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ksuttonjr76
01-29-2010, 12:00 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100129


Indiana Pacers
The Pacers thought that if everyone stayed healthy this season, they might have a shot at the playoffs. But the team has been a disappointment. While injuries have played a major part in their struggles, there are other problems. T.J. Ford has been awful, second-year guard Brandon Rush has struggled, and Mike Dunleavy has been slow to return to form.

With so many teams interested in both Murphy and big man Jeff Foster, it looks as though the Pacers are primed to make a move that could set them back in the short term and help in the long term.

The question is, what do Pacers execs Larry Bird and David Morway want in return? If they want cap space, there are plenty of willing suitors. If they want more -- and that would be understandable given their dearth of talent -- it may be harder to find the perfect combination.

Whatever they choose, the Pacers' best play appears to be forgetting about this season and looking to the future, even if it means more losses now. The draft might be their quickest route to getting an elite talent, such as John Wall or another high lottery pick, to play alongside Danny Granger.

They must be looking at a different team, because I've been pretty pleased with Brandon Rush's production for the past two months. Dunleavy is actually doing better than what I expected of him.

HC
01-29-2010, 12:10 PM
Rush did really struggle to start the season. His recent improvements probably haven't been significant enough to attract much attention from the national media. That is probably where this is coming from.

vnzla81
01-29-2010, 12:18 PM
I hope they make a trade even for cap space, I don't think that deal with cleveland is going down because Hickson is been playing out of his mind lately.

Speed
01-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I hope they make a trade even for cap space, I don't think that deal with cleveland is going down because Hickson is been playing out of his mind lately.

Yep, and Lebron has taken him under his wing like a little brother. Shaq has too. I do not see them moving Hickson now, at all.

tadscout
01-29-2010, 12:34 PM
I hope they make a trade even for cap space, I don't think that deal with cleveland is going down because Hickson is been playing out of his mind lately.

It doesn't mean that Murph to CLE is dead... just that a pick (hopefully 2011 1st (has a chance to be better if Lebron bolts...)) would replace Hickson...

BRushWithDeath
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Dunleavy is actually doing better than what I expected of him.

Dunleavy has been the worst player on the team. By a pretty good margin.

Reeder
01-29-2010, 12:56 PM
"Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 http://www.pacersdigest.com/images/buttons/PDbuttons//viewpost.gif (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?p=952463#post952463)
Dunleavy is actually doing better than what I expected of him."



Dunleavy has been the worst player on the team. By a pretty good margin.


These two opinions are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2010, 01:07 PM
It doesn't mean that Murph to CLE is dead... just that a pick (hopefully 2011 1st (has a chance to be better if Lebron bolts...)) would replace Hickson...
Where do I sign to get a Troy for Z+2010 first.

The 2010 will be low enough that it seems reasonable to expect them to deal it, and while the draft isn't endless I think the pool of PF talent will likely drop someone pretty good into the end of the first (Booker perhaps).

I don't dislike Hickson, but I'm not that concerned with getting him. I like the financial space far more. Saves the team a ton of money AND clears out one of the teams "issues".



Yeah, Dun has not been that good. Some of his mistakes don't even look like fatigue or injury, they look like lack of interest. I mean some of the pass choices that are clearly headed to the other team or extremely weak, or both. It doesn't seem like a description of him, but if I didn't know better I'd call his game half-a***d this season.

If he's hurting that bad or that drastically fatigued then maybe he should shut it down for a month. The team isn't headed anywhere anyway so why not take a break to get things on track.

Anthem
01-29-2010, 01:21 PM
Where do I sign to get a Troy for Z+2010 first.
I was gonna say Z/Powe/1st. But yeah, we're in the same neighborhood.

I kinda think we'd already have seen a deal if Tyler's ear was working right or Jeff's back was ok.

Shade
01-29-2010, 01:32 PM
If we can move Murphy, Foster, and Ford for cap space and draft picks, that's good enough for me.

