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Hicks
02-06-2010, 01:15 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100206/SPORTS04/2060398/1088/SPORTS04/Rookie-Hansbrough-s-health-problem-worsens

Mike Wells
IndyStar.com



Indiana Pacers rookie forward Tyler Hansbrough has gone from doing some on-court work to not being able to do anything at all.

Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said he's not sure if the first-round pick will be ready to return to the lineup from his inner ear infection by the time they return from the All-Star break.
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"I do not know if we will have Tyler," O'Brien said. "He's not working out at all. If he's able to come back and start working out, that's going to be important, because the fact that he's been told that he is not really allowed to move around, even one on none, is a real setback from the conditioning standpoint."

Hansbrough's rookie season has been a disappointment so far.

He missed training camp and the first four games with a shin problem. His ear infection has caused him to miss 17 of the past 21 games.

Hansbrough went to New York earlier this week to see a specialist about his infection. He can't wait to get back to playing.

"Yeah, I'm confident (I'll get back this season),'' Hansbrough said. "We're on the right track. I just have to take some time.''

I'm glad Tyler's confident because I'm not.

I've said it before, and loudly, and I'll say it again now, but in a softer voice: This season sucks.

vnzla81
02-06-2010, 01:20 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100206/SPORTS04/2060398/1088/SPORTS04/Rookie-Hansbrough-s-health-problem-worsens

Mike Wells
IndyStar.com



I'm glad Tyler's confident because I'm not.

I've said it before, and loudly, and I'll say it again now, but in a softer voice: This season sucks.

just wait until next season when we realize that JOB is going to be the coach:(

speakout4
02-06-2010, 01:27 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100206/SPORTS04/2060398/1088/SPORTS04/Rookie-Hansbrough-s-health-problem-worsens

Mike Wells
IndyStar.com



I'm glad Tyler's confident because I'm not.

I've said it before, and loudly, and I'll say it again now, but in a softer voice: This season sucks.
Assume he will not be back this season but will be ok for next. I'll take that.

odeez
02-06-2010, 01:35 PM
It does suck, it's like we are payoffing some cosmic karma debt. Tyler should be preparing to play in the Rookie/Soph game. Well hopefully he can be there as a Sophomore.

The way it looks, we are headed were we always are, a draft pick in the teens. This team needs more talent, less overpaid role players. :cry:

Sookie
02-06-2010, 01:40 PM
I always thought that working out had to be bad for his ear infection.

The moisture in there had to be making it worse.

Now with the vertigo I'm not sure how that works. But it doesn't suprise me that doctors would prefer he didn't work out while he's still getting dizzy.

vnzla81
02-06-2010, 01:55 PM
they should just let him rest for the rest of the year.

Anthem
02-06-2010, 02:17 PM
they should just let him rest for the rest of the year.
You say that like they're gonna have a choice.

denmunny6
02-06-2010, 02:38 PM
At least he has both his ACLs. How stupid would the Pacers have looked if they drafted a guy without ACLs.

vnzla81
02-06-2010, 02:43 PM
You say that like they're gonna have a choice.

they had a choice two weeks ago and the let him practice and play

Smoothdave1
02-06-2010, 02:44 PM
If Tyler is out for the year, what role does this play in the Pacers potentially dealing Murphy? It looks like Jeff is probably out for the year leaving us with Roy, Murph, Solo, Josh and I guess Danny in the front court. I'm assume we might want a 4 or a 5 that we would keep so that we can play out the rest of the season. Otherwise, the Pacers may dip into free agency?

vnzla81
02-06-2010, 02:44 PM
At least he has both his ACLs. How stupid would the Pacers have looked if they drafted a guy without ACLs.

30 teams passed on the guy, we need to stop this argument, is not like he was(Blair) pick after we got Tyler.

ksuttonjr76
02-06-2010, 03:05 PM
If Tyler is out for the year, what role does this play in the Pacers potentially dealing Murphy? It looks like Jeff is probably out for the year leaving us with Roy, Murph, Solo, Josh and I guess Danny in the front court. I'm assume we might want a 4 or a 5 that we would keep so that we can play out the rest of the season. Otherwise, the Pacers may dip into free agency?

I'll be shocked if Murphy gets traded after this announcement. I'm not a fan of playing Granger at the PF full-time.

DrFife
02-06-2010, 03:35 PM
I'll be shocked if Murphy gets traded after this announcement.

There's still hope: Anthem for GM!

I love his proposal of Murph for Z, #1 and Powe. Perhaps a deal hasn't yet been done (in part) because of Hans' health AND Powe's health (or lack thereof). Anybody have any recent info on Powe's projected return date?

BlueNGold
02-06-2010, 03:54 PM
I'll be shocked if Murphy gets traded after this announcement. I'm not a fan of playing Granger at the PF full-time.

With Foster and Hans out, this does mean we need Murphy...or a solid alternative who is capable of starting. This is a worst case scenario IMO.

I suppose the improvement we've seen from Roy this year is a silver lining. Maybe Price and Rush are also positives. Otherwise, I'm with Hicks on this season.

ksuttonjr76
02-06-2010, 04:08 PM
There's still hope: Anthem for GM!

I love his proposal of Murph for Z, #1 and Powe. Perhaps a deal hasn't yet been done (in part) because of Hans' health AND Powe's health (or lack thereof). Anybody have any recent info on Powe's projected return date?

If we trade Murphy, we HAVE to take back a PF from the Cavs. This is the trade that I want, but I want Hickson as the 1st choice.

Doug
02-06-2010, 04:35 PM
If we trade Murphy, we HAVE to take back a PF from the Cavs. This is the trade that I want, but I want Hickson as the 1st choice.No we don't. I don't care if we have to play Diener at the 4 this year. (And I'd be OK with the Solo/McRoberts combo there anyway.)

