PDA

View Full Version : Murph Is Cleveland's Plan B - Link - Pacers and Cavs have agreed on deal if plan A falls through



Pages : [1] 2

I Love P
02-15-2010, 11:08 AM
If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.


Lets pray that Amare somehow stays in Phoenix. Hickson is going to be a star.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64714/20100215/murphy_is_clevelands_plan_b/

Kegboy
02-15-2010, 11:16 AM
Wow. I know Ferry's an idiot, but why would he possibly, wait, nevermind, he might be reading this. :blush:

Unclebuck
02-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Wait something doesn't add up.

Plan A is to trade Z and Hickson to the Suns for Amare

Plan B is to trade Z and Hickson to the Pacers for Murphy


Wow, even if you look only at the absoluate positives that Troy brings going from A to B is a huge downgrade for the Cavs.

I added the second part to the thread title, hope that is OK Bender - just wanted to be sure it was known that this is new info - otherwise it probably would get buried in the long Murphy thread

Tom White
02-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Let's also hope that Bird isn't just waiting around for Cleveland to make up their minds.

dohman
02-15-2010, 11:35 AM
Option A is a pipe dream. It is one of those rare deals that happens because the team is so scared of not being able to resign him that they give him away for a bag of stale chips. The suns should just risk it and try to sign him over the summer. I know it gives them a lot of flexibility but it always takes them to a 20-30 win team.

The Murphy deal is more of a realistic trade. Losing murphy with no replacement is going to be tough. He does give us that nice 15 ppg. I wonder who is going to step up with those points.

PR07
02-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Wait something doesn't add up.

Plan A is to trade Z and Hickson to the Suns for Amare

Plan B is to trade Z and Hickson to the Pacers for Murphy


My Guess it that it's:

Z, Hickson, and Wally Szczerbiak (S&T) for Amare and Jason Richardson

{Unloading Richardson's contract is the sticking point for both parties}

or

Z and Hickson to the Pacers for Murphy

travmil
02-15-2010, 11:45 AM
There is absolutely no way the Cavs have agreed on the same package for both Amare and Troy. If you are telling me that Troy is equal in value to Amare we should try to trade Granger for LeBron right now. There has to be more to it on the Amare side.

Hicks
02-15-2010, 11:47 AM
Hard to be upset if that's what we get for Murphy.

I think the same package from CLE is what they'd LIKE to only have to give up for Amar'e, but odds are they won't get him that cheap. At least I'd like to think so.

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 11:48 AM
good that Murphy is somebody's plan B, I hope the pacers don't think the same thing, he should be plan Z for them.

Roaming Gnome
02-15-2010, 11:57 AM
Let's also hope that Bird isn't just waiting around for Cleveland to make up their minds.

THIS!

count55
02-15-2010, 11:57 AM
Hard to be upset if that's what we get for Murphy.

I think the same package from CLE is what they'd LIKE to only have to give up for Amar'e, but odds are they won't get him that cheap. At least I'd like to think so.

It looks to me like the Amare to CLE deal will go through by tomorrow, and the only way it won't happen is if Philly steps up and kicks Iggy into their deal for Amare-Barbosa.

That Traxxe guy was saying that there would probably be a pick and maybe some cash coming from Cleveland, but take that FWIW.

It's encouraging to hear that Murph is Cleveland's plan B, but I hope that we have a Plan B and Plan C. I really think we desperately need to dump the salary. I wouldn't be surprised at a "my crap for your crap" deal with Milwaukee...distant rumbles of Murphy-Ford for Ridnour-Gadz-Warrick-Alexander.

Just a straight salary dump, though the Pacers would probably try to hang onto Ridnour at a reduced rate after the season is over.

Dr. Awesome
02-15-2010, 12:02 PM
I don't buy it.

I doubt Cleveland will get Amare that cheap, there are always rumors like this, usually they amount to nothing. Maybe it will in this case, but I doubt it. I still don't see Cleveland giving up Hickson for Murphy, it just doesn't make sense.

bulldog
02-15-2010, 12:10 PM
I don't buy it.

I doubt Cleveland will get Amare that cheap, there are always rumors like this, usually they amount to nothing. Maybe it will in this case, but I doubt it. I still don't see Cleveland giving up Hickson for Murphy, it just doesn't make sense.

Agreed, the Cavs have become like the Lakers, where the team's popularity causes sportswriters to breathlessly report every rumor, innuendo, or bit of speculation they can find, and then it gets magnified and exaggerated by the message boards and rumor sites.

This summer is going to be intolerable. "LeBron bought a Philly Cheese Steak, he's going to the Sixers!!!1!11!!"

Unclebuck
02-15-2010, 12:13 PM
Hickson will not be a star - he won't be as good as Tyler - he'll be a nice addition, but we need to be realistic about him. He won't look as good for the Pacers as he has for the Cavs playing with Lebron

2minutes twowa
02-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Cleveland is in "win now" mode. That's why they're willing to trade for a piece that will get them over the top instead of wait for a young player to develop.

I also don't think you can compare talent to talent in this case. Murphy is a decent talent that produces decent numbers. You can argue that Hickson would do the same with more minutes, but the key here IMO is their style of play. Murphy will stretch the defense by making the opposing center guard him at the 3 pt line. This is why he's so attractive to Cleveland. His presence will leave the rim unprotected and Lebron will feast on it.

If Bird can pull this off and get a big expiring contract along with a young promising PF, it will be one of his best moves since moving JO. Hickson will have the rest of the season to basically prove he's starting material. If he is, then you have a lot more flexibility come draft time. I have a feeling Murph will be moved no matter what. I just hope it's this deal or an even better one.

Hicks
02-15-2010, 12:16 PM
It looks to me like the Amare to CLE deal will go through by tomorrow

Why?

odeez
02-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Yeah no way the same deal is going for Amare and Troy! Everyone can agree on that. And something tells me Amare isn't going to be traded at all. He stands to make more money in PHX. Cavs are really going to have sweetin the deal to make it happen. At least we will know by Thursday. I really hope we can swing something, but as I stated before wouldn't be surprised if nothing goes down for us

count55
02-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Why?

Because supposedly Miami doesn't have enough, and I don't think Philly is going to kick in Iguodala, which seems, from all of the different sources (Stein, Windhorst, Woj) to be the one deal that Phoenix likes better than what Cleveland is offering.

I think they'll basically know by tomorrow whether Philly's going to kick in Iggy.

1984
02-15-2010, 12:28 PM
Count your blessings Pacer fans. We may not land J.J. Hickson, but at least Steve Kerr isn't our general manager. The Pheonix fan base should be completely outraged by this deal and the manner in which Kerr has supplied Cleveland with top-tier talent for pennies on the dollar.

If it were possible to receive Amare in a sign-and-trade, I would be willing to offer much more than Cleveland. Amare-Granger-Hibbert would be an incredible front court. In fact, I don't know many teams in the league with that caliber of front court. The again, I suppose that is a pipe dream.

Cheers.

Hicks
02-15-2010, 12:45 PM
Because supposedly Miami doesn't have enough, and I don't think Philly is going to kick in Iguodala, which seems, from all of the different sources (Stein, Windhorst, Woj) to be the one deal that Phoenix likes better than what Cleveland is offering.

I think they'll basically know by tomorrow whether Philly's going to kick in Iggy.

With that said, do we know PHO is willing to settle for Z and Hickson? Do we know for sure they won't keep him if that's the best offer?

count55
02-15-2010, 12:52 PM
With that said, do we know PHO is willing to settle for Z and Hickson? Do we know for sure they won't keep him if that's the best offer?

We don't know anything, but the general consensus is that Phoenix is willing to take whatever Cleveland has on the table if nothing better comes along.

Nobody thinks they're going to keep Amare, because they think they'll lose him this summer for nothing.

pianoman
02-15-2010, 12:55 PM
I just don't see PHX being dumb enough to do this, they could do MUCH better.

pianoman
02-15-2010, 12:58 PM
We don't know anything, but the general consensus is that Phoenix is willing to take whatever Cleveland has on the table if nothing better comes along.

Nobody thinks they're going to keep Amare, because they think they'll lose him this summer for nothing.

Well, If thats true, lets trade Tyler, Mike D, TJ Ford and a 2nd round pick for him! We could offer a much better deal than they could.

BEST CASE SCENARIO

We end up trading for Amare unexpectedly the day of the Trade deadline, but we don't have to give up as much as we think.

d_c
02-15-2010, 01:01 PM
I just don't see PHX being dumb enough to do this, they could do MUCH better.

They could have much done better than to trade Kurt Thomas and 2 first round picks to the Thunder for 2 second round picks, but they didn't.......because they're owner was looking to shed salary.

Yes that trade actually did happen.

odeez
02-15-2010, 01:07 PM
With that said, do we know PHO is willing to settle for Z and Hickson? Do we know for sure they won't keep him if that's the best offer?

No we don't, IMO. But we love a good game of speculation!

Pacersfan46
02-15-2010, 01:08 PM
I can't fathom why the Knicks would stand by and allow this trade. I would jump all over it offering to save them the same (or more) money, and some other incentives. It would be the same as using their free agent money from this summer on Amare, and tells any other free agents that if they want to come to NY, they can team with a legit All Star.

-- Steve --

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 01:21 PM
I can't fathom why the BULLS would stand by and allow this trade. I would jump all over it offering to save them the same (or more) money, and some other incentives. It would be the same as using their free agent money from this summer on Amare, and tells any other free agents that if they want to come to CHICAGO, they can team with a legit All Star.

-- Steve --

fixed:)

Sollozzo
02-15-2010, 01:25 PM
There is absolutely no way the Cavs have agreed on the same package for both Amare and Troy. If you are telling me that Troy is equal in value to Amare we should try to trade Granger for LeBron right now. There has to be more to it on the Amare side.

I think Phoenix wants a first round pick too.

Pacersfan46
02-15-2010, 01:28 PM
fixed:)

If the Bulls make a move for Amare and resign him, that is their team. They can't make anymore moves in free agency. He would eat up all of their cap space. I probably would be offering Brad Miller and Tyrus Thomas though. So your idea that they could lure another FA to team with Amare isn't possible.

If you're New York however, you still have enough room to snag another major FA even without renouncing your rights to Amare after the season. Also for the Knicks, it hurts even worse if Amare goes to Cleveland because if it happens, odds are even greater that Amare and Lebron are staying put. You just made the free agent class you've waited on for so long much more shallow by doing nothing and allowing the Cavs to steal a guy.

-- Steve --

CableKC
02-15-2010, 01:40 PM
I didn't realize this until I saw that the Suns were over the 2009-2010 LT....but I think that the primary goal of the Suns is to avoid the 2009-2010 LT. That is why the Suns don't just want an Expiring Contract + some other asset for Amare......they specifically are looking for the best deal that they can get that would ( 1st ) somehow get them under the 2009-2010 LT while ( 2nd ) getting some assets for him. I think that one of the reasons why the Suns are considering the Cavs deal is purely due to financial reasons and the way that Zs contract is structured.

Currently, the Suns 2009-2010 SalaryCap is set at $74.93 mil....clearly over the LT threshold. Remember....Zs contract is "special" in that a portion of his 2009-2010 Salary is already paid for ( can't find the link but read it somewhere ). With the way that Zs contract is structured.......when the Suns buyout his contract...the financial impact that Zs "bought out" contract should be enough to get them under the LT.

count55 would have to help me clarify....but that maybe why other Teams like the Knicks or the Nets ( both of which have huge 2009-2010 Expiring Contracts to work with along with Assets such as Draft picks ) can't make as good of an offer as the Suns can....because of Zs contract that is mostly paid off? I don't know....there is something else going on here from a SalaryCap/Financial perspective that can be had with a Cavs trade that cannot come from other trade offers from other Teams.

On top of that.....there are other factors that both the Cavs and Suns are considering. It appears that the Suns want to move JRich as well with Amare....which maybe the sticking point for the Cavs. For the Cavs...unlike other teams that maybe interested in Amare.....I thought I read that the Cavs aren't as concerned about Amare's future commitment to whatever Team he is traded to.

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 01:43 PM
If the Bulls make a move for Amare and resign him, that is their team. They can't make anymore moves in free agency. He would eat up all of their cap space. I probably would be offering Brad Miller and Tyrus Thomas though. So your idea that they could lure another FA to team with Amare isn't possible.

If you're New York however, you still have enough room to snag another major FA even without renouncing your rights to Amare after the season. Also for the Knicks, it hurts even worse if Amare goes to Cleveland because if it happens, odds are even greater that Amare and Lebron are staying put. You just made the free agent class you've waited on for so long much more shallow by doing nothing and allowing the Cavs to steal a guy.

-- Steve --



The 1st big free agent the Knicks are going to sign is David Lee, reason why they don't want Amare and after that they would go for Tmac in a low rated contract and Joe Johnson. Leaving them to sign a center or a pg somewhere else

Blink
02-15-2010, 01:43 PM
If you're New York however, you still have enough room to snag another major FA even without renouncing your rights to Amare after the season. Also for the Knicks, it hurts even worse if Amare goes to Cleveland because if it happens, odds are even greater that Amare and Lebron are staying put. You just made the free agent class you've waited on for so long much more shallow by doing nothing and allowing the Cavs to steal a guy.

-- Steve --[/QUOTE]

I've had similar thoughts, you would think NY would do everything in its power to torpedo the Amare to CLE idea.

90'sNBARocked
02-15-2010, 01:47 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=777


Eric P in Naptown:
Good morning Bill, What moves do you see come to fruition for the Pacers at the trade deadline? Thanks
Bill Ingram:


There have been a ton of rumors, but nothing's close. Troy Murphy is getting alot of love, but no one's offering anything of real value in return. We'll see if Houston or Portland get more serious this week . . .they definitely have the most need in terms of front court help.

If this truly is the case I dont blame Bird for demanding more. We are not in this to help Cleveland/Sac/etc.

Its "Quid Pro Quo" or nothing

DgR
02-15-2010, 02:38 PM
We don't know anything, but the general consensus is that Phoenix is willing to take whatever Cleveland has on the table if nothing better comes along.

Nobody thinks they're going to keep Amare, because they think they'll lose him this summer for nothing.

But if they already knew Amare would leave them at the end of the year, and they're desperate to get value for him- why didn't they trade him last summer?
Doesn't make sense...

Shade
02-15-2010, 02:45 PM
:fingerscr

Unclebuck
02-15-2010, 02:45 PM
But if they already knew Amare would leave them at the end of the year, and they're desperate to get value for him- why didn't they trade him last summer?
Doesn't make sense...

