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View Full Version : not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells



vnzla81
02-10-2010, 06:18 AM
If the pacers turn this deal down because they want a PF in return, I'll be really mad:mad:

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html

My man Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that the Cavaliers and Pacers have made "some progress" in talks about forward Troy Murphy.

Cleveland isn't the only team that has shown some interest in Murphy. Sacramento and Milwaukee are two of "several" teams that have called about Murphy.

A sticking point for the Pacers in dealing with talks involving Murphy is that they prefer a forward back in return because of how thin they are at that position.

The Cavaliers, according to Windhorst, have been "balking" at trade scenarios involving forward J.J. Hickson. The Pacers are very much interested in Hickson.

The Pacers could possibly soften their stance on wanting a forward back in a deal involving Murphy if rookie Tyler Hansbrough starts showing signs that he's getting close to being able to return to the lineup somewhere around the trade deadline.

One player the Pacers have been getting a lot of calls about is center Roy Hibbert.
The teams that have inquired about Hibbert have been getting the cold shoulder because the Pacers consider him one of their young core pieces.

Kamiyohk
02-10-2010, 07:45 AM
We need to get JJ Hickson in the murphy deal, he remind me about jermaine o'neal 's deal in the past. We will be a better team when we have a real power forward on this team.

mildlysane
02-10-2010, 08:34 AM
As inept as the office seems sometimes, thank God that they did not trade Roy after the first offer.....*"Well, he couldn't shoot the three the way we like to shoot it..."*

graphic-er
02-10-2010, 08:44 AM
If Hickson is really as coveted as they make him out to be, then he probably won't resign with Indiana after next season anyway. There will be too many other teams looking for a young athletic PF.

tde3000
02-10-2010, 09:01 AM
i want casspi :P

graphic-er
02-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Yes Sacto has alot of good young players. I'd like them to go after Kevin Martin as well.

Skaut_Ech
02-10-2010, 09:32 AM
Actually. The Kings may be the best partner for us. They have a bruiser PF who I really like in Jon Brockman. He's an old school, knock the opponent on his butt, beat the other team up for rebounds kinda guy. He's someone I think this team could really use. With all the threes we like to jack up, he'd be a great screener/boards guy.

Donte Greene might also be great. He's really charismatic and might go a long way in giving this bland group of players some personality. In terms of on court, he's been playing a smidge of PG, along with SG, SF AND PF. He's 6'11, long and I think he's showed a slow, steady learning curve. He would really fit with this style offense, but would have to focus more on rebounding, if we played him at PF.

I think May even has some game in him but he's caught up in a numbers game.

Matter of fact, salary-wise a GREAT move for us would be Hilton Armstrong, Kenny Thomas (both expiring contracts) and Brockman for Troy.

(And we don't need ANOTHER wing player in Casspi)

owl
02-10-2010, 09:36 AM
They should just take what Cleveland wants to give us. They should take Ilgauskus and
and we give them Murphy and our first. Then we will have cap space.































Please note this is sarcasm.

wintermute
02-10-2010, 09:37 AM
i wonder what the potential deals are with sacto and milwaukee.

the kings could offer the expiring contract of kenny thomas and one of their young players. casspi would be nice :)

i'm not so sure about the bucks but they have a number of expiring contracts - ridnour, kurt thomas, warrick, alexander. beyond that, i'm not sure what they could offer that we'd be interested in. maybe ersan ilyasova? he's having a nice rookie season.

owl
02-10-2010, 09:41 AM
i wonder what the potential deals are with sacto and milwaukee.

the kings could offer the expiring contract of kenny thomas and one of their young players. casspi would be nice :)

i'm not so sure about the bucks but they have a number of expiring contracts - ridnour, kurt thomas, warrick, alexander. beyond that, i'm not sure what they could offer that we'd be interested in. maybe ersan ilyasova? he's having a nice rookie season.

Start with either teams first this year.

PR07
02-10-2010, 10:30 AM
If Hickson is really as coveted as they make him out to be, then he probably won't resign with Indiana after next season anyway. There will be too many other teams looking for a young athletic PF.

Hickson wouldn't hit free agency for like another three years. He's got one more year after this one, then a team option, then a qualifying offer year.

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 10:30 AM
I like the Sac-Town possibility. Donte Green does look good! Check out his last 5 games:
Date Opp Min FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
02/01 @ DEN 24:28 3-5 1-2 0-0 0 5 5 0 3 0 1 0 7
02/03 SAS 37:20 5-9 2-5 0-0 3 0 3 1 3 1 1 1 12
02/05 PHX 35:09 11-20 1-3 8-10 3 4 7 0 1 0 1 2 31
02/07 @ TOR 27:25 4-10 3-3 2-5 2 3 5 0 1 0 1 0 13
02/09 @ NYK 39:48 9-12 4-5 2-4 1 7 8 3 5 1 2 0 24

At 6'11", 226 & only his 2nd year, I think this is a someone we should look real hard at. He is your long, athletic 4 you need against the R.Lewis/Bosh-type's. Not saying he is defensively ready for them, but he has the size & quickness it would take.

I don't see anything in Milwalkee I would trade Murphy for. They don't have any young talent that they would give up, so they are just a salery dump. At this point though, I might move Dunleavy there (though I don't want to) for a 1/2 season look at J.Alexander & maybe L.Ridnour &/or Warrick, but only if we moved a PG (likely Watson as Ford would be too good to hope for) somewhere else. I would think that next to Murphy (& excluding Roy), E.Watson & maybe Head would have the most interest from a contender.

count55
02-10-2010, 10:35 AM
Actually. The Kings may be the best partner for us. They have a bruiser PF who I really like in Jon Brockman. He's an old school, knock the opponent on his butt, beat the other team up for rebounds kinda guy. He's someone I think this team could really use. With all the threes we like to jack up, he'd be a great screener/boards guy.

Donte Greene might also be great. He's really charismatic and might go a long way in giving this bland group of players some personality. In terms of on court, he's been playing a smidge of PG, along with SG, SF AND PF. He's 6'11, long and I think he's showed a slow, steady learning curve. He would really fit with this style offense, but would have to focus more on rebounding, if we played him at PF.

I think May even has some game in him but he's caught up in a numbers game.

Matter of fact, salary-wise a GREAT move for us would be Hilton Armstrong, Kenny Thomas (both expiring contracts) and Brockman for Troy.

(And we don't need ANOTHER wing player in Casspi)

Well, Casspi would immediately become our second best wing behind Danny, and the days of this team being overloaded at that position are long since past.

It won't matter, though, because Sacramento isn't going to trade him away.

Hicks
02-10-2010, 10:43 AM
I hate this "we don't want to be thin at the 4 because we're in the playoffs hunt" crap. I really, really, really do.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Some people on these boards focus way too much on expiring contracts, and don't even bother to look at the actual players. Warrick or Ilyasova would be a good pickup for Indiana at the PF. Personally, I have to agreed with Bird on this one. If we can't get a PF in return, then all bets are off. It seems that Murphy is generating a lot of interest from other teams, so that puts Indiana in the driver's seat. I can't remember the last time that Indiana was EVER in the driver's seat when it came to trades.

