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View Full Version : AJ Price back to 3rd string - This is Unacceptable



Hicks
02-09-2010, 08:06 PM
I want to highlight a post made in tonight's game thread regarding O'Brien's comments before the game against the Bulls:


Jimmy just said on tv that he was going back with Watson and Ford as PG's. He said the reason why Price was played the last month was so they could see what they had in Price. Now, they know.

I've said this b4 and I'll say it again "O'Brien reminds me of a used car salesman who will say whatever to get people to believe him."

I'm sorry, but to me this is just 100% unacceptable. I'm almost at a loss for more words than that.

This season is toast. AJ should at least keep his backup PG role to keep getting experience.

But no, let's pretend we're in the playoff hunt. Absolutely laughable.

It's like O'Brien is TRYING to turn more fans off. He's turned me off. I can at least say that.

If I weren't going to the games to sit with a friend, I would just stop going completely for the rest of the year. There's no point.

This team is bad, losing, uninteresting, unexciting, and with not a lot of hope to go around. Benching a surprisingly good 2nd round pick in a year like this is just absolutely wrong IMO. Does nothing but lower moral for me as a fan.

God...

MillerTime
02-09-2010, 08:11 PM
I agree. JOB is just too unpredictable. Price has been playing well and hes finally showing management what he has in him

I wouldnt be surprised is Diener starts next game

McKeyFan
02-09-2010, 08:11 PM
The gentleman from New Castle has a second.

Erik
02-09-2010, 08:14 PM
If I weren't going to the games to sit with a friend, I would just stop going completely for the rest of the year.

I was thinking about STH's recently....I guess I shouldn't feel bad, at least I can not watch and not feel like I've lost money...sorry dudes.

Thesterovic
02-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Wow, what the hell Jim? You want to know what you got with Price, you got our best pg. So lets sit him. Makes logical sense.

BlueNGold
02-09-2010, 08:26 PM
One last shot at dealing Ford before the deadline? Pump and dump?

Hmmmmm.

If it's not that, it's something much worse...and would be proof positive that JOb has no intention of developing players capable of making this a better team. It is also proof positive that contracts play a huge role in who gets on the floor.

Here is what happens. TJ plays ok against a terrible team (Detroit)...then he scores 20 points with three assists against his former team. Apparently there is some idiotic fool that believes it's a good game...enough to change the starting lineup...when your PG scores 20 points...but ignores the fact he has 4 turnovers and only 3 assists...as the team scores 81 in a loss against a relatively weak team.

Dr. Awesome
02-09-2010, 08:27 PM
I can't watch another year of a Jim O'Brien coached team...

Justin Tyme
02-09-2010, 08:31 PM
I can't watch another year of a Jim O'Brien coached team...



You are preach'n to the choir! AMEN!

DrFife
02-09-2010, 08:31 PM
Perhaps it's because Mr. Ford is scheduled to be showcased for an imminent trade ... ??? :sunshine::sunshine:

McKeyFan
02-09-2010, 08:34 PM
I wonder if we could package TJ, Diener and Stanko for Lebron?

Thesterovic
02-09-2010, 09:10 PM
I don't think that AJ would completely **** this one up like Earl just did. Nice choice Jim.

Freddie fan
02-09-2010, 09:12 PM
A.J. Price screwed up, plain and simple. Once given some playing time, he proved too quickly that as a rookie he's already a pretty good player at one of the Pacers' weaker positions. That means it's time for him to sit out the remaining games. The guys who have already proved that they're below average starters in this league need to play because A.J. Price has now shown his potential to be better than that.

After all, he has started TWO games at this point and three times has had five or more assists with a high of seven. The Pacers clearly know just what they have in A.J. Price after this audition. This franchise, after all, has never had a point guard who looked quite good for a stretch of games and then turned out to be less than what was hoped.

PaceBalls
02-09-2010, 09:23 PM
The list of unacceptables is quite long at this point. The torture never stops.

BornReady
02-09-2010, 09:24 PM
I HATE YOU JIM

StankoLover216
02-09-2010, 09:27 PM
I wonder if we could package TJ, Diener and Stanko for Lebron?

NEVER BE SMART MOVE TRADING STANKO! GET REBOUNDING, MAKE MUCH BASKET, IS LOVE WITH FANS...STANKO SOON COMING INDIANA OF AMERICA! MANY WINNING FOLLOW HIM!

Trophy
02-09-2010, 09:28 PM
We need to start chanting "FIRE O'BRIEN!".

Much like the Knick fans did for Isiah a few years back. I was there to witness it when we crushed them.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EqDBc9SKtak&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EqDBc9SKtak&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

EDIT: I didn't film this. This was against the Warriors.

Sookie
02-09-2010, 09:31 PM
Earl Watson had 5 turnovers tonight, guess how many times in his audition AJ had five turnovers. None.

TJ Ford has had back to back games with more turnovers than assists. AJ has four games total with that stat. TJ Ford has had 8 turnovers total in the past three games..AJ Price has had 7 turnovers in the past 7 games.

AJ has outplayed the two veterans. He's the better option plain and simple.

And, he's the only one of the three that we expect to be here in two years. He's the only point guard on the team the Pacers actually want to keep.

But by all means, lets not play him.

The only positive is that the Watson and Ford duo will certainly help our position in the lottery.

The sad thing is, there is no logical explanation. If it's just for one game, to be cautious..okay. But it definitely doesn't sound like it.
There is absolutely no reason to be playing the Watson/Ford duo.

Price is better than both and more clutch then both, or at least he's shown that he is..who really knows. We have to see him play more. Price is young and needs to be developed.

I can see a reason to try the Price/TJ backcourt. If TJ can play well in a backup role than we'd have a solid rotation next year. And there wouldn't be a need to sign someone else, so I can see where that attempt is.

But there's absolutely no reason to bench Price. And honestly, Jim O'brien's excuse is going to be hilarious. In fact, I hope someone slams him on it.

edit: actually I take that back. There are two logical reasons.

1. We are tanking. Playing Price was expected to develope him and lose more games..and it turns out we're actually a little less than .500 with him getting consistent minutes. Oops, better switch fast.

2. We are trading Watson. Perhaps Cleveland wants Watson, as they are short on PGs at the moment, in the Troy Murphy deal, in order to give us a few extra draft picks. And we were showing Watson off. *great job Watson, if that's the case* and deciding to play Ford this game was a combination of being safe with A.J. and trying to get the team used to T.J. again.

McKeyFan
02-09-2010, 09:38 PM
A.J. Price screwed up, plain and simple. Once given some playing time, he proved too quickly that as a rookie he's already a pretty good player at one of the Pacers' weaker positions. That means it's time for him to sit out the remaining games. The guys who have already proved that they're below average starters in this league need to play because A.J. Price has now shown his potential to be better than that.

After all, he has started TWO games at this point and three times has had five or more assists with a high of seven. The Pacers clearly know just what they have in A.J. Price after this audition. This franchise, after all, has never had a point guard who looked quite good for a stretch of games and then turned out to be less than what was hoped.

Post more, Freddie.

gummy
02-09-2010, 09:42 PM
I keep thinking I've hit bottom and can no longer be moved to extreme annoyance by anything anyone on this team does.

I was wrong.

Justin Tyme
02-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Last question posed to Jimmy on post game was about AJ not playing. Jimmy's answer was he wanted to see the vet PG's play!

McKeyFan
02-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Let's just hope they are being showcased for a trade. At least that makes a little sense.

graphic-er
02-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Its pretty obvious this was a trade pump. Just too little too late in my opinion.

Thesterovic
02-09-2010, 09:45 PM
NEVER BE SMART MOVE TRADING STANKO! GET REBOUNDING, MAKE MUCH BASKET, IS LOVE WITH FANS...STANKO SOON COMING INDIANA OF AMERICA! MANY WINNING FOLLOW HIM!

