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jhondog28
01-31-2010, 09:28 PM
Dun, Rush and Hibbert looked good. Defense was awful by everyone. Murphy started again. Lots to talk about on this one.

Cobalt_Colt
01-31-2010, 09:38 PM
I miss Jack 6 assists, 16 points shot 75% and 3 for 3 from 3........... we should have paid him. I'd much rather have him then both D.Jones and Watson.

Infinite MAN_force
01-31-2010, 09:43 PM
Is it crazy, or when I'm listening to Mark Boyle lament the fact that D Jones is matched up on Chris Bosh and getting absolutlely abused, perhaps you throw Josh out there for a better match up? You know, like... play a big man at a big spot?

Is that insanity? Obviously Murphy should be our starting center, He only had the worst plus minus on the team AGAIN and by a wide margin!!!!!!

I. Don't. Understand. This. Coach...

Dr. Awesome
01-31-2010, 09:53 PM
As if moving Hibbert to the bench and Murphy to the 5 wasn't bad enough, Granger has clearly struggled since being moved to PF.

So not only is he destroying the promise of our young prospect, but also demoralizing our All-Star in the process....for who you ask? Troy Murphy.

This might be more painful to watch than the brawl.

plutarch
01-31-2010, 09:53 PM
Is it crazy, or when I'm listening to Mark Boyle lament the fact that D Jones is matched up on Chris Bosh and getting absolutlely abused, perhaps you throw Josh out there for a better match up? You know, like... play a big man at a big spot?

Is that insanity? Obviously Murphy should be our starting center, He only had the worst plus minus on the team AGAIN and by a wide margin!!!!!!

I. Don't. Understand. This. Coach...


I understand him, we are tanking
20-24 wins this season seems about right with the way things are going

Sookie
01-31-2010, 09:53 PM
Had a shot at winning this one. Terrible subsitutions by Jim O'brien.

I'm not sure whether Granger has quit or he's just struggling. He had previously played well at the four, now he's not. But he wasn't playing that well at the 3 either.

Dun played a little better though, perhaps he's better off starting.

Still have yet to see a Price, Rush, Djones, granger, Hibbert lineup.

I'm a little concerned JOB is trying to get Price to play like AI, which shouldn't be suprising as he wants all of his PG's too play that way. I don't really think he takes bad shots, but he's not creating either. Albiet the ball movement was good when he was in, if he was doing something with the ball..it was trying to score. I've seen him enough to know, that although he's an "all around" type of player and will do what he's told..that's not his game.

vnzla81
01-31-2010, 09:56 PM
Is it crazy, or when I'm listening to Mark Boyle lament the fact that D Jones is matched up on Chris Bosh and getting absolutlely abused, perhaps you throw Josh out there for a better match up? You know, like... play a big man at a big spot?

Is that insanity? Obviously Murphy should be our starting center, He only had the worst plus minus on the team AGAIN and by a wide margin!!!!!!

I. Don't. Understand. This. Coach...

His answer would be like, the "small ball" give us the best chance to win, everytime I think about my family I think about "small ball", Troy can stretch the floor and the "small ball is good for him, also Danny is better when we play "small ball", did I said that we are better when we play "small ball"? :confused:

NapTonius Monk
01-31-2010, 09:57 PM
All I can say is that if the resulting draft pick for this sucktacular season becomes Cole Aldrich, then I'm going to dedicate myself to growing enough hair to pull out by hand. We need some more defensive athleticism on this team.

Bball
01-31-2010, 10:06 PM
I understand him, we are tanking
20-24 wins this season seems about right with the way things are going

We might be tanking but it's not on purpose...

This is what the coach wants to do.... to win. :crazy:

Brad8888
01-31-2010, 10:14 PM
I'm a little concerned JOB is trying to get Price to play like AI. I don't really think he takes bad shots, but he's not creating either. Albiet the ball movement was good when he was in, if he was doing something with the ball..it was trying to score. I've seen him enough to know, that although he's an "all around" type of player and will do what he's told..that's not his game.

