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View Full Version : Did anyone else find these Earl Watson quotes interesting????



Peck
02-03-2010, 01:11 PM
From today's star.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100203/SPORTS04/2030351/1088/SPORTS04/Pacers-play-loose-to-end-losing-skid-at-3

"You think about our team, sometimes we can predominately play on the perimeter and shoot a lot of 3s," Watson said. "Even though we shot a lot of 3s tonight, we had a lot of points in the paint (and) a lot of free throws.

"That's how we have to play. We can't depend on the 3 ball, because if you live by the 3, you'll die by the 3."

"It's time to do something different," Watson said. "For me, I want to help my team win. That's pushing the ball, playing aggressive, getting layups. It creates the tempo for us."

Um, if that wasn't a message to Jim O'Brien or Larry Bird I don't know what it was. He couldn't be more plain in my mind unless he just came out and said "Jim your game plan isn't working, so were going in a differant direction".

I said this in my other thread and I continue it here. I have never seen the entire franchise make a public turn like this.

Hell on the telecast last night they ran a poll asking if people thought that the team should stay small or go to a traditional lineup. This is in direct contrast to the coach makeing the statement, not musing the possibility, that the team will go small.

At this point in time I am pretty convinced that the only person still supporting O'Brien as coach is Bird. Sadly his is the vote that counts.

vnzla81
02-03-2010, 01:28 PM
From today's star.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100203/SPORTS04/2030351/1088/SPORTS04/Pacers-play-loose-to-end-losing-skid-at-3

"You think about our team, sometimes we can predominately play on the perimeter and shoot a lot of 3s," Watson said. "Even though we shot a lot of 3s tonight, we had a lot of points in the paint (and) a lot of free throws.

"That's how we have to play. We can't depend on the 3 ball, because if you live by the 3, you'll die by the 3."

"It's time to do something different," Watson said. "For me, I want to help my team win. That's pushing the ball, playing aggressive, getting layups. It creates the tempo for us."

Um, if that wasn't a message to Jim O'Brien or Larry Bird I don't know what it was. He couldn't be more plain in my mind unless he just came out and said "Jim your game plan isn't working, so were going in a differant direction".

I said this in my other thread and I continue it here. I have never seen the entire franchise make a public turn like this.

Hell on the telecast last night they ran a poll asking if people thought that the team should stay small or go to a traditional lineup. This is in direct contrast to the coach makeing the statement, not musing the possibility, that the team will go small.

At this point in time I am pretty convinced that the only person still supporting O'Brien as coach is Bird. Sadly his is the vote that counts.

Watson was one of the players that looked different yesterday, it seems that most of the guys were playing harder and smarter, and then you have him making comments like this, I am getting closer to think that this team was sending a message to Larry Bird yesterday.

Sookie
02-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Interestingly, I wonder if this suggests that the team felt more "free" and just decided to do what they wanted, or if Lester went that route.

Tom White
02-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Watson was one of the players that looked different yesterday, it seems that most of the guys were playing harder and smarter, and then you have him making comments like this, I am getting closer to think that this team was sending a message to Larry Bird yesterday.

It is almost like they are saying "This is what we can do, if you will allow us."

nerveghost
02-03-2010, 02:07 PM
why can't it be a message to his teammates, and not the coaching staff.

Seems like it is the players' responsibility to force the issue on the court.

Unclebuck
02-03-2010, 02:08 PM
so is he saying that they shouldn't be taking so many threes. (everything he says about pushing the ball etc is the same as always.

So does anyone really believe if a few leaders of the team. Danny, Earl, Mike, Roy went to Jim and said we think we are shooting too many threes, please help us get away from that. Does anyone think that Jim will say, no way you will do as I say......

Mr. Sobchak
02-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Yes.

vnzla81
02-03-2010, 02:14 PM
so is he saying that they shouldn't be taking so many threes. (everything he says about pushing the ball etc is the same as always.

So does anyone really believe if a few leaders of the team. Danny, Earl, Mike, Roy went to Jim and said we think we are shooting too many threes, please help us get away from that. Does anyone think that Jim will say, no way you will do as I say......

he is been saying this all year long and it looks like is not going to change as long as he is the coach.

CableKC
02-03-2010, 02:15 PM
so is he saying that they shouldn't be taking so many threes. (everything he says about pushing the ball etc is the same as always.

