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90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 10:41 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-boswastrade021210&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


In a dramatic move that would resuscitate their fading championship hopes, the Boston Celtics are discussing a deal with the Washington Wizards for forwards Antawn Jamison(notes) and Caron Butler(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Friday.

The proposed deal would send the expiring contracts of Ray Allen(notes), Brian Scalabrine(notes) and J.R. Giddens(notes) to the Wizards, a move that would signal the start of Washington’s rebuilding process.



The possibility of Boston prying Jamison out of Washington has to be unsettling to the Cleveland Cavaliers. GM Danny Ferry has coveted Jamison for two years, and has made him his No. 1 priority at the trade deadline. The Cavaliers have several contingency plans for losing out on Jamison – topped with Indiana’s Troy Murphy(notes) – but losing Jamison to conference rival Boston would be particularly piercing for the Cavs.


If Washington is having a fire sale, why dont we see what we can do? Blatche / Haywood and Caron could be interesting, I know Bird always liked Mike Miller

Cobalt_Colt
02-12-2010, 10:48 AM
We should get in on this deal and dump TJ I wonder if Boston would really want him for next 2 nothing. (just paying more money but no assests) something like this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yj3p6bo

It's interesting to think about, and if this trade went down it would put us in the driver seat of any trade talk involving Murph since we wouldn't need to salary dump him. Also when we are involved it would save Washinton money, but of course cost Boston some but they are the one picking up the Talented player from us.

But even with out us being involved in this deal I think we win since it moves Murph's biggest obsitcal in being traded.

Shade
02-12-2010, 10:51 AM
Wait a minute, this can't possibly be right. I've been told that expiring contracts alone are no longer capable of netting an All-Star caliber player, let alone two of them...

Anyway, that is a deal that makes a lot of sense for both the Celtics and the Wizards. And if it happens, that would likely make the Cavs panic and pull the trigger for Murphy.

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Wait a minute, this can't possibly be right. I've been told that expiring contracts alone are no longer capable of netting an All-Star caliber player, let alone two of them...

Anyway, that is a deal that makes a lot of sense for both the Celtics and the Wizards. And if it happens, that would likely make the Cavs panic and pull the trigger for Murphy.

And more BS here :

http://my.journaltimes.com/post/woelfel-world-of-sports/bucks_trade_talks_heat_up.html


The Pacers want Ilyasova, but the Bucks don’t want to give him up. Ilyasova is only 22, capable of playing both forward positions and has flashed signs of becoming a big-time scorer.

While he is averaging a modest 10.5 points and 6.3 rebounds, Ilyasova has had five 20-plus games this season, including 25 against the New York and 24 against Portland and the Los Angeles Lakers.

He also had 20-point outing against Orlando and San Antonio, two of the best teams in the NBA.

The Pacers would also like veteran point guard Luke Ridnour, but apparently would still do the deal if he wasn’t included in the package

I am literally sick in my stomach, I know we can not discuss racial issues here , but my God Bird seems set on aquiring as many caucasion players as possible

I dont believ how anyone could look at Birds moves and not see racial overtones

this is sick. im done

JB24
02-12-2010, 11:08 AM
I am literally sick in my stomach, I know we can not discuss racial issues here , but my God Bird seems set on aquiring as many caucasion players as possible

I dont believ how anyone could look at Birds moves and not see racial overtones

this is sick. im done

Maybe it has something to do with Iliasova being their best prospect outside of Jennings and Ridnour being their largest expiring contract? We do know Bird isn't a fan of buying guys out, which would need to happen if you're getting multiple guys back. Is that really so hard to believe?

Regardless, i don't think that goes down. Way too much for Murph.

count55
02-12-2010, 11:14 AM
Anybody with the sense that God gave a frozen waffle would want Ilyasova.

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Anybody with the sense that God gave a frozen waffle would want Ilyasova.

I am not saying he is not a good player I am just saying the patern here.

Its an issue not to be discussed so I will take it in another direction


I dont think we need Ridenauer when we have Diener (simmilar player)

Ilysova is a good player I just dont think we need another "PF" that is not a defender nor athletic, nor has zero low post game

hope that is politically correct :)

JayRedd
02-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Anybody with the sense that God gave a frozen waffle would want Ilyasova.