I have virtually no doubt that FO'B directs the pg's to do exactly that and always has. There have been too many pg's even during FO'B's time here, let alone elsewhere, who have played similarly under him. He does it to "space the floor" and draw the defense inside intead of defending his precious 3's (27 of those tonight, fortunately hit 10 or it would have been significantly worse). If they can score, great. Otherwise, they are to pass out for 3's, which is easy for fewer players to defend due to recognition on the part of every team in the league of this fact.

gummy
01-31-2010, 10:26 PM
I am so disgusted with the 3pt attempts. So disgusted. Again.

vnzla81
01-31-2010, 10:29 PM
All I can say is that if the resulting draft pick for this sucktacular season becomes Cole Aldrich, then I'm going to dedicate myself to growing enough hair to pull out by hand. We need some more defensive athleticism on this team.

hair from were?

BlueNGold
01-31-2010, 10:34 PM
Is it crazy, or when I'm listening to Mark Boyle lament the fact that D Jones is matched up on Chris Bosh and getting absolutlely abused, perhaps you throw Josh out there for a better match up? You know, like... play a big man at a big spot?

Is that insanity? Obviously Murphy should be our starting center, He only had the worst plus minus on the team AGAIN and by a wide margin!!!!!!

I. Don't. Understand. This. Coach...

D Jones is a lot taller than he looks from your TV. He's listed at 6'5 or so, but with shoes he's closer to 6'9". With high heels at the ball, he's a legit 7 footer. He's also our most athletic big, so JOb has that match-up just right. The fact Solo and McBob got no minutes (again) is because they're too inexperienced to go at a player like Bosh.

Also, we lost this game but our defense did a great job on Bosh. We limited him to 26 points on 60% shooting with 15 boards 7 assists and he only had 2 blocks. The damage would have been much worse with Solo or McBob fouling him and putting him at the line every other play. He probably would have broke 50 tonight.

As for Troy starting at C, this clearly spread the floor and allowed Rush to go off again. Also, Troy shot 66% from 3 tonight and swept the boards once again. It's a shame they are giving minutes to young players though when they could have TJ and Diener out there. That's the part I don't understand. At least they have Troy in there keeping things together.

GO!!!!!
01-31-2010, 10:57 PM
every team must just want to play us now, we are playing worse then Clips and Griz... that's embarassing...

Naptown_Seth
01-31-2010, 11:16 PM
In other news we must lead the league in hurting players on the other team, especially good ones. Turk wiped out just a few games after Nash's busted face, D Harris busted finger, Lebron busted jaw.

Just chance I suppose, but it seems like a higher rate with us.


Well JOB started the lineup he wanted and showed us all. He proved you don't need to use bigs on bigs and that going small gives the team the best chance to win.

If I didn't know better I'd say JOB was doing this to spite us now. Actually I don't know better, I don't know anything at all. I couldn't guess what might come next at this point.

BornReady
01-31-2010, 11:23 PM
D Jones is a lot taller than he looks from your TV. He's listed at 6'5 or so, but with shoes he's closer to 6'9". With high heels at the ball, he's a legit 7 footer. He's also our most athletic big, so JOb has that match-up just right. The fact Solo and McBob got no minutes (again) is because they're too inexperienced to go at a player like Bosh.

Also, we lost this game but our defense did a great job on Bosh. We limited him to 26 points on 60% shooting with 15 boards 7 assists and he only had 2 blocks. The damage would have been much worse with Solo or McBob fouling him and putting him at the line every other play. He probably would have broke 50 tonight.

As for Troy starting at C, this clearly spread the floor and allowed Rush to go off again. Also, Troy shot 66% from 3 tonight and swept the boards once again. It's a shame they are giving minutes to young players though when they could have TJ and Diener out there. That's the part I don't understand. At least they have Troy in there keeping things together.

is this supposed to be in green?

pwee31
01-31-2010, 11:24 PM
It's rough to be a Pacer fan right now. It's not the losing that's getting to me, it's the fact that we have no direction whatsoever.

