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View Full Version : Pacers' Murphy to Kings for Kevin Martin?



td#12
02-11-2010, 04:40 PM
no link!

It looks somewhat likely that this might have a significant shot of going down, what would you guys think?

Shade
02-11-2010, 04:44 PM
Is this the same deal that includes Boston, or a straight Murphy/Martin swap?

td#12
02-11-2010, 04:45 PM
That's all the article says, so I assume the Kings would be packaging something else to us as well, but it wouldn't be including Boston, no.

spreedom
02-11-2010, 04:46 PM
Word I've read is that it would likely be a trade centered around the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas (with Donte Green as possible filler). I'd take that deal.

Shade
02-11-2010, 04:47 PM
The main knock on KMart right now is that he doesn't really play any defense. Does that help us in the long-term? His contract is 2 years longer than Murphy's.

avoidingtheclowns
02-11-2010, 04:49 PM
The main knock on KMart right now is that he doesn't really play any defense.

Well, to be fair his defense is only a concern the few times he can make it onto the court.

Shade
02-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Word I've read is that it would likely be a trade centered around the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas (with Donte Green as possible filler). I'd take that deal.

How about Murphy and T.J. for Martin, Thomas, and Greene?

Shade
02-11-2010, 04:50 PM
Well, to be fair his defense is only a concern the few times he can make it onto the court.

:rimshot:

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 04:50 PM
Murphy doesn't exactly play defense either, difference is he allows 4's and 5's to abuse us and we don't really have anyone to offset that (Roy's usually busy). Martin not playing any defense on 2's and 3's could be somewhat offset my Rush's defense.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 04:51 PM
where is the link? I want to see were is that coming from

avoidingtheclowns
02-11-2010, 04:55 PM
where is the link? I want to see were is that coming from

It's a blurb on Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NBA.aspx) but it's just Sam Amick's Sac Bee piece (http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html) that has been posted in the other Murphy thread.

td#12
02-11-2010, 04:55 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html

Trophy
02-11-2010, 04:56 PM
We'd be backed with wingmen unless we can move Mike somehow and put Dahntay as a backup SF then we'd be fine with an odd man out.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 05:07 PM
The only way this happens is if the Pacers include more pieces than Murphy and draft picks, maybe Rush or price plus picks and Kmart is always hurt so I would say no thanks.

Shade
02-11-2010, 05:11 PM
So, if this were to happen, who would play PF?

Smmmmmaaaallllll baaaaaalllllll!!!!

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 05:12 PM
So, if this were to happen, who would play PF?

Smmmmmaaaallllll baaaaaalllllll!!!!

Djones or Diener

Shade
02-11-2010, 05:13 PM
The only way this happens is if the Pacers include more pieces than Murphy and draft picks, maybe Rush or price plus picks and Kmart is always hurt so I would say no thanks.

The Kings probably want to get rid of Martin because:

1) He's injury-prone
2) He has 3 years left on his contract
3) They have Tyreke Evans

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 05:13 PM
I don't buy that we might bring in Kevin Martin at all. If a trade with Sacramento happens, I think it shakes down much different than the Martin deal and we end up with Kenny Thomas' contract and a young PF.

kellogg
02-11-2010, 05:15 PM
Murphy doesn't exactly play defense either, difference is he allows 4's and 5's to abuse us and we don't really have anyone to offset that (Roy's usually busy).

Agreed...

ABUSE

CableKC
02-11-2010, 05:16 PM
The main knock on KMart right now is that he doesn't really play any defense. Does that help us in the long-term? His contract is 2 years longer than Murphy's.
Ignoring that I don't think that Geoff Petrie is that bad of a GM to do a "straight-up" trade of KMart for Murphy......IMHO....if this trade were to happen in "Imagination Land".....KMart does help us long-term.

I'm guessing here....but I have never read that his defense was SO BAD that he'd be any worse then average. I'd take a future Starting SG/SF core of Granger and KMart with BRush and Inferno backing them up anyday. If we ever wanted a Robin for our Batman...KMart would be a good one to have.

Also...IMHO...his contract is pretty much comprable to Granger's contract ( but slightly less ) ....which isn't really that bad for a 2nd Tier Player like KMart and Granger.

pwee31
02-11-2010, 05:17 PM
So, if this were to happen, who would play PF?

Smmmmmaaaallllll baaaaaalllllll!!!!

