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View Full Version : Rookie vs Sophmore game (Blair, Evans show)



sportfireman
02-13-2010, 10:06 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64661/20100213/evans_blair_lead_rookies_over_sophomores/



Sacramento's Tyreke Evans was named the MVP of the Rookie Challenge as the Rookies defeated the Sophomores 140-128 on Friday night.

Evans scored 26 points and San Antonio's DeJuan Blair totaled 23 points and a record 22 rebounds.

"He started getting the rebounds for us. He did what he said he was going to do," said Evans. "That's why I wanted to share the (MVP) trophy with him."

Oklahoma City's Russell Westbrook scored 40 points for the sophomores, who had won seven straight games.

"We got our butts kicked in every aspect of the game," said Patrick Ewing, the Orlando assistant coach who headed the sophomore squad. "I know it's an All-Star game, but we didn't play with enough pride in my eyes. They outplayed us, they outhustled us, they outscrapped us."

Most of us wished Roy and Tyler were there but hey the Rooks won........and Blair had a nice showing........you know I'm starting to like this guy. Oh and Evans is a beast.

Hicks
02-13-2010, 10:56 AM
Blair was a riot when he tried doing stuff out of the ordinary like dribbling full court, doing a dunk off the glass to himself, attempting a no-look. Pretty funny to watch a guy that size/shape doing that stuff. Made me think of how Shaq sometimes gets during all-star games.

There's a lot to like about him, but whenever I see him I can almost hear the sound of two rusty metal hinges whenever his legs move. ;)

sportfireman
02-13-2010, 10:58 AM
Blair was a riot when he tried doing stuff out of the ordinary like dribbling full court, doing a dunk off the glass to himself, attempting a no-look. Pretty funny to watch a guy that size/shape doing that stuff. Made me think of how Shaq sometimes gets during all-star games.

There's a lot to like about him, but whenever I see him I can almost hear the sound of two rusty metal hinges whenever his legs move. ;)

I liked RoboCop:laugh:

Anthem
02-13-2010, 11:12 AM
There's a lot to like about him, but whenever I see him I can almost hear the sound of two rusty metal hinges whenever his legs move. ;)
Agreed. I'm glad we avoided the injury bug by going with the safe pick.

Hicks
02-13-2010, 11:18 AM
Blair would be dead by now if he wore blue and gold.

Chestbursters (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/chestburster.jpg) would have erupted from his knees, eaten his head, then attacked the fans at Conseco.

Kegboy
02-13-2010, 11:36 AM
:sigh:

You know, I can understand him not getting drafted in the first round. I may not agree with it, but I understand the fear. But six teams passing him in the second is inexcusable. If Portland had that deal for #31 beforehand and passed on him TWICE in those six picks, man, that's ridiculous.

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 11:37 AM
Just imagine if Tyler started over Blair. He would have been dead serious, that would have been hilarious. He probably would have dropped 30 too, being back in the whole collegesque environment.

Gamble1
02-13-2010, 11:45 AM
:sigh:

You know, I can understand him not getting drafted in the first round. I may not agree with it, but I understand the fear. But six teams passing him in the second is inexcusable. If Portland had that deal for #31 beforehand and passed on him TWICE in those six picks, man, that's ridiculous.
Or the fact that the Pacers didn't trade up to pick him. Its a dead horse I know but what a good draft for the Pacers if we had Blair and Tyler.

Hicks,
To bad Tyler can't hear those rusty hinges like you can...:-p

sportfireman
02-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Or the fact that the Pacers didn't trade up to pick him. Its a dead horse I know but what a good draft for the Pacers if we had Blair and Tyler.

Hicks,
To bad Tyler can't hear those rusty hinges like you can...:-p

:laugh:

SMosley21
02-13-2010, 11:51 AM
The fact that Blair didn't win MVP is laughable.

