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View Full Version : The first domino has fallen: Wizards/Mavericks trade done



Hicks
02-13-2010, 07:35 PM
Per Mark Stein on Twitter @STEIN_LINE_HQ



Mavs and Wizards have completed their trade call with the league office. Deal will be announced later tonight. Seven-player swap in the end




DAL gets Butler, Haywood and Stevenson as was always the case once teams agreed Friday. WASH gets Josh Howard, Gooden, Q. Ross and Singleton




In response to any suggestion out there that Haywood could have been held onto by Wiz: Mavs would never have done this deal without Haywood




Mavs were not going to just swap Josh Howard for Butler. Wiz gave Haywood up cause this deal allowed them to shed Stevenson and keep Jamison

Eindar
02-13-2010, 07:38 PM
If the Wiz did this essentially to keep Jamison, that would mean he's officially off the block now, right? Isn't this good news for the prospects of getting a good deal for Murphy?

Hicks
02-13-2010, 07:41 PM
If the Wiz did this essentially to keep Jamison, that would mean he's officially off the block now, right? Isn't this good news for the prospects of getting a good deal for Murphy?

Looks that way.

Anthem
02-13-2010, 07:43 PM
If the Wiz did this essentially to keep Jamison, that would mean he's officially off the block now, right?
It looks like their whole team is up for grabs, but with Jamison they have a valuable chip that they should be able to move pretty easily. Especially if Butler is an example of the going rate.

Hicks
02-13-2010, 07:44 PM
Mavs were not going to just swap Josh Howard for Butler. Wiz gave Haywood up cause this deal allowed them to shed Stevenson and keep Jamison


That seems fairly clear to me that he's staying put.

Pacemaker
02-13-2010, 07:45 PM
Looks that way.

May be not... perphaps CLE will go after Amare

Hicks
02-13-2010, 07:46 PM
May be not... perphaps CLE will go after Amare

The way I'm reading what Stein is saying is that WAS wants to keep Jamison. If that's true, then it doesn't matter what CLE wants.

Pacemaker
02-13-2010, 07:49 PM
The way I'm reading what Stein is saying is that WAS wants to keep Jamison. If that's true, then it doesn't matter what CLE wants.

Isn't CLE our best chance of trading Murphy ?? If they go after Amare we can forget about that.

daschysta
02-13-2010, 07:51 PM
they can "go after" amare all they want, Phoenix would have to be psychotic to accept the deal cleveland is supposedly offering.

Especially when it was reported that Golden State offered curry, biedrins and a first earlier on in the year.

Smoothdave1
02-13-2010, 07:52 PM
I would argue that it makes the Wizards less likely to trade Jamison unless they're blown away with an incredible offer by Cleveland. But given Washington's current state, who knows what they might do.

Unless Cleveland packages a ton of assets, I don't think they'll land Amare either. They'd need at least Z, Hickson, picks and maybe Green too and Phoenix may not even pull the trigger on that deal. I think Amare wants to return back to Florida and I think a deal with the Heat makes more sense for both teams.

That leaves the Pacers and Murphy. If Cleveland starts running out of options, maybe the Cavs, Bucks, Kings or another team gets into a bidding war with one another? If anything, I think this trade may help the Pacers a little.

count55
02-13-2010, 07:53 PM
That seems fairly clear to me that he's staying put.

stein's latest tweet

RT @BulletsForever: @STEIN_LINE_HQ Wait, wait, wait, the #Wizards are going to keep Jamison? (NOT NECESSARILY ... SEE NEXT TWEET)

count55
02-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Stein follow up:

STEIN_LINE_HQ

Now if Wiz move Jamison before Thursday -- as some folks around #NBA still expect -- they aren't as desperate financially and be choosier

avoidingtheclowns
02-13-2010, 07:58 PM
Antawn's a good dude and all but I can't understand why the Wizards would hold on to him. I have doubts that Gilbert's deal can be moved during the next year and a buyout would be ridiculous (in terms of holding their cap hostage for his remaining years). Moving Jamison is really the best option available at this point.

speakout4
02-13-2010, 08:00 PM
The way I'm reading what Stein is saying is that WAS wants to keep Jamison. If that's true, then it doesn't matter what CLE wants.
Trade Jamison and they may as well play to an empty fieldhouse for the rest of the season. Jamison is solely the face of the Wizards.
Cuban just pulled off the biggest steal of the season.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 08:08 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still don't want the Pacers to do that deal with Cleveland. Milwaukee? OK. Sacramento? OK. But not that Cleveland deal. I think a lot of people will wind up being disappointed with what the Pacers would get in that deal.

