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pacers74
02-01-2010, 12:08 AM
I don't follow Kentucky that closely, but with John Wall I try to watch them when ever they are on. If we don't get a top 3 pick and DeMarcus is there when we pick I think he would be a good pick up. In the beginning of the season they were saying he was very raw. Now he is sarting to dominate on the inside. In their last 4 games he has gone for a double double. He scored 27 and 21 in their last 2 games. I think he could play the 4 in the NBA and be a force. I know he has fouling problems and he got into it with lousiville a couple of weeks ago. He is a freshman and hopefully he will mature.



http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/plyr_15.html

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KnicksRGarbage
02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I would agree, but.. Ive also heard he has had A LOT of off court issues and such. I read about it on here somewhere, but like I said Ive heard hes got some issues.

but as a player, yeah, i think the guys a good player for sure.

cdash
02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I don't follow Kentucky that closely, but with John Wall I try to watch them when ever they are on. If we don't get a top 3 pick and DeMarcus is there when we pick I think he would be a good pick up. In the beginning of the season they were saying he was very raw. Now he is sarting to dominate on the inside. In their last 4 games he has gone for a double double. He scored 27 and 21 in their last 2 games. I think he could play the 4 in the NBA and be a force. I know he has fouling problems and he got into it with lousiville a couple of weeks ago. He is a freshman and hopefully he will mature.



http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/plyr_15.html

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Yeah, we've discussed him quite a bit in the draft thread, which is where I suspect this post will get moved to. General feeling: He's got great talent and he's a beast inside, but his attitude is a ginormous red flag.

Dr. Awesome
02-01-2010, 12:50 AM
Yeah, we've discussed him quite a bit in the draft thread, which is where I suspect this post will get moved to. General feeling: He's got great talent and he's a beast inside, but his attitude is a ginormous red flag.

At this point, I could care less about attitude, he has talent. I'd rather relive the years of all our players in legal trouble than go through another season of this crap. At least we were winning then and no team wanted to play us.

Right now, we are the laughing stock of the NBA. Of all the teams out there, there are very few as bad as we are with a future as bleak as ours. Most teams have 2-3 young players they know they can build around. I'm starting to think we can't even build around Granger, even moreso with Obie moving Roy to the bench and Brandon Rush's inconsistant play. We won't sign a big FA and yet our team is still trying to win making me think we won't even get a good draft pick.

I don't know about ya'll, but I'd rather be winning. Attitude or not.

Hicks
02-01-2010, 12:59 AM
Seeking to reconstruct the "Jail Pacers" years would be a disaster, Dr. Awesome.

Dr. Awesome
02-01-2010, 01:07 AM
Seeking to reconstruct the "Jail Pacers" years would be a disaster, Dr. Awesome.

At least they won.

At the same time, I highly doubt getting a few guys with attitude problems will lead to the same problems we had in the past. I don't see Cousin's being involved in shootouts or going into the stands, as far as I know he just has a short temper(correct me if there is something else).

Honestly though, if my choice is "Jail Pacers" and winning or model citizens and losing, I'll take the "Jail Pacers" every day of the week. We thought it was bad when we were the "Jail Pacers" - this is the lowest our attendance has ever been(if I was informed correctly). These model citizens clearly aren't bringing people to the games. I realize a lot of it has to do with the economy, but you don't see teams with records like ours bringing in many fans anyway. What happens if they are forced to sell the team because of that?

I don't know. For me, this is my all time low point as a Pacers fan. A lot of it has to do with O'Brien, but he will be with us for at least 1 more year, I'm worried Bird may give him even more than that.

Who knows, maybe Cousins will be the next Sprewell and choke the coach. ;-)

cdash
02-01-2010, 01:09 AM
I'm all about getting some guys who aren't boy scouts, but Cousins might very well be bat**** insane.

pacers74
02-01-2010, 01:27 AM
I want to get the most talented player available when we draft. Bird has been playing it safe the last 2 years. Cousins might be crazy, but he is turning into a beast at Kentucky.

Hoop
02-01-2010, 02:00 AM
Cousin's is a monster both in a good way and bad way. He's a young Al Horford with maybe even more potential. I wish he had Horford's good nature and likeable personality. If he keeps progressing this fast he could end up being #2 to Wall's #1 by season's end, or maybe I'm getting carried away on his potential talent.

On the other hand Calipari needs to get him under control are he's not going to last the season in college basketball without being suspended. Calipari should have sent him to the locker room a few times already this season. The dude is out of control and has some serious attitude problems. He is very Artest like, the crazy parts.

I would love for the Pacers to be able to draft a talent like that, but I'm not sure about the risk. If all the bad things had not previously happened we could risk it, but I'm just not so sure now.

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 06:12 AM
At this point, I could care less about attitude, he has talent. I'd rather relive the years of all our players in legal trouble than go through another season of this crap. At least we were winning then and no team wanted to play us.

Right now, we are the laughing stock of the NBA. Of all the teams out there, there are very few as bad as we are with a future as bleak as ours. Most teams have 2-3 young players they know they can build around. I'm starting to think we can't even build around Granger, even moreso with Obie moving Roy to the bench and Brandon Rush's inconsistant play. We won't sign a big FA and yet our team is still trying to win making me think we won't even get a good draft pick.

