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90'sNBARocked
02-13-2010, 12:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4910377


The Plain Dealer is reporting the Cleveland Cavaliers are in negotiations to acquire Suns All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire.

Citing multiple league sources, the report confirms a meeting between Cavs general manager Danny Ferry and Suns GM Steve Kerr Friday afternoon in Dallas.

According to the paper, sources indicated the Cavs and Suns have been discussing a deal involving the five-time All-Star for nearly a month.

The two teams have collaborated on deals before, including a trade that sent Shaquille O'Neal to Cleveland in the summer of 2009




Oh man, why does every other team seem to always swoop in and fk us up!

Last year it was Rafer Alston, at the last minute stopping us from trading
Tinsley, now this


Stoudamire and LeBron on the same team :eek::eek::-o

jeffg-body
02-13-2010, 12:40 PM
I'd rather see us do a trade with someone else anyway. Trading with division foes usually turns out bad. Personally I would rather see them do a deal with Sacramento than any of the Eastern Conference.

Shade
02-13-2010, 12:42 PM
But what would the Cavs have to give up to make this happen?

90'sNBARocked
02-13-2010, 12:45 PM
But what would the Cavs have to give up to make this happen?

combination of Big Z's contract, Hickson and picks

I currently live in Phoenix and listen to the sports radio shows out here

If this happens the Suns fans are going to go ballistic!!

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Why in Phoenix' right mind would they give Stoudamire up like that if they could get multiple very good players and picks from another team?

This smells fishy. As well as the fact that Cleveland would be sad defensively, to say the least. Amare Stoudamire is Troy Murphy bad at defense.

odeez
02-13-2010, 12:52 PM
No question Amare would be a great pick-up, not sure I see it going through though! Sounds too good to be true for Cleveland. This is how it goes every trade deadline, crazy rumors!

I just hope we can work somekind of deal, we Pacer fans need it bad. Troy, Dun, and Ford wil continue to hold value going into the last year of their deals, but I would love something to happen now. I/We need something to have hope for!

spreedom
02-13-2010, 12:53 PM
Word I've been hearing is that the Cavs would sign and trade Wally Szczerbiak in the deal along with Hickson and perhaps one other player/pick. I think Amare is definitely going to bolt from Phoenix, so they may see it as a chance to at least get something of value in return for him.

Does he really make Cleveland that much better though? Sure he puts another offensive player out there next to LeBron, but they still won't be able to defend at the rim or against the pick and roll. Considering how good of an athlete Amare is, it's extremely disappointing to see how little effort he puts in on the defensive side of the call. Complete knucklehead.

Trophy
02-13-2010, 12:57 PM
Same things as over the summer.

Amare is going no where!

Pacersfan46
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
Ahhhh, rumors that start in Cleveland, and it died in Cleveland.

They have nothing remotely close to what it would take to get Amare without giving up Lebron. Hickson + picks that are 25+ in the first round? Puh-lease. If that was the asking price he'd already be wearing any one of 28 other teams uniforms.

This is nothing more than a Cleveland writer trying to position the Cavs to make the Pacers/Wizards squirm, and maybe panic.

-- Steve --

LoneGranger33
02-13-2010, 02:09 PM
I don't think Amare makes Cleveland better.

PR07
02-13-2010, 02:13 PM
So now they have Amare and Shaq to clog up the paint for LeBron? It didn't work with Phoenix, why would that frontcourt work with the Cavs? It probably makes them better just on a talent level, but they'd be better served with someone like Jamison (even though the Wiz won't trade him to them).

QuickRelease
02-13-2010, 02:45 PM
Amare Stoudamire is Troy Murphy bad at defense.

But if he gets in a system that emphasizes defense, I'd have to think he could get better, couldn't he? Whereas Troy is limited athletically, Amare is just uber-athletic. It's puzzling that it rarely translates to the defensive end of the floor.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 03:23 PM
But if he gets in a system that emphasizes defense, I'd have to think he could get better, couldn't he? Whereas Troy is limited athletically, Amare is just uber-athletic. It's puzzling that it rarely translates to the defensive end of the floor.

Part of the difference between athleticism and effort.

travmil
02-13-2010, 04:15 PM
Even if I believed (which I don't) that Amare was Troy Murphy bad at defense, if I could get him for the same package that The Pacers have foolishly been holding out for on Murphy, I'd do that in a heartbeat and tell Bird's dumb *** to beat it.

Pacersfan46
02-13-2010, 04:56 PM
Even if I believed (which I don't) that Amare was Troy Murphy bad at defense, if I could get him for the same package that The Pacers have foolishly been holding out for on Murphy, I'd do that in a heartbeat and tell Bird's dumb *** to beat it.

Foolishly holding out for? Do you really think we should just take the expiring and run? I'm asking because I generally agree with you, so I'm rather confused on the logic for this. Here's the difference to me ...