Infinite MAN_force
02-10-2010, 10:49 AM
If we are thin at forward we can go sign someone out of the D leauge and boom, we aren't thin at forward anymore. I am starting to wonder if Bird has any concept of what rebuilding is?

owl
02-10-2010, 10:49 AM
I hope those are mainly just bargaining words at this point.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 10:53 AM
We would be thin at the PF spot if we traded away Murphy for peanuts. Hansbrough is still questionable and Foster is out for the season. Some of you want to get rid of Murphy sssooooooooooo bad, that you're willing to cut off your nose despite your face. If we get back a solid, young PF (Solo and McRoberts are alright), then we can draft a PG (and get rid of Watson).

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 10:59 AM
It's kinda funny, we are soooo thin @ PF, yet we have (& are paying) 2 PF's in McBob & S.Jones who can not get off the bench. Look, we know they are not great, but seriously.......

Speed
02-10-2010, 11:10 AM
The point is - a trade has nothing to do with right now, so even if you had ZERO power forwards and you can make a good deal for the future, you do it. That struck me as the most short-sighted thing I've ever heard. Hopefully something was lost in translaton there.

So the school of thought is, well we don't want to not have enough Power Forwards to help us finish 30-52 this year, so we really can't make a move for the future. WTF?

The idea should be, um ya, I don't care what the last 30 games look like, let's make any and every move that will help down the line, regardless.

I'm shocked at how stupid this quote sounds.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 11:12 AM
Actually. The Kings may be the best partner for us. They have a bruiser PF who I really like in Jon Brockman. He's an old school, knock the opponent on his butt, beat the other team up for rebounds kinda guy. He's someone I think this team could really use. With all the threes we like to jack up, he'd be a great screener/boards guy.

Donte Greene might also be great. He's really charismatic and might go a long way in giving this bland group of players some personality. In terms of on court, he's been playing a smidge of PG, along with SG, SF AND PF. He's 6'11, long and I think he's showed a slow, steady learning curve. He would really fit with this style offense, but would have to focus more on rebounding, if we played him at PF.

I think May even has some game in him but he's caught up in a numbers game.

Matter of fact, salary-wise a GREAT move for us would be Hilton Armstrong, Kenny Thomas (both expiring contracts) and Brockman for Troy.

(And we don't need ANOTHER wing player in Casspi)


I talked about Donte Greene earlier in the season. I'd love to see him in a Pacers uni. He's been playing well as of late. He played PF last night. I'd love to have him, moreso than Brockman who is a Leon Powe & Craig Smith height wise PF. He'd be a shorter re-run of Tyler in many ways.

wintermute
02-10-2010, 11:14 AM
Start with either teams first this year.

sacramento is half a game below us in the standings right now. milwaukee is higher but not entirely safe from the lottery. neither team is giving up their first rounder for murphy, unless it's highly protected.


Some people on these boards focus way too much on expiring contracts, and don't even bother to look at the actual players. Warrick or Ilyasova would be a good pickup for Indiana at the PF.

warrick would be all right, in a band-aid earl watson sort of way. we sure could use a bit more athleticism.

i've suggested ilyasova myself, but do the pacers really want a player whose upside is murphy? but then, i guess i wouldn't mind a poor man's murphy who's paid a fraction of what the really murphy is getting. as long as obie doesn't play him 30+ min a game.


If we are thin at forward we can go sign someone out of the D leauge and boom, we aren't thin at forward anymore. I am starting to wonder if Bird has any concept of what rebuilding is?

that would be a great idea, if we could find d-league big men who are better than mcbob or solo. and then we'd have to see whether obie would play them.


We would be thin at the PF spot if we traded away Murphy for peanuts. Hansbrough is still questionable and Foster is out for the season. Some of you want to get rid of Murphy sssooooooooooo bad, that you're willing to cut off your nose despite your face. If we get back a solid, young PF (Solo and McRoberts are alright), then we can draft a PG (and get rid of Watson).

no good pg prospects next year other than wall, unfortunately. watson will be gone regardless - we can't afford him next year. unless he strikes out in free agency and is willing to play for the minimum.

graphic-er
02-10-2010, 11:14 AM
Oh you will see Danny at the PF spot way before Solo or Mcbob get any decent look. Small ball!

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:16 AM
The idea should be, um ya, I don't care what the last 30 games look like, let's make any and every move that will help down the line, regardless.

QFT...That's my mindset. Merely dumping Murphy's, Dunleavy, and Ford's contracts is NOT enough. We need players back in return.

Shade
02-10-2010, 11:16 AM
I hate this "we don't want to be thin at the 4 because we're in the playoffs hunt" crap. I really, really, really do.

I think it's just posturing because we really want Hickson.

I would love to have a first as well, but I'd be content with just Z and Hickson for Murphy.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Some people on these boards focus way too much on expiring contracts, and don't even bother to look at the actual players. Warrick or Ilyasova would be a good pickup for Indiana at the PF.


Both those players would be great additions to the Pacers as would Ridnour. I just can't fathom Milwaukee interested in Murphy. How does he fit in with Skiles wanting "D" played?

graphic-er
02-10-2010, 11:23 AM
I'd say getting some young talent for Murphy is imperative at this point. Next year Dun and TJ and Jeff 's expiring's alone are not going to land you an allstar via trade a, you gonna have to give up some young talent as well. So if you get a Hickson or Casspi, or Brockman, then you gonna be in better position to pull trades next year for some real talent to go along with Granger.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:23 AM
sacramento is half a game below us in the standings right now. milwaukee is higher but not entirely safe from the lottery. neither team is giving up their first rounder for murphy, unless it's highly protected.



warrick would be all right, in a band-aid earl watson sort of way. we sure could use a bit more athleticism.

i've suggested ilyasova myself, but do the pacers really want a player whose upside is murphy? but then, i guess i wouldn't mind a poor man's murphy who's paid a fraction of what the really murphy is getting. as long as obie doesn't play him 30+ min a game.



that would be a great idea, if we could find d-league big men who are better than mcbob or solo. and then we'd have to see whether obie would play them.



no good pg prospects next year other than wall, unfortunately. watson will be gone regardless - we can't afford him next year. unless he strikes out in free agency and is willing to play for the minimum.

We must be seeing two different Warrick. Warrick would be an athletic upgrade over Solo and McRoberts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44604oiH5bw

The season is still young, I'm pretty sure that there are other PG prospects outside of John Wall. Good catch on the Ilyasova 3PT shooting. I didn't know that he was shooting that high of a percentage. With that in mind, I would eliminate him from consideration. Heaven forbid if we give JOB another stretch-4.

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 11:25 AM
Some of you want to get rid of Murphy sssooooooooooo bad, that you're willing to cut off your nose despite your face.

Amen to the above!


Bird has said he isn't trading unless it's for someone that the Pacers can go forward with. (Paraphrased)

Some of you guy would be such rotten gm's that not only would your owner want to fire you they would want to convene a firing squad!

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Both those players would be great additions to the Pacers as would Ridnour. I just can't fathom Milwaukee interested in Murphy. How does he fit in with Skiles wanting "D" played?

That's a good question. The Bucks would have been the last team that I thought would want Murphy. Especially considering they already have someone who's a younger version of Murphy. Possibly a 3-team trade?

