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Smoothdave1
02-11-2010, 10:47 PM
If you're Bird or Morway, which deal do you do?

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 11:08 PM
I'm with the Kevin Martin scenario. He is by far the best player we are going to be able to get in the next few years besides lucking out in the draft and that is always a crap shoot, even after the 3-year plan is complete. What free agents of his skill, age and contract could we possibly get? I can't think of any others better.
I don't want to give up Rush though, I would tweak it a bit. Maybe give up the pick, or someone else on the team. A Murph for Martin only maybe.

cdash
02-11-2010, 11:10 PM
I like the idea of acquiring Ray Allen and benching him so he can't get closer to Reggie's record. That was a good one.

imawhat
02-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Without a doubt, the move to bring in Ray Allen. That could be huge.

I think the savings could be significant enough to erase some doubts about the Pacers leaving Indiana (just one year's savings, but that's not insignificant). Or if we're playing it risky, it could allow us to sign a decently significant piece in the offseason. And I guarantee it, there will be several players with great value as the free agent period winds down and teams have spent their money. We may be able to get a good player for cheap.

Plus, I think it gives us a shot to make the playoffs this year. I see this as a win-win-win, but then again, I don't believe in tanking.

PacerGuy
02-11-2010, 11:21 PM
I like Ray because we move Ford, & Ray would be the perfect mentor for Rush to learn from. IMO they have simular personalities (quiet), but Allen has the confidence that Rush does not.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 11:22 PM
no way, we need Murphy

Sookie
02-11-2010, 11:22 PM
Getting rid of TJ and Troy..and getting back Ray Ray..plus not helping the Lebrons...I like it. Seriously..if this is an option, why hasn't it happened?

Ray's also a pretty well known player, there would be more butts in the seats.

Where is this trade rumor from?

Edit: only possible probem is that with Ray Allen being the 3Pt shooter that he is, Rush might never see the floor again.

imawhat
02-11-2010, 11:24 PM
Can I make a suggestion? Westphal for O'Brien.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 11:52 PM
Plus, I think it gives us a shot to make the playoffs this year. I see this as a win-win-win, but then again, I don't believe in tanking.

You were making good sense until you got to the above. It's mathematically possible but we realistically have no shot at making the playoffs.

The teams holding down the last playoff spots are playing near .500, and Milwaukee is right behind them.

We would have to go 23-7, which is .766 ball to reach .500. Only Cleveland is playing better than that this year.

That means you think Ray Allen would make us a contender. What have you been drinking? I want some!

LoneGranger33
02-11-2010, 11:53 PM
I wouldn't want to trade Murphy for Kevin Martin straight up, so I certainly would not tolerate throwing Brandon Rush in for free.

HC
02-12-2010, 12:00 AM
I would like to get Hickson or maybe Jason Thompson who hasn't really been mentioned. Otherwise I sit on Murphy this year.

imawhat
02-12-2010, 12:01 AM
You were making good sense until you got to the above. It's mathematically possible but we realistically have no shot at making the playoffs.

The teams holding down the last playoff spots are playing near .500, and Milwaukee is right behind them.

We would have to go 23-7, which is .766 ball to reach .500. Only Cleveland is playing better than that this year.

That means you think Ray Allen would make us a contender. What have you been drinking? I want some!

Ouch. I haven't followed the playoff race in weeks, so I had no idea the seeds were all playing around or above .500 ball.

I think people underestimate the negative impact of having Murphy on the floor with O'Brien as coach, plus Ray Allen is a significant talent addition. But I'm not sure we'd go 23-7 if we traded for Lebron.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 01:22 AM
What I wonder, is if the Pacers do land a young PF through a trade, and you add that to a healthy Hansbrough next year, and you add THAT to a draft top heavy with forwards, if the Pacers don't get Wall or Turner, do you then trade the pick for backcourt help?

