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View Full Version : Possible buyout of T.J.????



sportfireman
01-27-2010, 06:16 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64312/20100127/celtics_could_add_veteran_following_buyout/



Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com writes that the Celtics could add a veteran player to their roster over the next month.

Boston could wait for a veteran to be bought out by his current team and Sheridan listed Keyon Dooling, T.J. Ford, Mark Blount, Tony Battie, Jarvis Hayes, Trenton Hassell as potential fits.

I haven't heard anything about it so I was just wondering if we were trying to buy him out??? If so Bird is just pissing money the Pacers don't have away.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 06:20 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64312/20100127/celtics_could_add_veteran_following_buyout/




I haven't heard anything about it so I was just wondering if we were trying to buy him out??? If so Bird is just pissing money the Pacers don't have away.

Sheridan is pretty acurate in my opinion and could explain the benching as a way to motivate TJ to be bought out.

The more I think about it , the more I am seeing a side of the PAcers that I dont like.

Walsh really was classy in his dealing with the Pacers, Bird Im not sure about

vnzla81
01-27-2010, 06:23 PM
maybe the buyout is for the contract for the rest of the season, I don't think you can include next year because is a player option and he has not pick that up yet.

sportfireman
01-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Sheridan is pretty acurate in my opinion and could explain the benching as a way to motivate TJ to be bought out.

The more I think about it , the more I am seeing a side of the PAcers that I dont like.

Walsh really was classy in his dealing with the Pacers, Bird Im not sure about


I've ALWAYS liked Walsh, I didn't know much about Bird. Who knows maybe thats why Walsh left, he may not have liked the way Bird does business.:hmm:

jhondog28
01-27-2010, 06:24 PM
God this is sooo stupid. The Pacers are going no where this year. Why not play TJ in smaller amounts of minutes and trade him below his value. If no one wants him then buy him out, but to just sit him as a way to motivate him to accept a buyout to me feels dirty and sleezy by the front office. That is the same thing as my boss making my work environment uncomfortable to force me to quit...it is just against everything I have learned when it comes to business ethics.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 06:27 PM
maybe the buyout is for the contract for the rest of the season, I don't think you can include next year because is a player option and he has not pick that up yet.


Good point, not sure either but maybe they are letting TJ know that if he picks up the option next year he will be 4th PG again

I hope that is not the case as my greatest fear will be that players around the NBA will think of current management as slimy and underhanded, when under Walsh we had a solid repoutation for taking care of our own

NapTonius Monk
01-27-2010, 06:54 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64312/20100127/celtics_could_add_veteran_following_buyout/




I haven't heard anything about it so I was just wondering if we were trying to buy him out??? If so Bird is just pissing money the Pacers don't have away.

A buyout doesn't add anything, because you're dealing with a salary you'd already be paying anyway.

vnzla81
01-27-2010, 07:00 PM
A buyout doesn't add anything, because you're dealing with a salary you'd already be paying anyway.

but you don't run the risk of him picking up his option next year

sportfireman
01-27-2010, 07:04 PM
A buyout doesn't add anything, because you're dealing with a salary you'd already be paying anyway.


pissing money away as in having a big contract and just not at least showcasing the player for a trade or something........ but if they can FORCE him into a buyout and save money on next years option then they do save money. Don't like how they are doing it, if thats what they are doing.

CableKC
01-27-2010, 07:10 PM
but you don't run the risk of him picking up his option next year
This is something ( hint hint count55 ) that someone that is more knowledgable about how the SalaryCap/Buyout works for Player options will have to answer.

I'd assume that if we'd only had to pay for this years guaranteed $$$ and not next years in a buyout ( cuz of the Player option )....we'd have done it already. I'd hope that if this does happen that TPTB would work out a buyout of 2/3 of his contract. That'd save them about about $5.7 mil in guaranteed $$$....but not sure how much it'd impact the 2010-2011 SalaryCap.

BPump33
01-27-2010, 07:11 PM
Just a random note....I'm watching t.j. shoot around and as of right now he's 25 of 30 from downtown...where the hell was this shooting?