That wouldn't really matter to me. If Kevin Martin stays healthy... big IF, then we have a nice combo in Granger/Martin to build around. We have Hansbrough who can play the 4, and Hibbert at the 5, throw in a solid PG and we're doing business, let's not forget our draft pick.


But everything aside, I'm pretty sure it won't be Martin for Murphy.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 05:23 PM
But everything aside, I'm pretty sure it won't be Martin for Murphy.

Agree, that's not going to happen.

90'sNBARocked
02-11-2010, 05:27 PM
It looks somewhat likely that this might have a significant shot of going down, what would you guys think?

The only thing that scares me about Martin is defense and injuries

Gamble1
02-11-2010, 05:27 PM
The main knock on KMart right now is that he doesn't really play any defense. Does that help us in the long-term? His contract is 2 years longer than Murphy's.
So your saying he's already a Pacer.:)

odeez
02-11-2010, 05:41 PM
ESPN's Marc Stein reported each team's offer, Cleveland: Cleveland offered Zydrunas Ilgauskas straight up for Troy Murphy. Cleveland will only do this trade if they know Ilgauskas will get a buy out so he can return. Milwaukee: Milwaukee offered Hakim Warrick, Kurt Thomas and Dan Gadzuric for Troy Murphy. This trade is on hold because Indiana doesn't want Gadzuric's contract on the books. Sacramento: Sacramento offered Jason Thompson and Kenny Thomas for Troy Murphy. Indiana likes this deal the best but is holding out for a better deal.

Just got this off Sports Illustrated website, but it is obviously from ESPN, so I don't really have a link. I would like the Jason Thompson deal! I have seen him play a few times, he young and has some skills. He could play the PF position for us, can't believe they want to move him for Troy, if the above info is true.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_thompson/

esabyrn333
02-11-2010, 05:42 PM
Kmart and Danny are the same age.

What is Kmarts injury history? What all problems has he had?

Maybe we are gonna throw in a 2nd round pick. Who knows but I like the sound of that Kmart in Indy even though it seems a little unlikely.

I'm gonna be impressed if Larry can turn Troy into KMart

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 05:49 PM
If they're offering Kenny Thomas and Jason Thompson, I don't know what we're waiting for. I'd be all over that like stink on ****.

-- Steve --

IU_sears
02-11-2010, 05:53 PM
I agree, but to Bird's defense... it appears that deals are starting to sweeten up a bit! Maybe we should slow play this through the All Star break and keep the bidding war going. It sounds like we have the hottest "available" commodity on the market.

If we were able to pry Kevin Martin away, I feel like that would be a helluva deal for Bird. Martin is the closest thing to a Reggie clone I have seen in some time, he has a quick and deadly trigger from range and shoots a high percentage at the line. This would be a great addition. We have Inferno and Rush to play defense when we need a stopper on the floor.

Jason Thompson is an intriguing PF project. Wow, he would be a great tandem downlow with Roy.

sweabs
02-11-2010, 05:53 PM
Jason Thompson is a beast. For that reason, I do not see us getting him.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 05:53 PM
If they're offering Kenny Thomas and Jason Thompson, I don't know what we're waiting for. I'd be all over that like stink on ****.

-- Steve --

Their not.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap/
http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/wiretap/team/sac_40.gifSources close to the Pacers say there is significant interest from Sacramento in Troy Murphy.
The Kings are pursuing a straight up deal centered around the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas ($8.5 million).
Indiana would surely push to include at least one of the Kings prospects such as Donte Greene.

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 06:00 PM
Their not.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap/
http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/wiretap/team/sac_40.gifSources close to the Pacers say there is significant interest from Sacramento in Troy Murphy.
The Kings are pursuing a straight up deal centered around the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas ($8.5 million).
Indiana would surely push to include at least one of the Kings prospects such as Donte Greene.

All depends on what source you believe. You never know! But even they say the Pacers would push for one of their young players with Kenny, which is exactly what Thompson/Thomas would be.

Ah, who knows.

-- Steve --

Trophy
02-11-2010, 06:02 PM
Can someone tell me how good they think Hawes' defense is? I'm not betting on the Kings looking to part with him, but I've seen him a few times with the Kings in games and his defense is pretty good.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 06:04 PM
Jason Thompson is a beast. For that reason, I do not see us getting him.


I'd love to have Thompson, but I thought he was not a player they were willing to trade. Interesting to say the least. It would make not having to draft a PF this year.

odeez
02-11-2010, 06:21 PM
Jason Thompson is a beast. For that reason, I do not see us getting him.

exactly, why would they want to trade him away?

d_c
02-11-2010, 06:51 PM
If they're offering Kenny Thomas and Jason Thompson, I don't know what we're waiting for.