Hicks
02-10-2010, 11:34 AM
We would be thin at the PF spot if we traded away Murphy for peanuts. Hansbrough is still questionable and Foster is out for the season. Some of you want to get rid of Murphy sssooooooooooo bad, that you're willing to cut off your nose despite your face. If we get back a solid, young PF (Solo and McRoberts are alright), then we can draft a PG (and get rid of Watson).

Look, it's not that I'm anti-acquiring a young PF. By all means, if you can get one, go ahead. My issue is this: I get the impression they'd say no to what might be considered a "good" deal for Murphy just because there's no PF coming back. That would be stupid IMO. That would be the Pacers cutting of THEIR nose to spite THEIR face IMO.

Hicks
02-10-2010, 11:38 AM
And hey, Pacers, here's a super-secret tactic to getting a young, talented power forward: Stopping worrying so much about trying to make the playoffs and/or winning more than 30 games, and "magically" you'll have a top pick in a draft FILLED WITH YOUNG TALENTED POWER FORWARDS.

And hey, maybe, just maybe, you can get something ELSE that's valuable (a young player who is not a PF, or a 1st round pick) by trading Murphy right now.

Just a thought.

*edit* If that line of thinking would end up with me in front of a firing squad, then the Pacers are dumber than I thought.

Hicks
02-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Triple posting to rant and use capital letters? I feel like I'm becoming Seth. ;)

To make this even more geeky (by a thousand), I'm having flashes of Luke Skywalker just after he beat Vader in ROTJ, looks at his own robotic hand, and realizes the path he's on before it's too late.

:zip:

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Look, it's not that I'm anti-acquiring a young PF. By all means, if you can get one, go ahead. My issue is this: I get the impression they'd say no to what might be considered a "good" deal for Murphy just because there's no PF coming back. That would be stupid IMO. That would be the Pacers cutting of THEIR nose to spite THEIR face IMO.

The best long-term deal is acquiring a player back in return, because that would be one less player to worry about. Giving away a player for free for salary relief when it's tough to acquire top-notch F/A for our small market is being stupid. I would be just as quick to keep Murphy my d*mn self, if I couldn't get back a PF (or even a good backup PG).

Anthem
02-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Bird has said he isn't trading unless it's for someone that the Pacers can go forward with. (Paraphrased)
And how'd that work out for us with Tinsley? Ford?

CableKC
02-10-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm glad that we are finally getting some insight into the "many calls" that the Pacers FO has gotten regarding Murphy, but before anyone gets excited......I would really like some clarification on any recent interest in Murphy and whether it is legit on the same level as the Cavs interest in him.

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html


Quote:
My man Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that the Cavaliers and Pacers have made "some progress" in talks about forward Troy Murphy.

Cleveland isn't the only team that has shown some interest in Murphy. Sacramento and Milwaukee are two of "several" teams that have called about Murphy.
To me, Wells post is somewhat ambiguous in terms of detail. Did Sacto and Milwaukee just make cursory calls to guage interest? Were these calls made recently and there is still some lingering interest there?

For example, it wouldn't have surprised me if Sacto did call a month ago since they were in search of a Big Man. They checked to see if they can pry Murphy away for ( probably ) some package surrounding Kenny Thomas ( as an Expiring contract )...found out it was too expensive and decided to go with the New Orleans route of acquiring Hilton Armstrong.

I know that Wells probably wouldn't be able to provide much details.....but this just tells me that other Teams either ARE interested in Murphy or WERE interested in Murphy ....but for all we know, this could have happened some time ago. What's worst is that Sacto and Milwaukee hung up ( and hasn't called back ) when Murphy asked for WAY TOO MUCH in return.

I'm really hoping that there is still some "seeds of interest" in Murphy that Bird and Co. can cultivate into a trade during All Star Weekend......but I'm too pessimistic about this season to hope that something realistic could happen.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 11:46 AM
Dear God, please let us get Kevin Martin... pleeeaaasseee!!!1
I'd even throw Hibbert in there with Murph for him.

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 11:49 AM
And how'd that work out for us with Tinsley? Ford?

< 20 min. & a screw-job by Houston for Tinsley,
Ford is TBD

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Some of you guy would be such rotten gm's that not only would your owner want to fire you they would want to convene a firing squad!

They may need to use that firing squad to ward off the rioting fans charging with pitchforks.

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Dear God, please let us get Kevin Martin... pleeeaaasseee!!!1
I'd even throw Hibbert in there with Murph for him.
We need an "No-Thanks" button.

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Look, it's not that I'm anti-acquiring a young PF. By all means, if you can get one, go ahead. My issue is this: I get the impression they'd say no to what might be considered a "good" deal for Murphy just because there's no PF coming back. That would be stupid IMO. That would be the Pacers cutting of THEIR nose to spite THEIR face IMO.

A good deal would be in the eyes of the beholder. Beyond that sometimes you pass on good deals because it's not good enough.

For example, we have 4 point guards so we wouldn't want to do just a good deal for a point ithout getting rid of one. It also has to make sense and go along with what we are doing. It would have to be a no brainer for us to deal for a point.

I can see why they would want a pf for Murphy, but I'm sure they would do a deal if it was the 'right' good deal.

Lance George
02-10-2010, 11:53 AM
I can understand Milwaukee's interest. They're currently a game out of the playoffs and you would have to think Troy would not only push them over the top, but could move them up a few spots (they're two games out of the 6th spot, 4.5 out of 5th). On the other hand, I really don't get why Sacramento would be interested. They have a good, young front court and their playoff hopes died a long time ago.

So who all is rumored to be interested in Murphy now? Cleveland, Milwaukee, Sacramento... San Antonio? Denver? Either way, if any of these rumors are based in reality then it becomes clear Murphy is a far more attractive player than a lot of people here want to believe. No he's not an all-star, but he's not only very productive, he also brings a unique element to the table with his size and shooting.

I think we'll end up getting a nice deal for him, much better than some realize.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:53 AM
Dear God, please let us get Kevin Martin... pleeeaaasseee!!!1
I'd even throw Hibbert in there with Murph for him.

So we can REALLY become a perimeter oriented team? Sorry, no thanks. I like Kevin Martin, but not enough to give up Hibbert.

Hicks
02-10-2010, 11:53 AM
The best long-term deal is acquiring a player back in return, because that would be one less player to worry about. Giving away a player for free for salary relief when it's tough to acquire top-notch F/A for our small market is being stupid.

Well it's a good thing that's not my argument, then, isn't it? You understand that's not what I'm advocating, right?


I would be just as quick to keep Murphy my d*mn self, if I couldn't get back a PF (or even a good backup PG).

I'm not hot to do a pure-salary dump deal, but I wouldn't be hung up on whether or not it's a PF I get back. That would be nice, sure, but not the only thing I would consider taking back (PG, SG, C, pick, whichever).

Also, while most of us prefer not to do a pure salary dump, keep in mind if we don't trade one of these contracts (Murphy, Ford, Foster, Dunleavy), we will likely be over the luxury tax, and that means not only paying the tax, but losing out on the income you get if you're below the tax.

I highly think the Pacers will try hard to get out from under that tax. It might take a Murphy dump to do that.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 11:54 AM
We need an "No-Thanks" button.

