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90'sNBARocked
02-11-2010, 10:20 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15257


After all the buzz Cleveland has gotten the last few weeks about how adamant they were about making a trade, their options really do appear to be whittling down. The three guys they've have been discussing and are still discussing, are Troy Murphy, Antawn Jamison, and Andre Iguodala, but still nothing has gotten done.

Part of the problem, at least according to Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, is that all these teams want not only Zydrunas Ilgauskas's expiring contract, but also the team's breakout forward J.J. Hickson. Considering the way Hickson has played this season, and considering how much LeBron James has shown his support of the young man, the team has been understandably hesitant in moving the kid. But that's turning teams off.

The Jamison deal seems unlikely to happen, as Michael Lee of the Washington Post has hinted that the asking price for 'Twan has been unreasonably high, indicating a possibility that the Wizard are reticent to move him. Iguodala could be had, but only for the right mix of talent. Remember that the Sixers would only move him with the hopes of rebuilding. Cap space alone doesn't get that done. They'd need some young talent, too.

And that leaves only Murphy, who Windhorst says is probably closer to being a Cav than any other guy on the list, but the Pacers keep insisting on the inclusion of Hickson. So the whole Cleveland thing is in a holding pattern right now that might not break until another deal or two gets done first. Until that ice is broken, the team is on an incredible run anyway and could probably survive just fine if no deal were to be made by the 18th.

What is funny to me is this thought that JJ HIckson is the second comming of Garnett. I would personally rather see us get Danny Green. If this should be merged, please do so

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 10:34 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15257



What is funny to me is this thought that JJ HIckson is the second comming of Garnett. I would personally rather see us get Danny Green. If this should be merged, please do so



What it shows is how much power the KING has. When he speaks Cleveland FO listens.

It doesn't help constantly hearing how Shaq has taken to tutoring him either.

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 11:18 AM
Yeah I think Hickson who is a nice player is being over-valued. Sure I'd like to have him on the pacers - I liked him last season, but I don't think he's going to be a great player.

owl
02-11-2010, 11:22 AM
With all the inside power they have with Shaq, Lebron and Varejao it seems to me Murphy is the perfect fit for them. So if they cannot see to give up Hickson and a first I would say
good luck. I have once before listed reasons that the Pacers need to get something good
from Cleveland because the Pacers will be strengthing a team in their own division for the
forseeable future and probably handing them a championship.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 11:23 AM
Yeah I think Hickson who is a nice player is being over-valued. Sure I'd like to have him on the pacers - I liked him last season, but I don't think he's going to be a great player.

man we finally agree in a topic:-p, yeah I feel the same way, he is overrated because he is looking good playing with Lebron, you bring that guy into this team and he would look average.

owl
02-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Yeah I think Hickson who is a nice player is being over-valued. Sure I'd like to have him on the pacers - I liked him last season, but I don't think he's going to be a great player.

If they can get him it just gives the Pacers more options in the future and in the coming draft.

owl
02-11-2010, 11:36 AM
If Lebron can make Hickson look great, what will he do with Troy? Troy can rebound as well as Hickson plus he can hit a shot outside of a dunk.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 11:41 AM
If Lebron can make Hickson look great, what will he do with Troy? Troy can rebound as well as Hickson plus he can hit a shot outside of a dunk.

Tha is the reason why the pacers want JJ back, Im sure that Murphy is going to look like the steal of the trade deadline he would look amazing by playing with Lebron and more than one person here would be lamenting the trade thinking that we did not get much for him.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 11:41 AM
If Lebron can make Hickson look great, what will he do with Troy? Troy can rebound as well as Hickson plus he can hit a shot outside of a dunk.

Murphy is getting a max deal if he wins a ring with Lebron!

avoidingtheclowns
02-11-2010, 11:59 AM
Yeah I think Hickson who is a nice player is being over-valued. Sure I'd like to have him on the pacers - I liked him last season, but I don't think he's going to be a great player.

Hickson's value isn't necessarily that he's going to be a great player (at least that's not how I see it). Right now the Pacers have three tradable players: Danny, Roy and then Cleveland wants Troy for some reason. If you can somehow manage to trade for a player like Hickson that other teams value, that can only help.

That being said, Hickson's inclusion certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

Shade
02-11-2010, 12:04 PM
If Cleveland truly feels that adding Murphy would put them over the top, then refusing to trade Hickson to add him is ridiculous.

It's all about the ring.

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm in the group that says if you can't get more than cap relief for Murphy then don't trade him.

It doesn't have to be JJ Critte, er Hickson, but it does have to be more than a salary dump.

I know I'm in the minority here and I realize if Murphy isn't moved by the deadline, I'll have to stay away from my PD home until March to avoid to pitch forks.

I just want more for Murphy than nothing. I think he's worth more than that; "that" being nothing. :)

And yes, I know cap relief isn't nothing, but I mean on-court, for the future type booty in return.

And yes, I said booty.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 12:14 PM
JJ isn't Allstar quality, but is as good a PF as the Pacers have and he's young and cheap. The Pacers have the rest of the season to play him and determine if he's a piece of the puzzle for the future. If not, they can trade him, possibly back to the Cavs next season.

If the King wasn't so high on JJ, I believe a deal with the Pacers or another team would have been done by now. I feel Ferry knows he can't win a championship with the team as it stands now. He has to make a deal to win a championship or possibly lose James. I'm not saying it will be with the Pacers, but I hope it is.

PacerGuy
02-11-2010, 12:20 PM
No link, but interesting rumor off the RealGM forum from a Boston fan:


According to some rumblings made by Mike Gorman, broadcaster for the Celts, there is a possible package out there for Indy/SAC/BOS which would revolve around the following premise deal:

To Boston: Kevin Martin, TJ Ford

To Indiana: Ray Allen

To Sacramento: Troy Murphy

Unsure if added pieces (future picks etc) from Indy would need to go to Sacto, but it may seem so.

Regardless, Boston gets their 2-guard in Martin to replace Allen long term and also net a viable backup PG. Indy seems to make out quite well here, unloading two 2011 contracts for a pure expiring in Ray Ray. Finally, the Kings get their 4/5 in Murphy, who can extend the floor in Sacto to allow for penetration underneath (thats what she said!).

Take it for what it's worth....

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 12:20 PM
If Cleveland were willing to trade Hickson I think they would probably be dealing with someone else right now. That seems to be the sticking point with the other teams, the idea being they think Murphy is the one they can get without giving him up.

I still think this gets done, but with their pick as the consolation prize instead of Hickson. If we get Hickson, kudos to the front office, but I will be fine either way.

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:22 PM
It's interesting that Hickson is so coveted right now. Granted, I've only seen him play against the Pacers, but I saw a guy who was a little lost on defense and really somewhat limited on offense to being a finisher to Lebron's dimes. Not saying he doesn't have upside, but he still seems like he's in project phase. A project that might take awhile and isn't a sure thing. He's not a guy to me that I looked at and thought wow, he's gonna be a player.

Have I missed a breakdown of his game on here? Anyone have something on him, other than what nbadraft.net has from 3 years ago.

Also, looking at JJ's recent games, he's not really playing a ton and his numbers look pedistrian.

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 12:27 PM
No link, but interesting rumor off the RealGM forum from a Boston fan:



Take it for what it's worth....

I have a hard time believing the Kings would trade Kevin Martin for Troy Murphy straight up, which is basically what this trade is on their end. If it comes down to giving up future picks or assets, then I say a big no to this deal.

As much as people say they don't wan't to give up Troy for a pure salary dump (which this still is, just now its a ford/murphy salary dump for nothing). The thing that scares me the most is having to give up assets to dump salary.

Not to mention the unintended improvement to our win total by adding the Ray Allen rental, thus hurting our lottery position.

Jonathan
02-11-2010, 12:28 PM
The last trade we had in division was Jalen Rose for Brad Miller & Ronnie Artest. Murphy has been playing better ball than Granger recently. I see no immediate need to trade him unless the organization gets quality in return. Keep in mind his value may double next season @ this time as an expiring and with a lock out in question. Would hate to miss out on late first rounder, youth with potential, and an expiring for him ie Jermaine O'neal deal.

31andonly
02-11-2010, 12:30 PM
The Pacers can wait, the Cavs don't!
Murphy's value is just getting higher next year, so if the Cavs don't offer the right pieces, it's not the Pacers problem.


They'll get enough offers come deadline 2011.

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:34 PM
I have a hard time believing the Kings would trade Kevin Martin for Troy Murphy straight up, which is basically what this trade is on their end. If it comes down to giving up future picks or assets, then I say a big no to this deal.

As much as people say they don't wan't to give up Troy for a pure salary dump (which this still is, just now its a ford/murphy salary dump for nothing). The thing that scares me the most is having to give up assets to dump salary.

Not to mention the unintended improvement to our win total by adding the Ray Allen rental, thus hurting our lottery position.

Right, this is a Boston trade. They get exactly what they need, Pacers get no future assets and in fact may give up some, Kings give up a better player for Murph. Really doesn't make sense for anyone, but Boston.

Redo the trade and send Ray Allen to Sac, Pacers get Kevin Martin, then Murphy and TJ to Boston, oh ya and Boston may have to give up future picks to Sac town.

I really just flipped the trade in favor of Indy, same way the Boston guy made it better for them.

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 12:35 PM
The last trade we had in division was Jalen Rose for Brad Miller & Ronnie Artest. Murphy has been playing better ball than Granger recently. I see no immediate need to trade him unless the organization gets quality in return. Keep in mind his value may double next season @ this time as an expiring and with a lock out in question. Would hate to miss out on late first rounder, youth with potential, and an expiring for him ie Jermaine O'neal deal.

Thats crazy if you think Troy Murphy could get that next season. Any deal involving Murphy the expiring will probably bring back long term salary, not another expiring. If it happens to be a situation where a team actually wants murphy and not just the expiring... probably the best you could hope for is another expiring, and a late round pick (best case scenario). Oh yea.... thats the deal we are talking about right now.

If you are talking about the value of just having expirings to trade next year? I will go ahead and introduce you to TJ Ford and Mike Dunleavy... and maybe even Jeff Foster. We will have no such shortage of expiring contracts even if we trade Murphy now.

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:39 PM
What is the Cavs pick going to be 29 or 30? Again, you can buy this high a pick in drafts past. Teams would rather have non guaranteed early early second rounders than late late first. I'm not saying you don't ask for it as a commodity, but it's not that good an asset, really.

In fact, didn't Cleveland pick somebody off the board last year with their late 1st rounder because they knew they wouldn't have to bring him in and pay him. So didn't Clev basically semi waste last years #1 anyway?

I'd ask for there 2011 #1, in case Lebron leaves and they suck, which I'm sure they would not do.

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:43 PM
About trading Murphy this year vs. next. If you don't get a decent deal now, then why not wait to see if you can?

Is Murphy + 1 year left on contract > Murphy + 2 years left?

I would guess so.

Wouldn't Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, or whoever really covet a Troy Murphy rental/expiring for 1 year for a last ditch playoff run?

To me, there is almost no downside next year for a contender to acquire him. He can contribute to a contender and he goes off the book at seasons end.

Only reason to do it, desperately now, is you're afraid his production will completely fall off (less a concern since he'll be expiring) or you are afraid he'll get hurt. Otherwise, you have an appreciating asset.

It's not that the Pacers have other expirings to use next year, imho, it's that you have an asset in Murphy that you should try to get the most out of.

Jonathan
02-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Infanite Man Force,

Keep in mind Lockout may be looming. That increases the value of expiring deals next year. I really believe a team with a young core of talented players (ATL, OKC, SAC & Memphis) no longer cares about picks and would rather have cap space to sign a proven pick (Mayo, J Smith, Westbrook, Evans) in his prime over selecting mid first round.

Yes Murphy for a young unproven player (Carroll, Teague, D Greene) a mid first rounder and crappy vet expiring can and might happen next year.

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
About trading Murphy this year vs. next. If you don't get a decent deal now, then why not wait to see if you can?

Is Murphy + 1 year left on contract > Murphy + 2 years left?

I would guess so.

Wouldn't Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, or whoever really covet a Troy Murphy rental/expiring for 1 year for a last ditch playoff run?

To me, there is almost no downside next year for a contender to acquire him. He can contribute to a contender and he goes off the book at seasons end.

Only reason to do it, desperately now, is you're afraid his production will completely fall off (less a concern since he'll be expiring) or you are afraid he'll get hurt.

It's not that the Pacers have other expirings to use next year, imho, it's that you have an asset in Murphy that you should try to get the most out of.

There is the luxury tax consideration. Is holding on to Troy Murphy going to be worth paying the luxury tax next season? I doubt ownership thinks so, which is why I think this deal gets done one way or another.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
this trade works in the ESPN trade machine

Ray Allen 18.7mil to Indiana

Troy Murphy 11mil to Sacramento, maybe picks and young players.

TJ Ford 8.5mil and Kmart 9.6mil to the Celtics

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 12:53 PM
Thats crazy if you think Troy Murphy could get that next season. Any deal involving Murphy the expiring will probably bring back long term salary, not another expiring.

