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vnzla81
02-02-2010, 10:26 PM
Good game by the pacers today, it was nice to see and inside out offense, the defense was ok, no good just ok, seems like the players were playing a bit harder today, I wonder why?(:devil:), the coach did a good job in replacing the guys and knowing how to match them, also Danny Granger looked a bit better.

LG33
02-02-2010, 10:29 PM
What we need to do is analyze the differences between this game and Sunday's game and find what - if anything - Conner did differently from JOB. Who got more minutes tonight than in Toronto? Combinations? Did we just shoot better?

Anthem
02-02-2010, 10:34 PM
Giving Jim props for a moment: I think Lester proved why Jim didn't want Murph and Roy starting together. Look at Toronto's bigs: their starters got 70 points from 2 positions. That's rough.

Luckily we scored enough points to offset the brutal interior defense.

vnzla81
02-02-2010, 10:35 PM
What we need to do is analyze the differences between this game and Sunday's game and find what - if anything - Conner did differently from JOB. Who got more minutes tonight than in Toronto? Combinations? Did we just shoot better?

I think it was a combination, but at the same time it seems like the guys were fresh, Rush made some moves that I never seen him doing before, he was not afraid of going to the bench if he made a mistake, another thing is that Murphy only played Center when AB was the center , they were also giving the ball to Hibbert and keep pounding those midgets as Charles Barkley says:)

owl
02-02-2010, 10:37 PM
The Pacers need some more midget stompers. Draft or trade, but somehow they need more
physicality and athleticism.

PacerDude
02-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Balance. Intentional or not by Lester, there was a team effort tonite. Look at the scoring, shots taken ............. balance.

Don't know how it happened, but it needs to happen more.

Sookie
02-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Giving Jim props for a moment: I think Lester proved why Jim didn't want Murph and Roy starting together. Look at Toronto's bigs: their starters got 70 points from 2 positions. That's rough.

Luckily we scored enough points to offset the brutal interior defense.

After watching tonight's game.

I have to say, Troy Murphy is not the worst defensive player on this team. Dunleavy is. Troy at least looks like he's trying.

Infinite MAN_force
02-02-2010, 10:46 PM
I felt like there was a much more concerted effort to get inside tonight, much more than usual. I don't know if you can chalk that up to coaching or not, but I did notice it. The team in general seemed much more energized.

Bball
02-02-2010, 10:48 PM
Toronto hits a 3 to cut the lead to 12 in the 4th. Pacers inbound the ball and WALK it up the court and value that possession. We end up with a Granger layup towards the end of the shot clock. We use clock and don't allow Toronto's momentum to get on a roll. We don't jack up a 3, miss, and giftwrap a basket going the other way.

The team recognized the situation and played accordingly.

That was a microcosm of the entire game.

This team IS capable of smart basketball... when it's encouraged (or not discouraged in order to 'push, push, push').

PaceBalls
02-02-2010, 10:56 PM
This game was small ball to the extreme. We were playing Mike Jr at the PF and Murph at C for quite a bit in this game and we had the bigger team out there. Danny was posting people up. Murph was out muscling people, it was crazy...

If Toronto needs a new coach next year, they might want to look at Jim, that is his dream team there.

Trophy
02-02-2010, 11:04 PM
Three Trophies of the Game

Bronze: Troy Murphy
If he played like how he did tonight in every game, there would be no reason to get rid of him (ignoring his salary). He had his usual, effective double-double. 20 points and 14 rebounds. His defense was effective and better than usual. Keep it up Troy.

Silver: Earl Watson
He looked good defensively and was passing and scoring the ball very well. He had 15 points and 11 assists. This is the kind of PG we really need. He made it appear that Jarrett Jack is not missed here and we've moved on with him. Continue this play Earl.

Gold: Lester Conner
Sure the coach can win an award. He forced us to run and shoot less. He kept our players defensive minded throughout the whole game. I always thought he would make a good Pacers head coach. His system is a little bit of everything. Scoring/shooting, defense, passing, driving to the basket. Hope you get the job Lester.

Roy Hibbert deserves a lot of credit also. He fell one short of a double-double in rebouding. He scored 23 points and was very aggressive in the paint and didn't allow anyone in easily. His usual post offense looked great. Keep it going Roy.

Danny Granger with the highest points on the team with 23. His 3 point shooting looked awful. What's up DG?

Hoop
02-02-2010, 11:07 PM
Maybe is was my imagination but the guys sure seemed to player harder and were more inclined to make the extra pass tonight.

JOB not being there?

Who knows, but it sure looked that way to me.

Unclebuck
02-02-2010, 11:13 PM
Gold: Lester Conner
Sure the coach can win an award. He forced us to run and shoot less. He kept our players defensive minded throughout the whole game. I always thought he would make a good Pacers head coach. His system is a little bit of everything. Scoring/shooting, defense, passing, driving to the basket. Hope you get the job Lester.