Love, love, love Ersan Illysova aka Turk Nowitzki.

And Ridnour's been playing his *** off for most of this year, forcing Jennings to the pine late in some cases and in others essentially making Brandon the 2 while Luke runs the point in winning time.

He's obviously expendable in MIL, however, giving the whole "we drafted a franchise PG" thing. Thus, any GM who needs a stopgap point to fill in his gaping backcourt hole would consider tryna snatch him for nothing.

The our one white guy for your two white guys thing would be pretty funny though.

JayRedd
02-12-2010, 11:31 AM
I dont think we need Ridenauer when we have Diener (simmilar player)

Not even close. Ridnour is Watson-or-better-level.

EDIT: Plus he hits threes, so in a JO'B system he gives you the nice "all-offense" option next the Watson "mostly defense" option. (Although Luke plays OK "stay in front of your guy D" even if he's not intimidating anyone physically.) Can play Luke with Brandon and Watson with Head and have two rotation options that don't kill you on either end of the floor.


Ilysova is a good player I just dont think we need another "PF" that is not a defender nor athletic, nor has zero low post game

We need as many 22-year-old players on great contracts as we can get. At best, he produces to the tune of 15/8 next year. At worst, he's an asset we pair with any of our 900 expiring deals next year to land a bonafide NBA baller.

Tom White
02-12-2010, 11:37 AM
I am not saying he is not a good player I am just saying the patern here.

Its an issue not to be discussed so I will take it in another direction


I dont think we need Ridenauer when we have Diener (simmilar player)

Ilysova is a good player I just dont think we need another "PF" that is not a defender nor athletic, nor has zero low post game

hope that is politically correct :)

Just to try to calm you down a bit, look at Bird's draft history.

Williams
White
Hibbert
Rush
Hansbrough
Price

Only one of the six are white.

Recent FA signings.

Watson
Head
D. Jones
S. Jones

Is that enough?

odeez
02-12-2010, 11:43 AM
My question is even with Ray Allen's expiring, Brian Scalabrine and J.R. Giddens contracts, how the H*** can Boston afford to do this??? No way this happens!

imawhat
02-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Love, love, love Ersan Illysova aka Turk Nowitzki.

And Ridnour's been playing his *** off for most of this year, forcing Jennings to the pine late in some cases and in others essentially making Brandon the 2 while Luke runs the point in winning time.

He's obviously expendable in MIL, however, giving the whole "we drafted a franchise PG" thing. Thus, any GM who needs a stopgap point to fill in his gaping backcourt hole would consider tryna snatch him for nothing.

The our one white guy for your two white guys thing would be pretty funny though.

I love love love Illysova too, but just like Hickson and Jason Thompson I fail to see how he complements our other front court players; specifically considering he doesn't address our biggest need at all: defense.

Anthem
02-12-2010, 11:51 AM
I love love love Illysova too, but just like Hickson and Jason Thompson I fail to see how he complements our other front court players; specifically considering he doesn't address our biggest need at all: defense.
Doesn't matter. We're not good enough to worry about how the pieces fit, this is just about acquiring as much talent as possible as quickly as possible.

Once you have talent to work with, you can start making trades to get the pieces to fit.

Pacersfan46
02-12-2010, 11:55 AM
Doesn't matter. We're not good enough to worry about how the pieces fit, this is just about acquiring as much talent as possible as quickly as possible.

Once you have talent to work with, you can start making trades to get the pieces to fit.

I've been trying to preach for a while that "needs" right now is a completely useless concept. I didn't think anyone else got it.

-- Steve --

tadscout
02-12-2010, 12:03 PM
Doesn't matter. We're not good enough to worry about how the pieces fit, this is just about acquiring as much talent as possible as quickly as possible.

Once you have talent to work with, you can start making trades to get the pieces to fit.

Kind of like how Boston a while back turned all of their young talent that didn't fit together into the big 3...

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 12:04 PM
My question is even with Ray Allen's expiring, Brian Scalabrine and J.R. Giddens contracts, how the H*** can Boston afford to do this??? No way this happens!


