PDA

View Full Version : If J'OB were to get fired this season, who would you want to replace him?



Shade
01-28-2010, 08:58 PM
Yeah, I know this is a pipe dream at this point, but let's assume TPTB wake up at some point this season and finally realize that the J'OB regime just isn't getting the job done, say around the All-Star break...?

Who would you want the Pacers to hire to replace him? Promote/bring in a stop-gap for the remainder of the season, or hire someone now to a 3-year deal or so...?

Suaveness
01-28-2010, 09:01 PM
I'll take anyone at this point...

Naptown_Seth
01-28-2010, 09:05 PM
I'd have to think about it, but I'd defintely keep a couple of those top flight assistants in mind (like Thebideau from Boston).

I'd be a little interested in Avery Johnson, maybe Byron Scott though I've heard some rumors about his coaching ability that weren't so favorable.

Sookie
01-28-2010, 09:12 PM
Bill Laimbeer (don't vomit guys)
He's proven he's an excellent coach, if players will listen to him..which a bunch of young guys who completed years in college would.

He's also great for post players..wouldn't it be nice for Roy, Tyler, McBob and Solo to learn from him..and you know damn well Bill wouldn't be playing a soft post like Murphy 30+ minutes a game.

He'd take the job, because he'd take any NBA job at this point. And if the team listens to him, he's a possible long term solution..because he IS a good coach.

1984
01-28-2010, 09:21 PM
After watching the L.A. game, I would take anyone. O'Brien's game plan was so bad, that I began to miss...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:xiA5xE6F-SpJSM:http://asapblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/25/rick.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://asapblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/25/rick.jpg&imgrefurl=http://joeyashcraftsblog.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html&usg=__OD1z4cd4zqApz0NMS3DCFSlaBxc=&h=921&w=800&sz=347&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=xiA5xE6F-SpJSM:&tbnh=147&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drick%2Bcarlisle%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom .microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7DKUS%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1)

Rick Carlisle. If you could see the future, would you have chosen to keep Rick or hire Jim? I'm not advocating that we should hire Rick (in fact he isn't even available); however, this is the perfect instance of, "Be careful what you wish for." Pacer fans wanted Carlisle off of the Fieldhouse bench, and management made a hastey decision. It is clear that Jim O'Brien is not the coach of the future, yet we should not fire JOB until the future candidates of been clearly identified. Otherwise, we will be in this position again 3 years from now.

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2010, 09:28 PM
For an interim coach, I'd like to see someone that is more of a teacher for our post players that are going to be here in the future. I had Kevin McHale in mind for an interim coach because he'd seem like a perfect fit to teach/improve the footwork and other "big man skills" of both Roy and Tyler maybe Solo too. Then when his interim is over, maybe you can consider your next coach to bring him on as an assistant to continue working with our front court guys as the big man coach that we've been missing.

As for the permanent hire.. I wouldn't mind seeing another X & O's guy come in like Lawrence Frank. I'm not too keen on another guy that isn't too hip on X's and O's because of the total lack of game planning that we see now.

Cobalt_Colt
01-28-2010, 09:33 PM
I'd like to see an ex-player get his first coaching job with us, for some reason I would like to have Eric Snow. Don't really know why I guess his commentary has a lot to do with it, seems like he knows what he is talking about and I tend to agree with him a lot.

Pacers24Colts12
01-28-2010, 09:35 PM
I would like to see Bird replace him for the rest of the season...then after Bird sucks, fire Bird all together, new GM...and the new GM hires either Byron Scott, Lawrence Frank or Mark Jackson.

GO!!!!!
01-28-2010, 09:37 PM
MJ





Mark Jackson.....

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2010, 09:44 PM
I'd like to see an ex-player get his first coaching job with us, for some reason I would like to have Eric Snow. Don't really know why I guess his commentary has a lot to do with it, seems like he knows what he is talking about and I tend to agree with him a lot.

Immediately, I recall Paul Silas screaming an interviewer down "Am I speaking Chinese?" In reference to not wanting to talk about Eric Snow.

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:02 PM
I'd like to see an ex-player get his first coaching job with us, for some reason I would like to have Eric Snow. Don't really know why I guess his commentary has a lot to do with it, seems like he knows what he is talking about and I tend to agree with him a lot.

I wouldn't give a guy a job simply because he sounds like he knows what he's talking about on TV.

You'd be taking him over several qualified guys who have spent years paying their dues as an assistant just because he sounds good on TV. I don't think that's really sound strategy.

Same thing with Mark Jackson. Same exact thing. I'd like to see these guys get their feet wet as an assistant first. Even in the D League.

McKeyFan
01-28-2010, 10:11 PM
Eric Snow seems cool.

I saw Brian Shaw on the Laker's bench last night. He could be good.




Hell, I'll take anybody.

Alabama-Redneck
01-28-2010, 10:16 PM
Bugs Bunny--- It's been Looney Tunes for the first half of the season, why change now. :D

:cool:

GO!!!!!
01-28-2010, 10:18 PM
Agreed, the two things I hate when it comes to coaching in all fields and sports

Young upstarts that played well but never coached... I think it's essential to coach a D-League, WNBA team or be an Assistant for atleast 1-2 years just as a warm up..

Recycling of Coaches past there prime.., goddam how many times do we see 60+ year old coaches getting appointed... to different teams, Bernie Bikkerstaff, the Clippers Guy, some of them just bounce from team to team like journey men and it irks me, time for a new kid on the block already...

vnzla81
01-28-2010, 10:20 PM
somebody who does not make the players play small ball and "want to spread the floor"

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:21 PM
Eric Snow seems cool.