Obviously we would like a top flight PG, and of course the verdict is still out on Rush at the SG, might we trade the pick this year?

CableKC
02-12-2010, 02:05 AM
Getting rid of TJ and Troy..and getting back Ray Ray..plus not helping the Lebrons...I like it. Seriously..if this is an option, why hasn't it happened?

Ray's also a pretty well known player, there would be more butts in the seats.

Where is this trade rumor from?

Edit: only possible probem is that with Ray Allen being the 3Pt shooter that he is, Rush might never see the floor again.
I doubt Ray would be coming to Indy, but if he did.....JO'B would bench Inferno no BRush. Remember.....BRush is a better 3pt shooter than Inferno.

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 05:24 AM
Plus, I think it gives us a shot to make the playoffs this year.


Do you work in the Pacers organization?

mildlysane
02-12-2010, 07:30 AM
I would probably favor a trade to the Western Conference. I hate helping any teams in the East, especially the Cavs or the Celtics. However, I don't think I would want to give up Rush just to move Murphy. His on-ball defense is way too good to let it go for some young prospect or an offensive-minded 2. I guess, if given the choices above, I would have to stand pat, or actively search for another trading partner. My thing is this....I hope that Bird isn't being shut out of some trades, just due to who he is. I know he pissed off alot of players back in the day (with his play and his mouth). Some of those players are now GMs, or have ties to some clubs. Sometimes I think that is why some of the better players in the league do not make great GMs. *couldn't beat them on the court, so lets beat them in the front office.*

chrisjacobs7
02-12-2010, 08:12 AM
I would probably favor a trade to the Western Conference. I hate helping any teams in the East, especially the Cavs or the Celtics. However, I don't think I would want to give up Rush just to move Murphy. His on-ball defense is way too good to let it go for some young prospect or an offensive-minded 2. I guess, if given the choices above, I would have to stand pat, or actively search for another trading partner. My thing is this....I hope that Bird isn't being shut out of some trades, just due to who he is. I know he pissed off alot of players back in the day (with his play and his mouth). Some of those players are now GMs, or have ties to some clubs. Sometimes I think that is why some of the better players in the league do not make great GMs. *couldn't beat them on the court, so lets beat them in the front office.*

If a GM thinks a trade is good for their team, they aren't going to refuse simply because of who the other GM is.

mildlysane
02-12-2010, 08:28 AM
If a GM thinks a trade is good for their team, they aren't going to refuse simply because of who the other GM is.
I can agree to this statement; however, if the GM has multiple choices, and Bird was behind one of them....Sorry, I am a sucker for conspiracies!

Unclebuck
02-12-2010, 08:34 AM
Although I enjoy all the trade discussion, I would have no problem if the Pacers did nothing in the next week with the thought being that this summer they will get better trade offers as they have several expiring contracts coming up in 1 year, or even waiting until next years deadline, or even just letting the contracts expire.

Bottonline is the Pacers have never been in this situation before and they may never again - having so many expiring contracts at the same time with players they want to get rid of anyway, they will only get one opportunity here and it may never happen again, so they need to get the most that the can for these contracts/players and if that means waiting 4 months or 12 months or 16 months, I can certainly wait.

Bird needs to be thinking about the next 18 months, not just the next week

bambam
02-12-2010, 10:41 AM
Although I enjoy all the trade discussion, I would have no problem if the Pacers did nothing in the next week with the thought being that this summer they will get better trade offers as they have several expiring contracts coming up in 1 year, or even waiting until next years deadline, or even just letting the contracts expire.

Bottonline is the Pacers have never been in this situation before and they may never again - having so many expiring contracts at the same time with players they want to get rid of anyway, they will only get one opportunity here and it may never happen again, so they need to get the most that the can for these contracts/players and if that means waiting 4 months or 12 months or 16 months, I can certainly wait.

