?

Justin Tyme
02-18-2010, 09:01 AM
I'm struggling to find a reason to watch another game this year.


You aren't alone, many of us are struggling with the same feeling. 18-35 just ain't cutt'n it when doing nothing about getting better. Oh wait, Bird asked for our patience.

McKeyFan
02-18-2010, 09:02 AM
I'm struggling to find a reason to watch another game this year.

The development of AJ Price [/Green]

esabyrn333
02-18-2010, 09:08 AM
I think we did the right thing next year we have 4 large expiring contracts.

That is going to be very attractive to some teams

Why just dump salary this year when we can really get something a value next year

Patcience is a virtue. We can't afford to make mistakes right now.

bellisimo
02-18-2010, 09:11 AM
its not being a fair weather fan - doubt anyone of us are considering we are still active in these boards and discuss them - but seriously...how can anyone really continue to watch the Pacers run around in circles when you know there is nothing really to watch?
this is total disappointment - there is like no hope in sight till the end of the season...and then the only hope is that the ball bounces our way in the lotto - otherwise i'm really not sure we would see much action with regards to trades these days...

Unclebuck
02-18-2010, 09:12 AM
Yeah next year right now is when Murphy's value will go through the roof. Reading this morning the Bucks are reluctant to take on Murphy because he is scheduled to make $12M next season, well next year at this time that won't be an issue, he'll be an expiring.

The future of the pacers franchise will be determined by two things - what draft picks they get this year and next and how well they parlay Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy, and Foster's expiring contracts into a winning team.

Pacerized
02-18-2010, 09:29 AM
I'm happy to see that a lot of fans are o.k. with the team not trading Murphy at this time. I hate having Murphy on the team but I know it's for the best to hold onto him until this summer or possibly next years trade deadline. I still think the pending CBA will play in our favor and a lot of owners will go for the fire sale to lower payroll if they don't think they stand a chance to contend for a title. I hope Tyler comes back soon and JOB is forced to go with a complete youth movement for the rest of the season. Heaven forbid but that could even move us up in the lottery.

BillS
02-18-2010, 09:38 AM
Let me see - we want to lose so we can get a good draft pick but we aren't going to the games to support the strategy because they are losing.

We want the worst possible team on the floor but we want Murphy traded so we can be better.

We want to trade Murphy for a salary dump but that's too much to ask so Bird should stop being stubborn and trade for a longer contract so we can cuss him out or not getting the salary dump.

O - K. Just as long as the voices don't get loud enough I can hear them from here...

QuickRelease
02-18-2010, 09:41 AM
Let me see - we want to lose so we can get a good draft pick but we aren't going to the games to support the strategy because they are losing.

We want the worst possible team on the floor but we want Murphy traded so we can be better.

We want to trade Murphy for a salary dump but that's too much to ask so Bird should stop being stubborn and trade for a longer contract so we can cuss him out or not getting the salary dump.

O - K. Just as long as the voices don't get loud enough I can hear them from here...

http://rlv.zcache.com/you_can_have_your_cake_and_eat_it_to_tshirt-p235489349234217285trlf_400.jpg

jhondog28
02-18-2010, 09:53 AM
Here is my 2 cents. I would not put it past the FO to wait until next year and move the contracts, but since it is a contract year just watch Murph and Dun put up monster numbers and Bird resigns them for more than they are worth. Then you would have a mutiny on this board.

pacergod2
02-18-2010, 09:56 AM
I agree Bill. It is the same conundrum we faced after the brawl. Ten people with ten different opinions and 3/4 of them have no basis for their opinion or are hypocritical in their response. But that is ok.

We need to trade one of our expiring contracts this summer or pray that Ford opts out (haha). But its important for the Pacers leverage in negotiations. I think that is why we haven't seen any trades is that we haven't had the leverage to deal what talent we do have. Teams know we aren't in a bargaining position and can low ball us, even for our lesser talent. We are the team that other teams use as leverage in making other trades. That is what we have to be patient about. Larry and David's hands are so tied that they have tried and can't do anything beneficial for the franchise. They need leverage to do anything on the trade market. At least this gives us some continuity... ok I am reaching on that one.

What reasons do we have to continue to go to games... we are not fair weather fans. That's what. Even if we hate our coach and we get to watch our young developmental talent sit on the bench. We are still Pacers fans and when this team needs us the most, which is right now, we need to be there. I was thinking about buying season tickets next year, even though I live in Richmond, VA.

focused444
02-18-2010, 10:21 AM
Let me see - we want to lose so we can get a good draft pick but we aren't going to the games to support the strategy because they are losing.

We want the worst possible team on the floor but we want Murphy traded so we can be better.

We want to trade Murphy for a salary dump but that's too much to ask so Bird should stop being stubborn and trade for a longer contract so we can cuss him out or not getting the salary dump.

O - K. Just as long as the voices don't get loud enough I can hear them from here...

I get what you're saying, but I think its how they are losing. I think people are mostly turned off because off JOB's tactics. I think people want Murphy gone so they can lose while developing the guys that will actually be here once the 3 yr plan arrives. I am too far away to attend games, but I would rather see the young "core" guys struggle now, and maybe even put together some solid performances here and there. Then have to watch this poor execution of an already suspect offensive plan. They could reduce Murphs minutes and essentially do the same thing.

If I were close enough I would still go to every game I could. The less people there the louder my yelling would seem to the players/coaches.