If there's anything worse then being a bad team, it's not realizing you're a bad team.

Still having playoffs aspirations are fine if you're team is good or playing well. The Pacers haven't been either this season.

We're not letting our young players go through growing pains, and we're not seeing what we have with our end of the bench guys. We're playing everyone out of position, to the point where we can't even get the players that will be around long term chemistry at the rightful positions.

I understand testing Granger at PF in certain situations, but he's not a d*** POWER FORWARD! If Granger isn't a PF how the **** in 6'6 Dahntay Jones a power forward?!! You've got to be kidding me.

Murphy can guard the power forwards in this league, by all means let him guard the bigger and more powerful centers.

Earl Watson is a shooting guard at times? Nothing like a shooting guard that can't ****ing SHOOT!

Oh I'm sorry, our 2nd round 6'0 backup PG is the one playing SG.. my mistake douche O'Brien!

All I want is some sign of hope. Some sense of direction that shows light on the horizon. Most 3 year plans build towards that 3rd and final year, not just magically comes together the at the deadline.

I really hope Bird has a big plan up his sleeve that I'm unaware of, b/c I simply don't understand the plan

McKeyFan
01-31-2010, 11:25 PM
There was a very unusual development in tonight's game.

Murph had, by far, the lowest +/- at -28 and Hibbert had the highest at +8. But Murph played far more minutes.

This is extremely puzzling, very unusual. I don't think we've seen anything like this . . .







. . . except for almost every game this entire season.

:rimshot:

Sookie
01-31-2010, 11:29 PM
All I want is some sign of hope. Some sense of direction that shows light on the horizon. Most 3 year plans build towards that 3rd and final year, not just magically comes together the at the deadline.

I really hope Bird has a big plan up his sleeve that I'm unaware of, b/c I simply don't understand the plan

if we're looking for positives..Roy, Rush and Price have all shown potential..and all tend to have positive impacts on the game..even if they are played out of position, asked to do things they shouldn't be asked to do, and underplayed. (and it's funny how that can be applied to all of them..)

So there's hope. There's a future..with some, at the least, solid players.

Pacersfan46
01-31-2010, 11:33 PM
I'm worried about Granger myself. Lately he looks like he got ****ed up worse than home tree.

It's sad to watch, really.

-- Steve --

BlueNGold
01-31-2010, 11:33 PM
is this supposed to be in green?

Shhh! I'm in sell-mode right now and we only have 18 days left until the deadline.

jhondog28
01-31-2010, 11:36 PM
OK guys I am going to play devils advocate here. What line up do yu guys want to see that will work? I am assuming you want McRoberts at the 4 and Price at the point and Hibbert at the 5. Besides that what else do you want. My personal opinion is that this year should just be a do over. I am starting to strongly feel that our top 2 players are playing hurt. We have a rookie point guard and a injured top draft pick and veteran leader. I honestly feel that Phil Jackson couldnt take this team anywhere. I dont want to let JOB off the hook cause I think he hasnt done anything but to me this would be a **** end of the stick to deal with for any NBA coach.

Sookie
01-31-2010, 11:42 PM
OK guys I am going to play devils advocate here. What line up do yu guys want to see that will work? I am assuming you want McRoberts at the 4 and Price at the point and Hibbert at the 5. Besides that what else do you want. My personal opinion is that this year should just be a do over. I am starting to strongly feel that our top 2 players are playing hurt. We have a rookie point guard and a injured top draft pick and veteran leader. I honestly feel that Phil Jackson couldnt take this team anywhere. I dont want to let JOB off the hook cause I think he hasnt done anything but to me this would be a **** end of the stick to deal with for any NBA coach.