We need a "Homer" button

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 11:54 AM
And hey, Pacers, here's a super-secret tactic to getting a young, talented power forward: Stopping worrying so much about trying to make the playoffs and/or winning more than 30 games, and "magically" you'll have a top pick in a draft FILLED WITH YOUNG TALENTED POWER FORWARDS.

And hey, maybe, just maybe, you can get something ELSE that's valuable (a young player who is not a PF, or a 1st round pick) by trading Murphy right now.

Just a thought.

*edit* If that line of thinking would end up with me in front of a firing squad, then the Pacers are dumber than I thought.

Actually you're one of the guys I think could cut it as a gm.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 11:55 AM
So we can REALLY become a perimeter oriented team? Sorry, no thanks. I like Kevin Martin, but not enough to give up Hibbert.

Who cares if we are perimeter team the rest of the year.

This is about landing an all star calibre player alongside Danny for the future. We will find some bigs in the offseason.

Roy has a nice hook shot and can block some shots, but let's be realistic here. He is not Dwight Howard or the 2nd coming of Kareem. He is not in the same teir as Kevin Martin.

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 11:57 AM
And how'd that work out for us with Tinsley? Ford?

Bird said that sometime within the past two months. I looked at for the quote but couldn't find it.

CableKC
02-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Can someone with a Twitter account Tweet Wells and have him clarify whether the interest in Murphy is recent and whether there is still some lingering interest in him from Sacto and Milwaukee?

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Roy and Danny are our two generally untouchables.

For reasons of talent and also popularity with the fan base.

They could trade AJ but would just barely get away with it.

wintermute
02-10-2010, 11:58 AM
We must be seeing two different Warrick. Warrick would be an athletic upgrade over Solo and McRoberts.


er, what? i do agree that warrick is very athletic. in my post i said his athleticism would help us in the frontcourt.

beyond that he's not very good though. hence i don't see him as a long term piece, i.e. just a stop gap solution.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:59 AM
Who cares if we are perimeter team the rest of the year.

This is about landing an all star calibre player alongside Danny for the future. We will find some bigs in the offseason.

Roy has a nice hook shot and can block some shots, but let's be realistic here. He is not Dwight Howard or the 2nd coming of Kareem. He is not in the same teir as Kevin Martin.

You missed the point. Kevin Martin is not worth giving up Hibbert.

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 12:00 PM
We need a "Homer" button
If a "Homer button" is a "Not trading a 7'3 w/ big upside for a non-defense 6'7 185 lb SG - button", then I agree.


I don't mind KMart, but not sure I want to take the cap space away on him just yet. He is a talent upgrade (offensively), but you devalue Rush & his all-around game. I'd like to wait till n/y on a SG to "replace" Rush.

wintermute
02-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Can someone with a Twitter account Tweet Wells and have him clarify whether the interest in Murphy is recent and whether there is still some lingering interest in him from Sacto and Milwaukee?

the news didn't come from mike wells. he's basically repeating what the cleveland writer had in his article.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/jj_hicksons_role_in_deadline_t.html

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 12:04 PM
the news didn't come from mike wells. he's basically repeating what the cleveland writer had in his article.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/jj_hicksons_role_in_deadline_t.html

That makes the leak more credible, imo.

This is the same writer who said Troy had problems with the coaching staff. Still scratching my head on that report.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 12:05 PM
er, what? i do agree that warrick is very athletic. in my post i said his athleticism would help us in the frontcourt.

beyond that he's not very good though. hence i don't see him as a long term piece, i.e. just a stop gap solution.

I misunderstood your one comment when you stated that we sure could use the athletism. I thought you meant he wasn't athletic enough.

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 12:06 PM
I highly think the Pacers will try hard to get out from under that tax. It might take a Murphy dump to do that.

They still have a year to do that and they know how much interest their players are getting. From the rumors we hear, they are getting to much interest to just do a salary dump at this time.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 12:08 PM
If a "Homer button" is a "Not trading a 7'3 w/ big upside for a non-defense 6'7 185 lb SG - button", then I agree.


I don't mind KMart, but not sure I want to take the cap space away on him just yet. He is a talent upgrade (offensively), but you devalue Rush & his all-around game. I'd like to wait till n/y on a SG to "replace" Rush.

Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 12:10 PM
Who cares if we are perimeter team the rest of the year.

This is about landing an all star calibre player alongside Danny for the future. We will find some bigs in the offseason.

Roy has a nice hook shot and can block some shots, but let's be realistic here. He is not Dwight Howard or the 2nd coming of Kareem. He is not in the same teir as Kevin Martin.

You just don't find bigs like Hibbert! I think if he maxes out his potential he will be an all star himself.

I think that because if he maxes out he will be as good as Smits, and Smits was an all star.

Gamble1
02-10-2010, 12:23 PM
Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?
Thats like saying how much upside does Rik Smits have. IMO, Shooting guards are less valueable than a inside presence. Don't get me wrong Kmart is better than him but if you factor in cap space and what the Pacers already have its a wash of a trade. Of course if you we were to draft a center then I would consider it.

CableKC
02-10-2010, 12:30 PM
Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?
Right now, it's hard to guage what Hibbert's upside is when we have a Coach that does not maximize his skillset and often uses him incorrectly.

<< rant-on >>

For heaven's sakes......he has his best low-post scorer regularly taking jumpshots near the top of the key. I mean...WTF?!?!?! I'm glad that Hibbert is capable of hitting those shots....but I don't know why we have to have a 7'2" Center wandering that far away from the basket that often in the first place. But I guess I'm okay with Hibbert taking shots that far away from the basket since we have a Bruiser PF that isn't allergic to Offensive rebounds. :rolleyes:

<< rant-off >>

Ask this question again in another 1.5 seasons ( or less ) when we have a new Coach that can properly use a 7'2" Center.

PacerGuy
02-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?

IMO a fair amount.
I like the Smits analogy. Bigs take longer to develope. Are you saying that w/ experience that Roy can not significantly improve his interior D? IMO even if he maintained his current offensive production (not likely, he WILL improve), he has plenty of defensive "upside" from where he is today.

Speed
02-10-2010, 12:34 PM
I think Roy has tons he'll improve on, but mainly doing the good things more often and the bonehead things less. I think we've seen improvement this season, almost week to week.

So at the very least, I think we'll see Roy get more consistent. I don't see that he's even close to his ceiling consistency wise or overall skill level or either end, imho.

Sparhawk
02-10-2010, 12:36 PM
At least we won't have much longer to wait till we find out if a deal goes down or not. I still don't see Cleveland giving up Hickson. They want to keep LeBron, and if he is mentoring Hickson, I can't see them giving him up and taking a chance at angering the King.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 12:36 PM
IMO a fair amount.
I like the Smits analogy. Bigs take longer to develope. Are you saying that w/ experience that Roy can not significantly improve his interior D? IMO even if he maintained his current offensive production (not likely, he WILL improve), he has plenty of defensive "upside" from where he is today.


I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 12:37 PM
Roy's upside is enormous.

It takes centers a long time to acclimate, anyway. When a coach comes here and runs a traditional, inside-out offense, and Roy has good players to pass to, the offense could be scary good.