How a trade affects our team this year really shouldn't matter. We aren't winning anything this season. Any trade we make should be geared toward making us better next season, or the one after.

dlewyus
02-06-2010, 04:38 PM
No we don't. I don't care if we have to play Diener at the 4 this year. (And I'd be OK with the Solo/McRoberts combo there anyway.)

How a trade affects our team this year really shouldn't matter. We aren't winning anything this season. Any trade we make should be geared toward making us better next season, or the one after.

You beat me to it. This is exactly what I was going to say. Even the Diener at the 4 part. As others have said, this season sucks anyway.

McKeyFan
02-06-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm gonna ask this question in both threads: Why did he get the ear infection?

Is it because he was staying in shape by swimming rather than on the court to keep his shin splints from acting up? If so, there may once again be something to criticize the training staff for.

Anthem
02-06-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm gonna ask this question in both threads: Why did he get the ear infection?
Because of the name on the front of his jersey.

Peck
02-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Sadly looks like next season will be rookie year #2 for Tyler. I'm with Hicks this season sucks and to quote the great Roaming Gnome "this season can't get over fast enough".

speakout4
02-06-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm gonna ask this question in both threads: Why did he get the ear infection?

Is it because he was staying in shape by swimming rather than on the court to keep his shin splints from acting up? If so, there may once again be something to criticize the training staff for.
You're probably right that it was the swimming but who could predict that the infection would do so much damage. In someone else it would have passed with few long lasting effects.
Pacers always seem to have ailments that don't heal very well. I'd say just dumb bad luck.

Wylder1324
02-06-2010, 05:19 PM
I agree that it isnt a must to get a big in return for Murphy. So what if we are thin at the 4 without him. We arent going to make the playoffs regardless, so who cares. Instead we finally get to see McRoberts and Solo get heavy minutes to see what we have while also solidifying ourselves with a better spot in the draft. Im not saying that I would be against aquiring Hickson in the trade, I would love that....but would be just as ok with getting the cap relief from Z and the Cavs 1st rounder in the draft......To be honest I wouldnt mind getting Z, 1st rounder and maybe Danny Green. If a PF is what we want (Hickson) I would prefer Patrick Paterson to Hickson in the draft.....regardless I hope we dont let the lack of Hickson's inclusion in the deal keep it from happening.

Sparhawk
02-06-2010, 05:21 PM
I still hope the Pacers trade Murphy. McBob can play, the Pacers will more than likely lose more games and hopefully netting a higher lottery pick. So they can essentially tank without really having to tank...they'll just be that bad.

Either way, yeah, this season can't end soon enough. I'm sure next year will be the same though.

Anthem
02-06-2010, 05:30 PM
McBob can play, the Pacers will more than likely lose more games and hopefully netting a higher lottery pick. So they can essentially tank without really having to tank...they'll just be that bad.
I'm not convinced they'd be worse.

IUfan4life
02-06-2010, 06:30 PM
30 teams passed on the guy, we need to stop this argument, is not like he was(Blair) pick after we got Tyler.

so what, carlos boozer wasn't taken until the 40's in his draft because hes too small to play

clownskull
02-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm gonna ask this question in both threads: Why did he get the ear infection?

Is it because he was staying in shape by swimming rather than on the court to keep his shin splints from acting up? If so, there may once again be something to criticize the training staff for.

i think to blame the ear infection on his training in the pool is probably a bit of a stretch. if it were so dangerous, no one would do it. even competitive swimmers wouldn't train in the pool because the threat would be too great. i have been in pools many times and never had an ear infection. this thing can likely be attributed to pacers luck.
all this being said, i doubt he plays anymore this year. injuries and illness never heal or go away with this team.

Tom White
02-06-2010, 07:22 PM
i think to blame the ear infection on his training in the pool is probably a bit of a stretch

I agree. It is just as likely he got it from listening to O'Brien.

graphic-er
02-07-2010, 12:14 AM
actually getting a ear infection from swimming is quite possible, especially if its cold outside and you don't use a q-tip to dry out your ears. Its usually due to fluid build up. Can be cause by blowing your nose too much, sinus drip as well.

Kemo
02-07-2010, 01:11 AM
I'm gonna ask this question in both threads: Why did he get the ear infection?

Is it because he was staying in shape by swimming rather than on the court to keep his shin splints from acting up? If so, there may once again be something to criticize the training staff for.


I'd bet the farm on it being from Tyler swimming in his normal regime of training..

Especially with the way our Indiana weather has been.. One day freezing cold.. the next 50 degrees outside..

I know that at least around the time after we drafted him, I have seen videos of him training/working out using swimming pool for strength/cardio conditioning doing water exercises..
Like I said, I'd about bet the farm on it being the cause...

All it takes is a little water in the ear, some cold Indiana wind blowing in it.. and voila insta-earache ... which can lead to inner ear infection..




.

Kemo
02-07-2010, 01:17 AM
I still hope the Pacers trade Murphy. McBob can play, .

I agree with this part...

I really would like to see McRoberts forced into the situation of having to step up and be the man..

It makes me sad, because if McBob actually got decent PT , we would probably have a chance at seeing him in the dunk contest during all star break..
I'd MUCH rather see him compete than Shannon Brown .

McBob would do very well in the dunk contest in my opinion ..
I'd LOVE to see McBob and Birdman have a go at it in the dunk competition ..




.

Kemo
02-07-2010, 01:24 AM
actually getting a ear infection from swimming is quite possible, especially if its cold outside and you don't use a q-tip to dry out your ears.

hmm.. I have read that you NEVER want to use a q-tip after having water in your ear.. Because , although yes it will dry the outer part of your ear canal, it actually pushes the water down further into your ear by the eardrum, and WILL in fact possibly cause an ear infection...