What do you mean "run and shoot less"

The Pacers defense was poor tonight, so I don't think if there was any effect from having Conner as the head coach it was on the defensive end. The offense was nice tonight

Perhaps I am misreading your point about the "system" but a coach puts in his system during the 4 weeks of training camp and 8 preseason games and even then it can take half the regular season. Conner had no time to put in his system

Bball
02-02-2010, 11:13 PM
Maybe is was my imagination but the guys sure seemed to player harder and were more inclined to make the extra pass tonight.

JOB not being there?

Who knows, but it sure looked that way to me.

They did play harder and smarter tonight.

I suspect the team was sending a message, whether intenti

They also played smarter... whether that was just because they actually tried to play hard and a headier game was a byproduct of that or whether it was a lack of conflicting messages from the sidelines...or both... I don't know...

There's really no reason for O'Brien to return though. He brings nothing we need to the sidelines at this point.

vnzla81
02-02-2010, 11:14 PM
Maybe is was my imagination but the guys sure seemed to player harder and were more inclined to make the extra pass tonight.

JOB not being there?

Who knows, but it sure looked that way to me.

not just that, did you pay attention to Rush? he was shooting and going inside. He was not afraid today, nobody was screaming like a crazy clown every time he made a mistake.

Trophy
02-02-2010, 11:15 PM
What do you mean "run and shoot less"

The Pacers defense was poor tonight, so I don't think if there was any effect from having Conner as the head coach it was on the defensive end. The offense was nice tonight

Perhaps I am misreading your point about the "system" but a coach puts in his system during the 4 weeks of training camp and 8 preseason games and even then it can take half the regular season. Conner had no time to put in his system

We ran more and shot less.

Based on tonight, it appeared that we were doing almost everything. I assumed it was part if Conner's game plan.

Bball
02-02-2010, 11:18 PM
What do you mean "run and shoot less"

The Pacers defense was poor tonight, so I don't think if there was any effect from having Conner as the head coach it was on the defensive end. The offense was nice tonight

Perhaps I am misreading your point about the "system" but a coach puts in his system during the 4 weeks of training camp and 8 preseason games and even then it can take half the regular season. Conner had no time to put in his system

The set defense looked like it has all season... meh... but not nearly as bad as our transition defense.

A fairly significant part of the time we've been watching teams going the other way with the points we giftwrap for them with our hurried shots and lack of offensive discipline.... and lack of fundamentals... and just bad basketball in general...

We saw very little of that tonight. YAY!

Unclebuck
02-02-2010, 11:19 PM
not just that, did you pay attention to Rush? he was shooting and going inside. He was not afraid today, nobody was screaming like a crazy clown every time he made a mistake.

Rush has generally been doing that more and more during the past fe weeks. I have ben to a number of games this year and I have never seen JOB yell at Rush. In fact Jim has said that Rush doesn't respond well to yelling or harsh criticism, so they don't do that with him

I'm leaving this thread, but I will just say I think some of you are perhaps reading too much into the different coach thing

Unclebuck
02-02-2010, 11:23 PM
We ran more and shot less.



How can you run more and shoot less. give me an example. Are you saying they ran the ball up court but then ran their offense more in the halfcourt instead of shooting the ball quickly? Not sure I saw that, but I would have to do some sort of shot clock analysis. I will say the ball movement was excellent and watson as great tonight

Trophy
02-02-2010, 11:30 PM
How can you run more and shoot less. give me an example. Are you saying they ran the ball up court but then ran their offense more in the halfcourt instead of shooting the ball quickly? Not sure I saw that, but I would have to do some sort of shot clock analysis. I will say the ball movement was excellent and watson as great tonight

We weren't settling for any ordinary shots we passed it around to the open player. More of that was from Earl. We drove to the basket so that covers the running. The PG ran it up to actually get the open layup.

The defense from everyone looked better than it usually does.

odeez
02-02-2010, 11:34 PM
It was just nice to see them win tonight. The smiles & communication with everyone was nice to see. Though our defense was horrible inside. I like what Granger did tonight, his shot was off from outside, but he seemed to be around the basket more and drew a couple charges.

Hibbert and DG look to have some chemistry together, playing off each other. Rush has continued to show improvement and consistancy. And you have to say, though Bosh abused him, Murphy brought his game tonight. Earl played well tonight as well, the team as a whole played great. Nice seeing Lester on the sidelines.

graphic-er
02-02-2010, 11:42 PM
i'm not sure where all the Murphy love is coming from, sure he had a double double, but he literally gave up 30 pts to AB. He made him look like the Italian Dirk!
Also from the club level you could see Granger and Lester arguing across the court several times during the game, i wonder what that was about.

Jon Theodore
02-02-2010, 11:52 PM
I think Jim O'Brien is a terrible coach, I also think that anyone who thinks we played harder because of his absence tonight is seriously reaching.

If someone can draw some serious conclusions from this game in regards to substitutions, playing time, combinations, etc..i'd entertain the idea that Lester made a significant difference....


Also, our defense was terrible tonight...and you need to look no further than the final score to see that.

BillS
02-02-2010, 11:55 PM
The defense was the same meh it has been all season.