After next season, other teams will be wanting expirings, while we will want a player for them then. The reverse of right now. And each year brings it's own unique deals. Remember Detriot getting Wallace, and the Laker's getting Gasol?

By the way, if Bird is actually in these talks and it's not just a rumor, it's because he wants to pressure Cleveland, he's not going to trade for just Allen's expiring anymore than just Z's. Neither fits with his plan. The bottom line I think it is a Boston rumor.

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 12:57 PM
this trade works in the ESPN trade machine

Ray Allen 18.7mil to Indiana

Troy Murphy 11mil to Sacramento, maybe picks and young players.

TJ Ford 8.5mil and Kmart 9.6mil to the Celtics

This is only acceptable if the picks and young players are coming from the Celtics, not the Pacers.

If so, pretty good trade. I would only hope Ray Ray doesn't screw up our lottery chances. Which is part of the reason I still prefer the murphy to cavs dump.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 01:00 PM
This is only acceptable if the picks and young players are coming from the Celtics, not the Pacers.

If so, pretty good trade. I would only hope Ray Ray doesn't screw up our lottery chances.

yeah I agree with you, not sure how many picks they could send though

Speed
02-11-2010, 01:03 PM
So you trade Murphy, but you get out from under TJs contract too?

I'd assume the Pacers #1 isn't up for discussion, maybe an optional swap with Sacramento who's right in the same spot as the Pacers right now.

count55
02-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Right, this is a Boston trade. They get exactly what they need, Pacers get no future assets and in fact may give up some, Kings give up a better player for Murph. Really doesn't make sense for anyone, but Boston.

Redo the trade and send Ray Allen to Sac, Pacers get Kevin Martin, then Murphy and TJ to Boston, oh ya and Boston may have to give up future picks to Sac town.

I really just flipped the trade in favor of Indy, same way the Boston guy made it better for them.

Why for Boston? - Kevin Martin. Ford is a huge upgrade at their backup point, but he's really just filler.

Why for Sacramento? - They can move Kevin Martin out of the way of Evans, reducing that commitment by two years and $22 million, without giving any of their other young core, and get a serviceable player for the next two years (and an expiring to trade next year).

Why for Indiana? - Move two huge contracts, allowing them to get far enough under the luxury tax to perhaps do some shopping next summer in a relatively loaded FA class. Besides saving them a ton of money, it could allow them to at least pick up the pace on the rebuild. Face it, if they stand pat at this deadline, then everybody knows that they're looking at being essentially the same team for the following 18 months.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 01:09 PM
So Count55, how much money could the pacers have in cap space next year to sing free agents? if a trade like this goes down?

Speed
02-11-2010, 01:14 PM
So Count55, how much money could the pacers have in cap space next year to sing free agents?

This isn't directed at me, but this is what I think.

Zero. You are still over the Salary Cap, just under the Luxury Tax.

Let's you use your exceptions, though, I'd guess. So what caliber players can you get for what 5.5 and 2.5 million?

Helps your bottom line obviously. Saves you 20 million next year.

I guess you could sign and trade Ray Allen for say 8 million a year and get something back, I think that would work that way? You could resign Ray Allen, but I'd guess he'd want to go somewhere and compete for a championship, unless the Pacers way over pay in money or length of contract. I'm guessing Ray Allen would be a Pacer much in the same way Peja is.



On-court product improvement? Not sure any. Well, you won't have TJ and Murphy to mess up everything anymore. :) But seriously, many have talked about Obie and how he plays Murphy too much, well next year, you'll get Tyler Hansbrough as your starting PF (maybe a lottery pick) and like someone else said I forgot TJ was on the team. So it forces Obie to play other guys.

Last year, it could have meant keeping Jarret Jack. There isn't a player that you'd want to extend this year.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 01:15 PM
Why even include Boston, I'd rather us take Martin for Murphy straight up.

Anthem
02-11-2010, 01:15 PM
I'd do that Ray Allen deal in a heartbeat.

Anthem
02-11-2010, 01:16 PM
Let's you use your exceptions, though, I'd guess. So what caliber players can you get for what 5.5 and 2.5 million?
There will be more players on the free market than teams with a ton of capspace. If we play our cards right we should be able to get a decent player with that MLE money.

sportfireman
02-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Why even include Boston, I'd rather us take Martin for Murphy straight up.

cause we can get rid of TJ's contract too

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 01:21 PM
Martin and Granger gets you to the playsoffs next year easily, I'd do that in a heart beat.
Ray Allen just comes off the books so you can hope to sign a player of Martin's caliber.

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Why even include Boston, I'd rather us take Martin for Murphy straight up.

Because the Celtics are the team that really, really, really wants to make a trade. They only have a very small window of time to try and compete for a championship (because the age and mileage of Pierce and KG) and they have been a below .500 team since Jan. 1st.

So the Celtics are the team that is orchestrating this whole trade - they are pushing it, without them I doubt the Kings and pacers would have even gotten to first base on this rumored deal.


Yes I would do the threeway deal without question. basically we are getting rid of Ford and Murph a year early - what is not to like about that - what is the possible downside -

The Celtics are looking for a backup point guard so I could see them wanting Ford -

The Kings are the team that is not getting anything out of the deal though

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 01:23 PM
I asked about the trade to JOEL BRIGHAM on HoopsHype and this was his answer
http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=767

vnzla81 in indianapolis:
any true to the rumor of Ray Allen going to indy,Kmart going to the Celtics with TJ Ford and Troy Murphy plus pick and young players going to Sacramento?thanks
Joel Brigham:
Sounds sketchy to me, at least from the Sacramento side of things. Nobody wants T.J. Ford right now, so if they were able to get all that expiring contract out of him and Troy Murphy, I'd be shocked.

Hicks
02-11-2010, 01:32 PM
I asked about the trade to JOEL BRIGHAM on HoopsHype and this was his answer
http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=767

I think you told him wrong. TJ would be going to Boston.

Hicks
02-11-2010, 01:33 PM
Assuming the picks and other riff-raff goes from BOS to SAC and not from IND out, I'm all over this rumored trade. And that was before I realized Ray's contract expires now as opposed to next year like I thought it did.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 01:34 PM
I think you told him wrong. TJ would be going to Boston.

oh crap, my bad:blush:, I asked the same question like ten times, I think I got tired of asking.............:(

Speed
02-11-2010, 01:36 PM
So Count55, how much money could the pacers have in cap space next year to sing free agents? if a trade like this goes down?

Bump, I answered this, but I want Count55 to answer. Since after studying his Salary Cap sticky I think I'm wrong now and they would actually have some room under the Cap.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Because the Celtics are the team that really, really, really wants to make a trade. They only have a very small window of time to try and compete for a championship (because the age and mileage of Pierce and KG) and they have been a below .500 team since Jan. 1st.

So the Celtics are the team that is orchestrating this whole trade - they are pushing it, without them I doubt the Kings and pacers would have even gotten to first base on this rumored deal.


Yes I would do the threeway deal without question. basically we are getting rid of Ford and Murph a year early - what is not to like about that - what is the possible downside -

I think the downside is having to sign a new player with that 18 mil Ray Allen gives you. You going to have to sign a PF or a PG. More like you are going to half to lure a player to Indiana. You aren't going to lure Bosh to Indiana, and I don't even think you can lure Amare or Boozer either. Who you gonna go and get this summer with that 18 mil. It better be a star player. Makes more sense to get a star player already under contract. Ala Kevin Martin. Ford and Dun and Foster Expire next year anyway.

Gamble1
02-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Because the Celtics are the team that really, really, really wants to make a trade. They only have a very small window of time to try and compete for a championship (because the age and mileage of Pierce and KG) and they have been a below .500 team since Jan. 1st.

So the Celtics are the team that is orchestrating this whole trade - they are pushing it, without them I doubt the Kings and pacers would have even gotten to first base on this rumored deal.


Yes I would do the threeway deal without question. basically we are getting rid of Ford and Murph a year early - what is not to like about that - what is the possible downside -

The Celtics are looking for a backup point guard so I could see them wanting Ford -

The Kings are the team that is not getting anything out of the deal though
The only downside is a lot of money in Larry Birds hands all at once. That could be a good thing or it could lead to a over paid player that doesn't pan out for us.

I wonder who we could get though? Looking at this list I honestly don't think we can get a 2nd star player.
Edit:
So, let's break into a few categories. First up, let's start with the stars whose contracts expire following the 2009-2010 season and will then become honest-to-goodness free agents:
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton
The next grouping is those players that are signed thru 2011, but can opt out in 2010 if they so choose:
Yao Ming (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
LeBron James (owed 17.2 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11)
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)
This next list consists of contracts that are set to expire in 2010, but the player may choose to opt-out following the 2008-2009 season:
Steve Nash (owed $13.1 million in 09-10)
Carlos Boozer (owed $12.7 million in 09-10)
Chris Paul (owed $6 million in 09-10 / almost certain to sign an extension before becoming unrestricted)
Memo Okur (owed $9.0 million in 09-10)
Hedo Turkoglu (owed $7.4 million in 09-10)

In addition to the superstars listed above, these 'second-tier' players are set to hit the open market as well:
Ben Wallace
Larry Hughes
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Anderson Varejao (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Al Harrington
Darko Milicic
Udonis Haslem
Jamal Crawford (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Eddy Curry (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Amir Johnson
Derek Fisher
Raja Bell
T.J. Ford (player option - owed $8.5 million in 10/11)
Travis Outlaw
Bruce Bowen
Earl Watson
Luke Ridnour
Matt Harpring
Quentin Richardson
Damien Wilkins
We also must include the list of players that will actually eventually have value due solely to the fact their contracts come off the books in the summer of 2010:
Jerome James (proof that Isiah Thomas knew what he was doing all along!)
Cuttino Mobley
Brendan Haywood
Tim Thomas
Brian Cardinal
Antonio Davis
Mark Blount
Bobby Simmons
Troy Hudson
Darius Miles
Kenny Thomas
Shareef Abdul-Rahim
Matt Bonner
Etan Thomas
Last, but not least, we have the 2006 Draft Class. These players will all be restricted free-agents in 2010, if they haven't already been inked to extensions:
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge
Andrea Bargnani
Rajon Rondo
Tyrus Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Randy Foye
Marcus Williams
Josh Boone
Renaldo Balkman
Sergio Rodriguez
Ronnie Brewer
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9031

BornReady
02-11-2010, 01:42 PM
would anybody mind telling me where this boston sac indy 3 way trade is coming from?

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 01:48 PM
would anybody mind telling me where this boston sac indy 3 way trade is coming from?

The Celtics long time TV play by play guy Mike Gorman. I don't believe he is one to spew trade rumors - that is not what he does. So it is interesting that it is coming to him. That makes me believe this deal is being discussed. I'm sure the Celtics are trying to make some trades and I think this one or soemthing very similar is being dicsussed. Whether it actuially takes place is anyones guess

Speed
02-11-2010, 01:51 PM
You don't have the 18 million to shop with.

Anything under 57 million is shopping money. (Salary Cap)

Anything over 65 million you pay double. (Tax Threshold)

Anything over 57 Million you can't sign Free Agents (unless to 6 million exception or 2 million exception)

So it looks like this.

0 to 57 - can sign FA
57 to 65 - No FAs, but only exceptions (6 & 2 million)
65 to infinity - NO FAs, pay double (not sure about exceptions)

Where are the Pacers, well I don't know? Looking at Count55s Capology I think 72 with Troy and TJ, 52 without. So you'd have 5 million to spend on a Free agent, if you do this deal, not 18 million.

57 (Cap)
minus
52 (projected salary)
equal
5 million below cap

Still you have to fill out the roster so who knows.

COUNT55!!!! :D

Speed
02-11-2010, 01:54 PM
The Celtics long time TV play by play guy Mike Gorman. I don't believe he is one to spew trade rumors - that is not what he does. So it is interesting that it is coming to him. That makes me believe this deal is being discussed. I'm sure the Celtics are trying to make some trades and I think this one or soemthing very similar is being dicsussed. Whether it actuially takes place is anyones guess

Any chance that Bird and Ainge wanted to float it out there to get the Cleveland deal done for Indy and for Ainge to complete whatever other deal he wants done for Ray Allen?

count55
02-11-2010, 01:57 PM
This isn't directed at me, but this is what I think.

Zero. You are still over the Salary Cap, just under the Luxury Tax.

Let's you use your exceptions, though, I'd guess. So what caliber players can you get for what 5.5 and 2.5 million?

Helps your bottom line obviously. Saves you 20 million next year.

I guess you could sign and trade Ray Allen for say 8 million a year and get something back, I think that would work that way? You could resign Ray Allen, but I'd guess he'd want to go somewhere and compete for a championship, unless the Pacers way over pay in money or length of contract. I'm guessing Ray Allen would be a Pacer much in the same way Peja is.



On-court product improvement? Not sure any. Well, you won't have TJ and Murphy to mess up everything anymore. :) But seriously, many have talked about Obie and how he plays Murphy too much, well next year, you'll get Tyler Hansbrough as your starting PF (maybe a lottery pick) and like someone else said I forgot TJ was on the team. So it forces Obie to play other guys.

