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View Full Version : Bruno/Rush might be turning the corner



vnzla81
01-23-2010, 01:43 PM
http://my.nba.com/cms/107855/rush_might_be_turning_the_corner

Talented guard has been team's top 3-point shooter in recent weeks

It's dangerous to jump to conclusions, when it comes to Brandon Rush.

The most analyzed, scrutinized and criticized member of the Pacers, he also is among the most prized because of his remarkable physical gifts.

For much of this season, his mysterious inability to translate talent into production has been among the chief frustrations for all involved with the team – including Rush.

Lately, however, there are signs the corner is being turned.

Rush's performance in the Pacers' 105-93 victory at Detroit Friday night was his best of the season. He shot well at important times, including consecutive 3-pointers that gave the Pacers an 18-point lead in the first half, and another that killed the Pistons' rally when they had cut the gap to four.

In addition to his season-high 19 points, he was his usual active self defensively. Though Richard Hamilton scored 27 points, he also committed seven turnovers, evidence of just how hard he had to work for every opportunity.

"He is starting to become very aggressive," said Coach Jim O'Brien, "and I am very pleased with how he is playing."

But this wasn't just one game. Rush has been coming on, albeit beneath the radar, for a few weeks. He's been the team's most effective and consistent 3-point shooter for the past 19 games, making 31-of-66 (47 percent). In the last five games, he has averaged 12.4 points and 4.2 rebounds and shot 66 percent from the field and 53 percent from the 3-point line.

Has the switch been flipped? If so, will it stay on?

That remains to be seen. But at least for the time being, enjoy the light.

O'Brien acknowledges Ford's available

It hasn't exactly been a secret but neither had T.J. Ford's availability on the trade market been publicly acknowledged until O'Brien said as much to Jeff Rabjohns of The Indianapolis Star while the team was in Auburn Hills, Mich.

O'Brien told Rabjohns "I don't think there's any doubt (a trade is possible this season). He's a quality point guard. He could really help another franchise. It's not my decision to say what Larry (Bird) decides, but certainly, I think we'd be open-minded."

Removed from the rotation 12 games ago after starting 25 of the first 31, Ford is averaging 9.9 points, 3.6 assists and 3.4 rebounds.

D-BONE
01-23-2010, 01:49 PM
Hope he's turning the corner, but there's obviously a long way to go to show he can do it consistently. You can't help but love the thought of what he could be if he does develop it though.

PaceBalls
01-23-2010, 01:59 PM
Even if he isn't hitting his shots, he is still valuable on the floor. Offense is just half the game. Of course, if he isn't hitting his shots our coach considers him worthles. I am happy to read that Jim quote though.

"He is starting to become very aggressive," said Coach Jim O'Brien, "and I am very pleased with how he is playing."

That is a nice change.

I think he has played some of the best ball of his career lately. Very efficient on offense, and very disruptive on D.

gummy
01-23-2010, 02:16 PM
"He is starting to become very aggressive," said Coach Jim O'Brien, "and I am very pleased with how he is playing."

That is a nice change.



I was thinking along the same lines - "Holy crap, I do believe JOB just praised Rush in public!" And not in a backhanded compliment kind of way either. It is a nice change.

I'm still annoyed because Rush was already aggressive on the defensive end but whatever, I'll take what I can get from the Department of Obie Speak. :cool:

BobbyMac
01-23-2010, 02:30 PM
I'm glad to see Brandon starting to play well. When he is passive on the offensive end he is passive on defense as well. When he is aggressive, he is a good player.

MyFavMartin
01-23-2010, 02:44 PM
Heard from mark and slick last night that he was looking aggressive at driving the ball. That's good news. Let's up it becomes a habit.

gummy
01-23-2010, 03:11 PM
When he is passive on the offensive end he is passive on defense as well.

I believe you've said this before but I continue to not see much proof of it on the court. :hmm:

Brandon has had numerous good defensive outings without shooting the ball much at all or shooting it badly (not that shooting is all there it to offense - Rush has other offensive skills, such as court awareness/post entry passes/spacing that he does well consistently, but I digress). Those consistently good defensive outings have been witnessed/described/pointed out by multiple members of this board, by Bruno in his chats and post-game writeups, by the Pacers' broadcasters, even in a roundabout way by JOB recently. I'm really puzzled by this assertion, Bobby.

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2010, 03:11 PM
Passive on defense? Since when?