CableKC
01-27-2010, 07:13 PM
A buyout doesn't add anything, because you're dealing with a salary you'd already be paying anyway.
Yes, a buyout does affect the SalaryCap. How much is shaved off of the remaining years on the SalaryCap is based off of how much the Player was bought out for. After TPTB bought out Tinsley, his impact on the SalaryCap for the next 2 seasons is roughly $5.5 and 5.7 mil per season.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 07:25 PM
I've ALWAYS liked Walsh, I didn't know much about Bird. Who knows maybe thats why Walsh left, he may not have liked the way Bird does business.:hmm:


thats a great point and one I never thought of. It does make sense as to why Donnie would leave the PAcers after sooo many years to do the same thing for the New York Knicks, whom at the sametime were a much worse situation.

Maybe Walsh was fed up but to classy to start a divisonal war so he took the offer NY made and ran with it

bellisimo
01-27-2010, 07:28 PM
Walsh did what Jay Leno could not...

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 07:30 PM
pissing money away as in having a big contract and just not at least showcasing the player for a trade or something........ but if they can FORCE him into a buyout and save money on next years option then they do save money. Don't like how they are doing it, if thats what they are doing.


I doubt the Union would allow that, think back to JT

PacerGuy
01-27-2010, 07:31 PM
I've ALWAYS liked Walsh, I didn't know much about Bird. Who knows maybe thats why Walsh left, he may not have liked the way Bird does business.:hmm:

OR....

This is just a name of a player who is not playing that some writer is speculating about, & nothing more.

Besides, I was listening to an interview by Mike Wells on the DD show today (he was very negative & very synical towards the P's!) where Wells said that NBA people told us that our marriage w/ Ford would likely not last long. While no one said he was a bad guy, they said his on-court play turns off his teammates. His tendency to driddle the shot clock down to 18 sec's then pass, forcing teammates to constantly put up rushed shots, or driving & getting caught under the basket w/ no plan causes much frusteration w/ those he plays with.
I see his "demotion" as more of a "If you can't play the style we need, you can't play" thing, not any "punishment" against him. Sure, there is likely an element of wanting to force his hand w/ the contract, but IMO I just think they hate his game, & after trying 1.5 yrs to change it, they have given up.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 07:34 PM
Come to think of it Bird is really starting to make an azz out of himself

His "tough guy approach " is not working. He tried that in the Jammal Tinsley situation and we still have to pay him for another two years, and was never able to trade him

So now he takes this tough stance of "If the players dont like playing for the coach, they will be the ones leaving"

Memo to Bird : You are not the players father and that hardcore stance is not working.

I think it is becomming more and more evident that Walsh was much more respected and liked than Bird (the GM) can ever dream of

owl
01-27-2010, 07:34 PM
The advantage for TJ is that he can go to any team he wants this year, at least one that wants him at no cost to said team. The advantage to the Pacers is that they are not on
the hook for next season when TJ has an option. Assuming this is correct.
Kind of works for both parties. TJ will sign for a reasonable contract next year it just won't be 7 million. So TJ has to decide what he wants more. Freedom or money.

owl
01-27-2010, 07:39 PM
Come to think of it Bird is really starting to make an azz out of himself

His "tough guy approach " is not working. He tried that in the Jammal Tinsley situation and we still have to pay him for another two years, and was never able to trade him

So now he takes this tough stance of "If the players dont like playing for the coach, they will be the ones leaving"

Memo to Bird : You are not the players father and that hardcore stance is not working.

I think it is becomming more and more evident that Walsh was much more respected and liked than Bird (the GM) can ever dream of

Taking care of your own has lead us to the situation we are in now with many long term,
overpaid contracts to get rid of. Thankfully those days are coming to an end in another
1/2 to 1 1/2 seasons.

PacerGuy
01-27-2010, 07:45 PM
I've ALWAYS liked Walsh, I didn't know much about Bird. Who knows maybe thats why Walsh left, he may not have liked the way Bird does business.:hmm:


Yes, a buyout does affect the SalaryCap. How much is shaved off of the remaining years on the SalaryCap is based off of how much the Player was bought out for. After TPTB bought out Tinsley, his impact on the SalaryCap for the next 2 seasons is roughly $5.5 and 5.7 mil per season.

The amount the player agrees to accept as the buyout figure is then divided over the remaining length of the orignal contract.