I was warned of this after I got a minor ear infection... by my dr. because I used to clean my ears after I would take a shower/bath..
I was told doing that was a BIG NO-NO ....

CableKC
02-07-2010, 01:33 AM
If Tyler is out for the year, what role does this play in the Pacers potentially dealing Murphy? It looks like Jeff is probably out for the year leaving us with Roy, Murph, Solo, Josh and I guess Danny in the front court. I'm assume we might want a 4 or a 5 that we would keep so that we can play out the rest of the season. Otherwise, the Pacers may dip into free agency?
I think it has a significant role in the Pacers decision to trade or not trade Murphy. I can see this as a major factor in holding out for more.....which IMHO is not a good thing. I'd be cool with Z+Powe+1st for Murphy+Diener....I just hope the Cavs are too.

CableKC
02-07-2010, 01:44 AM
I'll be shocked if Murphy gets traded after this announcement. I'm not a fan of playing Granger at the PF full-time.
Yeah......it's not like JO'B has any other options to play in the frontcourt :rolleyes: ( que Seth ).

That's one of the problem that I have with JO'B rotations....I can recognize that having Granger as a backup PF is beneficial and may be a better situational PF AT TIMES....but not as a regular lineup where Granger plays significant minutes at the PF spot. I just don't think that McRoberts and Solo are so bad that they only warrant garbage time on the floor or when he has absolutely no choice to play them ( such as when Hibbert gets into foul trouble early or when Murphy needs some rest ). McRoberts and Solo may not be good enough to be a 3rd Big Man option....but they are good enough to fill time as 4th/5th Big Men off the bench on an "as needed" basis.

If it's becoming likely that Hansbrough is going to miss signifcant parts of this season.....I hope that JO'B simply uses them more in the PF/C rotation and Granger less. Like it or not......JO'B may not have any choice.......a PF/C rotation where Granger/Murphy/Hibbert play the vast majority of time at rotation isn't a good long-term solution.

Psycho T
02-07-2010, 03:08 AM
Sinus Infections can turn into Ear Infections.. Its my guess.

ksuttonjr76
02-07-2010, 09:51 AM
No we don't. I don't care if we have to play Diener at the 4 this year. (And I'd be OK with the Solo/McRoberts combo there anyway.)

How a trade affects our team this year really shouldn't matter. We aren't winning anything this season. Any trade we make should be geared toward making us better next season, or the one after.

Yes, it does matter. IMHO, Solo and McRoberts are not the future at the PF. We take back a PF, so we don't have to draft one this year. Plain and simple. Hickson should be the prime target, because he's young (21) with potential. Powe would be the second target, because he can play the "Garbage PF" role.

I'm not in that whole "Give away barn" camp just because we're not making the playoffs. If we're going to make a trade, then we SHOULD get back something of value instead of a complete salary dump.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2010, 11:57 AM
30 teams passed on the guy, we need to stop this argument, is not like he was(Blair) pick after we got Tyler.
No, 30 teams didn't. The Spurs took him with the first pick they had.

Also not all 30 teams had a DESPERATE need for a POWER REBOUNDER. In fact there was probably no team that needed what Blair offered more than the Pacers did.

This is why they reached for Tyler.

All the non-draft followers have talked themselves into other teams fighting to get to him, but that is total Pacers PR BS. The Bulls DID NOT TRADE UP to get him, they let the Pacers take him and settled for SF/PF Johnson. The Bulls wanted to trade up for HENDERSON.

He tracked at 20-22 for 3 years, then suddenly on draft night he was a 13th pick? Come on.


So the Pacers needed a PF so bad that they reached 7-10 picks too soon because they were afraid he'd be gone, passed over MANY PGs and not just ones I liked but guys like Lawson who Bird wanted the year prior, and a year before one of the most PF loaded drafts ever....but they didn't need Blair?

The Sixers skipped Blair because they WANTED Holiday. Nugs didn't need Blair, the wanted a PG. They traded for Lawson and drafted a Spanish PG in round 2.

Lots of teams wanted one of the PGs in the draft.

Sure the Bulls and Pistons went for "PFs", both of whom tracked as PFs that played more like SFs, but then their choices lately haven't been working out so well anyway. Chicago also took Taj Gibson instead of Blair, though Gibson hasn't been too shabby.

Sacto made a great choice of Casspi, but did pass on Blair for Pendergraph.


Minny just drafted Kevin Love AND had Al Jefferson, so they took 2 PGs and later took a SG. They didn't "pass" on Blair.

Memphis took Thabeet as their big and then took the also overlooked Sam Young at SG, and Young has been ANOTHER one of the steals. They didn't pass on Blair, they took the options they wanted regardless of Blair's ACL situation.

In fact not that many teams actually did have "a shot" at Blair.

The Clippers took BLAKE GRIFFIN. Oh no, what idiots to pass on Blair. They didn't pick again before Blair was gone and had to settle for the clear #1 prospect who happened to be a PF.

Utah didn't pass on Blair, they are already overloaded at PF.

OKC may have passed on Blair when they chased the French PG on a possible flier, too soon to know if that was a smart choice or not.

NY already took Jordan Hill, so they went for a PG the next pick.

Cleveland chased a risky pick. I think they blew it passing on Blair.

Lakers, no pick before Blair was gone.


Here's the list of teams that might have chased something instead of going for Blair when they would have if the ACL thing didn't happen:

Pacers
Bulls
Pistons
Cavs (Evenga, Congo SF at 30th)
Wizards (took Taylor with their first pick, 32rd)
Blazers (took Cunningham with 33rd pick)
Sacto (Pendergraph with 31st pick)

Every other team either didn't have a pick, had a BETTER pick, had PF clearly filled with a star or recent high pick, or took a higher need position with a prospect ranked fairly well themselves.