Last year, it could have meant keeping Jarret Jack. There isn't a player that you'd want to extend this year.


Bump, I answered this, but I want Count55 to answer. Since after studying his Salary Cap sticky I think I'm wrong now and they would actually have some room under the Cap.

Theoretically, they'd be at roughly $45mm, which would be $5-$8mm under the nominal cap, BUT....

They'll have a cap hold on their 1st round pick, which will probably be $3+mm, which will put us in range of the MLE, and it's cap hold will kick in, o...

We should assume that we'd have the MLE available.

We WILL NOT have the BAE (or LLE) available, because it's a "Bi-Annual" exception, and we used it last year on Solo. It won't be available to us until summer, 2011.

The real "asset" the Pacers would be getting is, in effect, unloading TJ's contract.

count55
02-11-2010, 01:59 PM
You don't have the 18 million to shop with.

Anything under 57 million is shopping money. (Salary Cap)

Anything over 65 million you pay double. (Tax Threshold)

Anything over 57 Million you can't sign Free Agents (unless to 6 million exception or 2 million exception)

So it looks like this.

0 to 57 - can sign FA
57 to 65 - No FAs, but only exceptions (6 & 2 million)
65 to infinity - NO FAs, pay double (not sure about exceptions)

Where are the Pacers, well I don't know? Looking at Count55s Capology I think 72 with Troy and TJ, 52 without. So you'd have 5 million to spend on a Free agent, if you do this deal, not 18 million.

57 (Cap)
minus
52 (projected salary)
equal
5 million below cap

Still you have to fill out the roster so who knows.

COUNT55!!!! :D

$57 is way too high for the cap. I think $53-54 is more likely, possibly less.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 01:59 PM
Any chance that Bird and Ainge wanted to float it out there to get the Cleveland deal done for Indy and for Ainge to complete whatever other deal he wants done for Ray Allen?

I actually think that this trade makes sense, it complements the rumor of Sacramento Wanting Troy and the rumor of the Celtics wanting Kmart and the pacers wanting cap space.

Gamble1
02-11-2010, 02:00 PM
57 (Cap)
minus
52 (projected salary)
equal
5 million below cap

Still you have to fill out the roster so who knows.

COUNT55!!!! :D
Thats just terrible. Do me a favor and wake me up in 2 years.:(

Hicks
02-11-2010, 02:02 PM
If SAC is doing this to save money, and if CLE would be willing to trade Hickson to get Murphy, why not combine rumors?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhbdxfx

wintermute
02-11-2010, 02:03 PM
does sacramento want murphy so bad that they'd give up kevin martin? i know his contract is bad and so is his injury history, but it wasn't very long ago that he was a 25 ppg scorer. in fact that's no doubt the reason celtics want him.

i have a tough time swallowing this rumor. but oh well we'll see i guess.

dohman
02-11-2010, 02:03 PM
Take allen and bench him so he does not get closer to reggies record.. baaaaahahahhaha

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 02:04 PM
If SAC is doing this to save money, and if CLE would be willing to trade Hickson to get Murphy, why not combine rumors?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhbdxfx

no, the rumor is the Sacramento wants Murphy

Speed
02-11-2010, 02:08 PM
I wonder why Sac wants Murphy, will they play Jason Thompson at Center. I really like Thompson when I have seen him play.

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 02:12 PM
Maybe this rumor is being spread to try and convince the Cavs that other teams want Murphy and they better pony up Hickson.

Who knows, I just like using the phrase "pony up"

Hicks
02-11-2010, 02:12 PM
Check out JJ Hickson's hot spots: The dude is feasting on dunks and layups. His jumpshot would make Tyler Hansbrough blush:

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

Just pull up Cleveland, Hickson, on 09-10, season. Look at his percentages and his attempts. Keep in mind how few he takes other thank dunks/layups FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR.

dohman
02-11-2010, 02:18 PM
Check out JJ Hickson's hot spots: The dude is feasting on dunks and layups. His jumpshot would make Tyler Hansbrough blush:

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

Just pull up Cleveland, Hicks, on 09-10, season. Look at his percentages and his attempts. Keep in mind how few he takes other thank dunks/layups FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR.

If the goal is to put it threw the hoop he does it with the best possible shot.

Lance George
02-11-2010, 02:18 PM
By my count Hickson is 13-73 (.178) from outside of the paint. Yikes.

CableKC
02-11-2010, 02:23 PM
By my count Hickson is 13-73 (.178) from outside of the paint. Yikes.
That's why I'm wondering why we'd want Hickson......JO'B wouldn't use him at all if he can't hit a shot outside the paint. I'm thinking that JO'B would somehow ask for Scalabrine to be included in the deal :suicide4: :laugh:

TMJ31
02-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Take allen and bench him so he does not get closer to reggies record.. baaaaahahahhaha

Call me a horrible person or an overly loyal fan...

But this is the *VERY* first thing I thought of when reading this rumor ;-)

Hicks
02-11-2010, 02:25 PM
no, the rumor is the Sacramento wants Murphy

But we don't know how much of that is for his game versus his contract.

Hicks
02-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Maybe this rumor is being spread to try and convince the Cavs that other teams want Murphy and they better pony up Hickson.

Who know, I just like using the phrase "pony up"

Bird convinced the Celtics announcer to do that for our benefit?

Hicks
02-11-2010, 02:27 PM
If the goal is to put it threw the hoop he does it with the best possible shot.

Yeah, but the point is that that's all he can currently do, and he's probably feasting on LeBron James being on the floor to draw attention and then dish it to him near the hoop.

pwee31
02-11-2010, 02:38 PM
I think the reason this rumor is so intriguing is because it involves what is rumored to be what everyone wants.

The Celtics get Kevin Martin and a back up PG

Pacers trade Murphy while getting rid of Tj Ford in the process all for an expiring deal

The Kings have shown interest in Murphy, can shed some long term salary, and make Tyreke Evans the guy in Sacramento.

The real obstacle looks to be the Kings, they're essentially trading Martin for Murphy. I know some have mentioned young talent or picks going to the Kings as well, hopefully from Boston, but right now the Celtics pick is at #25. If roles were reversed and we had Kevin Martin on the Pacers, would you trade him for Troy Murphy and a 1st round late pick?

I think they'll be a catch with a deal with the Kings, with them hoping to unload the contract of Beno U., or A. Nocioni, and that's what scary.

The other hiccup is with the Pacers. There has been rumblings that the Pacers have wanted another PF back in the Murphy deal to the Cavs. Does the bonus of getting rid of Tj a year early make you drop that claim, or are you still looking for a Glen Davis, or Jason Thompson in return?

A lot of questions to be asked about this rumor, though I must admit it's starting to get exciting around here again!!

wintermute
02-11-2010, 02:57 PM
new rumor from sam amick of sacramento bee

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html



TROY MURPHY A KING? POSSIBLY

As of my last trade blog post, I hadn't been told that the notion of Indiana-forward-Troy Murphy-to-the-Kings was legit. That has changed, however, as sources close to the Pacers say there is significant Kings interest in the 29-year-old forward.

And while I had alluded to a possible three-team deal sending Kevin Martin to Dallas, Josh Howard and his $10.8 million expiring contract to Indiana and Murphy to Sacramento, I've been told that the Kings are pursuing a straight up deal centered around the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas ($8.5 million).

The Pacers reportedly want to shed themselves of Murphy's salary, and Thomas would almost do it on his own. He makes $11 million this season and nearly $12 million next season (the final one on his deal). Indiana would surely push to include at least one of the Kings' young prospects (Donte' Greene?) but the Kings may ask that they take on point guard Beno Udrih and his contract that runs through 2013 (player option in final season) and has a combined $21.7 million remaining after this season.

If the Kings could get Murphy without giving up Martin, they would obviously push their payroll to a much higher number but would have a chance to look at that mix for a while. If it doesn't work, you still having the ability to make big changes in the summer. Intriguing idea, to be sure.


this makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that the kings would give up kevin martin for murphy. kenny thomas expiring contract plus a young player. seems good to me.

CableKC
02-11-2010, 02:58 PM
If I were forced to take a long-term contract back from the kings ( while sending out Ford AND Murphy )...and it was a choice between Beno and Nocioni....I'd take Nocioni. He's a solid SF that is big and tough enough to play some backup PF minutes. He does have a contract that lasts beyond the 2010-2012 season....but he's ( essentially ) a 2011-2012 Expiring Contract.

Speed
02-11-2010, 03:08 PM
I like Nocioni, I've always thought he was a little chippy, not a bad thing to me.

I don't get the Beno thing, do they mean instead of Kenny Thomas or in addition to? He makes 6 right now up to 7.8 in 3 years from now. I mean that defeats the purpose, doesn't it, if it's instead of. If it's in addition to Kenny Thomas' contract, is it Ford that's in play for Beno then? I'm confused. Clarification, anyone?

Greene seems like a player to covet. I did hear him reference as a guy who doesn't pass readily, but still his percentages and numbers look good and he turns 22 in 11 days.

90'sNBARocked
02-11-2010, 03:09 PM
What it shows is how much power the KING has. When he speaks Cleveland FO listens.

It doesn't help constantly hearing how Shaq has taken to tutoring him either.

Am i the only one that cant stand the term "King James"?

I think its to glorifying

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 03:10 PM
I like Nocioni, I've always thought he was a little chippy, not a bad thing to me.

I don't get the Beno thing, do they mean instead of Kenny Thomas or in addition to? He makes 6 right now up to 7.8 in 3 years from now. I mean that defeats the purpose, doesn't it, if it's instead of. If it's in addition to Kenny Thomas' contract, is it Ford that's in play for Beno then? I'm confused. Clarification, anyone?

Greene seems like a player to covet. I did hear him reference as a guy who doesn't pass readily, but still his percentages and numbers look good and he turns 22 in 11 days.

I think that is in addition to and if for some reason we do take Beno (who is a pretty good IMO backup point guard - like we need another one of those) the Kings would have to probably take another player we want to get rid of and or fgive us a younger player that we really want. Kings want to get rid of beno and Thomas

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2010, 03:11 PM
The Sacramento trade sounds great as long as we aren't taking back any more longterm salary. Troy Murphy for Expiring Contract + Donte Green?Where do we sign?

count55
02-11-2010, 03:12 PM
new rumor from sam amick of sacramento bee

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html



this makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that the kings would give up kevin martin for murphy. kenny thomas expiring contract plus a young player. seems good to me.

Taking Udrih back seems ultimately self defeating...it's a small version of Murphleavy trade, with Donte Greene reprising the role of Ike Diogu.

Granville
02-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Taking Udrih back seems ultimately self defeating...it's a small version of Murphleavy trade, with Donte Greene reprising the role of Ike Diogu.

I agree. There was a thread a month or so ago asking what we wanted the Pacers to do. I said what I didn't want them to do was make a trade for a marginal talent upgrade that extended our "salary cap jail" sentence. I think this is that type of trade and would not be happy with it (if we have to take Udrih too).

count55
02-11-2010, 03:20 PM
I agree. There was a thread a month or so ago asking what we wanted the Pacers to do. I said what I didn't want them to do was make a trade for a marginal talent upgrade that extended our "salary cap jail" sentence. I think this is that type of trade and would not be happy with it (if we have to take Udrih too).

My position would be, "If you want me to take Udrih, then you're gonna have to give me Tyreke, and you're not gonna give me Tyreke, so let this be the last we speak of Udrih."

pwee31
02-11-2010, 03:25 PM
This deal with the Kings straight up is essentially the same deal we want from the Cavs, and expiring contract (in this case Thomas) and a young prospect. Problem being the Cavs really only have Hickson, where the Kings have Greene, Thompson, and Casspi to name a few.

I mentioned earlier that I felt the Kings wanted to rid themselves of Beno or Nocioni, problem being they have an extra year on their contract to those we have expiring.

To take back Beno or Nocioni, then Dunleavy or Ford would probably have to be included as well.

Perhaps Bird message to be patient, is just his way of saying, I know we're bad... and I'm working on

Speed
02-11-2010, 03:30 PM
My position would be, "If you want me to take Udrih, then you're gonna have to give me Tyreke, and you're not gonna give me Tyreke, so let this be the last we speak of Udrih."

I'd say Jason Thompson or Casspi or this year's #1 and Donte Greene be included then, if Udrih is part of it. I kinda like Udrih, just not his contract. 7 million is too much for a guy like him, obviously. Like pwee31 says they have the kind of young players/assets that the Pacers would like. Right now Udrih would be being paid less than Tinsley is though, just to put it in perspective, but i understand it's the length of contract as much as the dollar amount.

I agree completely though, let's not perpetuate this thing.

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 03:32 PM
If there is a way we can get Jason Thompson in the Murphy trade, we need to pull the trigger. Supposedly Marc Stein says SAC offered Thompson + Thomas for Murphy but I've yet to find proof of that.

count55
02-11-2010, 03:34 PM
Right now Udrih would be being paid less than Tinsley is though, just to put it in perspective.