I would yell things at JOB like "play the kids Jim, play the kids" 444 times a game.

DaveP63
02-18-2010, 10:38 AM
I'm struggling to find a reason to watch another game this year.


The joy of Roy. That's it unless somebody gets hurt and they play AJ. I bet he doesn't get 45 minutes the rest of the year.

Justin Tyme
02-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Yeah next year right now is when Murphy's value will go through the roof. Reading this morning the Bucks are reluctant to take on Murphy because he is scheduled to make $12M next season, well next year at this time that won't be an issue, he'll be an expiring.

The future of the pacers franchise will be determined by two things - what draft picks they get this year and next and how well they parlay Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy, and Foster's expiring contracts into a winning team.



AND #3, what mistakes Bird makes with both.

pwee31
02-18-2010, 11:13 AM
My only notion is you try to get talent, when you can get it. IF and that's a big if, Bird was offered a young talent player that could help the team, and also an expiring to less the salary cap blow, you would have to take that.

The frustrating part about the 3 year plan, is that there doesn't seem to be a plan at all. The team hasn't tried to develop the young guys, with salary cap issues, the team hasn't gotten better, and the 3rd year is really just crossing your fingers, b/c there's no plan at all.

There's no guarantee we can get a team to trade us talent for our expiring guys when that time comes, there's no guarantee a talented guy would want to be traded to the Pacers, and there's no guarantee any free agents will want to sign with the Pacers.

We are guaranteed to have expirings, or cap space, but what's the point of that if you can't do anything with them?

I think our best bet is to hope for our draft pick to be a great player, and hope the team gets off to a good start next year so we're in playoff contention, and at least appear to be a somewhat attractive destination

Jonathan
02-18-2010, 11:23 AM
Not like if the Pacers freed up (Murphy & Ford's contracts combined) they would be able to sign Lebron or D Wade. I don't even think we could sign Joe Johnson. I agree with UB and feel that this years draft is the key to this franchise future. It is going to be very interesting to see how we finish out this season. I have no problem going 6-24 the next 30 games. I don't think this years draft is just John Wall or bust the PF looks solid depending on who goes out or not.

Justin Tyme
02-18-2010, 11:29 AM
All I'm looking for NOW, is a 4th pick in the lottery. I would have liked to have seen the trading of one of Murphy, Ford , Dunleavy, or Foster for an expiring to help the LT in 2011. Since Murpy was the most tradeable, it was him. It's not going to happen for whatever reasons. What I don't need to hear is another canned spiel from the FO about how much they tried, but they were unsuccessful in making a trade for whatever reasons.

Unclebuck
02-18-2010, 11:56 AM
I get what you're saying, but I think its how they are losing. I think people are mostly turned off because off JOB's tactics. I think people want Murphy gone so they can lose while developing the guys that will actually be here once the 3 yr plan arrives. I am too far away to attend games, but I would rather see the young "core" guys struggle now, and maybe even put together some solid performances here and there. Then have to watch this poor execution of an already suspect offensive plan. They could reduce Murphs minutes and essentially do the same thing.

If I were close enough I would still go to every game I could. The less people there the louder my yelling would seem to the players/coaches.

I would yell things at JOB like "play the kids Jim, play the kids" 444 times a game.

OK, assume Murphy is out of the picture. Exactly who would be playing that we expect or maybe even hope would be here in three years. Solo - No, Josh - Oh please. Who else would be playing. Tyler cannot play or he would be playing right now regardless of Murph. I suppose Granger could get all of his minutes at the 4 and that will open up some more time for Rush, but he's already getting big minutes

Roy, Rush, Tyler, Price and Granger are the only players who have a chance of being here in three years. Roy and Rush are playing about as many minutes as they can handle. Tyler is out, Danny is playing max minutes. OK, so we are down to AJ, but he is a point guard and Murph doesn't impact Price's minutes

avoidingtheclowns
02-18-2010, 12:01 PM
OK, assume Murphy is out of the picture. Exactly who would be playing that we expect or maybe even hope would be here in three years. Solo - No, Josh - Oh please. Who else would be playing. Tyler cannot play or he would be playing right now regardless of Murph. I suppose Granger could get all of his minutes at the 4 and that will open up some time for Rush,.

Roy, Rush, Tyler, Price and Granger are the only players who have a chance of being here in three years.

I think he may have meant the new young piece we'd bring in for Murphy like the rumored Hickson, Powe, Warrick, 'Sova, Greene or Thompson not necessarily McBeard.

CableKC
02-18-2010, 12:01 PM
All I'm looking for NOW, is a 4th pick in the lottery. I would have liked to have seen the trading of one of Murphy, Ford , Dunleavy, or Foster for an expiring to help the LT in 2011. Since Murpy was the most tradeable, it was him. It's not going to happen for whatever reasons. What I don't need to hear is another canned spiel from the FO about how much they tried, but they were unsuccessful in making a trade for whatever reasons.
You'll hear that in another 3 hours. If you can't wait....just go back in the archives and pull out the same standard press conference after the Trade deadline over the last couple of years. :buddies:

Sookie
02-18-2010, 12:03 PM
OK, assume Murphy is out of the picture. Exactly who would be playing that we expect or maybe even hope would be here in three years. Solo - No, Josh - Oh please. Who else would be playing. Tyler cannot play or he would be playing right now regardless of Murph. I suppose Granger could get all of his minutes at the 4 and that will open up some more time for Rush, but he's already getting big minutes

Roy, Rush, Tyler, Price and Granger are the only players who have a chance of being here in three years. Roy and Rush are playing about as many minutes as they can handle. Tyler is out, Danny is playing max minutes. OK, so we are down to AJ, but he is a point guard and Murph doesn't impact Price's minutes

How can you say "josh oh please"

We haven't seen Josh enough to know either way.