I think they tried or at least there were a number of rumors that they tried to trade Amare during last summer

HC
02-15-2010, 03:10 PM
I think they tried or at least there were a number of rumors that they tried to trade Amare during last summer


Yes, in fact I am pretty sure I have heard his name come up in rumors for at least three years now. I know at least dating back to his surgery.

travmil
02-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Here's what's going to happen:

Cleveland says, let's trade for Amare on one condition. If he will resign here we will definitely pull the trigger on this. Trading for him does them no good if he won't resign, because they are trying to land that 2nd tier guy to pair with LeBron just like every other team is. So they ask Amare's agent, hey will your guy resign with us if we trade for him. The agent says we're not making a guarantee unless you have LeBron on board. Cleveland thinks back to the Carlos Boozer deal where he screwed them over after they took his word that he'd sign with them. So they go to Lebron and say hey, if we get Amare on board will you resign? LeBron says I'm not making any guarantees until AFTER the season. Cleveland sizes up the situation, decides it's not worth the risk of having BOTH Amare and LeBron walk and then trying to attract free agents to Cleveland, and promptly trades for Troy Murphy in the hopes that it's enough to get them a trophy before LeBron takes his act to the Knicks.
:fingerscr

How likely is that? I dunno, probably not very, but realistically I think it's the best we can hope for at the moment.

OakMoses
02-15-2010, 05:10 PM
Really, isn't saying Murphy is Plan B placing him a little too high on Cleveland's priority list? I'd guess they've been operating under the assumption that Murphy would be an easy get and a fall back plan if everything else falls through. In reality, he's probably plan E or F.

count55
02-15-2010, 05:34 PM
Really, isn't saying Murphy is Plan B placing him a little too high on Cleveland's priority list? I'd guess they've been operating under the assumption that Murphy would be an easy get and a fall back plan if everything else falls through. In reality, he's probably plan E or F.

ESPN Insider sent an e-mail that basically said the Pacers and Cavs had agreed to do the deal for Murphy if the Stoudemire deal fell apart. Sounds like a Plan B to me.

OakMoses
02-15-2010, 06:00 PM
ESPN Insider sent an e-mail that basically said the Pacers and Cavs had agreed to do the deal for Murphy if the Stoudemire deal fell apart. Sounds like a Plan B to me.

I'm just saying that every report we've heard out of Cleveland is that they're interested in Murphy if they can't get Jamison/Stoudamire/&c. I don't doubt that they'll trade for him if everyone else falls through, but starting out he was probably 4th or 5th on a list of guys they were looking into.

tikitomoka
02-15-2010, 06:12 PM
I can't see Phoenix agreeing to this deal whatsoever. imo all of the amare rumors are just hot air like they are every year

avoidingtheclowns
02-15-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm just saying that every report we've heard out of Cleveland is that they're interested in Murphy if they can't get Jamison/Stoudamire/&c. I don't doubt that they'll trade for him if everyone else falls through, but starting out he was probably 4th or 5th on a list of guys they were looking into.

Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

count55
02-15-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm just saying that every report we've heard out of Cleveland is that they're interested in Murphy if they can't get Jamison/Stoudamire/&c. I don't doubt that they'll trade for him if everyone else falls through, but starting out he was probably 4th or 5th on a list of guys they were looking into.

It's probably a moot point. I'm pretty sure that Cleveland's going to end up with Amare.

OakMoses
02-15-2010, 06:45 PM
It's probably a moot point. I'm pretty sure that Cleveland's going to end up with Amare.

I hope you're wrong.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2010, 06:54 PM
It's probably a moot point. I'm pretty sure that Cleveland's going to end up with Amare.


AND I hoping Amare doesn't fit if they pull off this trade. Amare was upset about sharing with Marion and couldn't work well later with Shaq, so why now all of a sudden is Amare the perfect fit? You have 3 players playing basically in the same area. The whole idea of Murphy is to stretch that area for James and Shaq. Amare isn't going to do that. I truly felt a SG like Butler was the best option for Cleveland.

d_c
02-15-2010, 07:06 PM
AND I hoping Amare doesn't fit if they pull off this trade. Amare was upset about sharing with Marion and couldn't work well later with Shaq, so why now all of a sudden is Amare the perfect fit? You have 3 players playing basically in the same area. The whole idea of Murphy is to stretch that area for James and Shaq. Amare isn't going to do that. I truly felt a SG like Butler was the best option for Cleveland.

Shaq now only plays about 20 minutes per game anyways. He'd be taken out of the game and Amare would play C against teams that would otherwise try to pick and roll Shaq to death.

And in the long run, Amare is the type of guy who would convince Lebron to stick around. I don't see Lebron sticking around just so he can play with Troy Murphy.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2010, 08:11 PM
Shaq now only plays about 20 minutes per game anyways. He'd be taken out of the game and Amare would play C against teams that would otherwise try to pick and roll Shaq to death.

And in the long run, Amare is the type of guy who would convince Lebron to stick around. I don't see Lebron sticking around just so he can play with Troy Murphy.


I don't see anyone sticking around to play with Murphy unless it's his brother Dunleavy.

Personally, I don't see Lebron staying in Cleveland.

kidneypuncher
02-15-2010, 08:17 PM
http://news-herald.com/articles/2010/02/15/sports/nh2098390.txt

Source: Stoudemire doesn't want to play in Cleveland


But the 6-foot-10, 249-pound Stoudemire has little desire of joining LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal on the Cavs, even if it meant bringing home an NBA championship.

One thing that could change Stoudemire's thought process, the source said, would be if the Cavs offered a contract extension. Stoudemire is supposedly seeking a three-year, $60 million extension.

Pacemaker
02-15-2010, 08:20 PM
http://news-herald.com/articles/2010/02/15/sports/nh2098390.txt

Source: Stoudemire doesn't want to play in Cleveland

WOW it looks as if Plan B is about to happen ... I'd personally prefer a deal with Sac for either Martin, Casspi or Thompson

LoneGranger33
02-15-2010, 08:23 PM
20 million per year!? Is he crazy!? Who does he think he is, Gilbert Arenas?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 08:23 PM
http://news-herald.com/articles/2010/02/15/sports/nh2098390.txt

Source: Stoudemire doesn't want to play in Cleveland

3year and 60mil?........:50cent:

Anthem
02-15-2010, 08:27 PM
Excellent! That puts the ball back in our court...

count55
02-15-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm not quite willing to put a lot of stock in that article until I see it from other sources.

pianoman
02-15-2010, 08:34 PM
Amare to the Cavs will not happen, no matter if this article is legit or not.

LoneGranger33
02-15-2010, 08:35 PM
Who would doubt the Northern Ohio News-Herald breaking this story? I feel like you just don't want to believe, Count.

Dr. Awesome
02-15-2010, 08:40 PM
Hickson will not be a star - he won't be as good as Tyler - he'll be a nice addition, but we need to be realistic about him. He won't look as good for the Pacers as he has for the Cavs playing with Lebron

I am a die-hard Tar Heel fan, I just went to the Legends game at the Dean Dome this weekend. Obviously, Tyler Hansbrough is one of my favorite players, but to say he will definitely be better than Hickson - an NC State player who I really don't like, is very premature. Hickson has a lot more potential than Hansbrough. Frankly, I won't be happy if Hansbrough is our long-term starter, I love the guy, and I think he would be a menace off the bench, whereas I see him just being an okay starter. Right now, Hansbrough is better than Hickson, but Hickson definitely has more potential.

Dr. Awesome
02-15-2010, 08:41 PM
WOW it looks as if Plan B is about to happen ... I'd personally prefer a deal with Sac for either Martin, Casspi or Thompson

If we are going to play the unrealistic game, why not just say Howard, Wade, or Paul?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 08:47 PM
If we are going to play the unrealistic game, why not just say Howard, Wade, or Paul?

how about Amare, Lebron and Brandon Roy? for Murphy and pick?

count55
02-15-2010, 08:49 PM
I think that story just got shot down.

From Twitter


1. Adrian Wojnarowski WojYahooNBA

Source close to Stoudemire says he's completely open to Cleveland, loves idea of playing with LBJ and has never indicated otherwise to Cavs. 1 minute ago from web

2. Brian Windhorst PDcavsinsider

Contrary to reports, sources say Amar'e Stoudemire has not told Cavs he doesn't want to play in Cleveland.

kidneypuncher
02-15-2010, 08:50 PM
Not sure why you guys are limiting yourself to current players and time periods. Jordan, Bill Russell and Teen wolf in their respective primes!

LoneGranger33
02-15-2010, 08:51 PM
Bob Finnan was lied to!

Shade
02-15-2010, 08:53 PM
I'm still not getting my hopes up.

SMosley21
02-15-2010, 08:55 PM
Can Thursday get here already?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 08:57 PM
I'm still not getting my hopes up.

don't get them to high, remember what happened last year to you when they traded Bayles for Rush........;)

Sookie
02-15-2010, 09:02 PM
I think that story just got shot down.

From Twitter

Perhaps he doesn't want to play with shaq (again)

Anthem
02-15-2010, 09:32 PM
I think that story just got shot down.

From Twitter
Crap.

Pacersfan46
02-15-2010, 09:35 PM
I still don't think there's anyway Phoenix takes this deal. This is one of those deals that doesn't even work on NBA Live.

-- Steve --

Smoothdave1
02-15-2010, 10:14 PM
Amare's motivation is definitely money. If a team, like Cleveland, were to offer an extension, he'll agree to any deal. He'd play on the moon if a team meets his salary demands. With that said, I still think Phoenix could pull a switcharoo and deal Amare elsewhere (like Miami or Philly).

Secondly, I would guess that the deal to Cleveland would include some picks -- a deal that the Pacers could not grab just for Troy.

BTW, I heard from a reliable source today that Bird was down in Florida over the All-Star break and Morway was back in Indy, but both were working the phones and were both pretty confident that a trade would get done this week. Take that for what it's worth.......

Naptown_Seth
02-15-2010, 10:21 PM
Hickson will not be a star - he won't be as good as Tyler - he'll be a nice addition, but we need to be realistic about him. He won't look as good for the Pacers as he has for the Cavs playing with Lebron
I'd rather have the pick if Booker really tracks near the start of round 2 in this draft, or Lace Dunn, Ndiaye (seems impossible he goes that late), or perhaps Poindexter.

Booker and Ndiaye are 100% certain impact power guys off the bench, Dunn and 'dexter give you a maybe SG flier. Hickson become less critical the second the Pacers draft a PF type with their top pick.

SMosley21
02-15-2010, 10:22 PM
Amare's motivation is definitely money. If a team, like Cleveland, were to offer an extension, he'll agree to any deal. He'd play on the moon if a team meets his salary demands. With that said, I still think Phoenix could pull a switcharoo and deal Amare elsewhere (like Miami or Philly).

Secondly, I would guess that the deal to Cleveland would include some picks -- a deal that the Pacers could not grab just for Troy.

BTW, I heard from a reliable source today that Bird was down in Florida over the All-Star break and Morway was back in Indy, but both were working the phones and were both pretty confident that a trade would get done this week. Take that for what it's worth.......

Why would Bird be in Florida while everyone else was in Dallas? Wait... nevermind that wouldn't surprise me at all.

ksuttonjr76
02-15-2010, 10:46 PM
http://news-herald.com/articles/2010/02/15/sports/nh2098390.txt

Source: Stoudemire doesn't want to play in Cleveland

That's some good weed.

DrFife
02-15-2010, 10:55 PM
Booker and Ndiaye are 100% certain impact power guys off the bench

Beware inner-ear infections. :crystalba

MLB007
02-15-2010, 11:05 PM
Option A is a pipe dream. It is one of those rare deals that happens because the team is so scared of not being able to resign him that they give him away for a bag of stale chips. The suns should just risk it and try to sign him over the summer. I know it gives them a lot of flexibility but it always takes them to a 20-30 win team.

The Murphy deal is more of a realistic trade. Losing murphy with no replacement is going to be tough. He does give us that nice 15 ppg. I wonder who is going to step up with those points.

You better worry about who is going to get any rebounds!!!
No Murphy, Foster, Hansbrough means we are going to get DESTROYED on the boards for the rest of the season. (IF it happens)

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 11:10 PM
Interestingly, Z hasn't been mentioned to be bought out. Do you think that CLE will make us buy him out, or do you think we can use him?

Next question: Would that be a good thing?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Interestingly, Z hasn't been mentioned to be bought out. Do you think that CLE will make us buy him out, or do you think we can use him?

Next question: Would that be a good thing?

I can't be mention, if the NBA smells that a team is doing that they could punish them and the deal would be dead

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, is CLE even going to make us buy him out?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 11:22 PM
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, is CLE even going to make us buy him out?

that is the point they can't make them

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 11:25 PM
Have we agreed to buy him out if this goes down?

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Have we agreed to buy him out if this goes down?

nobody knows for sure, Larry Bird is the kind of guy who maybe want to see him playing taking the back C up spot.

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 11:30 PM
But, how long would it be until we see him starting over Roy, thus making it a negative for the team?

travmil
02-15-2010, 11:50 PM
I don't think the LeBrons do the deal with the Pacers without a nudge and a wink ensuring Z will be back after the 30 day waiting period. The NBA just needs to stop the CIA cover up about this rule and allow teams to include it openly in deals. NBA writers and Sportscenter already talk about it like it's common knowledge. Even players talk about it which is how Stack got the Mavs in trouble a while back and they had to use a different player that they didn't want to lose for a month.

BRushWithDeath
02-16-2010, 12:02 AM
The Pacers have no use for Z. They'd happily buy him out and take the savings.

Thesterovic
02-16-2010, 12:04 AM
Exactly. I don't want to keep him here. He's a 7'3" version of Rasho.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 12:09 AM
The Pacers have no use for Z. They'd happily buy him out and take the savings.

we thought the same thing about Rasho and look what happened

Thesterovic
02-16-2010, 12:11 AM
We got a player that did not understand what a hard foul was, played the worst defense I have ever seen in my life, and took Roy, Josh, and Danny's minutes at the four.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 12:37 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4917483


Sources: Heat chasing StoudemireComment Email Print Share By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Archive
The Miami Heat have intensified their efforts to trump Cleveland in the chase for Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire, sources close to the situation said Monday.

The Heat emerged from the All-Star break even more determined than they were before to find a third team to help them broker an Amare deal before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline.

Miami is "coming hard" after Stoudemire, one source said.


Although the Heat have first-round picks available to sweeten any Stoudemire deal -- with the Suns hoping to come away with at least one first-rounder if they decide to trade Stoudemire this week -- sources say Phoenix has no interest in taking back Jermaine O'Neal's hefty expiring contract because, at $23 million, it requires more players to be worked into the deal than the Suns are comfortable with.

