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View Full Version : post game thread/ TJ Ford is back



vnzla81
02-05-2010, 10:33 PM
Ben Gordon 10 mill a year

Charlie Villanueva 7mill a year

Richard Hamilton 12mil a year

Tayshaun Prince 11 mil a year

watching the pacers beating the crap out of Detroit PRICELESS...........:)

Hicks
02-05-2010, 10:37 PM
I didn't realize Prince has died and come back as a zombie. Bizarre to witness that given his previously super-solid career for YEARS.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 10:39 PM
I didn't realize Prince has died and come back as a zombie. Bizarre to witness that given his previously super-solid career for YEARS.

I know, him and Hamilton look pretty bad, their value is closer to Dun than Murphy I think.

odeez
02-05-2010, 10:59 PM
It amazes me how far the Pistons have fallen! It all started when they traded away Billups. And yes it is priceless to see us beat them!

jhondog28
02-05-2010, 11:02 PM
Ben Gordon 10 mill a year

Charlie Villanueva 7mill a year

Richard Hamilton 12mil a year

Tayshaun Prince 11 mil a year

watching the pacers beating the crap out of Detroit PRICELESS...........:)

Oh no when did the Pacers start beating up Detroit again...sorry couldnt resist...but to be honest it doesnt matter cause Detroit will some how win the lottery and get Wall..just you watch. Then KStat will be all over this board haha

Infinite MAN_force
02-05-2010, 11:04 PM
You know if we could get any sort of value in a trade involving earl watson, I woulden't mind seeing TJ backup AJ Price for the rest of the season. It would be nice if we got some sort of use out of that 9 million dollars a season we are paying him, and watson is not back next year.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 11:09 PM
You know if we could get any sort of value in a trade involving earl watson, I woulden't mind seeing TJ backup AJ Price for the rest of the season. It would be nice if we got some sort of use out of that 9 million dollars a season we are paying him, and watson is not back next year.

you are right, I hope they do that and at least get a second round pick for him.

Hicks
02-05-2010, 11:09 PM
Looking at the standings, we could easily stay put (more or less) and pick 8th.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 11:13 PM
Looking at the standings, we could easily stay put (more or less) and pick 8th.

that sucks:(

Bball
02-05-2010, 11:15 PM
Kstat isn't around as much these days... and the Pistons are in the crapper....

Coincidence?

travmil
02-05-2010, 11:15 PM
But 8th in this draft might as well be a late second rounder. You have Wall, then a dropoff to Evan Turner, then you fall off a gigantic cliff to everyone else.

Hicks
02-05-2010, 11:19 PM
But 8th in this draft might as well be a late second rounder. You have Wall, then a dropoff to Evan Turner, then you fall off a gigantic cliff to everyone else.

Well, then I don't see how 8th would bother you in that scenario given we were never likely to creep up to 2 or 1.

travmil
02-05-2010, 11:21 PM
No it doesn't bother me that we can't get 2 or 1. What DOES bother me is committing guaranteed first round rookie scale money to a player that would fall out of the first round in the majority of drafts.

MLB007
02-05-2010, 11:23 PM
It amazes me how far the Pistons have fallen! It all started when they traded away Billups. And yes it is priceless to see us beat them!

The signs were all there before they traded Billups. They were/are an old team that's lost a step everywhere. But Billups IS one of the most under-appreciated players in the league I think.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 11:24 PM
Well, then I don't see how 8th would bother you in that scenario given we were never likely to creep up to 2 or 1.

yeah but at least a top five, if they are going to suck they need to suck more

graphic-er
02-05-2010, 11:29 PM
They got 9 games left in the month, 3 against the bulls and 2 against the Bucks, and 4 against the west. They need to win out against the bulls and the bucks and pick up a win against the west teams. Its a big IF. But all I'm saying is that the playoff push starts now or never.

MagicRat
02-06-2010, 12:01 AM
I thought TJ played with a little different FREEDOM!..........

http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/tjfreedom.jpg

McKeyFan
02-06-2010, 12:04 AM
Heckuava game for the P's.

Heck no, I'll stick with Watson and Price.

Some really good inside-outside offense when AJ and Roy were in the game.

Danny had a better mid range game tonight.

Rush is getting more and more solid.

It seems forever since we led a game by 30.

Sookie
02-06-2010, 12:09 AM
Heckuava game for the P's.

Heck no, I'll stick with Watson and Price.

Some really good inside-outside offense when AJ and Roy were in the game.

Danny had a better mid range game tonight.

Rush is getting more and more solid.

It seems forever since we led a game by 30.

Roy Rush and Price seem to all have good chemistry.