Most of the board didn't think Price would make the team, and if he did that he wouldn't get time.

Well now that he's got his chance, half the board wants him starting, and I'd venture to say there isn't a member here who thinks he should go back to the bench.

Price got a chance.

Well McBob hasn't had one. So give him one. What's the worse that can happen...we lose...oh wait..

WetBob
02-18-2010, 12:08 PM
I find it hilarious that the same person who loves everything Foster, is not even willing to consider McRoberts as a potential asset.

CableKC
02-18-2010, 12:13 PM
OK, assume Murphy is out of the picture. Exactly who would be playing that we expect or maybe even hope would be here in three years. Solo - No, Josh - Oh please. Who else would be playing. Tyler cannot play or he would be playing right now regardless of Murph. I suppose Granger could get all of his minutes at the 4 and that will open up some more time for Rush, but he's already getting big minutes

Roy, Rush, Tyler, Price and Granger are the only players who have a chance of being here in three years. Roy and Rush are playing about as many minutes as they can handle. Tyler is out, Danny is playing max minutes. OK, so we are down to AJ, but he is a point guard and Murph doesn't impact Price's minutes
Because Hansbrough is out of the picture, I agree....I don't see the impact of Murphy gone affecting any of our future core.

With Murphy gone....I just see what it will likely force JO'B to do....play our True Big Men like Solo and ( maybe even ) McRoberts more in the Frontcourt rotation. Although Murphy technically counts as a one of the "Big Men" in our rotation, it's more that I do not like that he's used extensively at the Center spot instead of being paired more with more Athletic Big Men like Solo or McRoberts.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing that it would also mean that we'd see a PF/C rotation of Hibbert/Granger/Solo/McRoberts....but I can tell you that despite the concern that I would have at playing Granger heavy minutes at the PF spot ( which he's pretty much doing it already now )....I'd prefer that PF/C rotation over the one that we currently have ( specifically with Murphy manning the Center spot ).

focused444
02-18-2010, 12:14 PM
OK, assume Murphy is out of the picture. Exactly who would be playing that we expect or maybe even hope would be here in three years. Solo - No, Josh - Oh please. Who else would be playing. Tyler cannot play or he would be playing right now regardless of Murph. I suppose Granger could get all of his minutes at the 4 and that will open up some more time for Rush, but he's already getting big minutes

Roy, Rush, Tyler, Price and Granger are the only players who have a chance of being here in three years. Roy and Rush are playing about as many minutes as they can handle. Tyler is out, Danny is playing max minutes. OK, so we are down to AJ, but he is a point guard and Murph doesn't impact Price's minutes

Excellent points here he doesn't take mins from aj or rush. Tylers injury is the big killer. I never thought a Murph trade this year was do or die. A reduction in minutes would be suitable depending on Tyler. People began to envision JJ Hickson filling that role for the time being.

When I say 3yr plan I didn't mean 3yrs from now. I thought the 3yr plan begins next trade deadline/summer not 3 years from now. So you gotta include D jones being here for that, right? That being said D jones is not effected by Murphs playing time either. Murph has become the scape goat of some sorts. Is it fair, probably not. The way you put it though, I guess I had been underestimating the absence of Tyler. A healthy Tyler makes less minutes for Murph possible.

Mr_Smith
02-18-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm disappointed that nothing happened. Just face it, the pacers need to do what the hawks did. Build year by year through the draft and take a couple of steps back in order to move forward. Rebuilding and being a playoff team will never coexist with each other.

able
02-18-2010, 12:32 PM
No trade made means very simply LB is screwing up once again, no two ways about it, plenty of offers on the table, and he can not come out and say that standing pat is the best solution for the pacers going forward.

At this stage a salarydump is better going forward IMO however I'm prepared to give in that point.

I will not give in that for instance dumping salary AND getting a young player is nto a better move forward then keeping Murphy. (or AJ, God help us now he's playing again)

DGPR
02-18-2010, 12:34 PM
I really think that LB was just asking way too much for Murphy and teams waited until the last minute to find other offers and the offers were 10x better than Troy Murphy.

90'sNBARocked
02-18-2010, 12:46 PM
Yeah next year right now is when Murphy's value will go through the roof. Reading this morning the Bucks are reluctant to take on Murphy because he is scheduled to make $12M next season, well next year at this time that won't be an issue, he'll be an expiring.

The future of the pacers franchise will be determined by two things - what draft picks they get this year and next and how well they parlay Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy, and Foster's expiring contracts into a winning team.

I would say the future of Bird and Company will be determined

90'sNBARocked
02-18-2010, 12:50 PM
josh is a fringe 12th man at best end of story

to think otherwise is to dillute oneself


not to crush hopes but there are really only a few players on our team that are not 12th man material

D. Jones, Granger, Hibbert,

everyone else to me is average at best and most below average

we are one of the least talented in the league right now

Thanks Bird, maybe Jesus is part of your 3 year plan

Speed
02-18-2010, 12:51 PM
I think it's French benefits. If you are going to say dillute, just say french too. :D

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 01:12 PM
Rebuilding and being a playoff team will never coexist with each other.

