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View Full Version : Post-Game #44 - Pacers Now 4-24 When Trailing to Begin the 4th



LoneGranger33
01-23-2010, 09:19 PM
Murphy will probably receive the bulk of the blame for this one because 1) Elton Brand manhandled him and 2) he's Troy Murphy, but he didn't throw 21 TURNOVERS! Danny had seven alone, and most were unforced - well, maybe not unforced but less steals than misdribbles.

Brandon had another efficient offensive game (save for two late missed bombs), but nothing past the first half.

A.J. Price showed some range again tonight, which was reassuring because of several recent shooting duds.

Dun's shooting was poor, but he got good looks.

The disappointment for me was Roy's inability to take advantage of Sammy Dalembert. Dalembert is a decent shot-blocker, no doubt about it, but he's also wirey-thin and Roy's first post-up was too much. He just couldn't repeat, and when he did, he couldn't finish.

vnzla81
01-23-2010, 09:33 PM
that top five pick is getting closer and closer by the day.

pwee31
01-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Pacers just seemed in too much of a hurry. Side effect for the op and down style

imawhat
01-23-2010, 09:34 PM
This season's team has the worst shot selection I've ever seen from the Pacers. There are lots of reasons we lost this game, but I keep looking back to the 10-15 terrible shots.

This has no discipline; hasn't all season.

diamonddave00
01-23-2010, 09:47 PM
You can blame Murphy if you want but for the game his +/- which a lot on here seem to put stock in was + 1 so the Pacers actually won the game portion he played. Hibbert on the other hand was a - 15 while he was on the court.

Hoop
01-23-2010, 09:56 PM
Awesome display of chuck and duck basketball, it was most impressive live.

Holy crap, there were a lot of Jets fans at the game.

BlueNGold
01-23-2010, 10:07 PM
You can blame Murphy if you want but for the game his +/- which a lot on here seem to put stock in was + 1 so the Pacers actually won the game portion he played. Hibbert on the other hand was a - 15 while he was on the court.

That should help his team worst plus-minus. I suppose TJ and Solo are worse per minute...but they are planted on the bench. TJ may never play another minute as a Pacer.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22009&split=9&team=Pacers
Source: NBA.com

QuickRelease
01-23-2010, 11:30 PM
Does AJ having zero assists bother anyone? Or should we chalk that up to him being a combo guard, and just be satisfied with his scoring.

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2010, 11:30 PM
Troy actually came in at a -3, not a +1. Dun led the way with a +7.

And plenty of +/- advocates will tell you that a one game sample is too small. What you need is enough playing time that the various combos play together so that good players have a chance to shake off being drug down by bad players. Plus you want to mix up matchups, bench vs starter defense, etc.


But having said that, there are usually some truths to even the one game version.

Roy didn't have a good game. The only difference is that it's reasonable to expect up and down games from a developing big on rookie scale.

The 2nd highest paid player shouldn't be working as a door man on the defensive end.


They tried to post Roy a little, but quickly got away from it and really didn't work any other offense off of him either. Roy was the center when they went small to end the first half. AI scored over Head, then Brand put up 2 buckets. Went from a tie to 7 down without Roy having much say in the matter.

Then to start the 3rd you had Troy at PF. Brand makes the first SEVEN points for Philly going 3-3 plus a FT. This is in 90 seconds. Even as a team a 7pts/1.5min scoring rate translates to 56 points in a QUARTER.

In the 4th Troy benefited greatly from AJ Price being red hot, not to mention several good plays by Rush and Granger.



Troy wasn't the only problem in the least. Roy did have a bad game, though it wasn't 100% simply on him. They got killed defending the glass and several of those were right at Troy (meaning he was beating directly for the rebound). And they turned it over all over the place, primarily Granger - thus Danny having the worst +/- of the night.

cdash
01-23-2010, 11:32 PM
Does AJ having zero assists bother anyone? Or should we chalk that up to him being a combo guard, and just be satisfied with his scoring.

I suspect the answers will go something like:

"He would have had 6 or 7 assists if the guys he passed it to would have made a shot."

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2010, 11:34 PM
Does AJ having zero assists bother anyone? Or should we chalk that up to him being a combo guard, and just be satisfied with his scoring.
It's a bit of a problem because it seems to be a trend with all the guards and thus perhaps a directive.

However I notice this a lot too, AJ will drive and NO ONE will come to the created space for a dump and easy bucket. AJ has been burned several times in the last few games when he burns someone baseline, goes all the way to the rim only to find a big rotated down onto him as part of a full on double team, and has no one cutting to the rim for a dish n dunk.

Created space being wasted. I think he'd love to make that great pass in that spot, but if no one will make themselves available then there isn't much he can do.




And yes, setting a guy up at the rim only to watch him miss the bunny does impact a good passing night in the stat box.