No, he wouldn't. Tins got less than $11 mil in the buyout, so his cap hit is well below Udrih's current and future salary (for next season).

Speed
02-11-2010, 03:36 PM
If there is a way we can get Jason Thompson in the Murphy trade, we need to pull the trigger. Supposedly Marc Stein says SAC offered Thompson + Thomas for Murphy but I've yet to find proof of that.

There must have been a catch if this is true.

count55
02-11-2010, 03:37 PM
If there is a way we can get Jason Thompson in the Murphy trade, we need to pull the trigger. Supposedly Marc Stein says SAC offered Thompson + Thomas for Murphy but I've yet to find proof of that.

Yeah, I saw that, too, but I'm not believing it...at least not until I see it under Stein's byline.

That deal is light years better than Hickson/Z.

wintermute
02-11-2010, 03:41 PM
i can't imagine the kings would give up thompson. casspi seems improbable too. more likely to be greene or hawes. i'm not a fan of either player, but an asset is an asset.

Speed
02-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Jason Thompson is 10th in the league in offensive boards per game. Can't be true. If it is, the paperwork should have already been submitted to the league.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Jason is a better player than JJ, come on Larry make it happen

Speed
02-11-2010, 03:48 PM
I call shenanigans on the Marc Stein/Jason Thompson rumor, just doesn't make sense.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 03:51 PM
Ugh we will be droning on about this murphy trade for next 7 days...

For the people that just say no way would Sacto trade thomspon for Murphy, look many of have an opinion of Murphy based solely on his defense and JOB, but Murphy is a double double guy who can shoot the 3. Thats very valuable, other teams have a different roster than us and could thus cover up Murphy's terrible defense. We just can't do that. So its not out of the realm that a team would give up a young talent for and an Expiring for Murphy, if they thought that he would help them make a playoff run.

Hicks
02-11-2010, 03:53 PM
Ugh we will be droning on about this murphy trade for next 7 days...

The last seven days before the trading deadline are a lot more fun/interesting than the first several dozen days. I'm just happy to be done with the first several dozen for this year.

Unclebuck
02-11-2010, 03:53 PM
Ugh we will be droning on about this murphy trade for next 7 days...

Isn't that better than droning on and on about Jim O'Brien. I mean is there anything left for anyone to say about JOB. I would rather discuss bogus trade rumors or certainly legitimate trade rumors.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Isn't that better than droning on and on about Jim O'Brien. I mean is there anything left for anyone to say about JOB. I would rather discuss bogus trade rumors or certainly legitimate trade rumors.

no I agree, but it just hit me, that this deadline is 7 days away, its going to get old and frustrating by day 5-6. We'll be screaming at Bird to make trade just so we will feel good! LOL. Its like craving a hit of crack.

diamonddave00
02-11-2010, 04:09 PM
Jason Thompson started the season well but has struggled of late ( he's on my fantasy team) , but I see no way he's traded for Troy (also on my team). Jason would be a great young addition IF there is any truth to this.

I'd personally prefer Thompson alone to Hickson and a Cavs #1.

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 04:10 PM
no I agree, but it just hit me, that this deadline is 7 days away, its going to get old and frustrating by day 5-6. We'll be screaming at Bird to make trade just so we will feel good! LOL. Its like craving a hit of crack.

Exactly! I just hope Bird doesn't get as antsy as we are and end up pulling the trigger on a weak trade (Murphy for Z straight up).

Lance George
02-11-2010, 04:13 PM
As far as I can tell, the Jason Thompson rumor goes back to a guy in the comments section at FanNation (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/156590-three-teams-asking-pacers-about-murphy#comments) (S.I. website). It sounds too good to be true, but looking through the guys comment history, he doesn't seem to a troll of any sort.

Assuming it's true, the only reasonable explanations I can fathom is that the Kings like Troy a lot more than we realize or Thompson is their only (non-Evans) young'en that could get us to take on Udrih's contract.

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 04:18 PM
I think I could accept taking on Udrih's contract if it meant we got Thompson in the deal. We're going to need PG depth anyway with Watson and Diener being up at the end of the year, not wanting Ford on the roster, and still not knowing exactly how important Price is going to be for our future PG plans.

MLB007
02-11-2010, 04:20 PM
I have a hard time believing the Kings would trade Kevin Martin for Troy Murphy straight up, which is basically what this trade is on their end. If it comes down to giving up future picks or assets, then I say a big no to this deal.

As much as people say they don't wan't to give up Troy for a pure salary dump (which this still is, just now its a ford/murphy salary dump for nothing). The thing that scares me the most is having to give up assets to dump salary.

Not to mention the unintended improvement to our win total by adding the Ray Allen rental, thus hurting our lottery position.

Subtracting Troys rebounding with Foster lost and Tyler sitting and this team won't be winning any more with Ray Allen (who isn't the same Ray Allen) that we are now.

Granville
02-11-2010, 04:27 PM
Subtracting Troys rebounding with Foster lost and Tyler sitting and this team won't be winning any more with Ray Allen (who isn't the same Ray Allen) that we are now.

It also seems to me that Ray Allen would be one of those vets an acquiring team would buy out so he could hook up with a contender. I'd be shocked if he ever suited up for the Pacers.

CableKC
02-11-2010, 04:53 PM
I think I could accept taking on Udrih's contract if it meant we got Thompson in the deal. We're going to need PG depth anyway with Watson and Diener being up at the end of the year, not wanting Ford on the roster, and still not knowing exactly how important Price is going to be for our future PG plans.
Before you go any further on this line of thought....have you seen Beno's contract?

He's owed :

$6,031,800 ( 2009-2010 )
$6,478,600 ( 2010-2011 )
$6,925,400 ( 2011-2012 )
$7,372,200 ( 2012-2013 - Player Option )

This a Tinsley-like contract for a PG. He's put up good numbers this season....but when I saw him play in SacTown, I saw a better scoring version of Diener....a scrappy PG that is always moving and capable of scoring....but really nothing more then a decent Backup PG. Taking him on for Jason Thompson is simply not worth it.

As for what our plans are for AJ....I think it's pretty obvious that he's ( at worst ) slated to be a solid backup PG for the immediate future. Just because JO'B decided to kick him back to the curb as our 3rd string PG means nothing.....he's IMHO proved that he's worthy of ( at the very least ) a spot as our future backup PG.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 04:55 PM
no I agree, but it just hit me, that this deadline is 7 days away, its going to get old and frustrating by day 5-6. We'll be screaming at Bird to make trade just so we will feel good! LOL. Its like craving a hit of crack.

How would you know? Hmmm?

CableKC
02-11-2010, 04:56 PM
It also seems to me that Ray Allen would be one of those vets an acquiring team would buy out so he could hook up with a contender. I'd be shocked if he ever suited up for the Pacers.
I'd wish for him to suit up at least one game so that we can say that we had Ray Allen in a Pacer uniform :cloud9:

Trophy
02-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Someone on the Kings that I like is Spencer Hawes who I think can play the PF here alongside Roy. Hawes steps away from the post for a 3 on occasion and I think that would be fine for this team. The problem is would the Kings look to move him for Troy?

SMosley21
02-11-2010, 05:02 PM
Before you go any further on this line of thought....have you seen Beno's contract?

He's owed :

$6,031,800 ( 2009-2010 )
$6,478,600 ( 2010-2011 )
$6,925,400 ( 2011-2012 )
$7,372,200 ( 2012-2013 - Player Option )

This a Tinsley-like contract for a PG. He's put up good numbers this season....but when I saw him play in SacTown, I saw a better scoring version of Diener....a scrappy PG that is always moving and capable of scoring....but really nothing more then a decent Backup PG. Taking him on for Jason Thompson is simply not worth it.

As for what our plans are for AJ....I think it's pretty obvious that he's ( at worst ) slated to be a solid backup PG for the immediate future. Just because JO'B decided to kick him back to the curb as our 3rd string PG means nothing.....he's IMHO proved that he's worthy of ( at the very least ) a spot as our future backup PG.

I'm just not getting my hopes too high. Basically we saw a month of play from AJ and while I will agree he looked pretty good out there, how many times have teams had a young player have a quick start and look like they're really going to be something then have them come back down to Earth and be stuck asking "where'd that guy go?" I just think we haven't seen enough of AJ to really say whether or not he REALLY figures into our core 3-5 years down the line.

Then again that goes into the whole argument of Obie not developing him so that we actually know if he can maintain that production over the course of a full season.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 05:12 PM
I just looked at ESPN trade machine, and I think Murphy for Thomas and one of their minor young players is what would happen. Martin and Thompson is just wishful dreaming.

Someone like Armstrong?

CableKC
02-11-2010, 05:29 PM
I'm just not getting my hopes too high. Basically we saw a month of play from AJ and while I will agree he looked pretty good out there, how many times have teams had a young player have a quick start and look like they're really going to be something then have them come back down to Earth and be stuck asking "where'd that guy go?" I just think we haven't seen enough of AJ to really say whether or not he REALLY figures into our core 3-5 years down the line.

Then again that goes into the whole argument of Obie not developing him so that we actually know if he can maintain that production over the course of a full season.
I know that it's all a matter of opinion.....so I can see arguments that AJ may or may not be part of the future core.

But regardless of what one thinks of AJ.....I'm guessing that we can at least agree that a backup PG like Beno that is owed $6.5 to $7.5 mil a year over the next 4 seasons :eek: is not worth taking on just to get Jason Thompson. Seriously....I'll take my chances on some 2nd round PF in the draft then be forced to take on a backup PG that is paid Starting PG $$$.

Also....I'm a pessimist when it comes to Murphy's trade value. I'm guessing that it would come down to Kenny Thomas ( did he play for JO'B when he was in Philly? ) and a prospect....although I hope it's someone like Donta.....I wouldnt' be surprised if the best offer that Bird gets in return is Jon Brockman.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 06:12 PM
I think I could accept taking on Udrih's contract if it meant we got Thompson in the deal. We're going to need PG depth anyway with Watson and Diener being up at the end of the year, not wanting Ford on the roster, and still not knowing exactly how important Price is going to be for our future PG plans.


I'd rather have Sergio R. as PG. They can keep Udrih and his contract.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 06:18 PM
Someone like Armstrong?


OH please NOT Hilton Armstrong!

If no Thompson, then Donte Greene.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 06:21 PM
wouldnt' be surprised if the best offer that Bird gets in return is Jon Brockman.


Don't need him. He's a re-run shorter version of Tyler.

Lance George
02-11-2010, 07:06 PM
The Kings also have Sergio Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3025), a pass-first point guard who's putting up really good production for his minutes (per36: 16.4 ppg & 8.7 apg). I'd probably take him over Greene.

Thomas & Rodriguez for Murphy works.

Sookie
02-11-2010, 07:10 PM
The Kings also have Sergio Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3025), a pass-first point guard who's putting up really good production for his minutes (per36: 16.4 ppg & 8.7 apg). I'd probably take him over Greene.

Thomas & Rodriguez for Murphy works.

why? so we can have two young promising point guards JOB won't play?

Trophy
02-11-2010, 08:06 PM
How about Ime Udoka? He was signed for this season only and his defense is alright.

pwee31
02-11-2010, 08:07 PM
I was just watching TNT and Webber said that he got a call from Kevin McHale saying the Cavs could be close to making a big deal, and tonight could be the last time the Cavs roster/lineup is the same.

Didn't mention any names, just passing along the news

count55
02-11-2010, 08:22 PM
I was just watching TNT and Webber said that he got a call from Kevin McHale saying the Cavs could be close to making a big deal, and tonight could be the last time the Cavs roster/lineup is the same.

Didn't mention any names, just passing along the news

Yeah, John Karalis of Red's Army tweeted: @red94_blog

chris webber hinting that troy murphy acquisition for cavs could be imminent

Of course, he's just watching TV, so...

Thesterovic
02-11-2010, 08:25 PM
JJ Hickson killing it right now.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 08:26 PM
Wow I can only hope its true, though I kinda wish we were doing a deal with Sacto now!

BornReady
02-11-2010, 08:45 PM
donte greene plz and thank you

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 08:47 PM
The Kings also have Sergio Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3025), a pass-first point guard who's putting up really good production for his minutes (per36: 16.4 ppg & 8.7 apg). I'd probably take him over Greene.

Thomas & Rodriguez for Murphy works.


This trade works fine.


Thomas... 8.77 mil Expiring
Sergio..... 1.57 mil
Greene.... .88 mil


Murphy..... 11.0 mil
Diener..... 1.7 mil Expiring
Head....... .82 mil Expiring

Trophy
02-11-2010, 08:57 PM
JJ Hickson killing it right now.

He's playing like Tyler.

PacerGuy
02-11-2010, 09:02 PM
If we do a Cle deal I could see it something like:
Murphy/Watson/Head
for
Z/Hickerson/Green/'10 1st

I think LB would give Watson/Head the opportunity to win a ring, & we get the youth.

The ironic thing would be that LB is helping to beat D.Ainge.


(Too bad Foster is out, I'd like to see what he would have brought to the table!)

