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View Full Version : Old threads about Jim O'Brien - for entertainment only - no point is being made



Unclebuck
01-25-2010, 11:56 AM
I was looking back through some old threads and uncovered the thread where we found out Jim was hired and the first thread (1 month into his first season discussing whether Jim was going to be fired) and a few other threads, I thought were interesting.

Jim hired -

http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31403

(Is it time to fire Jim)

http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=34769&highlight=O%27Brien+named+coach

Some others

http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31423


here is the offical Jim O'Brien poll
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31412


http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31451

OK - here is T-Bird's discussion of the three point shot and O'Brien
http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31460


http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31492

the jaddler
01-25-2010, 12:06 PM
so what are you trying to accomplish by all this?

Unclebuck
01-25-2010, 12:09 PM
so what are you trying to accomplish by all this?

Just entertainment. I clearly labeled the thread, so if you aren't interested in reading any old threads about Jim O'Brien you can easily just skip the thread entirely.

As I mentioned I found some of these old threads and were reading through them today and I thought maybe some others would be interested.

No point is trying to be made.

Putnam
01-25-2010, 12:09 PM
Well, well, well. Jermaniac L'd his FAO at the announcement. Who'da thunk it?

http://pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=555657&postcount=12



But apart from that the interesting things is how many people thought O'Brien would be just like Carlisle.

What ever else you want to say, he hasn't been that!

.

bellisimo
01-25-2010, 12:20 PM
seems like most people still have the same feeling for JOB as they did when they first heard the news...

Unclebuck
01-25-2010, 12:26 PM
Here is a great post by dipperdunk (for those who don't remember or weren't around) dipperdunk is a Sixers fan who used to be a regular in this forum and he was one of the best posters we had whether pacers fan or non-Pacers fan.

He was dead on with this post.


http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31403&page=8

dipperdunk
Hi guys, I just heard about Jim O'Brien.

Here is some info from his year in Philly.

He definitely got the team to overachieve he was fired because he had a different opinion than Billy King about Dalembert & Webber.

Iverson loved playing for him, he gives his stars freedom to freelance as long as they play hard for him. If the Pacers keep JO he will probably have a monster year.

Defensively his likes to front the post but he also likes to have help behind the man fronting the post which makes it difficult for post entry passes. The Sixers frustrated Shaq that season despite having weak defensive frontcourt players.

The downside to his defense by packing the lane the Sixers gave up a ton of three pointers when teams had good ball movement against them. The weak side baseline three is open all night with his defense but it is still a good defense because it forces teams to beat you from outside. The Sixers had trouble executing it consistently because Dalembert had a low basketball IQ and would miss rotations and Webber couldn't move.

Offensively, a lot of "freelancing" and three pointers. He loves to play uptempo and push the ball. If you like basic fundamental offensive basketball you'll probably pull your hair out with O'Brien's system because you'll see some sloppy execution on 3-2 fastbreaks etc.,, He is pretty much the exact opposite of Carlisle in terms of managing the offense.

I think he has a tendency to push the pace too much offensively for road games. I remember when the Sixers were playing at Phoenix it was their 3rd game in 4 nights on a west coast trip. They interviewed O'Brien before the game and he said he wanted to push the ball and play uptempo against them. I was thinking why would you want to play a fast tempo when your team is dead tired on the road against Phoenix? They ended up getting ran out of the gym so he is kind of stubborn in that regard.


He loves good athletes who can pressure the ball and get up the court. Granger should flourish in his system. I think he has a good eye for talent and setting his 8 man rotation. The 1st thing he did in Philly in training camp was send Glenn Robinson home and insert Iguodala into the starting lineup even though he was only a rookie.

Somebody mentioned him not playing youth in Boston. That wasn't a problem at all in Philly, like I said he started Iggy all 82 games as a rookie and he started Korver most of the games and he was only in his 2nd season.

He isn't an elite coach but he is decent. He got a raw deal in Philly. He had the team competitive against a very good Pistons team in the playoffs and Cheeks took over the same starting 5 and the team went in the tank.

McKeyFan
01-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Congrats to DiamondDave for nailing it on the head.

I miss Jermaniac.

Hicks
01-25-2010, 01:19 PM
dipperdunk gave an excellent description.