Ummmm ... you might have heard of this team that went to the NBA Finals, turned over the roster losing 3 starters off the Finals team and had season win totals the next 4 years of 41, 42, 48, and then 61 wins. Rebuilding the team while making the playoffs.

Just a hunch, but you might have heard of them. They're the Indiana Pacers. I hear they're popular around here.

-- Steve --

Speed
02-18-2010, 01:19 PM
It's less than 2 hours before the deadline, do you think management is even taking calls anymore or are they at lunch? Can someone check St. Elmos to see if Larry's in the back?

Unclebuck
02-18-2010, 01:33 PM
How can you say "josh oh please"

We haven't seen Josh enough to know either way.

Most of the board didn't think Price would make the team, and if he did that he wouldn't get time.

Well now that he's got his chance, half the board wants him starting, and I'd venture to say there isn't a member here who thinks he should go back to the bench.

Price got a chance.

Well McBob hasn't had one. So give him one. What's the worse that can happen...we lose...oh wait..

I can watch Price for 15 minutes of game time and I can see a future. He's an NBA player. I have watched probably every minute McBob has played as a pacers player over almost two years and I'll, say he doesn't have NBA skills, talent, or ability.

Some players have it and some don't. McRoberts doesn't have it.

I would have no problem if he got 15 minutes per game the rest of the year as that hopefully would end this silly debate.

pacergod2
02-18-2010, 01:35 PM
No trade made means very simply LB is screwing up once again, no two ways about it, plenty of offers on the table, and he can not come out and say that standing pat is the best solution for the pacers going forward.

At this stage a salarydump is better going forward IMO however I'm prepared to give in that point.

I will not give in that for instance dumping salary AND getting a young player is nto a better move forward then keeping Murphy. (or AJ, God help us now he's playing again)

You guys are off your rockers. I feel like Unclebuck here defending JOB for the sake of defending him, because of the irrational ridiculousness coming from some of you.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WE HAD OFFERS ON THE TABLE FOR AN EXPIRING AND YOUNG TALENT?!?!?!

We do NOT know this. This has all been speculation. If a deal like that was on the table up to this point, we would have seen a deal, but it obviously wasn't. So saying that Bird isn't doing anything is short-sighted. Something it seems people on here are great at. While I am not trying to give LB and DM a pass, I understand their realistic situation. They did not get those kind of offers you guys are assuming. The only problem I see is that we continue to play Murphy and Watson significant minutes while McRoberts and Price don't play. THAT IS THE TANGIBLE PROBLEM WE ALL REALIZE.

So this Bird bashing is a bit ridiculous. And if you are going to bash Bird, please bash Morway too. Morway is ACTUALLY THE GM. Not Bird. I really like Morway too, but he should be getting a lot of the bad rap from your impatience.

Unclebuck
02-18-2010, 01:36 PM
I find it hilarious that the same person who loves everything Foster, is not even willing to consider McRoberts as a potential asset.

I've addressed that before - don't feel like getting into it again. I'll just say they aren't the same player.

let me add, I love hustle players. That is why I loved Artest so much he was a hustle player who had talent, skills ability all of it. Jeff is a hustle player, no doubt. So I am almost pre-determined to like McBob as a player, but I don't see a hustle player and I see no real NBA ability.

Kraft
02-18-2010, 01:48 PM
to think otherwise is to dillute oneself

I prefer to dilute myself with alcohol, personally.

Sorry, not intending to grammar police at all. I just thought that one was particularly funny.

90'sNBARocked
02-18-2010, 02:02 PM
It's less than 2 hours before the deadline, do you think management is even taking calls anymore or are they at lunch? Can someone check St. Elmos to see if Larry's in the back?

naw man

There carefully crafting their "Please be patient" speech

Pacer life F'N suks right now

90'sNBARocked
02-18-2010, 02:07 PM
You guys are off your rockers. I feel like Unclebuck here defending JOB for the sake of defending him, because of the irrational ridiculousness coming from some of you.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WE HAD OFFERS ON THE TABLE FOR AN EXPIRING AND YOUNG TALENT?!?!?!

We do NOT know this. This has all been speculation. If a deal like that was on the table up to this point, we would have seen a deal, but it obviously wasn't. So saying that Bird isn't doing anything is short-sighted. Something it seems people on here are great at. While I am not trying to give LB and DM a pass, I understand their realistic situation. They did not get those kind of offers you guys are assuming. The only problem I see is that we continue to play Murphy and Watson significant minutes while McRoberts and Price don't play. THAT IS THE TANGIBLE PROBLEM WE ALL REALIZE.

So this Bird bashing is a bit ridiculous. And if you are going to bash Bird, please bash Morway too. Morway is ACTUALLY THE GM. Not Bird. I really like Morway too, but he should be getting a lot of the bad rap from your impatience.

fine

THEY BOTH SUCK AND NEED TO BE BASHED
BIRD AS A GM SUCKS, OBIE AS A COACH SUCKS

I dont care who has their back , they have done an absolutley poor job in their so called rebuilding efforts

Walsh took over the Knicks in a much worse situation, and has them positioned now to make a run at TWO FA's , if sucessfull then will be light years ahead of the Pacers

does anyone really have faith that somehow Bird and company will "get it" when the expirings are set to kick in?