I saw Brian Shaw on the Laker's bench last night. He could be good.


Hell, I'll take anybody.

Brian Shaw has a lot of experience as an assistant. Kind of wonder why he hasn't been given a head coaching job.

Sorry, but I just think it's kind of an insult to hire a guy just because he sounds like he knows what he's talking about on TV. Lots of people sound smart on tv. It's an insult to guys who spent years as an assistant coach, worked their way up and gained day to day experience actually running a team.

I remember when the Lions hired Matt Millen to be their GM. They did it because he was well spoken on TV and seemed to know his stuff. In fact the guy had no experience as a scout, coach or anything to do with an NFL front office. Absolutely none. The Lions hired him because of what they saw of him......on TV. He sounded smart and articulate there. Of course it's always easier to analyze someone else's decisions than it is to make your own and be responsible for them.

BlueNGold
01-28-2010, 10:29 PM
I suspect we could do worse by drawing out of a hat, but I doubt it. I think Rick Carlisle could get Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones, Marcus Haislip, Britton Johnson and David Harrison and compete against this group. There is just a vast difference in their coaching abilities and for anyone to argue otherwise.....well, they just want to support JOb.

BTW, I usually don't rip so directly on him....but my patience is wearing thin....and it's getting late. I am so very sick and tired of this style of play and his complete inability to recognize that defense is his best chance at winning games...not launching helter skelter 3's.

HC
01-28-2010, 10:30 PM
Screw it, I'm gonna say Chuck Person.

esabyrn333
01-28-2010, 10:30 PM
Bill Lambier or Mark Jackson

Someone who is tough, defensive minded that likes having a balanced inside out attack and who is not 3pt crazy. I am honestly sick to death of 3 pointers.

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:32 PM
BTW, I usually don't rip so directly on him....but my patience is wearing thin....and it's getting late. I am so very sick and tired of this style of play and his complete inability to recognize that defense is his best chance at winning games...not launching helter skelter 3's.

Defense isn't his best chance of winning games.

Not with this roster.

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-28-2010, 10:33 PM
Didn't O'Brien do TV for a year or two? I wonder if Bird hired him because he sounded smart on TV.

How about Patrick Ewing? I think he'd be great for Roy.

esabyrn333
01-28-2010, 10:34 PM
Didn't O'Brien do TV for a year or two? I wonder if Bird hired him because he sounded smart on TV.

How about Patrick Ewing? I think he'd be great for Roy.

Ewing wouldn't be a bad choice at all and he has be an assistant for a few years

1984
01-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Defense isn't his best chance of winning games.

Not with this roster.

Given a better stategy, this team would be much better defensively. You can't play defense and play O'Brien's offensive scheme.

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:38 PM
Didn't O'Brien do TV for a year or two? I wonder if Bird hired him because he sounded smart on TV.

How about Patrick Ewing? I think he'd be great for Roy.

JOB got hired because he had the best coaching resume of anyone willing to take the job, not because of his job as a TV analyst.

He dragged a team with Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker and a bunch of scrubs to the ECFs.

JOB got 43 wins out of the 76ers in 2004-2005 (the year before he was hired they were a 33 win team). Since then, no 76ers coach has gotten more wins.

HC
01-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Given a better stategy, this team would be much better defensively. You can't play defense and play O'Brien's offensive scheme.

That isn't entirely true. I have seen stretches where this squad has played extended minutes of great help defense. They are capable, but perhaps they are just too tired to maintain it.

Trophy
01-28-2010, 10:40 PM
A good defensive minded head coach would make Troy a more defensive player. Don Nelson and Jim O'Brien were the professional coaches he's had.

If we were to fire JOB during the season maybe Lester Conner or Dan Burke would take over as interim head coach.

If we're searching for a true guy in the offseason, I like Sam Mitchell or Lawrence Frank.

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:44 PM
Given a better stategy, this team would be much better defensively. You can't play defense and play O'Brien's offensive scheme.

JOB had defenses in Philly and Boston that were above average, but that doesn't seem to be a fact anymore that people want to believe.

This team will get better defensively when it gets better defensive players. And when I'm talking about "defensive players", I don't mean scrubs like Soloman Jones who are career 12th men.

Right now, they have the slowest, most unathletic frontcourt in the league. Is there a strategy to make these guys quicker and more athletic?

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:46 PM
A good defensive minded head coach would make Troy a more defensive player. Don Nelson and Jim O'Brien were the professional coaches he's had.

If we were to fire JOB during the season maybe Lester Conner or Dan Burke would take over as interim head coach.

If we're searching for a true guy in the offseason, I like Sam Mitchell or Lawrence Frank.

Rick Carlisle was also a professional coach Murphy had. Are you going to start saying he wasn't a defensive coach?

There isn't a coach on the planet who could make Troy a "defensive player" in any sense.

Trophy
01-28-2010, 10:51 PM
Rick Carlisle was also a professional coach Murphy had. Are you going to start saying he wasn't a defensive coach?

There isn't a coach on the planet who could make Troy a "defensive player" in any sense.

Yeah for a half season he was the head coach when Troy was here.

I disagree. I think if we had someone that can always run defensive plays in practice and draw up defensive plays to follow in games, he would obey it. Nelson and O'Brien are 3 point shooting coaches which is the only thing he had to learn from and he turned out good with that. Not only him, but Mike Dunleavy as well. His defense isn't good.

d_c
01-28-2010, 10:56 PM
Yeah for a half season he was the head coach when Troy was here.