The offense was a sparkling gem of NOT SETTLING FOR QUICK JUMPERS.

jhondog28
02-02-2010, 11:57 PM
Sorry but I just cannot give all the props to the coach like many of you all are. We win games when we make shots...thats what happened tonight. Toronto played terrible defense and our team played more aggressive. When you shoot over 50% you normaly win. I think Les relates to the youth better than JOB so that probably helps, but one game is one game. I just dont know if this would keep up for an entire season. Again this teams issue is talent. Bosh lit us up ike a Xmas tree. If we didnt shoot well and Toronto gave a half *** defesnsive effort we would lose this game by 10. Maybe the Pacers have made me cynical lately but I cannot help the doubts in my head.

Sookie
02-02-2010, 11:58 PM
i'm not sure where all the Murphy love is coming from, sure he had a double double, but he literally gave up 30 pts to AB. He made him look like the Italian Dirk!
Also from the club level you could see Granger and Lester arguing across the court several times during the game, i wonder what that was about.

Are you sure they were arguing, or just talking. If they were halfway across the court they may have had to yell to hear each other.

I think the injury/pain is affecting Danny's shot. He's not that poor of a shooter and plenty of his shots were good shots.

I'm glad he's taking the ball inside. But he's also not a very good penetrator.

BillS
02-03-2010, 12:06 AM
Sorry but I just cannot give all the props to the coach like many of you all are. We win games when we make shots...thats what happened tonight. Toronto played terrible defense and our team played more aggressive. When you shoot over 50% you normaly win. I think Les relates to the youth better than JOB so that probably helps, but one game is one game. I just dont know if this would keep up for an entire season. Again this teams issue is talent. Bosh lit us up ike a Xmas tree. If we didnt shoot well and Toronto gave a half *** defesnsive effort we would lose this game by 10. Maybe the Pacers have made me cynical lately but I cannot help the doubts in my head.

No, Toronto tried very hard to do what teams defending the Pacers have done all season - block up the middle and force us to shoot jumpers. Tonight we didn't do that, we continued to try to get into the short range. That caused us to actually draw fouls and cleared space so we could score rather than brick outside jumpers until the opponents were up by double digits.

It'd have to happen more than once to be confirmed, but right now that is enough of a departure from normal to give some props to Lester.

Bball
02-03-2010, 12:29 AM
I think Jim O'Brien is a terrible coach,

I think you might be giving him too much credit but I won't argue the point that he's worse than that. :devil: ;)



I also think that anyone who thinks we played harder because of his absence tonight is seriously reaching.

The argument is that the team had a weight lifted off their shoulders not seeing him on the sidelines and actually cared about the game and thus tried harder.

My own opinion is we have a smart enough team to see that O'Brien preaches losing basketball for this team. They've TRIED it his way and see it for what it is (bad basketball) and are through with the mixed messages he sends and horrid basketball he preaches. Even if they are the most coachable team ever assembled they are mentally drained trying to play a style that does not work for them (and will not work for them). It's backwards to most everything they've ever been taught about the game. It's losing basketball.




If someone can draw some serious conclusions from this game in regards to substitutions, playing time, combinations, etc..i'd entertain the idea that Lester made a significant difference....

The main thing I saw was the team actually probed the inside, passed the ball, and didn't take the first jumper they had. They valued possessions... they got to the FT line. They played smart and recognized situations.

I can't tall you whether or not Conner had anything directly to do with that but I can tell you they don't play that way with O'Brien coaching (and won't be playing that way either).
Perhaps there was a longer leash and simply less confusing messages being sent.

In any case... There's no reason for O'Brien to return. They played better without him tonight and won a game. That's pretty much more than we can expect when he returns.



Also, our defense was terrible tonight...and you need to look no further than the final score to see that.

Our defense wasn't stellar by any stretch but by scoring 130 there were certainly plenty of possessions for Toronto to score as well. At least we were on the 130 side of the score. And we didn't GIVE them cheap baskets by playing poor offense (of the type O'Brien demands). We also won by what, 15? So it's not like we traded baskets and had to win on a last second shot.

Mainly... we played smarter, better basketball...no spray and pray.... and got a win because of it.

Sookie
02-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Point guard play was excellent tonight, and tht's a huge difference.

Earl obviously stats showed how good he was. A.J. played well too, he only had 2 assists, but he had 8 attempted assists, in about fifteen minutes. It's also interesting he took quite a bit less shots this game. (as opposed to the last game, where he had 2 attempted assists)

What's the difference with them? Well, I suspect the emphasis on going inside as opposed to giving the ball to outside shooters. This was a difference for Watson. For Price however, he still drove the lane and kicked the ball out. (which is why only 2 of his 8 attempted assists were actually put down) Which from watching him, I know is JOB's teachings. (although truthfully, at Uconn he never had anyone he could kick it out to)

But I think it's interesting that with Jim Obrien not there, Price and Watson both being more "pass first" minded. And honestly, I'm not positive that's a great thing for all point guards. And whether that's the best mentality depending on the lineup in with Price and Watson...but I do think it's an interesting difference. And I'd be interested in knowing if that was just a "this game" thing..a new emphasis in practice, or a JOB vs. No JOB thing.

Hicks
02-03-2010, 12:50 AM
Sookie, how do you know AJ had 8 attempted assists? Does a site keep that?