The only passes are by teams that would have taken him had the ACL thing not come up. Teams set up strategies for their needs and can't chase slightly higher talent at a position they didn't scout or plan for.

If Blair was a bit better than Holiday, which it's not clear yet that he is because Jrue was by everyone's account about 2-3 years out from being NBA ready, he wasn't so much better than you just pass on your PG need to take "best available".

The Pacers, Bulls and Pistons were the teams that wanted to fill the PF spot, and the Bulls had Noah and Ty Thomas already.




I mean Blair is playing well, but not so well that Sacto is going "oh, we shouldn't have taken Evans". The Bulls look at Johnson and the Pistons look at Daye and can think "we blew it". Most of the other teams aren't saying that at this point.


AND the irony is that by altering your draft choice to avoid injury issues, you actually drafted right into injury issues. Only the Pacers can add that to the mix too. The Clips lost their PF, but they didn't pass on Blair because of injury, they took the top guy.



BTW, NBA TV did their rookie report card. They had Hans ranked about the same as Thabeet in terms of first half production. That's not a compliment, and wasn't about the injury but the on-court play.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2010, 12:11 PM
BTW, the shin splints were a known issue PRIOR to the draft. He missed games to start his senior year.

If the normal regime for training with splints is to swim, and swimming during the winter brings out the risk of season ending ear infections, then the team blatently walked right into this one.

Personally I don't buy the "bound to happen due to swimming" angle. Indy is hardly the only cold weather team, it's winter, and lots of guys have to use the pool during leg injury rehab or even normal cross-training. How many vertigo ear-infections have taken guys out for half-seasons?



Cable, it's cue or queue. ;) :) I'm backing off the McBob thing because I've totally lost hope there. It's not going to happen and I just don't care enough anymore to sweat it.

The draft angle - well I boo'd very loudly at the draft party. No fan was more PO'd than me at the time. I did NOT boo Tyler, I boo'd picking him there with Blair on the board.


PS - Blair is on a rookie deal. Year 2 his knees go out. WHO GIVES A S***. Rookie deal ends and you are done with him. Tyler was not projected to be a major factor, 1 year in or 10. He was bench fodder.

I said this pre-draft, take Blair, get your 2-3 years of strong inside rebounding and force and then his career ends when the knees go. That's still the better choice, and that's worst case scenario.

Gotta think full picture on these things. It was very low-risk at 13th in that draft, at least if you were going to take a PF no matter what. There were no other big time PF prospects, as in starter possible.

Now if they had taken Jrue or Lawson or Maynor then I wouldn't be ripping them, even if the PG was only at Price's level right now. That's passing due to NEED and you have this draft for your PF need. That's trading Blair then for Favors or Patterson now, which is fine.

Then again TPTB have apparently said they would have passed on Jennings at 13th, so it could have been worse.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2010, 12:16 PM
BTW, side benefit to all of Pacers Digest if Murphy is traded and McBob plays

1) McBeard is great, we all enjoy it, long term back PF is settled.

2) McBeard struggles, shows no real promise and with enough minutes under his belt to prove him out I STFU about him for good.

It's win-win.

Doug
02-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Yes, it does matter. IMHO, Solo and McRoberts are not the future at the PF. We take back a PF, so we don't have to draft one this year. Plain and simple. Hickson should be the prime target, because he's young (21) with potential. Powe would be the second target, because he can play the "Garbage PF" role.

I'm not in that whole "Give away barn" camp just because we're not making the playoffs. If we're going to make a trade, then we SHOULD get back something of value instead of a complete salary dump.I don't think we are going to get back our PF of the future with this trade. Hickson is young and potential, true. I'd like him back, too. But that should not in any way be a deal breaker.

My point is you can't solve all of our problems with one trade - so leaving us weaker at one position short term should not factor in. Wins and losses this year should not factor in. Making us weaker short term, but stronger long term is perfectly fine.

And, I don't have any problem at all with the McRoberts / Solo combination at the 4 this year. None what so ever.

Justin Tyme
02-07-2010, 12:17 PM
I agree. It is just as likely he got it from listening to O'Brien.



Then he must be one of the few that hasn't tuned out Jimmy this season!

vnzla81
02-07-2010, 12:47 PM
Only time would tell that Tyler was a better pick than Blair and at this moment I still like the pick, Blair is just ok to me, and yes 30 teams passed on the guy Seth you are going to tell me that if teams knew that the guy was going to be the next "Dale Davis"(according to you) are going to pass on him because they either pick or have a pf in place? really? Blair is good I give you that but to pretend that he is "the next coming" is ridiculous.

CableKC
02-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Only time would tell that Tyler was a better pick than Blair and at this moment I still like the pick, Blair is just ok to me, and yes 30 teams passed on the guy Seth you are going to tell me that if teams knew that the guy was going to be the next "Dale Davis"(according to you) are going to pass on him because they either pick or have a pf in place? really? Blair is good I give you that but to pretend that he is "the next coming" is ridiculous.
To be fair....I don't think that Seth is saying that he's "the next coming"...he just thinks that Blair is a better fit for this Team then Hansbrough.

But on the other side of the coin....it's really difficult to judge Hansbrough when he hasn't really played that many games.

Sookie
02-07-2010, 01:12 PM
To be fair....I don't think that Seth is saying that he's "the next coming"...he just thinks that Blair is a better fit for this Team then Hansbrough.

But on the other side of the coin....it's really difficult to judge Hansbrough when he hasn't really played that many games.

Exactly.

I think picking Blair would have been short sighted as well.

He doesn't have ACL's. He's not going to have a very long career. Indy's a rebuilding team, they want a player who will have a pretty long lasting career. There was no way to know Tyler was going to have a freaking ear infection...but I still say he has a longer lasting career than Blair.