I disagree. I think if we had someone that can always run defensive plays in practice and draw up defensive plays to follow in games, he would obey it. Nelson and O'Brien are 3 point shooting coaches which is the only thing he had to learn from and he turned out good with that. Not only him, but Mike Dunleavy as well. His defense isn't good.


OK, so basically you want every coach in the league to be a miracle worker and make guys who are slow and unathletic into guys who are quick and athletic. You want a coach who can make Troy's short arms into the length of Kevin Garnett's arms.

Was Murphy any good defensively under Rick Carlisle? He looked like the same player under him.

As a Troy Murphy fan, be glad that O'brien emphasizes the 3 point shot because that's the one thing Murphy is good at. He's playing to the guy's strength and not trying to make him into some great defensive player that only exists in your wild fantasies.

Bball
01-28-2010, 10:57 PM
Right now, they have the slowest, most unathletic frontcourt in the league. Is there a strategy to make these guys quicker and more athletic?


No but there are better strategies than asking them to play like they are quick and athletic.

There will be NO defensive improvement until the offense is under control and this spray and pray offense is relegated to the scrap heap of history. None. It is absolutely impossible to defend with any consistency when you're rushing shots and gift wrapping fast breaks for the other team. It's both mentally and physically exhausting.

As for replacements I was going to suggest my dog but she's not a 'people'.... but she'd still do better than O'Brien. But at this point, that isn't too hard.

Just fire O'Brien first thing in the morning and let one of the assistants take over as interim coach. Whichever one disagrees the most about O'Brien's method and agrees to stress defense and fundamentals and absolutely abolish the spray and pray offense.

I really don't care who it is. Let's just have a guest coach each night. Fire O'Brien... Please. He's awful.

I'm sick of O'Brien's horrid coaching. It's a losing proposition and it's now instilling bad habits for some other coach to break. Might as well start now. Might as well start properly evaluating the roster playing something resembling real basketball.

No More Gimmicks.

This should be the new message this season:
Defense... Fundamentals... Fundamentals... Defense... Take care of the freaking ball... Fundamentals... Defense.... Offense...

d_c
01-28-2010, 11:02 PM
No but there are better strategies than asking them to play like they are quick and athletic.

There will be NO defensive improvement until the offense is under control and this spray and pray offense is relegated to the scrap heap of history. None. It is absolutely impossible to defend with any consistency when you're rushing shots and gift wrapping fast breaks for the other team. It's both mentally and physically exhausting.

Playing an "under control" offense would just make this current Pacer team easier for the other team to defend.

Sure, you could do it. It would probably be a lot less infuriating for people to watch, but it'd just be another way to lose because you don't have the personnel to effectively execute it consistently.

Like I've said, JOB probably won't be here when this squad is competitive again. And neither will 75% of the current players.

pwee31
01-28-2010, 11:06 PM
Byron Scott, Lawerence Frank, Sam Mitchell, Terry Porter

If we're looking to give a chance to some wild card candidates an opportunity: Mark Jackson, Tom Thibodeau, Brian Shaw, Mario Elie and Mike Budenholzer

Bball
01-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Playing an "under control" offense would just make this current Pacer team easier for the other team to defend.



Playing an under control offense would at least make the other team have to defend the Pacers rather than just rebound missed shots and take off to the other basket.

And it would mean the Pacers could utilize a set defense rather than doing sprints up and down the floor.



Sure, you could do it. It would probably be a lot less infuriating for people to watch, but it'd just be another way to lose because you don't have the personnel to effectively execute it consistently.

We have a better set of personnel to execute it than what we are doing now.

I absolutely refuse to believe the mess we call basketball gives our team the best chance to win or even be competitive. It gives the OTHER team the best chance for success.



Like I've said, JOB probably won't be here when this squad is competitive again. And neither will 75% of the current players.

No... Jim O'Brien won't be here when this squad is competitive again because there's no way in hell we'll ever be competitive with his horrible, horrible coaching.

Please just fire his azz and let's play some real basketball again.

I feel so strongly about this that I would support a player mutiny.

d_c
01-28-2010, 11:17 PM
Playing an under control offense would at least make the other team have to defend the Pacers rather than just rebound missed shots and take off to the other basket.

And it would mean the Pacers could utilize a set defense rather than doing sprints up and down the floor.



We have a better set of personnel to execute it than what we are doing now.

I absolutely refuse to believe the mess we call basketball gives our team the best chance to win or even be competitive. It gives the OTHER team the best chance for success.



No... Jim O'Brien won't be here when this squad is competitive again because there's no way in hell we'll ever be competitive with his horrible, horrible coaching.

Please just fire his azz and let's play some real basketball again.

I feel so strongly about this that I would support a player mutiny.

Most of the people hating on JOB right now are just arguing about style points. Sure, you'll get a more aesthetic way of losing if you hire a guy with a more conventional strategy. You'll still get losses with this low talent roster.

Placing it all on the coach is just skirting the real issue of the roster, as Bird pretty much said in his SLAM interview: His strategy for the Pacers revolves around 2011 because it gives him the oppurtunity of making major changes to the roster, and he said as much.

I just wouldn't waste too much time talking about a throwaway coach when all you have to go along with him is a throwaway roster.

jeffg-body
01-28-2010, 11:22 PM
I really liked Byron Scott myself and I think he could do well with our organization.

PR07
01-28-2010, 11:26 PM
No brainer. Byronn Scott. Coached many teams to the Finals, his teams are always good defensively, and he's a former Pacer.