Yet one source insisted Monday night that the Suns have not ruled out taking back forward Michael Beasley as part of a Stoudemire deal. The Heat -- after carefully preserving their salary-cap space for months -- are suddenly pushing hard to make a big trade splash now if possible instead of waiting for free agency in July and gambling on the idea that they can lure a marquee name such as LeBron James or Chris Bosh to South Beach to flank Dwyane Wade.

The Cavaliers are prepared to send Zydrunas Ilgauskas' expiring contract, young power forward J.J. Hickson and perhaps draft considerations to the Suns for Stoudemire, who appeared to give Cleveland further motivation to make that bold move when he used his Twitter feed Monday night to scoff at speculation that he and Cavs center Shaquille O'Neal can't co-exist.

"You guys can stop saying we don't play well together," Stoudemire tweeted.

A pick from the perennially contending Cavs obviously wouldn't be as enticing as a Miami draft pick, but sources say that Cleveland also continues to chase longtime target Antawn Jamison in case Miami assembles a better deal for Stoudemire. It likewise remains to be seen whether Philadelphia decides to make Andre Iguodala available after making it clear before the All-Star break that they are not prepared to surrender Iguodala in a Stoudemire deal.


"They're the wild card," one source said of the Sixers.


The Cavs resume play Thursday at home against Denver riding a 13-game win streak, but they still hope to come away with a big player by week's end. While Stoudemire leads their list, the Cavs have also been mentioned in relation to Washington's Jamison and Indiana's Troy Murphy. Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday that the Cavs are also in talks with the Warriors about Corey Maggette.

The Suns, meanwhile, appear intent on finally finding a workable trade for Stoudemire before the deadline -- even though the sides did briefly discuss a contract extension during All-Star Weekend in Dallas -- after shopping him heavily at last season's trading deadline as well. Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds this season and started at center for the West in Sunday's All-Star Game.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 12:50 AM
20 million per year!? Is he crazy!? Who does he think he is, Gilbert Arenas?
Amare is on the same level as players like Granger, Iggy, Monta and Bosh.......IMHO.....all players that can ( if you squint real hard ) look like
"Batman".....a Franchise Level player ( assuming that he has a very strong Supporting Cast )....but is much better suited to be "Robin"....basically a very good "2nd fiddle" to a Franchise level player like Lebron, CP3, Kobe, Wade or Dwight.

And before you ask.....yes, I think that Granger would do a much better impression of Robin than his current impression of Batman.

travmil
02-16-2010, 12:55 AM
That would be sweet if Miami swept in there and got him. The Cavs would then try for Jamison one more time and be turned back yet again. I don't think the Wiz would trade him given that Arenas is done there, they just traded away a mainstay in Butler, and the prospect of rebuilding with Josh Howard as your main piece would be truly terrifying. If Miami got Amare I think that pretty much leaves the Cavs staring Bird in the face talking about Murph with no other options.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 12:56 AM
Who would doubt the Northern Ohio News-Herald breaking this story? I feel like you just don't want to believe, Count.
I will admit that I am as skeptical.....partly because we have seen Bird left at the proverbial "altar" when it comes to another trade ( thanks to the Rockets ) and because ( frankly ) when it comes to these type of trade scenario that benefits the Pacers....it never happens. Life for us Pacer fans suck.....we're just used to disappointment and we're getting ourselves mentally prepared for it.

count55, when you have the chance....pass me whatever you'll be drinking when we find out the Wizards cave and decide to trade Jamison to the Cavs.

:buddies::buddies:

pwee31
02-16-2010, 01:00 AM
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA



GM's and agents expect flurry of activity Tuesday. Everyone was holding deck close today, including PHX and Cavs. Best offers are on way.

pacergod2
02-16-2010, 01:24 AM
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA

# CLE had talks with Wiz on Antawn Jamison Monday, but didn't chat with Pacers on Troy Murphy, sources say. Indy has 4-5 suitors for Murphy. 8 minutes ago from web

This was his very next tweet about 10 minutes ago. He says "Indy has 4-5 suitors for Murphy". That makes me feel a hell of a lot better.

Pacersfan46
02-16-2010, 01:26 AM
I wish he'd say who those 4-5 teams are.

-- Steve --

Pacemaker
02-16-2010, 01:39 AM
From this update: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4917507&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines ..... it seems like Murphy is longer Plan B for the Cavs but rather Plan D ... :eek: But thats only my interpretation ...
Cavs Plan:
Plan A - Amare
Plan B - Jamison
Plan C - Maggette
Plan D -Murphy ... :censored:

Pig Nash
02-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Latest Amare Talk Retweeted by @BothTeamsPlayed and @RussBengtson

http://outtatownclowns.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/amare-stoudemire-trade-update-3-0/


Let me first start off by thanking each and every one of you 2,246 visitors that came by on Saturday afternoon to read my Amare Stoudemire trade update. I’m proud to say I was able to break the story and post new incoming details on the Amare trade discussions, 9 minutes before ESPN.com posted their news on their NBA Rumor Central page. So with new developments coming in through a few of my sources close to the information, why not do it again?!

The two hottest teams still in serious discussions involving Amare Stoudemire are the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Philadelphia 76ers. Talks are most serious in Cleveland, with the Cavaliers nearly in completion of a deal with Phoenix for Amare that could go down as early as in the next 24 hours sources tell me.

Cleveland Cavaliers

The biggest breaking news is regarding the Cleveland Cavaliers organization, the stakes have been raised, talks have made significant progress and there’s a new and improved offer on the table. One of my sources tells me Cleveland sent a proposal earlier this morning to Phoenix that included Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson, Danny Green and $1.7 million cash (that cash is included to offset the 1.7 million trade kicker Ilgauskas has in his contract) for Amare Stoudemire (no J-Rich). While Cleveland has sweetened the deal, the Suns reportedly were still not completely satisfied and sent a counter proposal back. The deal is now in the hands of the Cleveland Cavaliers with the Suns counter proposal including Cleveland’s 2010 first round pick in the package. A source told me Cleveland is seriously considering the Suns offer but is still a bit hesitant including their first round pick for the upcoming 2010 draft. This deal could be finalized and sent to commissioner David Stern as early as tomorrow if Cleveland is willing to include the 1st round pick.

Another source confirmed this new deal that is in the hands of Cleveland now, but also told me that Cleveland hasn’t given up hope on the possibility of doing a three-team trade involving the Philadelphia 76ers. I’m told the one major holdup in those three way discussions is that Philly isn’t interested unless they receive Hickson in the swap. Which makes a three-team trade very unlikely.

Philadelphia 76ers

While Philadelphia has also sweetened their deal with Phoenix during discussions held earlier today, the Suns have remained more interested in their talks with Cleveland. My source tells me that Philadelphia’s deal would send Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, and Lou Williams to Phoenix in exchange for Amare Stoudemire, Jason Richardson, and Leandro Barbosa. Sources tell me as much as the Suns love Iguodala they’re not really interested in talking back all that salary that included.

In Regards to Both Deals

All my sources have confirmed that both of these first deals are actual proposals but the Suns have also discussed a few other deals between the 76ers and Cavaliers. On a final note, while I’ve been in contact with multiple sources, but one source in particular surprised me by stating that something’s going to happen within the next 24 hours.

A Couple Side Notes:

-Take a scroll down some of Amare Stoudemire’s lastest tweets on his official Twitter page, he’s clearly distracted and fed up with all the trade talk. Just two hours ago, Amare himself tweeted this: “I play very well w/Shaq. I averaged more pts last year WITH him & played better D. You guys can stop saying we don’t play well together.”

The Suns reportedly offered Amare a two-year contract extension this weekend and Stoudemire declined the offer.

That’s the lastest here from the Outtatownclowns, be sure to stay tuned for all Amare Stoudemire trade news, because if any more details develop, we’ll be on it!

CableKC
02-16-2010, 02:26 AM
See....this is why I don't ever get my hopes up when it comes to moving Murphy to the Cavs.

If all the Suns are asking for is a Z+$$$+1st round pick+Hickson+Green deal for Amare+filler+2nd round pick...it makes more sense that this is the best deal that the Cavs could and should take. They don't really give up anything that they had any real commitment to. However, in all reality.....despite the cost to the 2010-2011 SalaryCap....if the sticking point is JRich ( something rumored earlier ), Z+Wally ( Signed to a new contract to make the #s work ) for Amare+JRich seems reasonable to me as the Cavs get the best Players out of the deal and only makes them a better team overall.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 02:33 AM
I wish he'd say who those 4-5 teams are.

-- Steve --
I'm gonna guess that ALL of them are low-ball offers of their Expiring Contract and/or garbage for Murphy. I'm okay with taking the best Salary Dump offer that we get....but I'm beginning to think that Bird wouldn't.

Lance George
02-16-2010, 02:41 AM
I wish he'd say who those 4-5 teams are.

-- Steve --

We know of three of them: Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Sacramento. I'm guessing Boston and San Antonio may be the other two based on other light rumors/speculation from the past week.

Major Cold
02-16-2010, 08:55 AM
Amare is on the same level as players like Granger, Iggy, Monta and Bosh.......IMHO.....all players that can ( if you squint real hard ) look like
"Batman".....a Franchise Level player ( assuming that he has a very strong Supporting Cast )....but is much better suited to be "Robin"....basically a very good "2nd fiddle" to a Franchise level player like Lebron, CP3, Kobe, Wade or Dwight.

And before you ask.....yes, I think that Granger would do a much better impression of Robin than his current impression of Batman.

So Robin was Batman's side kick. So Granger would be a Robin to Monta's Batman? I understand Superman does not have a side kick. L. Lane? I can see him in a skirt.

HC
02-16-2010, 09:24 AM
I will admit that I am as skeptical.....partly because we have seen Bird left at the proverbial "altar" when it comes to another trade ( thanks to the Rockets ) and because ( frankly ) when it comes to these type of trade scenario that benefits the Pacers....it never happens. Life for us Pacer fans suck.....we're just used to disappointment and we're getting ourselves mentally prepared for it.

count55, when you have the chance....pass me whatever you'll be drinking when we find out the Wizards cave and decide to trade Jamison to the Cavs.

:buddies::buddies:

I disagree somewhat. Sure the Pacers arent benefiting now from the moves being made, but at least moves are being made. The roster is not even recongnizable when compared to just two seasons ago. We just have to wait a little while longer to reap some of the rewards.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 09:40 AM
I am a die-hard Tar Heel fan, I just went to the Legends game at the Dean Dome this weekend. Obviously, Tyler Hansbrough is one of my favorite players, but to say he will definitely be better than Hickson - an NC State player who I really don't like, is very premature. Hickson has a lot more potential than Hansbrough. Frankly, I won't be happy if Hansbrough is our long-term starter, I love the guy, and I think he would be a menace off the bench, whereas I see him just being an okay starter. Right now, Hansbrough is better than Hickson, but Hickson definitely has more potential.

Hickson is a better athlete - no doubt about that. Hansbrough is much more skilled. Tyler has the skill of playing hard all the time a skill very few players have.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 09:48 AM
I know most of you think Vecsey is a nut - but here is his latest on this rumor. I do buy the theory that Murph is a better fit tham Amare is - Amare is the much better player , but for winning a championship this season Murph fits better.

I must ask the Pacers if they are nuts.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/rumors_with_view_e7I0E0f1xy8EGrzSyuL8AN/1


CAVALIERS: Murphy's rebounding and outpost accuracy makes him more appealing than Stoudemire and he's four years younger (30 in May) than Jamison. Hang-up is Pacers' demand for two first round picks aside from Zydrunas and Hickson.

If the Pacers can get Z and Hickson for Murphy I'll be thrilled, if they can get 1 draft pick I won't believe it, if they can get two first round draft picks......

Thesterovic
02-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Hickson is a better athlete - no doubt about that. Hansbrough is much more skilled. Tyler has the skill of playing hard all the time a skill very few players have.

The hustle and playing hard IS a skill. Not many people can match Hansbrough, Miller, Garnett, or Kobe's level of intensity and hustle.

count55
02-16-2010, 09:57 AM
I know most of you think Vecsey is a nut - but here is his latest on this rumor. I do buy the theory that Murph is a better fit tham Amare is - Amare is the much better player , but for winning a championship this season Murph fits better.

I must ask the Pacers if they are nuts.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/rumors_with_view_e7I0E0f1xy8EGrzSyuL8AN/1



If the Pacers can get Z and Hickson for Murphy I'll be thrilled, if they can get 1 draft pick I won't believe it, if they can get two first round draft picks......

This doesn't make a great deal of sense unless the Pacers have what they consider to be better offers (than Z & Hickson) for Murphy from other teams.

I actually think we'll deal Murphy, but I don't think it will be to Cleveland.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 10:00 AM
Even if Murphy isn't traded, I'm just shocked by the rumors of what we maybe could get in return for Troy.

rexnom
02-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Even if Murphy isn't traded, I'm just shocked by the rumors of what we maybe could get in return for Troy.
Agreed. Then again, I think we've been luck to have an artificially inflated market for him. A mitigating factor in all this is other contenders' wish to keep Murphy away from the Cavs, assuming he'd be a great feat there.

count55
02-16-2010, 10:08 AM
From Wells:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100216/SPORTS04/2160343/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-just-talking-for-now-as-trade-deadline-nears


The Indiana Pacers are making and receiving calls about forward Troy Murphy, but don't be surprised if Thursday's NBA trade deadline passes without them making a move.

and


The Pacers are looking for three things in a possible trade:

Expiring contracts.

A young player they believe fits into their future plans.

Draft picks.

It would seem foolish to me to keep Murphy, if you could get two of the three things above...particularly given the fact that it actually would not interfere with the 2011 plans...at all, IMO.

count55
02-16-2010, 10:13 AM
Even if Murphy isn't traded, I'm just shocked by the rumors of what we maybe could get in return for Troy.


Agreed. Then again, I think we've been luck to have an artificially inflated market for him. A mitigating factor in all this is other contenders' wish to keep Murphy away from the Cavs, assuming he'd be a great feat there.

The thing about Murphy is that he's as close to a "sure thing" as you get in the NBA. You know exactly what he can do, and exactly what he can't do. His contract has now become digestible, so there have become more teams that can confidently project what his addition will and won't mean.

As a player on the Pacers, what he does is of little value, but there are a number of teams where it would be a nice complement to what they already have.

I don't think it's so much a matter of other teams overvaluing Murphy, as it is that they can see a clear utility for his skills that we don't really have here.

Tom White
02-16-2010, 10:38 AM
BTW, I heard from a reliable source today that Bird was down in Florida over the All-Star break and Morway was back in Indy, but both were working the phones and were both pretty confident that a trade would get done this week. Take that for what it's worth.......