Sookie
01-23-2010, 11:44 PM
Does AJ having zero assists bother anyone? Or should we chalk that up to him being a combo guard, and just be satisfied with his scoring.

Well, in some ways it is bothersome. Because that's not a good stat for a point guard.

But at the same time, he was the only one making shots in the fourth quarter, and I think being bothered by anything a rookie does, when said rookie pulled the team back into the game, might be a little..silly.

Assists, more than any stat really does depend on another player. In europe, they have a stat for "attempted assists" which I'd like to know with A.J. If it's up around 10..and no one made anything, than that's not as "bothersome" as if it's around 5. I didn't think he was particularly good with the playmaking tonight though, but I do think..and it's typical..the offense runs much better with him in. Whether he's being a dominant play maker or not.

Anyway, was more bothered by the recent increase in turnovers.

BlueNGold
01-23-2010, 11:51 PM
I don't think he's encapable of racking up assists. In any event, I'm not bothered at all. The fact there's an argument that a second round pick is close to being as good as Earl Watson and may even be the best PG on this team, is a near miracle. But it may tell us more about the state of our PG position.

Probably equal parts...

Trophy
01-24-2010, 01:16 AM
Was Jerry Baker the PA? I just finished watching it since I missed it.

Peck
01-24-2010, 02:00 AM
Was Jerry Baker the PA? I just finished watching it since I missed it.

Michael Grady

CableKC
01-24-2010, 02:31 AM
I liked that AJ saw a good # of minutes....despite the ZERO assists....he did hit several 3pt shots and was on the floor to help drag the Team into within striking distance of the Sixers.

Other then that....I don't really care that we lost....I'm just expecting it now.

thelostpacer
01-24-2010, 04:10 AM
aj did what he need to do but other players not so much we lost falling out playoffs is now more likey 100% sure no playoffs with this team just go for the draft!

able
01-24-2010, 04:31 AM
Troy Murphy, after 9 minutes in the 1st : 7 Pts 10 Reb
(after 29.19 min fo the game 11 pts 12 reb)

Peck
01-24-2010, 04:39 AM
Troy Murphy, after 9 minutes in the 1st : 7 Pts 10 Reb
(after 29.19 min fo the game 11 pts 12 reb)

How many rebounds did Troy have at halftime?

able
01-24-2010, 07:17 AM
well tbh i dont even want to look it up :P he had 10 before the 1st qaurter was ended, and he added 2 over the next 19 minutes of playing time spread over 3 quarters, truly amazing (if it wasn't a constantly repeating factor)

Jonathan
01-24-2010, 07:50 AM
T Young is a player that always seems to play well against the Pacers.

Putnam
01-24-2010, 08:28 AM
Awesome display of chuck and duck basketball, it was most impressive live.


This season is a not a total waste. The basketball often isn't enjoyable, but we're certainly making major strides in creative phrasology.

To go with Hoop's "Chuck and Duck" we've also got "Spray and Pray" and "Heave and Hope." Any others?

Putnam
01-24-2010, 08:33 AM
Troy Murphy, after 9 minutes in the 1st : 7 Pts 10 Reb


How many rebounds did Troy have at halftime?


well . . . he added 2 over the next 19 minutes of playing time spread over 3 quarters, truly amazing


This happens pretty often doesn't it? (I think that is Abel's point.) Troy's scoring also drops off after the opening minutes, either because he tires or the defense adjusts to him. But he's still stretching the floor!

Brad8888
01-24-2010, 11:12 AM
This happens pretty often doesn't it? (I think that is Abel's point.) Troy's scoring also drops off after the opening minutes, either because he tires or the defense adjusts to him. But he's still stretching the floor!

So ONLY play Troy for the last 6 minutes of the 3rd, rest him for the first 3 minutes of the 4th, and have him finish the game. Forget about any time prior to that so that he can, with fresh legs, help close out games as a threat as opposed to being a liability. He generally is effective for about 15 or so minutes. Let him have those minutes at the time they are most useful since he will be on the floor during those times regardless of the fact that he has lost his legs for any purpose whether it be threes or rebounding.

MagicRat
01-24-2010, 11:43 AM
Here's the pre-game video they're showing this season.....
<object height="340" width="560">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UjopwVP4s2U&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="340" width="560"></object>

PaceBalls
01-24-2010, 11:55 AM
That pre game vid was great man.

Brad8888
01-24-2010, 12:27 PM
The more things don't EVER change, the more they stay the same.

Another game with limited Danny threes. Good.

The rest, yes, AJ hit some threes, and Brandon did well until the Sixers adjusted. And, at least Roy got 24 minutes, though it was difficult to remember many of them. Hopefully he learned a little more while he had a chance. Murphy had a good first quarter.

Whee...

During the post game O'B interview, it was unbelievable to listen to O'B complaining (while saying multiple times that he wasn't) about the huge number of games the Pacers have had over the last 5 weeks, with 10 (?) back to backs and 3 instances of 4 games in 5 nights, and his players are exhausted. All true, obviously. He says his players are exhausted, and played that way, which is why they lost, and is acting like this is the first time he has considered that to be a possibility or a factor. Half of his interview was about this...