His defense will only get better and better. That is where he will improve the most.

Bird is scaring me lately, but I do think he is smart enough to keep Roy around.

Sparhawk
02-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Hibbert has come a long way in just his second year. This kid knows how to play basketball and actually can learn to grow as a player. That's why the Pacers just need to get an athletic defensive minded PF to help Hibbert out against faster centers.

I hated Hibbert and Rush when we drafted them, but I'm growing to like both players a lot.

Can we just trade Hansbrough instead of Hibbert?

CableKC
02-10-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?
Since we are so thin at the Frontcourt, if I were to choose between the 2...I'd give up Murphy+2010 1st round pick ( protected up to the top 5 for the 2010-2011 season ) for Kevin Martin....but not Hibbert.

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 12:42 PM
I forgot Hansbrough was on the team.

Gamble1
02-10-2010, 12:43 PM
I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?
I would choose Roy at this point but if we did land Kmart our pick would be less valuable in the end.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 12:45 PM
Since we are so thin at the Frontcourt, if I were to choose between the 2...I'd give up Murphy+2010 1st round pick ( protected up to the top 5 for the 2010-2011 season ) for Kevin Martin....but not Hibbert.

Actually, I think I would too, unless it was top 3 pick or whatever. Even then.. you know what you got with Roy, any guy you draft, even John Wall... it is always uncertain on how well he will be in the NBA.

pianoman
02-10-2010, 12:46 PM
To me, only 2 players are untouchable: Danny and Roy. The jury's still out on Tyler, AJ, and Rush. Saying that, I think bird is looking for a much larger deal than we think. Possibly combining one of Tyler, Rush, and Aj with Troy to get a rising star.

Cleveland can offer Z and Hickson. I think the pacers need to forget about the draft pick. We do not need a late first round draft pick. If we can get Hickson and Z for Murph, LB should take it and run.

Sactown has several assets that we could use on this team. If we could get one of Evans, Sergio, Martin, or Garcia, without giving up Hibbert or Granger, we'd be in good shape going into the offseason.

...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?

Doddage
02-10-2010, 12:51 PM
...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?
No. I think the only discussions Milwaukee would have for Jennings is if they were to get a superstar (in the realm of a CP3, Deron, Rose) in return.

Lance George
02-10-2010, 12:52 PM
Martin missed 21 games two seasons ago, 31 games last season, and has already missed 32 games this season. His scoring efficiency (his bread & butter) is also way down, as his FG% (.390), 3% (.365) and FT% (.825) are all the lowest since his rookie season.

Call me a homer, but I'd be reluctant to give up Roy in any Martin deal. I don't think it matters either way as I'm pretty confident we could work something out that didn't involve Hibbert. Send them Troy and a top-seven protected first and we could probably have Martin on the team by the end of today.

CableKC
02-10-2010, 12:58 PM
Actually, I think I would too, unless it was top 3 pick or whatever. Even then.. you know what you got with Roy, any guy you draft, even John Wall... it is always uncertain on how well he will be in the NBA.
I'm okay with acquiring a Long-term contract AS LONG AS the Player fits what we want to do after the start of the 2011-2012 season. Giving up a Draft Pick to acquire a Player like Kevin Martin IMHO would require giving up something. I wouldn't do it if we got back a lower-caliber player from the Kings ( for example, getting back Andres Nocioni ). But since I think that we will need to acquire ( through Trade or FA ) or Draft a Starting quality SG ( I consider BRush and Inferno solid Backups at the GF position but not really Starting quality SGs on a Playoff level Team ) by the start of the 2011-2012 season....I'd be okay with having Kevin Martin be the Robin to Granger's Batman.

I agree with you on Kevin Martin, I just don't want to give up on Hibbert until we see how he does with a real Coach that actually utilizes him properly.

Skaut_Ech
02-10-2010, 01:01 PM
Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?

:bs:

I'm sorry. I find this thinking a bit ridiculous. Look at Andrew Bynum. Despite his injuries, he was slower and no real arsenal down low very early in his career. As time went on, Kareem started mentoring him. I think I remember him going to Pete Newell's Big Man camp. He got a better hook shot. (Thanks Kareem), he got faster, bigger and stronger. Now teams would drool to have him as their starting center. Part of that is growing into himself, part of that is coaching and part of that is hard work. Remember the summer a few years ago where Bynum put on some major pounds of cut muscle?

Chris Kaman was no world beater when he came into the league. He seemed big and a little clumsy. His numbers weren't that great and despite his high draft status, people were unsure about him for years. But Kaman worked at his low post game and now he's a leading center and an impact player. Players CAN get faster through footwork and strength training. Offensive arsenals can be developed.

You can see the guys who have the smarts and work ethic to improve and those who are just big knuckleheads. (Hi, Javale McGee! Lookin' at ya, Darko!)

Take a look around the league and see how many legit centers there are. Go ahead. I can wait.

Not many, are there? When you get a potentially good one, especially one who is intelligent and a student of the game, you hold onto him.

I like Kevin Martin, but there are a TON of Reggie Miller clone gunners around the league. Not a lot of smart, 7 footers who can shoot. If Kevin isn't scoring, then he isn't impacting the game. He's not going to rebound much or get you assists. Good centers traditionally can get you stats and impact across the board.

If you look at some of the top centers in the league, and consider how bad some of them were when they came into the league, I think you can see just how much upside Roy has.

Martin's nice, but at the end of the day, he's still just a volume shooter and that's it.

BornReady
02-10-2010, 01:02 PM
i want either jj hickson or donte greene :D

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 01:10 PM
We need an "No-Thanks" button.




In this case, ABSOLUTELY. Why is it people are constantly gravitating towards players with injury problems for the Pacers?? Isn't Dunleavy and FOSTER enough at the present time for you?? Who's next Michael Redd?

I Love P
02-10-2010, 01:12 PM
The trade will be Kenny Thomas and Hilton Armstrong for Murphy. 2 expring contracts for murphy. Bird will then re-sign Armstrong to a multi year deal.

:censored:

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 01:21 PM
Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?


Hibbert must have more upside coming or other GM's wouldn't be wanting to trade for him! Other GM's wanting Hibbert says something if you want to listen.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
Sactown has several assets that we could use on this team. If we could get one of Evans, Sergio, Martin, or Garcia, without giving up Hibbert or Granger, we'd be in good shape going into the offseason.

...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?



No need to trade for Sergio R. as he is a FA at the end of the year. I'm on record and will 2nd it again by saying I would like to see Sergio in a Pacers uni. He's a pass 1st PG with a 2 1/2 to 1 ratio of assists to TO's who can shoot the ball.

No way the Bucks trade Jennings.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 01:35 PM
i want either jj hickson or donte greene :D


I like JJ, BUT I WANT DONTE GREENE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BornReady
02-10-2010, 01:42 PM
I like JJ, BUT I WANT DONTE GREENE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeaaa looks like we're on the same pg :dance:

90'sNBARocked
02-10-2010, 01:52 PM
And we don't need ANOTHER wing player in Casspi

Amen,

We also , in my opinion, dont need a player similar to Tyler (Brockman)

Pacers13Colts12
02-10-2010, 01:54 PM
Guys like Kevin Martin are a dime a dozen. We have our own decent wing player who puts up big numbers for a horrible team in Danny Granger. Keep Roy!