While most other exec's were in Dallas? What was Bird doing, checking out the golf courses? Hosting our next 2nd round euro-stiff on a tour of south beach?

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 10:43 AM
I don't believe this has been posted yet.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/as_amare_stoudemire_asserts_he.html


According to a source, the Cavs and Indiana Pacers have not progressed in talks for forward Troy Murphy since last week. Contrary to a Monday report in the Los Angeles Times, the Cavs do not have a deal in place for Murphy if the Stoudemire option falls though.

Though the Cavs made some progress from the initial Pacers demands a month ago, there is a belief that Indiana is still asking more than the Cavs are comfortable giving right now. That may be the demand for Hickson to be part of the deal but also could include draft picks.

The trade deadline is Thursday at 3 p.m.

IU_sears
02-16-2010, 10:44 AM
After all of the years of hearing people complain about Murphy's bloated contract it is time to strike while the iron is hot. It appears that Bird has polished a turd enough to get some value in return. If we let the trading deadline pass without moving this contract for value I fear we have made a huge mistake in the rebuilding process. The goal for the rest of the season should be to give the young guys plenty of run and win 10 games max the rest of the season. This will insure we get a solid lottery pick and valuable on job training for the young core Bird has put together. Hickson would have 30 or so games to get acclimated to his new role of taking more control of a team and banging with other NBA starters without LBJ and Shaq patrolling the paint for him. I feel Bird has played the trade market well so far, and if the Cavs do have Z, Hickson, and a pick out there, the time is now to make a move.

pianoman
02-16-2010, 10:49 AM
I do believe we are asking for Hickson, Z, AND 2 picks. There's no doubt Larry's trying to get as much as he can from Cleveland. I just don't understand why they are demanding 2 end of 1st round picks (more than likely) You take Z and Hickson and Run. You're getting cap relief, and youth. This thing would be over, and Murph would be a Cav if it wasn't for our demand of a pick or 2.

I'm expecting us to stand pat for now, and trade Murph in the offseason. We're all gonna laugh at this deal when we get a better one in the summer.

Tom White
02-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Even if Murphy isn't traded, I'm just shocked by the rumors of what we maybe could get in return for Troy.

But is it what we could get for him? Or is it what the Pacers are asking for, for him, with no takers (so far)?

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 10:59 AM
But is it what we could get for him? Or is it what the Pacers are asking for, for him, with no takers (so far)?

I'm surprised 4 or 5 teams are interested. There is enough out there in the media that it is clear to me that there is a lot of interest for Murphy. I figured a week ago maybe we could get Z for Murphy but nothing more

Hicks
02-16-2010, 11:08 AM
2 first round picks makes me balk at first, but then I remember we're talking the 29th pick and probably another 20-something pick.

Pacerized
02-16-2010, 11:13 AM
2 first round picks makes me balk at first, but then I remember we're talking the 29th pick and probably another 20-something pick.

Maybe not if Lebron leaves. That's why I'd rather take a gamble on the 2011 pick over Hickson.

Justin Tyme
02-16-2010, 11:16 AM
It would seem foolish to me to keep Murphy, if you could get two of the three things above...particularly given the fact that it actually would not interfere with the 2011 plans...at all, IMO.


That's the samethings the 76's wanted and GOT for AI, and we all know Murphy isn't AI. Like the old Meatloaf song said "2 out of 3 ain't bad." I'll truly be surprised come Thurs at 3PM that Murphy has been traded. I'll be surprised at all deal at all.

rexnom
02-16-2010, 11:20 AM
Consider how valuable a 2011 or 2012 Cleveland pick might be if LeBron leaves. It could be nice to have that instead of a 2010 one.

Justin Tyme
02-16-2010, 11:23 AM
I do believe we are asking for Hickson, Z, AND 2 picks. There's no doubt Larry's trying to get as much as he can from Cleveland. I just don't understand why they are demanding 2 end of 1st round picks (more than likely) You take Z and Hickson and Run. You're getting cap relief, and youth. This thing would be over, and Murph would be a Cav if it wasn't for our demand of a pick or 2.

I'm expecting us to stand pat for now, and trade Murph in the offseason. We're all gonna laugh at this deal when we get a better one in the summer.



Maybe Bird expects Lebron to leave after the season and a 011 or 012 pick would be worth more. Then maybe Cleveland fears the samething and don't want to give up the pick to rebuild.

Hicks
02-16-2010, 11:24 AM
Well, since you can't trade back to back 1st rounders, and presumably one of the two would the their 2010, it most likely would be the 2012 pick, which yes, could be significantly higher value.

Given that, maybe the final "settlement" is the Pacers agreeing to not ask for the 2012 pick.

Tom White
02-16-2010, 11:24 AM
Consider how valuable a 2011 or 2012 Cleveland pick might be if LeBron leaves. It could be nice to have that instead of a 2010 one.

James isn't going to leave Cleveland.

Why? MONEY!

Cleveland can offer him more MONEY than a new team could.

I don't care what he might say about winning a title, with guys like him and Amare, it comes down to MONEY.

Shade
02-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Are TPTB prepared to pay some luxury tax if they are unable to deal Troy, or do they have a back-up plan to dump salary in another deal?

I think 2 first-rounders is a bit much to ask, even if they are late in the round, and should not be a hold-up to this deal.

Shade
02-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Maybe not if Lebron leaves. That's why I'd rather take a gamble on the 2011 pick over Hickson.

I can't see why LeBron would want to leave. He plays for his hometown team which also currently has the best record in the league.

Shade
02-16-2010, 11:30 AM
James isn't going to leave Cleveland.

Why? MONEY!

Cleveland can offer him more MONEY than a new team could.

I don't care what he might say about winning a title, with guys like him and Amare, it comes down to MONEY.

While that's true, a big market like NY could offer him much more money through commercial incentives.

I guess it all depends on how greedy LeBron is.

Justin Tyme
02-16-2010, 11:35 AM
I can't see why LeBron would want to leave. He plays for his hometown team which also currently has the best record in the league.

Have you ever been to Cleveland? Believe me it doesn't compare with NYC. The NY media will lift LeBron to another level. Think Shaq and LA.

graphic-er
02-16-2010, 11:36 AM
Just trade him already!

I don't believe for one second that we will get a better offer over the summer, this is the time to strike! Teams are giving up young talent to make a decent playoff run. They wont give up young talent for Murphy in the summer. These deals will be gone by the summer time. The best you can hope for in the summer is a team who wants to shed their downtrodden star players because they fizzled in the playoffs or didn't make the playoffs at all, which usually means an over paid player.

diamonddave00
02-16-2010, 11:37 AM
I'd truly like to know what the other offers are? Seems Larry and David seem to believe an Expiring, Hickson and a #1 is not enough, just what the heck are others offering?

Looking from Pacers viewpoint they have in Murphy last years 2nd leading rebounder in the NBA , a PF who shot 3's in the top 5 last season with just 1 1/2 years left on his contract . Very interesting his value to others far exceeds his value here to most on the board.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 11:42 AM
Well, since you can't trade back to back 1st rounders, and presumably one of the two would the their 2010, it most likely would be the 2012 pick, which yes, could be significantly higher value.

Given that, maybe the final "settlement" is the Pacers agreeing to not ask for the 2012 pick.

I would certainly expect the Cavs to lottery protect the draft picks - or protect it in some way

Hicks
02-16-2010, 11:45 AM
While that's true, a big market like NY could offer him much more money through commercial incentives.

I guess it all depends on how greedy LeBron is.

Because we never see him in commercials now?

LeBron can fly anywhere he needs to for the day to shoot any commercial he wants.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Are TPTB prepared to pay some luxury tax if they are unable to deal Troy, or do they have a back-up plan to dump salary in another deal?

I think 2 first-rounders is a bit much to ask, even if they are late in the round, and should not be a hold-up to this deal.

Do we know if the Pacers are the team holding up the deal or the Cavs. Do we know if the Cavs are willing to trade Hickson and Z for Murphy. I'm just looking at who is to blame if the deal doesn't go through. We might not ever know. Is it the draft picks, is it Hickson, or do we know for sure the Cavs really want Murph as much as the reports indicate. There is a lot of lying and leaks to the press to try and help teams make other trades.

I fully expect Lebron to stay in Cleveland

count55
02-16-2010, 11:48 AM
Do we know if the Pacers are the team holding up the deal or the Cavs. Do we know if the Cavs are willing to trade Hickson and Z for Murphy. I'm just looking at who is to blame if the deal doesn't go through. We might not ever know. Is it the draft picks, is it Hickson, or do we know for sure the Cavs really want Murph as much as the reports indicate. There is a lot of lying and leaks to the press to try and help teams make other trades.


I think any deal with Cleveland is on hold pending resolution of the Amare situation. I think they would still try to get Amare, even if we said we'd ship Murph to them for Z, straight up.

Unclebuck
02-16-2010, 11:51 AM
I think any deal with Cleveland is on hold pending resolution of the Amare situation. I think they would still try to get Amare, even if we said we'd ship Murph to them for Z, straight up.

I agree with that. Amare IMO is just too good to pass up.

dustinpettit
02-16-2010, 12:00 PM
Chad Ford
ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

"Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting. Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O'Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy."

I like this option best so far. We get rid of a lot salary and gain a first round pick. Of course, we'd probably never see Shaq in a Pacers uni, but oh well. Picks and cap space = very appealing IMO.

Hicks
02-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Chad Ford
ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

"Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting. Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O'Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy."

I like this option best so far. We get rid of a lot salary and gain a first round pick. Of course, we'd probably never see Shaq in a Pacers uni, but oh well. Picks and cap space = very appealing IMO.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=50952

Shade
02-16-2010, 12:04 PM
Chad Ford
ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

"Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting. Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O'Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy."

I like this option best so far. We get rid of a lot salary and gain a first round pick. Of course, we'd probably never see Shaq in a Pacers uni, but oh well. Picks and cap space = very appealing IMO.

I don't like it. We give up two tradable assets next season for a single very-late first rounder? Pass.

Brad8888
02-16-2010, 12:13 PM
Chad Ford
ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

"Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting. Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O'Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy."

I like this option best so far. We get rid of a lot salary and gain a first round pick. Of course, we'd probably never see Shaq in a Pacers uni, but oh well. Picks and cap space = very appealing IMO.

Interesting. Chad Ford...it must be true...

Insisting that there are concerns about Stoudemire and Shaq together when Stoudemire himself says (per Twitter and other sources that have been posted elsewhere here) that he played his best when he and Shaq were together and that he has no problem with it and would actually like to go to Cleveland. Only way this can be true is if Shaq would be demanding a trade, which I just cannot see. Who wouldn't want to finish with LBJ, one of the best chances to get a ring during the rest of his career?

The Cavs also would have no incentive to trade Shaq unless it would be for a package including a young promising center, so I guess we could send Roy there as a part of the trade (not happening...none of it is that involves the "Stand Pat"cers).

Tom White
02-16-2010, 12:13 PM
While that's true, a big market like NY could offer him much more money through commercial incentives.

I guess it all depends on how greedy LeBron is.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that companies like Coca-Cola, McDonalds, GM, basically any HUGE NATIONAL COMPANY (or worldwide for that matter) do not already know about James? He is one of the best known athletes around. It doesn't matter where a guy like him plays, he already gets all the offers he could want.

Hi, this is Lebron James for MNB (Massive National Bank). When I signed my brand new, maximum contract with Cleveland, I decided I didn't want to let anyone but the biggest bank in the world handle my money. So I bank with MNB, and you should, too.

Or...

Hi, this is Lebron James of the Cleveland Cavs. You know, every time we play in NYC, I always like to go to (insert famous restaurant name here) for dinner. Sometimes I take my buddy Shaq. If they can satisfy our hunger, they can yours too.

What does it matter where he is? He is already world famous.

Speed
02-16-2010, 12:23 PM
At what point are you getting rid of enough contracts now, that you can be a player THIS summer, not next. Let's not debate the whole, a player wouldn't come to Indy deal. What I'm asking do you have to get rid of Murphy, Mike, and TJ for pure expirings....then you can offer say a Joe Johnson a max contract? Or a Carlos Boozer a decent one? Or is that just not a possibility?

McKeyFan
02-16-2010, 12:33 PM
I do believe we are asking for Hickson, Z, AND 2 picks. There's no doubt Larry's trying to get as much as he can from Cleveland. I just don't understand why they are demanding 2 end of 1st round picks (more than likely) You take Z and Hickson and Run. You're getting cap relief, and youth. This thing would be over, and Murph would be a Cav if it wasn't for our demand of a pick or 2.

I hear ya.

But what if this time next year we had the equivalent of Chalmers and Blair?

count55
02-16-2010, 12:34 PM
At what point are you getting rid of enough contracts now, that you can be a player THIS summer, not next. Let's not debate the whole, a player wouldn't come to Indy deal. What I'm asking do you have to get rid of Murphy, Mike, and TJ for pure expirings....then you can offer say a Joe Johnson a max contract? Or a Carlos Boozer a decent one? Or is that just not a possibility?

It's not a possibility. To offer a max contract, or a serious contract to Boozer, you'd have to clear $25-$30 million...probably closer to $30 million. I find it hard to believe that we're going to be able to move all three available contracts (Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy - Foster not movable due to injury) for expirings.

I think the smart thing to do is to accelerate one of the contracts that we were going to let expire anyway (not trade) to avoid the luxury tax next season.

Gamble1
02-16-2010, 12:49 PM
Hi, this is Lebron James of the Cleveland Cavs. You know, every time we play in NYC, I always like to go to (insert famous restaurant name here) for dinner. Sometimes I take my buddy Shaq. If they can satisfy our hunger, they can yours too.

What does it matter where he is? He is already world famous.

Which one sounds better. Hi, this is Lebron James from the Cavs or Hi this is Lebron James of the New York Knicks. Or how about this, This is King James of the Empire State here to sell you blah blah blah.

Do you think Kobe in Charlotte would have a been endorsed as much as Kobe of the LA Lakers? Lets been honest the team helps sell more and a storied franchise in the biggest media market around would boost everyone pocket books. Does he sell a lot now? Sure but could he sell more with a knicks Jersey on. Absolutely.

Population of Cleveland 2.0 mill and going down. Population of New York City 8.3 mill.

dustinpettit
02-16-2010, 12:49 PM
At what point are you getting rid of enough contracts now, that you can be a player THIS summer, not next. Let's not debate the whole, a player wouldn't come to Indy deal. What I'm asking do you have to get rid of Murphy, Mike, and TJ for pure expirings....then you can offer say a Joe Johnson a max contract? Or a Carlos Boozer a decent one? Or is that just not a possibility?

He would be nice.