For the most Part, a lot of teams were impressed by Hans, so I think he goes higher than "20th" in the draft if Indy doesn't pick him, anyway.

judicata
02-07-2010, 01:29 PM
Exactly.

I think picking Blair would have been short sighted as well.

He doesn't have ACL's. He's not going to have a very long career. Indy's a rebuilding team, they want a player who will have a pretty long lasting career. There was no way to know Tyler was going to have a freaking ear infection...but I still say he has a longer lasting career than Blair.

For the most Part, a lot of teams were impressed by Hans, so I think he goes higher than "20th" in the draft if Indy doesn't pick him, anyway.

This is correct. Seth's revisionist history has fully entered into absurdity.

His draft status and injury history have already been rehashed a dozen times by now, although I did enjoy the clairvoyant play by play of draft night.

Rexnom (I think) already slapped down the idea that Seth really wanted Blair with his own post history.

PaceBalls
02-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Exactly.

I think picking Blair would have been short sighted as well.

He doesn't have ACL's. He's not going to have a very long career. Indy's a rebuilding team, they want a player who will have a pretty long lasting career. There was no way to know Tyler was going to have a freaking ear infection...but I still say he has a longer lasting career than Blair.

For the most Part, a lot of teams were impressed by Hans, so I think he goes higher than "20th" in the draft if Indy doesn't pick him, anyway.

The way Blair is playing, ACLs appear to be overrated :p
He sure looks quite nimble on the court.

So say Blair's career is cut short by knee issues, we have already lost a whole year of Hansbrough. So Blair already has a 1 year advantage in the logevity category over Hans.

There is another aspect to this comparison as well, that being Blair appears to be a much better NBA player and just what this team needed to compete.

Sookie
02-07-2010, 01:48 PM
The way Blair is playing, ACLs appear to be overrated :p
He sure looks quite nimble on the court.

So say Blair's career is cut short by knee issues, we have already lost a whole year of Hansbrough. So Blair already has a 1 year advantage in the logevity category over Hans.

There is another aspect to this comparison as well, that being Blair appears to be a much better NBA player.

For now. Ask Tiger how important ACL's are.

Honestly, I give Blair 5 years tops. That's not very much.
I think Tyler will be around for much longer.

Is Blair better, possibly. Seems like it right now. But I'd rather have someone that's a little less good, but around much longer for a rebuilding team.
Blair's perfect for the Lakers, the Spurs, Cavs ect..teams that are looking to win now. Indiana's rebuilding. Tyler will be a good player, probably a good sixth man. He was the safe pick, and I think it was the right choice.

However, if they hadn't gotten Price, a pretty good PG, then that pick would have been a poor decision as this draft was Blake Griffen, Hasheem Thabeet...and the 57 midgets. You needed a point guard, and got lucky that someone like Price was able to be drafted. Because it would be pretty bad with no PG and Tyler being out.

PaceBalls
02-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Or ask Heinz Ward. He had quite a good and long career.

Anthem
02-07-2010, 02:07 PM
All the non-draft followers have talked themselves into other teams fighting to get to him, but that is total Pacers PR BS. The Bulls DID NOT TRADE UP to get him, they let the Pacers take him and settled for SF/PF Johnson. The Bulls wanted to trade up for HENDERSON.

He tracked at 20-22 for 3 years, then suddenly on draft night he was a 13th pick? Come on.
Where was TWill picked again?

JohnWild
02-07-2010, 02:56 PM
All the non-draft followers have talked themselves into other teams fighting to get to him, but that is total Pacers PR BS. The Bulls DID NOT TRADE UP to get him, they let the Pacers take him and settled for SF/PF Johnson. The Bulls wanted to trade up for HENDERSON.

He tracked at 20-22 for 3 years, then suddenly on draft night he was a 13th pick? Come on.



That's just plain wrong. The Bulls offered both of their 1st round draft picks for Tyler on draft night. You are correct in saying he was INITIALLY tracked as a 20ish pick, BUT after the pre-draft works (particularly the private ones) his stock improved significantly, evidenced partly by the Bulls offer (which the Pacers in my opinion should have taken and I am as big of fan as Tyler as they come, but I think that was a horrible move on their part). The Nets looked at him seriously. Toronto was VERY interested in him as well, but on the advice of his agent he did not work out for them. A team is less inclined to pursue someone who has made it clear he would rather not play for him.

I'm not disagreeing with any of your evaluations, but the subtle statement that Indy was the only team interested in him is wrong. If anything Indy made less of a reach for him than the Bulls or Toronto attempted to do.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2010, 03:00 PM
Where was TWill picked again?


Not sure I understand the direction you are going here.

1) Picked higher than expected? No, he tracked up quickly as the Big East wrapped up and in the conference tourney. He tracked 17th his JR year, dropped his SR year till he played up to the 13-14 range in April and May, slipped a bit in June, then projected back up to 11-12 in the 4-5 days leading up to the draft.

DraftExpress has Hans as NEVER going above 20th the entire 2008-09 season, including having him at 22nd in their final mock.

2) He was a worse option than Blair for the Nets? Not sure about that. Maybe.

3) He's a bust? Disagree completely. He's been a very good passer, rebounder and defender which is why I liked him and why any team should like him. The concern was his shooting which is why you had many people suggesting the Point Forward role for him instead.

I would have loved for the Pacers to get him, but he would have been a huge disaster in this system because his outside shooting hasn't been there yet.

His per36 for the last 4 games is at 7 assists, 5 rebounds. Still poor shooting but it's up to 40%. That's likely to be his make or break factor, can he get his FG% to 45. If so then he makes it, if not then probably not.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2010, 03:03 PM
That's just plain wrong. The Bulls offered both of their 1st round draft picks for Tyler on draft night. You are correct in saying he was INITIALLY tracked as a 20ish pick, BUT after the pre-draft works (particularly the private ones) his stock improved significantly, evidenced partly by the Bulls offer (which the Pacers in my opinion should have taken and I am as big of fan as Tyler as they come, but I think that was a horrible move on their part). The Nets looked at him seriously. Toronto was VERY interested in him as well, but on the advice of his agent he did not work out for them. A team is less inclined to pursue someone who has made it clear he would rather not play for him.