El Pacero
02-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere... not sure how much of an update it is.

Plain Dealer Trade Update (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/shaq_vs_to_return_for_second_s.html)
By Brian Windhorst, The Plain Dealer
February 11, 2010, 7:41PM

Trade update: There's a moratorium on trades being completed or announced over All-Star Weekend so there won't be anything done until Monday.

However, the Cavs have intensified trade talks over the past several days and have been making some progress, according to sources.

Several sources have said the Cavs have included the Houston Rockets and Detroit Pistons in their conversations, possibly in an attempt to set up three-team deals. The Cavs' major targets are still believed to be forwards Antawn Jamison and Troy Murphy. But they have been having some conversations about shooting guards and the talks with the Pistons could involve Richard Hamilton, who has been made available in recent weeks.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 09:12 PM
I would do this, but I don't think LB nor Cleveland would do it.

Pacers trade Murphy, Ford, Head for Z, Hickson, West.

I like West as a player, he's a good shooter and can play both guard positions very well, but I would expect him to play more SG. LB would say no to him mainly due to character.

Not sure if Cleveland wants TJ and his contract.

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 09:17 PM
I would do this, but I don't think LB nor Cleveland would do it.

Pacers trade Murphy, Ford, Head for Z, Hickson, West.

I like West as a player, he's a good shooter and can play both guard positions very well, but I would expect him to play more SG. LB would say no to him mainly due to character.

Not sure if Cleveland wants TJ and his contract.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/18/delonte-west-arrested-on-gun-charge/

By Matt Moore

The Washington Post reports (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/18/AR2009091802528.html) that West was arrested Thursday night after being stopped on his three-wheeled motorcycle. He cut off a police officer and after being stopped, informed the arresting officer he had a gun in his waistband. After backup arrived, police actually found three weapons on his person. A second weapon was strapped to his leg, and another was in a guitar case strapped to his back.

Yes, just like in "Desperado (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112851/)."

I don't see us getting Delonte anytime soon :p

ksuttonjr76
02-11-2010, 09:19 PM
I must be dreaming. Is Troy Murphy really being THAT sought after by other teams? I know Murphy must be loving the attention.

Trophy
02-11-2010, 09:28 PM
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/18/delonte-west-arrested-on-gun-charge/

By Matt Moore

The Washington Post reports (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/18/AR2009091802528.html) that West was arrested Thursday night after being stopped on his three-wheeled motorcycle. He cut off a police officer and after being stopped, informed the arresting officer he had a gun in his waistband. After backup arrived, police actually found three weapons on his person. A second weapon was strapped to his leg, and another was in a guitar case strapped to his back.

Yes, just like in "Desperado (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112851/)."

I don't see us getting Delonte anytime soon :p

That specifically is the reason why Bird wouldn't acquire him.

Sookie
02-11-2010, 09:29 PM
I must be dreaming. Is Troy Murphy really being THAT sought after by other teams? I know Murphy must be loving the attention.

He does have really good stats. And as others have said, would be a really good 6th/7th player.

I think he'd be especially perfect for Lebron. People always say that Lebron's team would suck without him. True. But Lebron's team is completely built around Lebron's strengths. Having a PF that wants to get out of his way and shoot threes is perfect for Lebron.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 09:29 PM
I must be dreaming. Is Troy Murphy really being THAT sought after by other teams? I know Murphy must be loving the attention.


It really has me wound up that possibly something will come from it. Just think of getting a youngster like Hickson, Greene, or Thompson for the future! Then getting a 4-7 pick in the draft puts some real interest in seeing next season.

ksuttonjr76
02-11-2010, 09:41 PM
It really has me wound up that possibly something will come from it. Just think of getting a youngster like Hickson, Greene, or Thompson for the future! Then getting a 4-7 pick in the draft puts some real interest in seeing next season.

True that. Indiana will become a pretty solid young team, and then they can follow ATL's blueprint for success.

Price/Ford (if he's not traded)
Rush/D. Jones
Granger/Dunleavy
Hansbrough/(Hickson, Greene, or Thompson)
Hibbert/Solo or McRoberts
Plus 4-7 pick

I can get behind this team of the future.

Will Galen
02-11-2010, 10:13 PM
It really has me wound up that possibly something will come from it. Just think of getting a youngster like Hickson, Greene, or Thompson for the future! Then getting a 4-7 pick in the draft puts some real interest in seeing next season.

Don't get to high, don't get to low. We don't know what can be done and what can't be done. I just read on hoopshype where one guy in the know said half the stuff out there is pure BS.

It's bad enough when you hear something that was on the verge of going down and didn't. For instant, last year Bird was within ten minutes of getting rid of Tinsley and it fell though. That had to be a real low for the front office. Because that was a bummer for me when I heard it.

Mr. Sobchak
02-11-2010, 10:18 PM
Hickson with 20 at 9:24 to go in the 4th...

PaceBalls
02-11-2010, 10:28 PM
Hickson with 20 at 9:24 to go in the 4th...

He is laying all out on the line tonight in an last ditch effort to not get traded to the Pacers.

Sookie
02-11-2010, 10:29 PM
He is laying all out on the line tonight in an last ditch effort to not get traded to the Pacers.

Yea, I was thinking that..after this game..the Cavs will turn us down.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 10:58 PM
I was just watching TNT and Webber said that he got a call from Kevin McHale saying the Cavs could be close to making a big deal, and tonight could be the last time the Cavs roster/lineup is the same.

Didn't mention any names, just passing along the news

Kevin Mchale? Larry told him? or is the trade with the Celtics maybe?

imawhat
02-11-2010, 11:06 PM
I kind of like Hickson, but more as a trade asset. His defense isn't really there, and we strongly need a presence next to Hibbert. I haven't seen a player mentioned in any trade rumors that complement Roy very well. Maybe if Boston throws Kendrick Perkins in there I"ll get very excited.

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 11:08 PM
I kind of like Hickson, but more as a trade asset. His defense isn't really there, and we strongly need a presence next to Hibbert. I haven't seen a player mentioned in any trade rumors that complement Roy very well. Maybe if Boston throws Kendrick Perkins in there I"ll get very excited.

Amare?

PacerGuy
02-11-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by imawhat
I kind of like Hickson, but more as a trade asset. His defense isn't really there, and we strongly need a presence next to Hibbert. I haven't seen a player mentioned in any trade rumors that complement Roy very well. Maybe if Boston throws Kendrick Perkins in there I"ll get very excited.

Amare?
Personally I think Boozer is a MUCH better fit.
Amare is use to playing C, Boozer PF.
Amare does not have a 10-15' game, Boozer does.
Amare is a Premidona, Boozer not so much.

pwee31
02-11-2010, 11:31 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere... not sure how much of an update it is.

Plain Dealer Trade Update (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/shaq_vs_to_return_for_second_s.html)
By Brian Windhorst, The Plain Dealer
February 11, 2010, 7:41PM

Trade update: There's a moratorium on trades being completed or announced over All-Star Weekend so there won't be anything done until Monday.

However, the Cavs have intensified trade talks over the past several days and have been making some progress, according to sources.

Several sources have said the Cavs have included the Houston Rockets and Detroit Pistons in their conversations, possibly in an attempt to set up three-team deals. The Cavs' major targets are still believed to be forwards Antawn Jamison and Troy Murphy. But they have been having some conversations about shooting guards and the talks with the Pistons could involve Richard Hamilton, who has been made available in recent weeks.

All this news just keeps making things more and more interesting, not sure what the Pistons or Rockets would have to offer, or for what, but this trade deadline could be fun.

I seriously doubt it'll be a dud like last year

Mr. Sobchak
02-11-2010, 11:54 PM
Amare is a terrible defender. He and Roy might compliment each other on offense, but it would be a disaster defensively.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 01:59 AM
If there is some deal involving the Kings and Kenny Thomas' Expiring contract, assuming that the Pacers are asking for a prospect back....therefore 2 players have to go out and 2 have to come back....unless it involves a 3rd Team or the trade is expanded to include more than 2 players, it would likely be:

Murphy+Diener

for

KThomas+( Jason Thompson , Spencer Hawes, Sergio Rodriguez or Hilton Armstrong )

Donte Greene doesn't have a big enough contract to make salaries match. From that standpoint, I'd choose between Jason Thompson or Hawes....obviously going with Thompson. I'm hoping that Petrie REALLY wants Murphy :pray:

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 05:38 AM
Don't get to high, don't get to low. We don't know what can be done and what can't be done. I just read on hoopshype where one guy in the know said half the stuff out there is pure BS.



What else is there to get interested in with the Pacers.

O'Brien?
Bird?
18-34 record?
Injuries to Dunleavy and Foster?
Watching 20 plus 3's shot per game?
Helter skelter run n gun with little "D" play?
The close playoff race the Pacers are in?

All of the above?

owl
02-12-2010, 08:25 AM
I do find the record moderately interesting as it determines the Pacers draft pick.
Six right now and one game out of fourth.

Speed
02-12-2010, 09:56 AM
http://my.journaltimes.com/post/woelfel-world-of-sports/bucks_trade_talks_heat_up.html

Bucks' trade talks heat up

Posted by: gwoelfel on February 11, 2010 at 11:16PM CST

GERY WOELFEL

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The Milwaukee Bucks aren’t leaving any stone unturned.


With the NBA deadline fast approaching, the Bucks are exploring a wide-range of possibilities with the clear intention of obtaining a player to enhance their playoff chances.


It’s no secret the Bucks would like to obtain a veteran big man and a swingman. Troy Murphy of the Indiana Pacers would certainly fit the bill of the former.


Murphy, 29, is being shopped by the Pacers and the Bucks, as the Cleveland Plain Dealer recently reported, are among several teams that have an interest in him.


The Bucks have actually had their eyes on Murphy for a while. They appeared poised to acquire him several years ago when he played for the Golden State Warriors but backed off because of his hefty contract.

But Murphy’s salary doesn’t figure to be an obstacle now. Murphy, who is earning $11 million this season, has only one more season left on his contract and that is for $11.9 million.


The Bucks and Pacers have bandied about several players in exchange for the 6-foot-11 Murphy, who is averaging 14 points and 9.9 rebounds this season. One of those players is Ersan Ilyasova.

The Pacers want Ilyasova, but the Bucks don’t want to give him up. Ilyasova is only 22, capable of playing both forward positions and has flashed signs of becoming a big-time scorer.

While he is averaging a modest 10.5 points and 6.3 rebounds, Ilyasova has had five 20-plus games this season, including 25 against the New York and 24 against Portland and the Los Angeles Lakers.

He also had 20-point outing against Orlando and San Antonio, two of the best teams in the NBA.

The Pacers would also like veteran point guard Luke Ridnour, but apparently would still do the deal if he wasn’t included in the package.

Ridnour is having a quality season, averaging 11.1 points and 3.9 assists in 22 minutes while playing behind rookie Brandon Jennings.

He has shot the ball extremely well: 48 percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point range and 92 percent at the line.

While the Bucks have had serious discussions with the Pacers, they have also been in talks with the Atlanta Hawks.

The Hawks are in the market for another big man and have more than a passing interest in Bucks veteran Kurt Thomas.

The Bucks have expressed interest in Hawks swingman Maurice Evans who isn’t much of an offensive threat -- 4.9 points in 15 minutes a game this season – but a stellar defender.

Because Thomas makes $3.8 million and Evans makes $2.5 million, the Hawks would have to throw in another player to make the deal work. One possibility would be Randolph Morris, a 24-year-old forward who makes $855,000. Morris is averaging 2.3 points in 22 games.

* Like many teams, the Bucks have looked into the possibility of acquiring two-time All-Star Caron Butler of the Washington Wizards.

However, with the Bucks unwilling to trade either Andrew Bogut or Brandon Jennings, they don’t have the necessary ammo to acquire the Racine native.

Butler’s name continues to be linked with the Dallas Mavericks, who are apparently willing to give up Josh Howard.

* Washington, New York and Houston haven’t pulled the plug on a much-discussed three-way trade, but I was told Thursday the deal wouldn’t likely go down.
It looks more and more like the Rockets and Tracy McGrady will agree on a buyout.

* All indicators point toward the Toronto Raptors holding onto superstar Chris Bosh, who becomes an unrestricted free agent this summer.

* It’s been reported Charlotte coach Larry Brown wouldn’t mind coaching the 76ers next season.

I’m hearing Brown wouldn’t be opposed to coaching the Los Angeles Clippers, either.

* Bucks player rep Charlie Bell won’t be attending the players association meetings in Dallas this weekend and will instead spend time with his ailing grandfather.
Luc Mbah a Moute will fill in for Bell.

Roaming Gnome
02-12-2010, 10:53 AM
Illyasova...? Might as well keep Murphy!

Ridnour too...
:50cent:

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 11:30 AM
If Bird is interested in obtaining both Illyasova and Ridnour, I'm with him on it. It's not my 1st choice as a trade, but it's not bad either. I just don't see any expiring to help the Pacers unless this deal is expanded, or unless Bird has another trade up his sleeve to get an expiring.