Pacersfan46
02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
Which one sounds better. Hi, this is Lebron James from the Cavs or Hi this is Lebron James of the New York Knicks. Or how about this, This is King James of the Empire State here to sell you blah blah blah.

Do you think Kobe in Charlotte would have a been endorsed as much as Kobe of the LA Lakers? Lets been honest the team helps sell more and a storied franchise in the biggest media market around would boost everyone pocket books. Does he sell a lot now? Sure but could he sell more with a knicks Jersey on. Absolutely.

Population of Cleveland 2.0 mill and going down. Population of New York City 8.3 mill.

Why does the population of 1 city matter when you're selling to a world market now. Does the world population change when Lebron is seen in a New York jersey?

I have yet to see someone explain why it means more money to play in a bigger market anymore. Maybe it matters to mid range guys, like Granger possibly. Or maybe in the past it mattered, when the world was a bigger place. Do you think there's anyone interested in the NFL who hasn't seen Peyton Manning commercials?

-- Steve --

Gamble1
02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
At what point are you getting rid of enough contracts now, that you can be a player THIS summer, not next. Let's not debate the whole, a player wouldn't come to Indy deal. What I'm asking do you have to get rid of Murphy, Mike, and TJ for pure expirings....then you can offer say a Joe Johnson a max contract? Or a Carlos Boozer a decent one? Or is that just not a possibility?
Even if you got rid of all 3 big contracts this year I still do not think we have enough to offer a max deal. Remember the cap is going way down next year.

avoidingtheclowns
02-16-2010, 01:04 PM
Which one sounds better. Hi, this is Lebron James from the Cavs or Hi this is Lebron James of the New York Knicks. Or how about this, This is King James of the Empire State here to sell you blah blah blah.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Kobe in Charlotte would have a been endorsed as much as Kobe of the LA Lakers? Lets been honest the team helps sell more and a storied franchise in the biggest media market around would boost everyone pocket books. Does he sell a lot now? Sure but could he sell more with a knicks Jersey on. Absolutely.

Population of Cleveland 2.0 mill and going down. Population of New York City 8.3 mill.

If you're talking about Lebron hawking local auto dealerships, then yes I see your point. Because that's where the population of the two cities would matter. But I kind of doubt Lebron would be interested in those dealerships, and would stick to national and international campaigns. Nike could put an ad in Times Square with Lebron on it right now, and the name on his jersey wouldn't matter a bit.

As for Kobe, yes endorsements would have come. They have for Chris Paul since the team moved to Nawlins and previously endorsements were able to find Grandmama in a Charlotte Hornets uniform. Advertisers and companies find the charismatic superstars wherever they play.

Tom White
02-16-2010, 01:18 PM
Which one sounds better. Hi, this is Lebron James from the Cavs or Hi this is Lebron James of the New York Knicks. Or how about this, This is King James of the Empire State here to sell you blah blah blah.

Do you think Kobe in Charlotte would have a been endorsed as much as Kobe of the LA Lakers? Lets been honest the team helps sell more and a storied franchise in the biggest media market around would boost everyone pocket books. Does he sell a lot now? Sure but could he sell more with a knicks Jersey on. Absolutely.

Population of Cleveland 2.0 mill and going down. Population of New York City 8.3 mill.

Doesn't matter. The companies who can afford to pay either of them for endorsements are national companies (even though I used a restaurant as an example). The population of the US is the same regardless of where you live.

I'm sure some are thinking about Reggie, and thinking "Well, see, Reggie played in a smaller market, and didn't get the big endorsements.". Well, that's because Reggie, as much as we all liked him, was NOT a player on the level of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley etc. Heck, Ewing played for the Knicks, but how many commercials to you remember him doing? He gets more play in the Snickers commercial now, than he got doing commercials as a player.

It has much more to do with superstar (actual superstar) talent level and personality than location.

I'll use another example.

Kevin Durant.

Just how big a market is he in. That's right. Not big at all. But we've all seen him in commercials, right?

It might make a difference for second level guys who are more of a local hero, but not for the big guys.

Gamble1
02-16-2010, 01:19 PM
Why does the population of 1 city matter when you're selling to a world market now. Does the world population change when Lebron is seen in a New York jersey?

I have yet to see someone explain why it means more money to play in a bigger market anymore. Maybe in the past it mattered, when the world was a smaller place. Do you think there's anyone interested in the NFL who hasn't seen Peyton Manning commercials?

-- Steve --
Thats like saying that Lebron James has maxed out his marketability. To me he hasn't and the Cavs name hurts him there.

Edit: James would have gotten more money from Nike if he had moved to New York in his rookie contract. Companies do not put incentives like that if they didn't think it influeced their sales.

Hicks
02-16-2010, 01:24 PM
LeBron James is what sells. It doesn't matter which team he's on.

Pacersfan46
02-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Thats like saying that Lebron James has maxed out his marketability. To me he hasn't and the Cavs name hurts him there.

That's all I ever get out of anyone on this debate. Their opinion. Never a reasoning, or any facts to explain it.

I guess Peyton should bolt to play for the Jets or Giants. That would help him. It's done wonders for Eli, even after the Super Bowl I'd say Eli has benefited from his last name more than his team name.

-- Steve --

CableKC
02-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I disagree somewhat. Sure the Pacers arent benefiting now from the moves being made, but at least moves are being made. The roster is not even recongnizable when compared to just two seasons ago. We just have to wait a little while longer to reap some of the rewards.
I know....it's part of the 3 year plan. It's just that when you get left at the alter for ( what will appear to be ) a 2nd time.....where a potential groom decided to go with the prettier bride ( again )...you really begin to think that you're the ugly stepsister and start to question the parents that left you with bad "genes" that made you into the ugly Stepsister in the first place. ( I'm pretty sure there's some analogy in there somehere ) . :suicide4:

avoidingtheclowns
02-16-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm sure some are thinking about Reggie, and thinking "Well, see, Reggie played in a smaller market, and didn't get the big endorsements.". Well, that's because Reggie, as much as we all liked him, was NOT a player on the level of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley etc.

Reggie was never a salesman like David Harrison

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdKODCBH28I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdKODCBH28I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

CableKC
02-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Even if Murphy isn't traded, I'm just shocked by the rumors of what BIRD IS STILL ASKING FOR get in return for Troy.
Fixed.

Putting aside the whole "Bird has to get the most from the Pacers Trade Assets" arguments, looking at this objectively ( based off of all the "negatives" and "positives" that we all know about Murphy )....don't you think that this asking price is too high for him at this stage of the game?

I understand that this could be considered a "Let's start high and work our way down" trade offer.....but with 2 days left......where we are pretty much sticking with the same asking price.....isn't that going over the top for a Player like Murphy?

If this is in fact true, then ( like many of us suspected ) nothing will happen and Bird / FO is comfortable with keeping Murphy for another season.

OakMoses
02-16-2010, 01:39 PM
2 things:

1. I think we have a certain amount of time, which extends part way into next season, to clear some salary off the books before the luxury tax is a definite deal. Count can probably fill us in on the exact date. I know this is true, however, because it was the impetus for the Jazz trading Eric Maynor and Harpring and the Hornets making a couple of minor moves.

2. I know that we're in for the biggest offseason FA bonanza ever, but I'm very encouraged by the power of expiring contracts this deadline. If there's a reasonable chance that we can turn our 4 expirings into 2 Caron Butler/Richard Jefferson level players over the summer and at the deadline, it might be silly to trade them now unless we get some legit. offers.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 01:39 PM
From Wells:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100216/SPORTS04/2160343/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-just-talking-for-now-as-trade-deadline-nears



and



It would seem foolish to me to keep Murphy, if you could get two of the three things above...particularly given the fact that it actually would not interfere with the 2011 plans...at all, IMO.
That's what I'm thinking....the Pacers are asking for too much. I fear that we will do nothing and we will be back to the same argument that we had for Foster and Dunleavy a season or two ago.....we should have traded "X" Player when their value was at an all-time high.

Pacersfan46
02-16-2010, 01:55 PM
2 things:

1. I think we have a certain amount of time, which extends part way into next season, to clear some salary off the books before the luxury tax is a definite deal. Count can probably fill us in on the exact date. I know this is true, however, because it was the impetus for the Jazz trading Eric Maynor and Harpring and the Hornets making a couple of minor moves.

2. I know that we're in for the biggest offseason FA bonanza ever, but I'm very encouraged by the power of expiring contracts this deadline. If there's a reasonable chance that we can turn our 4 expirings into 2 Caron Butler/Richard Jefferson level players over the summer and at the deadline, it might be silly to trade them now unless we get some legit. offers.

1 - You're forgetting that the Jazz had to give away a promising player to save that money. You can only deal with teams under the salary cap at that time. You've backed yourself into a corner and you get screwed because of it.

2 - Next year the collective bargaining agreement negotiations will weigh heavily in the worth of expirings next year. It could be the same, or they could mean nothing. If the owners get the sense that contracts will no longer be guaranteed, or that players salaries will drop in a serious way ... they may not even care about expirings at that point.

-- Steve --

docpaul
02-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Due to luxury tax issues alone, I bet you $ that we will trade Murphy by the deadline, but it likely won't be with Cleveland. Supposedly there are 5-6 teams lined up to make a potential trade, so it seems likely that he's the guy.

For the same reasons, I'll bet that Washington has another trade up it's sleeve. There's no way in hell that they blow up their team with the Dallas trade, and still leave the team salary above the luxury tax line.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 01:59 PM
Reggie was never a salesman like David Harrison

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdKODCBH28I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdKODCBH28I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

he looks high to me

Tom White
02-16-2010, 02:12 PM
he looks high to me

:laugh: Really? Ya think?

MyFavMartin
02-16-2010, 02:15 PM
Due to luxury tax issues alone, I bet you $ that we will trade Murphy by the deadline, but it likely won't be with Cleveland. Supposedly there are 5-6 teams lined up to make a potential trade, so it seems likely that he's the guy.

For the same reasons, I'll bet that Washington has another trade up it's sleeve. There's no way in hell that they blow up their team with the Dallas trade, and still leave the team salary above the luxury tax line.

Rumor has it that there might be another deal involving Oberto to Dallas for a conditional 2nd to get WAS below the Luxury Tax. Not sure if it will be with Dallas, but WAS will try to find someone to take on salary (~$3 mil) for next to nothing.

MyFavMartin
02-16-2010, 02:16 PM
Hoopshype has the Camby trade going through, Miami showing interest in Stoudemire, and the Cavs inquiring about Maggette.

BPump33
02-16-2010, 02:19 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864

Simmy (Columbus, OH)


Assume the Cavs can't get Amare, what's the best backup trade between, Jamison, Maggette, Troy Murphy? Which is the most likely to happen?

Chad Ford (1:16 PM)


I think they would rank it 1. Jamison 2. Murphy 3. Maggette However, it's still unclear whether Jamison is available. And I can't understand why the Cavs would be interested in Maggette unless LeBron is telling them he's leaving and they are trying to replace him. That's not a good fit. So I'd probably go with Murphy. He's the stretch four they're looking for, has only one more year left on his contract and I do think the Pacers would take a package of Z and Hickson for him.
Kenny (Bourbon street, nola)


Chad, I'm dedicated to your chat. I'm writing in a question with my awful service here at mardi gras. What I want to know is: what's the latest on the pacers??? Any new Murphy info? Any possible smaller trades in the works?? Thanks, you're the best.

Chad Ford (1:19 PM)


Pacers waiting right now. Cavs, Bucks and Kings all have interest. All three can offer cap relief. I think it comes down to who will give up the best asset -- either a first round pick or a young player. Cavs have Hickson or a very late first round pick. Bucks have Ilyasova or a late lottery to mid first round pick. Kings could offer Donte Greene.

Speed
02-16-2010, 02:22 PM
I want Milwaukee's late lottery or early mid pick!!! I'd be really surprised if that is really on the table.

Gamble1
02-16-2010, 02:24 PM
It has much more to do with superstar (actual superstar) talent level and personality than location.


Without a doubt location is secondary but to make it out like it doesn't matter is wrong IMO.

Why else would Cleveland consider selling 15% to China?


If the purchase of the minority stake is approved, as expected, there is little doubt the straight-line connection to China will only help grow the LeBron brand in a marketplace countless American sports entities are trying to tap into. That would feed into James' well-chronicled desire to be a "global icon" -- without his having to leave his hometown team for a more glamorous franchise like the New York Knicks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=CavsChina-090601

Pacersfan46
02-16-2010, 02:27 PM
Without a doubt location is secondary but to make it out like it doesn't matter is wrong IMO.

Why else would Cleveland consider selling 15% to China?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=CavsChina-090601

Location has nothing to do with Cleveland selling a part of the team to Chinese investors, unless you think they're going to relocate to China or I missed something and part of this deal involved Cleveland moving .... it's just a reason now for Chinese people to have a more vested interest in Lebron and the Cavs as a whole ....

Actually it's just another reason location means less, really. They just tapped into a whole new market ... without moving. :hmm:

-- Steve --

90'sNBARocked
02-16-2010, 02:33 PM
I asked this cap question :

http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?chat_topics_id=770&status=Inactive


Eric P in Naptown:
Larry the "capologist" how are you? Could you please explain how trading Murphy this year helps the Pacers, and the difference betwen over the salary cap and the luxury tax. Thanks

Larry Coon:
Indiana isn't thinking about this year -- they're looking down the road. They aren't going anywhere with their squad the way it's built, and need to re-tool if they're going to make a serious run with Granger & Hibbert. Murphy is their best trade asset right now -- he makes $12 million next year, so Indiana could get some significant financial relief (although not enough to gain significant cap room unless they can also move someone like Dunleavy or Ford) along with a player or pick that will fit in with their rebuilding effort.

To put it simply, being over the cap just means you need to use an exception for any deal, which adds restrictions (such as the 125% salary matching requirement for a trade). Being over the tax threshold just means you're contributing to the league's informal revenue sharing plan. For competitive teams, the tax is the cost of doing business. For stupid teams....it's a tax for being stupid.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 02:34 PM
I want the Kings deal, maybe a 1st round pick or D green plus expiring. D Green is going to be nice

Tom White
02-16-2010, 02:43 PM
Without a doubt location is secondary but to make it out like it doesn't matter is wrong IMO.

Why else would Cleveland consider selling 15% to China?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=CavsChina-090601

First off, they weren't considering selling to China, but an investor group FROM China. Secondly, the article you linked to is from last July.

And thirdly, they aren't talking about moving the team there. We are talking about location, right? Or were we talkin' 'bout practice?

But anyway....

China probably has some investors with money burning a hole in their pockets right now. I would equate it to some years ago when the Japanese were buying up Manhattan skyscrapers and such. Remember how well that worked out?