:50cent:

ksuttonjr76
02-09-2010, 09:57 PM
He's seriously didn't say that, did he? Where's D_C_ to convince us that JOB is a good coach due to his time in Philly and Boston, and Indiana has little to no talent?

DGPR
02-09-2010, 10:01 PM
I want to highlight a post made in tonight's game thread regarding O'Brien's comments before the game against the Bulls:



I'm sorry, but to me this is just 100% unacceptable. I'm almost at a loss for more words than that.

This season is toast. AJ should at least keep his backup PG role to keep getting experience.

But no, let's pretend we're in the playoff hunt. Absolutely laughable.

It's like O'Brien is TRYING to turn more fans off. He's turned me off. I can at least say that.

If I weren't going to the games to sit with a friend, I would just stop going completely for the rest of the year. There's no point.

This team is bad, losing, uninteresting, unexciting, and with not a lot of hope to go around. Benching a surprisingly good 2nd round pick in a year like this is just absolutely wrong IMO. Does nothing but lower moral for me as a fan.

God...


But ESPN gave us an 0.2% chance of making the Playoffs..... or something like that. So they're saying there's a chance!

vnzla81
02-09-2010, 10:02 PM
it was the last game before the trade deadline, they are showcasing him for sure, maybe another team they talked to wants to see him playing and know that he is healthy, Larry Brown likes this guy, other teams like him too, if the pacers are willing to get a player back with a similar salary plus pick or young player I think they could trade him.

McKeyFan
02-09-2010, 10:04 PM
But ESPN gave us an 0.2% chance of making the Playoffs..... or something like that. So they're saying there's a chance!

Somebody post the Dumb and Dumber clip.

Sookie
02-09-2010, 10:05 PM
But ESPN gave us an 0.2% chance of making the Playoffs..... or something like that. So they're saying there's a chance!

Except the team has a much MUCH better record with A.J. playing.

If we don't see Price soon, it's most likely more to make sure we lose.

cdash
02-09-2010, 10:08 PM
I really think we should back off the ledge here. Obie yanks players in and out of the rotation like it's nobody's business. AJ will be back soon enough.

gummy
02-09-2010, 10:12 PM
I really think we should back off the ledge here. Obie yanks players in and out of the rotation like it's nobody's business. AJ will be back soon enough.

Yeah...it's true that what Obie does today doesn't necessarily tell us much about what he will do tomorrow. It's like being blindfolded and led around an amusement park to various roller coasters. Strangely enough, both experiences make me want to throw up.

Bball
02-09-2010, 10:18 PM
The thing is, he could've just used the concussion excuse for sitting AJ a few games... then made up some excuse about how he couldn't just change gears with Ford now back in the lineup and developing chemistry.... blah blah blah...

But then again, it doesn't matter what O'Brien says, it's his actions that count. He's a mixed bag of messages and conflicting comments and actions.

He talks like a cross between Bobby Knight and Norman Dale.... and coaches like the exact opposite...

DGPR
02-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Yeah...it's true that what Obie does today doesn't necessarily tell us much about what he will do tomorrow. It's like being blindfolded and led around an amusement park to various roller coasters. Strangely enough, both experiences make me want to throw up.


This.

Unclebuck
02-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Once again let me just say, lets see what actually happens. AJ was coming off a concussion, but more than that many of you who are ready to jump out the window are the same who were ready to jump out the window when you thought that Roy was being benched and what Roy didn't start for 2 games and ever since he's been starting and playing big minutes. Lets see what happens.

Sookie
02-09-2010, 11:10 PM
Once again let me just say, lets see what actually happens. AJ was coming off a concussion, but more than that many of you who are ready to jump out the window are the same who were ready to jump out the window when you thought that Roy was being benched and what Roy didn't start for 2 games and ever since he's been starting and playing big minutes. Lets see what happens.

There's a difference between not starting a player and not playing one.

If it was the concussion, why wouldn't JOB say that? Instead of "I wanted to see the Vets" He's seen the vets. They suck. Okay..Watson typically doesn't "suck" He's just the definition of mediocre.

Honestly, it is fair to see what happens, but another DNP after break is inexcusable.

There is absolutely no reason to not play A.J. after break. He should be developed..and as I've said..it's a darn good thing he's a confident kid whose been through much harder times than a dumb coach. Most young players don't respond well to being benched when they are playing well.

On the other side, you can't put any stock into anything JOB says, so I suppose AJ could start the next game..

Mr. Sobchak
02-09-2010, 11:11 PM
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/images/olifant_tank1.jpg

vnzla81
02-09-2010, 11:31 PM
There's a difference between not starting a player and not playing one.

If it was the concussion, why wouldn't JOB say that? Instead of "I wanted to see the Vets" He's seen the vets. They suck. Okay..Watson typically doesn't "suck" He's just the definition of mediocre.

Honestly, it is fair to see what happens, but another DNP after break is inexcusable.

There is absolutely no reason to not play A.J. after break. He should be developed..and as I've said..it's a darn good thing he's a confident kid whose been through much harder times than a dumb coach. Most young players don't respond well to being benched when they are playing well.

they maybe want to see the vets because they want to trade them, lets wait until the trade deadline and if after that they keep benching AJ then we go to the fieldhouse with torches.

Ballerzfan
02-09-2010, 11:45 PM
they maybe want to see the vets because they want to trade them, lets wait until the trade deadline and if after that they keep benching AJ then we go to the fieldhouse with torches.

and pitchforks...this IS Indiana so don't forget the pitchforks...

Hoop
02-09-2010, 11:49 PM
:lynchmob::lynchmob::lynchmob:

IndyHoosier
02-09-2010, 11:53 PM
I don't know how to post pictures but this looks like JOB saw Ronnie James Dio in the crowd! :)

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2FGYI0059532602.jpg

cchobot
02-10-2010, 12:10 AM
I can't believe the DNP, I'm not an Indiana fan but I've been keeping tabs on AJ all year because I'm a Uconn fan and have been interested in whether or not AJ would be able to make it at the NBA level.

I have to say, never in my wildest dreams would I have seen the scenario play out like it has here in Indiana.

I hope one of the following happens:

1. JOB begins to say what he means and follow through with what he says. As noted above, there were/are valid reasons for not playing AJ tonight, any one of which would have been better than sending the message that it doesn't matter how well you play.

2. JOB is replaced

3. AJ is traded or released to another team (no offense but he's my only connection to Indie at this point, maybe he'd go to a team w/ other former Uconn players... although I do like Granger and have grown to like some other Indie players this year)

4. TJ or Earl is traded

I've got to say, #3 is my preferred option at this point (albeit the most unlikely). From what I've seen this year and reading everyone's comments here, it doesn't seem like JOB will change, doesn't seem like Bird is willing to make him change or make THE change, and the thought of having AJ waste away on the bench and then fade out of league is just sad after he's exceeded expectations.

The sad thing is, had the situation been handled differently (meaning had JOB said the right things) I'd probably be ok w/ the amount of PT AJ has received so far this year.

Roaming Gnome
02-10-2010, 01:09 AM
I can't believe the DNP, I'm not an Indiana fan but I've been keeping tabs on AJ all year because I'm a Uconn fan and have been interested in whether or not AJ would be able to make it at the NBA level.

I have to say, never in my wildest dreams would I have seen the scenario play out like it has here in Indiana.

I hope one of the following happens:

1. JOB begins to say what he means and follow through with what he says. As noted above, there were/are valid reasons for not playing AJ tonight, any one of which would have been better than sending the message that it doesn't matter how well you play.