I dont

Speed
02-18-2010, 02:08 PM
naw man

There carefully crafting their "Please be patient" speech

Pacer life F'N suks right now

I wonder if Bruno has gotten the press release yet, basically just copy and paste from last year, if not.

odeez
02-18-2010, 02:11 PM
I won't say anyone sucks or should be fired. We've heard it all before... The only thing that sucks is this feeling in my gut about this team!

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 02:15 PM
You guys are off your rockers. I feel like Unclebuck here defending JOB for the sake of defending him, because of the irrational ridiculousness coming from some of you.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WE HAD OFFERS ON THE TABLE FOR AN EXPIRING AND YOUNG TALENT?!?!?!

We do NOT know this. This has all been speculation. If a deal like that was on the table up to this point, we would have seen a deal, but it obviously wasn't. So saying that Bird isn't doing anything is short-sighted. Something it seems people on here are great at. While I am not trying to give LB and DM a pass, I understand their realistic situation. They did not get those kind of offers you guys are assuming. The only problem I see is that we continue to play Murphy and Watson significant minutes while McRoberts and Price don't play. THAT IS THE TANGIBLE PROBLEM WE ALL REALIZE.

So this Bird bashing is a bit ridiculous. And if you are going to bash Bird, please bash Morway too. Morway is ACTUALLY THE GM. Not Bird. I really like Morway too, but he should be getting a lot of the bad rap from your impatience.

I wish I could thank this 10 times.

We don't have anything other teams want. People want this man to turn this turd he inherited into a shiny Golden bar. If we had a 23 million dollar expiring contract, or talented NBA players, I'm sure we look like geniuses this year. We don't. We haven't, and people are hoping for miracles and are crying like babies when the odds play themselves out, because odds are, nobody wants the **** we're peddling.

Damn.

-- Steve --

able
02-18-2010, 02:21 PM
You guys are off your rockers. I feel like Unclebuck here defending JOB for the sake of defending him, because of the irrational ridiculousness coming from some of you.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WE HAD OFFERS ON THE TABLE FOR AN EXPIRING AND YOUNG TALENT?!?!?!

We do NOT know this. This has all been speculation. If a deal like that was on the table up to this point, we would have seen a deal, but it obviously wasn't. So saying that Bird isn't doing anything is short-sighted. Something it seems people on here are great at. While I am not trying to give LB and DM a pass, I understand their realistic situation. They did not get those kind of offers you guys are assuming. The only problem I see is that we continue to play Murphy and Watson significant minutes while McRoberts and Price don't play. THAT IS THE TANGIBLE PROBLEM WE ALL REALIZE.

So this Bird bashing is a bit ridiculous. And if you are going to bash Bird, please bash Morway too. Morway is ACTUALLY THE GM. Not Bird. I really like Morway too, but he should be getting a lot of the bad rap from your impatience.


Yeah I am off my rockers, but i was before you were born, so don't come claiming something you merely noticed now.

As far as trade options is concerned, you are now also declaring that every publication of trade offers on the table was a fairy tale sprouting from my mad brain

think before you shout

able
02-18-2010, 02:26 PM
I wish I could thank this 10 times.

We don't have anything other teams want. People want this man to turn this turd he inherited into a shiny Golden bar. If we had a 23 million dollar expiring contract, or talented NBA players, I'm sure we look like geniuses this year. We don't. We haven't, and people are hoping for miracles and are crying like babies when the odds play themselves out, because odds are, nobody wants the **** we're peddling.

Damn.

-- Steve --


no he traded the 23 million one away 2 years ago, part is now called TJ

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 02:28 PM
As far as trade options is concerned, you are now also declaring that every publication of trade offers on the table was a fairy tale sprouting from my mad brain


If I had to guess, most of the reports we heard were what the Pacers were asking for. Not what teams were offering, but people got all excited and happy hearing idea's that weren't realistic.

I would bet in the case of Milwaukee, Sacramento, and Cleveland, all they offered were expiring contracts. Willing to pay Murphy the money he is owed next year. Nothing else. Any other trade "scenario" you heard was probably the Pacers asking price that was never met. It's common sense to realize this.

The only one I thought was a possibility was Kevin Martin, because he just didn't fit what Sacramento has anymore, and his contract is fairly long. Alas, they found a better deal along the way as well.

-- Steve --

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 02:31 PM
no he traded the 23 million one away 2 years ago, part is now called TJ

Yes, and at the time everyone seemed pretty united that it was time for him to go. I guess now you're going to tell me he should have just kept a malcontent on the roster until now to facilitate a trade years later that nobody could have predicted would be possible?

-- Steve --

90'sNBARocked
02-18-2010, 02:34 PM
I prefer to dilute myself with alcohol, personally.

Sorry, not intending to grammar police at all. I just thought that one was particularly funny.

it was funny :)

I have no problem laughing at myself

I do some dumb *** at times :)

Mr_Smith
02-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Ummmm ... you might have heard of this team that went to the NBA Finals, turned over the roster losing 3 starters off the Finals team and had season win totals the next 4 years of 41, 42, 48, and then 61 wins. Rebuilding the team while making the playoffs.

Just a hunch, but you might have heard of them. They're the Indiana Pacers. I hear they're popular around here.

-- Steve --

Ummmm....those teams were a hell of alot better than what we are seeing now...especially the 61 win team and every other team from the early 2000's you are referencing to.

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 07:51 PM
Ummmm....those teams were a hell of alot better than what we are seeing now...especially the 61 win team and every other team from the early 2000's you are referencing to.