Sookie
02-03-2010, 12:56 AM
Sookie, how do you know AJ had 8 attempted assists? Does a site keep that?

A lot of european sites kept it, and I was curious because his lack of assists pattern was not normal for him. So I counted last game and this game.

I've done that a few times with Kemba Walker and Jerome Dyson (Uconn players) for a certain other reason (argument with the family..:P) before. I think it's an interesting stat and I wish it was kept in the NBA and college, because assists REALLY depends on the other person.

Admittedly, it's hard to count attempted assists with this team. Because sometimes I know that Earl and AJ are fully not intending for a pass to be an assist, but the guy shoots anyway..(typically it's Head and Granger) and more often then not, the ball does not go in. So I have a hard time counting that as an "attempted assist" because there was no play creation..but technically it is.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 01:06 AM
Interior defense struggled, including Josh when he got in.

Bellinelli blew a couple of layups that helped.

Danny stepped inside for a few more shots, didn't go quite 3 crazy.

Troy got to the rim more than normal and was effective.

There was more ball movement off the post along with good cutters and that seemed to help the FG% a bit.


There's only 2 way the coach impacted the game. Either they wanted to play harder for him (or not JOB) or he couldn't control them and they went and did their own things.

Actually one other coaching impact is the rotation and who got to play when, or who didn't get yanked when.



Favorite moment - there was a Raps fan with a Bosh jersey on screaming at Roy as he shot FTs in the 4th. Roy hits them both and then as he goes up court he blows the guy a kiss. Then he ends up at the line again, guy keeps it up and Roy hits both. As he goes up court he gives the whisper finger.

This and his general play late in the game (with 5 fouls no less) had lots of people calling out for him to make plays, really getting fired up behind him specifically. Lots of Roy love down on the offensive end from the crowd.

It felt pretty good to be enjoying cheering for a guy that much.

cdash
02-03-2010, 01:13 AM
Favorite moment - there was a Raps fan with a Bosh jersey on screaming at Roy as he shot FTs in the 4th. Roy hits them both and then as he goes up court he blows the guy a kiss. Then he ends up at the line again, guys keeps it up and Roy hits both. As he goes up court he gives the whisper finger.

This and his general play late in the game (with 5 fouls no less) had lots of people calling out for him to make plays let, really getting fired up behind him specifically. Lots of Roy love down on the offensive end from the crowd.

It felt pretty good to be enjoying cheering for a guy that much.

So what you want about his game and it's limitations, but Roy is one extremely likeable guy.

pwee31
02-03-2010, 01:16 AM
I think everyone was interested to see how the team responded with Lester Conner as the coach, and how he would manage the lineups. Unfortunately it was under sad circumstances.

It was only a very tiny sample size, but I think this is the 1st time we've played the Raptors this season where they didn't have a comfy double digit lead during the game

pwee31
02-03-2010, 01:21 AM
I'd also like to point out the team scored 130 points WITHOUT hitting double digit 3 pointers, and also attempted more free throws then the opposing team going 33-35 from the line!!!

Drewtone
02-03-2010, 03:23 AM
Favorite moment - there was a Raps fan with a Bosh jersey on screaming at Roy as he shot FTs in the 4th. Roy hits them both and then as he goes up court he blows the guy a kiss. Then he ends up at the line again, guy keeps it up and Roy hits both. As he goes up court he gives the whisper finger.

This and his general play late in the game (with 5 fouls no less) had lots of people calling out for him to make plays, really getting fired up behind him specifically. Lots of Roy love down on the offensive end from the crowd.

It felt pretty good to be enjoying cheering for a guy that much.

Yeah, the Raptors announcers were accusing him of doing that to the Raptors Bench. Idiots. They were also getting on Danny for his 'body language' towards his teammates. Didn't see it.

BKK
02-03-2010, 04:51 AM
might this become... the "Infamous one game win streak with Lester as head coach" ? :D

McKeyFan
02-03-2010, 09:24 AM
Larry, this is a lay up.

Make Lester the interim coach. Allow JOB to step down for family reasons.

Putnam
02-03-2010, 09:26 AM
Trophy keeps saying that Lester Connor made the Pacers "shoot less."

The fact is, the Pacers made 84 field goal attempts, which is exactly the rate they are attempting throughout this season. So the Pacers didn't shoot less.

Here's how Trophy explains his point more exactly:


We weren't settling for any ordinary shots we passed it around to the open player.

Is this true? The Pacers had 24 assists last night. Season average is 20. Was it evident to those who watched the game?

Unclebuck
02-03-2010, 09:47 AM
I'd also like to point out the team scored 130 points WITHOUT hitting double digit 3 pointers, and also attempted more free throws then the opposing team going 33-35 from the line!!!

excellent points.

I think we can assume from watching the game and reading Conner's comments after the game that he tried to get the team to shoot the ball from inside the three point line - Conner said that he ran some plays for Danny to get him inside.

I'm all for that

I'm sure Jim will be back on Friday, would be interesting to see what Conner would do if he coached another game.