I don't know about ya'll, but I'd rather be winning. Attitude or not.


Short memory yeah? The Pacers were the laughing stock then too. Those players are what drove the casual fans away. No, I don't like losing, but I can stomach it better with choir type than the alterative type.

Ask Herb Simon how the type of players you have described has cost him in the pocketbook and in the image of this franchise? It was due to them that this franchise is where it is now.

Yeah, let's go back to that type of players again. IN GREEN!

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 06:19 AM
At least they won.


Honestly though, if my choice is "Jail Pacers" and winning or model citizens and losing, I'll take the "Jail Pacers" every day of the week.


Winning at all and any cost attitude isn't the answer. It may be for you, but ownership and the City of Indianapolis can ill afford it.

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 06:24 AM
Cousin's is a monster both in a good way and bad way. He's a young Al Horford with maybe even more potential. I wish he had Horford's good nature and likeable personality. If he keeps progressing this fast he could end up being #2 to Wall's #1 by season's end, or maybe I'm getting carried away on his potential talent.

On the other hand Calipari needs to get him under control are he's not going to last the season in college basketball without being suspended. Calipari should have sent him to the locker room a few times already this season. The dude is out of control and has some serious attitude problems. He is very Artest like, the crazy parts.

I would love for the Pacers to be able to draft a talent like that, but I'm not sure about the risk. If all the bad things had not previously happened we could risk it, but I'm just not so sure now.


Cousin's showed is darkside Saturday on national tv. Calipari can't keep him reigned in so how is JO'B and Bird going to be able when Cousins has a guaranteed contract worth millions?

NapTonius Monk
02-01-2010, 09:42 AM
Which likely means he'll fall out of the lottery, since most teams will shy away from the volatility. Which also means he'll probably fall to San Antonio, who will jump on him with both feet, add some much needed structure to him, and have Duncan's replacement for years to come.

Lance George
02-01-2010, 09:44 AM
With his talent and upside, he'd have to kill multiple people to fall outside of the lottery, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Golden State took a shot with him.

lil lebowsky
02-01-2010, 10:35 AM
DeMarcus Cousins will be a top 5 pick in this draft, and once the draft comes about he could possibly go 2. This is a guy who has been the best big man prospect for about 3 years now. He was the best player in high school at his position since his sophomore year. I have not heard anything about his character issues, but he is coached by Calipari, just like Shawne Williams was, so you do have to take that into consideration. But this guy is super talented, and if he's available, he's exactly what i want. If we get a real coach that can coach a half court set, than Hibbert and Cousins down low would be a force to be reckoned with.

I Love P
02-01-2010, 10:45 AM
I would take Cousins as high as number 3. I think this dude is gonna be a beast. He is a force downlow and can hit free throws. He shot Kentucky's technical foul shots on Saturday. The one thing he can do which the Pacers need is REBOUND. Him next to Big Hibs would be the next big thing.....twin towers.

6 days away.

Currently hold the 5th worst record and I love every minute of it.

Lance George
02-01-2010, 11:59 AM
There's a great, up-to-date scouting report on Cousins (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Cousins-1318/stats/) at Draft Express:


#1 in PER (actually ranking #1 in the last 8 years in that category), Points per-40 minutes pace adjusted, rebounds per-40p, field goals made and second in free throw attempts, Cousins has answered his many critics by going out and producing in unbelievable fashion.

For the record, that 'last 8 years' means the entire history of DX's existence.

If it weren't for the character issues, I think he'd probably go #1, ahead of his more hyped teammate, John Wall.

Sparhawk
02-01-2010, 12:21 PM
I'm sure Hans can keep Cousins in line. After all, Hansbrough is a little bit crazy too.

judicata
02-01-2010, 02:13 PM
All I can say is watch the kid play a game and look at how he interacts with his coach, teammates, and the refs. There is no way you want that on your team. This draft is too deep at the 4 to double down on a headcase.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2010, 02:37 PM
At least they won.


Cousins isn't the only guy in the Pacers draft range that could have a strong impact on their ability.

I think you are one of the guys that disagrees with me on Patterson, but he's not that far off of Favors in size and 10 times as mature as Cousins. Monroe is too soft for my taste but much quicker than Cousins and goes off the dribble far better.

Heck, if you only need defensive help from the bigs then Ndiaye gets you pretty far. He's a big boy himself and a strong shot blocker. He's a better version of Thabeet and might slip out past 15th even.

Robinson is a wing but he's already proven out his maturing process when he took the scrap metal job to appease Calhoun.

Too many other good, highly talented guys out there to go for a guy not that far off of David Harrison. Hulk was big too, very quick and of course could never get his temper under control. Cousins good in college, not quite, but not some pathetic 2nd rate version either.

We laugh off Harrison NOW because he blew it with his temper. We might be doing the same thing with Cousins in a few years while talking about "what could have been".