I'm pretty sure Bird would've driven Troy to the airport by now if the Kings offered that.

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Trade rumors like this make me tend to believe that Troy has some big time trading value. If its as big as these sources tend to make us believe, we would have no choice but to wait longer, perhaps until next deadline to get even better players. Perhaps we could send Mike for Kenny Thomas.

But I would have no problems with trading Troy for Thompson or Martin at all. If we could land them both, I think we would have no choice but to all buy season tickets, and sell Conseco out every game because of Larry. He'd easily be executive of the year.

I'm done daydreaming. Its probably just Kenny Thomas and a 2nd for Troy.

pacergod2
02-11-2010, 07:10 PM
I think that the Marc Stein report is accurate. I have heard on a couple of occasions that the Kings have been throwing Jason Thompson's name out there to see what they could get. Troy's second year doesn't hurt their cap situation because they have so many young players and draft picks coming in that they have the room and no ability to go after free agents in essence. There are a ton of PFs in this upcoming draft that they will be able to replace Thompson without any problem. The Thomas and Thompson for Murphy deal makes sense that we haven't accepted that deal because we probably like Hickson more than Thompson and are telling Cleveland to pony up Z and Hickson if they want Troy. So we are waiting to hear back from them. And we probably now want some cash to make up the difference of what it would cost us to buy out Z and cut Kenny Thomas.

The Milwaukee one makes sense and I mentioned almost an identical trade idea in the trade forum. I think I have Joe Alexander in place of Hakim Warrick, who have similar deals. I don't like getting Gadzuric's two years back though.

I love the Sacramento deal.

IUfan4life
02-11-2010, 07:25 PM
I think that the Marc Stein report is accurate. I have heard on a couple of occasions that the Kings have been throwing Jason Thompson's name out there to see what they could get. Troy's second year doesn't hurt their cap situation because they have so many young players and draft picks coming in that they have the room and no ability to go after free agents in essence. There are a ton of PFs in this upcoming draft that they will be able to replace Thompson without any problem. The Thomas and Thompson for Murphy deal makes sense that we haven't accepted that deal because we probably like Hickson more than Thompson and are telling Cleveland to pony up Z and Hickson if they want Troy. So we are waiting to hear back from them. And we probably now want some cash to make up the difference of what it would cost us to buy out Z and cut Kenny Thomas.

The Milwaukee one makes sense and I mentioned almost an identical trade idea in the trade forum. I think I have Joe Alexander in place of Hakim Warrick, who have similar deals. I don't like getting Gadzuric's two years back though.

I love the Sacramento deal.

please for the love of god let us get jason thompson

d_c
02-11-2010, 07:32 PM
Trade rumors like this make me tend to believe that Troy has some big time trading value. If its as big as these sources tend to make us believe, we would have no choice but to wait longer, perhaps until next deadline to get even better players. Perhaps we could send Mike for Kenny Thomas.

But I would have no problems with trading Troy for Thompson or Martin at all. If we could land them both, I think we would have no choice but to all buy season tickets, and sell Conseco out every game because of Larry. He'd easily be executive of the year.

I'm done daydreaming. Its probably just Kenny Thomas and a 2nd for Troy.

Just from a different perspective (http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36032)

Lance George
02-11-2010, 07:43 PM
Looks like your typical delusional, one-sided fanboyism to me. Thankfully such nonsense is limited to message boards and people with IQs above 40 (NBA GMs) make the actual decisions.

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Yep, too good to be true.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 07:48 PM
Wow Greene is 6-11?

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Looks like your typical delusional, one-sided fanboyism to me. Thankfully such nonsense is limited to message boards and people with IQs above 40 (NBA GMs) make the actual decisions.

Actually for the most part these come from NBA writers, not "fanboys".

:rolleyes:

-- Steve --

d_c
02-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Looks like your typical delusional, one-sided fanboyism to me. Thankfully such nonsense is regulated to message boards and people with IQs above 40 (NBA GMs) make the actual decisions.

Uh, that's what fan message boards are typically full of. I've seen it here and many other places. Every fan wants something of value for their trash.

Ironically, it's kind of what teams do to each other: They lowball eachother, bigtime. That's what individual teams they do for about 360 days out of the year. They offer crap assets to try to steal something of value from another team. I mean, it's not like it hurts to ask and everyone does it, so nobody looks the worse for doing it.