So does anyone really believe if a few leaders of the team. Danny, Earl, Mike, Roy went to Jim and said we think we are shooting too many threes, please help us get away from that. Does anyone think that Jim will say, no way you will do as I say......
Yes, but you can also say that when Bird ( and pretty much everyone else ) notices that we are taking too much 3pt attempts....that if it was the Players that were the ones doing it on their own...shouldn't JO'B ( if he too is thinking that they are taking too many ) would do something about it?

I think that the Players ( most notably Granger ) should share some of the blame for taking too many 3pt attempts ( simply cuz it's easy to fall in love with the 3pt shot ). But if JO'B consciously recognizes that something is wrong and does nothing to remedy the situation....he either condones it or he might as well be condoning it since he's doing nothing to fix it in the first place.

spreedom
02-03-2010, 02:56 PM
Why we rely on such a low-percentage shot (that we stink at making... currently 26th in the league in percentage) so frequently (4th in attempts per game) is mind-boggling. In my opinion even a high-tempo team should be shooting 20 or fewer per game. The only two above-average shooters we've had throughout the year are Troy and Brandon. Hopefully Troy's gone soon, but I'm not counting on it -- if he stays I'd say those are the only two guys on the team that should consistently be shooting 4 or 5 per game.

Obviously I'll take my chances on a wide open three over a contested two any day, but that's the problem. Our threes aren't all wide open looks, nor are they being attempted by players that can make them at an efficient rate.

Most of this problem is coaching, but a lot of it is personnel too. The reason that leaves O'Brien to blame is the fact that he refuses to adapt a gameplan that can be carried out by the players he has.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 03:01 PM
Interestingly, I wonder if this suggests that the team felt more "free" and just decided to do what they wanted, or if Lester went that route.
Yeah, I asked the same thing in the post-game. Even Buck said beforehand that this would be a question if things were different.

It seems less likely that LC just had a drastically different plan, though I heard the case made that he just pulled from JOB's playbook and selected a different mix of plays which makes it a lot less drastic in terms of change.

But Buck called it the sub teacher thing where the guys weren't worried about LC coming down on them and played how they wanted instead. I couldn't read it either way, though I will say that it didn't seem like LC was pulling a short leash on them at any point like you might expect if he thought they were getting out of hand in doing their own stuff.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 03:03 PM
why can't it be a message to his teammates, and not the coaching staff.

Seems like it is the players' responsibility to force the issue on the court.
The coach controls their livelihood. Just ask McRoberts or TJ Ford.

Granger isn't pulling Roy in or out of games. That's JOB's power. Therefore he gets the final word. And double that when you consider the attitude Bird would have toward players directly confronting the coach or undermining what he asked them to do.

Unclebuck
02-03-2010, 03:22 PM
I have heard even Jim say that they took too many threes in the game - I've heard him say it about probably 8-10 games.

Since86
02-03-2010, 03:24 PM
I have heard even Jim say that they took too many threes in the game - I've heard him say it about probably 8-10 games.

And I'v heard him say that defense is important.

He says a lot of things.

Bball
02-03-2010, 03:37 PM
I have heard even Jim say that they took too many threes in the game - I've heard him say it about probably 8-10 games.

Is there anything he's not said?

All he does is contradict himself either in actions, following statements, or both.

Mixed messages is part of the problem.

-Bball

ksuttonjr76
02-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Hmmm...that makes what...the 4th or 5th player to speak out and state the team needs to do something different?

DaveP63
02-03-2010, 03:54 PM
Anybody else think this is code for JOB has officially lost this team?

Shade
02-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Whatever blackmail Murphy has on JOB, JOB must also have on Bird. It's the only logical explanation at this point.

McKeyFan
02-03-2010, 05:04 PM
Hard to figure all these clues out.

Personally, I'm not sure I can read much into Watson's quotes as an anti JOB signal.

Watson said the same things JOB often says. You could read his quotes as simply repeating the kinds of things JOB would tell him to do.

True, JOB sends all sorts of mixed messages. I can buy the theory that the team is tired of the mixed messages and found some motivation to win one with someone else at the helm.

But for Watson to say we need to do things differently . . . well, even JOB is admitting that lately, switching starting line ups so often, going radically small, etc.

Now, when DJones called for going back to what was working, that was more of a signal.

I think the players are tired of JOB, just like most of us are. But I didn't get much out of Watson's statements. But Peck usually discerns these things pretty well, so I'm game to watch it play out.

NuffSaid
02-03-2010, 05:08 PM
All I know is for atleast one game, the Pacers played smarter, not harder. Or as Lester Conner said, "they played to win, not to lose."