2. JOB is replaced

3. AJ is traded or released to another team (no offense but he's my only connection to Indie at this point, maybe he'd go to a team w/ other former Uconn players... although I do like Granger and have grown to like some other Indie players this year)

4. TJ or Earl is traded

I've got to say, #3 is my preferred option at this point (albeit the most unlikely). From what I've seen this year and reading everyone's comments here, it doesn't seem like JOB will change, doesn't seem like Bird is willing to make him change or make THE change, and the thought of having AJ waste away on the bench and then fade out of league is just sad after he's exceeded expectations.

The sad thing is, had the situation been handled differently (meaning had JOB said the right things) I'd probably be ok w/ the amount of PT AJ has received so far this year.

Considering that AJ has the longest contract among our point guards (Isn't it 2 or did he get 3 years)... I don't see option 3 happening. You don't get out of the misery of having to follow the Pacers, that easily. Anyway, I don't think AJ has anything to worry about because Watson's contract is up here at the end of the season.

Bam
02-10-2010, 01:13 AM
UConn fan here. Not a Pacers fan (sorry!) but have tuned in to watch them due to AJP.

You guys don't even know what you have yet. In my mind, he is still not fully back to where he needs to be physically. He's 1.5 years removed from stepping on the court after blowing out is knee. Now his knee is fully recovered, but I'm only now starting to get consistent looks of the quickness and speed he had coming out of high school.

If this kid gets some time, he will be a legit NBA point guard....and in a few years he could very well be the steal of this draft. He's smart, mature, can drain the three (but only takes it within the flow), very clutch, doesn't turn it over much, doesn't force it and stronger than he looks. Most important, teammates love playing with him, for the reasons already mentioned. He didn't luck out in the height department...but that ain't stopping Chris Paul (not saying he is CP).

You'll see his quickness, step and speed increase over the next year imo. He's without a doubt the type of kid who will improve skill-wise as well. He's only had about 2 off seasons in the past four years to work on his game (and they weren't completely full strength).

I'm probably preaching to the quire here, but I'm excited about for the guy. Now we need some way to force Jimmy O to give him some burn.

cdash
02-10-2010, 01:19 AM
I have to say, never in my wildest dreams would I have seen the scenario play out like it has here in Indiana.

Your dreams must suck :D

pacers_heath
02-10-2010, 01:24 AM
I think JOB did the right thing here. Ford will probably be playing here again next season and we need to include him in the plan. There's no hurry to develop AJ. TJ is just way too talented to stick on the end of the bench (and pay him 8 million a year). Honestly I'd rather see a rotation of TJ and AJ and have Watson sit if he had to pick. Ford shows flashes of brilliance and being an elite player. I can't say the same for Earl. You can count on Earl to consistently be a well below average starting point guard in this league if that's what you want.

Ultimately, it was just unfair to TJ. He's the second best PG on this team right now at worst (no Price is not better yet) and has had a great attitude. We can't stick a player of his caliber on third string when we have years to develop AJ. Let's not get carried away and act like AJ Price is god.

CableKC
02-10-2010, 01:27 AM
Once again let me just say, lets see what actually happens. AJ was coming off a concussion, but more than that many of you who are ready to jump out the window are the same who were ready to jump out the window when you thought that Roy was being benched and what Roy didn't start for 2 games and ever since he's been starting and playing big minutes. Lets see what happens.
Can we get the official quote of what JO'B actually said?

I wouldn't be surprised if JO'B said something along this line....cuz ( as cdash alluded to ) this isn't something new for JO'B to change the rotation again. And as UB mentioned....I'm not surprised that AJ didn't play only because of his concussion from this last game.

For now, I would like to see what he specifically said regarding AJ and see what happens after the ASB. Also....I doubt that this is showcasing as most GMs knows TJs game by now....he wasn't injured...so it wasn't like GMs had to see that his game had changed or anything.....he was just benched in favor of other Players...for whatever reason.

I'm 99% of the way there with most of you.....it would not surprise me if JO'B did bench AJ in favor of Ford/Watson. Unfortunately, in this offense, TJ is only good in small quantities....whereas AJ works better in the long run simply because he runs the offense better.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 01:41 AM
Can we get the official quote of what JO'B actually said?

I wouldn't be surprised if JO'B said something along this line....cuz ( as cdash alluded to ) this isn't something new for JO'B to change the rotation again. And as UB mentioned....I'm not surprised that AJ didn't play only because of his concussion from this last game.

For now, I would like to see what he specifically said regarding AJ and see what happens after the ASB. Also....I doubt that this is showcasing as most GMs knows TJs game by now....he wasn't injured...so it wasn't like GMs had to see that his game had changed or anything.....he was just benched in favor of other Players...for whatever reason.

I'm 99% of the way there with most of you.....it would not surprise me if JO'B did bench AJ in favor of Ford/Watson. Unfortunately, in this offense, TJ is only good in small quantities....whereas AJ works better in the long run simply because he runs the offense better.

From Well's article

"We always said come Jan. 1, if we were not hitting on all cylinders that we would use (Price) and see what we had," O'Brien said. "It's been a valuable five weeks to evaluate our 52nd pick and to be able to project him into the future. I think he's done well. He's learning every game that he's playing."

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html

Argue all you want about whether A.J. is "better" or "more talanted" than T.J., he outplayed him significanty. And the team played better with him as opposed to T.J. We are almost .500 (about 10-12) with A.J. contributing significant minutes, and about 9-22 when he doesn't. So even though it was obvious just watching the team..the stats prove it. We're better with Price in the rotation. *or without Ford*

If it continues..there's no way around it. It's just an unbelievably bad decision.

The interesting thing is, he's clearly talking out of his butt, yet again. If the plan was to only play AJ for a month or so, he wouldn't have started when Earl's family member past away.

If the PG rotation continues, I think the cold hard truth is...TJ Ford made a few three pointers, so AJ lost his spot.

BKK
02-10-2010, 01:53 AM
I wonder if we could package TJ, Diener and Stanko for Lebron?

hmmm tough one, Stanko is probably the deal breaker :dance:

Trader Joe
02-10-2010, 02:05 AM
See, my post in the game thread to see my emotions about this.

I won't be going to another Pacers game as long as this moron is the head coach, and you can book that even if I get free tickets, I WILL NOT GO.

He makes poor decisions and his rationale is flimsy as all hell. I'm done with him.

Trader Joe
02-10-2010, 02:08 AM
Last question posed to Jimmy on post game was about AJ not playing. Jimmy's answer was he wanted to see the vet PG's play!

Someone just shoot me in the ****ing head and get it over with...how stupid is this guy? How stupid does he think we are? How did he ever coach a team to the Eastern Conference Finals?

Trader Joe
02-10-2010, 02:10 AM
Once again let me just say, lets see what actually happens. AJ was coming off a concussion, but more than that many of you who are ready to jump out the window are the same who were ready to jump out the window when you thought that Roy was being benched and what Roy didn't start for 2 games and ever since he's been starting and playing big minutes. Lets see what happens.

UB, how can you stand being fed the bull**** logic he uses to justify it? That is what pisses me off.

Trader Joe
02-10-2010, 02:12 AM
I think JOB did the right thing here. Ford will probably be playing here again next season and we need to include him in the plan.

We have a plan? Could have fooled me.

Pacersfan46
02-10-2010, 02:29 AM
Would anyone like to know how entirely stupid this is? I got it covered ....

I don't even think as much of AJ Price compared to everyone I've had a conversation with about it on this site .... and even I think it's appalling. That's how disgustingly stupid this is.

How can any of these players possibly be comfortable with their role? Knowing next week it'll be different. It's completely stupid when only 2 players (Murphy, Granger) on the entire team haven't been shuffled like a deck of cards.