90'sNBARocked
02-10-2010, 01:55 PM
I hate this "we don't want to be thin at the 4 because we're in the playoffs hunt" crap. I really, really, really do.

But were not mathmatically elimanated (neither are the Nets)


Jim Obrien can lead us !!!

sarcasm intended

can they please, please stop selling us fans the "trying to make the playoffs" speech

Lance George
02-10-2010, 01:56 PM
Donte Greene is basically the headache-free version of Shawne Williams. If given the choice, I'd probably take him over J.J. Hickson.

Pacersfan46
02-10-2010, 02:07 PM
They still have a year to do that and they know how much interest their players are getting. From the rumors we hear, they are getting to much interest to just do a salary dump at this time.

How do they have a year to get under the salary tax number for next season? Realistically they have until the trade deadline.

If you wait until the offseason, the only people you can trade with to get under the tax are teams that have cap space. Those teams will be looking at adding free agents most likely. Anyone you deal with will know you are desperate to get under that tax, and will be looking to fleece you. Horrible idea to wait.

-- Steve --

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 02:33 PM
How do they have a year to get under the salary tax number for next season? Realistically they have until the trade deadline.

If you wait until the offseason, the only people you can trade with to get under the tax are teams that have cap space. Those teams will be looking at adding free agents most likely. Anyone you deal with will know you are desperate to get under that tax, and will be looking to fleece you. Horrible idea to wait.

-- Steve --

The salary tax we want to get under is not this years. (Payable around July 1) Right now we are over what the tax projects out to be the following July 1, that's what we need to get under.

So we have this years trade deadline (this month), this summer, and next years trade deadline to get under that projected tax.

I'm for getting under that tax as quick as we can but I see no point in making a salary dump at this months trade deadline. That's what some posters want to do. (Mainly because they just want to get rid of Murphy.)

Pacersfan46
02-10-2010, 02:44 PM
The salary tax we want to get under is not this years. (Payable around July 1) Right now we are over what the tax projects out to be the following July 1, that's what we need to get under.

So we have this years trade deadline (this month), this summer, and next years trade deadline to get under that projected tax.

I'm for getting under that tax as quick as we can but I see no point in making a salary dump at this months trade deadline. That's what some posters want to do. (Mainly because they just want to get rid of Murphy.)

I understand when we're needing to get under the tax, but in the NBA once this season is over, any trades will involve matching salaries unless the other team is under the salary cap. You can't trade for an already expired contract if you wait until this summer, and at that point any contract that expires AFTER next season (which is the only kind that will exist at that point) is a contract that expires too late.

So as I said, the only teams you can deal with are teams with cap space, and with all the talent in this years free agent class, nobody will be willing.

I'm very confused on how you think we can wait and still get this done.

-- Steve --

MyFavMartin
02-10-2010, 03:00 PM
DI'd see about Noc for Ford and their first.

CableKC
02-10-2010, 03:24 PM
DI'd see about Noc for Ford and their first.
I didn't.....but even if I did...why would the Kings want to do that? They already have an expensive Backup PG with Beno.

Also...all this Kings trade talk is nice...but totally unrealistic. No way they'd give up Kevin Martin for whatever Murphy is.

Kemo
02-10-2010, 03:59 PM
We would be thin at the PF spot if we traded away Murphy for peanuts. Hansbrough is still questionable and Foster is out for the season. Some of you want to get rid of Murphy sssooooooooooo bad, that you're willing to cut off your nose despite your face. If we get back a solid, young PF (Solo and McRoberts are alright), then we can draft a PG (and get rid of Watson).



I agree


but the part I bolded... should read... "cut off your nose to spite your face"



yours truly Graham Arnatsi


hahah:-p

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 04:00 PM
I understand when we're needing to get under the tax, but in the NBA once this season is over, any trades will involve matching salaries unless the other team is under the salary cap. You can't trade for an already expired contract if you wait until this summer, and at that point any contract that expires AFTER next season (which is the only kind that will exist at that point) is a contract that expires too late.

So as I said, the only teams you can deal with are teams with cap space, and with all the talent in this years free agent class, nobody will be willing.

I'm very confused on how you think we can wait and still get this done.

-- Steve --

Good point! I'm doing a flip flop.

And by next year our big 4 contracts will be expiring themselves, so we would have to trade expirings for cheaper expirings to gain ground on the tax.

So we do have to trade someone at this trade deadline to garenttee getting under the tax!

Very good!

Of course if they have a lockout it might not matter. Hmmm . . .

MyFavMartin
02-10-2010, 04:23 PM
I didn't.....but even if I did...why would the Kings want to do that? They already have an expensive Backup PG with Beno.



Ford is better than Beno and Noc has a bad contract that is a year longer than Ford's. We get a player that is tough and can play either the 3 or 4 and unload a player that we don't really want for an expiring contract next year and a trial run with a PG that they may be interested in resigning. Plus, it opens more PT for their wings (Evans, Martin, Garcia, Casspi, Greene).

I think Ford could split time at the point with Evans, who could also pick up minutes at the 2.

I didn't realize that Sac's pick was that high this year. I was thinking if they had a pick in the late teens/early 20s, I'd love to have an extra pick for a few guys mocked there. So either a protected pick or a pick to be aquired later.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 04:27 PM
I agree


but the part I bolded... should read... "cut off your nose to spite your face"



yours truly Graham Arnatsi


hahah:-p


LOL, you're right. I couldn't remember if it was "spite" or "despite", and I was too lazy to google it.

PaceBalls
02-10-2010, 05:06 PM
:bs:

I'm sorry. I find this thinking a bit ridiculous. Look at Andrew Bynum. Despite his injuries, he was slower and no real arsenal down low very early in his career. As time went on, Kareem started mentoring him. I think I remember him going to Pete Newell's Big Man camp. He got a better hook shot. (Thanks Kareem), he got faster, bigger and stronger. Now teams would drool to have him as their starting center. Part of that is growing into himself, part of that is coaching and part of that is hard work. Remember the summer a few years ago where Bynum put on some major pounds of cut muscle?

Chris Kaman was no world beater when he came into the league. He seemed big and a little clumsy. His numbers weren't that great and despite his high draft status, people were unsure about him for years. But Kaman worked at his low post game and now he's a leading center and an impact player. Players CAN get faster through footwork and strength training. Offensive arsenals can be developed.

You can see the guys who have the smarts and work ethic to improve and those who are just big knuckleheads. (Hi, Javale McGee! Lookin' at ya, Darko!)

Take a look around the league and see how many legit centers there are. Go ahead. I can wait.

Not many, are there? When you get a potentially good one, especially one who is intelligent and a student of the game, you hold onto him.

I like Kevin Martin, but there are a TON of Reggie Miller clone gunners around the league. Not a lot of smart, 7 footers who can shoot. If Kevin isn't scoring, then he isn't impacting the game. He's not going to rebound much or get you assists. Good centers traditionally can get you stats and impact across the board.

If you look at some of the top centers in the league, and consider how bad some of them were when they came into the league, I think you can see just how much upside Roy has.