The Kings are probably offering Thomas and Udrih for Murphy and some other filler. The Pacers are probably asking for Thomas and Thompson, or at the very least Thomas and Greene. I seriously doubt any trade like that goes down.

d_c
02-11-2010, 07:51 PM
Wow Greene is 6-11?

LOL. He measured out at 6'8.25"

So he kind of "fudged" it to 6'11". Just a little.

Lance George
02-11-2010, 08:27 PM
Actually for the most part these come from NBA writers, not "fanboys".

:rolleyes:

-- Steve --
I was referring to the Kings fans in d_c's link.


Wow Greene is 6-11?

6'8" 1/4 barefoot, so a little over 6'9" in shoes. He's tall enough and long enough to play the four, I just don't know why we'd want another soft, perimeter-based PF, especially when it's clear he's a natural three.



Uh, that's what fan message boards are typically full of. I've seen it here and many other places. Every fan wants something of value for their trash.
Yes, hence my use of the word "typical".


Ironically, it's kind of what teams do to each other: They lowball eachother, bigtime. That's what individual teams they do for about 360 days out of the year. They offer crap assets to try to steal something of value from another team. I mean, it's not like it hurts to ask and everyone does it, so nobody looks the worse for doing it.

The Kings are probably offering Thomas and Udrih for Murphy and some other filler. The Pacers are probably asking for Thomas and Thompson, or at the very least Thomas and Greene. I seriously doubt any trade like that goes down.
GMs can make a play for a one-sided "home run deal" all they want, however if they want to actually get something done they're gonna have to be reasonable.

skyfire
02-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Surely they aren't going to give us Thomas' expiring and Thompson. Udrih and Thompson might be more realistic if they are really looking at dealing Thompson.

Still if you can get a solid PG and young PF with some potential for Murphy you jump all over that.

I find it a bit odd that Sacto would want to deal Thompson for Murphy. He had a great start to the year but his play has fallen off considerably recently. Not sure what the cause of that would be. Thompson seems to rack up a lot of fouls, he has fouled out 8 times already this season.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 08:46 PM
If we plan on using Greene as a SF then what would we do with Mike and his time? Unless we can move him, we'd be good with giving everyone fair time.

BornReady
02-11-2010, 08:50 PM
man these sac deals make me want to say screw the cavs and not trade with them, esp since they essentially want to get murphy for free :D

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 08:55 PM
I was referring to the Kings fans in d_c's link.

Well then I agree, but use quotes so people know what you're referring to. :)

-- Steve --

rexnom
02-11-2010, 09:13 PM
I still don't understand why in God's name the Kings would want Murphy.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 09:17 PM
[QUOTE=GrangeRusHibbert;958567]

enough to play the four, I just don't know why we'd want another soft, perimeter-based PF, especially when it's clear he's a natural three./QUOTE]


Because Greene is the exact type player the Pacers don't have. He can play the 2, 3, & 4. Dunleavy's replacement who is more ATHLETIC, YOUNGER, and CHEAPER for the future. Who knows how Dunleavy injury is going to turn out.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 09:21 PM
If we plan on using Greene as a SF then what would we do with Mike and his time?


Shut Dunleavy down for the rest of the season, and use his expiring as trade fodder next season.

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 09:21 PM
I still don't understand why in God's name the Kings would want Murphy.

Troy is actually considered one of the best stretch 4s in the game right now, outside of Pacers Digest.

QuickRelease
02-11-2010, 09:24 PM
If the Kings wanted Murph and Rush for Martin and Greene, would you do it?

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 09:30 PM
If the Kings wanted Murph and Rush for Martin and Greene, would you do it?

I have been agonizing over this Martin talk before there were even any talk about the Pacers and Kings. see here: http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=50226

I would do everything I can to keep Rush, offering up our protected pick instead. He would be the perfect 6th man for Kevin/Danny,

idioteque
02-11-2010, 09:30 PM
Troy is a great stretch 4 and good do great things in the right system. Troy is our 2010 Sam Perkins.

However, giving O'Brien a good stretch 4 is very similar to giving a drunk 16 year old a Porsche and telling him to drive as fast as he can.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 09:35 PM
If the Kings wanted Murph and Rush for Martin and Greene, would you do it?

I would hate to give up Rush. I wouldn't involve him in any trades.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 09:39 PM
If the Kings wanted Murph and Rush for Martin and Greene, would you do it?