Anthem
01-29-2010, 01:36 PM
I'm still kinda boggled by the love Foster's getting. Is a team really going to trade for him without seeing him on the court?

Dr. Awesome
01-29-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm still kinda boggled by the love Foster's getting. Is a team really going to trade for him without seeing him on the court?

Foster getting hurt was probably the best thing for his value. I believe if he was playing, every team would notice how many steps back hes taken and how he isn't a great defender anymore and back off trade talks.

cdash
01-29-2010, 02:10 PM
Yep, and Lebron has taken him under his wing like a little brother. Shaq has too. I do not see them moving Hickson now, at all.

If the right deal comes along, they will absolutely move him. If you haven't noticed, LeBron gets along with all of his teammates. Guys just love playing with him. LeBron is smart enough to realize the big picture here, and I doubt he sees Hickson as someone integral to winning a title.

90'sNBARocked
01-29-2010, 02:29 PM
If the right deal comes along, they will absolutely move him. If you haven't noticed, LeBron gets along with all of his teammates. Guys just love playing with him. LeBron is smart enough to realize the big picture here, and I doubt he sees Hickson as someone integral to winning a title.

Not an interical part by any means

Only thing is Hickson has become LeBrons "boy"

not saying the wouldnt but they dont want to upset the "King" :eek:

d_c
01-29-2010, 02:29 PM
LeBron is smart enough to realize the big picture here, and I doubt he sees Hickson as someone integral to winning a title.

Murphy has hardly been integral to anyone making the playoffs.

Trophy
01-29-2010, 02:30 PM
I don't see us doing anything. It's probably gonna be like last season, we and the rest of the league hardly do a thing.

Shade
01-29-2010, 02:32 PM
I'm still kinda boggled by the love Foster's getting. Is a team really going to trade for him without seeing him on the court?

I think they're betting that he'll be good to go in time for the playoffs, which is when he'll be needed.

Speed
01-29-2010, 02:33 PM
If the right deal comes along, they will absolutely move him. If you haven't noticed, LeBron gets along with all of his teammates. Guys just love playing with him. LeBron is smart enough to realize the big picture here, and I doubt he sees Hickson as someone integral to winning a title.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/267275/

NBA: No stopping Cavs, Hickson’s 23 leads Cleveland to easy win over Wolves

CLEVELAND – LeBron James’ only moves in the fourth quarter were in a playful dance-off with one of the arena’s ushers.
By: Associated Press, INFORUM


CLEVELAND – LeBron James’ only moves in the fourth quarter were in a playful dance-off with one of the arena’s ushers.

After a string of nail-biters, the Cleveland Cavaliers finally enjoyed a blowout.

J.J. Hickson scored a career-high 23, James added 11 assists before resting the last 12 minutes and the Cavs finally won comfortably following two weeks of tense-and-tight games, beating the Minnesota Timberwolves 109-95 on Wednesday night for their sixth straight victory.

It was a welcome change for the Cavaliers, whose previous seven games were decided by a combined 21 points. Cleveland was coming off back-to-back one-point wins over Oklahoma City and Miami.

“We’re OK with having ones where the big guys don’t have to play as much,” James said. “We’re OK finishing games off with heart pounders for the coaching staff and fans. “

Emerging as an interior option for Cleveland, Hickson was active near the basket and went 8 of 10 from the field and made all 7 free throws in 25 minutes. Leading by 19 points after three, Cavs coach Mike Brown had the luxury of sitting James, Hickson and Shaquille O’Neal for the fourth.

The Cavaliers were again without injured point guards Mo Williams and Delonte West, but it hardly mattered against the Timberwolves, who dropped to 3-21 outside Minnesota.

James added 12 points and six rebounds in 31 minutes. Corey Brewer scored 22 and Kevin Love 20 for the Timberwolves, who lacked the firepower to trade baskets with the NBA’s best team.

“They’re one of the best teams we’ve played,” Brewer said. “They’ve got LeBron. They’ve got Shaq. They’ve got a lot of really good players.”