Martin's nice, but at the end of the day, he's still just a volume shooter and that's it.

Hey, been meaning to respond to this, but I was at work.
There are so many wrong things in this post... I am suprised you got so many thanks... but whatever. Obviously not everyone thinks like I do.

First off, comparing to Hibbert to Bynum is crazy. Bynum is much more athletic, much quicker, and younger, as in when he was drafted he was 18, still growing into his body, also having Kareem be his college education in basketall helped quite a bit. Who is our big man coach again? I don't think that is going to happen with Hibbert... he definately isn't giong to get faster. He has shown a good post game that he worked on, which I really like. But let's not get carried away and say he has the potential Bynum had.

Chris Kaman plays about the same level of defense Roy plays (as in bad) but outrebounds him, I like Roy's post game better though, as I think he is a better passer. Like Roy, Kaman sure is a game changer eh? Leading his team to a subpar record...

Legit centers are overrated in today's NBA. As much as I enjoy a good slog ball game, the NBA today is fast paced. Roy can be a big part of the Pacers future, but you have to put the right people around him to cover up his deficiencies on defense, which is a big reason we fail so bad with Murph Hibbert and Dunleavy on the court together.

The NBA is full of Reggie Miller clones? Seriously?? I can't believe you went there.. If that is so... Can we get one of them?

I've said this earlier, I do like Hibbert, I think we can be ok with him at center. I don't know if we are going to be contenders with him, but we can do ok with the right coach and players. I think you guys are just massively overrating this guy. He is good, but he isn't an all star. If he is such a badass, as you guys are saying, he should be leading us to championships. He can't even make the sophmore/rookie game (though I think he should have).

I think it has just been so long since we had a real center here and with the season so awful there is a tendancy for wish thinking and to cling to whatever glimmer of hope there might be on the roster. But a good dose of objectivity is what I prefer.

At any rate, I think I'd rather keep Roy and trade off the pick (protected top 7 or something) instead as was suggested earlier in the thread. Hell, this is all BS speculation anyway. Maybe they would be happy with just Murph.

Thesterovic
02-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Can they shoot the three?

I like Donte, Brockman, Hickson, Alexander, Green, and some 2nd round picks. I'd also give Troy to team x for nothing in return.

pwee31
02-10-2010, 05:41 PM
As some have mentioned, the draft will be stacked with young PFs, and we should be in perfect position to get a good one. Not to mention we have a young PF on the team (though not playing) in Hansbrough. If the deal breaker is not getting back a PF b/c we're thin up front for the remainder of what has been a terrible season, then we need a new GM

And I've personally liked a lot of what Bird has done with little wiggle room. Of course you would like to fill a need, but it's like the draft, you go with the best player available that makes your team better.

If the Cavs don't want to move Hickson OR the late first, then you can't do the deal. Everyone knows the Cavs want to get Z back, and you can't just trade Murphy for nothing but a little cap space.

I personally like a lot of the Bucks options. I like there expiring players b/c not only are they expiring, but you can also use the 2nd half of the season to see how they fit in. Ridnour I've liked for sometime at the PG, Warrick has played as an undersized PF and bring athleticism, and you even have a young who knows type of player in Joe Alexander that you can test out. Illyasova and Meeks can be thrown into the equation as well

The Kings would depend on who they're willing to part with. Regardless of injuries, Kevin Martin for Troy Murphy would be a pipe dream, but not happening, we'd probably be looking at Kenny Thomas and his expiring deal and then seeing what the Kings are willing to spare. Jason Thompson would be nice, and fits Bird wanting a young PF. I really like Casspi, that kid has some fire, and he was actually apart of my all-rookie team prediction before the season started, I think he's going to be a player. Donte Greene seems to be on a lot of lists around here, haven't seen him much to be honest nor Brockman, both of them seem like they would be sweetners to a deal that include Thompson or Casspi

All in all I'm trying to stay grounded during this process. You can tell be Bird's reaction and body language that he's not happy with the team, but I fear he's looking to make a homerun move now to clear the bases, and that's not something other teams are willing to offer for the players we're looking to unload.

pwee31
02-10-2010, 05:56 PM
Here's a little more on the Kings interest

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/


Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Kings have inquired about the Indiana forward Troy Murphy, and that wouldn't be surprising.

I've been told that's not the case, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing.

The Kings obviously want a big, and Murphy - who is a very productive one with a good inside-out game- is one of the few so widely known to be available. If this were to happen, look for it to be the aforementioned three-team deal in which Kevin Martin goes to Dallas. And consider this as well: Murphy is represented by agent Dan Fegan, who also represents Martin and most of the Mavericks team.

Now this throws me off a little bit. Even if the Kings weren't interested.. if there was interest why would it be a 3 team deal with Kevin Martin going to the Mavs, if Murphy is going to the Kings? Would Bird not want Kevin Martin, or would this be a lot bigger deal with multiple players involved?

Thesterovic
02-10-2010, 06:05 PM
Since there's so many PF's in this years draft, can't we get a half-year rental of a sad PF, forcing JOB to play Josh? So perhaps us fans can actually see what we got?

vnzla81
02-10-2010, 06:09 PM
Here's a little more on the Kings interest

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/



Now this throws me off a little bit. Even if the Kings weren't interested.. if there was interest why would it be a 3 team deal with Kevin Martin going to the Mavs, if Murphy is going to the Kings? Would Bird not want Kevin Martin, or would this be a lot bigger deal with multiple players involved?

Dallas is been trying to get Martin all year long, Im not sure what are the pieces Dallas could send here, as long as they are expiring, young players or draft picks Im fine and no I don't want KMart.

Lance George
02-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Dallas has a few young players, the most interesting of which is probably Rodrigue Beaubois (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3963), a 21 year old French point guard who's having a fairly impressive rookie season. He's not yet a "true" point guard, but he could be in time. He also has the size (6'2" with a huge wingspan) to be a very good defender. He also has some very impressive shooting numbers -- .493 from the field and .412 from downtown. This is surprising because his outside shot was suppose to be a weakness coming into the NBA.

Here's his draft night video with some footage from France:

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NapTonius Monk
02-10-2010, 07:00 PM
To me, only 2 players are untouchable: Danny and Roy. The jury's still out on Tyler, AJ, and Rush. Saying that, I think bird is looking for a much larger deal than we think. Possibly combining one of Tyler, Rush, and Aj with Troy to get a rising star.

Cleveland can offer Z and Hickson. I think the pacers need to forget about the draft pick. We do not need a late first round draft pick. If we can get Hickson and Z for Murph, LB should take it and run.

Sactown has several assets that we could use on this team. If we could get one of Evans, Sergio, Martin, or Garcia, without giving up Hibbert or Granger, we'd be in good shape going into the offseason.

...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?

Evans and Jennings? I think Milwaukee and Sacto would hang up before you reached the end of the 1st sentence. I would like to make a play for K-Martin, provided Roy stays off the table.

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Dallas has a few young players, the most interesting of which is probably Rodrigue Beaubois (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3963), a 21 year old French point guard who's having a fairly impressive rookie season. He's not yet a "true" point guard, but he could be in time. He also has the size (6'2" with a huge wingspan) to be a very good defender. He also has some very impressive shooting numbers -- .493 from the field and .412 from downtown. This is surprising because his outside shot was suppose to be a weakness coming into the NBA.