Wonder what those Chinese guys would do if James bolted on them?

They may as well buy WalMart. Walmart is the biggest importer of their products, anyway.

Tell, you what. Let's just all blame this disagreement on Bender. He started this thread. :laugh: :D Yeah, that sounds good to me.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 02:45 PM
2 things:

1. I think we have a certain amount of time, which extends part way into next season, to clear some salary off the books before the luxury tax is a definite deal. Count can probably fill us in on the exact date. I know this is true, however, because it was the impetus for the Jazz trading Eric Maynor and Harpring and the Hornets making a couple of minor moves.
As you said, count55 would have to confirm.....but I doubt this is the case. It's either by this trade deadline or not.

The Jazz and Hornets moves could be done the season that they were over the LT because the trade took place with Teams that are under the Salary Cap which could absorb the full amount of the contracts that they were getting WITHOUT sending back a Contract but a Trade Exception. For example, they could not make the trade with the Pacers ( a Team over the Salary Cap ) because we'd have to send back a Player with a Contract...something the Hornets or Jazz would not want.

The problem with dealing with a Team that is under the Cap ( unless the Team REALLY wants the Player that we are peddling ) is that it cost them something......in the case of the Jazz a prospect..in the case of the Hornets ( I'm guessing you're referring to Rasual Butler ) a solid rotatonal Player for nothing.

That's the problem with the perceived value of the Expiring Contract.....they only hold "true" value that they hold is if the opposing Team really wants them and/or the Team holding the Expiring Contract is not over the LT and therefore does not have their back against the LT wall and is not forced to make a move. Add in the # of teams that have SalaryCap space to spend that would spend it on top Tier FAs as opposed to Murphy...and that makes it that much harder to move an Expiring Contract. IMHO.....our situation will be closer to the Jazz and Hornets situation this season...where we have to make a move or the Owners pay the LT....something that everyone knows the Simons want to avoid doing.

Of course, we can use our Expiring Contracts to make some move like the Mavs did for Caron Butler.....but even if we move Murphy....we'd still have over $24+ mil in Expiring Contracts in Ford/Dunleavy/Foster to play with. Dumping Murphy to clear 2010-2011 Salary Cap is not required now....but it's far more prudent to do so now as opposed to later. Doing so now will still allow the Pacers to try to make a "Caron Butler" type move later due to the other Expiring Contracts that we have while still allowing us to have some "breathing room" so that the Pacers won't be forced to do something that they shouldn't have to do.

count55
02-16-2010, 02:51 PM
From Wells twitter


@Wells222

cross milwaukee off the list for murphy, according to a source

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 02:54 PM
here is a good explanation by Chad Ford about the Cleveland Phoenix deal


Aron (Jacksonville, FL)


Please enlighten me as to why the Suns would want to trade Amare for J.J. Hickson and cap relief. Hickson's production is nothing special, and Lebron makes him look better than he really is (which is true of everybody on the Cavs). Are the Suns this desperate? Surely not...

Chad Ford (1:07 PM)


I've been wondering the same thing. Especially since we know Miami is in the mix. The best the Cavs can offer right now is Hickson plus their first round pick (which should be about No. 29 or No. 30). The Heat can offer the same cap relief as the Cavs plus they have Michael Beasley and they have two mid first round picks. How is that not a better deal for Phoenix? Even if they don't want Beasley, two first round picks from Miami is a better deal than Hickson. That's why I'm skeptical Cleveland makes this happen unless Steve Kerr is more interested in just helping out a friend or he's still bitter about the whole Shaq deal two February's ago.

danman
02-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Eh, location matters. Lebron would be more attractive to advertisers if he was a Knick. Hell, just the gear sales of his new Knick uni...

Other thing is, it's a helluva lot more convenient to do commercial shoots when you're in a town with the elites in the industry.

Finally, NY gives him a chance to make easy bank on "local" commercials. Hate to guess what he could make for a quick shoot with some NYC companies. 8.3 million does mean something.

However, the actual Knick team is a real thorn in the works.

I wouldn't be surprised if he stays a Cav, or goes to a great weather city. Anything he wants, really.

The extra bucks on a Cav contract are pretty small beans.

Speed
02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Swear this just happened, Dave asked Chad Ford if there was a chance the pacers would send Earl Watson to the Lakers for nothing, Chad said "yes"', then I refreshed and it disappeared. WTF? I had heard the rumor, but I was hoping to find out what "nothing" meant?

BPump33
02-16-2010, 03:00 PM
Swear this just happened, Dave asked Chad Ford if there was a chance the pacers would send Earl Watson to the Lakers for nothing, Chad said "yes"', then I refreshed and it disappeared. WTF? I had heard the rumor, but I was hoping to find out what "nothing" meant?

I did the same exact thing. I asked what "basically nothing" meant and I'm hoping it goes through before he stops.

McKeyFan
02-16-2010, 03:01 PM
I think any deal with Cleveland is on hold pending resolution of the Amare situation. I think they would still try to get Amare, even if we said we'd ship Murph to them for Z, straight up.

Perzactly.

And then, if Amare falls through, the Cavs can come back to us and take our panicky Z for Murph offer when we could have gotten Hixson and/or a pick.

Lance George
02-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Swear this just happened, Dave asked Chad Ford if there was a chance the pacers would send Earl Watson to the Lakers for nothing, Chad said "yes"', then I refreshed and it disappeared. WTF? I had heard the rumor, but I was hoping to find out what "nothing" meant?

The Lakers have a $2.5M trade exception, so I'm guessing that's the "nothing" they're referring to.

Midcoasted
02-16-2010, 03:06 PM
What was just said about Indiana and larry bird at the end of the hour on ESPN? I heard it but barely missed exactly what was said...

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 03:07 PM
here is the Milwaukee thing

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864


Gary (Simi Valley)


The Bucks have been linked to a number of guys: Ty Thomas, Murphy, etc. What do you predict from them?

Chad Ford (1:58 PM)


Murphy makes some sense there. But it sounds like again, Milwaukee doesn't want to give up anything to get him.

MyFavMartin
02-16-2010, 03:28 PM
Miami doesn't want JO's expiring because it would require an additional salary to be included with Amare.

My question is: when can a trade exception be generated? Can we trade Watson to Phoenix for a conditional 2nd rd pick, generating enough of a trade exception that would allow Phoenix to combine that with Watson, Amare and their $2.0 mil trade exception to take on JO?

Speed
02-16-2010, 03:29 PM
Miami doesn't want JO's expiring because it would require an additional salary to be included with Amare.

My question is: when can a trade exception be generated? Can we trade Watson to Phoenix for a conditional 2nd rd pick, generating enough of a trade exception that would allow Phoenix to combine that with Watson, Amare and their $2.0 mil trade exception to take on JO?

I ask this same thing like twice a year, I don't think you can use a trade exception combined with a player.

Pig Nash
02-16-2010, 03:29 PM
You can't combine trade exceptions with players.

Will Galen
02-16-2010, 03:37 PM
)....don't you think that this asking price is too high for him at this stage of the game?


It could just be that Bird really doesn't want to help Cleveland.

Lebron will probably remain with Cleveland and Troy is only 29 and could open things up for Lebron for years with his shooting. GM's have to look to the furture too. Of course a lot of you don't really care about that.

Myself I really don't want to do a Cleveland deal, I'm willing to wait until this Summer.

SMosley21
02-16-2010, 03:40 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64740/20100216/murphy_wont_be_dealt_to_bucks/

Looks like we can cross the Bucks off the list of trade partners.

Anthem
02-16-2010, 03:42 PM
I think the smart thing to do is to accelerate one of the contracts that we were going to let expire anyway (not trade) to avoid the luxury tax next season.
Agreed. Which is why if we don't make a deal, I'll consider this to be even more of a waste.

We don't have the option of not making a move this week.

Anthem
02-16-2010, 03:44 PM
I'd truly like to know what the other offers are? Seems Larry and David seem to believe an Expiring, Hickson and a #1 is not enough, just what the heck are others offering?
Agreed. If we're getting an offer that's more than that, forget about Z and take that offer immediately.

bulldog
02-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Fixed.

Putting aside the whole "Bird has to get the most from the Pacers Trade Assets" arguments, looking at this objectively ( based off of all the "negatives" and "positives" that we all know about Murphy )....don't you think that this asking price is too high for him at this stage of the game?

I understand that this could be considered a "Let's start high and work our way down" trade offer.....but with 2 days left......where we are pretty much sticking with the same asking price.....isn't that going over the top for a Player like Murphy?

You're getting all of this information second hand. NBA beat writers know this is an exciting time of year for NBA fans; there is tremendous pressure to get any scoop they can out there. But let's assume the information they're getting is mostly reliable. They're still listening to 50 different sources, getting timelines confused and passing along second-hand information as breaking news. It's extremely difficult to piece all of this information together into a cohesive story of what exactly is going through these teams heads.

I really wouldn't judge Bird's behavior based on two ESPN articles and a tweet. I think we're just gonna have to accept that we will never know how these negotiations went down, what offers were firmly on the table, and what Bird demanded.


Due to luxury tax issues alone, I bet you $ that we will trade Murphy by the deadline, but it likely won't be with Cleveland. Supposedly there are 5-6 teams lined up to make a potential trade, so it seems likely that he's the guy.

For the same reasons, I'll bet that Washington has another trade up it's sleeve. There's no way in hell that they blow up their team with the Dallas trade, and still leave the team salary above the luxury tax line.

Agreed. I think you can make a lot of correct predictions about trade deadline move just by looking at the luxury tax threshold.

wintermute
02-16-2010, 03:50 PM
i have a bad feeling that we only have crap offers, which is why we're willing to wait on cleveland. otherwise, a deal would have been done already, i think.

the other side of the coin is that perhaps we have a great offer on the table and are just waiting to see whether cleveland would top it. i don't feel this is very likely though...

Justin Tyme
02-16-2010, 03:55 PM
It could just be that Bird really doesn't want to help Cleveland.

Lebron will probably remain with Cleveland and Troy is only 29 and could open things up for Lebron for years with his shooting. GM's have to look to the furture too. Of course a lot of you don't really care about that.

Myself I really don't want to do a Cleveland deal, I'm willing to wait until this Summer.


I'm with you about doing a deal with the Cavs. I'd much rather do a deal with the Kings that involved Donte Greene and Sergio R., especially if Watson is moved to the Lakers.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 04:09 PM
It could just be that Bird really doesn't want to help Cleveland.
Unless the Simons specifically said this...even at the cost of paying the LT.....this would be shortsighted IMHO. If it came down to it....if helping the Cavs improve in the short term meant that the Pacers avoid paying the LT, then they do it....not because they want to....but because they have little choice.


Lebron will probably remain with Cleveland and Troy is only 29 and could open things up for Lebron for years with his shooting. GM's have to look to the furture too. Of course a lot of you don't really care about that.
I care about the future....but I'm realistic when it comes our immediate future.

Because of our financial situation for the next 1.5 seasons, IMHO ( as Seth suggests ) the Team won't have any real options to improve and/or rebuild the Team until the summer before the 2011-2012 season. Until then, we're limping our way to the finish line ( as in the end of the 2010-2011 season ).

You're correct that Murphy could open up the lane for the immediate future and therefore be a threat to the Pacers and/or any other Team. But his contract only lasts til the 2010-2011.....when we won't be contending. Even if Murphy were to decide to stay with the Cavs beyond his current contract....in the span of another 1.5 seasons....I'm thinking that Murphy starts to slide into "Brian Scalabrine" territory....IMHO.....he will only a mild threat to the Pacers at that point.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 04:20 PM
You're getting all of this information second hand. NBA beat writers know this is an exciting time of year for NBA fans; there is tremendous pressure to get any scoop they can out there. But let's assume the information they're getting is mostly reliable. They're still listening to 50 different sources, getting timelines confused and passing along second-hand information as breaking news. It's extremely difficult to piece all of this information together into a cohesive story of what exactly is going through these teams heads.

I really wouldn't judge Bird's behavior based on two ESPN articles and a tweet. I think we're just gonna have to accept that we will never know how these negotiations went down, what offers were firmly on the table, and what Bird demanded.
I know that we're all going off of "second hand" info. Whether Bird is actually asking for this much or not.....I'm just asking ( more as a generalized question )...do you think that Z+Hickson+2 first round picks is too much ( given what we know about Murphy...."warts and all" )?

CableKC
02-16-2010, 04:26 PM
Agreed. Which is why if we don't make a deal, I'll consider this to be even more of a waste.

We don't have the option of not making a move this week.
Technically, we do have the option to not make a move now. The problem ( as many of us have pointed out ) is that the likely cost of waiting until the 2010-2011 trade deadline ( next season ) will be high. We can ( of course ) hold onto the Expiring Contracts in hopes of getting a "Caron Butler" type trade.....but I'd argue that we have 3 other Players that total $24+ mil in Expiring Contracts to "gamble" with if we had that opportunity.

Will Galen
02-16-2010, 04:55 PM
Unless the Simons specifically said this...even at the cost of paying the LT.....this would be shortsighted IMHO. If it came down to it....if helping the Cavs improve in the short term meant that the Pacers avoid paying the LT, then they do it....not because they want to....but because they have little choice.

You're saying it's shortsighted and then using the 'if' word.

You're saying "if it came down to it." I agree if it came down to it. Then you say they do it if "they have little choice." If they have little choice, I agree with that too.

However, it's not close to coming down to it, and we do have a choice! We still have this Summer and even next deadline, so there is no good reason to help Cleveland, UNLESS WE GET A GOOD DEAL.

Basically we just disagree on this subject.

OakMoses
02-16-2010, 04:55 PM
I really doubt we'd send Watson to LA for nothing. He's worth at least a 2nd round pick.

It would make sense from a financial perspective. We're not winning anything this season, so why not save the million or so that we owe Watson for the rest of the season and give him a chance to go play for a decent team.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 05:12 PM
the thing is that the question was not asked the right way, any team in the NBA would want a guy like Watson "for nothing" and Chad Fords answer was yes ofcourse.

CableKC
02-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Basically we just disagree on this subject.
On this particular subject....I know we disagree here...that's why I didn't really push it. :buddies:

CableKC
02-16-2010, 05:23 PM
I really doubt we'd send Watson to LA for nothing. He's worth at least a 2nd round pick.

It would make sense from a financial perspective. We're not winning anything this season, so why not save the million or so that we owe Watson for the rest of the season and give him a chance to go play for a decent team.
I'd agree....but when it comes to the Lakers 2nd round pick ( some 59th or 60th pick )...we might as well go with some player on the D-League. ;)

Sookie
02-16-2010, 05:31 PM
I'd agree....but when it comes to the Lakers 2nd round pick ( some 59th or 60th pick )...we might as well go with some player on the D-League. ;)

We got A.J. at 52nd, Manu was picked 54th, I'm sure there are other examples.