Almost every time down the court AJ would either pass to Roy or try and set up Rush.

It's good that the young guys play well together.

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2010, 12:30 AM
that sucks:(
8th will be fine. Maybe if you really want a PG or SF, but otherwise 6th through 14th is all about the same. Favors, Monroe, Lawal, Patterson, Cousins, Davis, Booker, Brackins, Sanders....just a truckload of PF types headed to the NBA. I doubt they all pan out, but man if even half of them do that class will be something to see battle it out in 3-4 years, especially if you throw in B-Easy and Griffin.



When I see this kind of playing time and that starting lineup I can't help but think "there, now was that so hard".

I know it's Detroit, so you don't read too much into the win, but it was substantial and obviously wasn't a loss. The Pacers have had no problem struggling against bad teams too, you can't assume those wins.

Starters
Price, Rush, Granger, PF draft pick, Hibbert
Bench TJ (or other, Watson this year), DJ, McBob, Tyler
It's not that bad, just needs a couple of bumps. Maybe a really outstanding wing scorer on the bench, and that PF draft pick this year.

Josh got 6 minutes, so did Diener, so did Solo, TJ got some quality bench minutes. And JOB still got to have Troy start and play 32 minutes. They didn't even have to go ultra small.

I could be pretty happy seeing variations of that rotation the rest of the year.

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2010, 12:42 AM
No it doesn't bother me that we can't get 2 or 1. What DOES bother me is committing guaranteed first round rookie scale money to a player that would fall out of the first round in the majority of drafts.
Are you watching these college teams play?

I'm not saying team savers, but if Taj Gibson and A Moute can play PF in the NBA then we have about 10 more dudes at least as good as them coming out this year.





Sookie, I think you and a few others at least have been on that same view as me regarding Rush and Roy having Price as their PG. Price and Roy looked like insta-teammates this summer, like they were made to be out there together. That's when I stopped hoping Price would make it and knew he would instead.

Just like I'd be the first to say that TJ loves to play with Troy, they work their PnR/Pop and it usually goes fairly well for them.

gummy
02-06-2010, 12:45 AM
Brandon: 16 points on 7-of-12 shooting (2-of-3 from the arc), five assists, four rebounds, two steals and 1 block.

I wholeheartedly agree that Price-Rush-Hibbert have some good chemistry out there. Makes me happy.

Dr. Awesome
02-06-2010, 12:53 AM
No it doesn't bother me that we can't get 2 or 1. What DOES bother me is committing guaranteed first round rookie scale money to a player that would fall out of the first round in the majority of drafts.

...you were being serious?

BlueNGold
02-06-2010, 01:03 AM
I didn't realize Prince has died and come back as a zombie. Bizarre to witness that given his previously super-solid career for YEARS.

Prince and Hamilton have not changed. The Pistons chose to tear it down and in the process moved away from a winning formula....that is, defense.

It actually started when Ben Wallace moved on. Wallace and Wallace were an absolute terror in the paint. It got much worse when Billups and Sheed headed out. They are now a shell.

This is why bigs and your PG are the most important pieces on a team. It's also why interior defense is critical to success. You can always find good enough shooters to score the ball. It's more difficult getting a PG with leadership and playmaking skills...and good defensive bigs to patrol the paint.

I know Iverson would hurt Detroit....but there was a decent financial reason for that one. I also knew Charlie V and Ben G would hurt them. I have no explanation why the Pistons acquired those players beyond utter mismanagement. What's funny is, when we acquired players like that (Murphleavy), at least we had a gun to our heads...

Sookie
02-06-2010, 01:11 AM
Sookie, I think you and a few others at least have been on that same view as me regarding Rush and Roy having Price as their PG. Price and Roy looked like insta-teammates this summer, like they were made to be out there together. That's when I stopped hoping Price would make it and knew he would instead.

Just like I'd be the first to say that TJ loves to play with Troy, they work their PnR/Pop and it usually goes fairly well for them.

I think quite a few players like playing with him Dun, Danny, Dahntay specifically..Although I'm not sure whether they like playing with him, or they like not playing with TJ.

Anyway I think Rush, AJ, and Roy all like playing the same style, which is different from the above. Playing the AJ to Roy game, where Rush "fills in" is how all three of them want to play, and it's good style of play. I would bet that Tyler would fit in very well with them too.