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2010, 01:36 PM
Congrats to DiamondDave for nailing it on the head.

I miss Jermaniac.
Yes and yes. Those 2 tore this one up dead-on.


I don't get why I thought he was so close to Rick, I was defending Rick because I hated (and still do) his firing, mostly for the reasons Jermaniac was making about the defense. My points were that people were so happy to get rid of Rick because he ran too much iso (in the post especially) and was all about the defense (which was struggling post GSW)

JOB was talking big defense which he's now at an epic fail level with, and at the time was saying how he was going to use JO. Finally he had a big he could work off of. So it SOUNDED like a sloppier version of more of the same.


Since then he's failed to do this with JO and is being pulled kicking and screaming to do it with Roy.

His offense is just disgusting.

PaceBalls
01-25-2010, 01:45 PM
I sure was optimistic at Jim's hiring, and I was positive Dick Harter was going to turn our defense around... my team spirit has been thoroughly crushed since then and I am now a jaded cynic. Thanks alot Jim :mad:

the jaddler
01-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Just entertainment. I clearly labeled the thread, so if you aren't interested in reading any old threads about Jim O'Brien you can easily just skip the thread entirely.

As I mentioned I found some of these old threads and were reading through them today and I thought maybe some others would be interested.

No point is trying to be made.

my bad unclebuck....i didnt read the whole title....my add got the best of me...

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Dipperdunk Dead on?? Not always, I bolded the stuff of note.

They didn't overachieve, guys have given crap defensive effort and remained in the game with freedom to shoot at will, JO did not have a monster year, the Pacers aren't giving up tons of threes and in fact are forcing teams to shoot more long jumpers (which is a good thing actually), instead of giving up threes we've seen tons of lane violations with guys caught trying to help ball side more than just doubling the post.

He has not favored athletes who can get up the floor, nor has he sent guys packing in favor of rookies. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McRoberts vs Murphy couldn't fall into this category, where Josh can get back on transition defense much better, is quicker completely and has hops to block shots. No matter what you think of Josh's defense you can't argue that he's worse than Troy one on one.

Better yet, let's talk about his treatment of Brandon Rush which borders on insulting in light of some "he love Iggy" idea where the kid gets to play because he can D up and hustle up and down the court.

He has struggled to accept playing the youth or go for options that would fall closer to rebuild and teach vs limp into playoffs.

Of course he's stubborn all right, and not just in regards to up tempo.


Things I see correct - Granger flourished and I did pull my hair out watching his "offense" in action.

And the AI love we understand now because his system appears to focus mostly on letting the PG just do whatever he wants, especially if it involves shooting the ball.

Here is a great post by dipperdunk (for those who don't remember or weren't around) dipperdunk is a Sixers fan who used to be a regular in this forum and he was one of the best posters we had whether pacers fan or non-Pacers fan.

He was dead on with this post.


http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31403&page=8

dipperdunk
Hi guys, I just heard about Jim O'Brien.

Here is some info from his year in Philly.

He definitely got the team to overachieve he was fired because he had a different opinion than Billy King about Dalembert & Webber.

Iverson loved playing for him, he gives his stars freedom to freelance as long as they play hard for him. If the Pacers keep JO he will probably have a monster year.

Defensively his likes to front the post but he also likes to have help behind the man fronting the post which makes it difficult for post entry passes. The Sixers frustrated Shaq that season despite having weak defensive frontcourt players.

The downside to his defense by packing the lane the Sixers gave up a ton of three pointers when teams had good ball movement against them. The weak side baseline three is open all night with his defense but it is still a good defense because it forces teams to beat you from outside. The Sixers had trouble executing it consistently because Dalembert had a low basketball IQ and would miss rotations and Webber couldn't move.

Offensively, a lot of "freelancing" and three pointers. He loves to play uptempo and push the ball. If you like basic fundamental offensive basketball you'll probably pull your hair out with O'Brien's system because you'll see some sloppy execution on 3-2 fastbreaks etc.,, He is pretty much the exact opposite of Carlisle in terms of managing the offense.

I think he has a tendency to push the pace too much offensively for road games. I remember when the Sixers were playing at Phoenix it was their 3rd game in 4 nights on a west coast trip. They interviewed O'Brien before the game and he said he wanted to push the ball and play uptempo against them. I was thinking why would you want to play a fast tempo when your team is dead tired on the road against Phoenix? They ended up getting ran out of the gym so he is kind of stubborn in that regard.