Price, Jones, Rush, Granger, Hibbert...A lineup we haven't seen. A lineup of our most talented point guard, best PF, best Center, and best wings. A lineup that has a very good mix of offense and defense. Where the offense spreads the floor with Granger, Price and Rush, can drive with Price and Jones, and has a guy in the Center with Hibbert. A lineup that defensively, very good at the wings, decent at the PG and PF..and therefore can support the center. We haven't seen this lineup because...our freaking coach vaules the 3pt shot too freaking much.

For post, some combination of Granger/Hibbert/Solo/Troy and McBob, making sure Troy and Roy never play together. When (if) Tyler gets back, drop which ever post player is playing the worst..or add him to the mix.

Dun Head and Watson backing up the frontcourt, maybe putting Granger there at some point too. (I wouldn't mind seeing a Price/Rush/Granger/mcBob/Hibbert lineup for example)

We aren't that talanted, but we're better than this. His adjustments and coachiing decisions are awful. And certain players definitely seem to have quit on the coach. There doesn't seem to be a fight there..or pride.

I don't know what that group would do *my suggested lineup* but I'm pretty positive it'd be better than what we are getting now.

pwee31
01-31-2010, 11:49 PM
OK guys I am going to play devils advocate here. What line up do yu guys want to see that will work? I am assuming you want McRoberts at the 4 and Price at the point and Hibbert at the 5. Besides that what else do you want. My personal opinion is that this year should just be a do over. I am starting to strongly feel that our top 2 players are playing hurt. We have a rookie point guard and a injured top draft pick and veteran leader. I honestly feel that Phil Jackson couldnt take this team anywhere. I dont want to let JOB off the hook cause I think he hasnt done anything but to me this would be a **** end of the stick to deal with for any NBA coach.

If Tyler was healthy

Price
Rush
Granger
Hansbrough
Hibbert

That would be my starting lineup the rest of the year

I think before the deadline you have to get value out of Murphy though so i say start.

Price
Rush
Granger
Murphy
Hibbert

I know Murphy and Hibbert haven't played well together, but you have to play Roy to allow him to grow, and if you plan on trading Murphy, I think you have to play him

I think the key lies in the subs though, you can't bring Dahntay in for Murphy. You need to see Solo or McRoberts, and I think Solo should be in for Hibbert at the center spot.

You really miss a healthy Foster this year to play some minutes at the center postion, but it may also be a blessing in disguise, b/c there's no doubt in my mind Hibbert wouldn't have gotten close to the minutes he has gotten if J'Ob had a healthy Foster at his disposable

Though our roster needs a good deal of tweaking when it comes to our big contracts, I think any move made is lateral with O'Brien as coach... he just doesn't get it

Bball
01-31-2010, 11:56 PM
OK guys I am going to play devils advocate here. What line up do yu guys want to see that will work?

If the coach is going to yell:
"Push Push Push" or "Attack Attack Attack" and demand quick shots and lots of 3's.... then there is no lineup on this team that I'd recommend.

Bad basketball and bad coaching go hand in hand. It's hard to find a player to overcome bad coaching... let alone a team of players to overcome it. Worse, the team can't progress or be properly evaluated while playing for a bad coach. I'm surprised the team tried for as long as they did for him all things considered. But there was clearly no method to the madness of his first two season. Just bad basketball...

Sparhawk
02-01-2010, 12:20 AM
Not a bad game I watched tonight...oh wait, I didn't watch it.

The Pacers actually got to the line tonight and limited turnovers. Rush has been playing much better on the offensive side, but he's going to have to keep it up longer than 5 games for me to say he's improving.

I really never thought I'd say this, but good lord, do I hate the 3-pt shot.

This team should be playing the "future" guys together and start building team chemistry. Why the hell isn't this happening? The coach knows that the playoffs are not happening, so why does he keep playing to win games. Losing sucks, but you have to start playing the guys that are the future together in the same lineup.

Just boggles the mind with what Larry and JOB are trying to do with the team.

cdash
02-01-2010, 12:25 AM
Conspiracy theory: It has been relayed to Obie from TPTB that we are in tank mode. The challenge? Make it seem as if we aren't tanking. You take the fall with the media, explain to them your asinine moves and curious substitution patterns, and we will reward you by letting you come back to coach us next season.