Hicks
01-28-2010, 11:30 PM
Lawrence Frank, please.

BlueNGold
01-28-2010, 11:32 PM
Defense isn't his best chance of winning games.

Not with this roster.

I disagree. Granger at the 4 is the best way for this team to win games...and that means better defense. Maybe not against a huge team like the Lakers, but against 75% of the league easy. Going from T-Roy to G-Roy is a major, major improvement defensively because it helps you on both the interior and perimeter. While Troy and Roy are both capable offensive players, their combination on D is pure poison.

Hoop
01-28-2010, 11:32 PM
I'd take Byron Scott. I've always liked Scott since he played here. He really was instrumental in us turning the corner and becoming an elite team, he was almost like a player coach back then.

I'd be OK with Bill Laimbeer even though I hated the dude when he played.

Sam Mitchell or even Lawrence Frank would be acceptable.

I don't like Avery Johnson at all or I don't want Mark Jackson.

d_c
01-28-2010, 11:32 PM
No brainer. Byronn Scott. Coached many teams to the Finals, his teams are always good defensively, and he's a former Pacer.

Byron Scott wouldn't take the Pacers' job. Not right now.

Hoop
01-28-2010, 11:33 PM
Byron Scott wouldn't take the Pacers' job. Not right now.and you know this for a fact how?

Peck
01-28-2010, 11:34 PM
When you kick O'Brien to the curb, and I am now firmly in that camp, you also need to go ahead and kick Conner out as well. Lester has been with Jim for to many years and I think he is indoctrinated into the mindset.

Obviously I would be happy to keep Harter on, however let's be honest here the guy is to old to be any type of head coach (even an interim one).

I guess you could let Burke take over for the year but I have no idea what the guy does or does not know.

My suggestion would be to let Billy Keller finish out the year.

QuickRelease
01-28-2010, 11:42 PM
Most of the people hating on JOB right now are just arguing about style points. Sure, you'll get a more aesthetic way of losing if you hire a guy with a more conventional strategy. You'll still get losses with this low talent roster.

Placing it all on the coach is just skirting the real issue of the roster, as Bird pretty much said in his SLAM interview: His strategy for the Pacers revolves around 2011 because it gives him the oppurtunity of making major changes to the roster, and he said as much.

I just wouldn't waste too much time talking about a throwaway coach when all you have to go along with him is a throwaway roster.

I actually think if we played a more conventional, disciplined style of basketball, we'd be more successful. We have players with high basketball iq's, so I think a more fundamental brand of basketball would give more of a chance to win the fight through technique, rather than hoping for a knockout on haymakers (aka 30 3pointers every night).

QuickRelease
01-28-2010, 11:46 PM
This team needs better discipline, and more patience. Some of the green lights need to be reeled in. Not every open shot is a good one, especially if you can't shoot, which is probably why you're finding yourself open so much.

d_c
01-28-2010, 11:50 PM
and you know this for a fact how?

Coaches who have several years of experience with that type of resume (trips to the Finals, several 50+ win seasons) tend to not want anything to do with a rebuilding team.

Scott is going to look for a ready made roster that gives him the chance to get back to competing like he was when he was with the Nets and Hornets.

Bird already knows he's going totally revamp this roster in a couple years. Scott isn't going to want to be here during a "throwaway season" before that actually occurs.

sportfireman
01-29-2010, 12:17 AM
bring Larry Brown back!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoop
01-29-2010, 12:18 AM
Coaches who has several years of experience with that type of resume (trips to the Finals, several 50+ win seasons) tend to not want anything to do with a rebuilding team.

Scott is going to look for a ready made roster that gives him the chance to get back to competing like he was when he was with the Nets and Hornets.

Bird already knows he's going totally revamp this roster in a couple years. Scott isn't going to want to be here during a "throwaway season" before that actually occurs.And you've talked to Byron and you know this for a fact?

You are wrong about Bird's (and Morway's) plan, this roster will not be revamped in a couple of years, the core group of young players are already here. We'll add a few more young guys, then a few good free agents when we have more cap flexablity. This is not just my speculation this right out of the mouth of Morway and Bird.

With a possible trade getting rid of salary this season, the right draft picks this off season, we could be a playoff team as early as next season. Not a contender by any stretch, but a playoff team on the way up.

I don't really think most people on here think our talent level is as bad as you seem to think it is. I do not believe we are hopeless no matter what coach we have. A different coach could make a huge difference.

Dr. Awesome
01-29-2010, 12:25 AM
I would love either Avery Johnson or Mark Jackson.

d_c
01-29-2010, 12:33 AM
And you've talked to Byron and you know this for a fact?

You are wrong about Bird's (and Morway's) plan, this roster will not be revamped in a couple of years, the core group of young players are already here. We'll add a few more young guys, then a few good free agents when we have more cap flexablity. This is not just my speculation this right out of the mouth of Morway and Bird.

With a possible trade getting rid of salary this season, the right draft picks this off season, we could be a playoff team as early as next season. Not a contender by any stretch, but a playoff team on the way up.

I don't really think most people on here think our talent level is as bad as you seem to think it is. I do not believe we are hopeless no matter what coach we have. A different coach could make a huge difference.

I don't talk to Byron Scott, but I do tend to notice that guys with really nice coaching resumes tend to be a lot pickier about prospective teams to coach than guys who are looking for their first job.

