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Pacemaker
01-28-2010, 12:16 PM
By JEFF EISENBERG
The Press-Enterprise

Indiana's Conseco Fieldhouse has a reputation as one of the NBA's best arenas because of its intimate size, great sightlines and memorabilia-laden concourse, but Phil Jackson doesn't seem to share that opinion.

"I've never been upstairs," he said. "I've only been down here and I don't like the downstairs part of it. The locker rooms aren't great. The coach's room is nonexistent. That's the part we see, the functioning part."

http://www.pe.com/sports/basketball/lakers/stories/PE_Sports_Local_W_lakers_notes_28.475a8c4.html

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2010, 12:25 PM
Opinions are like a-holes.... Everybody has one!

Anyway, I can't speak for "the functioning part" of the building, but the areas where the paying customers have access to is easily one of the best in the country according to fans and media from all over the world.

Or so I've been told :D

Sparhawk
01-28-2010, 12:26 PM
So what, just about every fan doesn't see the locker rooms nor the coach's room.

Kegboy
01-28-2010, 12:54 PM
From my tour, I do remember that the ref's rooms are nice. :(

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Poor Phil doesn't like the visitor's lockerroom.

Maybe he'd like the home team's lockerroom and coach's office better?

But then again, we'd have to have a team with a bunch of superstars so that Phil couldn't be exposed for being an average coach with exceptionally talented teams. So that won't happen.

Dr. Awesome
01-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Jim O'Brien doesn't deserve a coach's room.

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:06 PM
Jim O'Brien doesn't deserve a coach's room.

ZING!

Its not like he needs a whiteboard to draw offensive plays on. He just needs a donut.

Dr. Awesome
01-28-2010, 01:07 PM
Poor Phil doesn't like the visitor's lockerroom.

Maybe he'd like the home team's lockerroom and coach's office better?

But then again, we'd have to have a team with a bunch of superstars so that Phil couldn't be exposed for being an average coach with exceptionally talented teams. So that won't happen.

Exactly, I hate how people call him a Hall of Fame coach. I would like to see him coach a below average or even decent team and have them succeed before we do that. He has only won when hes had far and away the best team in the NBA. Heck, half the board here could coach Jordan and crew to at least 1 Championship.

vapacersfan
01-28-2010, 01:14 PM
Exactly, I hate how people call him a Hall of Fame coach. I would like to see him coach a below average or even decent team and have them succeed before we do that. He has only won when hes had far and away the best team in the NBA. Heck, half the board here could coach Jordan and crew to at least 1 Championship.

I agree with you and Jay.

But to be fair to Phil Kobe did not do jack ***** in the NBA before Phil Jackson, and Phil really did help him elevate his game.

CableKC
01-28-2010, 01:15 PM
Take a potshot at the Team's Coach for running SmallBall against a huge frontcourt....no problem.

But take a potshot at the Team's Arena? That's crossing the line.....

Dr. Awesome
01-28-2010, 01:20 PM
I agree with you and Jay.

But to be fair to Phil Kobe did not do jack ***** in the NBA before Phil Jackson, and Phil really did help him elevate his game.

Kobe averaged 15.4 ppg his second year out of high school in only 26 minutes, it was very clear he always had the talent.

Speed
01-28-2010, 01:20 PM
Phil's spent too much time in LA. He's forgotten where he came from.

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:21 PM
I agree with you and Jay.

But to be fair to Phil Kobe did not do jack ***** in the NBA before Phil Jackson, and Phil really did help him elevate his game.

Turning 21 at about the same time probably also helped Kobe as well.

Unclebuck
01-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Phil Jackson is a lot better than an average coach, so suggest otherwise is just wrong. he might be a jerk and all that, but the man is a great coach

Brad8888
01-28-2010, 01:23 PM
ZING!

Its not like he needs a whiteboard to draw offensive plays on. He just needs a donut.

Half a donut, isn't it?

When will Jim understand that on a lot of donuts, the best parts are the little spherical donut holes, the "interior" of the donuts, especially when they bag them up and sell just the holes! Yummy!

vapacersfan
01-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Kobe averaged 15.4 ppg his second year out of high school in only 26 minutes, it was very clear he always had the talent.


Turning 21 at about the same time probably also helped Kobe as well.

Never argued his talent, but the team still was going no where.

I was simply pointing out there are always 2 sides to every argument.