Shade
02-13-2010, 11:52 AM
:sigh:

You know, I can understand him not getting drafted in the first round. I may not agree with it, but I understand the fear. But six teams passing him in the second is inexcusable. If Portland had that deal for #31 beforehand and passed on him TWICE in those six picks, man, that's ridiculous.

The second he dropped to the second round, I was praying for us to pry a pick from someone and nab him. I'm still pissed we didn't.

AlexAustin
02-13-2010, 03:20 PM
The fact that Blair didn't win MVP is laughable.

He shouldn't been the MVP in my book, he had a nice game but it was made even better after the game was already decided adding 6 and 5 in the last minute while Evans done most of the work building the lead while Blair had a big 2nd half maintaining it.

NapTonius Monk
02-13-2010, 03:28 PM
Agreed. I'm glad we avoided the injury bug by going with the safe pick.

Shouldn't that be green? :laugh:

rexnom
02-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Blair at 13 is tough. You really want a guy at 13 that is going to be a rotation player for you for a long time. Blair probably not worth the risk there. At about 20 onward, I think it became almost inexcusable the way teams just passed on him.

Pacemaker
02-13-2010, 07:07 PM
Blair at 13 is tough. You really want a guy at 13 that is going to be a rotation player for you for a long time. Blair probably not worth the risk there. At about 20 onward, I think it became almost inexcusable the way teams just passed on him.

So much for the safe pick .. look at us now :(

PacerDude
02-13-2010, 07:38 PM
Blair would be dead by now if he wore blue and gold.Disagree.

He doesn't fit small-ball. He'd be in fine shape .......... at the end of the bench. Difficult for the Chestbursters to develop when he wouldn't play.

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2010, 03:51 AM
Agreed. I'm glad we avoided the injury bug by going with the safe pick.
Now seriously guys, if you'd never heard of the MRI scans indicating missing ACLs would you really have the faintest hint of Blair having any problems moving?

He looks fine to me. Slow like a husky power big is going to be, but otherwise he moves up the court 5 times better than Rasho and he's still lingering in the league.


The rooks winning is a big upset to me. The class last year was decent, but it was really thin on bigs and the #1 pick is out with injury. Blair was one of the stars and he was a 2nd round pick.

I mean Westbrook, Mayo, Gordon, Love, Beasley, Lopez...yes Rose goes to the regular AS game here, but still. How does a frontline of Lopez, Beasley and Love let Blair go for 23 rebounds?

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2010, 04:05 AM
Blair would be dead by now if he wore blue and gold.

Chestbursters (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/chestburster.jpg) would have erupted from his knees, eaten his head, then attacked the fans at Conseco.
In my opinion people and teams make their own luck.*

The odds are highly against the Pacers just getting massively unlucky with injuries, and I'm not sure they have been all that more snake-bitten lately. We all know that if I were GM the Pacers would have taken Blair, Holiday or perhaps traded down.

The minute I saw Blair drop as far as he was I would have called up Chicago (if they wanted Tyler like some claim, I don't buy it personally) and said "he's all yours, let's trade down".


Then again I might have traded up for TWill or Henderson too, so in the world where I'm GM maybe I'm getting blasted too. :) But at least they aren't hurt.














*unless Shade or I get involved, as it's been scientifically proven that we share the ability to injure or remove players from the team simply by jersey purchase or accepting an autograph.

April 2008, I break my restriction and buy 3 jersey's at the 50% sale - Granger, Dunleavy, Foster. Seriously.

Remember the brawl year when Reggie started off on the IR? Finally broke down and got his uni about a year prior, max.

Dale traded? Signiture after swearing it off after getting Chuck, Det and Jax traded. Best too.

I did not buy a Tyler because that would have been dirty pool and not productive for the team. I'm guessing that one might be on Shade.