For us: We have Murphy signed through next season. We can still trade him next season, it's not going to kill us to hold onto him.

For them: Lebron wants a title, and could very well be a FA this summer. Several teams positioning themselves for a shot at him. If they don't produce THIS season, next year may be too late for them. I think they realize if they win a championship, it makes it much more difficult for Lebron to justify moving on. Which means EVERYTHING to that franchise.

-- Steve --

McKeyFan
02-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Let the Cavs give us three 1st round pics.

:happydanc

PacerDude
02-13-2010, 06:44 PM
There's still only 1 ball in the game - right ?? It wouldn't work.

Lance George
02-13-2010, 10:56 PM
Source: Cleveland Cavaliers not alone in bid for Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4911348)




The Cavaliers have been in touch for weeks with the Phoenix Suns about a possible deal that would bring Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, but several other teams' chances of landing the five-time All-Star forward are just as good, a person close to the talks told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Saturday.

Phoenix is seeking legitimate talent in return for Stoudemire and won't trade him strictly as a means for dumping salary, the source told Broussard.

The Suns aren't totally committed to trading Stoudemire, and he could easily remain with them past the Feb. 18 trade deadline.

In fact, the Suns are insisting they get back a young player and a first-round pick in any deal for Stoudemire, so Cavaliers power forward J.J. Hickson would almost certainly have to be part of the deal, sources familiar with the talks told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.

The Plain Dealer of Cleveland reported Friday that the Cavaliers were in negotiations to acquire Stoudemire, citing multiple league sources.

The report confirmed a Friday afternoon meeting between Cavs general manager Danny Ferry and Suns GM Steve Kerr in Dallas.

Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds on the season for the 31-22 Suns.

I really can't see the Cavs having enough pieces to land him.

bulldog
02-13-2010, 11:02 PM
I really can't see the Cavs having enough pieces to land him.

Agreed. With the rumors out of Golden State that guys like Biedrens and Morrow are available, I can't imagine a scenario where Cleveland lands him. In fact, Amare for Biedrens, Morrow, and Raja Bell's expiring works, gives the Suns cap relief and talent, and I think works for both teams on the court - I'd love to see Amare playing center and running all over the place for Don Nelson, and Morrow knocking threes down off of Nash's passes and Biedrens giving them a half-decent defensive presence that can keep up with their pace. Of course, you never know what these teams are thinking financially, so Biedren's long-term contract or giving up Bell's expiring may not be in these team's plans.

1984
02-14-2010, 12:33 AM
Dear Steve Kerr,

There are may teams willing to part with draft picks for Amare Stoudemire. Teams with draft picks that are much more vaulable than those produced by a LeBron - Amare - Williams led team.

Cheers.

vnzla81
02-14-2010, 03:24 AM
Looks like cleveland is getting Amare.


NO LINK!!

Kemo
02-14-2010, 03:54 AM
I am so tired of every other team in the NBA just bending over , touching ankles, and taking it roughly , so that the Lakers, Celtics & Cleveland can keep filling their roster with All-Stars..It is getting beyond sickening............... Really.....

It's getting to the point, where there are only 3 or 4 star-studded teams....
.
.
.
.
.
.


then the rest of the NBA..



.
.


It's almost like they have a monopoly on talent/stars.... Making it near impossible for any other team to ever win a championship..

Sure almost every team has their 1 star/franchise player... But it is CRAP when a team is stacked with a minimum of 3 all-stars or players capable of carrying a franchise on their shoulders ...


The NBA would be alot better off , more exciting, and alot more fun to watch if every team was at least a little more balanced ,...

Instead we have a handfull of teams that are really good, because they are laden with talented stars ... then there is a BIG dropoff it seems...



.







.

CableKC
02-14-2010, 04:11 AM
I still think that if this is the best that the Suns get ( 1st round Pick, Expiring Contract and JJ Hickson ) for Amare.....then that value sucks. Seriously....I have no clue why the Suns would do that as opposed to waiting to do a S&T for Amare in the summer.

Wage
02-14-2010, 04:48 AM
I still think that if this is the best that the Suns get ( 1st round Pick, Expiring Contract and JJ Hickson ) for Amare.....then that value sucks. Seriously....I have no clue why the Suns would do that as opposed to waiting to do a S&T for Amare in the summer.

Completely agree, and I simply can't believe this rumor until I see it happen. Apparently I have VASTLY underrated the value of an expiring contract.

If this turns out to be true, I guess I will be hopeful that we keep Murphy until next year. Going by this, next trade deadline we should be able to turn Murphy + 3 mill cash + Josh McRoberts into CP3 or something ;)

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 04:54 AM
Looks like cleveland is getting Amare.

Your lacking a link, and also it says Phoenix is "mulling" the deal over. Not that they said yes.

If Phoenix takes that deal I'm putting in my application for the GM job there, because it would be the worst trade in years. Including the Pau Gasol deal.