Unclebuck
02-03-2010, 09:49 AM
might this become... the "Infamous one game win streak with Lester as head coach" ? :D

I fear this 1 game will morph into something more than it was. Check back in a week to 10 days.

graphic-er
02-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Are you sure they were arguing, or just talking. If they were halfway across the court they may have had to yell to hear each other.

I think the injury/pain is affecting Danny's shot. He's not that poor of a shooter and plenty of his shots were good shots.



It looked like they were arguing based off the body language, Granger had "why are you even talking to me right now" look on his face, and he appeared to blow off whatever Lester was saying. Couple with the Well's blog this morning saying how Danny took 2 quick three's after Lester was instructing them to burn the clock. I get the feeling that Granger does not respect the coaching staff very much.

wintermute
02-03-2010, 10:05 AM
just to increase the sample size a bit, it's worth noting that lester conner has already coached another game this season (sort of), after obie got tossed in the first quarter in a loss to the cavs last november.

at the time, no one on the board seemed particularly impressed with lester's coaching. link here (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=48439).

Unclebuck
02-03-2010, 10:23 AM
just to increase the sample size a bit, it's worth noting that lester conner has already coached another game this season (sort of), after obie got tossed in the first quarter in a loss to the cavs last november.

at the time, no one on the board seemed particularly impressed with lester's coaching. link here (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=48439).

I remember that game and that thread. I will say that Conner had no idea obviously that he would be coaching that game. Where as last night he had some time to decide what he wanted to do and time to work through a shoot around....

Justin Tyme
02-03-2010, 10:23 AM
The fact is, the Pacers made 84 field goal attempts,


:confused: "Made" 84 FGA?"

Shouldn't it be they "took" 84 FGA? If they made 84 FGA, Jimmy would be pointing out great his helter skelter run n gun with little "D" system was in his absence!

Brad8888
02-03-2010, 10:32 AM
just to increase the sample size a bit, it's worth noting that lester conner has already coached another game this season (sort of), after obie got tossed in the first quarter in a loss to the cavs last november.

at the time, no one on the board seemed particularly impressed with lester's coaching. link here (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=48439).

IIRC, a lot of that reaction had to do with Conner starting the process of breaking Dahntay's tendency of driving to the basket and benching Dahntay when he wouldn't listen. Otherwise back then it was more of the same overall because it literally was an in game, totally unplanned change with no opportunity for Conner to do anything but carry out O'B's plan.

Last night's game appears to have been a game where the Pacers finally moved the ball some and got some inside looks that resulted in freethrows.

And, other than Bellinelli, we shut their guards down for once. Jack didn't look like a world beater against us this time.

I don't necessarily think it was a radical change, but it appears some tweaks may have been made, resulting both in free throws and less contested shots.

Here I am getting all positive. Shame on me, really...

McKeyFan
02-03-2010, 10:33 AM
It looked like they were arguing based off the body language, Granger had "why are you even talking to me right now" look on his face, and he appeared to blow off whatever Lester was saying. Couple with the Well's blog this morning saying how Danny took 2 quick three's after Lester was instructing them to burn the clock. I get the feeling that Granger does not respect the coaching staff very much.

That's a little concerning.

Danny did chuck up an early three with about three minutes to go. Had Toronto gone on a run, that mistake could have been costly. The fact that Danny would argue about it is not good.

sweabs
02-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Yeah, the Raptors announcers were accusing him of doing that to the Raptors Bench. Idiots. They were also getting on Danny for his 'body language' towards his teammates. Didn't see it.
They're COMPLETE idiots (particularly Devlin). Before the game, Devlin was reading our starting lineup and noted that Hibbert was in this time. His explanation for the switch: "And you'll see that Hibbert is getting the start this time around...that's because Danny Granger likes it better that way."

Good reporting.

jhondog28
02-03-2010, 11:06 AM
They're COMPLETE idiots (particularly Devlin). Before the game, Devlin was reading our starting lineup and noted that Hibbert was in this time. His explanation for the switch: "And you'll see that Hibbert is getting the start this time around...that's because Danny Granger likes it better that way."

Good reporting.

I thought Danny verbally was saying he did not like playing the four. So to me this statement was true. To be honest the Toronto announcers seem to do a fairt job. They were not nearly as homerish as many others are.

PacerGuy
02-03-2010, 11:15 AM
I remember that game and that thread. I will say that Conner had no idea obviously that he would be coaching that game. Where as last night he had some time to decide what he wanted to do and time to work through a shoot around....

I would add that is is a far cry from carrying out a different "game plan" (what LC did l/n) then installing an entire different "philosophy". If change were that easy you would see a lot more in-season changes by teams.
LC called the game differently (more of an inside attack), but they were still JO'B's plays & were sets the team already knows. He also changed up rotations some, but he still had the same personell w/ the same limited options. The change worked l/n in large part due to the different look we gave them after just playing them a few days ago w/ a completely different "game plan". That, & we just plain played better, pure & simple.
You may be able to get a "feel" for what/ how he would be different, but these small glimpses are likely no real look into what kind of coach or what kind of philosophy LC would bring to the table.
Enjoy the win, but lets not go crazy, Lester Corner is not the answer.

Putnam
02-03-2010, 11:18 AM
:confused: "Made" 84 FGA?"