NO. I don't want to be tied to Martin's albatross contract, and I don't like his injury history.

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 09:40 PM
It's only an Albatross contract if the guy sucks...

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 09:48 PM
It's only an Albatross contract if the guy sucks...

Why is "Albatross" capitalized? Did she change her name to Jessica Albatross or something?

-- Steve --

DGPR
02-11-2010, 10:03 PM
If the Kings wanted Murph and Rush for Martin and Greene, would you do it?

I would do this trade. Think about the future of the team with Price Martin Granger Greene Hibbert. If Greene turns out to be the player everybody thinks he should be then that sounds like a very talented squad.

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 10:07 PM
Kevin Martin is better than Danny Granger. How is his contract albatross?

avoidingtheclowns
02-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Just from a different perspective (http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36032)

Is it weird that the my first thought when seeing the page was "I don't remember trading DocHolliday to the Kings" ?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2731/4349757283_b22a626130_o.png (http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=719173#post719173) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4350511180_386f9cbe45_o.png

d_c
02-11-2010, 10:13 PM
I still don't understand why in God's name the Kings would want Murphy.

They'd want him if it meant shipping Udrih out of town, but I doubt Bird would want anything to do with that.

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 10:21 PM
Kevin Martin is better than Danny Granger. How is his contract albatross?

I fail to see how Kevin Martin is any better than Danny.

-- Steve --

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
Why is "Albatross" capitalized? Did she change her name to Jessica Albatross or something?

-- Steve --

It's a very important Bird.

BlueNGold
02-11-2010, 10:30 PM
Troy is a great stretch 4 and good do great things in the right system. Troy is our 2010 Sam Perkins.

However, giving O'Brien a good stretch 4 is very similar to giving a drunk 16 year old a Porsche and telling him to drive as fast as he can.

Sam was an outstanding post defender...and he had tremendous length to help control the paint. Also, for the Pacers he was not a starter. He got about 15-20 minutes a game...against the other team's backup.

Prior to that, he played on an extremely successful Seattle team...averaging about 60 wins a year. He competed in the playoffs for years because he is a better player who played on much, much better teams.

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 10:38 PM
It's a very important Bird.

So the contract is a very important bird? lol

-- Steve --

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 10:41 PM
So the contract is a very important bird? lol

-- Steve --

hehe... I don't know if he is Bird like. But he definately is not an Albatross.

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 10:44 PM
Sam was an outstanding post defender...and he had tremendous length to help control the paint. Also, for the Pacers he was not a starter. He got about 15-20 minutes a game...against the other team's backup.

Prior to that, he played on an extremely successful Seattle team...averaging about 60 wins a year. He competed in the playoffs for years because he is a better player who played on much, much better teams.

Right, going back to his UNC days with Jordan even. Sam was the man on that UNC team. He was very smart, he could defend the post and had a great low post game in college. When we got him towards end of his career, he had added the stretch 4 aspect to his game and had become a great shooter. I think of him (when he played for the Pacers) more like how Rasheed Wallace is today.

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 10:47 PM
I fail to see how Kevin Martin is any better than Danny.

-- Steve --

Better shooter, more explosive scorer, better free throw shooter, shoots more free throws, and isn't selfish with the ball.

Sookie
02-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Better shooter, more explosive scorer, better free throw shooter, shoots more free throws, and isn't selfish with the ball.

He hasn't played in JOB's system.

cdash
02-11-2010, 10:56 PM
Better shooter, more explosive scorer, better free throw shooter, shoots more free throws, and isn't selfish with the ball.

And among the most atrocious wing defenders in all of basketball!

BlueNGold
02-11-2010, 10:57 PM
A deal for Martin is possible IMO. I'm not sure why they'd want Troy...but Martin has the same work schedule as JO used to have. A part-time work schedule.

I would take that...and hope he could go 60 games.

BlueNGold
02-11-2010, 10:59 PM
He hasn't played in JOB's system.

JOb's "system" would maximize his talents. We don't focus on D anyway. He could probably average 30ppg in our system. He really is a better offensive player than Danny...

imawhat
02-11-2010, 11:03 PM
And among the most atrocious wing defenders in all of basketball!

Yep. And he's extremely injury prone. We already have one of these in Dunleavy.

His numbers look great though and he does get to the line a lot, so I understand why most people on the outside looking in see him and think he's a great player.