-- Steve --

avoidingtheclowns
02-14-2010, 05:03 AM
If you're looking for the link or source of vnzla's post, it's from Chris Broussard/ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305

Nothing is official, but this is a lot less than what Amare is worth. Just Hickson and cap space? If it's just that, then that's a ridiculous win for the Cavs. You'd think to give up Amare for so little, Cleveland would have to take on Richardson too, but I can't quite figure out how they'd agree to that without involving Shaq (who cannot be traded back to PHX). Maybe a third team is out there to take on Richardson and giving the Suns other assets?

Mourning
02-14-2010, 06:10 AM
... remember the Pistons getting Rasheed at the deadline in what was it 2003 or 2004? Or the Lakers getting Gasol? Those type of deals do happen sometimes.

Though in all fairness the Grizzlies did get atleast something back in the younger Gasol brother.

Pacersfan46
02-14-2010, 06:55 AM
... remember the Pistons getting Rasheed at the deadline in what was it 2003 or 2004? Or the Lakers getting Gasol? Those type of deals do happen sometimes.

Though in all fairness the Grizzlies did get atleast something back in the younger Gasol brother.

In both cases though, those trades involved a team going nowhere. The Suns are 31-22 and are a good team. This makes no sense for them at all.

-- Steve --

Slick Pinkham
02-14-2010, 08:37 AM
The Suns should take the offer from the Heat for Michael Beasley. If Beasley lays off the drugs (big if, I know) he will surpass Amare in a few years, especially in an up-tempo offense

Pacerized
02-14-2010, 10:37 AM
I posted this trade rumor last week on the Murphy to Cavs thread, but it looks like it's growing legs now.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64685/20100214/sources_cavs_close_to_landing_amare/

If the Suns do this trade they're idiots. The Beasley trade I can see but Hickson will most likely never be on the level of Amare. Add to that the fact that having Amare on the Cavs greatly increases the chances of Lebron staying and you can forget about any future 1st. round picks. If the Suns could package Nash then they would've sent their entire core to the Cavs just to help Lebron win a championship.

PR07
02-14-2010, 11:50 AM
This is a steal for Cleveland. Hickson is a nice young big man prospect, but he's certainly not good enough to be worth Amare by himself and expirings.

pacergod2
02-14-2010, 11:58 AM
There has to be two firsts added to this deal. Seriously. If it is just Hickson and Z then I will vomit.

count55
02-14-2010, 12:02 PM
@PDcavsinsider

Sources say no Stoudemire trade today, he's playing in All-Star Gm for PHX after all. But Cavs hoping for yes or no by early in week.

Sookie
02-14-2010, 12:03 PM
I know Kerr is quite cheap, though. Which is the only possible reason why this trade might take place. That said, something like this would chase Nash right out of town.

vnzla81
02-14-2010, 12:10 PM
I know Kerr is quite cheap, though. Which is the only possible reason why this trade might take place. That said, something like this would chase Nash right out of town.

I don't think is Kerr, the owners are cheap.

Pacers24Colts12
02-14-2010, 12:36 PM
if I was a Suns fan, geez, I would have changed teams a long time ago. Seriously one of the cheapest teams ever...anyone have a list of all the draft picks they traded for cash, and players they let go?

Joe Johnson
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson
Boris Diaw

I know they had like 2 top 10 draft picks they gave away pretty much.

pwee31
02-14-2010, 12:44 PM
For those who didn't think this deal would ever go down, you've failed to remember how terrible Steve Kerr has been as a GM.

He has pretty much ruined the Suns. the Diaw, Raja Bell trade was bad, hiring Terry Porter didn't work out, the Shaq experiment was obviously a bust, now you trading way you 2nd best player, and perhaps best value when you look at age, for a trade and value that was rumored days ago to land a Troy Murphy, and now you're willing to give away Amare Stoudamire for that same deal?

Bird is looking better and better

pwee31
02-14-2010, 12:45 PM
if I was a Suns fan, geez, I would have changed teams a long time ago. Seriously one of the cheapest teams ever...anyone have a list of all the draft picks they traded for cash, and players they let go?

Joe Johnson
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson
Boris Diaw

I know they had like 2 top 10 draft picks they gave away pretty much.

Add Rudy Fernandez!

d_c
02-14-2010, 12:49 PM
... remember the Pistons getting Rasheed at the deadline in what was it 2003 or 2004?

In the summer before, Dumars traded their draft bust Rodney White to the Bucks for a future 1st round pick. He then proceeded to flip that for Rasheed.

Incidentally, that pick turned into Josh Smith so Hawks did alright there.

ksuttonjr76
02-14-2010, 01:17 PM
I saw the rumor in the ticker on ESPN News. I got feeling that it's a done deal. D*mn, I was really hoping to get Hickson. The Cavs will be getting Amare for basically nothing. Hopefully, there's still legs to Kings/Bucks rumors. Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone is hating on Indiana's trades to deal Murphy?