(Ex. If TJ had 2 yrs x 8.5 mil (total of 17 mil), but accepted a buyout of 14 mil, the cap hit would be 7 mil/yr. for 2 yrs)

The difference here is TJ has a P/O that he would have to waive, & I'm not sure that can be included. If it could/ were included, the P's would be much better served to allow TJ to sit the remainder of the yr. & try & move him as an expiring in the off season, or use him to start n/y (Watson & Diener are gone) & move him during the season. No was we pay out for t/y & a P/O for n/y just to make him go away. As stated, we already have +/- 6 mil wasted in Tin's deal, no way we add to that "dead money".

sportfireman
01-27-2010, 07:48 PM
Taking care of your own has lead us to the situation we are in now with many long term,
overpaid contracts to get rid of. Thankfully those days are coming to an end in another
1/2 to 1 1/2 seasons.

hopefully so......but we'll see when that time comes. You never know what they may offer Murphy or Dunleavy at the end of their contract.

90'sNBARocked
01-27-2010, 07:54 PM
I see his "demotion" as more of a "If you can't play the style we need, you can't play" thing, not any "punishment" against him. Sure, there is likely an element of wanting to force his hand w/ the contract, but IMO I just think they hate his game, & after trying 1.5 yrs to change it, they have given up.[/QUOTE]



Thats the counterpoint, and a fair one at that

I hope that is truly the case

RandyWrinkles
01-27-2010, 07:57 PM
The advantage for TJ is that he can go to any team he wants this year, at least one that wants him at no cost to said team. The advantage to the Pacers is that they are not on
the hook for next season when TJ has an option. Assuming this is correct.
Kind of works for both parties. TJ will sign for a reasonable contract next year it just won't be 7 million. So TJ has to decide what he wants more. Freedom or money.

This would be perfect. We buy him out for what he is owed this season (if it's for less, even better). He can then sign with another team for the remainder of the season. TJ will then have some pretty good choices:

1. Sign with a contender for the minimum and go for a ring.
2. Sign with the team that will pay the most (this will offset the difference of not picking up the player option and he will get playing time this season).
3. Sign with the team that will give him the most PT and he can earn the best possible contract over the summer.

If he doesn't take a buyout and picks up his option he risks not playing next season. His next contract would likely be for much less than if he signs with another team and proves himself. Either way he will make about the same in the end. He just needs to decide if he wants to play or sit on the bench for his paycheck.

sportfireman
01-27-2010, 07:59 PM
I doubt the Union would allow that, think back to JT
no they aren't holding a gun to his head but they are "legally" forcing his hand........IMO.

PacerGuy
01-27-2010, 08:11 PM
Come to think of it Bird is really starting to make an azz out of himself

His "tough guy approach " is not working. He tried that in the Jammal Tinsley situation and we still have to pay him for another two years, and was never able to trade him

So now he takes this tough stance of "If the players dont like playing for the coach, they will be the ones leaving"

Memo to Bird : You are not the players father and that hardcore stance is not working.

I think it is becomming more and more evident that Walsh was much more respected and liked than Bird (the GM) can ever dream of

1.) LB was w/i 15 min og trading Tin's to Orl for Reddick/Cook before Hou. tore our our heart & offered Austin. After the trade deadline, we had no choice. LB did what he needed & what the owners asked him to do. In the end it did not work out, but I do not blame that all on LB.
2.) Word is that the decision on Tin's to never step foot on Pacers ground came directly from the owners - the day after Tin's shooting derby downtown where a window in the Simon's office building was hit!
3.) Isn't JO'B the coach? Does JO'B or LB make the game lineup's. I'n not saying LB is not in on the conversations, but if TJ is counter-productive to JO'B's style, then it is JO'B sitting TJ. LB is merely not interfering.

4.) How did D.walsh deal w/ Starbury again? How is that so different then LB dealt w/ Tin's? Why is LB a turd while DW gets a pass?

5.) Speaking of DW, you could argue that Walsh's "Nice Guy" approach contributed to some of our issues. He was here when we stood by Ron-Ron for 1 yr. too long & we got burned, his loyalty to J.Bender by extending his RFA contract lost us B.Miller, he was the one who extended Croshere & Tinsley in bad deals, DW has taken much of the "credit" for the Dun/Murph trade & the S.Jax signing, & DW's "coddeling" of JO ended up causing us major headache's.
Don't get me wrong, in the late 90's/early 2k, DW had the Pacers as respected of an orgabization as the Colts are today, but he also helped contribute to decisions that helped end that image as well. Now, DW is gone & LB is cleaning up the mess. Some of this mess is his own doing for sure, but DW is not w/o blame.

BobbyMac
01-27-2010, 08:20 PM
Perhaps before we lynch Bird and the Pacers Management we should wait to see how accurate this gossip column is.

Smoothdave1
01-27-2010, 09:45 PM
My understanding is that T.J. has to wait until after the season to pick up his player option.

For those who think he will accept a buyout and lose out on 8.5 million (player option) next year, you're living in fantasy land. Under no circumstance would Ford leave 8.5 million on the table. He'll never make that much in a season again and may not make that the rest of his NBA career combined and you think he'll leave that on the table to sign with a contender or another team? TJ is a competitor, but money is more important for the time being rather than walk away from 8.5 million.

There are a few scenarios that will play out:

-- TJ is traded either this season or next season as an expiring contract
-- TJ waits until next season, picks up his option and then accepts a buyout during the season while cashing in for most of his contract and signing with someone else
-- TJ plays out his contract with the Pacers after picking up his option
-- TJ picks up his option and takes the Pacers to arbitration if they pull another Tinsley

TJ has had back issues and has been banished to the end of the bench. If and when he resigns with someone else, he'll command the vet minimum or maybe a little more. He'll never see a pay day like he has now unless he re-emerges as an amazing point guard, which is doubtful.

Hicks
01-27-2010, 09:57 PM
So does a buy out get rid of TJ's player option?

Young
01-27-2010, 10:10 PM
I think i'd almost rather see the Pacers buy him out.

He isn't one of the most wanted players around. Even if he picks up his player option teams are going to have the most interest due to his expiring contract...so they are likely to want to send back a player with a longer contract and maybe a draft pick if the Pacers are lucky.

It sucked not getting anything for Jamaal and it would suck to not get anything for TJ. But in their cases I think it was for the best. I would hate to see Bird just accept the best offer to TJ just to get something for him even if that offer doesn't really benefit the Pacers in the long run.

Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and move on. This might be the case with TJ.

Anthem
01-27-2010, 10:21 PM
I was listening to an interview by Mike Wells on the DD show today (he was very negative & very cynical towards the P's!)
Real shocker there.

sportfireman
01-27-2010, 10:37 PM
My understanding is that T.J. has to wait until after the season to pick up his player option.

For those who think he will accept a buyout and lose out on 8.5 million (player option) next year, you're living in fantasy land. Under no circumstance would Ford leave 8.5 million on the table. He'll never make that much in a season again and may not make that the rest of his NBA career combined and you think he'll leave that on the table to sign with a contender or another team? TJ is a competitor, but money is more important for the time being rather than walk away from 8.5 million.

There are a few scenarios that will play out:

-- TJ is traded either this season or next season as an expiring contract
-- TJ waits until next season, picks up his option and then accepts a buyout during the season while cashing in for most of his contract and signing with someone else
-- TJ plays out his contract with the Pacers after picking up his option
-- TJ picks up his option and takes the Pacers to arbitration if they pull another Tinsley

TJ has had back issues and has been banished to the end of the bench. If and when he resigns with someone else, he'll command the vet minimum or maybe a little more. He'll never see a pay day like he has now unless he re-emerges as an amazing point guard, which is doubtful.


Honestly if I were TJ I wouldn't take a buyout I'd say screw you pay me......oh yeah trade me if you can or I'll be accepting that player option next year.......you know the one I have for $8.5 MIL!!!! yeah that one...:laugh:

Infinite MAN_force
01-27-2010, 11:02 PM
The more I think about it , the more I am seeing a side of the PAcers that I dont like.




I don't understand this reasoning. TJ Ford was getting paid a large sum of money to play point gaurd in the NBA, and quite frankly, he wasn't getting the job done. Why should anyone feel sorry for TJ, he is getting paid either way. He is not entitled to playing time.

If we are not gonna play him for the next year and a half, a buyout would be the logical step for both parties. The pacers get out of paying the entire contract, reducing the cap hit slightly, and TJ gets to go play somewhere. What else SHOULD happen? The pacers take back negative value in a trade to get rid of the contract? uh no.

I don't understand how this is "classless", and it is not even like the Tinsley situation. Tinsley was told to stay away from the team (for good reason, by the way). TJ is still with the team and still cheering from the bench.

I don't really see the problem here. If anything, making him rot away on the bench for a year and a half is more classless than trying to buy him out.

Smoothdave1
01-27-2010, 11:03 PM
Honestly if I were TJ I wouldn't take a buyout I'd say screw you pay me......oh yeah trade me if you can or I'll be accepting that player option next year.......you know the one I have for $8.5 MIL!!!! yeah that one...:laugh:

EXACTLY!

If you're TJ, you can say do I:

A. Sit on the bench, practice and travel with the team and pick-up my remaining 4 million this year and exercise my player option for next season for another 8.5 million dollars

B. Accept a buyout for say 2 million of my remaining 4 million dollars owed this season, not have a chance to exercise my player option next season so that I can sign with another team for 1 million a year

Option A worth=$12.5 million (roughly 4 million owed this season and 8.5 million next)

Option B=500k this season (assuming you sign with another team for a prorated salary), 1 million next season (assume the vet min), accepting a buyout of 2 million this season, but leaving another 2 million on the table this season and 8.5 next season or a net loss of about 9 million versus option A

Hmmm, what do you think TJ will do? And no, an NBA team cannot force a player to take a buyout. TJ and his agent would have to agree to do so and, given the future CBA, this won't happen any time soon.

HC
01-27-2010, 11:16 PM
1.) LB was w/i 15 min og trading Tin's to Orl for Reddick/Cook before Hou. tore our our heart & offered Austin. After the trade deadline, we had no choice. LB did what he needed & what the owners asked him to do. In the end it did not work out, but I do not blame that all on LB.
2.) Word is that the decision on Tin's to never step foot on Pacers ground came directly from the owners - the day after Tin's shooting derby downtown where a window in the Simon's office building was hit!
3.) Isn't JO'B the coach? Does JO'B or LB make the game lineup's. I'n not saying LB is not in on the conversations, but if TJ is counter-productive to JO'B's style, then it is JO'B sitting TJ. LB is merely not interfering.

4.) How did D.walsh deal w/ Starbury again? How is that so different then LB dealt w/ Tin's? Why is LB a turd while DW gets a pass?

5.) Speaking of DW, you could argue that Walsh's "Nice Guy" approach contributed to some of our issues. He was here when we stood by Ron-Ron for 1 yr. too long & we got burned, his loyalty to J.Bender by extending his RFA contract lost us B.Miller, he was the one who extended Croshere & Tinsley in bad deals, DW has taken much of the "credit" for the Dun/Murph trade & the S.Jax signing, & DW's "coddeling" of JO ended up causing us major headache's.
Don't get me wrong, in the late 90's/early 2k, DW had the Pacers as respected of an orgabization as the Colts are today, but he also helped contribute to decisions that helped end that image as well. Now, DW is gone & LB is cleaning up the mess. Some of this mess is his own doing for sure, but DW is not w/o blame.

This...And we all need to remember that this is a business. If we want to continue to see Pacer basketball played in Indiana then we are going to have to deal with some casualties. I am sure T.J will get over it just fine.

vnzla81
01-27-2010, 11:20 PM
For the guys that are saying that Donnie Walsh is nicer than Larry Bird, they have not seen how many players he had seating in the bench since he got there, Marbury, Curry, Richardson and Larry H just to count few players.

jmoney2584
01-28-2010, 01:20 AM
I see his "demotion" as more of a "If you can't play the style we need, you can't play" thing, not any "punishment" against him. Sure, there is likely an element of wanting to force his hand w/ the contract, but IMO I just think they hate his game, & after trying 1.5 yrs to change it, they have given up.



Thats the counterpoint, and a fair one at that

I hope that is truly the case[/QUOTE]

As *****ty as it is, this "hidden motive" behind Ford's benching (the forcing his hand issue) is pretty sly if it works. Sure, underhanded, but if it ends up benefitting us and we see obvious growth in the team at the end of the three year plan, I don't think I can be upset. When that much money is on the line, I don't think GMs can afford to play too nice, especially with the financial situation of the Pacers in todays economy. By any means necessary if our players are out there playing the right way and we are winning (I'm giving the winning thing through next year before I make too harsh a judgement).

We are going to have some nice options if you look between this years trade deadline and next years offseason. From now until next summer is where we as fans need to be patient and give them a chance. It's hard to be optimistic 24/7, but we all know we have some nice up and coming pieces developing in our young guys. We can speculate until we are blue in the face, but we are just now coming into a place where we can make moves. We have had our hands tied for quite awhile now and I feel that we will only TRULY be able to evaluate our direction and things after next year. New coach, money for players, 2 drafts for garnering more talent- big things my friends, big things.

I'm not condoning bad ethics as a rule of thumb, but if it helps return us to our glory days and isn't an excessively occuring habit, I think I can turn the blind eye. I just want to win again, its agonizing, not to mention the upcoming Reggie flick gets me watery eyed for how proud I was of that team and how good it felt. I want that again.

CableKC
01-28-2010, 02:09 AM
So does a buy out get rid of TJ's player option?
I'd expect that we'd have to somehow pay him for his Player Option.

Think about it....if all we had to do was buy him this season only....and not have to worry about paying him next season ( cuz of his Player Option that he hasn't picked up yet )....then don't you think TPTB wouldn't have just bought him out for $8.5 mil already rather then waste more time ( apparently more then the 1.5 years of effort ) trying to trade him?

Where is count55 when we need him?

d_c
01-28-2010, 02:17 AM
So does a buy out get rid of TJ's player option?

That's negotiable (well, every buyout is a negotiation). But why would TJ give away the option if he doesn't have to?

He wouldn't.

NuffSaid
01-28-2010, 10:39 AM
1.) LB was w/i 15 min og trading Tin's to Orl for Reddick/Cook before Hou. tore our our heart & offered Austin. After the trade deadline, we had no choice. LB did what he needed & what the owners asked him to do. In the end it did not work out, but I do not blame that all on LB.
2.) Word is that the decision on Tin's to never step foot on Pacers ground came directly from the owners - the day after Tin's shooting derby downtown where a window in the Simon's office building was hit!
3.) Isn't JO'B the coach? Does JO'B or LB make the game lineup's. I'n not saying LB is not in on the conversations, but if TJ is counter-productive to JO'B's style, then it is JO'B sitting TJ. LB is merely not interfering.

4.) How did D.walsh deal w/ Starbury again? How is that so different then LB dealt w/ Tin's? Why is LB a turd while DW gets a pass?

5.) Speaking of DW, you could argue that Walsh's "Nice Guy" approach contributed to some of our issues. He was here when we stood by Ron-Ron for 1 yr. too long & we got burned, his loyalty to J.Bender by extending his RFA contract lost us B.Miller, he was the one who extended Croshere & Tinsley in bad deals, DW has taken much of the "credit" for the Dun/Murph trade & the S.Jax signing, & DW's "coddeling" of JO ended up causing us major headache's.
Don't get me wrong, in the late 90's/early 2k, DW had the Pacers as respected of an orgabization as the Colts are today, but he also helped contribute to decisions that helped end that image as well. Now, DW is gone & LB is cleaning up the mess. Some of this mess is his own doing for sure, but DW is not w/o blame.
It's like they say, hindsight is 20/20.

I don't blame Bird for everything that has gone wrong with the Pacers over the last 6 yrs, but boy is this team a mess right now and I really don't know what the solution is to fix it.

Looking at things from last year to this year, you'd think this team was on the verge of turning the corning and being just alittle more competitive, but they're not even close to resembling the team they were last year. At least last year's team competed even in the close games they loss. It just seems that injuries and inconsistent lineups have been the major factors keeping this team down. At some point, you have to put the same 5 guys out there and hope they develop chemistry with one another. To that, I think that's what JOB is trying to do. Granted, he's a "small-ball" type of coach; that's his thing. I don't like it, but it is what it is. I think he'd go with Tyler and Foster - who I honestly believe this team misses dearly - if either or both were available to play, but they're not. Still, I question why he doesn't use McRoberts and Soloman Jones more if height is a factor for this team? Neither will probably give us much offense, but they could help with rebounding and shot blocking - two facets of the game the Pacers are struggling with somewhat right now.

But I digress...

PacerGuy's points are well taken. I think we should all take a step back from time-to-time and try to remember what steps were taken and/or reflect on how events played out in the past that got this team to where they are now. If Bird/Morray have a 3-yr plan in the works, I hope it's one damned good one and that they stick to it. Otherwise, this team will fail again next year...and quite possibly the year after that.

90'sNBARocked
01-28-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't understand how this is "classless", and it is not even like the Tinsley situation. Tinsley was told to stay away from the team (for good reason, by the way). TJ is still with the team and still cheering from the bench.

I don't really see the problem here. If anything, making him rot away on the bench for a year and a half is more classless than trying to buy him out.[/QUOTE]

Well I can only offer my opinion. I think to take a player who works hard in the off season and has at least puiblicly been a good soldier and designate him 4th PG , is rediculous. Then to come out and say this publicly followed by O' Brien saying "TJ is a good point guard in this league and can help another team"

Are you serious Obie? Do you really think GM's will buy that crap? Oh hes good but just not good for us thats why he doesnt play.


I dont like how the whole TJ things was handled, I dont like the way the Tinsley situation was handled. We sold low on Jack/Al after buying high

Bird (according to JO) tried to play hardball when looking to trade JO and right now we could have had Bynum instead of Ford.

I , again my opinion, think from a player personal and PR standpoint have handled things poorly

Squirrelz
01-28-2010, 11:57 AM
Of course, here come the Celtics in the hunt... Every time you hear about a quality player possibly getting let go from their current team, here come the Celtics thinking they have bird rights or something.

The NBA is become the MLB. And the Celtics and Lakers are the Yankees and some other rich team. (lol I know not much of baseball)

90'sNBARocked
01-28-2010, 04:36 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=746

TJ Ford in Pacers:
Is there a way for me to get traded? what I need to do?


Joel Brigham:
Keep your fingers crossed and be on your best behavior. There are plenty of teams that could use some depth at the point guard spot: the Lakers, Raptors, HEAT, Wizards, and maybe even Cavs. Those teams are going to under-shoot the Pacers on any potential offers, and they're not going to want to give up any of their hard-earned cap space to bring hi in, but there are possibilities. He certainly deserves to playing somewhere, not rotting at the end of a bad team's bench.

sportfireman
01-28-2010, 05:06 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=746

TJ Ford in Pacers:
Is there a way for me to get traded? what I need to do?


Joel Brigham:
Keep your fingers crossed and be on your best behavior. There are plenty of teams that could use some depth at the point guard spot: the Lakers, Raptors, HEAT, Wizards, and maybe even Cavs. Those teams are going to under-shoot the Pacers on any potential offers, and they're not going to want to give up any of their hard-earned cap space to bring hi in, but there are possibilities. He certainly deserves to playing somewhere, not rotting at the end of a bad team's bench.

totally agree

vnzla81
01-28-2010, 07:32 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=746

TJ Ford in Pacers:
Is there a way for me to get traded? what I need to do?


Joel Brigham:
Keep your fingers crossed and be on your best behavior. There are plenty of teams that could use some depth at the point guard spot: the Lakers, Raptors, HEAT, Wizards, and maybe even Cavs. Those teams are going to under-shoot the Pacers on any potential offers, and they're not going to want to give up any of their hard-earned cap space to bring hi in, but there are possibilities. He certainly deserves to playing somewhere, not rotting at the end of a bad team's bench.

I asked this question, I did not know that he answered.:)

Naptown_Seth
01-28-2010, 09:41 PM
OR....

This is just a name of a player who is not playing that some writer is speculating about, & nothing more.

Besides, I was listening to an interview by Mike Wells on the DD show today (he was very negative & very synical towards the P's!) where Wells said that NBA people told us that our marriage w/ Ford would likely not last long. While no one said he was a bad guy, they said his on-court play turns off his teammates. His tendency to driddle the shot clock down to 18 sec's then pass, forcing teammates to constantly put up rushed shots, or driving & getting caught under the basket w/ no plan causes much frusteration w/ those he plays with.
I see his "demotion" as more of a "If you can't play the style we need, you can't play" thing, not any "punishment" against him. Sure, there is likely an element of wanting to force his hand w/ the contract, but IMO I just think they hate his game, & after trying 1.5 yrs to change it, they have given up.
Completely agree. And it makes sense given the trade. They didn't have him as a "must get", he was just what they took as part of the JO trade and they hoped they could make something out of his game.

Ironically Toronto moved him to make room for Calderon, and now they are tired of his game and have J Jack starting. So apparently J Jack is a better PG than either of them. ;)

Very frustrating to have let him go. This is lingering fallout from the GSW trade. The difference in the contracts you sent out vs brought back cost us Jack staying.