Price was always a kid who overcame long odds. Heck, at one point it was long odds he'd be alive. I knew he'd make the team. Knew he'd probably contribute or at least should if the coach wasn't a complete fool, and honestly I think he'll be a starter, not because Indiana doesn't have anyone better, but because he'll be a starting caliber point guard. There was a point, where he was playing his best at Uconn..after the brain problem and before the ACL..where he was just plain special. One of the best point guards I've seen at controlling the game. He could score and distribute. He knew his teammates well. Extremely high basketball IQ. And would almost always make the "big shot" of the game, which would lead to a Uconn win. (He quite oftend did that after the ACL his senior year too) and during that stretch, he was only at the level he was in highschool. Which is what is so good about him in the pros. He never, with the exception of mental aspects and shooting, was able to improve his game in college. He just had to keep trying to get back to his highschool form.


BTW. I feel like I'm bashing TJ quite a bit tonight. I don't mean to. He had a nice game. I personally hate the way he plays, at least in this system..as a point guard. And I think the players don't like it either. That being said. He seems like a good guy. He cheers for his team and has been beyond classy in the situation he's in. But I think, if we're only playing 2 PGs, the guy is behind Earl and AJ.

pianoman
02-06-2010, 01:17 AM
Very good game tonight! There is still hope!!!!!


By the way, there is an excellent game on espn DEN VS. LAL

Justin Tyme
02-06-2010, 01:34 AM
[QUOTE=travmil;955848]

But 8th in this draft might as well be a late second rounder. /QUOTE]


That's absurd!

Justin Tyme
02-06-2010, 01:43 AM
What DOES bother me is committing guaranteed first round rookie scale money to a player that would fall out of the first round in the majority of drafts.


I have yet to read anywhere that this is such a poor draft as you seem to think. Got anything in print to backup your opinion?

Justin Tyme
02-06-2010, 01:51 AM
There is still hope!!!!!


Sorry, that hope ran out along time ago when reality set in.

PaceBalls
02-06-2010, 01:57 AM
Very good game tonight! There is still hope!!!!!


By the way, there is an excellent game on espn DEN VS. LAL

Yeah I just watched the end of that game. Billups is amazing. That was total pwnage by the Nuggets. They are looking damn good, without Carmello even. I think they are going to win it all this year. Kind of ironic seeing how Detroit got blown out by the Pacers tonight and Billups had a career night in the Nuggets victory over the Lakers.

I wonder if we could somehow get Nene in the offseason.

geetee
02-06-2010, 02:46 AM
I'll give props to TJ, he played well tonight. However, I want Watson and Price to continue as the top 2 PG's. When TJ hits a couple shots, he tends to become over confident. Over confidence and TJ does not equal a good thing. Tonight he was able for the most part to keep himself in check and play well... but this is probably only because he hasn't played for a long time. Continue to play him and my belief is that he'll slowly fall back into his old habits.

pianoman
02-06-2010, 03:12 AM
Sorry, that hope ran out along time ago when reality set in.

The REALITY is there is still a chance for them to make the playoffs. Although it wouldn't be ideal for the franchise, it would give the young guys experience. There's still a TON of basketball to be played. A lot can happen in the next 2 months..

...but the chances of the Pacers in the playoffs are very slim

S.R.E.C.A.P
02-06-2010, 04:47 AM
strange. Where is kstat? ;)

Justin Tyme
02-06-2010, 08:43 AM
The REALITY is there is still a chance for them to make the playoffs. Although it wouldn't be ideal for the franchise, it would give the young guys experience. There's still a TON of basketball to be played. A lot can happen in the next 2 months..

...but the chances of the Pacers in the playoffs are very slim


I have a chance to win the lottery, reality is the chance is very slim. Bottom line is the Pacers aren't going to the playoffs, and people who think they are aren't being realistic. The Pacers win a couple of games in a row and all of a sudden the Pacers become playoff contenders. The Pacers are 6 games out of 8th place with 32 games left to play, so have you taken a look at the schedule for the rest of the year? 16 of those games are against teams playing better than 500 ball and are in the playoffs as of now. Milwaukee is only a game out in 9th place. 2 of the 7, 8, and 9 teams would have to falter and the Pacers would have to win a high % of their remaining games to even have a chance of making the playoffs. Reality is that is not going to happen.

Putnam
02-06-2010, 09:15 AM
Gee, Pacers win and the postgame thread hardly mentions it until pianoman's and geetee's posts on the second page.

I think it is a mistake to project too much back and forth. This game didn't impact the Pacers draft chances much at all. And it didn't affect their playoff hopes much, either. And it didn't showcase Ford for a trade and it didn't prove that Brandon Rush is legit (WETM) and it didn't show that Indianapolis fans won't support the Pacers vis a vis the Coats.

All it was was a win. I've heard it said that that's the great thing about sports: You play to win the game. And tonight, the Pacers did. Plain and simple.


