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View Full Version : Odd thoughts while trying to figure out who is the M.V.P.



Peck
01-30-2010, 03:54 AM
Ok I figured I would just crunch the Lakers game and the Cavs. game into one post because the results were pretty much the same for both.

We had our butts handed to us; there is no other way to put it, by both teams.

But guess what, it's not really a big crime or sin these are the two best teams in the league and there is a really good chance that they will be facing each other in the finals.

So no shame in losing. Yes, I'm aware that is loser talk.

Koby LeBron LeBron Koby, it doesn't matter both are light years ahead of anything we as a franchise have ever had.

I think that is really the only thing that I came away depressed with this week about these games. Not the fact that we lost and lost handily, I expected that.

But the fact that the likelihood of the Pacers ever being in the elite level of teams like these two anytime soon in my life is not real good.

I mean even if the 3 year plan works to perfection the fact is we are not going to be able to bring in a player like either of these two.

So the only way to do this will be like we did back in the 90's, which is fine but believe me it is slow and doesn't always work out the way you want.

Why both of these players are so grand? Because both of them made a concerted effort to not score against us. They worked on every aspect of their game but scored just enough so that you would know that if they wanted to they could score whatever they wanted and there was nothing you were going to do about it.

So who is the M.V.P.? Honest to God that is hard to say. I guess if Arenas put a gun to my head I would probably have to go with LeBron right now from what we saw this week because he does not have the talent around him that Koby does. I fully expect the Lakers to repeat unless there is some major collapse or injury.

I just know in both cases that when the crowd was chanting "MVP, MVP" the universal translator in Jim's head was making him hear "shoot more three's, shoot more three's". Ok, sorry I couldn't resist at least one barb thrown his way.

What is also somewhat sad is that for this season anyway Danny proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did not belong in any conversation that spoke of elite players.

Last season I honestly thought he was not at the elite level by any sense but he was in that next rung down. Enough to be an irritant to Koby and he was a pain in the @ss to King James.

Not this time.

I would venture to say that James probably forgot Danny was even playing after awhile.

Injury, fatigue, loss of mobility, etc. I have no idea but all season long there has been something not right.

But not to be outdone by the current M.V.P. players Shaq decided to raise up from the dead and provide the youngsters in the crowd just a small glimpse of what we used to have to contend with.

I've been luck in my life to have seen many great players. Ewing, Robinson, Drexler, hell I even saw Dr.J and Kareem before they retired.

Jordan of course was always a pain in the @ss but for whatever reason he just never destroyed us like he did other teams. It could be that he had to spend a lot of energy chasing Reggie around or something. Don't get me wrong he generally had his way with us but often times we gave as good as we got.

However the only player that I have ever seen that I felt totally helpless against and felt like there was just nothing that we could do anything about was Shaq. This is a guy who tossed our players about like he was the real king kong.

However he has no lift left in him anymore but man is the guy crafty and sly. That is why I think it is great that Roy got to play against him. Sure Roy got destroyed, but if he picked up some of Shaqs tricks tonight then in the long run we will be better for it.

Roy once again was getting some love from the other teams coach in today’s star, I'm not going to post or link it here but Brown thinks Roy will be a great player.

BTW, Andrew Bynum is also a good young big man. Every time I read where the era of the big man is over and that there are no real centers left I just keep reminding myself that the teams that are lined up to win a title this year all have a traditional center and 4 of the 5 have either elite or used to be elite big men.

However once Shaq leaves the game there is literally no one else that is his size, nor has there ever been really.

So I'm kind of pondering who is going to be THE elite center of the future. Dwight Howard right now has the distinction of being that player; however I'm not 100% that he has enough of an offensive game to where he can dominate long term.

It really would have been nice to have Odom not get injured so that we could see what he could have done but I'm afraid that may be a career that will never be fully realized due to bad knees.

I don't think Roy will ever be in the talk of truly elite centers but I wonder if maybe he couldn't get to where he is in the next level down. I mean offensively he has the tools, but his inability to jump may always hold him down.

But no hate from me for Roy, I'm still pleased as punch considering he came in at the 17th pick in the draft.

Ok, let's move on to our team. Yea..... Not really.

Look I'm going to give our guys, including O'Brien a big break this week. We didn't compete all that well but let's be honest here we really shouldn't be expected to.

I guess I would like to welcome Brandon Rush to the 09-10 season. Thank you for checking in with us at the halfway point, I hope your first half of the season vacation was fun and relaxing.

This guy makes me want to jump off of a roof. As I've said I think more than anything else the complete and total collapse of his game in the first half of the season messed up the plans of the front office more than anything. This guy was supposed to be Danny's running mate and instead he decided to be Brandon Van Winkle on everybody.

