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90'sNBARocked
01-31-2010, 01:29 PM
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm


Another fire sale is reportedly happening with the Indiana Pacers. They are playing poorly and are over the salary cap but not subject to the luxury tax. It has been reported that only All-Star Danny Granger in untouchable.

That means Troy Murphy, a player whom the Cavs covet, according to league sources, is available. He put up 10 points and four rebounds against the Cavs on Friday night. He can score and defend near the basket, averaging 14.1 points and 9.8 rebounds. He will be 30 later this year, and his contract is up in 2011. His contract numbers are almost equivalent to Ilgauskas'. But the word is the Pacers want more than that.

The Pacers SHOULD want more than that, but can they get it?

Cactus Jax
01-31-2010, 01:36 PM
"He can score and defend near the basket"

One of these is not like the other.

90'sNBARocked
01-31-2010, 01:43 PM
"He can score and defend near the basket"

One of these is not like the other.

I dont think Jameson shoots the 3 nearly as good as Murphy, plus there is this


The Wizards have told teams tat they will move anyone on their roster except for Antawn Jamison, who has a sterling reputation and is perhaps their most popular player. He's considered a little soft, but these are hard times in Washington, and the Wizards are in a place no team wants to be, wishing their troubles would just go away.

NICE NICE BABY!!!!!!


Yes Washington you should definitely keep Jameson

Sparhawk
01-31-2010, 06:12 PM
I dont think Jameson shoots the 3 nearly as good as Murphy, plus there is this



NICE NICE BABY!!!!!!


Yes Washington you should definitely keep Jameson

Now all Larry has to do is get Z and a first round pick for Murph and make the trade.

Dr. Awesome
01-31-2010, 06:25 PM
I usually associate the words "fire sell" with panic. Hopefully that is not the case.

I also find it a little concerning that Roy Hibbert wasn't listed as untouchable. Unless we are getting a young All-Star, there is no deal in which we should trade him.

vnzla81
01-31-2010, 06:28 PM
I usually associate the words "fire sell" with panic. Hopefully that is not the case.

I also find it a little concerning that Roy Hibbert wasn't listed as untouchable. Unless we are getting a young All-Star, there is no deal in which we should trade him.

I think that the "fire sell" is for the jerseys and tickets :)

ksuttonjr76
01-31-2010, 07:19 PM
I usually associate the words "fire sell" with panic. Hopefully that is not the case.

I also find it a little concerning that Roy Hibbert wasn't listed as untouchable. Unless we are getting a young All-Star, there is no deal in which we should trade him.

I'm pretty sure Rush and Hibbert are on that list.

tsm612
01-31-2010, 07:37 PM
I usually associate the words "fire sell" with panic. Hopefully that is not the case.

I also find it a little concerning that Roy Hibbert wasn't listed as untouchable. Unless we are getting a young All-Star, there is no deal in which we should trade him.

I'd put AJ Price on the untouchable list as well. Even if they were able to sign an All Star center and point guard, an experienced Roy and AJ would be great off the bench.

Brad8888
01-31-2010, 07:37 PM
The author lost all credibility when he stated that Murphy can score and defend near the basket. Obviously, Murphy's weaknesses are those exact points, where his strength is shooting threes and being the designated defensive rebounder under our system in the absence of Foster.

Oh, well.

avoidingtheclowns
01-31-2010, 07:39 PM
Evacuate all the school children!

Smoothdave1
01-31-2010, 07:47 PM
Article already posted: http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=50472

dlewyus
01-31-2010, 08:20 PM
Now all Larry has to do is get Z and a first round pick for Murph and make the trade.

Not sure I'd want their (very) late first round pick. That's a guaranteed contract to a marginal player. Might as well take a chance on a second rounder that's not guaranteed.

Dr. Awesome
01-31-2010, 08:55 PM
Not sure I'd want their (very) late first round pick. That's a guaranteed contract to a marginal player. Might as well take a chance on a second rounder that's not guaranteed.

This is a fairly deep draft where you could still find talent, it could also be used as a trading chip to move up a spot or two in the lottery.

However, I'd probably take Danny Green over the late 1st. Doubt the Cavs do that though.

cdash
01-31-2010, 11:05 PM
I'd put AJ Price on the untouchable list as well. Even if they were able to sign an All Star center and point guard, an experienced Roy and AJ would be great off the bench.