Bird himself emphasized the ability to make roster moves in the summer of 2011. He see that as key and he's right. Right now, too much money is being paid to Tinsley/Murphy/Ford/Foster/Dunleavy for far too little impact. Those guys will either be let go or brought back at a far lesser salary (the former is far more likely).

The keepers are this roster are Granger (all-star) and Hibbert (plays center and isn't a total stiff) and maybe Rush or Hansbrough. That's 4 guys out of 15. The rest of the roster probably is replaceable fodder. (and I wouldn't have a problem with moving Hansbrough or Rush in the right trade because their skills are more easily replaceable).

When the team is competitive again, 75% of this roster will be unrecognizable.

Smoothdave1
01-29-2010, 12:44 AM
I could see the Pacers looking at one of a few guys:

-- Brian Shaw (Little known fact: BShaw almost became our coach the summer we hired JOB). Shaw & Bird are former teamcmates in Boston and he would be fun to watch.

-- Chuck Person -- The Rifleman got kind of a raw deal in Sacramento, but he's the kind of young coach that could bring out the best in our guys

-- Bill Laimbeer -- The guy knows basketball and toughness. Could you imagine if he worked with Tyler, Roy, Josh, etc.? He's an asst. in Minnesota, but I think he would jump at the chance to come to Indy.

-- Mark Jackson -- Reggie might want to come back in some capacity if this were to happen. I think Jackson will get a chance somewhere and could really tutor Price. I would prefer us to hire Jax as an asst. first, but who knows.

-- Lawrence Frank -- The former IU Hoosier manager would surely welcome a trip back to Indiana and seems to be a good x's & o's guy. He's had success in NJ in the past and could come to Indy for relatively cheap, I think.

-- Sam Mitchell -- Outside chance, but I think he'd at least get an interview

-- Johnny Davis -- Former asst. under Carlisle and interviewed a few years ago. May get a chance

-- Scott Skiles -- If he ever leaves the Bucks, I think there would be interest from both parties. He lives in Bloomington in the off-season as his ex-wife and kids are down there and would probably jump at the chance to be closer to home.


Guys who probably won't be our next head coach:

-- Byron Scott -- Scott seems destined for a team with a good core or a larger market. I could see the Clippers hiring Scott if and when they fire Dunleavy.

-- Quinn Buckner -- Former Mavs coach and Pacers broadcaster and head of communications. His previous experience in Dallas turned out, well, not good.

-- Clark Kellogg -- Love when Special K does our away games, but he's got a good gig with CBS and the Pacers and doesn't seem too eager to leave

-- Larry Brown -- Been here, done that

-- Jeff Van Gundy -- I don't know that Indy would be the best fit for him.

-- Reggie Miller -- Reggie seems to enjoy his gig w/ TNT, but I could see him eventually returning to the Pacers in some capacity. Maybe if we hired Jackson, Reggie takes a job w/ the Pacers?

-- Sam Perkins -- Big Smooth does well in his current role and doesn't seem to be interested in moving to the bench.

-- Patrick Ewing -- Not ready quite yet, but maybe within the next 5 years

-- Tom Thibodeau -- Not ready to leave Boston yet and seems like he will have his pick of a few teams of where he wants to go

PaceBalls
01-29-2010, 04:59 AM
Anyone would be better at this point, hell, bring back Isaiah. I would jump for joy. The Quick => Jim's fast break jump shooting offense.

I like the idea of Bill Lambier, I liked what he did with those Detroit WNBA teams, but different league, different attitudes etc... he is passionate and might get the boys fired up, however, how long would that last? He would be a good choice for the remainder of the season or 1 year and see how it goes.

I doubt Kevin McHale wants to coach, but yea... one of the greatest PFs of all time would be nice to have for our young fellas.

I wouldn't be opposed to having Mark Jackson come in for the rest of the season as a test run, but I see what you guys are saying about paying your dues. There are a lot of good assisstants in this league that are much more qualified. Bringing in MJ would be a move to bring in some fans for the rest of the season, and maybe he might actually be a good coach? /crapshoot

After this season:

Larry Brown, whenever he gets sick of Charlotte.

McKeyFan
01-29-2010, 08:15 AM
JOB had defenses in Philly and Boston that were above average, but that doesn't seem to be a fact anymore that people want to believe.

This team will get better defensively when it gets better defensive players. And when I'm talking about "defensive players", I don't mean scrubs like Soloman Jones who are career 12th men.

Right now, they have the slowest, most unathletic frontcourt in the league. Is there a strategy to make these guys quicker and more athletic?

Bench Murphy.

JohnnyBGoode
01-29-2010, 08:28 AM
Bench Murphy.

And the unemployment rate will drop to zero and there will be peace on earth.

Unclebuck
01-29-2010, 08:41 AM
I am saving all those posts where you say, "you'll take anybody" We'll see how that works out for us

Brad8888
01-29-2010, 09:04 AM
Byron Scott or Lawrence Frank (more likely to get Frank), while bringing in McHale as a special consultant to work with our bigs and teach them what it takes to play in the NBA at a higher level than they currently can, and also to evaluate who we have and make recommendations on which bigs to trade and which to keep going forward. Hire Mark Jackson in the same capacity for the guards.

This summer, if he hasn't committed anywhere, hire Avery Johnson to come in and teach defensive fundamentals as a special consultant to whoever is still here after the draft.

PaceBalls
01-29-2010, 09:04 AM
I am saving all those posts where you say, "you'll take anybody" We'll see how that works out for us

hah,
I hope so. Is there any coach in the league worse than Jim right now? Not as far as I can see... Don Nelson? Dunleavy? Del Negro? I can't say those guys are worse.

Jim has made every wrong decision at every turn this season except for a few things where he had exhausted every other option. For example... Jim stopped playing Roy and Troy together 2 games ago after exhausting every other possible lineup... after 100+ games... And even then he came to the wrong conclusion because of his obssesive man-love for Troy Murphy and spreading the defense.

For me his coaching decisions have become so ridiculous that yes, I'd take anyone else. I'd even be happy with you coaching the team Uncle Buck ;)

Brad8888
01-29-2010, 09:08 AM
hah,
I hope so. Is there any coach in the league worse than Jim right now? Not as far as I can see... Don Nelson? Dunleavy? Del Negro? I can't say those guys are worse.

Jim has made every wrong decision at every turn this season except for a few things where he had exhausted every other option. For example... Jim stopped playing Roy and Troy together 2 games ago after exhausting every other possible lineup... after 100+ games... And even then he came to the wrong conclusion because of his obssesive man-love for Troy Murphy and spreading the defense.

For me his coaching decisions has become so ridiculous that yes, I'd take anyone else. I'd even be happy with you coaching the team Uncle Buck ;)

Actually, thunderbird1245 would be a great choice if we are thinking of any members here. I really miss his insights. Hopefully he is doing well with his team this year.

PaceBalls
01-29-2010, 09:13 AM
Actually, thunderbird1245 would be a great choice if we are thinking of any members here. I really miss his insights. Hopefully he is doing well with his team this year.

Yeah where has he been? I really enjoyed his in depth posts as well.

Sadly.. I think most of us would do a better job at coaching the Pacers. You read the posts from this season and you see how a majority of the posters saw the problem straight away within 4 games after the 5 game win streak.

Were we really 5-2 at the start of the season? Did we really win 5 games in a row? Did we really destroy the Celtics and completely amaze their team by how awesome our transition defense was? Did we really go 4-25 after Murphy entered the starting lineup and played 30+ minutes a game when he returned from his injury after the 5 game win streak?

WTF Jim

BillS
01-29-2010, 09:35 AM
My suggestion would be to let Billy Keller finish out the year.

Woohoo! And for that you get 11 dancing bananas:

:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
:dance::dance::dance::dance:

Justin Tyme
01-29-2010, 10:59 AM
As for replacements I was going to suggest my dog but she's not a 'people'.... but she'd still do better than O'Brien. But at this point, that isn't too hard.


LOL! That's a new low for Jimmy, by being replaced by a dog. I'm sure she'd be more popular with the fans than Jimmy is. Maybe even with the players too. If she's a pure breed, she probably has a better background in championships too.

DaveP63
01-29-2010, 10:59 AM
Gene Hackman, I mean he got Hickory to the state championship, didn't he? (Ducks behind the desk for cover...)

Sookie
01-29-2010, 11:09 AM
Anyone would be better at this point, hell, bring back Isaiah. I would jump for joy. The Quick => Jim's fast break jump shooting offense.

I like the idea of Bill Lambier, I liked what he did with those Detroit WNBA teams, but different league, different attitudes etc... he is passionate and might get the boys fired up, however, how long would that last? He would be a good choice for the remainder of the season or 1 year and see how it goes.

I doubt Kevin McHale wants to coach, but yea... one of the greatest PFs of all time would be nice to have for our young fellas.

I wouldn't be opposed to having Mark Jackson come in for the rest of the season as a test run, but I see what you guys are saying about paying your dues. There are a lot of good assisstants in this league that are much more qualified. Bringing in MJ would be a move to bring in some fans for the rest of the season, and maybe he might actually be a good coach? /crapshoot

After this season:

Larry Brown, whenever he gets sick of Charlotte.

Teaching basketball isn't any different for men and women, the difference is how you teach it.

Bill Lambier would not work with a bunch of egotystical superstars. He just wouldn't. He's a dominant coach, unless he won a bunch of championships. *The Lakers for instance, would do anything Phil Jackson told them to do. I think he makes them meditate or have a "grown up timeout" as Kobe calls it* But Bill's a new coach. No superstar would take it.

However, our team isn't filled with superstars. Our team is filled with a bunch of guys that went to college for four years. And I at least know what Calhoun was like..he was like Bill. My guess is other college coaches are the same. And therefore the team would respond well to him, and learn something from him. And we'd end up with that fiesty "blue collar" team we all want to see.

Justin Tyme
01-29-2010, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=Smoothdave1;952357]


-- Brian Shaw (Little known fact: BShaw almost became our coach the summer we hired JOB). Shaw & Bird are former teamcmates in Boston and he would be fun to watch.


This is the exact thing I fear the most. Bird choosing another coach with Celtic green connections. The 3rd time is charm isn't going to happen either.

Justin Tyme
01-29-2010, 11:31 AM
There is no way Bird is going to fire Jimmy O'Stubborn b4 this season is finished. Bird has too much pride and stubborness to admit he's wrong at this point. I can see Bird letting O'Brien go during the offseason though if Herb is willing to pay 2 coaches salaries next year. Then again I could see O'Brien back next year too.:eek::-o Unless things drastically change, I don't believe he would finish out the season either.

I wouldn't be against the idea of a good assistant coach as the next Pacers head coach. A few that haven't been mentioned are

Elston Turner
Tyrone Corbin
Monty Williams

I'm sure there are others as well.

PaceBalls
01-29-2010, 01:14 PM
Teaching basketball isn't any different for men and women, the difference is how you teach it.