There's still a lot wrong in Pacers land and its still going to take a long time and a lot of changes to fix it. But tonight, the Pacers won the game. This game was like a bite of sausage to Ivan Denisovich.

sportfireman
02-06-2010, 09:25 AM
strange. Where is kstat? ;)


:laugh:

BlueNGold
02-06-2010, 10:15 AM
strange. Where is kstat? ;)

He stayed up late watching Chauncey score 39 points and 8 assists as the Nuggets beat the Lakers. The old man had a career high with 9 of 13 from Three. I think they could have used that production this evening. In the meantime, Allen Iverson got a DNP. How many teams has Allen played for in the last couple years?

BTW, it is beautiful (for a Pacer fan) to see Ben Gordon and Charlie V in a Piston uniform. Too bad Charlie got a DNP last night.

graphic-er
02-06-2010, 12:20 PM
I think the 8th pick would be just fine, if everyone thinks this draft is weak outside Wall, then that means some teams will elect to trade down with us, swapping picks for cash. So maybe a top 5 pick is attainable no matter where we finish.

MyFavMartin
02-06-2010, 12:26 PM
So I guess Roy is back as a starter alongside Troy and small ball is gone after Lester shows he could do JOB's JOB?

the jaddler
02-06-2010, 12:28 PM
i dont care where we pick or who we pick as long as its some good talent!!! but then again it doesnt matter as long as JOB is our coach.....

d_c
02-06-2010, 02:07 PM
He stayed up late watching Chauncey score 39 points and 8 assists as the Nuggets beat the Lakers. The old man had a career high with 9 of 13 from Three. I think they could have used that production this evening. In the meantime, Allen Iverson got a DNP. How many teams has Allen played for in the last couple years?

BTW, it is beautiful (for a Pacer fan) to see Ben Gordon and Charlie V in a Piston uniform. Too bad Charlie got a DNP last night.

I like Dumars and have long admired his work as GM, but he's gotten this current Pistons' rebuild off to a poor start.

Doesn't have so much to do with the current record (which actually helps them) they have as it does with not trading Prince and Rip Hamilton this past summer, when they still had pretty good value. They obviously didn't fit in with their future plans and they had good trade value and that's when Dumars could have gotten something pretty good for them. Their value has since dropped.

I don't understand signing Villanueva. Gordon, yes, but not Charlie V. I think $35M for him is better than $59M for Murphy or $50M for Dunleavy, but it's still not a deal I'd make. I just don't think that guy is really any good. He never struck me as someone who is a difference maker. I would've saved my ammo (cap space) for another day rather than commit myself to a player like Villanueva.

The good news for them is they have some cap flexibility coming up along with a high pick, but I don't understand how keeping Prince and Hamilton matter much in a rebuilding plan.

BlueNGold
02-06-2010, 09:18 PM
I like Dumars and have long admired his work as GM, but he's gotten this current Pistons' rebuild off to a poor start.

Doesn't have so much to do with the current record (which actually helps them) they have as it does with not trading Prince and Rip Hamilton this past summer, when they still had pretty good value. They obviously didn't fit in with their future plans and they had good trade value and that's when Dumars could have gotten something pretty good for them. Their value has since dropped.

I don't understand signing Villanueva. Gordon, yes, but not Charlie V. I think $35M for him is better than $59M for Murphy or $50M for Dunleavy, but it's still not a deal I'd make. I just don't think that guy is really any good. He never struck me as someone who is a difference maker. I would've saved my ammo (cap space) for another day rather than commit myself to a player like Villanueva.

The good news for them is they have some cap flexibility coming up along with a high pick, but I don't understand how keeping Prince and Hamilton matter much in a rebuilding plan.

I see Gordon as a player who can get you points and hit clutch shots....so maybe I should go easy on him. But this all comes down to winning...and building a contender. I think as much offense as he gets you, he hurts your chances to contend....very much like Troy...although Gordon is a better asset.

Ben Gordon's contract runs another 4 years and he is paid like a starter...a well paid starter...but in the end, you don't want him to start. He's simply a liability on defense. Now, the only way I put him out there is at SG where I am loaded with defenders at the other positions. Only in that case would I want to acquire him...because otherwise he just retricts you from building a contender.

That's the problem in Detroit, btw. They've subtracted several great defensive players and plugged in guys like Gordon and Charlie V. I remember back in the day when Hamilton was the weak link on the Piston's D. Well, that is no longer true...he's average...and this is the prime reason the Pistons are bad.

Fool's gold is the best way to describe Gordon in most situations. Again, if he had Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Billups and Prince around him...it would be different....but 3 of those 4 are long gone...and they were each virtually irreplaceable.