-- Steve --

BRushWithDeath
02-10-2010, 02:33 AM
It's O'Brien. The only shock would have been if this didn't happen.

imawhat
02-10-2010, 03:08 AM
Seriously, is anyone really stunned by this?

I'm glad he's benching AJ. It's going to take a string of boldly idiotic moves (or more) to get him out of here, so let's see more.

Jim's coaching style has worn out its welcome and it's time for him to go; as in now, before the end of the season. I honestly think we'd play better with no coach; it's that bad.

Bball
02-10-2010, 05:26 AM
can drain the three (but only takes it within the flow), .

Well then we have no place for that in our roster. We don't have time for the offense to flow. We gotta get that ball up the court and get those shots in the air. "Push, Push, Push!!!! You can't score if you don't shoot!!!"

vnzla81
02-10-2010, 06:28 AM
they still talking about playoffs? do they think we are that stupid?:kicknuts:


http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html


Price goes from first to third
THE `HOUSE - It didn't take long for the Twitter and emails comments to start popping in once people realized coach Jim O'Brien replaced A.J. Price with T.J. Ford as Earl Watson's backup.

"Benching AJ Price for TJ Ford? Screw you, O'Brien," one person wrote on his Twitter page.

O'Brien made the switch because he wants to play the veterans now that he knows what to expect out of Price.

It also says O'Brien still has his sights on - brace yourself for this - the playoffs (I can't believe I just typed that word).

"We always said come Jan. 1, if we were not hitting on all cylinders that we would use (Price) and see what we had," O'Brien said. "It's been a valuable five weeks to evaluate our 52nd pick and to be able to project him into the future. I think he's done well. He's learning every game that he's playing."

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 07:37 AM
Ultimately, it was just unfair to TJ. He's the second best PG on this team right now at worst (no Price is not better yet) and has had a great attitude.

TJ got benched because he chooses not to pass the ball.

That's an attitude problem.

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Can anyone find a direct quote anywhere in which O'Brien says that Price is being demoted to third string on a going forward basis

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 07:59 AM
From Well's article

"We always said come Jan. 1, if we were not hitting on all cylinders that we would use (Price) and see what we had," O'Brien said. "It's been a valuable five weeks to evaluate our 52nd pick and to be able to project him into the future. I think he's done well. He's learning every game that he's playing."

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html

Argue all you want about whether A.J. is "better" or "more talanted" than T.J., he outplayed him significanty. And the team played better with him as opposed to T.J. We are almost .500 (about 10-12) with A.J. contributing significant minutes, and about 9-22 when he doesn't. So even though it was obvious just watching the team..the stats prove it. We're better with Price in the rotation. *or without Ford*

If it continues..there's no way around it. It's just an unbelievably bad decision.

The interesting thing is, he's clearly talking out of his butt, yet again. If the plan was to only play AJ for a month or so, he wouldn't have started when Earl's family member past away.

If the PG rotation continues, I think the cold hard truth is...TJ Ford made a few three pointers, so AJ lost his spot.

There is no quote from O'Brien discussing Price being demoted to third string - not even close

jhondog28
02-10-2010, 08:19 AM
What we be truly telling is what JOB does after Feb 18th. If Price is not your starting PG after the deadline then JOB must go because as Hicks said it is totally unacceptable.

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 08:22 AM
What we be truly telling is what JOB does after Feb 18th. If Price is not your starting PG after the deadline then JOB must go because as Hicks said it is totally unacceptable.

So if Watson is the starter and Price is backing him up JOB must go on that basis alone

Speed
02-10-2010, 08:28 AM
Obie says this about AJ "...He's learning every game that he's playing."

That's the problem, he's not playing now. Out of Obies own mouth is the argument to play him. Unacceptable indeed. If this is truely some feeble attempt to move TJ in the next 8 days, so be it. If after the deadlines, AJ is still sitting it is unacceptable.

DaveP63
02-10-2010, 08:30 AM
You are overlooking the obvious...TJ came in and hit a couple of 3s while Earl was out. Ergo...He's stretching the floor. Your welcome.

Deadshot
02-10-2010, 08:33 AM
We need to start chanting "FIRE O'BRIEN!".

Much like the Knick fans did for Isiah a few years back. I was there to witness it when we crushed them.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EqDBc9SKtak&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EqDBc9SKtak&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

EDIT: I didn't film this. This was against the Warriors.

That would require there to be fans in the seats first.

Major Cold
02-10-2010, 08:51 AM
Buck. Last game AJ was demoted to see the vets play. It was not because of injury, it was to see the vets play. We have no indication if this is a permanent solution or even show casing TJ.

You are alone on this one. When it comes to JOB we have to look at what he does with the lineup, not what he says he is going to do. I personally did not think that TJ deserved being benched completely. But when AJ played particularly well I thought the move was good for the team.

I think JOB is done with the Pacers.

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 09:02 AM
Buck. Last game AJ was demoted to see the vets play. It was not because of injury, it was to see the vets play. We have no indication if this is a permanent solution or even show casing TJ.

You are alone on this one. When it comes to JOB we have to look at what he does with the lineup, not what he says he is going to do. I personally did not think that TJ deserved being benched completely. But when AJ played particularly well I thought the move was good for the team.

I think JOB is done with the Pacers.

I only mentioned injury to suggest that it may have been a factor - I am aware of what Jim said after the game and I have read the quotes in Wells article that I believe are from before the game - could be wrong on the timing.

Not sure where i am alone. I have not stated an opinion about anything about who should be starting backing up and who should be third strong. I am alone in trying to bring some calm to this situation by suggesting we wait to see what happens first

My only point is before we commit suicide lets wait to see how this plays out and it isn't like JOB has come out and said point blank that Price is moving back to third string (it very well might happen) but a lot of things "might happen" why not wait and see what happens before we panic. I used the example of Roy to show that things change quickly - two weeks ago everyone was panicking because the thought was he was being moved to the bench - I could dig out the old threads - and look what is happening now. Chances are Jim will give this a lot of thought over the next week and he might not even know what he is going to do.

WetBob
02-10-2010, 09:19 AM
UB, how can you stand being fed the bull**** logic he uses to justify it? That is what pisses me off.

Are you kidding me? JOB's BS is Unclebuck's life blood!!

He lives for it. It is almost 100% of his diet at this point. He is a JOB bull****tarian .

WetBob
02-10-2010, 09:21 AM
My only point is before we commit suicide lets wait to see how this plays out and it isn't like JOB has come out and said point blank that Price is moving back to third string (it very well might happen) but a lot of things "might happen" why not wait and see what happens before we panic. I used the example of Roy to show that things change quickly - two weeks ago everyone was panicking because the thought was he was being moved to the bench - I could dig out the old threads - and look what is happening now. Chances are Jim will give this a lot of thought over the next week and he might not even know what he is going to do.

Thanks for being so high and mighty that you can calm us all down by telling us your savior doesn't even know what he's going to do.

Huge help, big guy.

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Thanks for being so high and mighty that you can calm us all down by telling us your savior doesn't even know what he's going to do.

Huge help, big guy.

I'm glad I could be of some help

Actually I don't think I've defended O'Brien at all in this thread. I've defended being reasonable and waiting to see what actually happens - and I have asked if there is an actual quote from JOB about Price being demoted to third string

DgR
02-10-2010, 09:31 AM
From Well's article

"We always said come Jan. 1, if we were not hitting on all cylinders that we would use (Price) and see what we had," O'Brien said. "It's been a valuable five weeks to evaluate our 52nd pick and to be able to project him into the future. I think he's done well. He's learning every game that he's playing."