Hickson is developing into another. Most of his points came on dunks or layups as James found him slashing to the basket. With Hickson part of their offensive package, the Cavs can go down low to O’Neal, Anderson Varejao or Zydrunas Ilgauskas and take pressure off James.

James has developed a nice chemistry with Hickson, a second-year forward who entered the draft early from North Carolina State. Along with feeding his teammate passes, James said he dishes out advice to Hickson.

“One thing I try to do is just stay in his ear, positively,” James said. “I’m going to continue to let him know how easy it can be for him if he just does what I tell him to do.”

James’ comment was met with laughter. He wasn’t kidding.

“Seriously, man,” James said. “It sounds kind of weird, but I see a lot of openings for him on the court that he doesn’t see. He doesn’t have a lot of experience and I just try to stay in his ear.”

The Cavaliers came out disinterested, a common theme for them when playing a lesser team, and found themselves in a four-point hole after a thunderous dunk by Wolves center Ryan Hollins.

James finished the first quarter in a huff. Angered by a non-call on a drive, James was slapped with a technical by referee Derrick Stafford, prompting Cavs coach Mike Brown to pull his superstar to calm him down. James kicked his chair before taking a seat on the bench.
By the time he checked back in, James was in a playful mood. He pulled off his sweat pants and threw them in the face Williams, who was seated at the scorer’s table and being interviewed on the TV broadcast.

The Cavs showed more collective fire in the second quarter, outscoring the Timberwolves 33-22 to open a 60-48 halftime lead.

NOTES: North Carolina coach Roy Williams had a courtside seat to watch some of his former Tar Heels – Cleveland’s Jawad Williams and Danny Green and Minnesota’s Wayne Ellington. Green and Ellington played on last year’s NCAA championship team. ... Mo Williams will not be surprised if the Cavs, despite having the league’s best record, don’t place anyone else on the Eastern Conference All-Star team when the reserves are named today. “Let’s just say I’ve been there before,” said Williams, who was named an alternate last season but only after several injuries sidelined other stars.

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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2010012705&prov=ap

Hickson’s 23 leads Cavs to easy win over T-Wolves

By TOM WITHERS, AP Sports Writer Jan 27, 10:54 pm EST

O’Neal, too, sees big potential in the 21-year-old Hickson.

“I told J.J. when I first got here, ‘J.J., you could be Cedric Ceballos’,” O’Neal said. “Of course, he doesn’t know who that was. I played with Cedric Ceballos, who never got any plays called for him, but he averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds. I think J.J. can do the same thing.”

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Ya I don't think he's untouchable, but I think he's showing promise and Lebron likes him.

ksuttonjr76
01-29-2010, 02:38 PM
Dunleavy has been the worst player on the team. By a pretty good margin.

I meant that I was wasn't expecting anything of production from him this year. In January, he's averaging 12.1 PPG, 5.2 RPG, and 1.4 APG while shooting 42.0% from the field and 35.0% from 3PT land. He's ahead of schedule in my book. Whether or not he's the worst player on the team is a different debate. Personally, S. Jones gets my vote.

Trophy
01-29-2010, 02:40 PM
This has been my thought on the Cavs the whole time they've been rumored to get a tall shooter.

Why do they even want to go out and get someone else? With Hickson's recent play, why would they want to decrease his time. He appears to be a PF for a while with that team if he continues his play.

That team already has enough shooters to get them a championship. Who cares about getting another one who is a few inches taller. They already have a tall shooter and that is Jawad Williams who hardly gets mentioned anywhere. I saw him a few times this season and all he does is shoot 3's. I would think they would want someone like that to blend in with the key guys they already have.

CableKC
01-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I don't see us doing anything. It's probably gonna be like last season, we and the rest of the league hardly do a thing.
I suspect that the Big Name trades that have been going around ( like Amare or Bosh ) won't happen in 2 weeks but in 5 or 6 months during the offseason. Since Teams that currently have the Big FA on their roster can offer more $$$ ( cuz they can offer 1 more year then other teams ), there is incentive for the Player and Team to get a deal done that would help out both parties. That's why I see Teams like Toronto or Phoenix waiting to see if they can get something decent done before this year's trade deadline...then wait it out til the Offseason to see if they can get a S&T.