Stop it.

tsm612
02-01-2010, 01:03 AM
Stop it.

Come on, it's not like I said that TJ Ford or Dunleavy should be on the untouchable list. With so many terrible players, we have to have our priorities. And we also shouldn't trade for the sake of trading, just because we aren't winning games right now.

Roy and AJ may not always be consistent, but if you want consistency then Danny shouldn't be on the list either. They are both young and improving and both show a lot of promise. Even Bird said that AJ would be at the very least a great backup. Before throwing the entire team under the bus, I'd rather focus on the areas where the most improvement is needed. I think the biggest problem is chemistry and before we trade away the whole team, I'd like to see them play with a decent coach.

Dr. Awesome
02-01-2010, 01:14 AM
Come on, it's not like I said that TJ Ford or Dunleavy should be on the untouchable list. With so many terrible players, we have to have our priorities. And we also shouldn't trade for the sake of trading, just because we aren't winning games right now.

Roy and AJ may not always be consistent, but if you want consistency then Danny shouldn't be on the list either. They are both young and improving and both show a lot of promise. Even Bird said that AJ would be at the very least a great backup. Before throwing the entire team under the bus, I'd rather focus on the areas where the most improvement is needed. I think the biggest problem is chemistry and before we trade away the whole team, I'd like to see them play with a decent coach.

You don't average 22+ ppg if your inconsistant. He's just going through a slump, frankly its likely because he is playing out of position.

cdash
02-01-2010, 01:17 AM
Come on, it's not like I said that TJ Ford or Dunleavy should be on the untouchable list. With so many terrible players, we have to have our priorities. And we also shouldn't trade for the sake of trading, just because we aren't winning games right now.

Roy and AJ may not always be consistent, but if you want consistency then Danny shouldn't be on the list either. They are both young and improving and both show a lot of promise. Even Bird said that AJ would be at the very least a great backup. Before throwing the entire team under the bus, I'd rather focus on the areas where the most improvement is needed. I think the biggest problem is chemistry and before we trade away the whole team, I'd like to see them play with a decent coach.

With a team playing as crappy and uninspired as this team, I don't think anyone should be untouchable, including Granger. For me to want to trade Danny, it would have to be a Godfather offer, but I wouldn't hang up the phone when someone said his name.

I just think it's absolute nonsense to put someone like AJ Price on an "untouchable" list. He's a pleasant surprise for a late second round pick, but let's not get carried away here.

Hoop
02-01-2010, 01:20 AM
The "fire sale" is going to be after the season, if JOB is not fired. Fans will storm Conseco and set it on fire!

rexnom
02-01-2010, 01:24 AM
Evacuate all the school children!
Oh the burning! This isn't a fever!

tsm612
02-01-2010, 01:29 AM
With a team playing as crappy and uninspired as this team, I don't think anyone should be untouchable, including Granger. For me to want to trade Danny, it would have to be a Godfather offer, but I wouldn't hang up the phone when someone said his name.

I just think it's absolute nonsense to put someone like AJ Price on an "untouchable" list. He's a pleasant surprise for a late second round pick, but let's not get carried away here.

I completely understand where you're coming from, but my reasoning is that the rookie AJ has been for the most part playing better than the veteran Earl. We have four point guards. If you make a trade, you'd be lucky to get one really good point guard, let alone two. So in the event that we manage one really good point guard, which of our four current point guards would you like to come off the bench? I'm not saying AJ is a future All Star or even our future starter, but I think he's more valuable than the majority of the roster.

cdash
02-01-2010, 01:32 AM
I completely understand where you're coming from, but my reasoning is that the rookie AJ has been for the most part playing better than the veteran Earl. We have four point guards. If you make a trade, you'd be lucky to get one really good point guard, let alone two. So in the event that we manage one really good point guard, which of our four current point guards would you like to come off the bench? I'm not saying AJ is a future All Star or even our future starter, but I think he's more valuable than the majority of the roster.

What about that makes him untouchable? To me, it makes you less willing to trade him, but not completely against the idea.

tsm612
02-01-2010, 01:56 AM
What about that makes him untouchable? To me, it makes you less willing to trade him, but not completely against the idea.

I'm being realistic. They're not going to pull off a trade where they get Chris Paul and Jarrett Jack. And if they could somehow pull off something like that, they wouldn't really have the resources left to fix the rest of the roster. That's why I would keep AJ.