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/02/price_goes_from.html

Argue all you want about whether A.J. is "better" or "more talanted" than T.J., he outplayed him significanty. And the team played better with him as opposed to T.J. We are almost .500 (about 10-12) with A.J. contributing significant minutes, and about 9-22 when he doesn't. So even though it was obvious just watching the team..the stats prove it. We're better with Price in the rotation. *or without Ford*

If it continues..there's no way around it. It's just an unbelievably bad decision.

The interesting thing is, he's clearly talking out of his butt, yet again. If the plan was to only play AJ for a month or so, he wouldn't have started when Earl's family member past away.

If the PG rotation continues, I think the cold hard truth is...TJ Ford made a few three pointers, so AJ lost his spot.

JOB is a genius!

Don't you see his plan?? Despite acknowledging AJ has played extremely well, he's going to start Ford instead.
Meaning JOB is very committed to tanking the season. All under the cover of trying to reach the PO...:devil:

We're playing almost .500 ball with Price in the lineup, that's way too good! Need to pick up the losing...

well played sir...

Tom White
02-10-2010, 09:36 AM
Thanks for being so high and mighty that you can calm us all down by telling us your savior doesn't even know what he's going to do.

Huge help, big guy.

That is just being unduly harsh and rude. Sure, I've wondered where UB is coming from sometimes, but I'm sure many have wondered the same about me. Disagreeing respectfully is one thing, but your post is entirely another.

Now back to the subject at hand. I don't believe, in any form, that Ford or Watson have been "showcased". With the length of time they have been in the league, it makes no sense to me. What nobody has posted is the possibility that Price may have just had a lengthy showcase, as a prelude to including him in a deal. After all, many have wondered about how he would transition to the NBA, and if there are lingering effects from his college days injuries. Those uncertainties (on the part of NBA GMs) might also help to explain why he fell so far in the draft.

Opinions?

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 09:38 AM
I'm glad I could be of some help

I'll say this: you sure help to keep the discussion going.

Don't know how you do it. Not sure why. But you do, and always without malice, which is not easy to do around here.

WetBob
02-10-2010, 09:49 AM
That is just being unduly harsh and rude. Sure, I've wondered where UB is coming from sometimes, but I'm sure many have wondered the same about me. Disagreeing respectfully is one thing, but your post is entirely another.

How is my post rude or harsh? The sensitivity police are up early this morning.

Perhaps I've finally figured out this extremely odd love JOB/UB love affair. I think Unclebuck is only trying to position himself for a spot on JOB's staff. (No pun intended) If he can find a way to prove to JOB that there is actually someone out there with less basketball intelligence, maybe he really will get hired on.

Shade
02-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Either we're tanking, or Jim is the most narrow-minded, stubborn coach I've ever seen.

Quite possibly both.

Shade
02-10-2010, 10:16 AM
FTR, I still like T.J. and think he's better than Earl, but he should be playing with A.J., not Earl.

Brad8888
02-10-2010, 10:40 AM
Nobody wants TJ, teams are interested in either Watson or, more likely, Price as a part of trades as a result of seeing them play earlier in the season. Watson is more likely to go as part of a trade though, IMO, because Price would be valued fairly highly by the front office.

Also, I would not be surprised if O'B comes out and says that TJ has improved his play during practices and is being rewarded for that even though it would be nothing more than his typical BS. I actually suspect that TJ had been told at the beginning of his benching not to sweat the benching because his position with the team is "secure" (meaning he is untradeable) and that he would be back on the court as soon as the other two showed what they've got to potential trade partners. That would explain TJ's "professionalism", not complaining or sulking about being benched.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:06 AM
Watson is overrated...I rather see Price start, and Ford play backup.

Speed
02-10-2010, 11:15 AM
It's all about the future. PG looks like this. (repeating myself)

Watson=not under contract for next year
Deiner=not under contract for next year
TJ Ford=not wanted under contract for next year
AJ Price=Rookie who the coach says gets better by playing; will be here next year.

Now for a team that is NOT going to the playoffs and is building for the future, which one of these guys should be playing, first and foremost for the long term improvement of this team?

Again, it's a detriment to the franchise, if you don't play AJ Price.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 11:27 AM
they maybe want to see the vets because they want to trade them, lets wait until the trade deadline and if after that they keep benching AJ then we go to the fieldhouse with torches.


Don't forget the pitchforks, tar n feathers, and the rail.

ksuttonjr76
02-10-2010, 11:31 AM
It's all about the future. PG looks like this. (repeating myself)

Watson=not under contract for next year
Deiner=not under contract for next year
TJ Ford=not wanted under contract for next year
AJ Price=Rookie who the coach says gets better by playing; will be here next year.

Now for a team that is NOT going to the playoffs and is building for the future, which one of these guys should be playing, first and foremost for the long term improvement of this team?

Again, it's a detriment to the franchise, if you don't play AJ Price.

Heck, I would keep Ford around just so he can work with Price on his ball-handling skills. Not to be confused with decision-making skills :D,

KnicksRGarbage
02-10-2010, 11:38 AM
This obviously is a blatant boneheaded move on JOB part.
I'm dumbfounded by this man's logic.
I was thinking that maybe, all speculation, that the organization wants to tank to get a high pick...And either A. They just feed off of the notion that everyone hates JOB as coach and just encourage him to make these stupid decisions. or B. JOB really is this stupid and the FO is loving it in hope for a high pick.
Beyond that, I just don't know vaht zee hail is going on..

Anthem
02-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I've got to believe the concussion's playing a role in this. It's just too weird, otherwise.

I'm going to wait for a couple games before discussing tar and feathers.

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 11:55 AM
I've got to believe the concussion's playing a role in this. It's just too weird, otherwise.


If it's about the concussion, then it's weird not to say that's the reason.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2010, 11:58 AM
I only mentioned injury to suggest that it may have been a factor - I am aware of what Jim said after the game and I have read the quotes in Wells article that I believe are from before the game - could be wrong on the timing.

Not sure where i am alone. I have not stated an opinion about anything about who should be starting backing up and who should be third strong. I am alone in trying to bring some calm to this situation by suggesting we wait to see what happens first

My only point is before we commit suicide lets wait to see how this plays out and it isn't like JOB has come out and said point blank that Price is moving back to third string (it very well might happen) but a lot of things "might happen" why not wait and see what happens before we panic. I used the example of Roy to show that things change quickly - two weeks ago everyone was panicking because the thought was he was being moved to the bench - I could dig out the old threads - and look what is happening now. Chances are Jim will give this a lot of thought over the next week and he might not even know what he is going to do.


You and I are usually on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to JO'B, BUT you have a very valid point in "lets wait to see how this plays out." The reason is Jimmy is so unpredictable in what he says and what he does you can't be sure of anything the says or does. Sometimes I think he opens his mouth b4 he engages his brain, and things come out wrong. Other times I swear he says things to to stir the "pot of controversy."

"IF" after the Allstar break Jimmy continues to play TJ over AJ, I think even you, JO'B's most ardent supporter, has to agree Jimmy's got major flaws, and he's not the coach for this franchise.

McKeyFan
02-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Other times I swear he says things to to stir the "pot of controversy."


Regarding substitution patterns as well.

I've wondered recently whether there is a side to his personality that likes to "stir the pot," as you said.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I don't even think unclebuck has been a huge JOB supporter.

I think he's just stated over and over again that JOB has a logical explanation for everything he does, and that he (unclebuck) may not agree, but the logic is always there.

And I agree, JOB always has a good excuse.