Sookie
02-01-2010, 12:28 AM
Not a bad game I watched tonight...oh wait, I didn't watch it.

The Pacers actually got to the line tonight and limited turnovers. Rush has been playing much better on the offensive side, but he's going to have to keep it up longer than 5 games for me to say he's improving.

I really never thought I'd say this, but good lord, do I hate the 3-pt shot.

This team should be playing the "future" guys together and start building team chemistry. Why the hell isn't this happening? The coach knows that the playoffs are not happening, so why does he keep playing to win games. Losing sucks, but you have to start playing the guys that are the future together in the same lineup.

Just boggles the mind with what Larry and JOB are trying to do with the team.

Maybe they are tanking.

I mean really, at this point..that's the only explanation for putting our shooting guard at the power forward position.

Whatever you think of McBob..he's a better option at the 4 than Dahntay.

pacers74
02-01-2010, 01:50 AM
Maybe they are tanking.

I mean really, at this point..that's the only explanation for putting our shooting guard at the power forward position.

Whatever you think of McBob..he's a better option at the 4 than Dahntay.


With Tyler and Jeff out you think McRoberts would get back up power forward minutes 15-20 minutes maybe. He was getting that at the end of Dec and the beginning of Jan. Now his minutes are falling off again with a DNP tonight. When he plays he gives a tone of energy and he has a descent offensive game (He can jump out of the gym). He should be getting some minutes come the fans love him.

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 06:33 AM
every team must just want to play us now, we are playing worse then Clips and Griz... that's embarassing...


:confused: I wish the Pacers were playing the level of Memphis, and had their players! I said last year and the beginning of this year when Memphis wasn't playing well I really liked their team. They have Tinsley and 3 rookies as their bench. Next year they need to improve their bench for a nice playoff push.

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 06:55 AM
It's rough to be a Pacer fan right now. It's not the losing that's getting to me, it's the fact that we have no direction whatsoever.

If there's anything worse then being a bad team, it's not realizing you're a bad team.

Still having playoffs aspirations are fine if you're team is good or playing well. The Pacers haven't been either this season.

We're not letting our young players go through growing pains, and we're not seeing what we have with our end of the bench guys. We're playing everyone out of position, to the point where we can't even get the players that will be around long term chemistry at the rightful positions.

I understand testing Granger at PF in certain situations, but he's not a d*** POWER FORWARD! If Granger isn't a PF how the **** in 6'6 Dahntay Jones a power forward?!! You've got to be kidding me.

Murphy can guard the power forwards in this league, by all means let him guard the bigger and more powerful centers.

Earl Watson is a shooting guard at times? Nothing like a shooting guard that can't ****ing SHOOT!

Oh I'm sorry, our 2nd round 6'0 backup PG is the one playing SG.. my mistake douche O'Brien!

All I want is some sign of hope. Some sense of direction that shows light on the horizon. Most 3 year plans build towards that 3rd and final year, not just magically comes together the at the deadline.

I really hope Bird has a big plan up his sleeve that I'm unaware of, b/c I simply don't understand the plan


Personally, I hoping the big plan up Bird's sleeve is he's planning on not being here next season. We can all sit and type our complaints about O'Brien and his smallball game, but Bird is his enabler that allows it to happen. Bird is the one that picked up Jimmy's team option for next year w/o even considering to wait to see how the season would go. That major blunder of Bird is costing this team now in wins, and the future in salary after he fires O'Brien. I'm not sure who is more stubborn O'Brien or Bird in not admitting their mistakes and changing what needs to be changed for the " good of the Pacers."

Justin Tyme
02-01-2010, 07:06 AM
Conspiracy theory: It has been relayed to Obie from TPTB that we are in tank mode. The challenge? Make it seem as if we aren't tanking. You take the fall with the media, explain to them your asinine moves and curious substitution patterns, and we will reward you by letting you come back to coach us next season.