Lance George
02-14-2010, 01:28 PM
I was never enamored with any of the rumored Cavs deals anyways, even with the world's greatest crappy player, J.J. Hickson, thrown in. I find Ilyasova far more interesting, even if it meant taking back Gadzuric's large (but short) contract. The Kings have a couple of non-Jason Thompson young pieces I'd put no less than equal to Hickson as well.

BornReady
02-14-2010, 01:41 PM
I saw the rumor in the ticker on ESPN News. I got feeling that it's a done deal. D*mn, I was really hoping to get Hickson. The Cavs will be getting Amare for basically nothing. Hopefully, there's still legs to Kings/Bucks rumors. Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone is hating on Indiana's trades to deal Murphy?

seems like everybody wants murphy for free...as though they deserve it

count55
02-14-2010, 01:44 PM
In the summer before, Dumars traded their draft bust Rodney White to the Bucks for a future 1st round pick. He then proceeded to flip that for Rasheed.

Incidentally, that pick turned into Josh Smith so Hawks did alright there.

I'd probably use "accidentally" instead of "incidentally." There's no way that Atlanta could have been expecting a value like Josh Smith out of a mid-to-late draft pick. If they were, then it's more likely that they were delusional and got lucky than that they were prescient.

ksuttonjr76
02-14-2010, 01:58 PM
seems like everybody wants murphy for free...as though they deserve it

Pretty much. Personally, I agree with Bird. No picks or young player(s), then no deal. We're desperate, but keeping Murphy does kinda insure us in getting a low draft pick due to JOB's insistence of playing him large minutes. It would be just our luck to make a good trade, then play ourselves right out of the Top 8.

vnzla81
02-14-2010, 02:23 PM
Add Rudy Fernandez!

and Andre Iguadola

pwee31
02-14-2010, 03:24 PM
Teams up ante for Stoudamire

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913834



While Cleveland has zeroed in on Amare Stoudemire, it benefits the Suns to let the process play out until the last hours before Thursday's deadline.

Sources with knowledge of the negotiations said Saturday night that the Cavs and Suns were in serious talks about a deal that would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big man

Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds on the season.

But reports that the five-time All-Star Stoudemire could be headed to Cleveland have led other clubs to spice up their offers to Phoenix, according to sources.

The ball is now in Phoenix's court.

The Suns are mulling over whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas' $12 million contract -- they'll likely waive Ilgauskas after the trade -- and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with an impact player like Stoudemire.

And the Cavaliers have to be fairly certain that Stoudemire would be willing to re-sign with them before giving up the fast-improving Hickson.

However, according to sources, Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala, appears to be the Suns' top choice.

So far, the Sixers have been leery of giving up their best player for Stoudemire.

While Stoudemire has good relationships with LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal, some close to Stoudemire believe Miami -- where he lives during the summer -- is his first choice.

Miami has pursued Stoudemire hard but has no one on its roster (besides Dwyane Wade) that interests Phoenix, according to sources. That includes Michael Beasley. So it would take a three-team deal for Stoudemire to be traded to the Heat.

Of course, Cleveland can also pursue three-team deals that would sweeten the offer for Phoenix.

SMosley21
02-14-2010, 03:29 PM
Just like I said in the thread in RSS, Steve Kerr is pulling the old bait and switch. Genius!

Hicks
02-14-2010, 04:21 PM
From Adrian Wojnarowski at YahooSports

@WojYahooNBA


Cavs believe this: The best chance to keep LBJ comes with winning title now. They'll make move they think gives them that chance.

You have to admire this about Cavs organization: Unlike most of NBA, they're always going for it. They spare no expense to win.

If Cavs do Amar'e deal, it would surprise many GMs. Unlike Jamison or Murphy, this would be dramatic change for Cavs. Most expected subtle.

Along those lines, many execs believe Cavs are posturing with Amar'e to get asking prices lowered for Jamison and Murphy. High-stakes poker.

BlueNGold
02-14-2010, 05:05 PM
Does anyone find it funny that the Cavs might think a player who has never been to the playoffs might make them better? A player who doesn't defend...next to Shaq who has his own struggles on D?

I just find it too funny if it's true. Funny like the Pistons acquiring Gordon and Charlie V.

pwee31
02-14-2010, 07:19 PM
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA


Suns waiting on Philly to tell them whether Andre Igoudala will be included with Sam Dalembert for Stoudemire-Barbosa package, sources say.



As things stand now, the Cavs package of Big Z and Hickson is the most viable for Suns, sources say.

pwee31
02-14-2010, 07:27 PM
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider



Major reason why the Cavs are a leading contender for Stoudemire: They can get Suns below tax, which would be worth around $10 million.


http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA



As @PDcavsinsider says, Suns can save $10 million with Cavs deal --after Z buyout. As one source says, "They like Hickson well enough too."