Until now. And I think even UB knows that.

wintermute
02-10-2010, 12:11 PM
in fairness, obie did give aj a shot, benching ford in the process, when no one even had the inkling that he would.

so yeah, i'd wait and see for a bit too.

and for all the tough love obie gives rush and hibbert in the press, bottomline is that they're both getting the minutes to develop, despite bumps along the way and the curious double standard that obie seems to hold them to.

i think it's been mentioned before, there just aren't many nba coaches who would give a couple of 2nd year players major roles during a year that we're supposed to make the playoffs. not to mention giving significant time to a couple of rookies. when it's all said and done, i think we'd look back and consider obie as not too bad of a developmental coach.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 12:21 PM
in fairness, obie did give aj a shot, benching ford in the process, when no one even had the inkling that he would.

so yeah, i'd wait and see for a bit too.

and for all the tough love obie gives rush and hibbert in the press, bottomline is that they're both getting the minutes to develop, despite bumps along the way and the curious double standard that obie seems to hold them to.

i think it's been mentioned before, there just aren't many nba coaches who would give a couple of 2nd year players major roles during a year that we're supposed to make the playoffs. not to mention giving significant time to a couple of rookies. when it's all said and done, i think we'd look back and consider obie as not too bad of a developmental coach.

Supposed to make the Playoffs?

Are you serious?

First of all, we are a better team with the young guys. JOB should have no choice.

What he's obviously ignoring is that we are a better team with Price, too. And TJ is not a good point guard. Period. He should be third string.

My only hope is that they were showcasing Watson, as I know that no one wants Ford.

DaveP63
02-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Either we're tanking, or Jim is the most narrow-minded, stubborn coach I've ever seen.

Quite possibly both.

Yes...

Anthem
02-10-2010, 01:24 PM
If it's about the concussion, then it's weird not to say that's the reason.
I know. But with AJ outplaying the other guards on the team, it's hard to see why he's being moved out of the rotation unless the coach is mad at him for something behind the scenes. And that's not how it sounds from Obie's quote.

Only other explanation that makes sense is that we're about to move either Watson or TJ in a trade, and Obie wants to break them in slowly.

I don't know, I don't have a good explanation. It's just a bizarre situation all the way around.

Shade
02-10-2010, 01:27 PM
Y'know, I wouldn't be opposed to running T.J. as a SG against certain teams. That would help keep all 3 players in the rotation.

Anthem
02-10-2010, 01:47 PM
Y'know, I wouldn't be opposed to running T.J. as a SG against certain teams. That would help keep all 3 players in the rotation.
But then how would Dunleavy get his minutes?

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 01:50 PM
But with AJ outplaying the other guards on the team,

I don't agree with your statement. I think Earl has outplayed AJ overall. AJ's defense has a long way to go before it approaches Earl's. I also think that TJ has played rather well in the past three games. AJ played well especially for a rookie. Each of the three are fine backup point guards right now - none are good starters right now.

.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 02:14 PM
I don't agree with your statement. I think Earl has outplayed AJ overall. AJ's defense has a long way to go before it approaches Earl's. I also think that TJ has played rather well in the past three games. AJ played well especially for a rookie. Each of the three are fine backup point guards right now - none are good starters right now.

.

TJ played better than he has earlier this season, but AJ has most certainly outplayed TJ. It's not even debatable. And even when saying that. To put it in persepsective. He had a good game against a terrible team, and then had a high scoring game against his former team. He's had more assists than turnovers in the past two games. He hasn't been a good enough point guard to merit benching A.J.

I think you can argue either way with Watson. However, AJ is easily more talanted, has much more upside, and Indiana plans to keep him for the next three years, where as Watson is most likely not staying.

Honestly, the logical thing to do would actually be to have an AJ/TJ backcourt. As they are going to be here next season. I don't want to see that. But it actually makes sense. They'll both be here. Watson won't.

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2010, 03:29 PM
Last question posed to Jimmy on post game was about AJ not playing. Jimmy's answer was he wanted to see the vet PG's play!
It's called practice. There, now you've seen them.


I will say that it's so unbelievable that it would seem to have to be a TJ showcase or a "Watson to be dealt, get used to TJ again" move.

If those 2 are here for the remainder of the year and AJ is left on the bench....meltdown.

I'm officially at the "will not renew my seats if he's the coach" point.


I don't agree with your statement. I think Earl has outplayed AJ overall. AJ's defense has a long way to go before it approaches Earl's.
Give me a break. Are we still playing that game. Watson has been struggling more and more on defense and I thought people were starting to realize it.

Last night in the 4th, the INSTANT Watson entered the game Rose went right at him for a score, including the foul. Just a bit later he shot right over him. He also drove to the lane for a couple of assists. You could see the strategy change, just like when Troy or Dun enter and a team immediately pulls them into a PnR or an iso.



Meanwhile Watson turned the ball over several times down the stretch, and IMO it was he and Granger that lost the game (Danny's defense was a joke). Roy missed some shots, Troy had some problems, but they didn't impact the game negatively like Watson and Danny, especially on defense.


I don't want Earl out because he's also played well. Just not so well that he stands above others, which is how he ended up with the Pacers in the first place. And his defense has been part of the problem.

AJ's not a great defender himself, but he's young and eager.

I said keep it as Wastson/AJ with TJ doing some part-time SG off the bench. All year I've said "Jason Terry role", it's perfect for him with a team that lacks scoring options off the bench. Or just flip him from starter to 0 minutes to starter to 0 minutes.


Of course that kind of 100% or nothing weird swapping of players has long since been the bizarre norm around here.

Hell, JOB played RASHO in the final game when he clearly wasn't returning rather than play one of the younger guys more. Meaningless home game, Rasho. It's turning into a weird, unfunny joke.

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2010, 03:31 PM
But then how would Dunleavy get his minutes?
Playing for the Clippers?

Speed
02-10-2010, 03:33 PM
When is it time to do offseason predictions? I feel the need to fast forward about 2 months.

d_c
02-10-2010, 03:34 PM
He's seriously didn't say that, did he? Where's D_C_ to convince us that JOB is a good coach due to his time in Philly and Boston, and Indiana has little to no talent?

I don't need to convince you that JOB beat a 3rd seeded Pacer team in the playoffs with a 6th seeded Celtics squad, because it actually did happen.

I just need to remind you.

Somehow you do need convincing that a team with Murphy as the 2nd best player on the squad isn't a very talented one.

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2010, 03:37 PM
Once again let me just say, lets see what actually happens. AJ was coming off a concussion, but more than that many of you who are ready to jump out the window are the same who were ready to jump out the window when you thought that Roy was being benched and what Roy didn't start for 2 games and ever since he's been starting and playing big minutes. Lets see what happens.
Did you ever wonder if some of the feedback here makes it's way back toward the team?

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2010, 03:38 PM
When is it time to do offseason predictions? I feel the need to fast forward about 2 months.
This is why I broke down and bought NBA2k10 when I'd planned to skip it this year. :D

Imaginary scouting combine here I come.

Unclebuck
02-10-2010, 03:40 PM
Did you ever wonder if some of the feedback here makes it's way back toward the team?

Probably does, but not today most of the players are on some tropical island some where - the last thing ghey are thinking about is this forum.

edit: so if Ford is traded in the next week, does this whole thread become moot

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't even think unclebuck has been a huge JOB supporter.

I think he's just stated over and over again that JOB has a logical explanation for everything he does, and that he (unclebuck) may not agree, but the logic is always there.

And I agree, JOB always has an excuse.

Until now. And I think even UB knows that.
Fixed. Now I also agree.



BTW, let's say it's Kevin Durant. You play him to find out what you have. Do you then bench him once you know?

Of course not. Why? Because he's playing too good, or at the very least because you want him to develop and be better in the future.

Taking a look and then benching a guy means only 1 thing, not good enough now and we don't have time to develop him at this point. The first is iffy and the second is outright wrong.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 04:16 PM
Fixed. Now I also agree.