And they can't keep losing either. They are 5-5 the last 10 games and were losing b4 that. They only have a window of opportunity for so long with KG and even PP to an extent, so they have to do something won't even make it to the ECF.

AlexAustin
02-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Williams
White
Hibbert
Rush
Hansbrough
Price

Only one of the six are white.


Literally and Figuratively

Doug
02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
IMO, it's not so much that Bird is interested in white players - his draft history and free agent signings say otherwise, but that the press and rumor-makers like to associate him with them - Luke Jackson, A Morrison, M Miller, etc. I don't think Bird tries to dissuade them because it helps disguise who he really wants.

I hope I kept that as on-topic and harmless as I could - if not, mods can delete. I won't be offended.

JayRedd
02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
I love love love Illysova too, but just like Hickson and Jason Thompson I fail to see how he complements our other front court players; specifically considering he doesn't address our biggest need at all: defense.

Our biggest need is good players. We have too few. He is one.

First step, get good players.

Next step, figure out how they fit together and then trade the mis-matched ones for other similarly good players who would fit.

Assets, assets, assets.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 12:16 PM
I can see why Boston would do this....and why the Wizards would want to get back a huge Expiring Contract for both Jamison and Butler....but the value that the Wizards get back in return kind of sucks. They essentially trade 2 Starting quality Players for a huge Expiring Contract, Scallops and JR Giddens?

nerveghost
02-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Disregarding the basketball talent of white players seems to be more of a racially charged statement...

Eindar
02-12-2010, 12:17 PM
And they can't keep losing either. They are 5-5 the last 10 games and were losing b4 that. They only have a window of opportunity for so long with KG and even PP to an extent, so they have to do something won't even make it to the ECF.

They aren't the Lakers or the Knicks, but it seems like they would make a lot of revenue when they're selling out every night and selling metric tons of apparel.

Boston fans are rabid, as proven by the Red Sox and Patriots. You can do things with a fanbase like that that other cities couldn't do.


Either that, or their owner has deep enough pockets to not care if he's losing money on his hobby.

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 12:23 PM
Just to try to calm you down a bit, look at Bird's draft history.

Williams
White
Hibbert
Rush
Hansbrough
Price

Only one of the six are white.

Recent FA signings.

Watson
Head
D. Jones
S. Jones

Is that enough?



I understand and I could counter with

Crosher
Murphy
Dunleavy
Stanko
Diener
Sarranus
McRobberts
Tyler
Lorbek

but not supposed to do this so I will stop

CableKC
02-12-2010, 12:43 PM
Okay....just so that we can get this back on topic......looking at this from a trade value perspective......am I the only one that thinks that this trade sucks for the Wizards?

Seriously......the best that the Wizards could get for Jamison and Butler is Ray Allen, some prospect that barely anyone knows about and a backup Stretch PF?

One more thing....anyone else noticing with the Cavs and Celtics that it's becoming a race to collect to put together the best collection of Starting quality Players on one Team?

If this were to happen....look at the Celtics roster:

Rondo, Butler, Pierce, Jamison, KG, Perkins, Sheed

that's 7 Players...not even counting House, Marquis or Tony Allen ( all role Players ).

It's like the 80s Super Powers Arms race.....which Team can "out do" which Team.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 12:46 PM
They already have Rasheed Wallace so the Celtics wanting another 3 point shooting PF is confusing to me.

Naptown_Seth
02-12-2010, 12:51 PM
I can see why Boston would do this....and why the Wizards would want to get back a huge Expiring Contract for both Jamison and Butler....but the value that the Wizards get back in return kind of sucks. They essentially trade 2 Starting quality Players for a huge Expiring Contract, Scallops and JR Giddens?
Wouldn't this indicate just how much WSH wanted no part of a deal with CLE? Cleveland can't possibly be offering less for Jamison than this deal gets them.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 12:53 PM
They already have Rasheed Wallace so the Celtics wanting another 3 point shooting PF is confusing to me.
Jamison could technically be considered a "Stretch PF" that can hit the 3pt shot....but he's more of a Tweener that is capable of hitting the 3pt shot that is more of a SF then he is a PF. His defense basically sucks....but he's more of a versatile Tweener that is athletic and offers more on the Offensive end.

