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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

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  • #1

    Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

    I recently made a purchase on eBay from a retailer called GearXS (located in Illinois). It was a wireless router.

    I ordered on Jan 8th. On Jan 12th I was notified that it had shipped and was provided a tracking number. Tracking showed me it was shipped via FedEx Smart Post, which is a joint venture between Fed Ex and the Post Office where Fed Ex delivers the item to the closest PO and the PO then makes the actual delivery.

    At that time tracking had a range of dates for expected delivery (not a specific date). So several days passed and I realized it was taking a while. On Friday the 22nd I checked Tracking again. According to tracking it was delivered on the 16th. That was a Saturday. I was home all day on Saturday. I contacted FedEx via email and they told me the shipper would have to initiate a trace. I then emailed GearXS who told me I'd have to call. I did and they repeated the same info that FedEx had stated that a trace would take 7-10 days and they would initiate one.

    I have a friend who works at the Post Office and he told me I should talk directly with them because they should have more info and also my carrier could still remember about delivery (especially since it was a Saturday delivery and my Saturday carrier only normally works on Saturday).

    So I do go to the Post Office.... and am told to call the delivery supervisor Sat morning before the carrier has left the building.

    I call as instructed....
    The delivery supervisor looks up the tracking # and the USPS tracking shows him that although the package is showing as delivered on the 16th, it's also showing as scanned in Cincy, OH on the 20th (100 miles away). Clearly, if it's still in the system and in Cincy on the 20th I don't have it. Further, he checks with the carrier who tells him he knows my address and has not had any packages for me.

    The delivery supervisor said to give the package a few more days and if it doesn't arrive to call him again.

    So I wait... still no router... I allow the rest of 10 days to pass thinking something might happen on the GearXS/FedEx end. Nothing heard after over 10 days of waiting since the initial contact and alleged opening of a FedEx claim.

    So I contact local PO to report item still isn't here. Delivery supervisor looks it up and there's been no change... last scanned in Cincy on the 20th. He says he will call Cincy USPS center to see if they can help sort this out. Of course I hear nothing back.

    Next day I contact GearXS via email again to see if they'd heard anything from FedEx plus to update them on what I've learned from the PO. GearXS replies back that tracking shows the item delivered on the 16th (with a screen cap of the USPS website tracking), doesn't mention FedEx claim, and adds there is nothing about it being in California.

    I reply immediately, that Cincinnati is in Ohio, not California, and it is internal USPS tracking provided by the delivery supervisor that shows it scanned in Cincinnati on the 20th, not the simple version on the web. I even give him the my local USPS phone number.

    I then get another reply saying they've talked to ----- at the Post Office but that the delivery supervisor was out of the office. The name was legit so I do believe they called the PO. But they say this postal employee denied my claim the item wasn't delivered... but also say they (GearXS) will call again in the morning when delivery supervisor is to be there.

    Next day comes and goes... Nothing heard. So I AGAIN contact GearXS to see what was found out and I did add that this was dragging on too long and it was time for a resolution. They replied saying the PO is denying my claims the package wasn't delivered!!

    I call PO again but delivery supervisor is off that afternoon. I then call someone I know who works at the PO and he gets with person GearXS claimed they talked with the first time. They both see exactly what I've been saying on internal USPS tracking.... and got quite a bit more information as well. Everything was still exactly as I'd been telling GearXS.

    So I contact GearXS again, explaining that all again. And now I'm telling them it's been over a month since I paid and I still don't have the router... and it's their chosen shipper that has lost it. I tell them I need a new router, the original found and on it's way here, or a refund. I also tell them if it's not rectified shortly I will be leaving negative eBay feedback. Again they come back with the PO is denying my claim that it was not delivered.... and add that they can't refund money or ship a replacement if the item was delivered!!! Grrrrrrr

    I followup with a more pointed email telling them their information is vastly different than what the PO is telling me and that if the package is in Cincy 4 days after it was 'delivered' then obviously I don't have it. I then tell them since they are refusing to make this right I am going to leave negative feedback as well as utilize other forms to communicate my dissatification with their response.

    -
    I then left negative feedback as well as opened a case with eBay about the transaction. I've not heard back from the case I opened.
    --
    That gets us thru this past Friday.

    Then I call the delivery supervisor at PO again this past Sat morning. He tells me that it looks like I need to contact the company and tell them the item never arrived so that they can get a new one sent out. I explain to him they're telling me that he's denying my claim that it wasn't delivered and so they are refusing to anything. He said he'll call Cincy on Tuesday... and at the least maybe get the status of the package changed.

    Meanwhile I get this today from GearXS:
    Hello.
    Upon reviewing your last email we have contacted eBay about this matter, negative feedback on this transaction will be removed. Your last email will be filed under our system as feedback extortion and this account will be blocked permanently from our site. If a claim is denied we are more than happy to help a customer battle it out with the shipping provider, but under no circumstance will we ship another unit if the prior unit sent out is stating delivered to the correct ship to address. We have no indication that
    this unit is in Cincinnati this tracking number shows

    This transaction has escalated to negative feedback and we will now let eBay mediate this resolution.

    GearXS
    6224 Madison Ct
    Morton Grove, IL 60053
    ebay@gearxs.com (E-mail)
    (800) 438-7516 (Main)
    (800) 438-7630 (Fax)



    They also attached a copy of the USPS tracking off the website again.
    What really frosts me is that I KNOW what internal USPS tracking shows. I've reiterated that to them several times. They've simply confirmed the delivery date that is showing and not asked any further questions or wanted any further info. Obviously they aren't 'happy to help me battle it out with a shipper'.
    ----

    Why did this place get my business in the first place? ...They were in Illinois and I figured I'd have my router in a couple of days....
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden
    Tags: bad retailer, gearxs
  • #2
    Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

    Road trip !!

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

      You need to get a hard copy of the info that the local PO is giving you, make sure the shipping supervisor signs it as accurate, then fax that to both GearXS AND eBay. Then insist that eBay allow your negative feedback to stand.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

        I have used ebay dispute before, they are good but are a bit drawn out.

        As Travmil stated you need keep copies of ALL of your emails and all the information from your local P.O.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

          I got a seller banned from eBay once, and yes it takes a while. Wasn't my purchase, it was my ex g/f's but she was entirely too passive to do anything about it. So I did it all for her.

          She wanted me to let it go, but I tried to explain to her that she is as much at fault for the next person getting screwed if she doesn't take action. That's how those losers continue to get away with that mess.

          -- Steve --

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

            This is stupid and not relevant. But maybe it will give BBall some vicarious satisfaction:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii4Cj...eature=related



            (Whatever happened to the old way of embedding YouTube vids?)
            And I won't be here to see the day
            It all dries up and blows away
            I'd hang around just to see
            But they never had much use for me
            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
              This is stupid and not relevant. But maybe it will give BBall some vicarious satisfaction:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii4Cj...eature=related



              (Whatever happened to the old way of embedding YouTube vids?)
              You just copy the html code from youtube now.
              Play Mafia!
              Twitter

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                Update-
                I don't understand eBay's reply that I got today.

                After reviewing your account I see that you have escalated this case
                prematurely. As a reminder, we allow you and the seller 7 days to work
                the situation out amongst yourselves before we take action. Unless the
                seller has responded directly to the case, we always allow this time for
                our sellers to get involved.

                I made a mistake on the dates when I initially filled out the eBay online form and typed 2 when I meant 1 for the month (DOH!). BUT I followed that up with the case # and explained I had made a typo on the date, explained the typo AND pasted the original text with the 2 typos corrected. And THAT is what the eBay rep replied to. Am I supposed to wait 7 days after the company makes it clear they aren't doing anything for me?

                Anyway... I replied to that, explained the dates again, and pasted some of GearXS most recent emails to me. It's clear from GearXS' email they are finished with this.

                ----
                I checked on the company's Better Business Bureau rating and it's an "F".