BTW, let's say it's Kevin Durant. You play him to find out what you have. Do you then bench him once you know?

Of course not. Why? Because he's playing too good, or at the very least because you want him to develop and be better in the future.

Taking a look and then benching a guy means only 1 thing, not good enough now and we don't have time to develop him at this point. The first is iffy and the second is outright wrong.

The first would be "iffy" if the other two point gaurds weren't TJ and Earl.

Regardless of whether it's "iffy" if he's technically good enough to be playing backup PG or starting PG in the NBA. Truth is, he's the best the pacers have.

Our winning percentage with him vs. without him is ridiculous.

Which suggests three reasons for the benching.
1. Jim's an idiot
2. We were trying to showcase Watson or Ford
3. We're tanking, Price is screwing that up.

I don't buy 3. If your gonna tank, you play the young guys regardless.

2 is possible, but I'm leaning towards 1. I guess we'll see.

chrisjacobs7
02-10-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm officially at the "will not renew my seats if he's the coach" point.

You're not the only one... either he goes or I go.

PacerDude
02-10-2010, 05:49 PM
Which suggests three reasons for the benching.
1. Jim's an idiot
2. Jim's an idiot
3. Jim's an idiotCorrected.

You're welcome. :D

Almost forgot ................

4. Jim's an idiot

flox
02-10-2010, 07:01 PM
I don't quite understand how this is unacceptable, TJ is playing well, you don't want to risk having AJ getting some trauma or head blows after just receiving a concussion, this is a great move by the Pacers.

Sookie
02-10-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't quite understand how this is unacceptable, TJ is playing well, you don't want to risk having AJ getting some trauma or head blows after just receiving a concussion, this is a great move by the Pacers.

It's because JOB suggested the move is permanent.

Not playing AJ for precautionary reasons is fine. Then say that.

But with A.J. ready to go, JOB saying "I wanted to see the Vets play" is unacceptable, if it stays that way.

Sookie
02-19-2010, 10:58 PM
This needs to be bumped.

It's past the trade deadline.
He's healthy.

No excuses, other than Jim's decision making.

WTF is Jim doing?

1. This messes with his head and development. How can a kid repeatedly handle playing well and then getting benched in favor of a guy who is not playing well. He'll probably have a second rookie season now too. He needs to learn.

2. Trying to win Jimmy? Sorry, you have a much better chance to win with Price than without him. (12-11 in games where he got significant competitive playing time. 6-25 when he doesn't. And remember in two of those losses, Price, by himself, made the game competitive again, and in one of them Him, Hans and Jeff made the team competitive) Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with "the team looks better with Price running the show" those numbers are astounding.

3. Trying to tank Jimmy? Nope, sorry. That's not how you tank. You tank by playing the young guys. I said the best chance to win would be playing Price. Not that we'd be a winning team. You let the young guys, the guys who actually have a future here, play.

4. Want to talk about something positive for the Pacers? Before the benching, there seemed to be a plethora of positive press for the Pacers because of Price. He got his first start, there were interviews, articles..he was the Pacers Brightspot, SOMETHING to at positively with Roy and Rush being on and off, Tyler not being able to play, Dun and Danny struggling, and the Pacers stinking it up.

There's absolutely no excuse for the benching. None. Zero. Zip.

And honestly, JOB hasn't even given a reason for it.

Thesterovic
02-19-2010, 11:01 PM
The only thing I can think of is that TJ makes about 8.5M this year, and Earl altogether with OKC makes about 8.9M. AJ makes about 457k. This may have something to do with Herbert Simon.

I don't know theres really no excuse.

graphic-er
02-19-2010, 11:09 PM
Most likely we'll AJ again in the next few games. TJ played pretty well in those 2 games where Watson was out. As a coach you can't expect the players to keep playing hard for you if a player who came in played hard for 2 games and gets sent back to the bench. Ford has been leveling back out now and will most likely see split time with AJ.

JOB will be coaching this terrible team next year. He has to reward hard work when he sees it, even if it comes from the player he benched earlier.

Sookie
02-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Most likely we'll AJ again in the next few games. TJ played pretty well in those 2 games where Watson was out. As a coach you can't expect the players to keep playing hard for you if a player who came in played hard for 2 games and gets sent back to the bench. Ford has been leveling back out now and will most likely see split time with AJ.

JOB will be coaching this terrible team next year. He has to reward hard work when he sees it, even if it comes from the player he benched earlier.

AJ played pretty good for a month. TJ played one good game, and scored well another. This is after being absolutely terrible for two months. Which player has earned the time again?

JOB said he won't play a 3pg rotation.

Only an idiot wouldn't be playing the young guy at this point. I'd like to say I'm confident Price will eventually get minutes again. But I'm really not.

And now to make it worse, JOB is throwing that "watson/ford" backcourt out in crunch time...sucking up Rush's time.

graphic-er
02-19-2010, 11:27 PM
AJ played pretty good for a month. TJ played one good game, and scored well another. This is after being absolutely terrible for two months. Which player has earned the time again?

JOB said he won't play a 3pg rotation.

Only an idiot wouldn't be playing the young guy at this point. I'd like to say I'm confident Price will eventually get minutes again. But I'm really not.

And now to make it worse, JOB is throwing that "watson/ford" backcourt out in crunch time...sucking up Rush's time.

I don't disagree with you, its a tough decision from the teams viewpoint. You need to play these veteran guys because you are going to be able to trade them come draft day and on. I have to think bird is going to structure one of these expirings for a draft day trade. So you gotta show teams they have more value than just an expiring contract. So if you can show that Ford is still a decent player in the final 30 games of the season, then you should do it, as it will only help improve your trade deals come summer time.

I can imagine the Pacers trading their 4th pick + murphy to the Hornets for David West, as the Hornets are going to pretty much have to unload this guy next season due to luxury tax.

Sookie
02-19-2010, 11:34 PM
I don't disagree with you, its a tough decision from the teams viewpoint. You need to play these veteran guys because you are going to be able to trade them come draft day and on. I have to think bird is going to structure one of these expirings for a draft day trade. So you gotta show teams they have more value than just an expiring contract. So if you can show that Ford is still a decent player in the final 30 games of the season, then you should do it, as it will only help improve your trade deals come summer time.

I can imagine the Pacers trading their 4th pick + murphy to the Hornets for David West, as the Hornets are going to pretty much have to unload this guy next season due to luxury tax.

We've been trying to trade Ford since we got him. His contract will be a heck of a lot more valuable to teams than his skills.

This isnt' about show casing him. That's not the explanation.

Sorry, this choice is just stupid. Like at least JOB had an explanation..one that had some basis in logic for his other really poor decisions. This one...I guess it's just a "this is the last straw" decision.

graphic-er
02-19-2010, 11:58 PM
We've been trying to trade Ford since we got him. His contract will be a heck of a lot more valuable to teams than his skills.

This isnt' about show casing him. That's not the explanation.

Sorry, this choice is just stupid. Like at least JOB had an explanation..one that had some basis in logic for his other really poor decisions. This one...I guess it's just a "this is the last straw" decision.

No its not. Other teams aren't like the Pacers, they don't bench players making 8-10 million a year ala TJ Ford, Jamal Tinsley, Ron Artest. So even if their primary value is just an expiring, they do need to be able to show that they can play and not totally wreck the team for one year just to get some money off the books. Most teams want to look competitive. So do you want a temporary PG thats been Banished to the bench for half the year or do you want a temporary PG who played and contributed. These things do factor in.

As I said I don't disagree with ya, I'd like to see Price get some decent minutes every game, even if it was just playing for a stretch during the 3rd qtr.