Oops! Ridnour is an expiring. Now, that sounds even better.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
I heard Joe Alexander has been mentioned from the Bucks as well

Also apparently Morway was "cautiously optimistic" last night on the Mark Patrick radio show

http://www.indycornrows.com/2010/2/12/1307116/pacers-news?ref=yahoo


The Indiana Pacers are popping up in more and more rumors and reports about negotiations around the league leading up to the trade deadline next Thursday. There appears to be a market for Troy Murphy which may allow the Pacers to trade him for more than just an expiring contract.

Last evening I heard David Morway on the radio with Mark Patrick (sorry no interview link, I only heard it once so I'm paraphrasing liberally). Obviously, he couldn't talk in specifics about any trade scenarios or players, but he sure gave off a vibe that something to his liking was brewing. In fact, he even initially phrased it as a possible "deal or two" before the deadline. Mark Patrick picked up on the vibe which forced Morway to retreat to the usual nothing is done, you never know-type of qualifiers before landing on being "cautiously optimistic" that some thing will get done. That's still pretty positive for GM speak.

The good thing for the Pacers is that dealing Murphy or any of the big contracts isn't critical right now. They'll be just as valuable, if not more, this summer around the draft. I want to see a deal that helps the team's cap situation at a minimum. Tacking on a young player or pick would also be nice, but completing that deal by next Thursday isn't a must.

If feels like it's a must because everyone wants to speed up the rebuilding process but really, even the most lucrative of the rumored deals for Murphy won't make an impact on this current season. So whether it happens now or in the summer doesn't matter. I'm desperate for a deal (or two, I'd take two) by next week just because I'd love some fresh air to blow through the locker room, plus it would be nice to write about something else. There would be a short-term public relations boost with a deal, as well, but again, there's no quick fix out there aside from some lottery luck.

count55
02-12-2010, 12:20 PM
I heard Joe Alexander has been mentioned from the Bucks as well

Also apparently Morway was "cautiously optimistic" last night on the Mark Patrick radio show

http://www.indycornrows.com/2010/2/12/1307116/pacers-news?ref=yahoo

On a side note...if you aren't checking Indycornrows.com for any and all stuff that Tom Lewis is writing, you're really cheating yourself as a Pacer fan.

wintermute
02-12-2010, 12:28 PM
On a side note...if you aren't checking Indycornrows.com for any and all stuff that Tom Lewis is writing, you're really cheating yourself as a Pacer fan.

yup. i kinda like that other site too. what's it called? eightpointsnineseconds.com ? ;)

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 12:30 PM
By my count Hickson is 13-73 (.178) from outside of the paint. Yikes.

Exactly, with the Cavs acting like he is untouchable

put him as the startign forward on the Nets and he will make McRobberts look like Dirk

wintermute
02-12-2010, 12:30 PM
do any of you like to browse other teams' forums during trade season? if you do, you must have seen the reactions from kings fans and bucks fans along the lines of "why do we want murphy? WHY???" heh. yeah i know, it's schadenfraude, so what.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 12:41 PM
do any of you like to browse other teams' forums during trade season? if you do, you must have seen the reactions from kings fans and bucks fans along the lines of "why do we want murphy? WHY???" heh. yeah i know, it's schadenfraude, so what.

Yeah I've browse a few and some of them aren't happy. Most of them are simply frustrated with some of the trade scenarios.

It's funny b/c a lot of them will discuss how well Murphy could fit in, and then offer an expiring contract and garbage for him.

I think wherever Murphy ends up, folks will be shocked at the player or 2 that's added with the expiring contract.

I have a feeling he's going to get us back a nice young player

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 12:41 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html


If Donte Greene is traded, Petrie needs to have his extension revoked immediately. He has shown the most promise of any King outside of Tyreke. Great defender, can nail the 3-ball and finishes well at the rim. He will be a starter by next year and possibly an all-star in the future if he keeps his focus. He has improved THAT much.


From a Sacremento fan board. If we cant get Martin, lets get Green /Thomas and a number 1

Trophy
02-12-2010, 12:43 PM
Ridnour is like Diener getting a bunch of minutes as a backup.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Ridnour is like Diener getting a bunch of minutes as a backup.
Actually.....Diener wishes that he can one day grow up to be like Ridnour.

Ridnour is a much better version of Diener....specifically one that is capable of hitting shots. Both are backup PGs to say the least.....but Ridnour is a much better one then Diener is.

Sookie
02-12-2010, 01:58 PM
Actually.....Diener wishes that he can one day grow up to be like Ridnour.

Ridnour is a much better version of Diener....specifically one that is capable of hitting shots. Both are backup PGs to say the least.....but Ridnour is a much better one then Diener is.

Don't we have enough backup PGs.

sportfireman
02-12-2010, 02:11 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html




From a Sacremento fan board. If we cant get Martin, lets get Green /Thomas and a number 1

I'd like that a whole lot more anyways.......... we need defense out there. Martin plays no D what so ever.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 02:14 PM
Don't we have enough backup PGs.
I wasn't suggesting that we should get Ridnour....I was just posting what I thought about Ridnour to Trophy. ;)

CableKC
02-12-2010, 02:23 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/trade-chatter-c.html

From a Sacremento fan board. If we cant get Martin, lets get Green /Thomas and a number 1
We can't get Greene even if we wanted to....a Murphy+Diener for KThomas+Greene does not work Salarywise.

It would have to be one of the following ( and count55 can correct me if I am wrong ):

A ) Murphy for Kenny Thomas
B ) Murphy for Kenny Thomas + future Draft Pick
C ) Murphy + Diener for Kenny Thomas + ( Pick 1 of SergioR, JasonT, SpencerH or HiltonA )

Greene simply does not have a high enough Salary to make a trade work without adding in a 3rd Player....which would probably make this more complicated since the only Player that we can probably give up would be McRoberts, Solo or someone we don't want to give up.

I'm guessing the Kings are offering Kenny Thomas ( straight up ) or Kenny Thomas + ( Sergio or Hilton ).....none of which I'd really go for.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 02:26 PM
I'd like that a whole lot more anyways.......... we need defense out there. Martin plays no D what so ever.
With BRush, Inferno and Granger.....basically whoever KMart would be paired up with....I'd have very little concern about his defense.

Justin Tyme
02-12-2010, 02:40 PM
We can't get Greene even if we wanted to....a Murphy+Diener for KThomas+Greene does not work Salarywise.

It would have to be one of the following ( and count55 can correct me if I am wrong ):

A ) Murphy for Kenny Thomas
B ) Murphy for Kenny Thomas + future Draft Pick
C ) Murphy + Diener for Kenny Thomas + ( Pick 1 of SergioR, JasonT, SpencerH or HiltonA )

Greene simply does not have a high enough Salary to make a trade work without adding in a 3rd Player....which would probably make this more complicated since the only Player that we can probably give up would be McRoberts, Solo or someone we don't want to give up.

I'm guessing the Kings are offering Kenny Thomas ( straight up ) or Kenny Thomas + ( Sergio or Hilton ).....none of which I'd really go for.


Look at post #117 I posted yesterday in this thread. It works fine.

90'sNBARocked
02-12-2010, 02:41 PM
do any of you like to browse other teams' forums during trade season? if you do, you must have seen the reactions from kings fans and bucks fans along the lines of "why do we want murphy? WHY???" heh. yeah i know, it's schadenfraude, so what.

www.realgm.com

sportfireman
02-12-2010, 03:04 PM
With BRush, Inferno and Granger.....basically whoever KMart would be paired up with....I'd have very little concern about his defense.

Having someone on your team that plays no D puts a strain on everyone else(Murphy) and seeing as how KMart is a guard his man would get to the whole easily putting pressure on everyone else leaving someone an open shot.

McKeyFan
02-12-2010, 03:10 PM
it's schadenfraude, so what.

Not in the dictionary, but wiki had it. Thanks.

Gamble1
02-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Having someone on your team that plays no D puts a strain on everyone else(Murphy) and seeing as how KMart is a guard his man would get to the whole easily putting pressure on everyone else leaving someone an open shot.
YOu can always teach someone to play some defense. I would rather take the chance with Kmart than to risk overpaying for a FA in 2010 or 2011. I mean look at the list of guys available.

sportfireman
02-12-2010, 03:20 PM
YOu can always teach someone to play some defense. I would rather take the chance with Kmart than to risk overpaying for a FA in 2010 or 2011. I mean look at the list of guys available.

:censored:then someone should teach MURPHY!!!!!!

and we need more than some defense we need guys who want to play good defense not guys that you have to talk into playing defense.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 03:32 PM
Just something on pacers.com that I found.

http://my.nba.com/cms/109859/rumor_mill_churning_as_deadline_approaches


As is generally the case when team personnel converges on one location, and especially so when the trade deadline is just a week away (Feb. 18 at 3 p.m.), the rumor mill is really starting to churn now.

And Troy Murphy is apparently becoming more popular.

Such is the case when a guy is 29 years old, following up the best season of his career with another good one, and is a regular producer of double-doubles while stretching defenses with his 3-point shooting ability.

Based on media reports, Sacramento and Milwaukee have joined Cleveland in showing interest in Murphy.

Sam Amick's blog for the Sacramento Bee website describes two scenarios in which the Kings could acquire Murphy: a three-team deal also involving Dallas that would bring Josh Howard to Indiana; and a straight-up deal that would bring the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas and possibly a young prospect.

Amick wrote that "there is significant Kings interest" in Murphy.

Veteran beat writer Gery Woelfel wrote that the Bucks "have actually had their eyes on Murphy for a while," dating back to his Golden State years.

According to Woelfel, the Pacers want 22-year-old forward Ersan Ilyasova but he's a base-year guy, which complicates the deal. Other names mentioned are Joe Alexander and Luke Ridnour.

In addition to the Kings and Bucks, the Cavs reportedly remain interested in Murphy but appear to be pursuing Washington's Antawn Jamison as their first option.

The Indy Star's Mike Wells characterizes talks between the Bucks and Pacers as being "in the very early stages."

Either of those deals would fit the Pacers' criteria for moving Murphy, which are to acquire young prospects and/or expiring contracts, writes Wells.

count55
02-12-2010, 05:42 PM
From Brian Windhorst

@PDCavsInsider


Rumors all over Dallas that the Cavs are close to a deal with the Pacers for Troy Murphy. At this point, not true. Still on table, though.

http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider/status/9028903104

pwee31
02-12-2010, 05:58 PM
From Brian Windhorst

@PDCavsInsider



http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider/status/9028903104

Probably what Webber was alluding to last night on TNT. With the Mavs/Wiz getting close to a deal for Butler and Haywood, and the Wiz planning on keeping Jamison, looks like the Cavs will have to go with plan B :happydanc

Hopefully it's not just for Z straight up!

Hicks
02-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Hmm...

QuickRelease
02-12-2010, 06:18 PM
I like West as a player, he's a good shooter

He'd better be, since he likes riding around with loaded guns. No way we touch West with a 10 foot pole, is there?

Lance George
02-12-2010, 06:26 PM
With all the teams rumored to be interested in Murphy I'm confident we'll get more than just expiring contract(s) in return. At least one of these teams will have to pony up a decent young player or pick in order to trump the other offers.

From all the young players mentioned in rumors, I'd rank them:

Jason Thompson
Ersan İlyasova
Donte Greene/J.J. Hickson
Hakim Warrick (isn't even really young)

Hicks
02-12-2010, 06:30 PM
If there's any truth to the rumors, I agree that you would think we're getting something back to go with the expiring contract. Not sure if that's a pick, a player, or both. I'm too used to disappointment to hope for both.

McKeyFan
02-12-2010, 06:35 PM
He'd better be, since he likes riding around with loaded guns. No way we touch West with a 10 foot pole, is there?

Maybe this is too much profiling, but I'm done with Delonte just because of his appearance. Dude looks weird.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 06:39 PM
With all the teams rumored to be interested in Murphy I'm confident we'll get more than just expiring contract(s) in return. At least one of these teams will have to pony up a decent young player or pick in order to trump the other offers.

From all the young players mentioned in rumors, I'd rank them:

Jason Thompson
Ersan İlyasova
Donte Greene/J.J. Hickson
Hakim Warrick (isn't even really young)

How about Joe Alexander? I think we have a better shot at getting him than Warrick. Alexander has been mentioned a few times.

Lance George
02-12-2010, 06:40 PM
NBA's Delonte West Battles Bipolar Disorder, Weapons Charges- Second Opinions - MSN Health & Fitness (http://health.msn.com/blogs/second-opinions-post.aspx?post=1300427)

A guy with a mental illness who rides around with a lot of guns probably isn't what we should be looking for right now (or ever).

Hicks
02-12-2010, 06:41 PM
How about Joe Alexander? I think we have a better shot at getting him than Warrick. Alexander has been mentioned a few times.

I thought the word was Joe was a bust?

Trophy
02-12-2010, 06:43 PM
I thought the word was Joe was a bust?

He's been mentioned in recent articles.