I like Watson, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a ring..it's sort of like the "who deserves to get off the island" scenario. :laugh: He's not part of our future plans, but he's been good to the younger guys..let's save a little money and get him a good chance at a ring. :P

CableKC
02-16-2010, 05:48 PM
We got A.J. at 52nd, Manu was picked 54th, I'm sure there are other examples.

I like Watson, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a ring..it's sort of like the "who deserves to get off the island" scenario. :laugh: He's not part of our future plans, but he's been good to the younger guys..let's save a little money and get him a good chance at a ring. :P
Ehh....I guess it's a good thing for Watson to be shipped off to another Team for a chance at a ring. Whatever, not that it matters....hopefully, JO'B won't play Diener ahead of AJ :devil:

CableKC
02-16-2010, 05:58 PM
Not sure where I could post this, so I put it here. Anyone have ESPN Insider that can give some insight into this?

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=nba_draft&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dnba_draft


Trade Watch: Dealing draft picks
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 | Print Entry
Posted by Chad Ford on ESPN.com

We interrupt our weekly NBA draft Stock Watch in honor of the NBA trade deadline this week.


With a number of teams talking deals, draft picks become an important part of the equation. Some 2010 first-round picks already have switched hands.

There could be even more movement in the next few days. A number of teams have their draft picks in play in trade discussions.

Here's a look at picks that could be traded by Thursday's deadline.

Sookie
02-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Ehh....I guess it's a good thing for Watson to be shipped off to another Team for a chance at a ring. Whatever, not that it matters....hopefully, JO'B won't play Diener ahead of AJ :devil:

Yea...

the only problem with the TJ/AJ point guard rotation, is our perceptions of AJ will really be skewed just cause we compare him to TJ:laugh:

okay..I lied..that's not the only problem with TJ/AJ point guard rotation. I'd start with TJ at point guard as the first problem with the TJ/AJ point guard rotation.

Honestly, it would be smarter to see how that rotation could work. Because if it's..at the very least bearable...we don't want to be spending more money on another one year stop gap at point. And we dont' want to overpay for one either. If TJ/AJ can work, then that's more money saved. And then either we trade TJ at the deadline, and include an expiring backup PG in the deal, use Head at PG ect..or just wait until TJ expires, and find a PG then.

Point is, we can see now if TJ/AJ can be "workable" and that'll save money for next season.

Slick Pinkham
02-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Danny Ferry, Cleveland's GM, is having dinner tonight. Plan A is a juicy steak, but plan B is the White Castle drive-through. Somehow I think he finds a plan C, if A falls through!

CableKC
02-16-2010, 07:19 PM
Danny Ferry, Cleveland's GM, is having dinner tonight. Plan A is a juicy steak, but plan B is the White Castle drive-through. Somehow I think he finds a plan C, if A falls through!
Murphy isn't even a White Castle Cheeseburger....he's more like the Taco Bell 99 cent Bean Burrito on the Value menu. The mere fact that the Cavs are looking to the Wizards....and continuing to look for other options ( like the Warriors ) tells me that the Cavs looks at Murphy as the "ugly girl at the night club that no one wants to take home at the end of the night unless you were really drunk and really lonely". :laugh:

BlueNGold
02-16-2010, 07:28 PM
Murphy isn't even a White Castle Cheeseburger....he's more like the Taco Bell 99 cent Bean Burrito on the Value menu. The mere fact that the Cavs are looking to the Wizards....and continuing to look for other options ( like the Warriors ) tells me that the Cavs looks at Murphy as the "ugly girl at the night club that no one wants to take home at the end of the night unless you were really drunk and really lonely". :laugh:

I think you are over-rating him. The fresco bean burrito is pretty good. Actually, Taco Bell is fine dining compared to gut bombs.

Well, the end of the night is coming quickly and there are only so many options available. Hopefully the bar is stocked and the Cavs keep drinking. Perhaps Murphy's spray tan might help.

PaceBalls
02-16-2010, 08:22 PM
Yeah, Taco Bell is a huge step up from White Castle, which is actually rated as the most unhealthy food on Earth, so I guess that would be a compliment to Troy.

I'll have a diet coke along with a side of trans fat with my trans fat please!

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 08:27 PM
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1


here is a video with David Aldridge talking about the trades and possibilities

Lance George
02-16-2010, 08:35 PM
You can embed the video.

<object width="388" height="394" classid="clsid><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="movie" value="http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/swf/1.1/cvp/nba_embed_container.swf?context=nba&videoId=channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#000000" /><embed src="http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/swf/1.1/cvp/nba_embed_container.swf?context=nba&videoId=channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="388" wmode="transparent" height="394"></embed></object>

David Aldridge says he doesn't know if Phoenix is gonna do the Cleveland deal and that keeping Amare is a possibility.

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 08:37 PM
You can embed the video.

<object width="388" height="394" classid="clsid><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="movie" value="http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/swf/1.1/cvp/nba_embed_container.swf?context=nba&videoId=channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#000000" /><embed src="http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/swf/1.1/cvp/nba_embed_container.swf?context=nba&videoId=channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="388" wmode="transparent" height="394"></embed></object>

David Aldridge says he doesn't know if Phoenix is gonna do the Cleveland deal and that keeping Amare is a possibility.

can't see it for some reason:confused:

CableKC
02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
Yeah, Taco Bell is a huge step up from White Castle, which is actually rated as the most unhealthy food on Earth, so I guess that would be a compliment to Troy.

I'll have a diet coke along with a side of trans fat with my trans fat please!
Just to take this topic on a total tangent....I'm on the West Coast....so I have never tried a White Castle Cheeseburger....but would love to try one of these days....just to say that I've tried them. I've seen the Frozen White Castle Microwavable Cheeseburgers at the Grocery stores....but I'm guessing they aren't as good as the real thing. :drool:

Lance George
02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
Just as Amare to Cleveland dies down, Jamison to Cleveland heats up...

Adrian Wojnarowski (WojYahooNBA) on Twitter (http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA)


Cavs and Wiz seriously discussing package of Ilgauskas, Jamario Moon and No. 1 pick for Antawn Jamison and Mike James, sources tell Y!.
26 minutes ago from web


Wash may want a little more, but parameters for a potential deal are within reach with Cavs. Story with more detail soon to be posted on Y!
24 minutes ago from web


The Cavs are still talking with the Suns on an Amar'e deal, but they've gotten further down the road with Jamison, sources said.
23 minutes ago from web


Cavs-Wiz talks intensify for Antawn Jamison, Cleveland's private pause with making Amar'e deal and more: http://tinyurl.com/yb7m5nx
15 minutes ago from web

Sookie
02-16-2010, 08:52 PM
Honestly, Cavs probably want to give less for Murphy than we want to give.

I don't think the Wizards will give the Cavs anything.

Gamble1
02-16-2010, 08:54 PM
Just to take this topic on a total tangent....I'm on the West Coast....so I have never tried a White Castle Cheeseburger....but would love to try one of these days....just to say that I've tried them. I've seen the Frozen White Castle Microwavable Cheeseburgers at the Grocery stores....but I'm guessing they aren't as good as the real thing. :drool:
If you like steamed burgers then there the best around. My farther who lives in California makes a annual tradition out of eating a 10 pack of them when he comes in to town.

Personally 5 guys is worth the money for me.

PaceBalls
02-16-2010, 08:56 PM
Just to take this topic on a total tangent....I'm on the West Coast....so I have never tried a White Castle Cheeseburger....but would love to try one of these days....just to say that I've tried them. I've seen the Frozen White Castle Microwavable Cheeseburgers at the Grocery stores....but I'm guessing they aren't as good as the real thing. :drool:

The burgers aren't what's really really bad at White Castle, and if you are into fast food meat, they probably aren't too bad. It is the sides that will kill you. If you really want to experience the ultimate worst food available on the planet, try to get your hands on one of these:

White Castle Homestyle Onion Rings - Sack
Trans Fat: 30 grams

That is over 1 OZ of pure trans fat. :laugh:

link for reference http://www.acaloriecounter.com/fast-food-trans-fat.php

pwee31
02-16-2010, 09:02 PM
Murphy isn't going anywhere, nor is anyone else. Nobody wants our players. Only ones with value are Granger, Hibbert and Hansbrough. No one wants anybody else unless they get them for scraps.

That's just the way it is

vnzla81
02-16-2010, 09:03 PM
here is more trade talk from si.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/02/16/trade.deadline.roundtable/index.html

avoidingtheclowns
02-16-2010, 09:04 PM
Nobody wants our players. Only ones with value are Granger, Hibbert and Hansbrough.

Which teams want to trade for a PF with a case of the dizzies exactly?

count55
02-16-2010, 09:07 PM
Which teams want to trade for a PF with a case of the dizzies exactly?

The Jazz

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/4634348/Dizzy+Gillespie+dizzy.jpg

CableKC
02-16-2010, 09:09 PM
The burgers aren't what's really really bad at White Castle, and if you are into fast food meat, they probably aren't too bad. It is the sides that will kill you. If you really want to experience the ultimate worst food available on the planet, try to get your hands on one of these:

White Castle Homestyle Onion Rings - Sack
Trans Fat: 30 grams

That is over 1 OZ of pure trans fat. :laugh:

link for reference http://www.acaloriecounter.com/fast-food-trans-fat.php
Food that usually is bad for you usually is the best tasting. I also love Onion Rings.....:drool:.

For me, trying a White Castle burger is more of one of those things that I would want to say I've tried.

Naptown_Seth
02-16-2010, 10:42 PM
Excellent Count.

Sparhawk
02-16-2010, 11:03 PM
I hope a deal can be worked out with Sacramento. I'd like to get Martin and Thomson.

Just a couple of days till we find out if all the Pacers did was talk. I'm not too worried though if nothing happens this year. But if the Pacers can't get anything done with Murphy and Dunleavy's expirings next year, then we know there is something really wrong with Bird.

pwee31
02-17-2010, 02:24 AM
It's gotten really quiet on the Pacers front lately. Take it to mean whatever you want.

The Cavs front appears to be aiming for Amare and Jamison

The Bucks don't appear to be interested anymore according to Mike Wells

Looks like we just need to ride out the season!

On the bright side, next year's deadline should be VERY entertaining for us

CableKC
02-17-2010, 02:30 AM
It's gotten really quiet on the Pacers front lately. Take it to mean whatever you want.

The Cavs front appears to be aiming for Amare and Jamison

The Bucks don't appear to be interested anymore according to Mike Wells

Looks like we just need to ride out the season!

On the bright side, next year's deadline should be VERY entertaining for us
Great another season of mediocrity. :buddies: :suicide4:

Pacersfan46
02-17-2010, 02:51 AM
Great another season of mediocrity. :buddies: :suicide4:

Mediocrity?

I have a hard time calling this team mediocre. More like, abysmal. Or just plain bad.

-- Steve --

CableKC
02-17-2010, 03:07 AM
Mediocrity?

I have a hard time calling this team mediocre. More like, abysmal. Or just plain bad.

-- Steve --
Okay....fine.....another season of essentially doing nothing on the coat tails of JO'B and I'm gonna join ThunderDigest and then check back on PacersDigest during the summer of 2011-2012. Not that it would matter, I'd guess that we're going to do another MurphLeavy-type trade during the 2010 Trade Deadline and ruin whatever Capspace/Financial Flexibility that we have for the 2011-2012 season and continue riding this gravy-train of abysmal suckitude for another couple of seasons.

Wage
02-17-2010, 05:45 AM
Okay....fine.....another season of essentially doing nothing on the coat tails of JO'B and I'm gonna join ThunderDigest and then check back on PacersDigest during the summer of 2011-2012. Not that it would matter, I'd guess that we're going to do another MurphLeavy-type trade during the 2010 Trade Deadline and ruin whatever Capspace/Financial Flexibility that we have for the 2011-2012 season and continue riding this gravy-train of abysmal suckitude for another couple of seasons.

Which realistic trade was out there that was going to push us past being a bad team for next year? Is a bought out Z and either the 30th pick in the draft or Hickson going to vault us into contention?

CableKC
02-17-2010, 06:14 AM
Which realistic trade was out there that was going to push us past being a bad team for next year? Is a bought out Z and either the 30th pick in the draft or Hickson going to vault us into contention?
No, not contention.....we're not really going anywhere until the 2011-2012 season....aka the 3 year plan. It was all about Financial flexibility and getting under the 2010-2011 LT.

Getting Murphy's contract off the 2010-2011 Salary Cap would have not only gotten us below the likely 2010-2011 LT, it would have allowed the Pacers to make another Inferno-type trade in the offseason. If we got a Draft Pick ( instead of Hickson...which is my preference ), then we could have gotten another rotational prospect that could have helped. By going into the 2010-2011 season with Murphy's Contract and the rest of the Big 4 Contracts....we'll be very close to ( if not be over ) the 2010-2011 LT threshold. With little room to "manuever" when it comes to making ANY moves at all, we'd have ( essentially ) the same Team that we have now.

The way I look at it.....move any of the Big 4 now and we have some breathing room to make SOME change....no matter how minor. Not doing anything....we either won't be able to make any move...unless we make some trade that will ( more then likely ) eat into our 2011-2012 SalaryCap / Financial Flexiblity because we'd likely have to add some long-term contract ( which I do not want to do ).

Both paths lead to 2010-2011 mediocrity.....one just leads to "less" mediocrity while allowing for us to make major moves in the 2011-2012 Offseason ( and truly rebuild this Team the way the FO wants to )...while the other one IMHO allows for either continued mediocrity ( what we see now is what we will have next season ) and/or we make ( what I think would be ) another MurphLeavy-type of trade that will impact our long-term SalaryCap Flexibility.

This essentially boils down to the whole "it's okay if we stand pat cuz we can get more next trade deadline / TPTB have to move one of the Big 4 Contracts to improve our crappy 2010-2011 SalaryCap situation" argument....which I know many people would disagree with me on.

Wage
02-17-2010, 06:38 AM
No, not contention.....we're not really going anywhere until the 2011-2012 season....aka the 3 year plan. It was all about Financial flexibility and getting under the 2010-2011 LT.

Getting Murphy's contract off the 2010-2011 Salary Cap would have not only gotten us below the likely 2010-2011 LT, it would have allowed the Pacers to make another Inferno-type trade in the offseason. If we got a Draft Pick ( instead of Hickson...which is my preference ), then we could have gotten another rotational prospect that could have helped. By going into the 2010-2011 season with Murphy's Contract and the rest of the Big 4 Contracts....we'll be very close to ( if not be over ) the 2010-2011 LT threshold. With little room to "manuever" when it comes to making ANY moves at all, we'd have ( essentially ) the same Team that we have now.