I, for one, was impressed. Just hope this trend continues for the rest of the season and not merely for one game.

Justin Tyme
02-03-2010, 06:07 PM
Whatever blackmail Murphy has on JOB, JOB must also have on Bird. It's the only logical explanation at this point.


Too much pride, ego, and stubborness on JO'S and Bird's part.

sportfireman
02-03-2010, 06:14 PM
Too much pride, ego, and stubborness on JO'S and Bird's part.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STUBBORN PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the jaddler
02-03-2010, 07:28 PM
well so if the players are speaking out...and the public is speaking out....if Bird is speaking out.....and the most important people of all the ticket buyers and the STH are speaking out......all against JOB and his methods..........why is he not listing......and if he isnt listening what is going to be done about it????

bellisimo
02-03-2010, 07:34 PM
you guys still haven't bought in to the idea that we're pretty much gunnin' the tank?

Anthem
02-03-2010, 08:23 PM
you guys still haven't bought in to the idea that we're pretty much gunnin' the tank?
Yeah, I've mentioned that a couple of times recently but haven't made a big deal out of it.

If I'm Bird, I'm looking at the standings and wondering if sacking Obie and giving the job to Lester Connor might not destroy our draft position.

I wouldn't expect Obie to be fired before the ASB, though. Make whatever moves you're going to make, take away his security blanket (Murph), and then see what he gives you.

vnzla81
02-03-2010, 08:27 PM
you guys still haven't bought in to the idea that we're pretty much gunnin' the tank?

if they were tanking they would not play Danny at 90% the same thing with Dun and they would play the young players more.

Peck
02-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Bird may be tanking, the team may be tanking but I'm certain that O'Brien actually thinks he is giving himself the best chance for winning by the way he is coaching.

vnzla81
02-03-2010, 08:47 PM
Bird may be tanking, the team may be tanking but I'm certain that O'Brien actually thinks he is giving himself the best chance for winning by the way he is coaching.

is true......................................so he needs to get fired as soon as possible.....:D

BlueNGold
02-03-2010, 09:12 PM
Maybe a little interesting, but it's just more of the same measured complaints about the way JOb coaches. We heard measured complaints from Dahntay Jones months ago. This is just Watson's version. I think they believe JOb is not putting the right players on the floor and that he's not running the right system to win games.

Those guys are both vets who worked for other teams...and they know how you are supposed to play basketball in the NBA. Believe JOb or believe the players and most of the fans. It's your choice.

Trophy
02-03-2010, 09:23 PM
Maybe we should stick AJ in the starting lineup for a few games and see what happens.

I'm sure Earl didn't have that in mind.

Jonathan
02-03-2010, 09:49 PM
I don't know if the Pacers have the least athletic team in the NBA or that JOB is not playing the correct line up?

BlueNGold
02-03-2010, 10:29 PM
...the Pacers have the least athletic team in the NBA AND JOB is not playing the correct line up.

fixed.

Smoothdave1
02-03-2010, 11:28 PM
The interesting thing about this is that I spoke to a guy I work with today who is based out of Florida and is a huge Magic fan. Anyway, he mentioned he caught the game last night and commented how "The Pacers looked so free flowing and looked like they were having a good time" and asked "what was the difference between last night and the rest of the season"?

I think that difference was that we let the reigns off the players and they had a chance to utilize their strengths and it was a balanced team effort. If you saw Murph's comments, I think that says it all: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=300202011

"A little different play calling, a little different freedom," Murphy said. "He has his own style apart from Coach O'Brien, but the message is the same. He did a great job tonight and really filled in well for Coach."

vnzla81
02-03-2010, 11:42 PM
This comments are already telling me what many of us already suspected.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=300202011


INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indiana Pacers were on their best behavior while their teacher was away.


Lester Conner coached in place of Jim O'Brien, who attended a family funeral, and Indiana responded with an impressive 130-115 victory over the surging Toronto Raptors on Tuesday night.

Danny Granger scored 23 points to help the Pacers snap Toronto's five-game winning streak. Indiana also ended a three-game skid.

Conner deflected credit.

"The guys gave me all they wanted, and I said, 'Hey, you guys are telling me congratulations, it's congratulations to you because you guys needed this more than I did,'" Conner said. "When the substitute teacher is around, you want to try to do good or try to test him to see what he has. Those guys went out and played their hearts out."

The players said they wanted to win for Conner.