He, Ridnour and Ilyasova have been the only names mentioned that I can re-call.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 06:45 PM
NBA's Delonte West Battles Bipolar Disorder, Weapons Charges- Second Opinions - MSN Health & Fitness (http://health.msn.com/blogs/second-opinions-post.aspx?post=1300427)

A guy with a mental illness who rides around with a lot of guns probably isn't what we should be looking for right now (or ever).

I would trade for him if he never had this kind of baggage and poor off the court character.

Noodle
02-12-2010, 06:46 PM
How about Joe Alexander? I think we have a better shot at getting him than Warrick. Alexander has been mentioned a few times.

Joe just came back from being sent down to the D-league, and we already have a similar and more athletic guy in McRoberts. Alexander is like McRobert -1.0. A thought, but no thanks.

Lance George
02-12-2010, 06:47 PM
From Woj's Twitter (http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA):


Cavs and Celts will go head to head for Jamison, but sources say Cavs are very involved in talks for Amar'e Stoudemire.

15 minutes ago from UberTwitter

Ruh roh...

cinotimz
02-12-2010, 06:47 PM
I wonder which guard Cleveland will take in addition to Murphy.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 06:47 PM
Joe just came back from being sent down to the D-league, and we already have a similar and more athletic guy in McRoberts. Alexander is like McRobert -1.0. A thought, but no thanks.

I never said I wanted Alexander, I'd much rather have Josh, but I'm just saying he's another name that was mentioned.

1984
02-12-2010, 07:02 PM
According to some rumblings made by Mike Gorman, broadcaster for the Celts, there is a possible package out there for Indy/SAC/BOS which would revolve around the following premise deal:

To Boston: Kevin Martin, TJ Ford

To Indiana: Ray Allen

To Sacramento: Troy Murphy




Yes, that's what I want... To watch a player break Reggie's three point record in Conseco.

Tom White
02-12-2010, 07:02 PM
From Woj's Twitter (http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA):



Ruh roh...

On the other hand, Woj may be doing a lot of rumor-mongering to widen his readership.

BillS
02-12-2010, 07:06 PM
According to some rumblings made by Mike Gorman, broadcaster for the Celts, there is a possible package out there for Indy/SAC/BOS which would revolve around the following premise deal:

To Boston: Kevin Martin, TJ Ford

To Indiana: Ray Allen

To Sacramento: Troy Murphy





Yes, that's what I want... To get rid of Troy and TJ in exchange for a player capable of breaking Reggie's three point record.

fixed :devil:

Thesterovic
02-12-2010, 07:07 PM
According to some rumblings made by Mike Gorman, broadcaster for the Celts, there is a possible package out there for Indy/SAC/BOS which would revolve around the following premise deal:

To Boston: Kevin Martin, TJ Ford

To Indiana: Ray Allen

To Sacramento: Troy Murphy




Yes, that's what I want... To watch a player break Reggie's three point record in Conseco.

This would be one of the greatest trades in Pacer's history. If Bird gets this done, I would cry. Get rid of our god awful contracts, and get Ray Allen, That'd be great. Especially if we could extend him somehow for 2 years/6m or something as a retirement deal being a mentor.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 07:13 PM
On the other hand, Woj may be doing a lot of rumor-mongering to widen his readership.

I'd say...

http://realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/64655/20100212/suns_now_considered_unlikely_to_deal_stoudemire/



League executives indicate that it's now unlikely that the Suns will trade All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire.

No offers for Stoudemire have impressed Phoenix enough to seriously consider them.

The 76ers, once considered the most likely destination for Stoudemire, are now believed to be an unlikely suitor.

Phoenix is looking for a package that would allow them to be in a better position next season than if they waited and played the opt-out game with the forward.

1984
02-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Call me a horrible person or an overly loyal fan...

But this is the *VERY* first thing I thought of when reading this rumor ;-)

Me too, did anyone else think about keeping Ray from Reggie's record at first glance?

Hicks
02-12-2010, 07:22 PM
Me too, did anyone else think about keeping Ray from Reggie's record at first glance?

Ray can get the record whether he's wearing a Pacers uniform or not. It's not like that's anyone's call but him.

I think, if he's going to do it, which he probably will, it'd be fitting that he did it while playing for the Pacers.

Though, now that I think about it, he probably wouldn't because it's likely he'll move on this summer.

imawhat
02-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Ray can get the record whether he's wearing a Pacers uniform or not. It's not like that's anyone's call but him.

I think, if he's going to do it, which he probably will, it'd be fitting that he did it while playing for the Pacers.

Though, now that I think about it, he probably wouldn't because it's likely he'll move on this summer.


But he'd finish this season under JOB...he could break it this year.

pwee31
02-12-2010, 08:20 PM
Here's Morway's say.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2010/2/12/1307116/pacers-news

posted by me #144

DrFife
02-12-2010, 08:31 PM
Hard to read about Morway's hesitation on Brandon Rush and not wonder if it's because Rush may be included in an imminent deal. :chin:

Sookie
02-12-2010, 08:32 PM
Plz plz plz plz can we have ray..and get rid of Troy and TJ.

Seriously. I wanted to get rid of Troy and TJ for Tracy. (as the salaries fit) Getting rid of Troy and TJ and getting Ray in return. A classy guy who isn't a spoiled brat...

vnzla81
02-12-2010, 08:39 PM
Hard to read about Morway's hesitation on Brandon Rush and not wonder if it's because Rush may be included in an imminent deal. :chin:

I tought the same thing, I hope this does not happen, unless they bring a really really good player in return.

Trophy
02-12-2010, 08:42 PM
Hard to read about Morway's hesitation on Brandon Rush and not wonder if it's because Rush may be included in an imminent deal. :chin:

I don't think he'll be moved now or anytime soon.

count55
02-12-2010, 08:53 PM
More from Windhorst
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/cleveland_cavaliers_intensify.html


Dallas -- At the moment, All-Star Weekend is turning into an elaborate game of Spy vs. Spy.

---

According to multiple league sources, the Cavs have put their interest in forwards Troy Murphy and Antawn Jamison on the back burner for the moment and are getting serious about a higher-profile name, Phoenix Suns All-Star Amare Stoudemire.

Cavs General Manager Danny Ferry and Suns General Manager Steve Kerr, former teammates and friends who have already collaborated on big deals, met this afternoon in Dallas. Suns owner Robert Sarver and Cavs owner Dan Gilbert are also in town and are on the labor relations committee that met.

----

Sources said the Cavs have advanced in discussions with the Pacers as well and could make a deal for Murphy if other deals fall thought. The Cavs still maintain an interest in Jamison and Yahoo! Sports is reporting they are competing with the Boston Celtics to trade for him.

The Wizards, according to multiple reports, appear to be headed for their rebuilding as a deal to send forward Caron Butler to the Dallas Mavericks for guard Josh Howard may be getting close.

Thesterovic
02-12-2010, 08:57 PM
There is no way Amare goes to Cleveland. Cleveland doesn't want to give anything up but EC and Hickson. That's ridiculous.

Remember, couple months back PHX almost got Curry, Belinelli, Biedrins, a first and a second for him. Why would PHX throw him away?

Tom White
02-12-2010, 09:02 PM
More from Windhorst
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/cleveland_cavaliers_intensify.html

I would love to know how many of these reports are legit and how many are simply tools of the teams for playing mind games.

vnzla81
02-12-2010, 09:04 PM
I would love to know how many of these reports are legit and how many are simply tools of the teams for playing mind games.

we would never know...........

count55
02-12-2010, 09:08 PM
I would love to know how many of these reports are legit and how many are simply tools of the teams for playing mind games.

Well, I'm guessing that there are a lot of tools down there.

Tom White
02-12-2010, 09:12 PM
Well, I'm guessing that there are a lot of tools down there.

That's funny! I didn't really intend to call the writers tools. I meant the columns and blogs and tweets were used as tools.

It's still funny, though.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 09:46 PM
I don't see why the Suns would be interested in trading Amare now. With the interest that they are drawing for him now....I really think that they will just wait it out and do a S&T when there will be more Teams that will be in the market for him where they can get more for him. Same goes for Bosh and the Raptors. There will be plenty of incentive for the Suns/Raptors and their respect FA to do a S&T.

CableKC
02-12-2010, 09:50 PM
LOL at both the Cavs and Celtics trying to outbid each other for Jamison. I think that he's a much better option then Murphy.....but I don't get the sense that he's a Player that will put either one of them over the top....he's just a bandaid for both Teams to make up for the loss of MoWill and for whatever the problem that the Celtics have now.

vnzla81
02-12-2010, 09:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4910377



The Plain Dealer is reporting the Cleveland Cavaliers are in negotiations to acquire Suns All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire.

Citing multiple league sources, the report confirms a meeting between Cavs general manager Danny Ferry and Suns GM Steve Kerr Friday afternoon in Dallas.

According to the paper, sources indicated the Cavs and Suns have been discussing a deal involving the five-time All-Star for nearly a month.

The two teams have collaborated on deals before, including a trade that sent Shaquille O'Neal to Cleveland in the summer of 2009.

Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds on the season for the 31-22 Suns

CableKC
02-12-2010, 09:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4910377
I'm really trying to figure out what type of deal that the Cavs can offer that would make the Suns pull the deal on such a move.

Maybe multiple 1st round picks along with Green AND Hickson?

Geez....there just isn't too much that they'd be interested in. The only thing I can think of is if the Cavs and Suns expanded it to somehow include JRich ( something that the Suns are interested in doing ) :shrug: ....which would essentially turn into a huge Salary Dump for the Suns?

cinotimz
02-12-2010, 10:07 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4910377

Translation:

Lets have our beat guy put in news that we are looking at options other than Troy Murphy to try and put a bit of pressure on the Pacers. Especially since it appears the other bargaining chip we had- Jamison-is becoming less and less of a possibility.

Smoothdave1
02-12-2010, 11:31 PM
The Suns are probably looking for the infamous 3 pieces in every desirable NBA trade: Expiring contract, young prospect and pick(s). The Cavs can offer this in the form of:

Z, Hickson, Green & picks. Suns would then probably waive Z and he could return to Cleveland. Suns gain a young propsect in Hickson and Green as well as some picks.

However, I think Phoenix can get a better deal with Miami involving Beasley. Q and filler for Amare. If you're Phoenix, which deal makes more sense? I would argue that Beasley>Hickson

If you do the deal with Miami, you gain cap relief in Q, a good young prospect in Beasley and are able to get more than just cap relief for Amare. Meanwhile, Miami grabs a guy that they can put next to Wade and with JO's huge expiring deal, they can make a run at someone like Johnson, Lebron, etc. Or they could go after a guy like Gay and add someone else like Felton. Imagine a potential Miami lineup of:

Felton, Wade, Gay, Amare and maybe a resigned JO (for much cheaper)?

BKK
02-13-2010, 04:12 AM
Maybe this is too much profiling, but I'm done with Delonte just because of his appearance. Dude looks weird.

call that the... "Chris Kaman effect" :dance:

Tom White
02-13-2010, 09:20 AM
I'm really trying to figure out what type of deal that the Cavs can offer that would make the Suns pull the deal on such a move.

Maybe multiple 1st round picks along with Green AND Hickson?

Geez....there just isn't too much that they'd be interested in. The only thing I can think of is if the Cavs and Suns expanded it to somehow include JRich ( something that the Suns are interested in doing ) :shrug: ....which would essentially turn into a huge Salary Dump for the Suns?

True, and Amare doesn't do anythng to open up the lane, or pull defenders to the outside.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 09:23 AM
call that the... "Chris Kaman effect" :dance:

Or the Chris Anderson effect. That guy is just scary.

SMosley21
02-13-2010, 10:48 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64669/20100213/cleveland_is_debating_amare_jamison/

Sounds like the Cavs are trying to position themselves better for a Murphy trade to me. "Let's put rumors out there that we're going for a bigger name, and then the Pacers will get nervous, cave in and take our crap proposal."

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 10:51 AM
I don't understand why they think we will give them Troy for a 35 year old Ilgauskas, then buy him out so he can go play for them again. I at least want a 2nd rounder.

SMosley21
02-13-2010, 10:53 AM
I hated the Cavs already, then when I heard their trade proposal it made me hate them even more. Trying to bully a lesser team into a completely ridiculous trade, as if we don't have other options. I'd really prefer to deal with Milwaukee or Sacramento if we're going to trade Murphy.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 11:16 AM
I hated the Cavs already, then when I heard their trade proposal it made me hate them even more. Trying to bully a lesser team into a completely ridiculous trade, as if we don't have other options. I'd really prefer to deal with Milwaukee or Sacramento if we're going to trade Murphy.

I agree with this. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of dealing with Cleveland, at all. Sorry guys, but I think if Hickson was not playing with James, he would not appear to be nearly as good as he does now.

My real thought (right now, anyway) is that the Pacers are as likely to do nothing as they are to do anything. I hate to say that, but there is almost too much talk in the media, and we've all seen that before.

idioteque
02-13-2010, 11:22 AM
I don't think Bird will go for Z for Murphy straight up, nor should he.

I understand the team needs to save money. But I don't think they are necessarily willing to do so in a way that is going to make Cleveland even more dominant in our division. Screw LeBron and the Cavaliers, I'd rather keep Murphy until his contract expires than be fleeced in this deal.