Coop
02-01-2010, 05:40 PM
You can tell who has watched Cousins play for any amount of time and who hasn't. I wouldn't touch the guy with a 1st round pick. He has the talent to be a top 3 pick, but there's no way I'm drafting him unless I have the option of completely cutting ties with him if need be (i.e. no guaranteed contract). The guy has all the potential in the world, but he will be a bigger headache than Ron Artest.

I Love P
02-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Doubt it, you're wrong.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2010, 10:20 PM
And Cousins might make it just fine, even be a great center for someone. It's not about "100% fail", it's about 50% fail or 40% fail when other options come with less risk at that same spot.

I've done the prospect thing 3 years now and inevitably I see the same thing with some people every year - too focused on all the good and not really sweating the negative or the total game issues.


Let's see KY play TX and Cousins face Pittman perhaps, or even KS and Aldrich. Let's see KY deal with both Favors and Lawal. Let's see him keep his cool when challeged by those kinds of bigs.


BTW, John Wall after the Vandy game

"I just try not to listen to him (Calipari) and go out and play basketball and try and help my team win," Wall said Saturday.

Coop
02-01-2010, 10:22 PM
Doubt it, you're wrong.

:rolleyes: How convincing.

Watch the games. Cousins is a ticking time bomb. The forearm he gave to the Louisville player a couple weeks ago makes it pretty clear the guy has attitude issues. I have no doubt he is one of the most talented players in college basketball. But, after dealing with all the questionable characters we've had in Indy in the past decade, I wouldn't want any part of Cousins on this team.

I Love P
02-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Yea I watched the game, when you are getting double and trippled teamed its quite frustrating. People on your back and hacking you at all times you might get a little pissed and throw an elbow to move them back, nothing wrong with that. I've watched plenty of Kentucky games and have not seen this "animal" in him. He'll be just fine once he gets in the league. Has he gotten in any trouble this year? Has he even picked up a T? I dont remember the last person that entered the league that was a head case. The NBA for the most part these days is pretty clean, besides the latest iggrnorance from Arenas and Critt.

Roaming Gnome
02-01-2010, 11:35 PM
Doesn't matter.... PS&E won't touch this guy with a 10' pole on his reputation alone. Nothing says you learned your lesson like drafting a "known" knucklehead. For most other franchises, Cousins isn't that much of a risk as he is to this one. This fanbase.... Cousins might as well be the anti-christ.

Dr. Awesome
02-01-2010, 11:41 PM
Cousins isn't the only guy in the Pacers draft range that could have a strong impact on their ability.

I think you are one of the guys that disagrees with me on Patterson, but he's not that far off of Favors in size and 10 times as mature as Cousins. Monroe is too soft for my taste but much quicker than Cousins and goes off the dribble far better.



I realize he isn't. I just think he'd be a very good PF next to Hibbert. I am one of those that disagree with you on Patterson, but I'm not a big Favors guy either. I wasn't a big fan of Beasley either. I'm just not much into hybrid PF's, unless their name is Antwan Jamison, Josh Smith, or to a lesser degree David West. I like strong post PF's. I'm not even a big Dirk fan, I know he's good, don't get me wrong, just not my style - even though I was compared to him at UNC basketball camp. :-p

imawhat
02-02-2010, 12:13 AM
It's too bad he has the worst attitude I've ever seen from a player. His strength would be great on our team.

Lance George
02-02-2010, 12:17 AM
I don't see anything wrong with throwing some vicious elbows on the court. Karl Malone made a career out of it. If the fan punching incident is true, well then that's taking things to a whole different, unacceptable level, obviously.

cdash
02-02-2010, 01:04 AM
I realize he isn't. I just think he'd be a very good PF next to Hibbert. I am one of those that disagree with you on Patterson, but I'm not a big Favors guy either. I wasn't a big fan of Beasley either. I'm just not much into hybrid PF's, unless their name is Antwan Jamison, Josh Smith, or to a lesser degree David West. I like strong post PF's. I'm not even a big Dirk fan, I know he's good, don't get me wrong, just not my style - even though I was compared to him at UNC basketball camp. :-p

In today's NBA, I think Cousins is a 5, easy.

judicata
02-02-2010, 04:03 AM
Yea I watched the game, when you are getting double and trippled teamed its quite frustrating. People on your back and hacking you at all times you might get a little pissed and throw an elbow to move them back, nothing wrong with that. I've watched plenty of Kentucky games and have not seen this "animal" in him. He'll be just fine once he gets in the league. Has he gotten in any trouble this year? Has he even picked up a T? I dont remember the last person that entered the league that was a head case. The NBA for the most part these days is pretty clean, besides the latest iggrnorance from Arenas and Critt.

Cousins has been T'd up 3 times to my knowledge.

Look, I know his stats are nuts. But so is he. This is something you are not going to see in the box score. Watch the game and see how he interacts with other players, teammates, coaches, and refs.

This team does not have the personalities or leadership to reign this guy in, either. Granted, Calipari never has his guys in lockstep, but the Pacers cannot take this gamble.

Drafting a guy with know attitude issues who is uncoachable, jaws at the refs and his team, and picks up T's is not going to go over well. Especially if a couple of the other PFs that are picked up in the top 10 produces at a similar clip.