How does that even begin to change the point? Yes they were better teams, that's obvious. However that was the rebuilding process. The 40 win years and playoff appearances. Which negated your point. Which you said will never happen. When it did, in this decade even.

-- Steve --

WetBob
02-18-2010, 08:25 PM
I've addressed that before - don't feel like getting into it again. I'll just say they aren't the same player.

let me add, I love hustle players. That is why I loved Artest so much he was a hustle player who had talent, skills ability all of it. Jeff is a hustle player, no doubt. So I am almost pre-determined to like McBob as a player, but I don't see a hustle player and I see no real NBA ability.

You're right. They aren't the same player. McRoberts is a better ball handler, passer, and offensive player.

What are these so-called "NBA skills" that he lacks? He is certainly far more skilled than Jeff.

ksuttonjr76
02-18-2010, 08:50 PM
If I had to guess, most of the reports we heard were what the Pacers were asking for. Not what teams were offering, but people got all excited and happy hearing idea's that weren't realistic.

I would bet in the case of Milwaukee, Sacramento, and Cleveland, all they offered were expiring contracts. Willing to pay Murphy the money he is owed next year. Nothing else. Any other trade "scenario" you heard was probably the Pacers asking price that was never met. It's common sense to realize this.

The only one I thought was a possibility was Kevin Martin, because he just didn't fit what Sacramento has anymore, and his contract is fairly long. Alas, they found a better deal along the way as well.

-- Steve --

The only demand that I thought was too much was the Big Z, Hickson, and TWO draft picks.

Hicks
02-18-2010, 08:56 PM
You're right. They aren't the same player. McRoberts is a better ball handler, passer, and offensive player.

What are these so-called "NBA skills" that he lacks? He is certainly far more skilled than Jeff.

Until proven otherwise, Jeff is a better defender and rebounder.

pacergod2
02-18-2010, 09:34 PM
The only demand that I thought was too much was the Big Z, Hickson, and TWO draft picks.

I agree, but the teams that needed to agree that Murphy was worth more than an expiring... definitely did not. So that is why he is still with us. The Cavs got Jameson who is a much better play than Murphy IMO for Z and their 29th-32nd overall pick. Hickson was drafted late first and shows promise, so he was worth more than their first rounder this year and everybody in the league just about agreed. Hence he is still a Cav. I also did not see the Kings trade Jason Thompson not the Bucks, Ilyosava.

I am not trying to be offensive, but I just think that the banter about doing nothing is terrible. I was in the boat that we needed to get some cap relief for next year by this deadline because we could more easily clear space. I am firmly behind MORWAY and Bird by not making a move because all they could get for Murphy was cap relief, which does not translate at all to talent on the court, which is our biggest need.

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 09:47 PM
The only demand that I thought was too much was the Big Z, Hickson, and TWO draft picks.

I think expecting Jason Thompson and Illasyofuaha (whatever his name) was too much to expect. Mainly because Murphy did not mean a championship move for either team. For the Cavaliers a move could mean a title in the time frame they needed to convince Lebron to stay.

What did the Bucks or Kings have to gain? A playoff spot? Even that's still up for debate. That's like us agreeing to give up Hibbert to get an 8th seed this year. That would be terrible decision making.

Looking at the teams situations, what went down makes total sense. Either way, nobody knows what those 2 draft picks were. A late first and a 2nd rounder? A 2nd rounder from the team with the best record is almost nothing, to be honest. I think the Cavs offer was closer to what they were willing to give up in their situation. They had something very real to gain, the Kings and Bucks didn't.

Also, my issue with complaining about nothing being done is that doing nothing is going to cost this team extra money. I'm sorry, but I find it promising that our owner was willing to stick to his guns and not cave to just saving money. Murphy will have serious value next year. For a team losing money and in a bad way, the owner still refused to just give away an asset for money. That my friends is promising to me. In a major way. It shows he's committed to winning, and fixing this damn thing. Not just saving money.

-- Steve --

ksuttonjr76
02-18-2010, 10:00 PM
I agree, but the teams that needed to agree that Murphy was worth more than an expiring... definitely did not. So that is why he is still with us. The Cavs got Jameson who is a much better play than Murphy IMO for Z and their 29th-32nd overall pick. Hickson was drafted late first and shows promise, so he was worth more than their first rounder this year and everybody in the league just about agreed. Hence he is still a Cav. I also did not see the Kings trade Jason Thompson not the Bucks, Ilyosava.

I am not trying to be offensive, but I just think that the banter about doing nothing is terrible. I was in the boat that we needed to get some cap relief for next year by this deadline because we could more easily clear space. I am firmly behind MORWAY and Bird by not making a move because all they could get for Murphy was cap relief, which does not translate at all to talent on the court, which is our biggest need.

I will agree that doing a complete salary dump wasn't necessary, but I would have been satisified with just Big Z and Hickson (Hickson being the main target). As I stated before, I was looking more to get rid of Murphy to remove JOB's option of using a stretch-4 and to force him design traditional basketball plays.

Pacersfan46
02-18-2010, 10:05 PM
I will agree that doing a complete salary dump wasn't necessary, but I would have been satisified with just Big Z and Hickson (Hickson being the main target). As I stated before, I was looking more to get rid of Murphy to remove JOB's option of using a stretch-4 and designing traditional basketball plays.

