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View Full Version : TJ's Banishment



Mr. Sobchak
02-05-2010, 09:33 PM
This is something that has been bothering me for awhile now and I wanted to bring it up. Before TJ was benched I saw a lot posts complaining how he would only get 1-2 assists per game. Also, everyone always complains how TJ is a scoring guard and not a creator, etc etc...

While TJ does call his own number quite a bit, could it be that the offense that Jim runs is just not conducive to high numbers of assists? AJ is only averaging 1.7 assists per game and Earl is averaging about 4. TJ has had 4 seasons with 6+ assists per game and a career high of 18 assists. I remember watching him with Milwauakee and thinking he was an all star caliber point guard.

Now I am going to preference my point with this: TJ was not playing well this year with his poor shooting and sometimes selfish play. Did he deserve to come off of the bench? Yes. But did he really deserve to get banished completely?

I watch our games and see our offense struggle to score and I think we could really use TJ in these situtions. My biggest problem is that we are not using TJ correctly. I understand that O'Brien wants to play a certain way, but can't he tweak his game plan to cater to players strengths? When TJ is in why don't we allow him to play his game? Put the ball in his hands and run more ball screens and pick and rolls. He is good in those type of situations. (Well he was in Mil and Tor at least...)

I know ChicagoJ will disagree with me, but I thought TJ was a damn good player with the Bucks and Raptors and was excited when we got him. I think the whole Horford incident has really had a negative effect on his career. He doesn't play as fast has he used to and take it to the rim as much.

Do you guys think that his banishment would be related to the fact that he has a player option coming up after this season? Do you think that they are trying to discourage him to not pick it up (which isn't likely either way)?

Just some food for thought...

ksuttonjr76
02-05-2010, 09:40 PM
It's not in JOB's nature to design plays for a player's strength.

Sookie
02-05-2010, 09:42 PM
AJ's averaging 2.2 assists since he got to actually play time..and he's still getting about ten minutes less per game than TJ got.

But I really don't think it was about the stats. It was about watching Ford play. He ball dominates, he took terrible shots, turned the ball over too much ect..and the offense just plain stunk with him in.

I think he could have played Head's role. But at the same time, Head could hit the three..and we know which one JOB will pick.

Hicks
02-05-2010, 09:42 PM
Poor TJ play + Earl Watson + Wanting to see how good AJ might be in real games = TJ's benching. It was never a "banishment."

cdash
02-05-2010, 09:42 PM
I've watched too many bonehead plays by him to jump back on his bandwagon. I will say one thing though: He handled this demotion really, really well.

chrisjacobs7
02-05-2010, 09:44 PM
I've always liked TJ and thought he had the potential to be a great point guard. His play wasn't that great at the beginning of the season, but I don't understand why he got the banishment. I would've understood not starting, getting less minutes, etc... but he was never bad enough to deserve not playing at all. I'm hoping he has a couple good games with Watson out and can show JOB he deserves some playing time.

Whether or not you agree with TJ's banishment, I think we can all agree it's helped out a lot in terms of getting AJ more time.

Mr. Sobchak
02-05-2010, 09:45 PM
Poor TJ play + Earl Watson + Wanting to see how good AJ might be in real games = TJ's benching. It was never a "banishment."

Of course, but does that really mean 0 MPG? Its like it has to be either all or nothing and I don't get that.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 09:49 PM
Of course, but does that really mean 0 MPG? Its like it has to be either all or nothing and I don't get that.

he was not shooting the three well and for that he was benched, the guy could not stretch the floor. Just look at it this way, who are the players on the bench? Mcbench, Solo, Ford and Diener, only one of those players can shoot the three.

Hicks
02-05-2010, 10:00 PM
Of course, but does that really mean 0 MPG? Its like it has to be either all or nothing and I don't get that.

Usually you just play 2 PGs. And no, I don't count Luther Head in that group.

O'Brien has stated he feels it would be disrespectful to TJ to play him only in garbage time, and anyone can feel free to disagree with that, but it's his call.

Dr. Awesome
02-05-2010, 10:07 PM
TJ could be a good PG as long as he has a good coach. I could see him playing very, very well for a coach like Larry Brown. However, O'Brien doesn't control his players, he lets them play how they want. When TJ is not on a leash, he is terrible, but if held under control I believe he could be an effective PG.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 10:11 PM
TJ could be a good PG as long as he has a good coach. I could see him playing very, very well for a coach like Larry Brown. However, O'Brien doesn't control his players, he lets them play how they want. When TJ is not on a leash, he is terrible, but if held under control I believe he could be an effective PG.

I don't agree with this, I actually think the opposite, JOB is always calling plays and screaming like a crazy clown everytime, he calls almost every play, he even call most of the defensive plays.

Sookie
02-05-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't agree with this, I actually think the opposite, JOB is always calling plays and screaming like a crazy clown everytime, he calls almost every play, he even call most of the defensive plays.

Yup, it's the style of play.

But honestly, earlier this season TJ Ford was about the worst starting point guards I've ever seen. And I've seen quite a bit of bad ones.

He doesn't have a point guard mentality, he has a scoring one.

Scoring point guard off the bench, sure..but if he's missing, he'll kill you.

Dr. Awesome
02-05-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't agree with this, I actually think the opposite, JOB is always calling plays and screaming like a crazy clown everytime, he calls almost every play, he even call most of the defensive plays.