I probably watch Sacramento more than any other team in the NBA not named the Pacers. There are only 3 players on the Kings roster that I'd take, and they are in this order: 1) Evans, 2) Thompson, 3) Casspi.

Donte Green may be a good offensive player someday, but for now he's really lacking. And he's wildly inconsistent; he'll disappear during most games. I just don't see much of a presence.

I wouldn't mind seeing Thompson and Hibbert next to each other, but I think we'll be able to get a better PF in the draft.

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 11:09 PM
Better shooter

Danny Granger: .445 FG%, .385 3pt%
Kevin Martin: .450 FG%, .387 3 pt%.


more explosive scorer

AKA , less consistent.


better free throw shooter, shoots more free throws

Granger: .842 FT%
Martin: .851 FT%


isn't selfish with the ball.

How do you gauge this? This just sounds like an opinion. One I don't share or know how you came to this conclusion.

All you could talk about was offense, why? Becuase Danny is just clearly better on the defense end. On defense Danny gets more steals, more blocks and having watched them it isn't even much of a debate on that end of the court.

Like I said, I'm not seeing it.

-- Steve --

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 11:11 PM
It's not about who is better, Danny vs Martin. It is about getting an all-star calibre player to play alongside him.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 11:17 PM
I wouldn't give up Rush. I'd like him to backup Martin or even Martin being the 6th man and Rush starts.

Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford (or Watson), Head for Martin, Thomas, Udrih, Udoka?

CableKC
02-11-2010, 11:25 PM
I still don't understand why in God's name the Kings would want Murphy.
Seriously....I ask this question every time a Murphy Trade Rumor comes up. I think to myself....who would be interested in a unathletic and slow 6'11" Big Man that is more of a SF then he is a PF that is soft on defense and allergic to Offensive Rebounds but is only really good at 2 things...hitting the outside shot and pulling down Defensive Rebounds?

The answer? Geoff Petrie and the Kings.

I was just listening to KHTK 1140 and Carmichael Dave ( one of the Sports guys at one of the Kings radio Stations out in SacTown ). He didn't have any real insight into whether a Murphy trade to the Kings was in the works or defintely going to happen.

He was mentioning that Murphy totally fits the mold of the type of Big Men that Geoff Petrie ( the GM of the Kings ) prefers to have on his Team.....finesse Shooting Big Men. He cited examples of Vlade, Peja ( to a lesser degree ), Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes.....all Big Men ( except for Peja...but a Forward none the less ) that can rebound and has a jumpshooting game but aren't really "bangers" inside.

Based off of the rumors he has heard....this one is the one that he could see happening because it totally looks like a Petrie-type trade for the reasons mentioned above. The problem is that the only rumor that they have been going off of has been a straight up Kenny Thomas for Murphy deal....but they ( just like us ) haven't had anything to go off of other then the Sam Amick article. The Kings have been looking to improve their Frontcourt rotation this season by trying to pursue Amare, Tyrus and Okafor because they've been disappointed a little with Jason Thompson's performance this season.

No real news here.....but a little perspective from the Kings fan side of the fence.

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 11:27 PM
Danny Granger: .445 FG%, .385 3pt%
Kevin Martin: .450 FG%, .387 3 pt%.



AKA , less consistent.



Granger: .842 FT%
Martin: .851 FT%



How do you gauge this? This just sounds like an opinion. One I don't share or know how you came to this conclusion.

All you could talk about was offense, why? Becuase Danny is just clearly better on the defense end. On defense Danny gets more steals, more blocks and having watched them it isn't even much of a debate on that end of the court.

Like I said, I'm not seeing it.

-- Steve --

You're right, I should've said better offensive player. Even though I wouldn't neccesarily write home about Danny's man defense either.

CableKC
02-11-2010, 11:36 PM
I wouldn't give up Rush. I'd like him to backup Martin or even Martin being the 6th man and Rush starts.

Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford (or Watson), Head for Martin, Thomas, Udrih, Udoka?
They'd pass on this real quick.

Pacersfan46
02-11-2010, 11:47 PM
You're right, I should've said better offensive player. Even though I wouldn't neccesarily write home about Danny's man defense either.

Better offensive player, I can see how someone could come to that conclusion. Gotcha.

-- Steve --

PacerGuy
02-11-2010, 11:49 PM
The Kings probably want to get rid of Martin because:

1) He's injury-prone
2) He has 3 years left on his contract
3) They have Tyreke Evans


AND...