Pacemaker
02-13-2010, 08:12 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still don't want the Pacers to do that deal with Cleveland. Milwaukee? OK. Sacramento? OK. But not that Cleveland deal. I think a lot of people will wind up being disappointed with what the Pacers would get in that deal.

Which player would prefer coming in... Hickson, Ilyasova or Casspi ?

count55
02-13-2010, 08:16 PM
Which player would prefer coming in... Hickson, Ilyasova or Casspi ?

Let me put it this way

http://www.twitvid.com/3EBF2

LoneGranger33
02-13-2010, 08:17 PM
If those were the choices, I'd take Casspi ten times out of nine.

rexnom
02-13-2010, 08:18 PM
What a great deal for the Mavs. They really needed a Haywoode type. You kinda had to figure the financial crisis would help Cubes the most.

count55
02-13-2010, 08:20 PM
If those were the choices, I'd take Casspi ten times out of nine.

Unfortunately, it looks like we're only going to get that 10th chance.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 08:20 PM
Which player would prefer coming in... Hickson, Ilyasova or Casspi ?

It isn't that simple.

In a deal with either Milwaukee or Sacto, there will need to be other players included for salary purposes. I think we have a chance to add MORE than one productive player with either of those deals. With Cleveland, I think the main reason Hickson ever looks good is because of James. He isn't a consistant rebounder, his scoring comes primarily from James' alley-oops to him, and I don't see him as much of a defender.

count55
02-13-2010, 08:25 PM
It isn't that simple.

In a deal with either Milwaukee or Sacto, there will need to be other players included for salary purposes. I think we have a chance to add MORE than one productive player with either of those deals. With Cleveland, I think the main reason Hickson ever looks good is because of James. He isn't a consistant rebounder, his scoring comes primarily from James' alley-oops to him, and I don't see him as much of a defender.

Honestly, I think the best case, but still vaguely realistic scenario, would be Ilyasova/Ridnour/Gadz for Murph/Filler.

I think we'd have to take Gadz to get Ilyasova.

However, I can't be sure that Milwaukee isn't as attached to Turk Nowitzki as Cleveland is to Hickson. (In fact, that attachment would make a lot more sense to me than Cleveland's.)

vnzla81
02-13-2010, 09:50 PM
good deal for Dallas, I still think that this is not going to make them contenders, maybe third best team in the west. Kidd,Butler,Marion,Dirk, Haywood.

LoneGranger33
02-13-2010, 09:55 PM
Kidd-Butler-Marion-Nowitzki-Haywood. Not bad. Jim O'Brien could probably make the playoffs with that team.

I'm just glad All-Star weekend is upon us. The trade deadline is always pretty exciting, especially for fans of slumping teams.

mildlysane
02-13-2010, 09:58 PM
The rich get richer and we flounder in Basketball HELL. Let me guess...Cavs get Amare. Boston ends up with Jamison. LA probably picks up another All-Star. This is kinda stupid. It's starting to become not very fun to watch.

Pacersfan46
02-13-2010, 10:01 PM
Honestly, I think the best case, but still vaguely realistic scenario, would be Ilyasova/Ridnour/Gadz for Murph/Filler.

I think we'd have to take Gadz to get Ilyasova.

Then I'd do it. Gadzuric contract is up after next season, just like Murphy's. With Ridnour you're still cutting enough salary to stay under the tax next year, adding a young player, but not taking on any major salary for the summer of 2011.

Not seeing the problem here. :)

-- Steve --

IUfan4life
02-13-2010, 10:13 PM
don't expect dallas to be done yet. erica dampier i would expect to be moved

shags
02-13-2010, 10:21 PM
I think Washington got a $6,000,000 trade exception from this trade too. Here's the breakdown:

Acquired Howard and Singleton for Butler
Acquired Gooden for Stevenson
Acquired Ross for MSE
Traded Haywood for nothing = $6,000,000 trade exception, expiring in a year.

shags
02-13-2010, 10:26 PM
Kidd-Butler-Marion-Nowitzki-Haywood. Not bad. Jim O'Brien could probably make the playoffs with that team.

I'm just glad All-Star weekend is upon us. The trade deadline is always pretty exciting, especially for fans of slumping teams.

I'm thinking they may go Kidd-Terry-Marion-Nowitzki-Dampier, with Butler-Haywood-Barea-Beaubois off the bench.

I agree that Dallas will still be active, but they may wait to sign a vet whose bought out after the deadline.

jeffg-body
02-13-2010, 11:08 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still don't want the Pacers to do that deal with Cleveland. Milwaukee? OK. Sacramento? OK. But not that Cleveland deal. I think a lot of people will wind up being disappointed with what the Pacers would get in that deal.