The ONLY thing he does "wrong" is not always chuck away. People love him when he goes 6-11 and hate him if he goes 1-4. Same defense, similar boards and team play, but magically all those other things, the other 80% of the game, all go away if he only goes 1-4.

This kind of shortsightedness is how some people lose basketball games, often while scoring 125 points themselves.


Dear JOB, you are an idiot.*

Signed,

The stat that shows Brandon taking LESS SHOTS NOW than 2 months ago, including 1 less 3PA per game.

Cosigned,

The stat that shows Brandon taking 50% LESS FTAs NOW than 2 month ago, the stat that shows him getting 1 less rebound per game than 2 months ago, and the stat showing him getting about .25 less steals per game than 2 months ago


But yes, other than that he is "more aggressive" if those are foreign words that translate into "making a better PCT of his shots" while not really doing anything else better or at a higher rate


But this wasn't just one game. Rush has been coming on, albeit beneath the radar, for a few weeks. Date of Wells article? FIVE DAYS AGO
FIVE. This was what was being said 5-6 days ago...


"I . . . don't . . . know," O'Brien slowly said. "I . . . don't . . . know. We tried everything. You just hope that he's going to have a good game."

Rush went scoreless against Toronto and Phoenix early last week. Then he scored 15 points on 5-of-5 shooting against New Jersey on Friday and went 3-of-6 from the field in Saturday's loss to New Orleans.

Was Rush making the first shot against the Nets an indicator that he would have a good game?

"I'd like for the first shot to go in, then we'd go from there," O'Brien said. "I don't know."

Rush "wanders through life and you get what you get" from him, according to O'Brien.This is why I'm having this meltdown. Some of you guys think we are impatient with JOB?!?! Please. This is the pilot we have...

"Ladies and gentleman, we're headed for a mountain, we are all going to die in a big crash."
(10 seconds later)
"Welcome to LAX, we hope you enjoyed your flight. We know you don't have a choice in coaches and we appreciate you letting us shove this crap down your throat."





* enough is enough, this kind of flawed BS that sounds good on the surface but has no factual support is insulting, but if someone can show how Rush is in fact more aggressive now I'll be happy to apologize (hint, don't use the stats I posted above, they won't help)

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Bold prediction - Rush will hit another shooting slump and will be benched until he can learn to be aggressive and stop wandering through life. People will ask "why can't he figure it out" even after he gets 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 assists and great all around team play with hustle.

People say they know he is our new McKey, but they don't react like they understand what this really means.


Meanwhile Dunleavy goes on a massive slump in all areas of play and is apparently right on track, sound and a vital part of the team.

PacerDude
01-23-2010, 03:51 PM
Turning the corner ................ haven't we been here before ?? A few times ?? 4 lefts gets one back to the original starting point. Just like the Brickyard.

Just a thought.

pacergod2
01-23-2010, 05:28 PM
So what JOB is saying is that Brandon will be benched next game with a DNP - CD?

jhondog28
01-23-2010, 05:48 PM
I would like to show the 1st round draft from 2008:


1 1 Rose, Derrick
1 2 Beasley, Michael
1 3 Mayo, O. J.
1 4 Westbrook, Russell
1 5 Love, Kevin
1 6 Gallinari, Danilo
1 7 Gordon, Eric
1 8 Alexander, Joe
1 9 Augustin, D. J.
1 10 Lopez, Brook
1 11 Bayless, Jerryd
1 12 Thompson, Jason
1 13 Rush, Brandon
1 14 Randolph, Anthony
1 15 Lopez, Robin
1 16 Speights, Marreese
1 17 Hibbert, Roy
1 18 McGee, JaVale
1 19 Hickson, J. J.
1 20 Ajinça, Alexis
1 21 Anderson, Ryan
1 22 Lee, Courtney
1 23 Koufos, Kosta
1 24 Ibaka, Serge
1 25 Batum, Nicolas
1 26 Hill, George
1 27 Arthur, Darrell
1 28 Greene, Donté
1 29 White, D. J.
1 30 Giddens, J. R.

If you look at the first round of this draft this was a very week draft. I would say the Pacers drafted two of the top 8 players in the draft as far as potential is concerned.