He let Tinsley shoot it 15 straight times one game.....15. Thats not control. If I'm a coach and a player is sinking me like that, I pull him out after 3 bad shots...if I'm being nice. Down the stretch like that, 1 or 2 would likely do it.

vnzla81
02-05-2010, 10:25 PM
He let Tinsley shoot it 15 straight times one game.....15. Thats not control. If I'm a coach and a player is sinking me like that, I pull him out after 3 bad shots...if I'm being nice. Down the stretch like that, 1 or 2 would likely do it.

the thing is that JOB was the one guy calling the plays, against phoenix he was making the same call, isolating Tinsley with Marion and of course we know what was the result.

Infinite MAN_force
02-05-2010, 10:50 PM
People need to figure out what they want. A lot of people were complaining before that despite getting praise as "getting the best of our vets" AJ Price was not getting playing time, well what else would you do?

If Earl Watson was outplaying TJ, and AJ Price was playing well enough in practice to warrant a look, than the only logical conclusion is TJ Ford hits the bench.

There is no grand conspiracy here, there was never a "banishment", TJ was NOT getting the job done, and the coach decided we had better options. It is THAT SIMPLE. I hate this coach as much as the next guy, but I just don't see any basis for criticism here. It is one of the better moves he made all season.

speakout4
02-05-2010, 11:33 PM
There is no grand conspiracy here, there was never a "banishment", TJ was NOT getting the job done, and the coach decided we had better options. It is THAT SIMPLE. I hate this coach as much as the next guy, but I just don't see any basis for criticism here. It is one of the better moves he made all season.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
Even McRob gets some time once in a while but....
TJ gets not a minute in 18 games and it's not banishment? It's respect! WOW!

jeffg-body
02-05-2010, 11:59 PM
Could giving TJ minutes again be part of a way to showcase him a little bit up to the trade deadline. He has fresh legs now and did do some good things.

HOOPFANATIC
02-06-2010, 12:50 AM
T.J was banished for REFUSING to shoot the three. Go to NBA.com to see he only was taking 1 or 2 a game. Earl is averaging at least 5.

ChicagoJ
02-06-2010, 01:10 AM
Benched. B-e-n-c-h-e-d.

Not the same thing as Banished.

Ask Tinsley.

Good grief, people.

I've seen better players get benched for playing better than Ford was playing. Yeesh.

Sookie
02-06-2010, 01:25 AM
Could giving TJ minutes again be part of a way to showcase him a little bit up to the trade deadline. He has fresh legs now and did do some good things.

No. The team still wants to win.

If you play Diener and not Ford, you either have to Play AJ 35+ minutes..with a back to back...which is good to do to a Rookie that is getting his first ever start.

Or play them even minutes, which probably means you're conceeding the game.

Ford's not great..but he's much better than Diener.

Mr. Sobchak
02-06-2010, 04:17 AM
OK OK...banishment is the wrong word. But I think of banishment when you can't get ANY minutes in 18 straight games...He was completely shut down and I don't exactly know why or necessarily agree.

Kemo
02-06-2010, 05:47 AM
Benched. B-e-n-c-h-e-d.

Not the same thing as Banished.

Ask Tinsley.

Good grief, people.

I've seen better players get benched for playing better than Ford was playing. Yeesh.


WELL..... according to an article on this last game vs Pistons ...
IT SAYS THIS ................


http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_100205.html




Rookie A.J. Priced started his first game at point guard (Earl Watson was out, attending his grandmother's funeral), joining second-year starters Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush. But the night wasn't all about the young guys. Veteran T.J. Ford, banished to the end of the bench since Dec. 30, played well in his first appearance since then, scoring 11 points with five assists.



That's right it says "B-a-n-i-s-h-e-d".................

.
.
"Banished"


Not the same thing as Benched

LOL



.
.

NapTonius Monk
02-06-2010, 08:43 AM
http://www.jamaicans.com/blog/wp-content/redstripe_man.jpg

Hooray trade value!

speakout4
02-06-2010, 11:11 AM
WELL..... according to an article on this last game vs Pistons ...
IT SAYS THIS ................


http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_100205.html







That's right it says "B-a-n-i-s-h-e-d".................

.
.
"Banished"


Not the same thing as Benched

LOL



.
.
With JOB there is always going to be a player who is severely in the doghouse. Last year Tinsley, this year TJ, and next year to be determined.

ChicagoJ
02-06-2010, 11:42 AM
WELL..... according to an article on this last game vs Pistons ...
IT SAYS -snip-


"...banised to the end of the bench"






That's right it says "B-a-n-i-s-h-e-d".................

.
.
"Banished"


Not the same thing as Benched

LOL



.
.

Did you even read the whole sentence?

"banished to the end of the bench" is the same thing as "benched".

:box:

:D

speakout4
02-06-2010, 11:57 AM
Did you even read the whole sentence?

"banished to the end of the bench" is the same thing as "benched".

:box:

:D
Did you see the verb banished?

Did you see the verb benched or was it the preposition-- "of the bench"?:D:D

ChicagoJ
02-06-2010, 02:39 PM
:lol:

This can go on forever!

Kemo
02-06-2010, 03:08 PM
haha I am just messin with you Chicago J ... but it really does say that.. I was just being funny while refuting your quote.. :D