Unclebuck
02-20-2010, 08:01 AM
I just want to say two things

Ford has played rather well since being back ino the rotation

And for those of you are suggesting that oh no Price will never recover from this injustice - oh please if he is that fragile than he wasn't going to amount to anythng anyway. Price will be fine

Naptown_Seth
02-20-2010, 09:18 AM
Price. He'll recover.


Me, not so much.

Buck, I SAID PLAY FORD BACK WHEN JOB WOULDN'T.

Frankly this turn of events proves how bad JOB is. I wouldn't have just abadoned Ford because I think he can be productive...as the combo/SG scoring punch off the bench. Not the starting PG.

I didn't put Ford into 0 minutes, JOB DID. So take the "hey Ford is playing well" argument and shove it right back up JOB's rear end, not mine. It was JOB that didn't make the call and me that did. JOB only played him because Watson had to leave the team.

This is the s*** we've been complaining about.




Buck - will Ford being playing for the Pacers in 2 years? Will Price? Is the team expected to be a serious playoff team next season?

Then we are done debating this issue. It's been dumb, period. This is not how you help yourself 2 years from now. This is how you make tomorrow look exactly like today.

Unclebuck
02-20-2010, 09:26 AM
Buck - will Ford being playing for the Pacers in 2 years? Will Price? Is the team expected to be a serious playoff team next season?



I hear this argument all the time. but I'm not sure it makes any sense. so a coach on any team that isnt going to make the playoffs should only play player who are going to be here in two years. first of all who knows who is going to be here in two years. Two years is a long time. OK, so Dunleavy, Murphy, Josh, Ford, Watson, Foster, Diener, Solo, Head won't be here in two years, so we shouldn't play any of those players. OK so you only have 5 players left to play, Price, Rush(who was almost traded two days ago, so really chancs are he'll be gone in two years) D. Jones, Granger and Roy - is that what people really want? Even if I hold my nose and give you Josh, that is still only 6 players -

Why don't we just play Roy, Danny and Price and tell the league those are the only players who will be here in two years so that is all we are playing. Sure I'm being absurd to demonstrate the absurdity that JOB should only play those guys who will be here in two years and when he doesn't do that many of you call him all kinds of names

I'll say this about Price, he looks like an NBA player to me a great second round draft pick, but he doesn't look like Chris Paul or Derrick Rose who just needs some more time. I'm not sure if he'll ever me a top 15 starting point guard in the NBA. He has a lot to learn. we aren't siting on a superstar here.

Kemo
02-20-2010, 10:00 AM
He has a lot to learn. we aren't siting on a superstar here.

He sure isn't gonna "learn" , nor develop into a possible top 15 pg by jim O'Stupid shalacking his a$$ to the pine , when he "clearly outplays the other pgs in practice" *rolls eyes*


I think it is a buncha bull that AJ got the shaft like he did..




It is akin to going to Africa with a couple buddies, with a sack of Big Macs .. You done scarfed yours down...

But suddenly ...

While one of the buddies is out behind a bush taking a leak...you see an obviously starving Ethiopian kid .... you feel bad having done ate yours, so you give him one of your buddy's Big Macs..

As soon as you see your buddy coming back out the corner of your eye ..from taking a leak, you hurry up and forcefully take the big mac from the starving kids mouth during mid-bite and give it back to your buddy...



AJ is that starving kid .. and Jim O'Stupid is the man with the big macs in the crudely constructed example...



While I with others, agree Ford should get minutes... by no means should the minutes he get relegate AJ to get DNP-cd's... PERIOD





.

vnzla81
02-20-2010, 10:14 AM
It is akin to going to Africa with a couple buddies, with a sack of Big Macs .. You done scarfed yours down...

But suddenly ...

While one of the buddies is out behind a bush taking a leak...you see an obviously starving Ethiopian kid .... you feel bad having done ate yours, so you give him one of your buddy's Big Macs..

As soon as you see your buddy coming back out the corner of your eye ..from taking a leak, you hurry up and forcefully take the big mac from the starving kids mouth during mid-bite and give it back to your buddy...



this is funny ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:

Sookie
02-20-2010, 10:54 AM
I hear this argument all the time. but I'm not sure it makes any sense. so a coach on any team that isnt going to make the playoffs should only play player who are going to be here in two years. first of all who knows who is going to be here in two years. Two years is a long time. OK, so Dunleavy, Murphy, Josh, Ford, Watson, Foster, Diener, Solo, Head won't be here in two years, so we shouldn't play any of those players. OK so you only have 5 players left to play, Price, Rush(who was almost traded two days ago, so really chancs are he'll be gone in two years) D. Jones, Granger and Roy - is that what people really want? Even if I hold my nose and give you Josh, that is still only 6 players -

Why don't we just play Roy, Danny and Price and tell the league those are the only players who will be here in two years so that is all we are playing. Sure I'm being absurd to demonstrate the absurdity that JOB should only play those guys who will be here in two years and when he doesn't do that many of you call him all kinds of names

I'll say this about Price, he looks like an NBA player to me a great second round draft pick, but he doesn't look like Chris Paul or Derrick Rose who just needs some more time. I'm not sure if he'll ever me a top 15 starting point guard in the NBA. He has a lot to learn. we aren't siting on a superstar here.

oh come on.

I know you just have to defend JOB here, but he's made a god awful decision. And him nor you apparently, can come up with a good reason why he did it.

No one is saying don't play players who won't be here in two years, We are saying PLAY players who will be here in two years.

We aren't going to the playoffs, actually we have a better shot at losing with Ford on the floor. (We've lost four in a row with Ford in the rotation. Guess how many times we've lost four in a row with AJ in the rotation. ZERO) There's absolutely no reason to not play Price, and you yourself have said that Price "has a lot to learn" so let him freaking learn it.

And Ford has played well as scoring guard, not as a point guard. Offense still stalls, he still turns the ball over like mad, he still dribbles too far into the paint and expects his teammates to bail him out, and he still looks for his shot first second and third. Now, he's good at scoring.

So give him Luther head's minutes, and put AJ back at the point.

Personally, the smartest PG rotation would be Price/TJ
1. It allows AJ to play
2. Those two, baring trade, will be here next year
3. It's not the best PG lineup, so we'll still lose plenty.

It's not the PG rotation I want to see. And I've said a bunch that TJ isn't a point guard, but I can see where this would be our smartest move. It really doesn't matter which of the other two pgs you bench, but Price needs to be one of the one's playing. No excuse for him not to be. None, zero. (and no, TJ has not outplayed him as a point guard, the past in the past five games TJ has had 4 turnovers, twice. AJ has only had four turnovers once in 32 games. Him and Watson let a rookie guard, the same Rookie guard that AJ outplayed, get a tripple double and hit some of the biggest shots in the game last night. He scored well. But that's been my point, he's a bad point guard, good scorer)


And no one is saying that Price can't handle Jim's idiocy. Although I think a softer kid might not. But jeez, TJ clearly has had enough of him..and AJ has dealt with more crap than TJ has.

Anyway, I think Price will get playing time as soon as JOB has determined that the Pacers are definitely out of the playoffs. I'm not sure when that'll be though. And I don't know what kind of time he'll get. Really not the way to rebuild...

But I mean really, you wanna know why we hate Jim Obrien the coach, this stuff is why we hate Jim O'brien the coach.

the jaddler
02-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Here's the bottom line. YOU PLAY TO WIN!!! It doesnt matter if your first or last! You are there for 3 reasons. 1. To win. 2. Keep the fans happy and keep them coming back. 3. Make money.

Now if you dont win then you wont keep fans happy(espically with stupid moves and comments) and then if you cant do 2 well #3 deffintly wont happen!!!!

This is unacceptable!

Jim OBrien = EPIC FAIL, and if they dont get rid of him just may very well cause the complete downfall of the Indiana Pacers Francise.