1. Rose
2. B Lopez
3. Gallinari
4. Mayo
5. Gordon
6. Hibbert
7. Hickson
8. Rush

So it is hard for me to be sad that we got Rush. I think we drafted better than our given draft postion that year. I think that is why we all should be happy that we got Rush and Hibbert where we did. I think Rush can do things very well for us in the future. He just may need time.

Cactus Jax
01-23-2010, 07:24 PM
I would like to show the 1st round draft from 2008:


1 1 Rose, Derrick
1 2 Beasley, Michael
1 3 Mayo, O. J.
1 4 Westbrook, Russell
1 5 Love, Kevin
1 6 Gallinari, Danilo
1 7 Gordon, Eric
1 8 Alexander, Joe
1 9 Augustin, D. J.
1 10 Lopez, Brook
1 11 Bayless, Jerryd
1 12 Thompson, Jason
1 13 Rush, Brandon
1 14 Randolph, Anthony
1 15 Lopez, Robin
1 16 Speights, Marreese
1 17 Hibbert, Roy
1 18 McGee, JaVale
1 19 Hickson, J. J.
1 20 Ajinça, Alexis
1 21 Anderson, Ryan
1 22 Lee, Courtney
1 23 Koufos, Kosta
1 24 Ibaka, Serge
1 25 Batum, Nicolas
1 26 Hill, George
1 27 Arthur, Darrell
1 28 Greene, Donté
1 29 White, D. J.
1 30 Giddens, J. R.

If you look at the first round of this draft this was a very week draft. I would say the Pacers drafted two of the top 8 players in the draft as far as potential is concerned.

1. Rose
2. B Lopez
3. Gallinari
4. Mayo
5. Gordon
6. Hibbert
7. Hickson
8. Rush

So it is hard for me to be sad that we got Rush. I think we drafted better than our given draft postion that year. I think that is why we all should be happy that we got Rush and Hibbert where we did. I think Rush can do things very well for us in the future. He just may need time.

That's a crime that you dont have Kevin Love in the top few, yeah hes been injured but hes a double double machine when he plays.

BobbyMac
01-23-2010, 08:28 PM
I believe you've said this before but I continue to not see much proof of it on the court. :hmm:

Brandon has had numerous good defensive outings without shooting the ball much at all or shooting it badly (not that shooting is all there it to offense - Rush has other offensive skills, such as court awareness/post entry passes/spacing that he does well consistently, but I digress). Those consistently good defensive outings have been witnessed/described/pointed out by multiple members of this board, by Bruno in his chats and post-game writeups, by the Pacers' broadcasters, even in a roundabout way by JOB recently. I'm really puzzled by this assertion, Bobby.

Sorry to puzzle you, I watch all the games on TV and follow the team and have done that since 1967. I feel that Brandon does, many times, get very passive on the floor, not just on offense. There are times where he does look good on defense without scoring, not most of the time. There are many times on this, and other, forums that I wonder what games others are watching. I'm sure you feel the same way about me.

speakout4
01-23-2010, 08:45 PM
Bold prediction - Rush will hit another shooting slump and will be benched until he can learn to be aggressive and stop wandering through life. People will ask "why can't he figure it out" even after he gets 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 assists and great all around team play with hustle.

People say they know he is our new McKey, but they don't react like they understand what this really means.


Meanwhile Dunleavy goes on a massive slump in all areas of play and is apparently right on track, sound and a vital part of the team.
Perhaps we can't afford just another McKey whose specialty is defense. That was a different team that had other scorers like Reggie and a defensive stopper was a luxury we could afford.

I'm beginning to think that Rush just needs a half a season to warm up as an offensive player.

Anthem
01-23-2010, 08:52 PM
Perhaps we can't afford just another McKey whose specialty is defense. That was a different team that had other scorers like Reggie and a defensive stopper was a luxury we could afford.
Yes and no... this team won't be a championship contender this year anyway, but even if he's always a SG version of McKey it's worthwhile to develop him as much as possible for when we ARE ready for that.


I'm beginning to think that Rush just needs a half a season to warm up as an offensive player.
I think he plays better next to some PGs than others.

jhondog28
01-23-2010, 09:14 PM
That's a crime that you dont have Kevin Love in the top few, yeah hes been injured but hes a double double machine when he plays.

Kevin Love actually would have come in at 9.

pacergod2
01-23-2010, 10:05 PM
I think that will end up being a very good draft when people end up looking back. Outside of Joe Alexander of course.