I am right here with you man. I would rather do a deal with anyone else than Cleveland right now. You never give your division foes talent without them having to way overpay for that talent. If they want Murph, they better wine and dine TPTB and give us what we want. :devil:

esabyrn333
02-13-2010, 11:20 PM
I am right here with you man. I would rather do a deal with anyone else than Cleveland right now. You never give your division foes talent without them having to way overpay for that talent. If they want Murph, they better wine and dine TPTB and give us what we want. :devil:

Thats what I'm saying Cleveland just has an era about tham like we or team in teh league should just give them something. Personally I would love to deal with Sacramento. Thompson is the prize I'm salavating over Thompson, Martin, Beno for Murphy & Ford

jeffg-body
02-13-2010, 11:28 PM
I'd definitely do that trade. Getting Thompson and Martin would be great. I know we take on Udrich but we get to ship Ford off as well. Sign me up for this one.:cool:

IUfan4life
02-13-2010, 11:31 PM
I'd definitely do that trade. Getting Thompson and Martin would be great. I know we take on Udrich but we get to ship Ford off as well. Sign me up for this one.:cool:

what's wrong with beno?

esabyrn333
02-13-2010, 11:40 PM
what's wrong with beno?


People don't like his contract, I don't know much about his game. I do know he had a pretty good year last year I believe.

People don't like KMart because he is always hurt and has a big contract. I personally would love to have these guys KMart takes the work load off of Granger and lets him play more D.

Thompson is the guy I like the most a rebounding machine that plays in the post not at the 3 point line.

IUfan4life
02-13-2010, 11:52 PM
People don't like his contract, I don't know much about his game. I do know he had a pretty good year last year I believe.

People don't like KMart because he is always hurt and has a big contract. I personally would love to have these guys KMart takes the work load off of Granger and lets him play more D.

Thompson is the guy I like the most a rebounding machine that plays in the post not at the 3 point line.

makes sense, but if we were to acquire him he would be our best PG hands down

vnzla81
02-13-2010, 11:55 PM
makes sense, but if we were to acquire him he would be our best PG hands down

Im not sure about that, he is a back up pg and for the money he makes is to much

odeez
02-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Want Thompson!

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 12:01 AM
Thompson, Martin, Beno for Murphy & Ford

Never, ever ever, will this trade happen. I think it's possible to get Thompson, or Martin, but not both. Especially not for Ford.

This reeks of a Pacers fan having a wet dream. Nothing more.

-- Steve --

Sookie
02-14-2010, 12:26 AM
Im not sure about that, he is a back up pg and for the money he makes is to much

Exactly..as I've been saying..how many freaking backup PGs do you want.

And wouldn't it really make you sick..that your spending more money on Beno then you would have been spending on Jack.

The Pacers shouldn't take any huge contract unless they REALLY want the guy. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves back again.

Trader Joe
02-14-2010, 01:27 AM
Where exactly does Boston play Jamison if they pick him up? The three? He's not going to Boston, it has never made any sense as a destination for him. They would really screw up that team if they brought him in.

Trader Joe
02-14-2010, 01:28 AM
Also, I don't see anyway Butler doesn't start for the Mavs, he is immediately their third best player and a great compliment to Dirk and Kidd.

1984
02-14-2010, 01:28 AM
Where exactly does Boston play Jamison if they pick him up? The three? He's not going to Boston, it has never made any sense as a destination for him. They would really screw up that team if they brought him in.

That may be the observation of the night. Kudos.

PaceBalls
02-14-2010, 01:47 AM
Where exactly does Boston play Jamison if they pick him up? The three? He's not going to Boston, it has never made any sense as a destination for him. They would really screw up that team if they brought him in.

If they traded Ray, Paul could play SG and Jamison at SF.

Sookie
02-14-2010, 01:52 AM
If they traded Ray, Paul could play SG and Jamison at SF.

I still like the
TJ and Kmart to the Celtics, Ray to Indy, and Troy to Sac idea....come on Boston and Sac..you know you want to.

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 02:04 AM
I still like the
TJ and Kmart to the Celtics, Ray to Indy, and Troy to Sac idea....come on Boston and Sac..you know you want to.

That's just purely a salary dump. I'd rather get a young player worth keeping a while. If tacking Ford onto Murphy in a trade means we get nothing worthwhile long term, I'll pass on it. I'd rather trade Murphy alone and get a young player worth keeping.

As much as I would like to see Ford traded, he'll be gone next year regardless. He will also be a worthy trading piece next year, well his contract anyway. So not only are you getting NOTHING for Murphy ... you've now removed a trading piece worth something next year as well.

Double whammy. Just giving things away.

-- Steve --

Sookie
02-14-2010, 02:08 AM
That's just purely a salary dump. I'd rather get a young player worth keeping a while. If tacking Ford onto Murphy in a trade means we get nothing worthwhile long term, I'll pass on it. I'd rather trade Murphy alone and get a young player worth keeping.

As much as I would like to see Ford traded, he'll be gone next year regardless. He will also be a worthy trading piece next year, well his contract anyway. So not only are you getting NOTHING for Murphy ... you've now removed a trading piece worth something next year as well.

Double whammy. Just giving things away.

-- Steve --

It takes a huge chunk of money off the books, and gets rid of TJ and Troy. Get Sacremento to throw in a draft pick or something..but jeez, if we can get rid of both of them..

esabyrn333
02-14-2010, 02:16 AM
Never, ever ever, will this trade happen. I think it's possible to get Thompson, or Martin, but not both. Especially not for Ford.

This reeks of a Pacers fan having a wet dream. Nothing more.

-- Steve --

What if we put Rush in with it added our best 2nd round pick into it. Probably wouldn't happen but...

I try to not have that many dudes in my wet dreams maybe Thompson he could watch if the Pacers pulled a trade of for him :blush:

Pig Nash
02-14-2010, 02:20 AM
That's not sarcastic, that's just creepy.

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 02:30 AM
It takes a huge chunk of money off the books, and gets rid of TJ and Troy. Get Sacremento to throw in a draft pick or something..but jeez, if we can get rid of both of them..

But that's all you're accomplishing, is getting money off the books. A task that will be taken care of by next offseason anyway. It doesn't help the on the court product now, or in years going forward. The money coming off the books will happen anyway. Why ruin the potential of getting 2 trades involving some talent for 1 trade that nets you nothing? Sounds like hitting the panic button to me.

Let's just say hypothetically, we can get Illysova from Milwaukee from Murphy. Then next year trading TJ Ford nets us ... Ramon Sessions, or a equally mid level talent because he doesn't fit in the teams future and they don't want to pay his salary.

So in essence, because you panicked and just dumped salary, you passed on 2 guys who could have helped this team going forward. I don't see the benefit.

-- Steve --

rexnom
02-14-2010, 02:39 AM
The rich get richer and we flounder in Basketball HELL. Let me guess...Cavs get Amare. Boston ends up with Jamison. LA probably picks up another All-Star. This is kinda stupid. It's starting to become not very fun to watch.
I actually love this. SO exciting. Not only does this make the Mavs better and WC contenders but Washington is now officially a player in the 2010 FA market.

jeffg-body
02-14-2010, 02:46 AM
what's wrong with beno?

I don't like his contract, but I do like it better than TJ's. So I don't dislike him as a player, but the contract makes me weary on the business end. He would be the wild card here. If he comes in and plays well I'd be happy.:angel:

rexnom
02-14-2010, 03:10 AM
So if we assume Josh Howard's value is as an expiring, what does that tell us about Troy Murphy's possible value next year? Does he have extra value this year as just an asset? Do we have enough expirings next year to not worry about Troy (i.e. TJ and Mike)?

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 03:21 AM
So if we assume Josh Howard's value is as an expiring, what does that tell us about Troy Murphy's possible value next year? Does he have extra value this year as just an asset? Do we have enough expirings next year to not worry about Troy (i.e. TJ and Mike)?

I'm not sure, and I don't think anyone can claim to. Keep in mind the collective bargaining agreement dispute. I think that will have the biggest effect on the value of expiring contracts next year.

If there's a hard cap and already inked contracts get reduced, expiring contracts may lose their luster. Especially if contracts suddenly become non guaranteed anyway.

It's a crap shoot.

-- Steve --

Pig Nash
02-14-2010, 03:25 AM
That's why I'd rather do something this year. We still don't know what will happen with the CBA but it's better for expirings now than if we know something next year that makes expiring contracts not so big a deal.

Trader Joe
02-14-2010, 04:07 AM
If they traded Ray, Paul could play SG and Jamison at SF.

And if they think Jamison has a snowball's chance in hell of guarding Lebron they are absolutely insane. Jamison can't play the three on the defensive end and you would think a team that won a title because of their defense would realize this, I'm not saying they can stop Lebron right now, but how exactly does this improve their team?

At best it's a lateral move, and lateral moves or trades just for the sake of making a trade are the first step to mediocrity in sports, Boston needs to be very careful, picking up Jamison makes absolutely no sense for them IMO.

mildlysane
02-14-2010, 10:21 AM
I actually love this. SO exciting. Not only does this make the Mavs better and WC contenders but Washington is now officially a player in the 2010 FA market.
From a fan of the NBA's perspective, I can see your point of view. But on the other hand, doesn't it annoy you at least a little that the team you root for will probably never be in the position to easily obtain and collect All-star level talent like some people collect stamps? Everyone of the contenders are completely loaded with talent, and they are even collecting MORE for the playoffs. NO WAY we can compete with that...even with capspace in couple of years. Sorry to be pessimistic, but the light at the end of the tunnel is rapidly dimming for the Pacers.

Thesterovic
02-14-2010, 11:07 AM
From a fan of the NBA's perspective, I can see your point of view. But on the other hand, doesn't it annoy you at least a little that the team you root for will probably never be in the position to easily obtain and collect All-star level talent like some people collect stamps? Everyone of the contenders are completely loaded with talent, and they are even collecting MORE for the playoffs. NO WAY we can compete with that...even with capspace in couple of years. Sorry to be pessimistic, but the light at the end of the tunnel is rapidly dimming for the Pacers.

There's a reason why LA, Boston, San Antonio, and Dallas stay on top year after year. They have the best General Managers in the league. They don't overpay anyone in the league, thus having more money to do trades like the Butler trade. They draft well, adding more pieces, get good 2nd round prospects for trading chips, they do everything right. Most importantly, they don't give into foolish temptations such as Jamison to Boston. There is no way Ainge wants Jamison. He is way overpaid, and even though he is still very productive, his days are numbered in the league now. Ainge is too smart to do that deal, because then they'd be stuck with him for the next two years. They keep things simple, like trading a 2nd, young player, and role player for a very good player like SA did with Richard Jefferson (Which for whatever reason hasn't panned out.)

But it's deffinently not coincidence as to why these teams are always good.

sportfireman
02-14-2010, 11:11 AM
From a fan of the NBA's perspective, I can see your point of view. But on the other hand, doesn't it annoy you at least a little that the team you root for will probably never be in the position to easily obtain and collect All-star level talent like some people collect stamps? Everyone of the contenders are completely loaded with talent, and they are even collecting MORE for the playoffs. NO WAY we can compete with that...even with capspace in couple of years. Sorry to be pessimistic, but the light at the end of the tunnel is rapidly dimming for the Pacers.

yeah because the tunnel is getting longer by the day..........:cry:

geetee
02-14-2010, 02:16 PM
When you have a shot at getting to the finals, good GM or not, you will always have more options to land top players. Cleveland did not have this opportunity prior to drafting Lebron.

Thesterovic
02-14-2010, 02:56 PM
When you have a shot at getting to the finals, good GM or not, you will always have more options to land top players. Cleveland did not have this opportunity prior to drafting Lebron.

When you have a shot at getting to the finals, chances are that you are no slouch at being a GM. So yeah, in that case they have more options to land top players because the good GMs know what they're doing.

owl
02-14-2010, 06:42 PM
Duncan,Kobe,Lebron and Nowitzki could make most any GM look great. The really good
GM's get to the finals without the superstar crutch.

Thesterovic
02-14-2010, 08:35 PM
Duncan,Kobe,Lebron and Nowitzki could make most any GM look great. The really good
GM's get to the finals without the superstar crutch.

Kobe was brought to LA by a trade.

I never said Cleveland had good management. The Shaq trade will bite them in the butt, just like the Delonte acquisition is now.

Dirk was brought to Dallas by a trade.

I wouldn't necessarily say that SA needs a crutch. Especially when the players are so good around him. Timmy just does his thing.

idioteque
02-14-2010, 08:42 PM
I really can't see the Wizards as big players in the 2010 market.

I live 5 minutes away from the Verizon Center, and I can tell you that no one in this town gives a damn about the Wizards. Historically they are not a winning franchise.

There are a lot of rumors that the Wizards have been losing a ton of money over the years, and that they only stayed in Washington out of the grace of the recently deceased owner Abe Pollin, who loved the city Washington DC and did a ton of things for it.

I just don't see it. Wizards are trying to cut payroll now but I don't think this will result in big spending in the future.

MyFavMartin
02-14-2010, 08:49 PM
I'm feeling for the Wiz fans. They're potentially up for sale soon to the Washington Capitals owner.

With a high draft pick, I was hoping to see a really good player added to the core of Arenas/Butler/Jamison and a resigned Haywood.

There's a lot of options entertainment-wise in DC. Obviously, winning would really help and unfortunately injuries and now the Arenas suspension has really set back that franchise.

MyFavMartin
02-14-2010, 08:51 PM
Interestingly, hoopshype has already updated their salary info despite no offical announcement.