FWIW, I typically agree Phil is overrated as a coach. But I am not ready to say anyone with 2 legs and 2 arms can do as good a job as he has, simply because he has talent to work with.

vapacersfan
01-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Phil Jackson is a lot better than an average coach, so suggest otherwise is just wrong. he might be a jerk and all that, but the man is a great coach

Agreed.

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Phil Jackson is a lot better than an average coach, so suggest otherwise is just wrong. he might be a jerk and all that, but the man is a great coach

Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen with taking a very talented roster and turning them into multiple-time champions.

There is something to be said for that.

But if you think Phil Jackson would have THIS roster above 16-30 right now, you're kidding yourself. And there are a few coaches around the league that might have THIS roster closer to 20-26 but Phil is not one of them.

vapacersfan
01-28-2010, 01:32 PM
Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen with taking a very talented roster and turning them into multiple-time champions.

There is something to be said for that.

But if you think Phil Jackson would have THIS roster above 16-30 right now, you're kidding yourself. And there are a few coaches around the league that might have THIS roster closer to 20-26 but Phil is not one of them.

I also agree with this.

FWIW, I do not think it would matter who was coaching, I do not think anyone could get this team above .500

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:34 PM
I also agree with this.

FWIW, I do not think it would matter who was coaching, I do not think anyone could get this team above .500

The reality is, Phil would have quit before now. Not that "he can't stand losing", but because he'd be looking bad.

However, if I were put in charge of coaching that roster now (and with no guarantee that I'd still be the coach when Hibbert, Rush, Tyler, AJ, etc. are truly paying dividends), I'd quit too!

Unclebuck
01-28-2010, 01:35 PM
Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen with taking a very talented roster and turning them into multiple-time champions.

There is something to be said for that.

But if you think Phil Jackson would have THIS roster above 16-30 right now, you're kidding yourself. And there are a few coaches around the league that might have THIS roster closer to 20-26 but Phil is not one of them.

Maybe. Sure I could see Larry Brown could probably get more wins out of the current Pacers than Phil could - Maybe Pop also.

if you go back and look at years Phil didn't have a great team I still think he did a nice job. The year after Michael left the Bulls (the first time) he coached the Bulls to 55 wins

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Maybe. Sure I could see Larry Brown could probably get more wins out of the current Pacers than Phil could - Maybe Pop also.

Skiles.

Nellie.

Karl.

Sloan.

Since86
01-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Phil is a better psychologist than he is a basketball coach IMHO. He handles the player's egos better than others around the league.

The Lakers winning with Kobe and Shaq, and them not killing each other is the feat. Not actually coaching them.

count55
01-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Jackson as coach = Hall of Fame

Jackson as critic of basketball arenas = Who gives a ****?

Brad8888
01-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Skiles.

Nellie.

Karl.

Sloan.

One of these coaches
just doesn't belong here

One of these coaches
just isn't the same

Which one of these coaches
just doesn't belong here?

Tell me,
can you guess which one
before my song is done?

Unclebuck
01-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Skiles.

Nellie.

Karl.

Sloan.

Nellie - No

Dr. Awesome
01-28-2010, 01:53 PM
Nellie - No

Yea, Nellie would have Granger playing Center and AJ Price at PF.

pwee31
01-28-2010, 02:06 PM
We've already seen what Nellie thinks of Murphy and Dunleavy, results= just as bad

ChicagoJ
01-28-2010, 02:17 PM
You guys are kidding me, right?

Nellie's best attribute has been taking off-balance rosters (Milwaukee, Run-TMC) and finding a way to maximize thier production. I'm not talking about the current version of Nellie, because I have no opinion on that. Look at his total body of work... especially with rosters that were not highly regarded UNTIL, and BECAUSE Nellie worked with them.

You can't say, "anybody could win with Run-TMC" because everyone around the league was amazed Nellie could pull fifty wins out of a team without a legit PF AND without a legit C.


We've already seen what Nellie thinks of Murphy and Dunleavy, results= just as bad

Given the total body of Nellie's work since the early 80s, and the total body of Murphy and Dunleavy to-date, I think that says a lot more about Murphy's and Dunleavy's ineffectiveness (irregardless of statistical contributions) than Nellie.

I don't like small-ball because it is a gimmick. But if there is a coach with a long, long history of successfully using gimmicks (including small-ball) to get the most of out a team, its Nellie.

Mr_Smith
01-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Awww poor Phil. Thats the first time I have heard anything negative about conseco.

Hicks
01-28-2010, 02:28 PM
We've already seen what Nellie thinks of Murphy and Dunleavy, results= just as bad

And that was after he tried Troy at the 5 and gave up on him.

Yes, that's right. Don Nelson decided Troy Murphy at the 5 was a bad idea.

Don. ****ing. Nelson.

Think about that.

Please, Jim, continue.

McKeyFan
01-28-2010, 02:43 PM
Remember, Phil Jackson is surrounding by people who think it is L.A.'s right to swap JO for Jordan Farmar.

So, of course. His offices at Conseco should be nicer.

Basketball Fan
01-28-2010, 03:01 PM
I agree with you and Jay.

But to be fair to Phil Kobe did not do jack ***** in the NBA before Phil Jackson, and Phil really did help him elevate his game.



Jordan, Shaq nor Pippen won anything before Phil either and believe me I have disliked Phil Jackson for as long as I can remember growing up in Northern Indiana and all I was surrounded by Bulls love(blech)

However after last season I really do think he's a good coach before he had to have two HOFers. Last season he only had one: Kobe.

Sure Gasol, Odom etc are good but Gasol never won a playoff game let alone a series before he got to L.A. and Odom was a total underachiever as well.

Psycho T
01-29-2010, 04:26 PM
Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen with taking a very talented roster and turning them into multiple-time champions.

There is something to be said for that.

But if you think Phil Jackson would have THIS roster above 16-30 right now, you're kidding yourself. And there are a few coaches around the league that might have THIS roster closer to 20-26 but Phil is not one of them.

Dont know about that.. The triangle would be a lot more effective than whatever the Pacers are doing now. He gets the best out of his players seemingly every game and his teams rarely look lost unlike the Pacers who look lost seemingly every game.

IMO the Pacers are a playoff team with Phil Jackson as the coach.

Peck
01-29-2010, 04:30 PM
You guys are kidding me, right?

Nellie's best attribute has been taking off-balance rosters (Milwaukee, Run-TMC) and finding a way to maximize thier production. I'm not talking about the current version of Nellie, because I have no opinion on that. Look at his total body of work... especially with rosters that were not highly regarded UNTIL, and BECAUSE Nellie worked with them.

You can't say, "anybody could win with Run-TMC" because everyone around the league was amazed Nellie could pull fifty wins out of a team without a legit PF AND without a legit C.



Given the total body of Nellie's work since the early 80s, and the total body of Murphy and Dunleavy to-date, I think that says a lot more about Murphy's and Dunleavy's ineffectiveness (irregardless of statistical contributions) than Nellie.

I don't like small-ball because it is a gimmick. But if there is a coach with a long, long history of successfully using gimmicks (including small-ball) to get the most of out a team, its Nellie.

I always think that Chris Gatling gets overlooked to much. Sure he wasn't a killer or nothing and God knows that Shawn Kemp about retired him with that dunk and point but still I always thought he was a good servicable power forward.

d_c
01-29-2010, 04:37 PM
And that was after he tried Troy at the 5 and gave up on him.

Yes, that's right. Don Nelson decided Troy Murphy at the 5 was a bad idea.

Don. ****ing. Nelson.

Think about that.

Please, Jim, continue.

Don Nelson just thought Troy was a bad idea, regardless of position.

When Nellie came back, he announced he would start Murphy at the 5. Someone asked him if he thought Murphy could guard centers. Nellie said "No. He can't guard forwards either."

Hicks
01-29-2010, 04:46 PM
The triangle would be a lot more effective than whatever the Pacers are doing now.

Only in that it wouldn't encourage as many 3's, but otherwise I don't know that it'd really work with us. The triangle is at its best with multifaceted players, and I don't think we have very many of those.

Still, I'd love to try it just to see. Especially when my alternative is what we have now.

I'd be fascinated to put Granger at the mid post in the triangle offense and see what happens. Luther head would work well at the 1 in it because the 1 usually gets rid of the ball early on in the setup.

Actually, the more I think about it, the less negative I am about the idea, but at the end of the day, as I have understood it up to now, the more talented and multidimensional your roster, the better the triangle will work.

I think I recall reading that Quinn Buckner (or maybe it was someone else) tried using the triangle while coaching a bad Dallas Mavericks team, and it flopped.

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2010, 04:47 PM
Kobe averaged 15.4 ppg his second year out of high school in only 26 minutes, it was very clear he always had the talent.
I agree, but...

He didn't take over teams with so much talent that they were already winning titles. Chicago had the guys and it took Phil to push it through to a Finals, let alone the title. Ditto with the Lakers who had a full 3 seasons of Kobe-Shaq before bringing in Phil to save the day.

Then as a capper he leaves, the Lakers miss the playoffs and realize "oh, he's kinda good". He returns and right away they win 11 more games than the previous year, no significant playing time additions, and are back in the playoffs.

The dude got 42 wins with Smush and Walton as starters next to Kobe with uninspired Odom and still not ready Bynum. Lebron's got nothing on Kobe when it comes to that "awesome" supporting cast.

He might not win titles without title caliber teams, but what coach does? Plenty have great teams that fizzle out in round 1 or 2.


I hate the dude for his Bulls and Lakers vs Pacers days. I hate how he goes begging for fouls in every post game. But he is a good coach and does make a team better.

ChicagoJ
01-29-2010, 05:01 PM
I always think that Chris Gatling gets overlooked to much. Sure he wasn't a killer or nothing and God knows that Shawn Kemp about retired him with that dunk and point but still I always thought he was a good servicable power forward.

I liked Gatling, and he was a fine sixth man, but we're talking about Gatling and that sorta gets to my point... Nellie got 50+ wins out of three guards, and a pair of servicable PFs (Tyrone Hill and Billy Owens) with no Center.

Sookie
01-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Phil is a better psychologist than he is a basketball coach IMHO. He handles the player's egos better than others around the league.

The Lakers winning with Kobe and Shaq, and them not killing each other is the feat. Not actually coaching them.

Actually, according to Shaq, Phil used to start fights between the two.

Because Kobe didn't need to be motivated, but Shaq needed to be..and feeling like he needed to outdo Kobe was the best way to motivate him.

I think they'd probably have gotten along better with a coach that didn't pit them against each other.

But they would have won less.

And anyone who thinks that this team wouldn't have a better record under Phil Jackson, is nuts. Kobe is Kobe, but in general our starters and backups are better than Smush Parker and Luke Walton.

One of my favorite quotes.

"There are two types of coaches, those that coach great players and retired coaches"

Of course Phil won with title calibeer teams. You can't win a championship without one.

1984
01-29-2010, 06:04 PM
How ironic, Conseco Fieldhouse is not impressed with Phil Jackson. He and his twelve championships...

BlueNGold
01-29-2010, 06:33 PM
Phil Jackson is the best coach I've ever seen with taking a very talented roster and turning them into multiple-time champions.

There is something to be said for that.

But if you think Phil Jackson would have THIS roster above 16-30 right now, you're kidding yourself. And there are a few coaches around the league that might have THIS roster closer to 20-26 but Phil is not one of them.

Yes, Phil Jackson is over-rated. He's considered good because he spent over a decade coaching the two best players to wear a uniform. Shaq in his prime wasn't bad either.

In 1993/94, he still had 3 all-stars in Pippen, Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong...and one other all-star calibre in Kukoc. He also had Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, Will Perdue, Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley...all solid vets. Yet, he couldn't even get out of the second round. That's just how unimpressive his coaching is with only 3 or 4 all-stars on his team.

Same in 94/95 as their regular season record started to drop. The fact is, Jackson is whatever MJ, Kobe and Shaq could do for him.

JOb would have a handful of rings too with that talent.

Hicks
01-29-2010, 07:17 PM
He's overrated, but in "he's an A- being called an A+" kind of way.

BlueNGold
01-29-2010, 07:35 PM
He's overrated, but in "he's an A- being called an A+" kind of way.

I wouldn't argue too much with that. The problem I have with him is...he's standing on the shoulders of giants thinking he's da man.

the jaddler
01-29-2010, 08:43 PM
So the visitors locker room sucks....isnt that the point to make them uncomfortable to possible through them off there game just a little more....just another tatic in the sports world, pretty sure this happens every where at every level, that the way i remember it from high school and college.....

judicata
01-29-2010, 08:52 PM
By every metric that counts, Jackson is a fantastic coach. I don't get trying to undermine his accomplishments by saying he had great players. There is a Hall of Fame full of great players that never won a single championship, much less 10. It just seems small.

You might think he is a douche canoe, but that's something else entirely.

Lord Helmet
01-29-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm not impressed with Phil Jackson.