Now that the season is really all over but the shouting he decides to come alive. I guess better late than never, but damn man couldn't you have done this about two months ago?

Speaking of a lost season.

Well I think I'm pretty much going to call Hansbrough's first season pretty much a wash out. When he played he showed some promise and I liked his style but with the indefinite label and Stacy Paetz saying that he still felt the same after shoot around that he has felt I think it's safe to say that the all-star break will probably come and go before we see him again and by then he will have the month of March to play some ball.

We, as a franchise, are cursed.

Speaking of injuries, did Dwight Howard cause Foster to rupture the discs in his back or something? I mean he has only been gone for over a month.

Anyway moving on

A.J. Price continues to develop and I have a feeling that by the time we come back from the break and we are all but officially eliminated from the playoff race I think you will see him get the starting call for a few games.

Barring something wonderful happening in the draft I believe that A.J. is your point guard next year, which I am fine with btw. I want to see him work on his defense and his dribbling but overall you can't ask more from a second round pick.

Boy I sure hope Mike Dunleavy did not come back to early. I am really afraid that his conditioning is not great and that he will either injure something else because he is compensating or he will aggravate the surgical site itself.

I think it is fair to say that right now Mike is just not playing well but I think it is also fair to say that the lack of conditioning and probably soreness have more to do with that than anything.

We did have a Josh McRoberts sighting vs. the Cavs.

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To me the way he was used and the min. he played were perfect. I think to many people get hung up with the fact that some people want Josh to get some time and therefore they assume we all want him to start and play big min.

I think most of us know that Josh is going to be a bench role player, but I think that there is a place for that role every night for a few min. a game in particular when you are short forwards to begin with.

He didn't do anything grand, he didn't do anything bad. He did however contribute some fouls (which btw are not always a bad thing) and some size in the paint. Of course their size dwarfed any of our size.

I think our entire year can pretty much be summed up as follows.

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See, I went an entire post and I didn't even discuss Murphy once. I think I deserve a cookie for that.:cool:

Bball
01-30-2010, 05:15 AM
:cookie:

Will Galen
01-30-2010, 07:33 AM
See, I went an entire post and I didn't even discuss Murphy once. I think I deserve a cookie for that.:cool:

:cookie::cookie:

Spirit
01-30-2010, 07:50 AM
I guess if Arenas put a gun to my head

:laugh:

Back on topic, I can't really tell either because I haven't followed the NBA enough this season besides the Pacers to have an idea.

Doug
01-30-2010, 08:20 AM
AJ, Brandon, Danny, Hans, Hibbert

I like those players. I like that line-up. I would pay money to see it. That's our future.

Sadly, it's also a .500 lineup.

Putnam
01-30-2010, 08:25 AM
AJ, Brandon, Danny, Hans, Hibbert

I like those players. I like that line-up. I would pay money to see it. That's our future.

Sadly, it's also a .500 lineup.


.500? :drool:

D-BONE
01-30-2010, 08:28 AM
.500? :drool:

Maybe more like .300?

Ballerzfan
01-30-2010, 09:40 AM
Good read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Peck

xtacy
01-30-2010, 11:10 AM
AJ, Brandon, Danny, Hans, Hibbert

I like those players. I like that line-up. I would pay money to see it. That's our future.

Sadly, it's also a .500 lineup.

this lineup will never be a .500 one. sad but true. if we can't bring in a real superstar(danny isn't one,again sad but true) or two very good players next year we are doomed.

KnicksRGarbage
01-30-2010, 11:25 AM
I think it's a tad premature to say danny will never be an all star again. yeah, hes had some shatty games this year. last night was dreadful. but to say the guy will never be an all star again is a little harsh. he is coming back from his injury as well. plus look at the :censored: he has to deal with too. i just think as a fan of the pacers and of granger, it's way too harsh to say he'll never be back to that level again and write him off in a sense after some terrible games in this abysmal season.

PacerDude
01-30-2010, 11:47 AM
I think it's a tad premature to say danny will never be an all star again. Agreed, but these 5-23 nights don't do anything to endear people to think he's goint to lead this franchise anywhere anytime soon. As has been said all over this forum, I don't know if it's an injury, coaching, teammates, his new contract or whatever, but this season he has simply been an average ballplayer. Well, no. A 40% shooter really isn't average. Average is perhaps a little too much of a compliment for him. Add in that he's not bringing anything on the defensive end and showing zero leadership skills, and maybe that big contract wasn't the right thing to do.