Here's his draft night video with some footage from France:

<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ADEALnj3fxk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
Mark Cuban already has him off limits.

NapTonius Monk
02-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Mark Cuban already has him off limits.

And with good cause. He's a player.

Lance George
02-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Mark Cuban already has him off limits.
You have to give to get. If slime bucket Cuban wont offer anything of interest to teams, he can't expect anything of interest back.


"Thereís maybe one or two guys in the league that I would trade him for," Cuban said. "Thatís it. Other than that, heís pretty much untouchable."
Sounds reasonable to me.

Another first round flameout for the Mavs.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 08:50 PM
Hey, been meaning to respond to this, but I was at work.
There are so many wrong things in this post... I am suprised you got so many thanks... but whatever. Obviously not everyone thinks like I do.

First off, comparing to Hibbert to Bynum is crazy. Bynum is much more athletic, much quicker, and younger, as in when he was drafted he was 18, still growing into his body, also having Kareem be his college education in basketall helped quite a bit. Who is our big man coach again? I don't think that is going to happen with Hibbert... he definately isn't giong to get faster. He has shown a good post game that he worked on, which I really like. But let's not get carried away and say he has the potential Bynum had.

Chris Kaman plays about the same level of defense Roy plays (as in bad) but outrebounds him, I like Roy's post game better though, as I think he is a better passer. Like Roy, Kaman sure is a game changer eh? Leading his team to a subpar record...

Legit centers are overrated in today's NBA. As much as I enjoy a good slog ball game, the NBA today is fast paced. Roy can be a big part of the Pacers future, but you have to put the right people around him to cover up his deficiencies on defense, which is a big reason we fail so bad with Murph Hibbert and Dunleavy on the court together.

The NBA is full of Reggie Miller clones? Seriously?? I can't believe you went there.. If that is so... Can we get one of them?

I've said this earlier, I do like Hibbert, I think we can be ok with him at center. I don't know if we are going to be contenders with him, but we can do ok with the right coach and players. I think you guys are just massively overrating this guy. He is good, but he isn't an all star. If he is such a badass, as you guys are saying, he should be leading us to championships. He can't even make the sophmore/rookie game (though I think he should have).

I think it has just been so long since we had a real center here and with the season so awful there is a tendancy for wish thinking and to cling to whatever glimmer of hope there might be on the roster. But a good dose of objectivity is what I prefer.

At any rate, I think I'd rather keep Roy and trade off the pick (protected top 7 or something) instead as was suggested earlier in the thread. Hell, this is all BS speculation anyway. Maybe they would be happy with just Murph.

Roy is going to be a bad*ss under a new coach. I'm old school. I prefer traditional centers instead of the current "small-ball" centers.

BlueNGold
02-10-2010, 10:08 PM
Roy is going to be a bad*ss under a new coach. I'm old school. I prefer traditional centers instead of the current "small-ball" centers.

I too believe the small-ball centers are getting a look mainly because the Shaq years are over. When Shaq was a dominant C, teams HAD to have some stiffs out there. Now, it's somewhat optional.

Still you have guys like Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Chris Kaman, Brook Lopez, Kendrick Perkins...some who play PF but who are basically centers. I think they make huge positive impacts on their teams and there is not much small about those guys. Also, I don't consider any of those guys gazelles...only a little more experienced than Hibbert.

Duncan and Gasol will almost certainly have better careers, but I think Hibbert has a shot at contending with the others.

I guess my point is...the days of the big C are not over. Size without great athleticism continues to be rewarded in the NBA. Perhaps all of those guys are more athletic than Roy, but honestly, not much. For the most part, they have experience or a higher skill level with Duncan and Gasol. In fact, I think Hibbert could own Perkins and competes just fine with Lopez. Not the greatest centers in the league...but Perkins plays on a contender.

HC
02-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Roy is a throwback center, you have to love that. He comes from a great college program, and his demeanor is infectious. Roy has the work ethic to really polish his game. He is definitely an impact player that we should keep around. Hopefully that is what TPTB decide to do.

pianoman
02-10-2010, 11:45 PM
Evans and Jennings? I think Milwaukee and Sacto would hang up before you reached the end of the 1st sentence. I would like to make a play for K-Martin, provided Roy stays off the table.

Okay, I should rephrase that, if we had the #1 pick in the draft, would you be willing to trade John Wall for Jennings or Evans? Or would you keep Wall with the belief that he is better than both of them, and quite possible Rose?

Will Galen
02-10-2010, 11:55 PM
Okay, I should rephrase that, if we had the #1 pick in the draft, would you be willing to trade John Wall for Jennings or Evans? Or would you keep Wall with the belief that he is better than both of them, and quite possible Rose?

No brainer, keep Wall in both cases! I would rather have Wall, Turner, maybe even Favors and Cousins, over Jennings.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2010, 10:45 AM
No brainer, keep Wall in both cases! I would rather have Wall, Turner, maybe even Favors and Cousins, over Jennings.


I agree with you on your comment about Jennings, BUT I'll take Tyreke Evans over Wall any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Evans is ROY hands down.

graphic-er
02-11-2010, 11:28 AM
I agree with you on your comment about Jennings, BUT I'll take Tyreke Evans over Wall any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Evans is ROY hands down.

I wouldn't want him on my team, he has been labeled a ball hog in Sacto.

owl
02-11-2010, 11:47 AM
Pacers are at number 6 in the draft currently and 1 game out of the 4 spot. With next 11 games against very difficult competition they will most likely be at 4 after that. That is the best draft position they could get this year as the other 3 teams above them are very bad.
With the 4 spot they could pick any of the power forwards out there. Favors, Cousins, Patterson, Davis and Monroe.

pwee31
02-11-2010, 12:00 PM
Here's a little more on the Kings interest

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/



Now this throws me off a little bit. Even if the Kings weren't interested.. if there was interest why would it be a 3 team deal with Kevin Martin going to the Mavs, if Murphy is going to the Kings? Would Bird not want Kevin Martin, or would this be a lot bigger deal with multiple players involved?

I've also heard the Celtics could be a 3rd team. Couldn't find a link anywhere though, heard it on a TV broadcast, and I believe it was a Celtics commentator, that mentioned Murphy to the Kings, Tj Ford and Kevin Martin to the Celtics, and Ray Allen to Pacers. Not sure what other pieces would be involved or how true the talks are, just thought I would pass it along

Shade
02-11-2010, 12:07 PM
Murphy and Ford for Ray Allen? :signit:

Not sure why the Kings would trade KMart for Murphy, though. :confused:

Speed
02-11-2010, 12:16 PM
Murphy and Ford for Ray Allen? :signit:



Well, I want to convince myself this helps the Celtics....Nope can't do it.

pianoman
02-11-2010, 12:32 PM
If I were Bird, I think I'd go ahead and trade murph for Z and Donte and their 2011 1st rd pick. Who knows, LeBron might sign with NY making Cleveland a pretty mediocre team

vnzla81
02-11-2010, 12:40 PM
I would love for that trade to Happen, the Pacers move TJ Ford and Muphy? for 20mil expiring hell yeah