Shouldn't it be they "took" 84 FGA?


No.




.

Tom White
02-03-2010, 11:30 AM
The big difference in this game? Free throw attempts. In the last game vs. Toronto the Pacers only attempted 20 FT's, and in this game they took 35. Total FGA's & 3pt attempts were really not very different game-to-game. The only other thing that stands out to me is the rebounding. Each team was credited with 46 boards in this game, whereas in the previous game Toronto kicked the Pacers' collective rears by 44-32 on the glass. So, not having seen the whole game, it seems to me that more work was being done inside (boards and drawing fouls) last night.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 11:35 AM
Is this true? The Pacers had 24 assists last night. Season average is 20. Was it evident to those who watched the game?
There was less shooting off of just one ball screen (or worse). Not that it was totally gone, just reduced. There were still times where you hated the shots, but more often than normal I felt like I was seeing an offensive approach closer to what I'd like.

I hate when people absolute things. Yes, go through the game and you'll find some ugly offense. Again, just saying it was modestly reduced.




Josh was pretty unimpressive BTW, just to be clear since some people think I like everything he does. The issue here and his last appearance is low minutes partially, and situation as well.

Not saying this absolves him. I'm saying I don't judge any player off of 2-4 games of 2 minutes here or there. He had a solid run of output with 15-20 minutes earlier this year. 2 minutes of "bleh" last night doesn't undo it.

2 minutes isn't enough burn to feel his game out or to develop him, but at least it's 2 minutes on a team hurting with bigs in foul trouble.




And that last fact is why you still have to be annoyed that Solo also doesn't get time when they clearly need it. Bigs in foul trouble, Raps bigs scoring at will, seems like an easy equation to me. I mean WTF did they sign Solo if not for that exact application?

Justin Tyme
02-03-2010, 11:36 AM
That's a little concerning.

Danny did chuck up an early three with about three minutes to go. Had Toronto gone on a run, that mistake could have been costly. The fact that Danny would argue about it is not good.


I've felt since the beginning of the season Granger has developed an attitude problem. Is it I'm an Allstar now thing or is it I don't like playing Jimmy's game. I, personally, feel he's one of the players that isn't happy that Jimmy got the extension nor does he like playing Jimmy's game. I wouldn't be surprised to see Granger ask to be traded if Jimmy is back next year as coach again. The problem then will be does Bird stand behind is word to get rid of the players who aren't happy, thus not putting egg on his face for not standing behind his word, or does he get rid of Jimmy. If Jimmy is back next season and Granger asks to be traded, there will be a mass riot at Conseco with pitchforks, tar n feathers, and a rail for Bird. It will be an interesting offseason this year. Hopefully, one that makes positive decisions and changes, for the Pacers franchise can ill afford anything else. JMOAA

Justin Tyme
02-03-2010, 11:48 AM
No.


If they "made" 84 Field Goal Attempts, wouldn't the Pacers had a score of 168 on just 2 pt FGA? Yahoo shows the box score as 84 FGA's taken and 44 FG's made.

I don't understand your answer of no. Would you clarify? If I'm incorrect, please show me my error.

dohman
02-03-2010, 12:10 PM
I've felt since the beginning of the season Granger has developed an attitude problem. Is it I'm an Allstar now thing or is it I don't like playing Jimmy's game. I, personally, feel he's one of the players that isn't happy that Jimmy got the extension nor does he like playing Jimmy's game. I wouldn't be surprised to see Granger ask to be traded if Jimmy is back next year as coach again. The problem then will be does Bird stand behind is word to get rid of the players who aren't happy, thus not putting egg on his face for not standing behind his word, or does he get rid of Jimmy. If Jimmy is back next season and Granger asks to be traded, there will be a mass riot at Conseco with pitchforks, tar n feathers, and a rail for Bird. It will be an interesting offseason this year. Hopefully, one that makes positive decisions and changes, for the Pacers franchise can ill afford anything else. JMOAA


To me it seems like granger has the attitude that he can do no wrong and any time someone makes a mistake he wants to give that what the heck are you thinking or doing look. The only problem is, he isnt that good this season because of that attitude.

sweabs
02-03-2010, 12:11 PM
I thought Danny verbally was saying he did not like playing the four. So to me this statement was true. To be honest the Toronto announcers seem to do a fairt job. They were not nearly as homerish as many others are.
Well, if that is true then I suppose we can look forward to seeing Danny continue to play at the 3 when Jim is back on the sidelines. I don't see it happening. Another thing that bothered me from last night was Leo & Matt complaining over the 3 instances of offensive foul calls - where the player turned and someone was standing right there for the charge. They spent a good deal talking about how Amir Johnson's was not a blocking foul...and it had to be called consistently...meanwhile, the replay showed him standing on one foot leaning in to the player - not set at all.

Matt Devlin is one of the worst in the NBA. Not in a homerish way...he just seems clueless as to what is going on at times. And he'll never be able to live this one down in my books:

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DDi3lpvJ8nM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="340" width="560"></object>

Gamble1
02-03-2010, 12:16 PM
So this was my first time being in the second row court side and I have to say it was the best pro sports experience I have ever had. I will go as far as to say that this beats any Colts regular season games I have ever been too.