The way I look at it.....move any of the Big 4 now and we have some breathing room to make SOME change....no matter how minor. Not doing anything....we either won't be able to make any move...unless we make some trade that will ( more then likely ) eat into our 2011-2012 SalaryCap / Financial Flexiblity because we'd likely have to add some long-term contract ( which I do not want to do ).

Both paths lead to 2010-2011 mediocrity.....one just leads to "less" mediocrity while allowing for us to make major moves in the 2011-2012 Offseason ( and truly rebuild this Team the way the FO wants to )...while the other one IMHO allows for either continued mediocrity ( what we see now is what we will have next season ) and/or we make ( what I think would be ) another MurphLeavy-type of trade that will impact our long-term SalaryCap Flexibility.

This essentially boils down to the whole "it's okay if we stand pat cuz we can get more next trade deadline / TPTB have to move one of the Big 4 Contracts to improve our crappy 2010-2011 SalaryCap situation" argument....which I know many people would disagree with me on.

I get where you are coming from. This has been a very disappointing season and next season appears to be more of the same. I just believe that next season is going to be rough no matter what we do this deadline, so I am resigned to our fate and really care less if we move Murphy for some pupu platter.

I just don't see how I can get excited about a late round pick that will be lucky to make the team, let alone a difference. As far as dumping Murphy's salary, cool for the owner's pocketbook I guess, but I have doubts that it will help us add an impact player before the next trade deadline comes.

So where you are getting frustrated over the possibility of not dumping Murphy, I guess I am just very "meh" either way. I wonder which is more depressing?

Unclebuck
02-17-2010, 09:15 AM
The same exact flow to things take place every trade deadline. Leading into the Allstar game (last Thursday or so) the rumors start, then things sort of go on hold over the weekend and then Tuesday morning the rumors explode - seems like there are going to be a number of trades, then Wednesday reality hits as clarification of the rumors is published and all the new rumors start to subside and then just a few trades do take place.

Happens every year

Major Cold
02-17-2010, 09:19 AM
This is why the league needs Isaiah Thomas. To pull the most ridiculous trades and keep the fans on their tows. I think LA Lakers need to do the league a favor and call him in to be their GM.

BillS
02-17-2010, 10:21 AM
Not making a move right now unless it is exactly what Bird wants is not going to hurt us. As has been said, those contracts look even better over the summer. Why throw them away for a bag of potato chips, even if so many people on here somehow have convinced themselves Murphy should be 15th man on a last-place team.

rexnom
02-17-2010, 10:27 AM
If Milwaukee and Cleveland are out, who's left in?

owl
02-17-2010, 10:29 AM
I think most people are just completely bored with the Pacers and this season. The real
interest for the rest of the season is what record they finish with and thus draft position.

Tom White
02-17-2010, 10:36 AM
David Aldridge says he doesn't know

Fixed for more honesty.

Unclebuck
02-17-2010, 10:36 AM
I think most people are just completely bored with the Pacers and this season. The real
interest for the rest of the season is what record they finish with and thus draft position.

Yeah I hear you. For me my two favorite players are out (Tyler & Jeff) so there isn't that much fun left this season. I hope Tyler can get back in a few weeks and get some experience before the season runs out.

MikeDC
02-17-2010, 10:44 AM
Not making a move right now unless it is exactly what Bird wants is not going to hurt us. As has been said, those contracts look even better over the summer. Why throw them away for a bag of potato chips, even if so many people on here somehow have convinced themselves Murphy should be 15th man on a last-place team.

If you look around the league, teams that want to shed salary are having a hard time unloading better players with better contracts than Murphy.

If indeed a deal was on the table, they should have not screwed around and struck while the iron was hot. Instead, they apparently sat around asking for the sun, moon, and stars, trying to get the same thing for Troy Freaking Murphy that's going to end up getting Amare Freaking Stoudemire.

I guess it's not over till its over, but I think it's more realistic to say Murphy couldn't be traded for a bag of potato chips today, but if we're lucking he will be this summer. Because unless we move someone (in a market where there are very few takers for our crummy players), the Pacers are going to be paying the luxury tax (that they can't afford to pay; at least that's what they say when they cry poverty and ask for handouts from us).

count55
02-17-2010, 10:49 AM
Not making a move right now unless it is exactly what Bird wants is not going to hurt us. As has been said, those contracts look even better over the summer. Why throw them away for a bag of potato chips, even if so many people on here somehow have convinced themselves Murphy should be 15th man on a last-place team.

Look, I clearly don't fall into the category in your last sentence.

However, I am far from confident that we won't get hurt by standing pat at this deadline.

First, I believe that standing pat virtually guarantees that we will have to pay the luxury tax next year. The only way to avoid it, in my opinion, is by packaging one of our young assets (Hibbert, picks, maybe Hansbrough or Rush, if they have value) with a contract like Ford's and getting back nothing.

I consider the Pacers' financial situation, and therefore, their future in the city, dire. I have not heard Herb Simon say he's willing to pay the tax next year (the party line has always been exactly the opposite), and I think with the continued horrendous attendance, that its payment would be incredibly onerous to the franchise.

If there is an offer on the table that will bring us under the threshold for next year without interfering with the 2011 plan (read: no Udrih or Bell), then I believe it would be irresponsible not to take it. If we can't get relief without kicking the can down the road (as we did with JO for TJ), then OK, sit tight. But if you can get Z straight up, or Kenny Thomas and a second rounder, then I think you have to take it.

Second, I'm far from convinced that we'll be in a position to really capitalize on the expiring contracts in trades next season. The teams that are doing so this year (Dallas, Cleveland) have solid foundations, both on the court and financially. They are able to "overpay" for second and third tier players, and still achieve their goals. We will not. In fact, doing deals like Dallas's or the rumored Cleveland deals (for either Jamison or Murphy), are far more likely to leave us in the same position we've been in since the Murphleavy trade, all over again, than they are to launch us into contention.

You'd even have to question what an Amare-type deal would do for us. We'd almost certainly have to throw Hibbert and a future first into any deal, and what player do you see being available that will catapult us from where we are now to where we want to be? It would have to be somebody much better than Amare or Boozer or the like. It would have to be Chris Paul or better. I don't see it happening.

Finally, I really have to question the wisdom of taking a lot of contracts going into the lockout. (I really don't expect there to be a 2011-2012 season at all.) In addition to lowering the % of revenue and the max number of years on contracts, one of the big demands the owners have is they want the existing contracts to be adjusted downward to the new expected CBA. I think this is the big demand that they're throwing out there that they're going to be willing to sacrifice.

I expect the owners to win most of their demands, so if we were to make deals similar to the ones at this deadline for second and third tier guys, then I fear we'd come out of the lockout saddled with two, three, or four contracts above the max for second tier guys like Danny, etal. We don't know what the hard cap would be, and we could end up in cap hell all over again.

There are a lot of things that can happen between now and 2011-2012, and most of them seem very bad to me, at the moment.

Unclebuck
02-17-2010, 10:54 AM
I expect the owners to win most of their demands, so if we were to make deals similar to the ones at this deadline for second and third tier guys, then I fear we'd come out of the lockout saddled with two, three, or four contracts above the max for second tier guys like Danny, etal. We don't know what the hard cap would be, and we could end up in cap hell all over again.




Excellent post.

As I was reading the paragraph I quoted, it got me to thinking. In the last CBA they allowed teams a 1 time opportunity to terminate a long term contract (I forget who the Pacers terminated) I remember the Knicks did it to Allen Houston - but I would expect something similar to that coming out of the next CBA - the teams certainly liked it and even the players liked it because it allowed them to change teams

count55
02-17-2010, 10:56 AM
Excellent post.

As I was reading the paragraph I quoted, it got me to thinking. In the last CBA they allowed teams a 1 time opportunity to terminate a long term contract (I forget who the Pacers terminated) I remember the Knicks did it to Allen Houston - but I would expect something similar to that coming out of the next CBA - the teams certainly liked it and even the players liked it because it allowed them to change teams

A lot depends on what happens with guaranteed contracts. I think the owners are really angling for an NFL-style setup with big signing bonuses on non-guaranteed contracts that effectively act as pre-arranged buy out amounts.

I don't see a hard cap working with the guaranteed contract structure that exists today.

(The Pacers cut Reggie...it was the year after he retired.)

MikeDC
02-17-2010, 10:56 AM
Excellent post.

As I was reading the paragraph I quoted, it got me to thinking. In the last CBA they allowed teams a 1 time opportunity to terminate a long term contract (I forget who the Pacers terminated) I remember the Knicks did it to Allen Houston - but I would expect something similar to that coming out of the next CBA - the teams certainly liked it and even the players liked it because it allowed them to change teams

That was the "Amnesty" provision. It didn't actually allow the team to end the contract (they still have to pay the money), it just didn't include the selected contract in luxury tax calculations.

So it's sort of a help, but for a financially strapped team, paying out salary to an unproductive player is a pretty big hit.

Tom White
02-17-2010, 11:01 AM
Look, I clearly don't fall into the category in your last sentence.

However, I am far from confident that we won't get hurt by standing pat at this deadline.

First, I believe that standing pat virtually guarantees that we will have to pay the luxury tax next year. The only way to avoid it, in my opinion, is by packaging one of our young assets (Hibbert, picks, maybe Hansbrough or Rush, if they have value) with a contract like Ford's and getting back nothing.



I agree with this. If none of the contracts are shed now, the Pacers may be sitting on the weak side of the bargaining table later. I can picture another team (this summer, or at the next trade deadline) saying to Bird "Let's see Larry, you guys are going to have to pay luxury tax if you don't deal with us. Well, we'll deal with you, but it is going to cost you talent to save tax money."

90'sNBARocked
02-17-2010, 11:14 AM
If you like steamed burgers then there the best around. My farther who lives in California makes a annual tradition out of eating a 10 pack of them when he comes in to town.

Personally 5 guys is worth the money for me.

Really?

I had 5 guys in Orlando and thought it was highly overrated, but maybe that was just the one I went too

90'sNBARocked
02-17-2010, 11:23 AM
Great another season of mediocrity. :buddies: :suicide4:

Oh but we have had injuries!

If we were healthy we could maybe win 38 games


How is Bird and Company still employed?

Shade
02-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Really?

I had 5 guys in Orlando and thought it was highly overrated, but maybe that was just the one I went too

I agree that 5 Guys is highly overrated. Hell, even Perkins burgers are better.

Speed
02-17-2010, 11:34 AM
I disagree, I don't think you make a deal to get rid of the only asset you currently have that other teams value and that you don't mind losing for nothing of on-court or future value. I don't think you have to, not yet anyway.

Also, if all of the gloom and doom stuff does happen, you can basically just let those expirings, well expire.

As for the luxury tax thing next year, the next 28 hours isn't the only chance to get under and Murphy being traded isn't the only way to do it.

As for the CBA, I wonder if additional revenue sharing will be part of it too or more importantly debt control for a large group of struggling franchises.

All I'm saying is I think Count, you are painting a picture that could happen, I just don't see it as the most likely, too many variables.

As for cap relief only move right now? Reeks of panic to me, but I would welcome it, if it's the only alternative to paying forward.

I just don't think you have to do it, with Murphy, right now, at least not yet.

Gamble1
02-17-2010, 11:50 AM
Really?

I had 5 guys in Orlando and thought it was highly overrated, but maybe that was just the one I went too
I am a big fan of loading up a burger so maybe thats why I like them over other burger joints.

In and out is over rated to me shade not 5 guys.

Onion twigs have to be the best addition to burgers in the last 15 years, IMO. :homerdrool:

cdash
02-17-2010, 11:54 AM
For the first time I can ever remember, I have almost completely lost any interest I have in the Pacers. The curmudgeons drove the common fans away, now poor management and losing is starting to wear on the die hards.

Anthem
02-17-2010, 12:17 PM
In the last CBA they allowed teams a 1 time opportunity to terminate a long term contract (I forget who the Pacers terminated) I remember the Knicks did it to Allen Houston - but I would expect something similar to that coming out of the next CBA - the teams certainly liked it and even the players liked it because it allowed them to change teams
Actually, the Knicks didn't use it on Houston, even though it was called the Allen Houston Rule. Houston ended up taking a medical buyout.

Justin Tyme
02-17-2010, 12:20 PM
How is Bird and Company still employed?


That's a question only Mr. Simon can answer!

Justin Tyme
02-17-2010, 12:28 PM
poor management and losing is starting to wear on the die hards.


Without a doubt. It's pretty bad when you check the box scores looking to see how certain other teams fared, but have no real interest in checking the Pacers.

Heck, even NJ won last night. They beat Charlotte for the 2nd time this year. :eek:

indygeezer
02-17-2010, 12:49 PM
For the first time I can ever remember, I have almost completely lost any interest I have in the Pacers. The curmudgeons drove the common fans away, now poor management and losing is starting to wear on the die hards.

Hold it buster. Care to explain what we had to do with that???

d_c
02-17-2010, 12:53 PM
Excellent post.

As I was reading the paragraph I quoted, it got me to thinking. In the last CBA they allowed teams a 1 time opportunity to terminate a long term contract (I forget who the Pacers terminated) I remember the Knicks did it to Allen Houston - but I would expect something similar to that coming out of the next CBA - the teams certainly liked it and even the players liked it because it allowed them to change teams

The "Allan Houston" rule was highly misinterpreted by fans and media. It only applied to teams that had to pay or potentially had to pay the luxury tax.

It allowed teams a one time opportunity (which has long since passed) to cut one player and not have his salary count against the luxury tax. But he would still have counted against the cap and the team would have still owed him his entire remaining contract. All it meant was that particular player's salary would have been removed from the dollar for dollar luxury tax calculation for whatever remaining years were left on his contract.

The Mavs used it to waive Michael Finley. I'm not sure who else used it, but it would have been useless to teams that were in no danger of paying the luxury tax. The irony of it all was that the Knicks never used the rule to waive Allan Houston. They kept him. Again, it had nothing to do with terminating a deal. The player was still paid in full and counted against the cap. That's a big reason players liked it.

danman
02-17-2010, 01:21 PM
Not making a move right now unless it is exactly what Bird wants is not going to hurt us. As has been said, those contracts look even better over the summer. Why throw them away for a bag of potato chips, even if so many people on here somehow have convinced themselves Murphy should be 15th man on a last-place team.

Ding! Murphy won't lose value unless he gets hurt. Now, the Simons may be justifiably excited about a deal that reduces payroll....

Any way you slice it, we got another year in Hades before Pluto unlocks the damn door.