I'm not disagreeing with any of your evaluations, but the subtle statement that Indy was the only team interested in him is wrong. If anything Indy made less of a reach for him than the Bulls or Toronto attempted to do.
No they didn't. They did not make that offer, unless you have some inside GM info that we do not. They made an offer for HENDERSON. If he was there then they wanted to trade up for him and the Pacers seemed interested. When Henderson got picked that trade up offer was pulled.

His stock improved? For the loss, here you go.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyler-Hansbrough-288/mock-draft-history/

vnzla81
02-07-2010, 03:08 PM
No they didn't. They did not make that offer, unless you have some inside GM info that we do not. They made an offer for HENDERSON. If he was there then they wanted to trade up for him and the Pacers seemed interested. When Henderson got picked that trade up offer was pulled.

His stock improved? For the loss, here you go.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyler-Hansbrough-288/mock-draft-history/

just because Hans was expected to be pick in the 20th does not mean anything, all the mock drafts had Blair at 11th and he when all the way down to the second round.

IUfan4life
02-07-2010, 03:10 PM
I agree with this part...

I really would like to see McRoberts forced into the situation of having to step up and be the man..

It makes me sad, because if McBob actually got decent PT , we would probably have a chance at seeing him in the dunk contest during all star break..
I'd MUCH rather see him compete than Shannon Brown .

McBob would do very well in the dunk contest in my opinion ..
I'd LOVE to see McBob and Birdman have a go at it in the dunk competition ..




.

I can't help but disagree with this entire post

Shannon Brown is one of the most explosive dunkers in the league. Last time birdman was in the dunk contest he ruined the entire event. who really cares if he is in the dunk contest or not.

yes troy gets traded and Mcbob comes in and is our first option. Makes a ton of sense to me

JohnWild
02-07-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure if I understand what you were trying to say in the first place. I thought you were insinuating that Indy made some type of reach for Tyler. I was simply stating that Tyler would have been gone 3 picks later (I think Chicago was at 16) and that it wasn't inconceivable that he'd have been gone before Indy even picked. As I stated his stock went up (from the 20s you mentioned) when the workouts started; very similar to Blair when teams realized exactly how serious the ACL issues were. DraftExpress and sites like that become less accurate when workouts start as they don't know what teams are thinking after the private workouts about every player. I'm not validating any draft choices only pointing out that Indy was not alone in their interest and belief in Tyler. I'm not heading in any direction, its to early to do so; especially because of Tyler's unfortunate injuries.

Just for the hell of it if I was Indy I would have traded Tyler to Chicago. Then you could have drafted some nice combination such as Lawson and Blair.

JohnWild
02-07-2010, 03:26 PM
I thought there was news coverage on the Bulls offer, but either way rest assurred their was an offer made. I have no knowledge on the Henderson matter, but the Bulls did offer their 2 picks for Tyler on draft night (literally during the Pacers five minute period). If you watch draft night background you can actually see his agent Jeff Schwartz stand up and field some cell phone calls related to the matter during the few minutes before Tyler was chosen. Just because a draft website didn't predict these types of things happening doesn't make it a reality. They make plenty of mistakes and they don't have all the information. I don't see why you are arguing this point, I'm not disagreeing with anything but the simple fact that Indy was not alone in being interested in Tyler. In fact, teams like Chicago and Toronto appeared more interested in him and were willing to "give up more".

Lance George
02-07-2010, 03:36 PM
All the non-draft followers have talked themselves into other teams fighting to get to him, but that is total Pacers PR BS.
Rather or not teams were fighting for Legend, I don't know. What I do know is that reports said Hansbrough blew scout's minds in workouts and that the Nets were contemplating taking him at #11. Perhaps it's all one big conspiracy and Chad Ford is a part of the Pacer's P.R. team. Or perhaps Tyler Hansbrough really did kick *** in workouts and really did impress his way into the lottery.


He tracked at 20-22 for 3 years, then suddenly on draft night he was a 13th pick? Come on.

Hansbrough was never going in the 20s regardless of when he entered the draft. That's because he's much more impressive physically than people (including draft mockers) give him credit for, and which was proven with his (relative to expectations) fantastic pre-draft combine. He came out better than expected in nearly every area, including being over 6'9" in shoes (haters were claiming 6'7"). Combine this with his aforementioned mind-blowing workouts and the fact that he's proven to be productive and a winner, and the intelligent basketball fan understands why Hansbrough was a lottery pick.


As for Gerald Henderson... no idea. He wasn't that impressive at Duke and as we all know, he lead them nowhere. I had him tracked as a late 1st rounder. Looks like Larry Brown may have too. :laugh:

Doug
02-07-2010, 03:44 PM
Sheesh. Blair vs. Hansbrough again?

Haven't we covered this one roughly 100,000 times?

d_c
02-07-2010, 03:47 PM
Rather or not teams were fighting for Legend, I don't know.

Whether or not you're being serious whenever you use the word Legend, I don't know.

Peck
02-07-2010, 03:53 PM
Any talk about Blair on the Pacers is pure folly as long as Jim O'Brien is the coach.

I liked Blair coming in from what I read on here about him but I knew he would never see the floor for other than a few token min. that O'Brien felt forced to use him.

He is NOT a Jim O'Brien type player.

judicata
02-07-2010, 04:07 PM
3) He's a bust? Disagree completely. He's been a very good passer, rebounder and defender which is why I liked him and why any team should like him. The concern was his shooting which is why you had many people suggesting the Point Forward role for him instead.