Well, Jim, no ****.

It is beyond comprehension that he would say that his players are exhausted NOW, while it has been obvious for some time that the low shooting percentages that we have been seeing fairly regularly for a long time, has at least had something to do with players not having lift from their legs in their shots, especially late in games, but not always, and that fatigue also has contributed to further weakening our porous "defense" as well.

What is unbelievable to me is this. He could have mitigated this very thing by utilizing his available roster and changing his game strategy. He easily could have done something utterly foreign to him when he looked ahead at the schedule 6 or 7 weeks ago when the schedule was lighter and 1) gone deeper into his bench and 2) put into place an offense that is more centered on getting to the rim and getting fouled to increase scoring efficiency through shooting more FTs to offset the possibility of jumpers not falling due to fatigue and utilized it through this heavy part of the schedule. That is part of the "planning for the game" aspect of coaching that I thought O'B is supposed to be so strong in, isn't it? Well, how in the world can that be if he simply bulls ahead and treats the fatigue factor by simply reducing practices somewhat (which he also blamed for poor team performance -- the fact that during the last 5 weeks that the Pacers have only had 7 full speed practices, besides those he has conducted earlier on game days at lesser intensity).

Should he do this now? Why in the world would he? That would be like shutting the barn door after you willfully release all of your livestock, making sure that they ALL get out of the barn by frantically waving your arms at them and saying some version of "shoo" or "git" until they all run out. Now, I would guess he will simply leave the barn door open and hope some of the livestock return at feeding time, though I doubt a very high percentage do with the poor quality of feed he would use.

I commented to another random fan I had never met while going out to the concourse after the game (yes, I was there, this time in 204) that we might be OK if Jim just had the same ability regarding finding his way to games as he does for coaching the game of basketball. The fan quickly burst out laughing and said "That's so true. That would be our only hope."

Also, my bad regarding TJ. TJ won't be coming barring an injury to Watson or Price, because that would mean going deeper into the bench, and O'B definitely will not do that. Iverson has made a career of playing much like TJ tries to, with the exception that he has been a much better defender and can shoot the three. I am quite sure that O'B still longs for the days he had AI, which is why he attempts to mold his pg's in Iverson's image (it was amazing to watch Iverson drive into heavy traffic, jump and spin wildly looking for someone to bail him out, and either turn the ball over or pass to teammates in such a way that it impeded the Sixers' offensive flow, or take off balance contested shots even in the face of our weak defense while still managing to not get fouled, all exactly like TJ, and Tinsley before him). Tinsley failed, on and off the court and was banished from both the team and its facilities. TJ has failed the same way as Tinsley, but just on the court, so he is still required to attend games and can use the facilities, but otherwise is "banished". TJ must truly be an atrocity for J O'Stubborn to give up on the player most physically suited to implement the second most important portion of his strategy, quick dribble penetration prior to the defense being set. Or, he sits because he hasn't had an opportunity with so few practices to show O'B that he can hit his 3's now, who really knows????

sportfireman
01-24-2010, 01:35 PM
T Young is a player that always seems to play well against the Pacers.

Lately everyone seems to play well against us and our REVAMPED DEFENSE.:hmm:

McKeyFan
01-24-2010, 11:36 PM
Roy usually gets benched with 7 to 4 minutes left in the first quarter. In this game, he didn't come out until halfway through the second quarter. Weird.

Anybody have an idea why such a drastic change?

vnzla81
01-24-2010, 11:49 PM
Roy usually gets benched with 7 to 4 minutes left in the first quarter. In this game, he didn't come out until halfway through the second quarter. Weird.

Anybody have an idea why such a drastic change?

JOB was thinking about another excuse

PacerPride33
01-25-2010, 12:52 AM
Just another reason to tank the season to try and get John Wall

PacerPride33
01-25-2010, 12:54 AM
tank the season!!!!!!!!!!

Squirrelz
01-25-2010, 01:51 AM
I'm just happy about the fact that there's only two teams in the league with less wins than us.

Top 3 could be a possibility. And that's a pretty decent 15% shot at the number 1 pick if I'm not mistaken.

Hicks
01-25-2010, 02:12 AM
I'm telling you, this team has a run or two in them to destroy this top-5 talk. When the other teams have given up, we will be there to step on their necks and think we're better than we currently are (or at least that's what will probably be said by team representatives publicly).

Squirrelz
01-25-2010, 02:14 AM
I'm telling you, this team has a run or two in them to destroy this top-5 talk. When the other teams have given up, we will be there to step on their necks and think we're better than we currently are (or at least that's what will probably be said by team representatives publicly).
Lol ruined my optimism... Unfortunately you're right. 6-10 is probably where we'll end up.