MLB007
01-23-2010, 10:26 PM
I was thinking along the same lines - "Holy crap, I do believe JOB just praised Rush in public!" And not in a backhanded compliment kind of way either. It is a nice change.

I'm still annoyed because Rush was already aggressive on the defensive end but whatever, I'll take what I can get from the Department of Obie Speak. :cool:

You mean he's actually playing as Obrien knows he can? How dare he expect and demand that of a player!! What a *rick!! ;)

dal9
01-23-2010, 10:37 PM
"*rick"

lol

imawhat
01-23-2010, 10:52 PM
Meanwhile Dunleavy goes on a massive slump in all areas of play and is apparently right on track, sound and a vital part of the team.

This is what burns me more than anything. The inconsistency and contradiction in O'Brien's quotes is only rivaled by the inconsistency of the team's play. I read this stuff and seriously question his basketball knowledge.

Naptown_Seth
01-24-2010, 12:02 AM
If you look at the first round of this draft this was a very week draft. I would say the Pacers drafted two of the top 8 players in the draft as far as potential is concerned.

1. Rose
2. B Lopez
3. Gallinari
4. Mayo
5. Gordon
6. Hibbert
7. Hickson
8. Rush

So it is hard for me to be sad that we got Rush. I think we drafted better than our given draft postion that year. I think that is why we all should be happy that we got Rush and Hibbert where we did. I think Rush can do things very well for us in the future. He just may need time.
I was maybe the first PD guy (tied with Kegboy) to be on the BRush wagon, but good lord...

:picard:


Love, Westbrook, Beasley and why am I even bothering at this point. If you had a pick in this draft you probably got a good player.


Rush and Hibbert don't have potential, they are vets by college standards. You draft them because they are much more mature and capable of getting their game in shape quickly. I think it's wrong to expect much more growth out of either of them. Some sure, but nothing to take them to AS level. These aren't raw 19 year old one-and-dones.

Naptown_Seth
01-24-2010, 12:08 AM
BTW, I just realized that O'Brien had me at "I don't know".
I've never agreed with something more in my life.

BlueNGold
01-24-2010, 12:16 AM
Rush and Hibbert don't have potential, they are vets by college standards. You draft them because they are much more mature and capable of getting their game in shape quickly. I think it's wrong to expect much more growth out of either of them. Some sure, but nothing to take them to AS level. These aren't raw 19 year old one-and-dones.

Granger begs to differ.

jhondog28
01-24-2010, 10:26 AM
I was maybe the first PD guy (tied with Kegboy) to be on the BRush wagon, but good lord...

:picard:


Love, Westbrook, Beasley and why am I even bothering at this point. If you had a pick in this draft you probably got a good player.


Rush and Hibbert don't have potential, they are vets by college standards. You draft them because they are much more mature and capable of getting their game in shape quickly. I think it's wrong to expect much more growth out of either of them. Some sure, but nothing to take them to AS level. These aren't raw 19 year old one-and-dones.

Potential was the wrong word. I meant to say production. These are the top 8 players as far as production is concerned as of right now. Beasley and Love have not produced to the level of these players and I completely dropped the ball on Westbrook. He should be up there.

LG33
01-24-2010, 11:09 AM
I think he plays better next to some PGs than others.

I think this point deserves closer consideration because, if I remember correctly, he broke out last year when Jarrett Jack was the starter and improved his offensive output this year after Earl Watson became the starter. His defense didn't change much no matter who was at the point, but he definitely became more involved on offense. I'm too dumb/lazy to do a more in-depth analysis, but I would like to know if the above hypothesis can be backed up statistically.

Now obviously, two years is not a significant enough sample to positively determine a trend, but it would add another wrinkle to the "Brandon Rush is a system player" debate.


(And I disagree with those that say Rush and Roy don't have potential. They may have been more polished upon entering the league, but you definitely don't peak as a player at 24 years old)

PacerDude
01-24-2010, 12:05 PM
Potential was the wrong word. I meant to say production. These are the top 8 players as far as production is concerned as of right now. Beasley and Love have not produced to the level of these players ............Love is at 15 and 12 this year.

Beasley - 16 and 7.

Rush - 8 and 3.

Hibbert - 10 and 6.

I understand what you're trying to do. I just don't get how you're trying to do it.

ksuttonjr76
01-24-2010, 01:26 PM
Granger begs to differ.

Don't forget Tim Duncan.

BlueNGold
01-24-2010, 03:43 PM
Don't forget Tim Duncan.

Duncan was tearing it up from Day 1. He averaged 21ppg and 12 boards his rookie year! Granger developed into an NBA all star after some people thought he had no offensive game. IOW, there was no turning the corner for Duncan in the NBA. He turned that corner when he was 8 or 9 years old....maybe

jhondog28
01-24-2010, 04:40 PM
Love is at 15 and 12 this year.

Beasley - 16 and 7.

Rush - 8 and 3.

Hibbert - 10 and 6.

I understand what you're trying to do. I just don't get how you're trying to do it.

alright alright. My point is that rush and hibbert were taken in very good positions during that draft. I still maintain that if the first round could be re done both Hibbert and Rush would be taken in the top 10 picks. Since the Pacers got both Hibbert and Rush after the tenth pick that year I feel that we did pretty well in that draft.

dohman
01-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Brandon will not be a bust in this league in my eyes. He is a very instinctively good basketball player. He is a amazing defender and can rebound the ball very well. If he works on his shot over the next few summers and can get to the 10-14 ppg mark he will be a HUGE attribute to this team. There is always a need for a player like him in this league.

gummy
02-04-2010, 10:19 PM
I saw today that JOB actually praised Rush's defense for the first time I can remember this season. Of course, it comes in the context of him being pleased with Brandon's offensive input...apparently that is what it takes for coach to notice what he's doing on the other end of the floor:

"I'm certainly hoping the production he has given us over the last 15 games or so is who he is because he's playing really well," said Coach Jim O'Brien. "He's shooting the ball at a very high clip with a lot of confidence. On-ball defense is good. We certainly need to continue to grow him off the ball because we think he can be a special defensive player. But I'm hoping and praying that this is who he is. I would like to say it's something we did to flip the switch."

The relevant stats:

Double figures for seven straight games, averaging 14.4 points on .481 shooting overall and .514 from the 3-point line in that span.

He's been the team's best 3-point shooter for over a month, 29-of-58 (.500) in the last 16 games.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/preview_100205.html

Naptown_Seth
02-05-2010, 12:35 AM
alright alright. My point is that rush and hibbert were taken in very good positions during that draft. I still maintain that if the first round could be re done both Hibbert and Rush would be taken in the top 10 picks. Since the Pacers got both Hibbert and Rush after the tenth pick that year I feel that we did pretty well in that draft.
I loved Rush, though I loved him as a 15-20th pick and felt he was playing his way past us. Hibbert I was worried about even though I like who he was.

I'm a huge fan of both along with Price, who I also loved as a 2nd round target and was thrilled when it came true.

But no way they are top 10 on a redraft at this point. My very quick rough take...

Rose
Westbrook
Love
Mayo
Beasley

Gordon
Lopez
Randolph
Thompson
C Lee

Augustin
Gallinari
Rush (13)
A Moute
CDR

G Hill
Speights
Hibbert (17)
Chalmers

They weren't reaches, they were drafted correctly basically. And I left Bayless off for now though I think he'll end up being top 15 from this draft.

The draft produced at least 20 solid to really good NBA players.

graphic-er
02-05-2010, 01:14 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Anthony Randolf for the Warriors. That kid has alot of game offensively and is pretty long. I'd take him over Rush any day. Heck maybe even Hibbert.

Naptown_Seth
02-05-2010, 03:53 PM
You see him in my top 10, or maybe that's why you mentioned it.


BTW, to clarify that's my current redraft. I do like the progress of Rush and Hibbert so it's hard to be certain where they'll end up. I don't think they have tons of extra upside, but I like their approach to the game.

Lance George
02-05-2010, 04:24 PM
I think there's a decent shot Hibbert would go top-10 in a draft re-do due to his strong overall skill level and the fact that 7'2" true centers with talent are hard to find.

Tier 1
Derrick Rose
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
O.J. Mayo
Kevin Love

Tier 2
Michael Beasley
Eric Gordon
Anthony Randolph
Jason Thompson
Roy Hibbert
Danilo Galinari
Marreese Speights

Tier 3
Jerryd Bayless
George Hill
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Anthony Morrow
Courtney Lee

Tier 4
Luc Mbah a Moute
Brandon Rush
Robin Lopez
Goran Dragić
Donté Greene
D.J. Augustin
Ryan Anderson
Mario Chalmers
Serge Ibaka