Why so he can ruin the what's left of this team and a new draft pick too? I'm hoping there is going to be a big change in the FO along with the coach.

D-BONE
02-01-2010, 07:36 AM
Price, Jones, Rush, Granger, Hibbert...A lineup we haven't seen. A lineup of our most talented point guard, best PF, best Center, and best wings. A lineup that has a very good mix of offense and defense. Where the offense spreads the floor with Granger, Price and Rush, can drive with Price and Jones, and has a guy in the Center with Hibbert. A lineup that defensively, very good at the wings, decent at the PG and PF..and therefore can support the center. We haven't seen this lineup because...our freaking coach vaules the 3pt shot too freaking much.

.

I'll give you that I'd like to see that lineup, but I'm not so sure I'd call that decent at PG by NBA standards. I don't think this lineup would translate into more winning. I do think we might as well work with Price given everthing else we've got.

DG at PF is good in some situation, bad in others. When it's bad, and given his play of late in either case, that may not be decent either.

I dislike the coaching as much as the next guy, but this collection of talent is awful. If you had Jack on this team, then you could legitimately talk playoff contention. As it is, this is about a 30 win(ish) team.

So if we can get more of certain players, I'm all for it. Whether any combo we can put out there now would be decent, I highly doubt.

cinotimz
02-01-2010, 08:08 AM
Conspiracy theory: It has been relayed to Obie from TPTB that we are in tank mode. The challenge? Make it seem as if we aren't tanking. You take the fall with the media, explain to them your asinine moves and curious substitution patterns, and we will reward you by letting you come back to coach us next season.

Im now totally convinced that is almost the plan. Except the part where he coaches next season. He got extended in exchange for tanking this season and being made the scapegoat. Thats why he will finish the season. And be fired the day following. Nothing like a top 5 draft pick and firing the coach to give people a little hope.

geetee
02-01-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm holding on to hope that we're playing these lineups up until the trade deadline for show casing purposes.

McKeyFan
02-01-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm holding on to hope that we're playing these lineups up until the trade deadline for show casing purposes.

That's a good one. That should get us through the next three weeks. Thanks.

Brad8888
02-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Conspiracy theory: It has been relayed to Obie from TPTB that we are in tank mode. The challenge? Make it seem as if we aren't tanking. You take the fall with the media, explain to them your asinine moves and curious substitution patterns, and we will reward you by letting you come back to coach us next season.

I like this theory but with one tweak. FO'B actually has full knowledge that he will be fired this offseason. He was given the extension as a gift for tanking and will use that money as a severance package for transitioning to whatever other job he can get, like back into the broadcast booth, or possibly as a sales associate trainer for JD Byrider.

A great gig if you can get it. Travel, see the country, get to watch professional basketball in the best seats in the house in every single NBA arena in the country (often with opposing players playing at career best levels) for 82 games, while just yelling "Push! Push! Push!" or "Attack! Attack! Attack!" and complaining to the officials like any fan would, just with a better seat.

For practices, make the guys play at full speed to tire them out to reduce effectiveness for games early in the season until the schedule gets heavy, with a primary focus on defense, and then run them as hard as possible and have them take as many shots as possible before the flow of the offense gets set up so that no rhythm or continuity is established. Then, complain about the heavy schedule and how your players are exhausted.

Sometimes shots will fall early in the season and you'll win some games, and also during certain other stretches during the season, but with decreasing frequency as the season progresses. Rely on the players performance based incentives in their contracts to make them individually selfish in their play while motivating them to keep putting up shots while having only one player, Murphy, care about getting rebounds.