AlexAustin
02-14-2010, 04:37 AM
Seth you do know it's and exhibition game right how can it be a big upset? Also with Blair getting blocked 37 times in his last 37 games not counting the exhibition game which he got blocked in as well, does it still mean Tyler is going to bust since you hated how he got blocked so much while coming off injury and now he and Blair have the roughly the same block against per attempt rate?

sportfireman
02-14-2010, 07:10 AM
In my opinion people and teams make their own luck.*

The odds are highly against the Pacers just getting massively unlucky with injuries, and I'm not sure they have been all that more snake-bitten lately. We all know that if I were GM the Pacers would have taken Blair, Holiday or perhaps traded down.

The minute I saw Blair drop as far as he was I would have called up Chicago (if they wanted Tyler like some claim, I don't buy it personally) and said "he's all yours, let's trade down".


Then again I might have traded up for TWill or Henderson too, so in the world where I'm GM maybe I'm getting blasted too. :) But at least they aren't hurt.














*unless Shade or I get involved, as it's been scientifically proven that we share the ability to injure or remove players from the team simply by jersey purchase or accepting an autograph.

April 2008, I break my restriction and buy 3 jersey's at the 50% sale - Granger, Dunleavy, Foster. Seriously.

Remember the brawl year when Reggie started off on the IR? Finally broke down and got his uni about a year prior, max.

Dale traded? Signiture after swearing it off after getting Chuck, Det and Jax traded. Best too.

I did not buy a Tyler because that would have been dirty pool and not productive for the team. I'm guessing that one might be on Shade.

snake bit because of the way they are and have handled things......... you do people wrong and wrong will come back to you. With that said until there's a change up top there won't be a change on court (production wise). IMO

mildlysane
02-14-2010, 10:29 AM
I have to admit, I was a bit of a Blair doubter, but I am coming around on him. He is definitely a beast, and perhaps we made a mistake not taking him. I know Tyler hasn't played much, but to me, it seems that skill-wise, Blair is alot better. I hope his knees hold out, but man, he is pretty tough. Sorry to the posters whom I debated this issue with. I believe now I was wrong and you were right.

MLB007
02-14-2010, 05:29 PM
ACL's don't have anything to do with HOW you move, it's there to support the joint, to keep everything in line and moving smoothly.
If you don't have one (like me) you can do everything you could before, but every movement adds incremental wear to the joint as it gets looser and looser over time as the bone wears away. Eventually the socket gets loose enough that the joint can come apart and dislocate. That usually takes many years for the average person. But a professional athlete? Basketball? At 250+lbs?
I hope the kid has a long, healthy career.
But I'll be amazed.
And I assume lots medical staffs would be too.


Now seriously guys, if you'd never heard of the MRI scans indicating missing ACLs would you really have the faintest hint of Blair having any problems moving?

He looks fine to me. Slow like a husky power big is going to be, but otherwise he moves up the court 5 times better than Rasho and he's still lingering in the league.


The rooks winning is a big upset to me. The class last year was decent, but it was really thin on bigs and the #1 pick is out with injury. Blair was one of the stars and he was a 2nd round pick.

I mean Westbrook, Mayo, Gordon, Love, Beasley, Lopez...yes Rose goes to the regular AS game here, but still. How does a frontline of Lopez, Beasley and Love let Blair go for 23 rebounds?

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2010, 08:57 PM
My comment was in response to people saying "you can hear his joints creek".

As for the general "it's only a matter of time" view on Blair, who says? I've made this point 1000 times, not one expert was able to explain his season LAST YEAR.

When you say "that's impossible" as someone is doing it, you clearly are missing some part of the picture. It is possible somehow, so maybe while we understand how knees normally work there is some other aspect to joint movement and recovery that still escapes us.

Or does someone want to vote for medical science being "done" at this point, having totally captured the nuances of everything human.

And this is why HINES WARD keeps being brought up by me. He had the EXACT SAME ISSUE in one knee prior to the NFL draft. Teams passed on him because of it.