That's where I like that we did nothing. You're worried about JOB's crutch. I'm worried about when JOB is no longer walking the sidelines for the Pacers. Every deal that we make needs to be related to the idea of "Screw now, how will this matter to the Pacers in 2-5 years?"

That's it. You can't put a band aid on a broken arm and call it fixed. That's what I'd say trading Murphy just to force JOB to coach a different way would be close to. As screwed up as this team is, it needs a long and well thought out healing process. Not quick fixes, knee jerk reactions and giving away assets. That's how we got in this mess, and not how you will fix it.

Either way, I'm sure if we said that's all we wanted the Cavs would have (and understandably) said, we'll think about it. We'll get back to you if we absolutely can't get Amare or Jamison, and they ended up with Jamison. I don't think it would have netted us Hickson anyway.

-- Steve --

imawhat
02-18-2010, 10:23 PM
I have mixed feelings.

1. I only liked one trade rumor, which was Murphy/Ford for Ray Allen. I was lukewarm on the Milwaukee trade only because I think Ilyasova is going to be a very good player, but I don't think he fit in and I don't fully buy the 'collecting talent' angle (still he was the bright spot of that deal..the rest was crud). If he was ever on the board, then I'd lean towards believing other talented but better-fitting players were available.

2. I'll come out and say it, but it's probably not a suprise. Troy Murphy is my least favorite Pacer of all-time, and I have a hard time enjoying the team play when he's on the floor. I struggle even when he's having a relatively good game.

3. I think we'll wind up with a better pick by keeping Murphy, so I'm sorta okay with us keeping him (long-term).

4. I'm struggling to find things I like about this team, so something fresh would have been nice.

5. Even though I think they've done a fine job (save the JOB situation), it would have been nice to see a trade as a gesture of effort. Despite what some/most of us know, the casual fan sees no trade and thinks no effort. But I'm glad we didn't make a bad deal.

6. Not sure what all of this means, because I'm questioning how devoted I am to following a team like this. I've been down in the dumps today thinking about how I'm going to make it through the last few games of Murphy and O'Brien (mainly O'Brien). Only getting by on memories at this point. What makes it terrible (IMO) is that I actually see a talented group of players that, in the right system, would be above .500 right now. Instead, we're well out of the playoffs and not devoted to developing our younger players. Forget trades/free agents/drafts; I don't agree or understand our (lack of) strategy.

ksuttonjr76
02-19-2010, 04:42 AM
That's where I like that we did nothing. You're worried about JOB's crutch. I'm worried about when JOB is no longer walking the sidelines for the Pacers. Every deal that we make needs to be related to the idea of "Screw now, how will this matter to the Pacers in 2-5 years?"

That's it. You can't put a band aid on a broken arm and call it fixed. That's what I'd say trading Murphy just to force JOB to coach a different way would be close to. As screwed up as this team is, it needs a long and well thought out healing process. Not quick fixes, knee jerk reactions and giving away assets. That's how we got in this mess, and not how you will fix it.

Either way, I'm sure if we said that's all we wanted the Cavs would have (and understandably) said, we'll think about it. We'll get back to you if we absolutely can't get Amare or Jamison, and they ended up with Jamison. I don't think it would have netted us Hickson anyway.

-- Steve --

I disagree. With Hickson (19th pick, 1st Round), Indiana would have gotten a young (21 years old) PF with upward potential. Some people are stuck on the "He's only good, because he plays with Lebron" belief. How do we REALLY know that until we play him? IMHO, Hickson can/could fit into our long term plans. The only thing that we lost with acquiring Hickson over a draft pick is that we didn't get a chance to play him in OUR system for the first 1.5 years of his career. Whoopie big deal. Even that might be a moot point, because JOB might not be around for the long haul. What's the difference between acquiring a young talent that fills a needed role vs Indiana making the pick themselves? Lastly, by acquiring Hickson that would have been one less young talent to get, and it gives Indiana opportunity to draft a PG.

Of course, some people are against drafting a PG in a PF heavy draft. I say, why not? If everyone is drafting PFs, that gives Indiana an opportunity to draft the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind drafting the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. We just have to decide what's going to be more impactful to the team. The 4th - 6th best PF in the draft, or the 2nd/3rd PG in the draft? Real talk that doesn't matter, since we didn't acquire him anyways.

pacergod2
02-19-2010, 07:24 AM
It would have been great if we were actually offered Hickson and Z for Murphy.

ksuttonjr76
02-19-2010, 08:43 AM
It would have been great if we were actually offered Hickson and Z for Murphy.

From my understanding, Indiana wanted TWO draft picks included. I would go find the link, but I'm feeling kinda lazy. I would like to think that the Cavs were offering more than just Z's contract, and expecting us to waive him. If that was all they were offering, then Bird did right by not making a move.

Unclebuck
02-19-2010, 08:51 AM
You're right. They aren't the same player. McRoberts is a better ball handler, passer, and offensive player.

What are these so-called "NBA skills" that he lacks? He is certainly far more skilled than Jeff.

Passing - equal. Both are surprisingly good.
ball handler - I honestly have no idea. Not that important for either
Offensive player - both are bad. Jeff has a lot more experience, but OK Josh is better

OK, aren't both players here for defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles. So aren't those the important categories. Jeff is head and shoulders better than Josh in everyone of these categories. Within two years when Josh is out of the NBA and never to be heard from again - I will rest my case.