This is why I think the Cavs wanted him over Murphy.....cuz Murphy isn't as versatile as Jamison is on the offensive end.

Pacemaker
02-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Expiring contracts are a beautiful thing !!! We should keep ours !!!



Okay....just so that we can get this back on topic......looking at this from a trade value perspective......am I the only one that thinks that this trade sucks for the Wizards?

Seriously......the best that the Wizards could get for Jamison and Butler is Ray Allen, some prospect that barely anyone knows about and a backup Stretch PF?

One more thing....anyone else noticing with the Cavs and Celtics that it's becoming a race to collect to put together the best collection of Starting quality Players on one Team?

If this were to happen....look at the Celtics roster:

Rondo, Butler, Pierce, Jamison, KG, Perkins, Sheed

that's 7 Players...not even counting House, Marquis or Tony Allen ( all role Players ).

It's like the 80s Super Powers Arms race.....which Team can "out do" which Team.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Wouldn't this indicate just how much WSH wanted no part of a deal with CLE? Cleveland can't possibly be offering less for Jamison than this deal gets them.
Yeah....but still.....I really wonder what other options are out there that the Wizards have when it comes to Butler. I can see some valid reasons as to why Teams would not want Jamison ( mainly his contract )....but Butler ( I'd think ) should be able to net some decent value. Unless Teams are simply low-balling the Wizards and offering Expiring Contracts.....like a straight up Josh Howard trade for Butler....then I can see this as being more palatable as they get to do a huge "Salary Dump" on the Celtics who are in "win now" mode while getting some value for Allen's Expiring Contract.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Jamison could technically be considered a "Stretch PF" that can hit the 3pt shot....but he's more of a Tweener that is capable of hitting the 3pt shot that is more of a SF then he is a PF. His defense basically sucks....but he's more of a versatile Tweener that is athletic and offers more on the Offensive end.

This is why I think the Cavs wanted him over Murphy.....cuz Murphy isn't as versatile as Jamison is on the offensive end.

I just think that playing Wallace and Jamison together isn't a good idea if that team wants defense stops when Garnett and Perkins are sitting down.

I can understand starting one of them to play next to Garnett or Perkins, but not making both of them backups at the same time.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Expiring contracts are a beautiful thing !!! We should keep ours !!!
I will partially agree with you on this.....thus ( slightly ) changing my position on Expiring Contracts....having Expiring Contracts COULD net you a deal like this.

But even if we dumped Murphy...it's not like we don't have 3 other huge Expiring Contracts to parlay out into some trade like this. For me, I'd rather dump Murphy, get out from under the LT threshold for next season ( thus not worrying that we'd HAVE to make a trade to avoid the LT....a goal that I'm pretty sure the Owners would want to avoid ) and then look for whatever opportunities we may have with some trade involving some combination Dunleavy/Ford/Foster's Expiring Contract. Dumping Murphy's Contract gives us some breathing room to allow us to make easier ( as opposed to harder ) choices next season.

One more thing to consider.....with the looming Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations.....if there is a likely change that may effect how much Players get in newly signed contracts going forward.....it maybe a very good thing to have as much 2011-2012 Salary Cap flexibilility. There maybe opportunities to sign some very good players at a good price due to any likely adjustment to the CBA....which can only happen with having as much SalaryCap Flexibility as we can have. If we were to make a trade that would essentially eat up that future SalaryCap flexibility.....it may give us less options. I know this is all based off of assumptions....but I still would value having SalaryCap/Financial Flexibility then not having it. The only way that I'd sacrifice it is if we could get dump one of our Expiring Contracts and get back a "Robin" to Granger's "Batman"....basically a player on the level of Monta/Iggy/Biedrins....essentially a Player that will fit into the future core of Players that we have.

I still think that we'd be looking at getting back "mediocre" Players with longer contracts ( again, think of the GSW/Indy trade that netted us MurphLeavy in the first Place that simply "kicks the can" down the road when it comes to Financial Flexiblility ) as opposed to this level of Players that you're look at here with Boston/Washington ( which still impacts our SalaryCap/Financial flexibilility ).

CableKC
02-12-2010, 01:16 PM
I just think that playing Wallace and Jamison together isn't a good idea if that team wants defense stops when Garnett and Perkins are sitting down.