Have the front office at turns chastise the players for not playing for the coach, threatening them with being traded while supporting the coach, and then recognize that we may be shooting a few more threes than we should be and that our performance is not acceptable. Have your best players play in lethargic ways that are completely uncharacteristic for them after they come back from injury or illness and perform at a high level for a few games just after having praised them in the media for doing so, especially calling one of those a basketball genius which was nearly immediately followed by turnover plagued brick fests that he had no explanation for whatsoever. Also, have a lingering illness that is impossible to disprove afflict the one young player that it appeared you were trying to develop after having him finally get to play after aggravating an injury he had sustained back in college. And, have one of the most popular long term players currently with the franchise basically end his season due to back injuries while not even keeping the fanbase informed about his condition. Why else would there have been any rumors regarding potential trades for him unless he is actually healthy after all?

Also, exile the single untradeable player who epitomizes your pg approach while simultaneously praising him in the media to increase his potential "trade value" so that your attack becomes even more one dimensional, while claiming to still be driving the ball. Also, bench other players randomly in a nonsensical fashion after they perform well enough to help the team perform better during games, and discourage further positive development in both young players as well as vets like Dahntay by minimizing their impact and contributions with benching and reduction in playing time after they show signs of leadership qualities.

No, all of this combined stretches the bounds of credibility for even the most paranoid of conspiracy theorists I would suspect. It would require too much buy-in from too many people on a consistent long term basis.

Sure would be nice if that is the case, though, because our future would be very bright indeed if we could pull all of that off without getting caught, and my hat would be off to the entire organization for pulling one of the biggest franchise "turnarounds" in NBA history upon its completion. :devil: :)

McKeyFan
02-01-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't believe the tanking conspiracies.

JOB wants to win. JOB has one angle for defeating opponents: his uptempo style that relies on the three. If he switches to a traditional philosophy, he will feel like he has no advantage on the opposing coaches.

Everything is falling in on him. Like BBall keeps saying, it's bad basketball.

Sookie
02-01-2010, 01:07 PM
I'll give you that I'd like to see that lineup, but I'm not so sure I'd call that decent at PG by NBA standards. I don't think this lineup would translate into more winning. I do think we might as well work with Price given everthing else we've got.

DG at PF is good in some situation, bad in others. When it's bad, and given his play of late in either case, that may not be decent either.

I dislike the coaching as much as the next guy, but this collection of talent is awful. If you had Jack on this team, then you could legitimately talk playoff contention. As it is, this is about a 30 win(ish) team.

So if we can get more of certain players, I'm all for it. Whether any combo we can put out there now would be decent, I highly doubt.

We can argue whether AJ is decent at PG, I'm sure. With many people coming up with different conclusions.

What I don't think is that much of a debate, is that he's our best option at PG.

McKeyFan
02-01-2010, 03:22 PM
Offensively.

He can be good defensively but has some things to learn. Nash schooled him and Calderon burned him a couple times last night.

Bball
02-01-2010, 03:39 PM
I don't believe the tanking conspiracies.


I don't either... This is not how you 'tank'.

You tank by trading away players that aren't part of the future but are only win now players. You tank by playing youth, developing and evaluating them, living thru their mistakes (to give them a consistent place in the rotation). If you do see one needing the bench for motivation, or not deserving of his minutes after trying everything from the drill sergeant routine to milk and cookies, then you replace him with more youth (or trade him for the sake of trading)... not replace him with a vet who has no place in the future plans. (You can play vets, but you don't maximize their minutes).

You sit injured players and milk it while they are injured until they are fully healed and conditioned (especially vets)... not allow them back on the court at the earliest possible moment. (While it could've been argued that's what we did with Foster, today's news tosses that theory in the dumpster... So look at Granger and Dunleavy instead).

You don't extend a coach you know you are going to fire. You don't do it if you're a cash strapped team and you don't do it if you are a well run organization who handles their finances wisely and are flush with cash. You just don't do it.

The only possible conspiracy theory I would even consider is that the season blew up so badly against the plans that Bird/Morway/Simon had that they've decided to ride it out with O'Brien because they fear a coaching change now might actually improve the W-L record and they now believe O'Brien's failure gives them the best hope at maximum losses this season.

I'd think $$$ reasons would be the more likely answer.