SMosley21
02-13-2010, 11:28 AM
I agree with this. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of dealing with Cleveland, at all. Sorry guys, but I think if Hickson was not playing with James, he would not appear to be nearly as good as he does now.

My real thought (right now, anyway) is that the Pacers are as likely to do nothing as they are to do anything. I hate to say that, but there is almost too much talk in the media, and we've all seen that before.


I don't think Bird will go for Z for Murphy straight up, nor should he.

I understand the team needs to save money. But I don't think they are necessarily willing to do so in a way that is going to make Cleveland even more dominant in our division. Screw LeBron and the Cavaliers, I'd rather keep Murphy until his contract expires than be fleeced in this deal.

I agree with both of you here. Murphy has been nothing but the most consistent player on our team for the past 2 seasons, and has earned the buzz that he's getting around the league as a valuable commodity. Yes he does have flaws (defense + lack of an offensive post presence) but he makes up for those with his positives. For us to just give him away for the sake of shedding his salary, receive nothing in return, and HELP a division rival would be the dumbest thing this team has done in a while.

CableKC
02-13-2010, 11:44 AM
I don't look at the Cavs' interest in Amare as any ploy to make the Pacers cave on anything. Is it that surprising that the Cavs ( much less any Team ) are looking to see if they can make a trade for Amare OVER resorting to the "last resort" that is known as Murphy?

I agree with Tom White on this.....Amare doesn't fit this team at all. The Suns figured out that Amare didn't fit with Shaq last season.....add in a ball-dominate Lebron that MUST have the lane open in order to drive to the hoop...and you have a problem.

I think that this is more of a "desperation" move for the Cavs in response to the Celtics deciding to go after Jamison.

BlueNGold
02-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Hickson or no deal.

I'm not exactly a Murphy fan either. He will become a valuable expiring contract shortly and I've waited a long time anyway. I can wait another 6 months to a year.

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 11:57 AM
Another thing is though, BlueNGold, we need to get under the LT. But I'd like to believe that we're in the driver seat in the Troy Murphy deals. So I hope we get some nice pieces like Hickson, Green, a 2nd or a 1st as well as getting rid of Troy (Which is addition by subtraction for us), and getting under the LT.

BornReady
02-13-2010, 11:58 AM
screw the cavs! lets go get ourselves an even better trade! donte greene or jason thompson!

*removed*

Thesterovic
02-13-2010, 12:01 PM
That's really kind of inappropriate.

Lance George
02-13-2010, 01:10 PM
Let's hurry up and get this boring weekend over and get back to the real excitement - trade rumors!

HC
02-13-2010, 01:29 PM
Looks like LBJ is the general manager of the Cavs as well. They should just let him coach also. I really dislike that guy.

dohman
02-13-2010, 01:39 PM
Looks like LBJ is the general manager of the Cavs as well. They should just let him coach also. I really dislike that guy.


Are you serious? LBJ is the reason why cleavland exists. Without LBJ clevland is the same bad team they were for a VERY long time. He transformed the team. Has made the owners BOATLOADS of money. The reason why mike brown went their and the reason why players want to play in clevland.

So yeah I would say he would have a little input on the team and who he thinks he can play with.

Shade
02-13-2010, 01:59 PM
Take this for what you will, but this guy is being backed by the RealGM Suns forum mod as legit, so who knows...

This was posted on the Cavs board:



</cite>I found out Thursday Kerr had a meeting with you all. (I get confused with the time differences sometimes) Anyway, CLE wanted to make a push for a deal involving Amare but the Suns want more and CLE said it would seek out a third team. Philly has been contacted to that effect but nothing is worked out or definite thus far.

For your org Jamison is off the table and Washington said he is not going to be traded. CLE advised that if nothing could be worked as an alternative this weekend they would return Monday to work on negotiations involving bringing Murphy to the Cavs and the negotiating point is Hickson.

SMosley21
02-13-2010, 02:02 PM
Take this for what you will, but this guy is being backed by the RealGM Suns forum mod as legit, so who knows...

This was posted on the Cavs board:

What the guy had to say seemed to make a lot of sense. Sounds legit to me.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
Take this for what you will, but this guy is being backed by the RealGM Suns forum mod as legit, so who knows...

This was posted on the Cavs board:

He's going to "fansterbate"? Hopefully not in public.

Shade
02-13-2010, 02:07 PM
He's going to "fansterbate"? Hopefully not in public.

Haha, I deleted that part. Didn't seem appropriate. :-p

PaceBalls
02-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Are you serious? LBJ is the reason why cleavland exists. Without LBJ clevland is the same bad team they were for a VERY long time. He transformed the team. Has made the owners BOATLOADS of money.

So yeah I would say he would have a little input on the team and who he thinks he can play with.

LBJ may have escalated the Vietnam war, but he was also a big part of the civil rights movement. I did not know he was from Cleveland though, I thought he was from Texas... :confused:
He definately should not play with south east asian countries.

count55
02-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Take this for what you will, but this guy is being backed by the RealGM Suns forum mod as legit, so who knows...

This was posted on the Cavs board:

I helped moderate the Phoenix board during the playoffs a couple years back. If rsavaj is vouching, then, IMO, the guy should be taken seriously.

Tom White
02-13-2010, 03:25 PM
Haha, I deleted that part. Didn't seem appropriate. :-p

Maybe not, but it was funny.

McKeyFan
02-13-2010, 04:36 PM
Maybe not, but it was funny.

And there's the rub.

HC
02-13-2010, 04:41 PM
Are you serious? LBJ is the reason why cleavland exists. Without LBJ clevland is the same bad team they were for a VERY long time. He transformed the team. Has made the owners BOATLOADS of money. The reason why mike brown went their and the reason why players want to play in clevland.

So yeah I would say he would have a little input on the team and who he thinks he can play with.

He has done a whole lot more than give a little input. It isn't all on him though, it is just as much the franchises fault for allowing him to act like the child that he is. He is a good player that has made Cleveland a good team, but his sense of entitlement is disgusting.

wintermute
02-13-2010, 04:46 PM
so, we're waiting on cleveland then? what happened to milwaukee and sacramento, were they just, um, negotiation tactics?

Hicks
02-13-2010, 04:49 PM
so, we're waiting on cleveland then? what happened to milwaukee and sacramento, were they just, um, negotiation tactics?

I don't think anyone has said we're just waiting on Clevleand or we don't do a trade. I'm sure if things haven't died with other teams, those talks will continue simultaneously, then when they have what they feel are all of their final offers on the table, they'll make their decision.

Justin Tyme
02-13-2010, 07:20 PM
LBJ may have escalated the Vietnam war,



MAY HAVE, MAY HAVE, MAY HAVE. You said MAY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those that like to read about history should read the little red book "Quotes From Chairman LBJ."

Justin Tyme
02-13-2010, 07:28 PM
I like the trade to Saco


Kings

Thomas... expiring
Greene
Sergio R.


Pacers

Murphy
Head.... Expiring
Diener... Expiring

cinotimz
02-13-2010, 07:32 PM
I get the feeling the Kings arent going to give up Green in that scenario...or possibly any scenario.

Lance George
02-13-2010, 10:36 PM
Everything I've read says Ilyasova is a hustler, and looking at some of his game footage on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ersan+ilyasova) it shows. He'd definitely be a fan favorite.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mpyGrq7t3EU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mpyGrq7t3EU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Besides his nice production and hustle, he's also younger (22 years, 9 months) than anyone currently on our team.

Let's get it done.

bulldog
02-13-2010, 10:57 PM
I'm skeptical that Ilyasova is actually on the table. He may or may not pan out, but he's definitely a great prospect. I'd love to get Ilyasova + cap space, but I don't think its gonna happen.

Pacers
02-14-2010, 06:58 AM
Several sources said the Cavs have included the Houston Rockets and Detroit Pistons in their conversations, possibly in an attempt to set up three-team deals. The Cavs’ major targets are still believed to be forwards Antawn Jamison and Troy Murphy. But they also have had conversations about shooting guards and the talks with the Pistons could involve Richard Hamilton, who has been made available in recent weeks.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/shaq_vs_to_return_for_second_s.html

count55
02-14-2010, 08:19 AM
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/shaq_vs_to_return_for_second_s.html

This report is three days old.

Pacers
02-14-2010, 08:37 AM
You're welcome.

d_c
02-14-2010, 12:39 PM
I get the feeling the Kings arent going to give up Green in that scenario...or possibly any scenario.

The reason the Kings called about Murphy is because they're looking for someone to take Udrih. Geoff Petrie:"Oh, so I hear your shopping Troy Murphy? Don't you need a PG? We'll give you Beno Udrih."

It's not like they're looking to give up one of their young prospects for Murphy because they're looking to make their playoff run.

Lance George
02-14-2010, 12:55 PM
The reason the Kings called about Murphy is because they're looking for someone to take Udrih. Geoff Petrie:"Oh, so I hear your shopping Troy Murphy? Don't you need a PG? We'll give you Beno Udrih."

It's not like they're looking to give up one of their young prospects for Murphy because they're looking to make their playoff run.

Is this based on any actual evidence or is it just your anti-Murphy agenda talking?

d_c
02-14-2010, 12:58 PM
Is this based on any actual evidence or is it just your anti-Murphy agenda talking?

This is based on Geoff Petrie being a still decent GM and him understanding his team's situation.

FWIW, my "anti-Murphy" agenda has never said the Cavs shouldn't go after Murphy.

pwee31
02-14-2010, 07:14 PM
Not sure if posted or not. Not really anything new, just thought I would add it during the slow weekend

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/cavaliers_dominating_trade_rum.html


DALLAS -- The Cavaliers' representation at All-Star Weekend is a party of one, LeBron James. The Cavs representation in trade rumors at All-Star Weekend, though, is enormous.

Here's an update of where the team is, according to executives, agents and insiders:

• According to a team official, even though the Cavs are heavily involved in talks with several teams and are working hard to finalize trade packages, they have not yet decided to do anything. One of the biggest internal debates the Cavs are having, and that includes James, is whether they should pull the trigger on any deal.

Team owner Dan Gilbert's checkbook is open, as the team will set a franchise record for revenue this season. But Gilbert is also said to be happy with the way the team is playing and isn't pushing for any change.

• Right now, multiple sources have said, the Cavs are still working hard to assemble three-team trades. They have been in direct talks with the Phoenix Suns about Amare Stoudemire, the Indiana Pacers about Troy Murphy and the Washington Wizards about Antawn Jamison.

But they also are involving the Houston Rockets, Utah Jazz and Philadelphia 76ers in trying to set things up. In recent weeks the Cavs have also had expanded talks with the Chicago Bulls about making them a partner. If that seems like a wide net, it is supposed to be.

There's often such expansive talks at this time as teams attempt to satisfy numerous needs with bigger deals. Usually, though, if anything gets done it is just between two teams. General Manager Danny Ferry did pull off a three-team deal at the deadline two years ago, however.

• Sources have indicated the Cavs have gotten "pretty far down the tracks" in talking to the Suns about Stoudemire. It has even gotten to the point that the sides have discussed small details like payment schedules and salary reimbursement options. At this time of year, because many contracts are pro-rated differently, there are such things to work out in a trade.

Also, a source said that James has signed off on trading for Stoudemire. The two spent time talking during the All-Star practice session Saturday morning. When asked about the Cavs rumors, Stoudemire responded with a "no comment."

On Friday when asked which players Stoudemire would pick for a dream lineup he listed: Shaquille O'Neal, James, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Two, of course, play for the Cavs now.

count55
02-14-2010, 07:30 PM
recent tweets from Windhorst
@PDCavsinsider


# Cavs, I'm told, have four trade options on table and are in process of ranking them. Plus the option to stand pat. 1 minute ago from web


Also, based on my conversations today, it doesn't sound like Cavs are "close" yet with Suns. Neither side is sure what will happen. 2 minutes ago from web

Major reason why the Cavs are a leading contender for Stoudemire: They can get Suns below tax, which would be worth around $10 million.

CableKC
02-15-2010, 01:59 AM
Geez the Cavs are literally leaving every stone unturned when it comes to making a trade.

pacergod2
02-15-2010, 07:51 AM
This is from RealGM this morning:


Murphy Is Cleveland's Plan B

Feb 15, 2010 7:39 AM EST

If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.

I just peed my pants. It is kind of warm in my pants right now.

vnzla81
02-15-2010, 08:21 AM
This is from RealGM this morning:


Murphy Is Cleveland's Plan B

Feb 15, 2010 7:39 AM EST

If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.

I just peed my pants. It is kind of warm in my pants right now.

This is good news, I hope phoenix does not trade Amare :pray:

cinotimz
02-15-2010, 08:23 AM
This is from RealGM this morning:


Murphy Is Cleveland's Plan B

Feb 15, 2010 7:39 AM EST

If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.

I just peed my pants. It is kind of warm in my pants right now.

Is that kind of how Bird peed his pants last year? Right before Houston traded Alston to Orlando?