CableKC
01-29-2010, 03:07 PM
Ya I don't think he's untouchable, but I think he's showing promise and Lebron likes him.
That's why the Cavs are balking at any attempt to include Hickson in any deal.

I'm guessing that for Murphy and Jamison, the Cavs have been asked and are offering these trade options:

Option 1 : Z + Hickson + 1st round Pick + $$$ ( Wizards and Pacers probably asking for this )
Option 2 : Z +Hickson ( or 1st round Pick ) + $$$
Option 3: Z + $$$ ( Cavs probably countering with this )

I'd really hope for Option 1.....I would be more then okay with Option 2....but ( in all honesty...only cuz I think that we would benefit through "addition by subtraction" ).....I'd settle for Option 3 since it would take away JO'Bs security blanket.

However, something to consider.....maybe one of the reasons why Bird is asking for more now is because of the uncertainty surrounding the return of Hansbrough and Foster....both Players that JO'B would likely rely upon to fill Murphy's place if he is moved. If the PF/C rotation is a concern and if Leon Powe is somewhat healthy and there is a clearer picture of when he will return ( as in sooner then Hansbrough or Foster )...then I'd be okay with Z+Powe+$$$ for Murphy+Diener. This ( certainly ) is more of a palatable trade offer then the one that the Wizards are likely looking for.

IUfan4life
01-29-2010, 03:42 PM
andre iguodola on the trade block, not that i think we can get him, but it would be nice if we could

Unclebuck
01-29-2010, 03:49 PM
If we can move Murphy, Foster, and Ford for cap space and draft picks, that's good enough for me.

I don't see how that could possibly happen. Those three players next season make a combined $27M

Hicks
01-29-2010, 04:08 PM
Murphy has hardly been integral to anyone making the playoffs.

He has never been the 4th/5th/6th/7th best player on his team before, either.

d_c
01-29-2010, 04:16 PM
He has never been the 4th/5th/6th/7th best player on his team before, either.

No he hasn't. But as a 3rd best player, you really don't notice his impact when he's in the lineup vs. when he's out of the lineup. I don't see where you're going to notice his impact anymore in a smaller role.

I think he's a guy who, on a good team, can add some depth and give them a different look for short periods of time. But he's not the "missing piece" of the puzzle that pushes someone over a hump. Not by any stretch.

Hicks
01-29-2010, 04:34 PM
No he hasn't. But as a 3rd best player, you really don't notice his impact when he's in the lineup vs. when he's out of the lineup. I don't see where you're going to notice his impact anymore in a smaller role.

I think he's a guy who, on a good team, can add some depth and give them a different look for short periods of time. But he's not the "missing piece" of the puzzle that pushes someone over a hump. Not by any stretch.

Defenses don't treat you the same when you're the 3rd best as they do when you're 5th best or lower. I could see Murphy looking a lot better when he's surrounded by better players. Murphy was never supposed to be a focal point guy, he has always been a role player.

Normally I wouldn't view Murphy as a "missing piece", and I'm by no means convinced he would be for CLE, but a team that good, if anyone can give them something they don't already have, that might be all it takes to be "the difference". Even if it's minor.

d_c
01-29-2010, 05:02 PM
Defenses don't treat you the same when you're the 3rd best as they do when you're 5th best or lower

Defense treat Troy like a 5th option right now. If he happens to be hitting his shots, they start guarding him more closely in the 2nd half.

Hicks
01-29-2010, 05:20 PM
Defense treat Troy like a 5th option right now. If he happens to be hitting his shots, they start guarding him more closely in the 2nd half.

And it's harder to do that when other guys on floor are people like Shaq, LeBron, Williams, or Ilgauskas.

Furthemore, with Troy's game of basically "he's hitting his shots or he's not", that's a luxury item. If he's hot for the Pacers, they might have a chance at winning. If he's hot for the Cavs, it could be the difference between a close game and a blow out.