This is why this conversation is a joke. TWill isn't a bust because he can get his shooting % up and his per36 numbers look good. Hans is awful because despite actual production, his shooting % is poor and apparently will never go anywhere.

You look at the kid with turd covered lenses. You trivialize his intangibles, fail to notice the fact that outside of his horrible shooting %, he is making plays and producing in other areas like rebounding. For Tyler, its all about his shooting %, with no room for improvement, no mitigation for the health issues and the lack of training camp. I don't think you can find a thread on this forum that has 3 posts about Hans without you ****ting on him.

Compare your analysis to Josh, who does less every time he hits the floor, has bad rebounding numbers at his position, has been in the league for two more years,and for everyone who isn't a homer, is barely a blip on the radar. But you praise his good dimensions, focus on intangibles, and point out how he can make it big if he fixes a few things.

You are not objective, you did not want Blair, and the guys you did want are remarkably bigger disappointments than Hans. Why are you so fixated on this issue?

Anthem
02-07-2010, 04:09 PM
1) Picked higher than expected? No, he tracked up quickly as the Big East wrapped up and in the conference tourney. He tracked 17th his JR year, dropped his SR year till he played up to the 13-14 range in April and May, slipped a bit in June, then projected back up to 11-12 in the 4-5 days leading up to the draft.
Yep. We heard plenty of chatter about Tyler moving up the board from multiple sources on the run up to the draft. If DraftExpress missed it, that's their bad.

Look, he wasn't my pick either (I wanted us to trade out of the draft entirely). But talking about where DraftExpress had him ranked is just silly. It's not a meaningful criteria, especially when the guy you were jocking all last season (TWill) also was picked well ahead of where he was projected for most of the previous season.

TWill didn't move up DE's board 10 spots because he became a different player, he moved up because they heard who was scouting him and who looked like they might pick him. Same thing happened with Tyler, but they missed it. That's their problem, not his.

And I say this as somebody who didn't (and still doesn't) like the pick.

Mr. Sobchak
02-07-2010, 04:46 PM
You are not objective, you did not want Blair, and the guys you did want are remarkably bigger disappointments than Hans. Why are you so fixated on this issue?

THIS.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=944990&postcount=45

:flirt:

Since86
02-08-2010, 12:12 PM
PS - Blair is on a rookie deal. Year 2 his knees go out. WHO GIVES A S***. Rookie deal ends and you are done with him. Tyler was not projected to be a major factor, 1 year in or 10. He was bench fodder.

I said this pre-draft, take Blair, get your 2-3 years of strong inside rebounding and force and then his career ends when the knees go. That's still the better choice, and that's worst case scenario.

Gotta think full picture on these things. It was very low-risk at 13th in that draft, at least if you were going to take a PF no matter what. There were no other big time PF prospects, as in starter possible.



If it doesn't matter if either player doesn't make it past year 2, then why the **** do you keep bashing this stupid topic every chance you get.

You've not said anything new on the situation for 4 months. GET OVER IT.

Putnam
02-08-2010, 12:25 PM
The way Blair is playing, ACLs appear to be overrated


Darn right. I've only got one, and some of my posts are excellent!



EDIT:
Though not nearly as excellent as Mr. Sobchak's stroll down memory lane:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=956473&postcount=62


.

Naptown_Seth
02-08-2010, 02:13 PM
If it doesn't matter if either player doesn't make it past year 2, then why the **** do you keep bashing this stupid topic every chance you get.

You've not said anything new on the situation for 4 months. GET OVER IT.
WORST CASE. WORST. Why take a guy with blah upside instead of a guy who proved he could POWER rebound at a starter caliber level when the WORST thing that can happen is you only get the power guy for a couple of cheap years?

It does matter. It's called spending money wisely and adding talent that can significantly improve a key area of need.




KNOCKING BLAIR
As for my knocks on Blair as linked above - CONTEXT, and you damn sure know it too. I was going up against people that were flipping out about how perfectly wonderful Blair was, not trying to say don't take him at all.

And if you follow it to the conclusion you see me changing my view on him as I get more familiar with him and begin to consider that he's "plays off" might have as much to do with his need to avoid foul trouble.

Plus, I'm not saying now he's Mr. Perfect. I'm saying he's doing what the Pacers needed, not that he ends every freaking need the team has. He's not Griffin, or what Griffin is supposed to be. He's a SOLID, but not spectacular pick at 13 for one of the 3 teams most in search of a power rebounder.

Blair did take plays off, for rest, foul worries, whatever. But he also had a skill that was 100% applicable to the NBA and I believe I said that as well.




TWILL - NOT A DOUBLE STANDARD. I didn't say Tyler was a flop already, I said that taking him instead of Blair was a big mistake. I also said that if TWill FG% is going to be a make or break for him as a pro. That means that I see his FG% as a dealbreaker and that if it continues he most certainly is a flop.

You guys think you're mad, look at it from my side. I'm not in here every other day posting threads like "Is TWill a shoe-in for the rookie game" or "Is TWill one of the draft steals" or anything remotely close to suggesting that somehow TWill is working out pretty well.

Why? Because so far TWill's FG% is keeping him from working out!!!

The minute I suggest TWill is playing great then you can tell me to STFU. Until then why don't you guys try toning down the "Hans is so wonderful" crap UNLESS YOU THINK TWILL IS ALSO GREAT.

I liked Twill as a PROSPECT. He's struggled as a pro player so far because of his shooting. Man up and say the same thing about Tyler and then we have no more threads with me complaining about his game.

Let's argue the same points.

Hans as great player so far, TWill as great player so far. No.
Hans as flop, Twill as flop. No.
Me starting threads or injecting into threads how strong TWill has been? Nope. People celebrating how good Tyler has been? Happens often.