First off being so near to the action gave me an entirely different perspective which I am sure a number of you have already heard about from others or experienced yourself so I won’t go into too much detail.

Things I learned, 1. Heckling is terribly fun when you know the players can hear you. We had 2 guys maybe 10 feet behind us that were just giving it all day to Chris Bosh and it is contagious let me tell you . Of course I am not sure how much it helped considering he scored a ton of points but it defiantly made the other fans around us enjoy the game a lot more.

2. The guys fall hard and I MEAN HARD. Roy tripped over his own feet and feel 3 feet away from us and you would have thought is arm broke. Maybe it’s the hollow floor but it still sounded like it hurt.

3. Refs make some terrible calls but sitting that close you can let them know “why” it was a terrible call. During the game Price got swatted hard on the wrist/forearm and the ball came out and went out of bounds. OF course no foul was called but I let the ref know that it was a bad no call on his part. He actually turned to me and gave me a sympathy look as to say, “Maybe your right.”

Lastly this night reaffirmed my belief that tanking is the wrong approach for “this” franchise. My friends company couldn’t get one employee to take these tickets. These are $ 20,000 season tickets.

How long do you think they will renew their tickets if multiple seasons are dedicated to tanking? Mind you this is a small company and these tickets are meant to entertain the client. Maybe one season of letting a season go would be ok but certainly tanking begets tanking in a lot of towns and I can’t see the Pacers surviving this approach.

Edit: Sorry for scaring you Gnome.

Speed
02-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Love Danny, but I think losing is getting to him. Also, there must an unwritten rule that the Pacers best player isn't allowed to have outward leadership ability. Even Reggie was lead by example. I just don't want Danny to fall into that JO trap where it becomes a forced thing that isn't natural and then taken as arrogant by his peers and has a negative impact, instead.

Interesting the leadership thing, we talked about this at length all summer. They obviously miss Jarret Jack, I think Earl Watson has stepped up from reports, in a quiet way. My question is this, where else, if anywhere, is leadership coming from? I mean players, I know the easy answer is it should come from the Coaches. And it isn't required to come from your best player, either.

Personally, I see Dunleavy in almost a coaches persona in that he seems to get disgusted by mistakes, but not really adding to the leadership, at all, imo.

Put it this way, if Roy is the Heart of the team (I think most would agree he is), who's the guy upfront leading them?

Lastly, who does it next year? I mean we can talk about that in June, but still it is a valid question, I think.

I'd say this, it's not your captains, Dunleavy and Granger.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 12:20 PM
The finger SHH was more all-around so I can see viewing that as "at the bench", but by then it was pretty clear what was going on with that one guy. Everyone could hear him. I turned to Gnome when Roy got fouled and said "let's see what Roy does this time" before the SHH.

Also when the game ended Roy came right over to BOTH Jack and Rasho and hugged, talked to them, and they all looked really happy to see each other. Very classy. He's a good guy which makes his fire and emotion even that more impressive.

15-8-1.5 blocks-2.5 assists and that attitude? You can win titles with him doing that as long as you have that Melo, Wade or Joe Johnson out there. He, Danny and Rush are easily enough to be serious contenders if the could add that #1 guy.

Naptown_Seth
02-03-2010, 12:24 PM
First off being so near to the action gave me an entirely different perspective which I am sure a number of you have already heard about from others or experienced yourself so I won’t go into too much detail.
I believe UB and I had a debate out this a few years ago. I can't afford to always be close, but there is a reason I keep going back to it. NFL I couldn't care less about being closer, but the NBA is a different sport at that level as you now can attest.

The first time I got down that close it was obviously a game changer for me just like it was for you. "Oh, that's what those 2 inches mean" "Oh, that's what they mean when they say he's quicker".

Tiny advantages are huge, much more than they appear from the TV angle or upper levels.

PacerGuy
02-03-2010, 12:31 PM
The first time I got down that close it was obviously a game changer for me just like it was for you. "Oh, that's what those 2 inches mean"

That's what she said!


"Oh, that's what they mean when they say he's quicker"".

And that's what she said next!

:D.....:blush:

jhondog28
02-03-2010, 12:34 PM
I wish I can be that low to see and NBA game. You know whats wierd I dont think I have ever seen Rush's mouth move during a game. I see all the other players say things to eachother and yell and talk, but I never see Rush say anything ever. Dont read into it it is just an observation.

Speed
02-03-2010, 12:51 PM
I wish I can be that low to see and NBA game. You know whats wierd I dont think I have ever seen Rush's mouth move during a game. I see all the other players say things to eachother and yell and talk, but I never see Rush say anything ever. Dont read into it it is just an observation.

From my couch:

He cusses to himself after they call a foul on him, often. I always think I can make out an F bomb in there somewhere.

He also acts like he hurt his shoulder after almost any drive to the basket. He'll like semi grimace and stretch his shoulder out.

Not as predominant as the Hansbrough blank stare or the Hibbert blink, but still there.

Man, I need to maybe not watch so closely...

Just observations of things I've seen often.