I can understand starting one of them to play next to Garnett or Perkins, but not making both of them backups at the same time.
Playing Jamison and Sheed together is like JO'B playing Murphy and Hibbert together....it should only be done on a situational ( as opposed to a regular :banghead: ) basis. It's all a matter of substitutions and who you play with at what point.

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Okay....just so that we can get this back on topic......looking at this from a trade value perspective......am I the only one that thinks that this trade sucks for the Wizards?

Seriously......the best that the Wizards could get for Jamison and Butler is Ray Allen, some prospect that barely anyone knows about and a backup Stretch PF?

One more thing....anyone else noticing with the Cavs and Celtics that it's becoming a race to collect to put together the best collection of Starting quality Players on one Team?

If this were to happen....look at the Celtics roster:

Rondo, Butler, Pierce, Jamison, KG, Perkins, Sheed

that's 7 Players...not even counting House, Marquis or Tony Allen ( all role Players ).

It's like the 80s Super Powers Arms race.....which Team can "out do" which Team.


What I dont understand is why does everyone want to help the Celtics it seems?

Ray Allen at his age for Butler and Jameson is to me as lobsided as the Gasol to the Lakers deal

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 02:47 PM
IMO, it's not so much that Bird is interested in white players - his draft history and free agent signings say otherwise, but that the press and rumor-makers like to associate him with them - Luke Jackson, A Morrison, M Miller, etc. I don't think Bird tries to dissuade them because it helps disguise who he really wants.

I hope I kept that as on-topic and harmless as I could - if not, mods can delete. I won't be offended.

The funny thing about it is I remember when Isiah Thomas was the coach and certain people on here were screaming he was racist because he wouldnt play Crosher

works both ways but I just want a good basketball team, and to me they dont all have to be choir boys, and that has nothing to do with race

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 02:50 PM
Wouldn't this indicate just how much WSH wanted no part of a deal with CLE? Cleveland can't possibly be offering less for Jamison than this deal gets them.

Good point man

As I read somewhere earlier there seems to be bad blood between Washington and Cleveland going back to LeBron/DeShawn and I think GM of the Wizzards, Ernie Grunfield would only deal with Cleveland for a severly one sided deal

Tom White
02-12-2010, 03:07 PM
........The only way that I'd sacrifice it is if we could get dump one of our Expiring Contracts and get back a "Robin" to Granger's "Batman"....

I still don't think Granger is of the "Batman" level....and in the comic books, they killed off Robin.

Anthem
02-12-2010, 03:18 PM
I'd love to see Jamison here next to Danny. Heck, if they're giving him away we should get in on that.

Trade Troy for expirings, then flip those for Jamison immediately? He'd solve a lot of what's wrong with our team.

Anthem
02-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Kind of like how Boston a while back turned all of their young talent that didn't fit together into the big 3...
Exactly. I almost said that very thing but was worried about opening that rabbit trail. But yeah, I think Boston's situation is VERY similar.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Playing Jamison and Sheed together is like JO'B playing Murphy and Hibbert together....it should only be done on a situational ( as opposed to a regular :banghead: ) basis. It's all a matter of substitutions and who you play with at what point.

I agree. That team is coached well under Rivers so he would probably use those 2 guys much better than JOB would if he had the 2 of them.

sportfireman
02-12-2010, 03:24 PM
I'd love to see Jamison here next to Danny. Heck, if they're giving him away we should get in on that.

Trade Troy for expirings, then flip those for Jamison immediately? He'd solve a lot of what's wrong with our team.

you mean a 3 way deal...............How long does a player have to be with a team before being traded again?

Anthem
02-12-2010, 03:49 PM
you mean a 3 way deal...............How long does a player have to be with a team before being traded again?
Off the top of my head, I think the rule is that you can do a deal in the 24 hours following, or you can move them by themselves immediately. If you want to move them with another player, you have to wait X amount of time, where X in our case is "not until summer."

pwee31
02-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Looks like the Wizard may go to the Mavs, instead of Celtics, and not give up jamison

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=4909238



DALLAS -- Long-running trade talks between the Dallas Mavericks and Washington Wizards have taken a fresh twist now that the teams have seriously discussed the prospect of packaging center Brendan Haywood to Dallas in the same deal with Wizards forward Caron Butler, according to sources close to the discussions.