Sookie
02-01-2010, 12:02 PM
Perhaps you'd like a to keep him because..name a better backup point guard that's cheaper.

But honestly, I don't think anyone should be "off" the table. But there are certainly players that you probably want to keep.

We all want to keep Rush..but heck..put Okafor on the table..with having to give up Rush and Murphy..and buh bye.

Honestly, I think A.J. in particular might be the type of player that would get a team to bite on a trade, especially one in the playoffs hunt. Maybe with all the injuries, The Lebrons would be more likely to trade us Hickson and Z for AJ and Murphy..cause let's be honest..any team looking at our collection of PGs, would prefer Price.

Of course then you're stuck with three pretty terrible pgs with absolutely no potential.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Evacuate all the school children!
Based on attendance I think they already have.

:onozomg:

90'sNBARocked
02-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Based on attendance I think they already have.

:onozomg:

Man, its like the season just gets more and more depressing as it goes on

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2010, 12:24 PM
What about that makes him untouchable? To me, it makes you less willing to trade him, but not completely against the idea.
And I think because of that you pull Danny off the untouchable list. Maybe they've just gotten enough bad offers thrown for Danny that they just don't want to hear it.

As for guys like Roy, Rush and now Price, they are going to be the sweetener on the deal, that's why they aren't on the list. The COST of moving Dun or TJ will be Rush or Roy.

That's what a fire sale is. You are selling below market to clear house. There might be some prices that are just too low, but clearly the team is ready to haggle a bit and wants to send the signal that they are willing to talk.



If the Pacers have a Big Z and first round pick 2010 offer for Troy it should already be done. I don't think they are in a position of strength to hold out for anything more than this. That move would save them AT LEAST $18m next year if Troy ends up being part of what bumps them 1-2m over the lux tax. Add in a possible minor savings on a Big Z buyout for the remainder of this year.


I know Dun and Troy have their supporters and people hate Jackson, but the fair evaluation here on the GSW trade is that this is STILL fallout from it. We are talking about maybe having to use Rush or Roy to move Dun and hoping someone will take Troy for nothing but our own savings.

GSW got more than that for Jackson and the dude had openly asked to be traded.

Of course that was part of the last "fire sale" they had, the "OMG we must move Jackson and Al ASAP or the team will explode" instead of playing it cool and letting fans boo away until a more suitable deal could be found.

The financials and W/L profile for both Dun and Troy have just been brutal to the team. You can debate effort and attitude and effectiveness all you want, but the Win% both here and GSW stares back at you, as do those contracts. They may be great guys, but they haven't been great roster additions from a business sense.

Speed
02-01-2010, 12:39 PM
AT this point, why have a fire sale and give up sweetner, just ride out the contracts as expiring for the exact reasons Seth states about getting rid of Jackson in a negative equity way. If it was me, I'd just continue sucking and let it play out until you either get a good deal or they expire. I say this often, but the legacy of that time in Pacer history, needs expunged once and for all. No more putting off paying the mortgage by directing payments to the future. This is over in a year and half, regardless, let's not give up anything valuable like a young players at this point nor get pennies on the dollar via a fire sale.

Hold the course, keep asking for fair or better equity in return, if not, then wait it out, you've waited this long.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2010, 12:58 PM
Speed, I'm not really for it myself. I'm just saying that I can see that as the stark reality they are facing.

I mean I'd ride it out with deals if moving them cost me the young core, but I'd also have already dumped JOB and talked to Thibadeau. I also would still be using Ford a little bit every night.

No more putting off paying the mortgage by directing payments to the future.
Absolutely

LoneGranger33
02-01-2010, 03:05 PM
Oh the burning! This isn't a fever!

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound...

IndyPacer
02-01-2010, 04:44 PM
What about that makes him untouchable? To me, it makes you less willing to trade him, but not completely against the idea.

I don't think AJ Price is untouchable at all, but it's generally a pretty bad idea to trade away a rooking PG who is demonstrating the potential to be a very solid player at the least. I don't think it's wise to dump a young player who is just starting to shine. I don't think you are going to get much value for him right now. But if you keep him, he might provide great value to this team. If he doesn't pan out, it's not like he has a giant contract right now.

avoidingtheclowns
02-01-2010, 08:09 PM
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound...

Um... would you like to try that a little simpler maybe?