Gamble1
02-03-2010, 12:57 PM
I believe UB and I had a debate out this a few years ago. I can't afford to always be close, but there is a reason I keep going back to it. NFL I couldn't care less about being closer, but the NBA is a different sport at that level as you now can attest.

The first time I got down that close it was obviously a game changer for me just like it was for you. "Oh, that's what those 2 inches mean" "Oh, that's what they mean when they say he's quicker".

Tiny advantages are huge, much more than they appear from the TV angle or upper levels.
I think it also helps with seeing a players BBIQ or just awareness on the court. This was especially true with how our players defended Belinelli tonight.

Keep it classy Pacerguy

Sookie
02-03-2010, 01:49 PM
Love Danny, but I think losing is getting to him. Also, there must an unwritten rule that the Pacers best player isn't allowed to have outward leadership ability. Even Reggie was lead by example. I just don't want Danny to fall into that JO trap where it becomes a forced thing that isn't natural and then taken as arrogant by his peers and has a negative impact, instead.

Interesting the leadership thing, we talked about this at length all summer. They obviously miss Jarret Jack, I think Earl Watson has stepped up from reports, in a quiet way. My question is this, where else, if anywhere, is leadership coming from? I mean players, I know the easy answer is it should come from the Coaches. And it isn't required to come from your best player, either.

Personally, I see Dunleavy in almost a coaches persona in that he seems to get disgusted by mistakes, but not really adding to the leadership, at all, imo.

Put it this way, if Roy is the Heart of the team (I think most would agree he is), who's the guy upfront leading them?

Lastly, who does it next year? I mean we can talk about that in June, but still it is a valid question, I think.

I'd say this, it's not your captains, Dunleavy and Granger.

Dahntay Jones.

chrisjacobs7
02-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Re: Gamble1's post about sitting closer

Definitely a lot more fun to be courtside. Picked up a center court row 10 off a desperate scalper last night, which was my 3rd time being that close at a Pacers game. I have season tix up in the balcony, and must admit I have a hard time sitting through an entire game without getting bored, but down low it's a lot more fun. I love being able to hear the players, coaches, refs all talking to each other and that is something you just don't get up in the balcony. A lot more fun to watch and cheer for the Pacers when you're that close.

threein73
02-03-2010, 02:02 PM
Like most, I agree JOB needs to go, and I like Lester (partially because of his playoff run with the Pacers in 1994), but at this point no way to tell how he'd be as a head coach. Maybe the answer is to let JOB go soon and give Lester a "try out" as interim coach. For sure it is impossible to tell based on last night, that wasn't even the normal "honeymoon" for a coach, more like a "one night stand" (all good!), but he definately may be a consideration...

gummy
02-03-2010, 03:58 PM
I wish I can be that low to see and NBA game. You know whats wierd I dont think I have ever seen Rush's mouth move during a game. I see all the other players say things to eachother and yell and talk, but I never see Rush say anything ever. Dont read into it it is just an observation.

My observation is that Rush talks to DJones quite a bit (especially during free throws when they are both off the line) and Hibbert and Watson a fair amount.

Bball
02-03-2010, 04:21 PM
I wish I can be that low to see and NBA game.

Most Pacer fans are pretty low these days.

bellisimo
06-10-2010, 08:00 AM
bump

Unclebuck
06-10-2010, 08:11 AM
just to increase the sample size a bit, it's worth noting that lester conner has already coached another game this season (sort of), after obie got tossed in the first quarter in a loss to the cavs last november.

at the time, no one on the board seemed particularly impressed with lester's coaching. link here (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=48439).

OK, it was his first game when many of those most critical of O'Brien were also critical of Conner in the first game

Overall, you cannot judge soemone by one game as Imentioned earlier in this thread, it takes a coach 4 weeks of training camp and preseason to put in his system, so I don't see how Conner was able to "put in" any real changes in 1 game

bellisimo
06-10-2010, 08:18 AM
Buck, I think most people would say that JOB is on the furthest right/left one can imagine. Moving just a bit closer to the center can seem like a big change - and in one game Lester did that by going for shots "inside the 3pt" moreso than usual.

This is all just a summary of what i've read from the boards though...didn't catch this game...

Unclebuck
06-10-2010, 08:27 AM
- and in one game Lester did that by going for shots "inside the 3pt" moreso than usual.



I don't want to get into a big thing about this.

But how do we know Lester did that. You would have to see a whole season of statistical analysis to see if there were other games when the pacers shot even more shots inside the three point line and moving the ball more........often times the defense dictates what shots the offense will take. Maybe ther Raptors adjusted their defense or more likely their
defense just wasn't nearly as good as the night before

also what about the other game Lester coached

bellisimo
06-10-2010, 08:28 AM
I don't want to get into a big thing about this.

But how do we know Lester did that. You would have to see a whole season of statistical analysis to see if there were other games when the pacers shot even more shots inside the three point line and moving the ball more........often times the defense dictates what shots the offense will take. Maybe ther Raptors adjusted their defense or more likely their
defense just wasn't nearly as good as the night before

also what about the other game Lester coached

I was just summarizing the thread more than anything. :)