Bill Lambier would not work with a bunch of egotystical superstars. He just wouldn't. He's a dominant coach, unless he won a bunch of championships. *The Lakers for instance, would do anything Phil Jackson told them to do. I think he makes them meditate or have a "grown up timeout" as Kobe calls it* But Bill's a new coach. No superstar would take it.

However, our team isn't filled with superstars. Our team is filled with a bunch of guys that went to college for four years. And I at least know what Calhoun was like..he was like Bill. My guess is other college coaches are the same. And therefore the team would respond well to him, and learn something from him. And we'd end up with that fiesty "blue collar" team we all want to see.

I agree about Bill, this group would respond well to him, he would be a great replacement to Jim, if even just for the short term.

I'm guessing most of the players are ready to move on by now. How many years of bad strategies with bad offense, bad defense, bad substitutions, bad recognition of any type of chemistry and losing can guys be satisfied with, hopefully less than one. But 3?

A guy like Bill could get these guys proud of being basketball players again at least.

I agree about basketball knowledge not being gender specific, not just that, but I think women should be able to play in the NBA. I am all for signing Tamika Catchings to the Pacers. 6th man (woman) of the year there. git r done, Larry.

cdash
01-29-2010, 02:15 PM
I want an up and coming assistant, not a retread coach like Obie was. Thibodeau in Boston, Turner in Houston, and guys like that. I know we all loved Jackson as a player, but he has zero coaching experience and I don't think we want a possible Vinny Del Negro situation here.

Thinking outside the box a little, I wouldn't mind it if Bird showed some interest in a top flight international coach. I think it's a matter of time before it happens in the NBA, and it would drum up some interest in the team. I'm not saying he should do it, but there are certainly worse ideas floating around.

d_c
01-29-2010, 02:24 PM
Thinking outside the box a little, I wouldn't mind it if Bird showed some interest in a top flight international coach. I think it's a matter of time before it happens in the NBA, and it would drum up some interest in the team. I'm not saying he should do it, but there are certainly worse ideas floating around.

Just like anyone else, an international coach who has no experience at all in the NBA needs to first work a few years as an assistant before being a head coach. I would say the same for any NCAA coach who wants to be an NBA head coach.

An international coach right now from Europe (for example) wouldn't know the make up of the league. Wouldn't know the strengths and weakness of players, teams and strategies that they like to employ. He would be unfamiliar with the tendencies of officials, and how certain officials call a game differently than others. He wouldn't know any of this because he hasn't spent any time experiencing it.

He'd also have to get used to the fact that games are longer and the schedule is far more demanding, as there are more games and less time for practices. And this is to say nothing about a shorter shot clock, different rules about lane violations on offense/defense, etc...

And I'm not saying this stuff can't be learned. It surely can. It's just that no team is going to waste away several months just for a guy to get acclimated to all this stuff when they can hire several well qualified NBA assistants who know this stuff like the back of their hand.

So an international guy should be expected to pick this stuff up as an NBA assistant, gain experience and work up his resume before he actually gets a real head coaching job. Then, yeah, it might not be such a bad idea. Jay Triano in Toronto technically fits this bill, as he spent years as an NBA assistant before becoming head coach.

90'sNBARocked
01-29-2010, 02:24 PM
After 3 years of no defense Id take

Jeff Van Gundy
Tom Tibbeadu (sp?)
Byron Scott
Mark Jackson (cause it would be a fun refreshing change)

90'sNBARocked
01-29-2010, 02:26 PM
I want an up and coming assistant, not a retread coach like Obie was. Thibodeau in Boston, Turner in Houston, and guys like that. I know we all loved Jackson as a player, but he has zero coaching experience and I don't think we want a possible Vinny Del Negro situation here.

Thinking outside the box a little, I wouldn't mind it if Bird showed some interest in a top flight international coach. I think it's a matter of time before it happens in the NBA, and it would drum up some interest in the team. I'm not saying he should do it, but there are certainly worse ideas floating around.

oh my gosh, if Bird wasnt runing things I would say yes, but with him there an a European coach, we would become the Toronto Pacers.

Trophy
01-29-2010, 02:28 PM
OK, so basically you want every coach in the league to be a miracle worker and make guys who are slow and unathletic into guys who are quick and athletic. You want a coach who can make Troy's short arms into the length of Kevin Garnett's arms.

Was Murphy any good defensively under Rick Carlisle? He looked like the same player under him.

As a Troy Murphy fan, be glad that O'brien emphasizes the 3 point shot because that's the one thing Murphy is good at. He's playing to the guy's strength and not trying to make him into some great defensive player that only exists in your wild fantasies.

How long have you seen Troy under Rick? He was only here for half a season before Rick was fired.

Oh yeah short arms? This isn't about his arms. He's able to get at least 10 rebounds a night so I don't think he has small rebounds. He needs to work better with his body and feet in the post along side Roy.

Any defensive minded head coach would probably like to coach Troy because his whole system is defense and not just Troy, but the whole team can benefit. Everyone here or almost everyone can score so that's something we don't have to worry about. It's the defense and Troy and the team need a defensive coach who can force everyone to follow in practice and also in games.

cdash
01-29-2010, 02:30 PM
Just like anyone else, an international coach who has no experience at all in the NBA needs to first work a few years as an assistant before being a head coach. I would say the same for any NCAA coach who wants to be an NBA head coach.

An international coach right now from Europe (for example) wouldn't know the make up of the league. Wouldn't know the strengths and weakness of players, teams and strategies that they like to employ. He would be unfamiliar with the tendencies of officials, and how certain officials call a game differently than others. He wouldn't know any of this because he hasn't spent any time experiencing it.