                I went ahead and registered a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. GearXS did reply to the BBB's contact with this:

                We have been trying to work with this consumer and we have opened a lost claim with FedEx per his request (Jan 27,2010). The tracking number (XXXXXXXXXX4910) shows that it was delivered to him on Jan 16, 2010. Until we hear back from FedEx on the status of the claim we are in a hard spot. We ask that the consumer would allow time for the claim to go throw FedEx.

                That was a lot more of a professional reply than I got. The BBB then gave me the option to accept that reply or rebut it. I rebutted it with this:

                A FedEx Claim is to take 7-10 days. They claim to have opened it on the 27th. That was 20 days ago. If they haven't heard from FedEx then they need to be contacting FedEx themselves for an update. Further, since the item was shipped FedEx Smart Post (meaning it would be delivered by the USPS) I have contacted my local Post Office several times about this package and their own internal tracking (more detailed than web based tracking available to senders and recipient) shows the package scanned in Cincinnati on the 20th of January (4 days after it was allegedly delivered). It gets fairly simple at that point to realize I don't have it.

                Besides all of that, the mail carrier for the 16th reports he didn't leave any packages for me.

                I gathered this information in one phone call to the local Post Office so I don't see how FedEx tracking could need 20 days (and counting).

                Subsequent phone calls to the local PO have confirmed that information as well as confirmed the package has shown no further movement since it was scanned in Cincinnati on the 20th (and Cincinnati is 100mi from here).

                I ordered the wireless router on the 8th of January and have paid for it. There has been more than an ample amount of time for it to arrive.

                I figure my money is gone but I'm not going away quietly....
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                  Bball, it seems to me if you could just get a hard copy of the more detailed shipping information where the thing was scanned in Cincy and then never scanned again, and then fax that hard copy to eBay, GearXS, and the BBB, this would be over pretty quickly.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                    Don't worry, BBall. FedEx and the Better Business Bureau have top men working on your case.

                    Top. Men.





                    .
                    And I won't be here to see the day
                    It all dries up and blows away
                    I'd hang around just to see
                    But they never had much use for me
                    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                      Originally posted by travmil View Post
                      Bball, it seems to me if you could just get a hard copy of the more detailed shipping information where the thing was scanned in Cincy and then never scanned again, and then fax that hard copy to eBay, GearXS, and the BBB, this would be over pretty quickly.
                      The local USPS delivery supervisor said he is going to try and get the tracking changed to reflect non delivery/lost. That should help more than anything.

                      GearXS has spoken with the local PO as well but all they care about is the 'delivered on the 16th' that tracking shows regardless of what followed that.

                      GearXS correspondence with me has been totally unhelpful the whole way.
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                        Originally posted by travmil View Post
                        Bball, it seems to me if you could just get a hard copy of the more detailed shipping information where the thing was scanned in Cincy and then never scanned again, and then fax that hard copy to eBay, GearXS, and the BBB, this would be over pretty quickly.
                        I assumed there would be some back and forth where that would be asked for, or I could offer it (and maybe have the tracking changed by that point online as well), but instead I just got this from eBay:

                        Decision:
                        This case has been decided in the seller's favor.

                        Comments:
                        "You will not be issued a refund."

                        No explanation. No "we need further information". No "this is what the seller said would you care to reply to it?". Just those 2 lines right there.

                        I have the chance to appeal but how do you appeal a decision that has no explanation?

                        It's not like they are giving me a fax number... or way to attach documents. There's just limited character online form.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                          Well, if you get that shipping information updated to reflect that it wasn't delivered, appeal it. If not, you're hosed.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                            Might as well appeal. And say you have supporting documents.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Do Not Buy From A Company Called GearXS

                              Originally posted by btowncolt View Post
                              Might as well appeal. And say you have supporting documents.
                              I agree.

                              Though in this case who gives a what ebay says.

                              Sure you may get a refund, but honestly I think that is a lost cause (if you get one, great, but don't bank on it)

                              The BBB, on the other hand, can be your friend big time. Especially if the P.O. changes the status to "lost"

                              Comment

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