Would I argue if someone said that Chase or Sam Young were better SG/SF picks than TWill so far, of course not. I'm not making that case, which is why someone like me isn't on the other side losing his s*** about it. The equivilant of me saying "they should have taken Blair" is someone saying the Next should have taken Young or Chase. I won't disagree with that right now.

TWill is literally considered the worst shooter in this rookie class, and he's outshooting Hans. And if you add in the factor of shooting relative to position, Hans is a disaster by PF FG% standards while TWill is just lagging. SF's can linger in the 42-43 range and stick around, that's about the same as a PF going at 48-49%.



OTHER PICKS
I liked Chase as a pick, especially on a trade down. He's doing fine. I also liked Sam Young, another PIT player that inititally I was concerned with on effort but ultimately I was convinced that he was a really nice sleeper to go after. He's also doing well.





HENDERSON and Larry Brown
I liked Henderson as a pick. We literally have no idea because Brown refuses to play him. If you want to stand by Larry Brown's choices on PT for rookies, or really any young players, then let's start the list up of other terrible players according to Larry Brown.
Here's three:

1) Jalen Rose
2) DJ Augustin
3) Raymond Felton

Of course since you see Brown's lack of playing time for Henderson as justification then by all means join me on the Stephen Jackson parade since Brown is given him MORE PLAYING TIME than Rick "love him no matter what" Carlisle. It's the first time in Jack's career that he's hit the 40 mpg mark (Rick gave him 35-36)

What's that? Oh, you don't like that Brown opinion so much any more. No kidding.

MLB007
02-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Darn right. I've only got one, and some of my posts are excellent!

LOL, I've only got one too. Can't play hoops without it hurting like hell though.
Chicago Bears lineman Roberto Garza has played 3 seasons for the Bears without discernable ACL's. (ouch)
Betcha Blair has a short career though. (hope not)

Sookie
02-08-2010, 02:22 PM
The Pacers were really not in the position to take Blair.

They had to pick the safe choice. They took the non injury prone (oops) guy, the guy with ACLs, the guy who is quite possibly one of the best college basketball players ever. They took the marketable player.

Tyler has some things to work on, but he'll end up..at worst a good sixth man with a long career. I mean, to be fair, there is no way to really "know" that, but at the same time the odds are much greater Tyler has a long career than Blair.

I really think, despite what's happened to Tyler, the Pacers made a good decision. And that in the long run the Tyler/AJ picks will end up better than the possible combo of Ty/Blair.

Blair was a fantasitc pick for the Spurs..who are trying to win a few more championships while they still can. He's not a good pick for a rebuilding team.

Naptown_Seth
02-08-2010, 02:45 PM
Due to a recommendation from a poster I really respect, I'm done with repeating points on this debate. I'd delete my last post but I feel like it's addressing multiple issues of misrepresentation of the core argument, and I'll let it sit as the final point.

This, like Jackson prior, are points that I'm not nearly as concerned with as the posting makes it seem. It's far more driven by posts that I see as either inappropriately too positive about the pick or too dismissive of the options that were there prior to the draft.

I guess it doesn't really matter. Let's let the players resolve the debate over the next 2 months and 2 seasons after. Then either I or someone else can bump this thread.




I will say that my early read on potential misses by me are TWill and Henderson, and to a lesser extent Lawson and Collison. I'm not hiding that fact, though just as it's true for Tyler or any other pick, it's going to take a couple of years to be sure, especially given some of the situations these guys are in.

indygeezer
02-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Sinus Infections can turn into Ear Infections.. Its my guess.

OH golly!!! DON'T EVER MENTION SINUS INFECTIONS AROUND THIS TEAM!!!

ksuttonjr76
02-08-2010, 11:41 PM
Wow. You all are really fighting this battle between Blair and Hansbrough.

AlexAustin
02-09-2010, 01:03 AM
Why does Blair even get mentioned here? And why does Seth dislike Tyler so much and have unconditional love for McRoberts?

IndyPacer
02-09-2010, 05:08 AM
There's just no way I would have taken Blair as a lottery pick and guaranteed contract with no ACLs. It's nice to be able to play hindsight genius on an internet discussion board when you risk nothing, but it's quite another to be in Bird's position. There's no way of knowing how long Blair's legs will hold up because there's not much precedent for this type of condition in pro basketball. It's premature to discuss Tyler's long-term value because no one could have predicted his current health problems and he clearly hasn't had a chance to play much at this point. I am happy with Bird's selection an believe Tyler will eventually be a productive member of the team.

Anthem
02-09-2010, 07:56 AM
There's just no way I would have taken Blair as a lottery pick and guaranteed contract with no ACLs.
Since Seth has decided to leave the conversation alone, I'll just pitch in for him here and point out that nobody has suggested the Pacers should have taken Blair with their lotto pick.

Thesterovic
02-09-2010, 10:18 AM
I've learned that with the Pacers, you have to expect everything to go wrong and stretch out longer than it should. Whether with injuries, games, or trades. You kind of have to expect injuries to last the rest of the season, trades to never happen, and expect to see something awful every single game.

AlexAustin
02-09-2010, 11:48 AM
After getting blocked 8 times in his 2 game stay in LA, DeJuan Blair now has been blocked 36 times in his last 36 games, but all we ever heard from Seth was Tyler having block against a game average, and now on the season they have basically the same Block per shot average but one player missed camp.

naptownmenace
02-09-2010, 11:56 AM
If we trade Murphy, we HAVE to take back a PF from the Cavs. This is the trade that I want, but I want Hickson as the 1st choice.

I see people saying this a lot. Maybe I'm not seeing what other people are seeing in JJ Hickson but he seems like a terrible player with very little upside. I look at him and all I see is Dickie Simpkins part two.