He'd also have to get used to the fact that games are longer and the schedule is far more demanding, as there are more games and less time for practices. And this is to say nothing about a shorter shot clock, different rules about lane violations on offense/defense, etc...

And I'm not saying this stuff can't be learned. It surely can. It's just that no team is going to waste away several months just for a guy to get acclimated to all this stuff when they can hire several well qualified NBA assistants who know this stuff like the back of their hand.

So an international guy should be expected to pick this stuff up as an NBA assistant, gain experience and work up his resume before he actually gets a real head coaching job. Then, yeah, it might not be such a bad idea. Jay Triano in Toronto technically fits this bill, as he spent years as an NBA assistant before becoming head coach.

I don't disagree with any of that, but it would be a fresh perspective, no? It's just a different idea. The chances of it happening are zilch, but I wouldn't mind reading something about Bird showing interest in an international coach on ESPN.com Rumor Central.

d_c
01-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Any defensive minded head coach would probably like to coach Troy because his whole system is defense and not just Troy, but the whole team can benefit. Everyone here or almost everyone can score so that's something we don't have to worry about. It's the defense and Troy and the team need a defensive coach who can force everyone to follow in practice and also in games.

I just don't even know how to respond to this.

Just keep rooting for Troy and be happy, lol.

Unclebuck
01-29-2010, 02:57 PM
After 3 years of no defense Id take




That is the common refrain - but the stats simply don't bare that out.

Pacers currently have the 11th best defensive field goal percentage and are currently 8th best in what is known as oppoents adjusted fg%. So it seems to me that it is somewhat a myth that the Pacers play no defense. Sure it needs to be better, but 11th or 8th is pretty good. The offense is more of a problem this season

I know some of you argue against the Defensive FG% as the most important defensive stat. But when you look at the league leaders, I think we all can agree that these are the best defensive teams.
Cavs
Bulls
Thunder
Lakers
Magic
Celtcs
Bobcats
Jazz
Mavs
Heat
Spurs
Nuggets.


at the worst in this category are the worst defensive teams.
Knicks
Wolves
Warriors
Nets

Bball
01-29-2010, 03:10 PM
That is the common refrain - but the stats simply don't bare that out.



I don't need stats to show me an unbalanced spray and pray offense is gift-wrapping points for the opposing team going the other way.

I actually think our defense does look improved... when it has time to setup. But since that is rarely the case because we are wasting possessions on the offensive side of the court and taking, quick, rushed shots with our players out of position... it leads to points the other way and an inability for us to defend.

-Bball

BillS
01-29-2010, 04:16 PM
I think Bball and UB are both right, it is just that we get clobbered by the differential when we both miss the shot and the opponent gets the score some percentage of the time.

We defend above average, but 0% scoring (missed shot) is going to lose to x% FG defense *(2 or 3 point shot) for the opponents when we miss at the rate we do.

Peck
01-29-2010, 04:24 PM
Woohoo! And for that you get 11 dancing bananas:

:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
:dance::dance::dance::dance:

BTW I was serious about that, I think Keller would be perfect as an interim coach and if for some reason things made a dramatic turn around I wouldn't mind seeing him get a longer term but if not then keep him on staff.

He obviously understands the fundamentals of basketball very well. I don't know if he understands how to put that all together from a coaching point of view but then I am not sure Burke does either.

Kemo
01-29-2010, 04:34 PM
LOL ... Bobby Knight

:dance::dance:

Bball
01-29-2010, 04:38 PM
I think you're all selling my dog short on coaching the Pacers. She's all about defense and would be nipping at the players' heels to play defense. She knows about chasing your tail on offense and she absolutely doesn't do that. She knows how to dig in...

No way would she allow the players to just dog it...

She's seen what O'Brien likes to do and thinks he's barking up the wrong tree...

She stresses a defense that will really collar the opposition...

She's fair but wants all of her players on a short leash...

She expects discipline on both sides of the court and is not afraid to bark out orders...

Do what she wants or you're in the doghouse...

She's not about small ball and likes to roll with the big dogs...

She can sniff out weakness in an opponent...

She'll work for dog biscuits....

1984
01-29-2010, 05:28 PM
JOB had defenses in Philly and Boston that were above average, but that doesn't seem to be a fact anymore that people want to believe.

This team will get better defensively when it gets better defensive players. And when I'm talking about "defensive players", I don't mean scrubs like Soloman Jones who are career 12th men.

Right now, they have the slowest, most unathletic frontcourt in the league. Is there a strategy to make these guys quicker and more athletic?

I can agree with you D.C., Jim O'Brien had marginal defenses in Boston and Philidelphia based on opponent scoring averages:

01 - 96.8
02 - 94.1
03 - 93.1
04 - 96.7
05 - 99.9
*08 - 105.4
*09 - 106.2
*10 - 104.3

You are also right, the Pacers' lack of success is in part due to the speed of their front court. However, I am confident that there are few rosters capable of producing acceptable defensive results while using a scheme similar to Jim O'Brien's (marginal, in my opinion, is not an acceptable result).

I think Dahanty Jones is the not only "an" example but "the" example. In my humble opinion, Dahntay has not produced defensive results similar to what he was known for in Denver. Does Dahntay lack quickness? No. Does Dahntay lack legitimate defensive skills? No. Dahntay has been reduced to a marginal defensive player because this particular system is capable of fostering nothing more.

--
*Indiana Career