This season reminds me of the days of the curtain at MSA. A sellout when another player comes to town. That's a bad sign for the franchise.

KnicksRGarbage
01-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Oh I completely agree. I'm a fan of Granger, even though I've, unfortunately, been worried a lot of times he shoots a 3. You know something's going on now when we all feel more comfortable when we see Brandon going up for 3 compared to Danny.. btw really quick major props to Brandon on his game recently. Apparently I should have given him more playing time on NBA 2K10 much sooner :rolleyes: .... anyhow I do feel somewhat uncomfortable that Danny hasn't shown much passion this season. Roy and Inferno have been fired up countless times this year. I just don't see a lot of those "leadership" actions, if you will, coming from Danny. It seems as if JOB or some other unknown entity has ripped out his heart this year. idk.. but it sure is unsettling.

I read something in another thread wondering if our crappy play could be intentional to spite JOB. I hope this is the case with some of our guys. Because I really don't think we are this damn terrible.

gummy
01-30-2010, 03:36 PM
I guess I would like to welcome Brandon Rush to the 09-10 season. Thank you for checking in with us at the halfway point, I hope your first half of the season vacation was fun and relaxing.

This guy makes me want to jump off of a roof. As I've said I think more than anything else the complete and total collapse of his game in the first half of the season messed up the plans of the front office more than anything. This guy was supposed to be Danny's running mate and instead he decided to be Brandon Van Winkle on everybody.

Now that the season is really all over but the shouting he decides to come alive. I guess better late than never, but damn man couldn't you have done this about two months ago?


This section shows zero appreciation for good azz defense. Do you think it is a walk in the park to be a good to excellent level defender? Is there a relaxing way to be successful at chasing Ray Allen around screens or playing better defense on LeBron than anyone else on your team?

:notamused:

Not to mention an appreciation for offensive skills other than shooting. I mean, I get that his early season offensive production was frustrating (I suspect lots of you were expecting too much based on a late season spurt, but that's another story), but several people have elaborated on the specific positive qualities Brandon has been bringing to the table this season, in many different threads. Have you ever read one of Seth's many posts about Brandon? :hmm:

You imply that the front office pinned all their hopes for a turnaround on a second year player who was not a top 10 pick and was not a consistent offensive performer last year. Sorry, if that's the case I gotta say that I'm a lot more upset about poor planning on the part of the front office than I am about the inconsistent shooting performance of a second year player in an, um, interesting offensive system that does not suit his skills.

Peck, you are definitely one of the posters I enjoy reading most over the past 5 years here. That said, the fact that some otherwise quite knowledgeable posters seem to completely undervalue defense and the non-scoring components of offense (spacing, post entry passes, shot selection, etc.)...well, it makes me want to jump off a roof, especially when I've seen some of those same posters appreciate those qualities in other players over the years. So when you find a suitable roof, please do let me know! :buddies:

BRushWithDeath
01-30-2010, 03:40 PM
Trying to figure out the MVP: It's LeBron. And it isn't close. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they still win 45-50 games. Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't win 20.

Sookie
01-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Trying to figure out the MVP: It's LeBron. And it isn't close. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they still win 45-50 games. Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't win 20.

Kobe had a poor January, and that's why Lebron is leading the MVP.

But so long as Lebron continues to try to out do Kobe, in terms of "best in the world, all around" it's Kobe > Lebron. Because if Lebron's got to "out do" Kobe, then clearly, Lebron thinks Kobe is better.

Or maybe it's just because Lebron annoyed me last night. :P

quinnthology
01-30-2010, 04:12 PM
You guys do know it's not just between them, right?

Doug
01-30-2010, 04:26 PM
.500? :drool:Healthy, playing together, another year of experience, and well-coached. Yes, .500. Maybe even slightly better.

It's easy to be pessimistic the way the season is going, but don't give up on what we have started to assemble yet.

We are not 'one player away', but this isn't completely hopeless, either.

BRushWithDeath
01-30-2010, 04:31 PM
You guys do know it's not just between them, right?

Yes it is. Don't kid yourself.

quinnthology
01-30-2010, 09:12 PM
Dirk, Melo, Roy and CP if New Orleans finishes with the 7th seed or better are all MVP candidates.

Edit: Wade also if we're talking teams that would be in the lottery without a player (like CP and Bron)

BRushWithDeath
01-31-2010, 11:12 AM
Dirk, Melo, Roy and CP if New Orleans finishes with the 7th seed or better are all MVP candidates.

Edit: Wade also if we're talking teams that would be in the lottery without a player (like CP and Bron)

All great players. Not MVP candidates. Not at all.