IndyPacer
02-19-2010, 10:45 AM
I've been a lifelong Pacers fan, but I'm not sure I can stand to watch many more games while JOB is coach. I can deal with a team struggling or having a poor record, but I don't see this team going anywhere while JOB is coach. I just can't deal with JOB's coaching anymore.

pacergod2
02-19-2010, 11:00 AM
Yeah. The Cavs got Jamison for Z, their first, and taking on Sebastian Telfair and his two year deal. That tells you what we could get for Murphy. Hickson and that draft pick were probably not even on the table for Murph. We may have been able to snare the first if Washington had completely pulled Jamison off the table but that was hopeful at best.

pwee31
02-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Of course, some people are against drafting a PG in a PF heavy draft. I say, why not? If everyone is drafting PFs, that gives Indiana an opportunity to draft the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind drafting the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. We just have to decide what's going to be more impactful to the team. The 4th - 6th best PF in the draft, or the 2nd/3rd PG in the draft? Real talk that doesn't matter, since we didn't acquire him anyways.

The Pacers can't afford to draft a PG just because they need a PG. The Pacers need talent and have to draft the best talent available, regardless of the position.

I think that's even more the case this draft since the 2nd best PG is probably a mid to late 1st rounder.

Though I think Hansbrough is going to be an awesome player, we haven't been able to see that due to injuries, so if the best player available is a PF, then you draft a PF. It's as simple as that.

There's other ways to get PG help through another pick or through trade, no need to reach for a PG in a draft that's going to be really important this offseason

pacergod2
02-19-2010, 11:31 AM
There's other ways to get PG help through another pick or through trade, no need to reach for a PG in a draft that's going to be really important this offseason

We might do well around this year's draft, because between us and the Nets, we should have a very large amount of ping pong balls. If we win, we fix our PG solution. If the Nets win, we could swing something for Devin Harris. Some may not love Devin Harris, but he is certainly a starting caliber PG in the NBA. Something we don't currently have.

I love Earl Watson, and he can definitely play significant minutes at PG, but he is not a long-term player here or anywhere for that matter at this point in his career. Turning 30 this summer, he will probably have a couple more good years to be a great back-up for a contender after his play this year.

Justin Tyme
02-19-2010, 11:45 AM
Passing - equal. Both are surprisingly good.
ball handler - I honestly have no idea. Not that important for either
Offensive player - both are bad. Jeff has a lot more experience, but OK Josh is better

OK, aren't both players here for defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles. So aren't those the important categories. Jeff is head and shoulders better than Josh in everyone of these categories. Within two years when Josh is out of the NBA and never to be heard from again - I will rest my case.


I'm not a McBob fan, BUT Foster isn't worth 5+ mil a year more for an old injured prone on the downside of his career one trick player. If Foster was in his prime and injury free, I'd be more incline to agree with you, BUT he ISN'T. That's the crux of the whole thing. Foster got an extension out of loyalty. Loyalty is great, but Bird overpaid for it by 2-3 mil.

WetBob
02-19-2010, 12:31 PM
Passing - equal. Both are surprisingly good.
ball handler - I honestly have no idea. Not that important for either
Offensive player - both are bad. Jeff has a lot more experience, but OK Josh is better

OK, aren't both players here for defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles. So aren't those the important categories. Jeff is head and shoulders better than Josh in everyone of these categories. Within two years when Josh is out of the NBA and never to be heard from again - I will rest my case.

How do you know that Foster is head and shoulder's better at anything? Josh has never been put in a position show anything consistently. In the spot few chances he's had, he's shown that he's an effective player. He's looked to be a better defender than Hansbrough, Murphy, or Jones. He is only going to turn 23 at the end of this month. I think you're crazy to unequivocally say he'll be out of the league in two years.

Pacersfan46
02-19-2010, 02:55 PM
I disagree. With Hickson (19th pick, 1st Round), Indiana would have gotten a young (21 years old) PF with upward potential. Some people are stuck on the "He's only good, because he plays with Lebron" belief. How do we REALLY know that until we play him? IMHO, Hickson can/could fit into our long term plans. The only thing that we lost with acquiring Hickson over a draft pick is that we didn't get a chance to play him in OUR system for the first 1.5 years of his career. Whoopie big deal. Even that might be a moot point, because JOB might not be around for the long haul. What's the difference between acquiring a young talent that fills a needed role vs Indiana making the pick themselves? Lastly, by acquiring Hickson that would have been one less young talent to get, and it gives Indiana opportunity to draft a PG.

Of course, some people are against drafting a PG in a PF heavy draft. I say, why not? If everyone is drafting PFs, that gives Indiana an opportunity to draft the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind drafting the 2nd/3rd best PG in the draft. We just have to decide what's going to be more impactful to the team. The 4th - 6th best PF in the draft, or the 2nd/3rd PG in the draft? Real talk that doesn't matter, since we didn't acquire him anyways.

Just a couple of things, I agree with you about Hickson. I do. However the fact that they didn't give up Hickson to get Jamison (who is a superior player) shows me that we wouldn't have gotten him for Murphy.

Secondly, the talent of a player isn't tied directly to their rating at their position against other guys in the draft. John Wall is the obvious #1 point guard, but the 2nd best PG may not even be worth a lottery pick. Just because you're the 2nd best prospect at your position, it doesn't mean you're still a good prospect. The #6 PF could very easily still be a better prospect than the #2 PG. It would just mean the draft had a lot of good PF's, and was very shallow at the PG position. In that spot, I'm taking a PF every time.

-- Steve --