Anthem
01-29-2010, 05:51 PM
That's why the Cavs are balking at any attempt to include Hickson in any deal.
Forget include Hickson... that was never in the cards. I'm just hoping we make the move before the Cavs decide they don't want Murphy interfering with Hickson's growth.

1984
01-29-2010, 05:53 PM
That is a very nice article. Thanks for posting it.

Obviously, there is the continued rumor that the Pacers want more for Murph than many teams are willing to part with. However, if we are committing to Jim O'Brien as our coach of the future (the one year extension) than we need to dump Murph regardless of return because he clearly does not fit our needs ("BECAUSE," you would have to assume your are better of "without" rather than "with").

speakout4
01-29-2010, 09:47 PM
Defenses don't treat you the same when you're the 3rd best as they do when you're 5th best or lower. I could see Murphy looking a lot better when he's surrounded by better players. Murphy was never supposed to be a focal point guy, he has always been a role player.

Normally I wouldn't view Murphy as a "missing piece", and I'm by no means convinced he w bould be for CLE, but a team that good, if anyone can give them something they don't already have, that might be all it takes to be "the difference". Even if it's minor.
Murphy makes sense for CLE because both Z and Shaq are not guys who can play big minutes any longer or have the stamina to give consistent performances deep into the playoffs. Both big men may even be gone next season. That leaves Hickson and Valejo who are not as reliable offensively as Murphy. If they find Murphy is a mistake it lasts only through next season.

Smoothdave1
01-29-2010, 09:58 PM
ESPN had a comment from an NBA Scout on what Cleveland should do: http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100129-30/checking-nba-scouts


Western Conference scout on whether the Cleveland Cavaliers would be better off acquiring Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy

"Jamison can help them more short-term, but I like Murphy's contract better.

"Jamison is better around the basket. He can shoot 3s like Murphy can. But the last year of Jamison's deal -- $15 million when he'll be 35 -- would scare me. So I'd go with Murphy.

"He doesn't play defense like the Cavs [expect], but he only has one season left after this one [at nearly $12 million]. If I'm the Cavs and I end up losing LeBron, I'm not going to want Jamison on my books in that last year at $15 million."

ksuttonjr76
01-29-2010, 10:46 PM
ESPN had a comment from an NBA Scout on what Cleveland should do: http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100129-30/checking-nba-scouts


Western Conference scout on whether the Cleveland Cavaliers would be better off acquiring Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy

"Jamison can help them more short-term, but I like Murphy's contract better.

"Jamison is better around the basket. He can shoot 3s like Murphy can. But the last year of Jamison's deal -- $15 million when he'll be 35 -- would scare me. So I'd go with Murphy.

"He doesn't play defense like the Cavs [expect], but he only has one season left after this one [at nearly $12 million]. If I'm the Cavs and I end up losing LeBron, I'm not going to want Jamison on my books in that last year at $15 million."

There's still hope.

jeffg-body
01-30-2010, 01:55 AM
Even though Hickson is playing well, I am still hoping that Murph for Z happens and I really like the idea of the 2011 1st rounder added as someone else said. Now if we could do a similar with someone for Foster and get a second 1st rounder for the 2010 draft we could set ourself for an influx of young talent quicker than expected. I think if we did get loaded with young talent more free agants may consider Indy as a place worth coming in and playing here.

Hicks
01-30-2010, 10:13 AM
God, if we could have a total of 3 first rounders, that could be big, I think.

Ours (somewhere from 6-12 most likely), then a couple either mid or low ones could really help our spirits right about now.

eldubious
01-30-2010, 02:11 PM
On a minor note, I think the Pacers should be looking at Oklahoma City for a deal, Maynor and Collison for Foster or Ford would work out well. The Thunder could be looking for veterans as they play for the playoffs. Another move is Ford to the Magic for a bunch of expirings, I believe the Magic desperately need a PG and Ford is the best one available.