"Les is a lot of fun, he's a great assistant coach," forward Troy Murphy said. "He's a guy you can always talk to and he's a good dude. We're happy he got the win."
Murphy had 20 points and 14 rebounds. Roy Hibbert added 18 points and nine boards for Indiana, and Earl Watson finished with 15 points and a season-high 11 assists.

It was a season scoring high for the Pacers, who had scored fewer than 100 points in six of their previous nine games. Seven Pacers scored in double figures.

"A lot of guys played some minutes and we just moved the ball well," Granger said. "I don't know why it was so balanced, but that's the type of games we need."

It was a much different game than Indiana's 117-102 loss in Toronto on Sunday. This time, the Pacers made 33-of-35 free throws and shot 52 percent from the field.

It was just the fifth time the Pacers shot better than 50 percent this season.

"A little different play calling, a little different freedom," Murphy said. "He has his own style apart from Coach O'Brien, but the message is the same. He did a great job tonight and really filled in well for Coach."
Chris Bosh had 35 points and 15 rebounds and Andrea Bargnani scored a career-high 34 points for the Raptors.

Bargnani said the defensive meltdown rendered his personal accomplishment meaningless.

"When you lose like that, it doesn't really matter," he said.

The Raptors couldn't explain their lack of defensive intensity. It was the highest point total they've allowed this season.

"The reason we came out the way we did, I don't know exactly why," said Toronto guard Jarrett Jack, who played for the Pacers last season. "We just didn't play our type of game at all."

The Pacers scored 50 points in the paint, their highest total of 2010.

"We didn't do a good job of getting up into them and making them do something else," Bosh said. "Our weakside defense was nonexistent and we had too many blow-bys."

Indiana led 58-53 at halftime and opened the second half with an 18-8 surge, capped by Murphy's 3-pointer. Brandon Rush's 3 extended Indiana's lead to 20 points just over five minutes into the third quarter.

The Pacers shot 76 percent and scored 42 points in the third, one point short of its season high for a single period. Eight different players scored for the Pacers in the quarter.

Bargnani helped keep the Raptors in the game with 19 points in the third. Dahntay Jones made two free throws with one second left in the period to put the Pacers up 100-86.

The Raptors' defense didn't improve much in the fourth quarter.

"I think we played terrible defense," Bargnani said. "We gave up 130 points. We wasted a good opportunity, but we've got to give them credit. They played really good."

The Pacers looked like a different team, but Conner said he stuck to O'Brien's philosophy for the most part. The biggest change was starting Hibbert instead of Mike Dunleavy.

"We never really try to change anything because it would catch the guys off-guard," Conner said. "I've been around Coach O'Brien for a long time, so I know exactly what he wants and how he wants it. What he did say to me on the plane, he told me to do whatever I need to do to get a win."

McKeyFan
02-03-2010, 11:52 PM
So, for Lester, in order to get a win, you start Hibbert.

Not necessarily a JOB clone, eh?

rexnom
02-04-2010, 06:01 AM
"A little different play calling, a little different freedom," Murphy said. "He has his own style apart from Coach O'Brien, but the message is the same. He did a great job tonight and really filled in well for Coach."
(LITERALLY THE NEXT LINE, AS IF TO INDICATE HOW RIDICULOUS THIS TEAM IS)
Chris Bosh had 35 points and 15 rebounds and Andrea Bargnani scored a career-high 34 points for the Raptors.
Oh yeah, Troy. Whenever your defense holds the opposing teams' two starting big guys to under 70 points, you're rock solid.

Unclebuck
02-04-2010, 09:45 AM
Ok, I'm confused on the specific topic of player freedom.

Doesn't O'Brien receive a great deal of criticism around these parts because he gives his players too much freedom on the offensive side of things. And now we are suggesting that Conner did a nice job because he gave the players even more freedom?

Can someone reconcile that for me.

Maybe the key phrase is when Murphy says it was a little "different" freedom

MagicRat
02-04-2010, 09:52 AM
So, for Lester, in order to get a win, you start Hibbert.

Not necessarily a JOB clone, eh?

He also played Murphy almost 37 minutes so he's not a PD member, either.

Sookie
02-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Ok, I'm confused on the specific topic of player freedom.

Doesn't O'Brien receive a great deal of criticism around these parts because he gives his players too much freedom on the offensive side of things. And now we are suggesting that Conner did a nice job because he gave the players even more freedom?

Can someone reconcile that for me.

Maybe the key phrase is when Murphy says it was a little "different" freedom

It is different.