Was it "only a matter of time" for Ward and the physical nature of the NFL? Sure he doesn't run up and down as much perhaps (though 30-40 routes of 10-30 yards per game is a healthy dose of running) and perhaps doesn't jump, but he gets hit in the side of the knee a hellava lot more and probably makes more in-competition cuts on it per week too.

The people saying "we don't know how Blair is doing it" are the same people that said Ward wouldn't make it. The bottom line is that these cases are not yet understood and when people say they know what is going to happen they are lying, or just so wrong that they don't realize it.

I'm not saying I do know what's going on with him. I'm just trying to get this one bit of misinformation fixed. Doctors didn't say "he can't play", they said "that doesn't seem good or healthy" even though he'd been playing on it for a year or more at least (high school injury based situation).

Blair has doctors stumped. Concerned perhaps, but also unable to explain him either. Just like Ward.

Again, the statement isn't "once you lose the ACLs you can only continue as an elite professional athlete for a little longer before the knees go". The statement is "once you lose your ACLs, you're done at that level starting right now". If Granger loses his ACLs (not torn, I mean gone) no one is going to say "well, at least we have 2-3 more great years from him before his knees go". That'll be it right then.

But for Blair it wasn't it because it happened before he ever walked onto the PITT campus, let alone 40+ NBA games.


Maybe he will be done next year or 2 years, but doctors don't know. They are just guessing because his situation is abnormal.


ACL's don't have anything to do with HOW you move, it's there to support the joint, to keep everything in line and moving smoothly.
If you don't have one (like me) you can do everything you could before, but every movement adds incremental wear to the joint as it gets looser and looser over time as the bone wears away. Eventually the socket gets loose enough that the joint can come apart and dislocate. That usually takes many years for the average person. But a professional athlete? Basketball? At 250+lbs?
I hope the kid has a long, healthy career.
But I'll be amazed.
And I assume lots medical staffs would be too.

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2010, 09:13 PM
Seth you do know it's and exhibition game right how can it be a big upset? Also with Blair getting blocked 37 times in his last 37 games not counting the exhibition game which he got blocked in as well, does it still mean Tyler is going to bust since you hated how he got blocked so much while coming off injury and now he and Blair have the roughly the same block against per attempt rate?
If his FG% was 35% and his rebound rate was 3-4 less per 36 then I'd classify him as exactly the same. Blair gets blocked sure, his size hurts him, but he does score the ball at a very high FG% inside and Tyler doesn't. The blocks for Tyler only emphasize his problem. Blair loses inside sometimes, but he also wins a good portion of those battles.



BTW, when Tyler is jamming one in someone's face every few games and scoring at a 55% rate like any standard PF, along with ONLY maintaining his current rebound rate, it won't be the same. I will admit then I was wrong about his chances to make it, but I won't be changing my tune when I say he's playing well. He will simply have started playing up to an acceptable level which will then warrant me saying he is playing well/better.

I'm not giving TWill credit for being an acceptable shooter either, and I liked him as a prospect.


I'm not even wanting this to be a Blair vs Tyler thing again, but obviously I've created a rep for myself.

All Tyler has to do is put up Blair numbers. That's it. Has he MATCHED THOSE yet? No. Then why am I the one that's a jerk here?




If Blair and Tyler put up the SAME numbers/injuries but Blair was in the BnG and Tyler was in black, and a Spurs fan came on here and jocked up how Tyler was a better pick at 13 than Blair in round 2 and that Blair would be done in a year or two, would ANY SINGLE PD poster say "amen brother"? Or would you list the same stats I do because Blair was a Pacer and tell the guy to get real?

That question is the crux of all this crap. I try to judge our guys and our picks the same as I judge other players and picks.

Tyler's first year was not rated all that good nationally prior to his ear infection, and the time missed to injuries isn't helping. If he was on Memphis everyone at PD would be writing him off, other than UNC fans perhaps.

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2010, 09:21 PM
Before someone tries to jump in like I'm talking out my rear

Linky to discussion of his situation.
http://www.slate.com/id/2234460/

BTW, Phillip Rivers continued to play the conference championship vs the Pats with a 100% non-function ACL after suffering a knee injury in the game.