He loves good athletes who can pressure the ball and get up the court. Granger should flourish in his system. I think he has a good eye for talent and setting his 8 man rotation. The 1st thing he did in Philly in training camp was send Glenn Robinson home and insert Iguodala into the starting lineup even though he was only a rookie.

Somebody mentioned him not playing youth in Boston. That wasn't a problem at all in Philly, like I said he started Iggy all 82 games as a rookie and he started Korver most of the games and he was only in his 2nd season.

He isn't an elite coach but he is decent. He got a raw deal in Philly. He had the team competitive against a very good Pistons team in the playoffs and Cheeks took over the same starting 5 and the team went in the tank.

Since86
01-25-2010, 03:07 PM
Wow, totally forgot that UB was already defending JOb 5mins into the hire. A lot hasn't changed. Everyone was shocked and disgusted that we were gonna watch a crappy offense.

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2010, 03:09 PM
Jerm is just nuts in that thread, on fire...

I'm sure Danny will enjoy Obie, no driving to the bucket. Just launch them up Danny.
Or are we going to defend JOB here and say that 10 3PA in a game isn't that much.

And then he comes back with

What if we trade JO and have no stars


I'm going to have to STFU the next time Diamond says something instead of debating him after this which I still can't get over (and people are arguing with him even)

As Celtic coach he was critized for:
1. Playing favorites letting Walker and Pierce do as they pleased but coming down hard on the others.

2. Not playing young players - he was behind trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for vets Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers

His offense was chuck up 3's and isolate his stars Walker and Pierce.

And Buck for the win

He doesn't try to plug players into his offensive system, he builds the offensive system around his players. ------- you all should like that right?
Nailed it

Rush, Roy, Price, Jack, Jeff, McBob, Solo, DJones...none of these guys or others has ever been asked to take more long jumpers than they normally would, we've never had complaints about how Roy can't run like they need him to, we've never seen PGs asked to defend much bigger SGs they normally wouldn't.....

From day 1 it's been all about posting Roy and letting Rush fill in on offense when it fit (but not always), about PGs not just shooting low PCT threes, etc

Danny 3P/FG ratio with Rick = 19%, 33%
with JOB = 35%, 35%, 44%

Iggy's 3P/FG ratio = 31%
The next 4 years = 23%, 16%, 24%, 23%

Iggy's eFG% went UP the year after JOB left and his OffRat and OffWinShares did as well.

My point is that he does impact the style of the player more than catering to them. Iggy was a more effective offensive player when not encouraged to chuck as much, and while Danny was showing a knack for the 3 that has turned into a monster at this point.

Putnam
01-25-2010, 03:19 PM
:thisisnotfun:

LoneGranger33
01-25-2010, 03:24 PM
We've been talking about firing this guy since November of 2007?

Trader Joe
01-25-2010, 04:47 PM
I laughed at a lot of the stuff in that very first thread, especially whenever someone speculated that Obie would play a slow pace that focused on defense, I wonder if anyone even watched him in Boston.

Hoop
01-25-2010, 08:57 PM
Reading those old threads I was hoping I didn't post anything to embarrassing. :D

My only comment on the JOB hiring back then, was he was probably better than most of the guys named as possibilities and at least it wasn't Mark Jackson. I still want no part of Jackson.

I have wanted JOB gone since his first couple of months here though.


Visionary quotes by: diamonddave00


To me the hiring of Jim O'Brien is a terrible move.

As Celtic coach he was critized for:
1. Playing favorites letting Walker and Pierce do as they pleased but coming down hard on the others.

2. Not playing young players - he was behind trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for vets Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers

His offense was chuck up 3's and isolate his stars Walker and Pierce.

To me this seems to point to Bird thinking this team is a playoff team and just needs a new coach. In many ways he's a slightly diff version of Carlisle. Unless O'Brien has changed and will play youth seems like a bad fit for a re-building team.

Unclebuck
01-26-2010, 09:08 AM
ChicagoJ, I think you have exceeded the per thread limit for number of "Thanks"

McKeyFan
01-26-2010, 09:59 AM
I was trying to thank everyone in that first ever JOB thread, but the technology didn't allow it.

Brad8888
01-26-2010, 10:41 AM
Jerm is just nuts in that thread, on fire...

Or are we going to defend JOB here and say that 10 3PA in a game isn't that much.

And then he comes back with



I'm going to have to STFU the next time Diamond says something instead of debating him after this which I still can't get over (and people are arguing with him even)


And Buck for the win

Nailed it

Rush, Roy, Price, Jack, Jeff, McBob, Solo, DJones...none of these guys or others has ever been asked to take more long jumpers than they normally would, we've never had complaints about how Roy can't run like they need him to, we've never seen PGs asked to defend much bigger SGs they normally wouldn't.....

From day 1 it's been all about posting Roy and letting Rush fill in on offense when it fit (but not always), about PGs not just shooting low PCT threes, etc

Danny 3P/FG ratio with Rick = 19%, 33%
with JOB = 35%, 35%, 44%

Iggy's 3P/FG ratio = 31%
The next 4 years = 23%, 16%, 24%, 23%

Iggy's eFG% went UP the year after JOB left and his OffRat and OffWinShares did as well.

My point is that he does impact the style of the player more than catering to them. Iggy was a more effective offensive player when not encouraged to chuck as much, and while Danny was showing a knack for the 3 that has turned into a monster at this point.

Excellent analysis throughout all of your posts in this entire thread.

Also, excellent minimalist usage of the color green. I think you used extreme restraint and should be recognized for that with a screen full of dancing fruit, but in minimalist style it will be represented as the following:




:dance:

ksuttonjr76
01-26-2010, 05:11 PM
Wow...JOB wasn't really that popular since day one.

Naptown_Seth
01-26-2010, 05:33 PM
Brad, I think my general attitude would require nearly constant green font if I was going to be fair about it. :D


I think I'm going to call a truce on Buck for now, at least on the JOB fights (debate just doesn't do it justice). I like Buck and honestly I'm stunned by his stance on this one, but then I've been the only guy fighting a fight when abjry and I stood alone defending Jackson.

So he likes him and it's just going to be that way. The debate is leaving nothing but scorched earth anyway and what good does that do.

But he still owes Jerm about a million dollars IIRC. ;)

JohnnyBGoode
01-26-2010, 05:51 PM
Brad, I think my general attitude would require nearly constant green font if I was going to be fair about it. :D


I think I'm going to call a truce on Buck for now, at least on the JOB fights (debate just doesn't do it justice). I like Buck and honestly I'm stunned by his stance on this one, but then I've been the only guy fighting a fight when abjry and I stood alone defending Jackson.

So he likes him and it's just going to be that way. The debate is leaving nothing but scorched earth anyway and what good does that do.

But he still owes Jerm about a million dollars IIRC. ;)

Hmm, you are attacking UB for somewhat defending O'Brien and you admit to defending Jackson. IMO, UB wins hands down on that debate.

BTW, why do seem to shout in your posts. Shouting doesn't make your opinion the correct opinion. Easeing up on the I am right and you are wrong tone would help your arguements immensly, not that I think they are correct.

McKeyFan
01-26-2010, 09:52 PM
Easeing up on the I am right and you are wrong tone would help your arguements immensly, not that I think they are correct.

So, ease up to "I am correct, you are incorrect" ?



:potkettle:

Brad8888
01-27-2010, 12:11 AM
Brad, I think my general attitude would require nearly constant green font if I was going to be fair about it. :D


I think I'm going to call a truce on Buck for now, at least on the JOB fights (debate just doesn't do it justice). I like Buck and honestly I'm stunned by his stance on this one, but then I've been the only guy fighting a fight when abjry and I stood alone defending Jackson.

So he likes him and it's just going to be that way. The debate is leaving nothing but scorched earth anyway and what good does that do.

But he still owes Jerm about a million dollars IIRC. ;)

Consistency in opinion is a trait to be admired even amongst stronger debaters, especially if things remain civil or, if they stray somewhat, return quickly to civility even when the various sides hold staunchly to their beliefs. That would not be possible if there were not some validity to both sides of the best debates amongst knowledgeable posters. That is one of the things that compelled me to join here after lurking for at least a couple of years, possibly longer.