JOB is "the freedom to shoot the second you touch the ball"
Lester's freedom was "the freedom to do what you want."

CableKC
02-04-2010, 12:30 PM
So, for Lester, in order to get a win, you start Hibbert.

Not necessarily a JOB clone, eh?
To be fair......it's not like JO'B hasn't started Hibbert as well. JO'B is a total matchups type of guy that prefers to have Vets and/or Players he trusts on the floor to close games.

After 1 single game....we have no idea what Connor's philosophy on matchups is.

CableKC
02-04-2010, 12:35 PM
It is different.

JOB is "the freedom to shoot the second you touch the ball"
Lester's freedom was "the freedom to do what you want."
Is that a good thing?

I don't always want the Players to do what they want. I also don't want them to shoot the ball the second they touch the ball.....but it's been said here on PD before that many of the Players would probably respond better and be more efficient/production in a more structured offense. It would seem that players like BRush, Dunleavy and Hibbert would better in a more structured offense where they know what they have to do, where they play with the appropriate Players that understand what needs to be done and is capable of executing it properly.

Sookie
02-04-2010, 12:40 PM
Is that a good thing?

I don't always want the Players to do what they want. I also don't want them to shoot the ball the second they touch the ball.....but it's been said here on PD before that many of the Players would probably respond better and be more efficient/production in a more structured offense. It would seem that players like BRush, Dunleavy and Hibbert would better in a more structured offense where they know what they have to do, where they play with the appropriate Players that understand what needs to be done and is capable of executing it properly.

But I think that's what Watson and to a lesser extent Price did. They supplied a more structured offense that was more of a "go to the basket" type of offense.

Letting the PGs do what they want, isn't necessarily going to result in a messy offense. I think in compared to what they are told to do, it'll be more of a structured offense. Because the biggest difference was the way the PGs and Rush played last game.

McKeyFan
02-04-2010, 12:51 PM
To be fair......it's not like JO'B hasn't started Hibbert as well. JO'B is a total matchups type of guy that prefers to have Vets and/or Players he trusts on the floor to close games.

After 1 single game....we have no idea what Connor's philosophy on matchups is.

Well, we played Toronto back to back. JOB benches Roy the first game (which we lost) and Conner started Roy the second game a couple days later, which we won.

Shade
02-04-2010, 01:54 PM
Lester went with more of an inside-out game against the Raptors. That is absolutely nothing like Jim's usual game plan.

Since86
02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
Ok, I'm confused on the specific topic of player freedom.

Doesn't O'Brien receive a great deal of criticism around these parts because he gives his players too much freedom on the offensive side of things. And now we are suggesting that Conner did a nice job because he gave the players even more freedom?

Can someone reconcile that for me.

Maybe the key phrase is when Murphy says it was a little "different" freedom

I don't think he gives them freedom at all, or certainly not every player.

You really want to argue that Roy is given freedom, or Rush? They play with one eye looking over their shoulder they're so damn scared of being pulled after one mistake.

Freedom is not a term that I think of when I think of JOb's philosophy. Freedom is when you're able to do what you want, play to your strengths. Screaming at horrible shooters to shoot a 3pt shot, like he did with Quis, isn't freedom. It's molding players to fit his style, and not molding his style to fit the players.

I mean seriously, just last week he was criticizing taking a midrange jumpshot, calling it the "worst shot in basketball" and you're trying to say he promotes freedom?

Somewhere William Wallace just rolled over in his grave.

At this point in time, I think you're so deep in defending Jim, that you will make any argument, whether you agree with it or not.

Bball
02-04-2010, 02:51 PM
Ok, I'm confused on the specific topic of player freedom.


Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....

PaceBalls
02-04-2010, 05:36 PM
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....

And you know...
Nothing aint worth nothing, but it's free...

MikeDC
02-04-2010, 06:01 PM
Generally speaking, if a player says "do something different", he means "I want the ball more".

I'm pretty meh on that coming from Earl Watson,

Bball
02-05-2010, 07:31 PM
And you know...
Nothing aint worth nothing, but it's free...


It's just me and you Thingfish. Throw another quarter in the jukebox and I'll buy this round....:buddies:

MagicRat
02-06-2010, 12:13 AM
Play it again!

Feeling good was easy when Troy shot the three
And feeling good was good enough for me
Good enough for me and J.O.B........

Bball
02-06-2010, 12:17 AM
LOL!

"Good enough for me and Jimmy O.B........"

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2010, 12:22 AM
"Oh lord, won't you buy me a top 5 draft pick"