Effectively what has been discussed regarding the "how" with Blair and Ward before him was that both athletes developed compensation methods, either with movement adjustments or with the body growing and developing tissues and muscle to supplement the missing ACL. They end up with knees that work DIFFERENTLY than a normal one.

There is a feeling that this different functionality will ultimately bring on future knee issues, but much of that potential lies with how well the new structure performs and is maintained. If quad strength is a major factor then maintaining that muscle level would be a key, as one example.

edit - some of the Slate story appears to be sourced from this article which mentions the doctor who is giving the evaluation
http://www.pistonpowered.com/2009/06/a-doctor-weighs-in-on-dejuan-blair-and-austin-dayes-medical-histories/

Putnam
02-14-2010, 09:28 PM
There is a feeling that this different functionality will ultimately bring on future knee issues, but much of that potential lies with how well the new structure performs and is maintained.

Yep.

A player without ligaments is in danger of a horrific Shawn Livingston-type injury. But there is no certainty that such an injury will ever happen. And the player can go on playing indefinitely unless the injury happens.


Aside from what the Pacers did or didn't do right, I am happy for Blair being out there and making a go of it.

.

AlexAustin
02-14-2010, 09:43 PM
Seth they are in 2 different systems with far different talent surrounding them and one misses training camp, I don't think Blair would be having the same year playing under JOB do you?

MLB007
02-14-2010, 11:03 PM
My comment was in response to people saying "you can hear his joints creek".

As for the general "it's only a matter of time" view on Blair, who says? I've made this point 1000 times, not one expert was able to explain his season LAST YEAR.

When you say "that's impossible" as someone is doing it, you clearly are missing some part of the picture. It is possible somehow, so maybe while we understand how knees normally work there is some other aspect to joint movement and recovery that still escapes us.

Or does someone want to vote for medical science being "done" at this point, having totally captured the nuances of everything human.

And this is why HINES WARD keeps being brought up by me. He had the EXACT SAME ISSUE in one knee prior to the NFL draft. Teams passed on him because of it.

Was it "only a matter of time" for Ward and the physical nature of the NFL? Sure he doesn't run up and down as much perhaps (though 30-40 routes of 10-30 yards per game is a healthy dose of running) and perhaps doesn't jump, but he gets hit in the side of the knee a hellava lot more and probably makes more in-competition cuts on it per week too.

The people saying "we don't know how Blair is doing it" are the same people that said Ward wouldn't make it. The bottom line is that these cases are not yet understood and when people say they know what is going to happen they are lying, or just so wrong that they don't realize it.

I'm not saying I do know what's going on with him. I'm just trying to get this one bit of misinformation fixed. Doctors didn't say "he can't play", they said "that doesn't seem good or healthy" even though he'd been playing on it for a year or more at least (high school injury based situation).

Blair has doctors stumped. Concerned perhaps, but also unable to explain him either. Just like Ward.

Again, the statement isn't "once you lose the ACLs you can only continue as an elite professional athlete for a little longer before the knees go". The statement is "once you lose your ACLs, you're done at that level starting right now". If Granger loses his ACLs (not torn, I mean gone) no one is going to say "well, at least we have 2-3 more great years from him before his knees go". That'll be it right then.

But for Blair it wasn't it because it happened before he ever walked onto the PITT campus, let alone 40+ NBA games.


Maybe he will be done next year or 2 years, but doctors don't know. They are just guessing because his situation is abnormal.

Point out to me where I said it was impossible? (I didn't)
And you clearly completely missed what I said.
Again: IT DOESN"T STOP YOU FROM DOING ANYTHING, it DOES mean that there is "slop" in the joint that IS going to cause him to have arthritis at a much earlier age.
There is nothing "magical" or "abnormal" about what he is doing. Do YOU understand that his knee could blow out at any time??? :hmm: