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ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 10:22 AM
If JOB got extended next season, and the players suddenly starting demanding to be traded? Otherwise, do they need to stop whining, and just adapt to JOB's system?

Putnam
02-04-2010, 10:50 AM
If you take the paycheck you ought to do what is expected. There's no reason NBA players should be different. Most people have experience in situations where they know their boss is giving them bad instructions some, most or all of the time.

Of course, other people have the option of quitting. NBA players don't. But they have themselves to thank for that. For another year, anyway.

.

KnicksRGarbage
02-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Man, it must realllllly suck to play a certain way you don't like to and get paid millions to do it.

Oh the humanity!

chrisjacobs7
02-04-2010, 11:13 AM
If JOB gets extended to come back next year I'll be the first at Conseco with a pitchfork...

Will Galen
02-04-2010, 11:42 AM
If JOB gets extended to come back next year I'll be the first at Conseco with a pitchfork...

J'B has already been extended for next year. He's talking about the year after which would be after the rebuild is over.

I would say there's little chance of that happening at the moment.

ChicagoJ
02-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Will brings up a good point.

Many have assumed that JO'B's extension for next year was to prevent "lame duck" status this year. I'm not sure many people actually expect him back next season -- some of us view that extension as his "walkaway" amount after this season.

But what if he is back to coach the team next season? He probably would get an extension for 2011-2012 to (a) prevent lame-duck status (again) and (b) to represent a rollforward of the walk-away amount after the 2010-2011 season.

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 12:12 PM
If you take the paycheck you ought to do what is expected. There's no reason NBA players should be different. Most people have experience in situations where they know their boss is giving them bad instructions some, most or all of the time.

Of course, other people have the option of quitting. NBA players don't. But they have themselves to thank for that. For another year, anyway.

.

I was just ready to say that. If I don't like my job and leadership, I can quit and get a new job. Hence, that's why I asked would you support the players if they demanded to be traded which is the only thing that they can do. Personally, I wouldn't be mad at them a single bit.

I thought JOB was only extended for this season, and Indiana has the option to pick him up next season?

Will Galen
02-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Will brings up a good point.

Many have assumed that JO'B's extension for next year was to prevent "lame duck" status this year. I'm not sure many people actually expect him back next season -- some of us view that extension as his "walkaway" amount after this season.

But what if he is back to coach the team next season? He probably would get an extension for 2011-2012 to (a) prevent lame-duck status (again) and (b) to represent a rollforward of the walk-away amount after the 2010-2011 season.

Right now I think the Pacers will start out next season with O'B as coach. Most everyone will know the system next year and everyone should be healthy. If the Pacers start out over .500 he will continue as coach. If not, I think Lester Conner will take over as coach the rest of the year as a try out period.

The thing is I really don't care who coaches until the rebuild is over. Right now I think continuing as is is the plan because it gets us a higher draft pick.

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Man, it must realllllly suck to play a certain way you don't like to and get paid millions to do it.

Oh the humanity!

Some players are not always about the money. Just because they make millions of dollars, that doesn't mean they sold their souls and human respect to the devil. I was in the minority camp who thought it was okay for Ron Artest to run into the stands to have a conversation with the fan who threw the cup.

Naptown_Seth
02-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Name me any other job where people happily accept a horrible or unpleasant workplace just because there is some other job in the world that pays a lot less.

Dear EVERY FREAKING AMERICAN, STFU about your job because you make more than the kid in the 3rd world sweat shop.

It's all relative for the win.


Asking for a trade is the NBA player's version of CareerBuilder.

You hate your $60,000 job because your boss calls you an a'hole every day and no matter how well you perform your job your coworkers all shun you and look down upon you.

You come home, put your resume up on Monster or CB, and it generates an automated response that says "sorry, can't help you, you're a selfish jerk because you could be digging ditches for 15,000 instead, you knew what you signed up for and no place is going to be perfect".



BTW, all the major sports leagues are virtual monopolies. They aren't competing companies anymore than one McDonald's competes with the other one 5 blocks away. They are FRANCHISES of the same company. For chrissake they REVENUE SHARE. Wendy's ain't sending profits over to Buger King.

Imagine this, the ABA exists at a level that it can pay somewhere in the park of the NBA. You are unhappy with the NBA. You quit that job and go take one with the ABA instead.

This basically happened specifically because players did like some of the workplace aspects of the ABA vs the NBA. More uptempo play, dunking, bigger focus on fun and entertainment.


But working for the NBA, NFL or NBA is worse than being a highly paid OS designer for Microsoft. Where else ya gonna go if you want to be paid to do that job? Even Fed Ex guys can cross the street to DHL, UPS or even the USPS, let alone smaller carriers and delivery specialists.

Trophy
02-04-2010, 12:47 PM
I think to get any kind of team chemistry going, the players should always try to adapt to the coach's system no matter what it is.

Shade
02-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Stop whining? I don't feel the players are whining right now. Hell, I'm actually proud that they haven't flat-out thrown fits in the media eye, because Lord knows I would have by now.

Jim is not the only problem, but he is the biggest problem. He's just simply not a good coach.

Naptown_Seth
02-04-2010, 01:01 PM
I think to get any kind of team chemistry going, the players should always try to adapt to the coach's system no matter what it is.
What if they already did?

There is such a thing as bad leadership. Leave JOB out of this mix for a second, somewhere out there is someone asking others to do something that's not very bright. Usually in those cases the smart ones get tired of it and either take over or get out.

Isn't it possible that LAST YEAR was the "we'll do it your way" season with everyone dialed in?

Also when you look at Dun's career I think people put too much emphasis on his career year here 2 years ago when talking about "if only we had the full team all healthy". They virtually had that last year, and even Dun's offensive numbers look fairly decent during the time he played.

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Name me any other job where people happily accept a horrible or unpleasant workplace just because there is some other job in the world that pays a lot less.

Dear EVERY FREAKING AMERICAN, STFU about your job because you make more than the kid in the 3rd world sweat shop.

It's all relative for the win.


Asking for a trade is the NBA player's version of CareerBuilder.

You hate your $60,000 job because your boss calls you an a'hole every day and no matter how well you perform your job your coworkers all shun you and look down upon you.

You come home, put your resume up on Monster or CB, and it generates an automated response that says "sorry, can't help you, you're a selfish jerk because you could be digging ditches for 15,000 instead, you knew what you signed up for and no place is going to be perfect".



BTW, all the major sports leagues are virtual monopolies. They aren't competing companies anymore than one McDonald's competes with the other one 5 blocks away. They are FRANCHISES of the same company. For chrissake they REVENUE SHARE. Wendy's ain't sending profits over to Buger King.

Imagine this, the ABA exists at a level that it can pay somewhere in the park of the NBA. You are unhappy with the NBA. You quit that job and go take one with the ABA instead.

This basically happened specifically because players did like some of the workplace aspects of the ABA vs the NBA. More uptempo play, dunking, bigger focus on fun and entertainment.


But working for the NBA, NFL or NBA is worse than being a highly paid OS designer for Microsoft. Where else ya gonna go if you want to be paid to do that job? Even Fed Ex guys can cross the street to DHL, UPS or even the USPS, let alone smaller carriers and delivery specialists.

Uh...does that mean you think NBA players should be happy to have a job that pay millions? I know that I have quit jobs making more money to accept a position that I was more happy with. It's relative to the salary. I'll give up $1.00/HR for a job I like, but $5.00/HR...not going to happen.

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Stop whining? I don't feel the players are whining right now. Hell, I'm actually proud that they haven't flat-out thrown fits in the media eye, because Lord knows I would have by now.

Jim is not the only problem, but he is the biggest problem. He's just simply not a good coach.

If I was the team captain, Bird and I would have BEEN had a conversation about JOB. If that didn't work, then I would have taken it to the media to see if I could force the Pacers to trade me ala Ron Artest.

Since86
02-04-2010, 01:40 PM
I think to get any kind of team chemistry going, the players should always try to adapt to the coach's system no matter what it is.

And they would have even better chemistry if they all agreed JOb needed to go.

Bball
02-04-2010, 01:48 PM
I fully believe the players tried it O'Brien's way and gave it everything they had and all signs point to it as being bad basketball for them. We're in year 3, not year 1.

So, no, I wouldn't be angry with them for demanding a trade or even a mutiny. In fact, a mutiny would be a sign they want to be a Pacer, just not play for Jim O'Brien any longer. I couldn't blame them for that. I certainly don't want to see him coach any longer.

This is also not a case where I can get behind the coach because I believe in what he's trying to do. He preaches bad basketball IMHO and I don't see a player on the court who I think would be demanding we run this bad basketball system in order to make him look better.

Trophy
02-04-2010, 02:25 PM
And they would have even better chemistry if they all agreed JOb needed to go.

Right now we're not a connected team. I think bringing in a coach that runs an all around system would be like the glue to bringing this team together. Someone like Lawrence Frank.

In this system under JOB, I feel like each player is a stranger to each other. They aren't aware of what each other's strongest abilities are.

Since86
02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
They aren't aware of what each other's strongest abilities are.

I think they're most certainly aware. The problem is, is that they're told to do something else.

ChicagoJ
02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
And they would have even better chemistry if they all agreed JOb needed to go.

That would be an interesting display of chemistry.

Some would say our chemistry was never stronger than it was on a fateful night in Auburn Hills as they all rode together.

Leadership, mental toughness... we were putting the finishing touched on a butt-whooping of the defending champs in their gym.

Just walk away... it isn't about "I've been dissed!!" its about the scoreboard.

Chemistry is overrated if you don't have leadership first.

Trophy
02-04-2010, 02:39 PM
I think they're most certainly aware. The problem is, is that they're told to do something else.

I begin to wonder if this team would be any different if they didn't have a coach verus JOB being the coach.

Some of the things mentioned by the players about Lester Conner was that he coach more freely. That allowed everyone to play how they wanted to and play with their abilities.

Shade
02-04-2010, 02:40 PM
Right now we're not a connected team. I think bringing in a coach that runs an all around system would be like the glue to bringing this team together. Someone like Lawrence Frank.

In this system under JOB, I feel like each player is a stranger to each other. They aren't aware of what each other's strongest abilities are.

I would be fine with letting Lester take over for the remainder of this season, and maybe even spot him next season as well if he does a good job this year.

No matter what, though, Jim has to go. And I don't think Bird will be able to get him to go peacefully ala Carlisle, either.

Shade
02-04-2010, 02:42 PM
That would be an interesting display of chemistry.

Some would say our chemistry was never stronger than it was on a fateful night in Auburn Hills as they all rode together.

Leadership, mental toughness... we were putting the finishing touched on a butt-whooping of the defending champs in their gym.

Just walk away... it isn't about "I've been dissed!!" its about the scoreboard.

Chemistry is overrated if you don't have leadership first.

We don't have leadership right now.

ChicagoJ
02-04-2010, 02:45 PM
We don't have leadership right now.

We agree.

chrisjacobs7
02-04-2010, 02:53 PM
J'B has already been extended for next year. He's talking about the year after which would be after the rebuild is over.

I would say there's little chance of that happening at the moment.

I knew he was already extended for next season... I've always just assumed that was to prevent a lame-duck situation this year. I still expect him to be gone after the season, only reason I see for bringing him back is if Simon doesn't want to pay for two coaches next season.

Edit: Let me add something else, if JOB is back for next season the Pacers will be losing one STH. (...at least)

Putnam
02-04-2010, 02:55 PM
Name me any other job where people happily accept a horrible or unpleasant workplace just because there is some other job in the world that pays a lot less.

Dear EVERY FREAKING AMERICAN, STFU about your job because you make more than the kid in the 3rd world sweat shop.


Seth, I'm sorry but this is too convoluted for me. What are you saying?

Bball
02-04-2010, 03:09 PM
I knew he was already extended for next season... I've always just assumed that was to prevent a lame-duck situation this year.

Which makes some sense unless you buy into the theory we were just tanking this season anyway and using Jim O'Brien (and his brand of basketball) as a tool through which to accomplish that (and thus have plausible deniability along the way).

If that was true then why not let him just be a lame duck? Especially for an allegedly cash-strapped team.

I just hope allowing him to continue is creating more harm than good at this point.

Since86
02-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Seth, I'm sorry but this is too convoluted for me. What are you saying?

I understood him saying that if we, as workers, are unsatisfied with our positions for the companies we work for, we have the ability to resign and find employment else where in our respected fields.

Professional athletes do not. Although every team in the sport are individual, they are part of one big giant company, because they actually share revenue.

When their workers, read athletes, aren't happy with their position they don't have the same avenues to better their situation that we do.

They can't just up and quit and seek new employment.

ksuttonjr76
02-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Nooooooo.....I just found the article.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2009/9/25/1054853/pacers-coach-obrien-earns-contract

I could have sworn the extension was only for this season. D*mn...to buy NBALP or not to buy NBALP for the 2010-2011 season. Granger...ask for a public trade while you still can.

MikeDC
02-04-2010, 05:15 PM
I understood him saying that if we, as workers, are unsatisfied with our positions for the companies we work for, we have the ability to resign and find employment else where in our respected fields.

Professional athletes do not. Although every team in the sport are individual, they are part of one big giant company, because they actually share revenue.

When their workers, read athletes, aren't happy with their position they don't have the same avenues to better their situation that we do.

They can't just up and quit and seek new employment.

Sure they can, they just can't do it and continue to get paid by their current employer.

Players are getting paid guaranteed money that they won't give up. I'd bet my first born that if TJ Ford, for example, offered to quit and forgo his remaining salary, the Pacers would trip over themselves in their haste to sign the buyout agreement and waive him.

Obviously that's not true for the entire team, but it's certainly true of most of this particular team. Honestly, if I were Bird, I'd not simply let Granger, Head, Hibbert, Hansbrough or Price quit, but really, every other player on the roster, I'd gladly allow to leave if they gave up their money. TJ, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foster, Rush, Watson, Jones and Diener? Seriously? If the Pacers could fire them all tomorrow, replace them with D-Leagers and gain the savings and cap space, they certainly would.

It's largely a two way street.

MillerTime
02-04-2010, 05:35 PM
If JOB got extended next season, and the players suddenly starting demanding to be traded? Otherwise, do they need to stop whining, and just adapt to JOB's system?

he already got an extension

BigRik
02-04-2010, 05:53 PM
I think to get any kind of team chemistry going, the players should always try to adapt to the coach's system no matter what it is.

I think this is backwards. I think the coach should adapt to the players he has. It is a lot easier to replace 1 coach than it is 12 players. It should even be obvious even to the coach that these players in his system isn't working. If you don't have players who can play defense, don't make that what you have to be doing the majority of the game. If you feel the need to chuck threes as an offense, just use more clock to do it so your guys don't have to put so much effort on the defensive end of the court. It's getting to the point that I almost can't blame JOB anymore, because Bird has to see what's going on, and should be making a coaching change. Unless it is ownership that won't allow Bird to eat JOB's contract and replace him.

Justin Tyme
02-04-2010, 06:18 PM
But what if he is back to coach the team next season? He probably would get an extension for 2011-2012 to (a) prevent lame-duck status (again) and (b) to represent a rollforward of the walk-away amount after the 2010-2011 season.


I'll be at the head of the march on Conseco with pitch fork, tar n feathers, and a rail for Bird!