The Kings 14-18 without KMartin.
The Kings are only 4-16 with KMartin.
Martin has also missed an ave. of 20 games/ season. At 6'7" & only 185#, he physically can not hold up thru an entire NBA season - not as a #1 option anyway.
Without Evans, KMartin was the key for the Kings success, but now w/ TEvans, he is not a fit. They need more of what a player like Murphy can bring, thus the seemingly one-sided rumors - untill you look at the Facts.

Anthem
02-12-2010, 12:03 AM
I don't think it's even remotely reasonable.

But I'd be absolutely THRILLED with a Martin/Granger/Rush wing combo, even with Martin's injury history.

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 05:57 AM
He hasn't played in JOB's system.


There went the oj all over the monitor.

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 06:12 AM
I don't think it's even remotely reasonable.

But I'd be absolutely THRILLED with a Martin/Granger/Rush wing combo, even with Martin's injury history.


I know you said remotely reasonable, but don't forget having to take on 3 more years of 34 mil in salary. Even I will give Bird credit for seeing the salary and injury issues as a reason to not warrant trading for Martin.

Thesterovic
02-12-2010, 05:01 PM
I fail to see how Kevin Martin could possibly hurt this team. He may have the sweetest strokes in the league. If you can trade him for Troy, you do it. He is an All Star calibur player, and we'd be 2/3 a way there on the whole big three, in the 2nd rebuilding year. Then maybe Kevin and Danny could play defense, because I'm sure they're capable, but they can't because of the scoring load.

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 09:44 PM
I fail to see how Kevin Martin could possibly hurt this team.


You can only see what you want to see, but 3 more years at 34 mil and being constantly injured are excellent starters why not. When is it FOSTER and DUNLEAVY are over their injuries? How much money has that cost ownership? Take the time and figure out how much time Allstar JO was injured and how much in salary the Simons paid while being injured as a Pacer. Then tell me again how Martin could possibly hurt the Pacers.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 09:53 PM
Just for the sake of argument......could someone elaborate on the type of injuries that KMart has had over the last couple of seasons?

I know that he's missed a lot of games over the last 2 seasons....but were they "freak one-time" injuries?

or

Were they recurring/nagging injuries that have re-injured over the years?

Hicks
02-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Just for the sake of argument......could someone elaborate on the type of injuries that KMart has had over the last couple of seasons?

I know that he's missed a lot of games over the last 2 seasons....but were they "freak one-time" injuries?

or

Were they recurring/nagging injuries that have re-injured over the years?

Good question.

Once upon a time, Zydrunas Ilgauskas was considered very injury prone and maybe he might even retire early, but lately he's been pretty darn healthy the last few years.

Thesterovic
02-12-2010, 10:12 PM
You can only see what you want to see, but 3 more years at 34 mil and being constantly injured are excellent starters why not. When is it FOSTER and DUNLEAVY are over their injuries? How much money has that cost ownership? Take the time and figure out how much time Allstar JO was injured and how much in salary the Simons paid while being injured as a Pacer. Then tell me again how Martin could possibly hurt the Pacers.

Danny's missed about 40 games in the past 2 seasons. Let's trade him because he's killing our team right now. That awful contract. 5 years 60 million, it would be such a bargain if he could even walk without hurting his foot. :rolleyes:

11m for 20-27ppg for 65 games a year isn't bad at all. That's how much Robins cost. And Kevin is Robin on 'roids.

No one feels that way. Boston is willing to gamble on Martin, and they are known as one of the smartest franchises in all of sports. They know that these are from having to do too much for his small frame.

Justin Tyme
02-13-2010, 10:57 AM
Boston is willing to gamble on Martin, and they are known as one of the smartest franchises in all of sports. They know that these are from having to do too much for his small frame.


That's great Boston can afford to take the chance, but Herb Simon CAN'T! Herb Simon isn't Dolan, Cuban, etc. Bottom line is "it AIN'T gonna happen" in Pacer Land. What you want means noth'n, it's what ownership wants and feels they can afford. I don't feel Martin is a player that ownership feels comfortable with for the next 3 seasons at 34 mil with Martin's propensity for injuries. Again, ownership is currently paying 4 players who aren't playing, and not to mention those in the past few years, yet you see nothing wrong with taking a 34 million dollar chance on a player known for injuries. How's that prudent business?