Talks between the teams had stalled in the past week, partly because of Washington's insistence that the Mavericks take guard DeShawn Stevenson in any Butler deal, but the potential for acquiring two front-line players -- since Butler and Haywood would immediately become key rotation players for the Mavs -- has renewed Dallas' interest.

Sources told ESPN.com that the teams' negotiations only turned more serious Friday on a deal that would send Josh Howard, Drew Gooden and some smaller cap-friendly contracts to Washington for Butler, Haywood and Stevenson.

A trade featuring Washington is widely regarded as the first major domino that needs to fall to loosen things up around the league in advance of Thursday's annual trade deadline.

Three sources with knowledge of the teams' discussions said Friday afternoon that the Wizards and Mavericks were making progress toward a deal, which would enable Washington to truly launch its rebuilding efforts, realize significant financial relief in the midst of a disastrous season and achieve those aims without giving up forward Antawn Jamison, which is the Wizards' preference.

The possible acquisitions of Butler and Haywood, meanwhile, would be a welcome spark for the sputtering Mavericks, with Butler moving into the spot vacated by the out-of-favor Howard and Haywood arriving as another rim-protecting defensive anchor in the wake of a knee injury that has compromised the effectiveness of Mavs center Erick Dampier.

Acquiring Haywood and having the chance to re-sign him this summer would likely fill the void Dallas thought it filled last summer, when the Mavs signed Orlando center Marcin Gortat to a lucrative offer sheet, only for the Magic to unexpectedly match the offer to the restricted free agent.

Yet there are undeniable impediments to a Washington-Dallas deal. The Wizards, according to sources, would still rather make the smaller deal with Dallas reported by ESPN.com on Feb. 5: Butler and Stevenson for Howard and a small expiring contract such as James Singleton or Quinton Ross.

Hicks
02-12-2010, 06:13 PM
So what is the deal, exactly, in theory? Dampier for Butler and Haywoode?

Hicks
02-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Wait, I see now it's Howard, not Dampier.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 06:17 PM
So what is the deal, exactly, in theory? Dampier for Butler and Haywoode?


Yeah Josh Howard and Drew Gooden (both expiring I believe) and another small contract or so, for Butler and Haywoode

MLB007
02-13-2010, 12:42 PM
And more BS here :

http://my.journaltimes.com/post/woelfel-world-of-sports/bucks_trade_talks_heat_up.html



I am literally sick in my stomach, I know we can not discuss racial issues here , but my God Bird seems set on aquiring as many caucasion players as possible

I dont believ how anyone could look at Birds moves and not see racial overtones

this is sick. im done

Wow, ummm, Murph is white too................. :D

90'sNBARocked
02-13-2010, 12:49 PM
Wow, ummm, Murph is white too................. :D

I realize that,

but all you have to do is look at the comments section on a Pacers article, or check any other fan boards

they constantly crack jokes about us being the whitest team, how Bird only wants another white superstar were the joke of the rest of the league


Then on top of it he supposedly wants Illysas(sp) and Riddnauer?

Tom White
02-13-2010, 01:09 PM
I realize that,

but all you have to do is look at the comments section on a Pacers article, or check any other fan boards

they constantly crack jokes about us being the whitest team, how Bird only wants another white superstar were the joke of the rest of the league


Then on top of it he supposedly wants Illysas(sp) and Riddnauer?

Ah, well, when (mostly) anonymous posters on a fan board or somewhere say things like that, then I guess we should truly all hang ours heads in shame. I mean, they must be highly intelligent experts on most subjects, right?

I guess most posters here (including myself) just don't measure up to their level of insight, because we haven't fully grasped what sort of underhanded evil plan Bird is up to.

By the way, I think the players names are Ilyasova and Ridnour.

Hicks
02-13-2010, 01:38 PM
Not to mention that we're learning that the best way for Larry not to look racist is to simply make all his trades, picks, and signings based on the color of the skin of the players. As soon as he consciously excludes all white people from his considerations, he won't be racist anymore. Yeah. That's it.