Lance George
02-14-2010, 07:32 PM
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA


Several sources involved have all but ruled out this scenario: Phoenix does nothing and keeps Stoudemire.
8 minutes ago from web

So it looks like if Philly ponies up Iggy, Amare is a 76er. If not, he's going to Cleveland for table scraps.

Come on Philadelphia...

Anthem
02-14-2010, 07:51 PM
If that's the asking price for Amare, I'm guessing Troy will be worth less.

Shade
02-14-2010, 09:56 PM
Yet more proof that expiring contracts can still net an All-Star caliber player.

DGPR
02-14-2010, 10:58 PM
I hope this deal goes through because I would rather have a chance at Kevin Martin rather than Hickson.

vnzla81
02-14-2010, 11:01 PM
I hope this deal goes through because I would rather have a chance at Kevin Martin rather than Hickson.

there is not chance to get Kmart.

pwee31
02-14-2010, 11:13 PM
David Aldridge just said during the all-star game that the Suns aren't even sure if they're going to trade Stoudamire... let alone to Cleveland

Also said McGrady to the Knicks is warming back up and is probably 50-50

jeffg-body
02-14-2010, 11:53 PM
Never say never about KMart. If we pony up one of our young guns, probably Brandon, or a draft pick or two I think we could make them listen. That is if he is truly available.

Heck, make it a big trade and add a Beno for TJ swap in there. If we're worried about losing our flexibility to sign FA's in 2011 we could consider this as us getting better players than we may have had a chance at signing anyway. We will still have other expiring contracts that we can do trades with next year.

KMart, Thompson and Beno for Murph, TJ, Brandon and our 2012 1st rounder (top ten protected). I'd hate to give up on Brandon so soon but you have to give up talent to get talent.:thumbup:

I like the idea of seeing a line-up of Price, Martin, Danny, Hans/Thompson/2010 Draft Pick?, Hibbert. Now that would be a nice young core to develop.

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 12:00 AM
While I am probably a top AJ Price fan around here, he's not starting material. We need a star at PG for once in our lives.

Sookie
02-15-2010, 12:01 AM
Never say never about KMart. If we pony up one of our young guns, probably Brandon, or a draft pick or two I think we could make them listen. That is if he is truly available.

Heck, make it a big trade and add a Beno for TJ swap in there. If we're worried about losing our flexibility to sign FA's in 2011 we could consider this as us getting better players than we may have had a chance at signing anyway. We will still have other expiring contracts that we can do trades with next year.

KMart, Thompson and Beno for Murph, TJ, Brandon and our 2012 1st rounder (top ten protected). I'd hate to give up on Brandon so soon but you have to give up talent to get talent.:thumbup:

I like the idea of seeing a line-up of Price, Martin, Danny, Hans/Thompson/2010 Draft Pick?, Hibbert. Now that would be a nice young core to develop.

So you want to get rid of Rush, and take on a guy that we don't want (beno) with a contract we REALLY don't want...in order to get an injury prone SF..when our all star plays the SF position.

Why exactly?

A contract dump, fine. Getting a good young player, Do it. But the Pacers really shouldn't get anymore contracts they really don't want.

As for A.J. I don't know that it's fair to say either way. He's not likely going to be an All Star. But a team doesn't need that. I think there's potential there to be starting PG. But I also think we actually have to see him play more to make that decision...

Of course, I'm of the opinion that all star point guards are almost impossible to come buy. Much easier to get an All Star SG/SF/PF.

esabyrn333
02-15-2010, 12:06 AM
So you want to get rid of Rush, and take on a guy that we don't want (beno) with a contract we REALLY don't want...in order to get an injury prone SF..when our all star plays the SF position.

Why exactly?

A contract dump, fine. Getting a good young player, Do it. But the Pacers really shouldn't get anymore contracts they really don't want.

KMart is a Shooting Guard not a small foward last time I checked KMart & Danny would play next to each other. That to me would be a hard duo to deal with.

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 12:08 AM
Kevin's actually a shooting guard.

Sookie
02-15-2010, 12:09 AM
Kevin's actually a shooting guard.

Oh, oops. I still think the other reasons stand, that it's a bad call. :P

The Problem is, the Pacers really get stuck, right when we thought they'd have some freedom to get some players they actually want.

Thesterovic
02-15-2010, 12:11 AM
Agreed. If you take on Beno's contract along with Kevin's, technically your paying him about 21M a year over 3 years with an additional 7M for one year stuck with Beno.

But I'd love Martin without Beno.

Cactus Jax
02-15-2010, 12:45 AM
and Andre Iguadola

And Rajon Rondo too. Suns gave him away to the Celts, its ridiculous how good the Suns would be if they hadn't gone cheap.

CableKC
02-15-2010, 12:58 AM
Yet more proof that expiring contracts can still net an All-Star caliber player.
In any other season, I'd totally agree.....but the 2010-2011 season is so much different then others in the past ( the huge 2010-2011 FA Market coupled with the "above average" # of Teams that are looking to clear SalaryCap Space just to pursue those FA ) that I still question how much value a 2010-2011 Expiring Contract will be SPECIFICALLY for the Pacers. I'm going to stand by the preference to move Murphy now to get out from under the LT threshold and then look for these Expiring Contract opportunities next offseason using Ford/Foster/Dunleavy. It's entirely possible that the Pacers work out some deal where they are able to get some All Star..... but with our luck and the fact that we'd be over the LT, IMHO we'd end up with some deal closer to the level of Players like the one we got in the Indy-GSW trade where we further mess up our Salarycap / Financial situation.

diamonddave00
02-15-2010, 01:24 AM
A later comment by the Cavs writer said if Stoudamire were acquired by the Cavs , they could then send Shaq and their # 1 to the Pacers for Murphy and Dunleavy.

This is the total trade he out lined :http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzt4rbb

Add Cavs #1 to Pacer portion.

He also suggested the Shaq and pick to Wizard for Jamison and Mike Miller.

CableKC
02-15-2010, 01:38 AM
A later comment by the Cavs writer said if Stoudamire were acquired by the Cavs , they could then send Shaq and their # 1 to the Pacers for Murphy and Dunleavy.

This is the total trade he out lined :http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzt4rbb

Add Cavs #1 to Pacer portion.

Link? IMHO too good to be true.

CableKC
02-15-2010, 01:41 AM
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA



So it looks like if Philly ponies up Iggy, Amare is a 76er. If not, he's going to Cleveland for table scraps.

Come on Philadelphia...

I'm confused... Could u elaborate on how the Sixers, Cavs, and Suns do this?

diamonddave00
02-15-2010, 02:01 AM
The link is http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq


February, 15, 2010 Feb 151:06AM ETEmail Print Share By Chad Ford
Archive On Sunday, ESPN.comís Chris Broussard reported that the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Phoenix Suns had seriously discussed a trade that would send Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland for J.J. Hickson (and the expiring contract of Zydrunas Ilgauskas). As Broussard reported, the Cavs had made the offer and the ball was in Phoenix's court.

In the meantime, Iíve spoken to sources connected to the Cavs, the Suns and other teams around the league, and while they confirm that the Stoudemire trade discussions between Cleveland and Phoenix are at a serious stage, they also describe a fluid situation, with trade discussions taking place on multiple fronts.

Here is what Iím hearing as of early Monday:

For the Suns, the Stoudemire-Hickson trade would be something of a last resort. The Suns have been hoping to land more than just Hickson and financial relief for Stoudemire.

In particular, the Suns are still holding out hope that Philadelphia will come to the table and agree to a deal sending Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert to Phoenix. The Suns have sweetened their offer to the 76ers by including Leandro Barbosa in a package with Stoudemire. Also possible is a three-way trade that would send Hickson and Barbosa (along with Ilgauskas) to Philly, Stoudemire to Cleveland and Iguodala and Dalembert to Phoenix.

Expect the Suns to turn up the heat significantly on the Sixers on Monday.

The Miami Heat remain very interested in Stoudemire and are trying to find a third team to help improve their offer to Phoenix. Though Amare is amenable to going to Cleveland, Miami is his first choice.

Meanwhile, Cleveland remain interested in obtaining either Antawn Jamison of the Washington Wizards or Troy Murphy of the Indiana Pacers. According to an official from one of those two teams, the Cavs said on Sunday that a Stoudemire trade was not a done deal and the team was still evaluating its options.

Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Jamison or Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting.

Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille OíNeal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap OíNeal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.

One surprising note: According to a source, Amare's agent has yet to be contacted by the Cavs. Since Stoudemire has an early termination clause in his contract, itís possible that Cleveland is willing to acquire Stoudemire without assurances that he will stay with the Cavs beyond this season. Still, one should expect the Cavs to gather some sort of intel on Stoudemireís wishes.

As has been speculated, if the Suns do acquire Ilgauskas, they would likely waive him, which would open the door for him to return to Cleveland after a 30-day wait.


Sorry was Chad Ford not the Cavs writer.

CableKC
02-15-2010, 03:08 AM
The link is http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq
Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O’Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O’Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.

To me....this appears to be speculation on ESPN's part.....as opposed to some grand plan from Cleveland if they were to actually acquire Amare. Ignoring that Shaq WOULD NOT come to Indy....I'd guess that there would be some buyout expected on Indy's part with a return to Cleveland or Shaq going to some other Team. I'd contend that the Cavs should not move Shaq without intending to resign him. Shaq is the best passing Big Man in the League which would make having a Stretch PF less useful.

Interesting question though on a purely hypothetical level.....would you do a Shaq+useless filler for MurphLeavy ( essentially a huge Salary Dump to get rid of Murphy and Dunelavy's contract )?

I would for the financial benefits and clearing so much CapSpace from 2010-2011. We'd be able to get under the SalaryCap....not too much...but it would allow us to have some flexibility to make some actual moves that would improve the Team next season.

Trader Joe
02-15-2010, 03:35 AM
Everyone saying this is such a terrible trade for the Suns, you just wait and see, Hickson will thrive next to Nash. Amare will just clog the lane for Lebron...

BKK
02-15-2010, 05:38 AM
I can definitely see Hickson blossom in Nash's offense just the way Amare did... Remember his first few seasons in the league, Amare was mostly about athletic plays and dunks... So far Hickson is showing similar attributes...

Now personally I think i'd be ok with something like Murph+TJ for Thomas+Thomson+Udrih. IMO it's fair both in terms of talent and salary structure...

ksuttonjr76
02-15-2010, 08:49 AM
To me....this appears to be speculation on ESPN's part.....as opposed to some grand plan from Cleveland if they were to actually acquire Amare. Ignoring that Shaq WOULD NOT come to Indy....I'd guess that there would be some buyout expected on Indy's part with a return to Cleveland or Shaq going to some other Team. I'd contend that the Cavs should not move Shaq without intending to resign him. Shaq is the best passing Big Man in the League which would make having a Stretch PF less useful.

Interesting question though on a purely hypothetical level.....would you do a Shaq+useless filler for MurphLeavy ( essentially a huge Salary Dump to get rid of Murphy and Dunelavy's contract )?

I would for the financial benefits and clearing so much CapSpace from 2010-2011. We'd be able to get under the SalaryCap....not too much...but it would allow us to have some flexibility to make some actual moves that would improve the Team next season.

Personally, I'm not a huge of fan of salary dump moves; HOWEVER, I'm not against dumping Murphy and Dunleavy at the same time THIS year. That would make the TJ Ford the last contract to get rid of, and we could get a pretty good leftover FA this summer. 3 year plan would be pushed 1 year earlier, and we would still have our Top 8 pick. Pacers could be a playoff team next season and JOB will hopefully be gone. As a side note, the Cavs would be stupid to do this trade for Murphy and Dunleavy. Here's hoping for GM Stupid.

Tom White
02-15-2010, 09:38 AM
...They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.



Isn't it odd how these two seem to be eternally joined at the hip? I've thought it would do them both good to be on separate teams.

90'sNBARocked
02-15-2010, 10:32 AM
In both cases though, those trades involved a team going nowhere. The Suns are 31-22 and are a good team. This makes no sense for them at all.

-- Steve --

Steve,

Mr Sarver (owner of the Suns) is haveing financial problems. Amare want a max or near max contract which the Suns and specifiaclly Mr Sarver, appear unwilling to pay.

So it is a straight salary dump , with the caveat of Hickson

ksuttonjr76
02-15-2010, 10:41 AM
Isn't it odd how these two seem to be eternally joined at the hip? I've thought it would do them both good to be on separate teams.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Makes you wonder if there's a "record" for trades involving the same two individuals.

bulldog
02-15-2010, 11:03 AM
Everyone saying this is such a terrible trade for the Suns, you just wait and see, Hickson will thrive next to Nash. Amare will just clog the lane for Lebron...

Yea, but Nash is 35 years old. 35! What he's doing right now is nothing short of remarkable, there hasn't been a single point guard that's been able to maintain this level of production this late into his career.

And there's no way he can keep it up.

What does he have? 1, 2 more seasons, maybe? By the time Hickson develops Nash'll be playing golf with Barkley (or whatever Canadians do when they retire. Luge?).

This trade just makes so little sense for Phoenix. They really can't get better than JJ Hickson?

And to think, they once had a team with Nash-Stoudemire-Marion-Joe Johnson-Quentin Richardson-Raja Bell-Leandro Barbosa with the opportunity to add Luol Deng and Rudy Fernandez had they not sold/traded those picks. Wow.

count55
02-15-2010, 11:05 AM
Yea, but Nash is 35 years old. 35! What he's doing right now is nothing short of remarkable, there hasn't been a single point guard that's been able to maintain this level of production this late into his career.



John Stockton

bulldog
02-15-2010, 11:14 AM
John Stockton

At age 35, the 1997-1998 season, Stockton managed to play 64 games, averaging 12 points, 8.5 assists, and 1.4 steals per game.

Nash is getting 18.5 points and 11.1 assists per game, while shooting a ridiculous .519 from the field. That's a noticeable step up from Stockton's numbers, particularly when you consider that he's serving as Phoenix's primary scorer AND play-maker right now.

count55
02-15-2010, 11:16 AM
At age 35, the 1997-1998 season, Stockton managed to play 62 games, averaging 12 points, 8.5 assists, and 1.4 steals per game.

Nash is getting 18.5 points and 11.1 assists per game, while shooting a ridiculous .519 from the field. That's a noticeable step up from Stockton's numbers, particularly when you consider that he's serving as Phoenix's primary scorer AND play-maker right now.

My bad, the player comparison I looked at pulled Career numbers through 14 years instead of the year.

BKK
02-15-2010, 03:08 PM
LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Makes you wonder if there's a "record" for trades involving the same two individuals.

hmmm I think Marion and Banks have the edge on that one : to Miami together, to Toronto together... there are some rumors that Marcus cried when Shawn left via free agency, WORD!

Lance George
02-16-2010, 07:13 PM
Sources: Miami Heat making big push for Amare Stoudemire - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4917483)

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The Miami Heat (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia) have intensified their efforts to trump Cleveland in the chase for Phoenix Suns (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho) forward Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727), sources close to the situation said Monday.

The Heat emerged from the All-Star break even more determined than they were before to find a third team to help them broker an Amare deal before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline.
Miami is "coming hard" after Stoudemire, one source said.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3607.jpg
Stoudemire

Although the Heat have first-round picks available to sweeten any Stoudemire deal -- with the Suns hoping to come away with at least one first-rounder if they decide to trade Stoudemire this week -- sources say Phoenix has no interest in taking back Jermaine O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=615)'s hefty expiring contract because, at $23 million, it requires more players to be worked into the deal than the Suns are comfortable with.

Yet one source insisted Monday night that the Suns have not ruled out taking back forward Michael Beasley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3418) as part of a Stoudemire deal. The Heat -- after carefully preserving their salary-cap space for months -- are suddenly pushing hard to make a big trade splash now if possible instead of waiting for free agency in July and gambling on the idea that they can lure a marquee name such as LeBron James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966) or Chris Bosh (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977) to South Beach to flank Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1987).

The Cavaliers are prepared to send Zydrunas Ilgauskas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362)' expiring contract, young power forward J.J. Hickson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3437) and perhaps draft considerations to the Suns for Stoudemire, who appeared to give Cleveland further motivation to make that bold move when he used his Twitter feed Monday night to scoff at speculation that he and Cavs center Shaquille O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=614) can't coexist.

"You guys can stop saying we don't play well together," Stoudemire tweeted.
A pick from the perennially contending Cavs obviously wouldn't be as enticing as a Miami draft pick, but sources say that Cleveland also continues to chase longtime target Antawn Jamison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385) in case Miami assembles a better deal for Stoudemire. It likewise remains to be seen whether Philadelphia decides to make Andre Iguodala (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2386) available after making it clear before the All-Star break that it is not prepared to surrender Iguodala in a Stoudemire deal.

"They're the wild card," one source said of the Sixers.

The Cavs resume play Thursday at home against Denver riding a 13-game win streak, but they still hope to come away with a big player by week's end. While Stoudemire leads their list, the Cavs have also been mentioned in relation to Washington's Jamison and Indiana's Troy Murphy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013). Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday that the Cavs are also in talks with the Warriors about Corey Maggette (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=497).

The Suns, meanwhile, appear intent on finally finding a workable trade for Stoudemire before the deadline -- even though the sides did briefly discuss a contract extension during All-Star Weekend in Dallas -- after shopping him heavily at last season's trading deadline as well. Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds this season and started at center for the West in Sunday's All-Star Game.

Senior writer Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com.

Lance George
02-16-2010, 07:40 PM
Trade buzz: Heat looking for trade partner - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz021610&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)




Trade buzz: Heat looking for trade partner

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 1 hour, 29 minutes ago

The Miami Heat (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/mia/;_ylt=Aq3hfSy.rl7Rc9zMhhW35ugQmNIF) have failed to recruit the Charlotte Bobcats (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cha/;_ylt=ArwFYoyBKMsh3oBu4F.u6iYQmNIF) as a third team in trade talks for Amar’e Stoudemire (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/;_ylt=AmexVit4uu2fhII_D8m6rmEQmNIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/news;_ylt=AkWtBKOkZn_0BmuE1pzemIIQmNIF), league sources said. The discussions centered on Charlotte taking on Udonis Haslem (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3765/;_ylt=AsY2.GyR3foULoEm8RSNvVoQmNIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3765/news;_ylt=AiJqTG3DAKR2lB7EuE2sFscQmNIF) in a deal, but the price ultimately made no sense for them.

It would’ve possibly opened the door for Miami to deal Jermaine O’Neal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3120/;_ylt=Ah80kDw2mLVe6UnVeyYGXwkQmNIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3120/news;_ylt=Ai75HG1T9NMac57rxLFdJ1YQmNIF) to the Suns and take back both Stoudemire and Jason Richardson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3515/;_ylt=AtyfXZBt9PTgextY98edoIAQmNIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3515/news;_ylt=AljShRlomfnZqIflp4z1PNoQmNIF). The Suns have tried to include Richardson, who will make $14.4 million next season, in packages with Stoudemire.

– Adrian Wojnarowski, 6:08 p.m. ET, Feb. 16

MLB007
02-16-2010, 09:54 PM
John Stockton

Jason Kidd