I'll go out on a limb and guess you didn't take the time, as I suggested, to figure out how much money it cost the Simons for Allstar JO being out with injuries. It's easy to ask ownership to take the gamble when you have nothing involved other than fandom while they are paying the bills. It easy to use other people's money to satisfy your wants when you aren't the risk taker. Again, I don't foresee Pacer ownership taking a gamble with the economic situation they are currently experiencing on an injury prone player being the answer to a Pacer turn around.

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 11:07 AM
That's great Boston can afford to take the chance, but Herb Simon CAN'T! Herb Simon isn't Dolan, Cuban, etc. Bottom line is "it AIN'T gonna happen" in Pacer Land. What you want means noth'n, it's what ownership wants and feels they can afford. I don't feel Martin is a player that ownership feels comfortable with for the next 3 seasons at 34 mil with Martin's propensity for injuries. Again, ownership is currently paying 4 players who aren't playing, and not to mention those in the past few years, yet you see nothing wrong with taking a 34 million dollar chance on a player known for injuries. How's that prudent business?

I'll go out on a limb and guess you didn't take the time, as I suggested, to figure out how much money it cost the Simons for Allstar JO being out with injuries. It's easy to ask ownership to take the gamble when you have nothing involved other than fandom while they are paying the bills. It easy to use other people's money to satisfy your wants when you aren't the risk taker. Again, I don't foresee Pacer ownership taking a gamble with the economic situation they are currently experiencing on an injury prone player being the answer to a Pacer turn around.

Or, in my opinion I see a players who's been unfortunate the past two years. Ever other year he's done very well staying healthy.

Gamble1
02-13-2010, 11:33 AM
Just for the sake of argument......could someone elaborate on the type of injuries that KMart has had over the last couple of seasons?

I know that he's missed a lot of games over the last 2 seasons....but were they "freak one-time" injuries?

or

Were they recurring/nagging injuries that have re-injured over the years?
Groin, wrist, and ankle were the only ones I could find. I mean he is small so I could see him being more injury proned but none of what I found made me think he had some chronic injury that was going cut his career short.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 11:55 AM
Groin, wrist, and ankle were the only ones I could find. I mean he is small so I could see him being more injury proned but none of what I found made me think he had some chronic injury that was going cut his career short.

Some guys just have the "Ken Griffey, Jr. syndrome". You know what I mean. Every time they turn around, it seems they do something to get hurt.

I guess they just have to stop turning around.

Justin Tyme
02-13-2010, 07:40 PM
Some guys just have the "Ken Griffey, Jr. syndrome". You know what I mean. Every time they turn around, it seems they do something to get hurt.

I guess they just have to stop turning around.


And then there is the Pacer jinx or whatever it's referred to as.

Trophy
02-13-2010, 11:35 PM
Kevin Martin
MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Season
36.1 0.400 0.364 0.833 0.9 3.5 4.4 2.6 1.2 0.2 1.8 2.2 20.8
Career
30.6 0.450 0.387 0.851 0.8 2.9 3.7 1.9 1.0 0.1 1.7 2.0 17.1

<div><object width="512" height="322"><param name="movie" value="http://d.yimg.com/static.video.yahoo.com/yep/YV_YEP.swf?ver=2.2.46" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="AllowScriptAccess" VALUE="always" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#000000" /><param name="flashVars" value="id=11369373&vid=4232306&lang=en-us&intl=us&thumbUrl=http%3A//l.yimg.com/a/p/i/bcst/turnersports/6511/77749983.jpg&embed=1&ap=12135647" /><embed src="http://d.yimg.com/static.video.yahoo.com/yep/YV_YEP.swf?ver=2.2.46" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="512" height="322" allowFullScreen="true" AllowScriptAccess="always" bgcolor="#000000" flashVars="id=11369373&vid=4232306&lang=en-us&intl=us&thumbUrl=http%3A//l.yimg.com/a/p/i/bcst/turnersports/6511/77749983.jpg&embed=1&ap=12135647" ></embed></object><br /><a href="http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4232306/11369373">Kings vs. Pacers: Recap</a> @ <a href="http://video.yahoo.com" >Yahoo! Video</a></div>

2minutes twowa
02-14-2010, 12:35 AM
I realize there is some concern over KMart's injury problems, but I think if you can turn Troy Murphy and TJ Ford into an expiring contract and a 20+ pts per game shooting guard, it's worth the risks. With KMart, you can basically shop Dunleavy or let him walk while having Rush and Jones to make sure KMart isn't over worked. PF and PG are still our main needs, but I think the PF need can be met through the draft. As for the PG need.....is New Orleans tired of Chris Paul yet??:D