Bird needs to be thinking about the next 18 months, not just the next week

I can agree and see your point. but you also cant shut the door on everything this next week. we only have heard rumors, who knows what offers are out there. i personally like the free agents after this season more that after next season. here is a what if...Troy gets injured from now till next deadline and now he is only worth the expiring contract instead of a good player and expiring contract. IMO, Troy is playing at his best of his career...I dont mind possibly waiting, but if young talent and expiring contract is offered for Murphy then you have to really consider getting cap room for the 2010 free agent class.

If somehow some way Bird is able to free up 15-20 (thsi would have to be Murphy, Ford, or another player) after this season, you really have to consider pulling deals for open market in summer.

Granville
02-12-2010, 11:02 AM
I can agree and see your point. but you also cant shut the door on everything this next week. we only have heard rumors, who knows what offers are out there. i personally like the free agents after this season more that after next season. here is a what if...Troy gets injured from now till next deadline and now he is only worth the expiring contract instead of a good player and expiring contract. IMO, Troy is playing at his best of his career...I dont mind possibly waiting, but if young talent and expiring contract is offered for Murphy then you have to really consider getting cap room for the 2010 free agent class.

If somehow some way Bird is able to free up 15-20 (thsi would have to be Murphy, Ford, or another player) after this season, you really have to consider pulling deals for open market in summer.

Based on what UB wrote, I think he agrees with you, and I know I certainly do. I am not saying don't do anything for the next 18 months. What I am saying is don't take your eyes off the ultimate goal of financial flexibility and completing the "tear down."

If a deal can happen today that helps reach that goal, go for it. But if they are just doing a deal to add some marginal talent but less payroll flexibility, then don't do anything.

To me, and this is probably way too simplistic, the Pacers are like the family who is trying to fight their way out of bad credit card debt. The family gets a plan to pay off the cards and is working hard towards more financial freedom in two or three years. In the meantime, things will be a bit lean. They need to fight the urge to go out and buy more things unless the new items will make a big difference in their lives. New purchases that provide only a marginal impact are not worth the extra time it will take to getting to the goal of paying off the credit cards.

Murphy and Ford are bad credit card debt. I like the choice of the Celtics trade because it gets us out of a lot of bad debt. I don't think Allen would even ever suit up for the Pacers (I think he'd be bought out so he could finish the season with a contender), but we'd accelerate getting rid of our bad debt. That, to me, speeds up the rebuilding process faster than getting a decent player with a long term contract.

Infinite MAN_force
02-12-2010, 01:49 PM
Although I enjoy all the trade discussion, I would have no problem if the Pacers did nothing in the next week with the thought being that this summer they will get better trade offers as they have several expiring contracts coming up in 1 year, or even waiting until next years deadline, or even just letting the contracts expire.

Bottonline is the Pacers have never been in this situation before and they may never again - having so many expiring contracts at the same time with players they want to get rid of anyway, they will only get one opportunity here and it may never happen again, so they need to get the most that the can for these contracts/players and if that means waiting 4 months or 12 months or 16 months, I can certainly wait.

Bird needs to be thinking about the next 18 months, not just the next week

The thing about this line of thinking is, even if we trade murphy now we will still have enough expirings to trade for a max contract if we wanted to. You can get plenty done with Dunleavy, Ford, and Foster's contracts.

Also, the only way to get out of paying the luxury tax next year is to trade one of those contracts now for a contract that expires THIS year. You can't do that in the summer.

Unclebuck
02-12-2010, 02:05 PM
The thing about this line of thinking is, even if we trade murphy now we will still have enough expirings to trade for a max contract if we wanted to. You can get plenty done with Dunleavy, Ford, and Foster's contracts.

Also, the only way to get out of paying the luxury tax next year is to trade one of those contracts now for a contract that expires THIS year. You can't do that in the summer.

I suppose I was thinking ahead to the probability that a trade does not take place this week and all the wringing of hands and threats that will come from this forum. the underlying sentiment will be why didn't the pacers do something, anything