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View Full Version : O'Brien goes off/ Mike Wells



vnzla81
01-21-2010, 06:34 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/01/obrien_goes_off.html


ORLANDO, Fla. - It's no secret that Pacers coach Jim O'Brien can be moody. He takes certain losses very personal.

O'Brien let his team know about his displeasure with their slow starts when he was talking to them at halftime, then suddenly started dropping some expletives at them before walking out the locker room. I was told O'Brien basically called them soft (in not so gentle words, though) after watching some first half clips.

You can't blame him for doing that. It's like they don't care most of the time. That's why they continue to get beat.

"He got into our (butts)," Danny Granger said. "We're not always tied together as a team. We make selfish plays on offense and defense. We argue with each other instead of getting mad at the other team. We deserve everything he told us. We can't get down 25 points every game we play."

The Pacers have 17 double-figure losses this season compared to just 14 all of last season.

"I think sometimes it can be attributed to effort, other times it can be attributed to understanding what we're trying to do," swingman Mike Dunleavy said. "It seems like we have a hard time following through what we're told to do on a daily and weekly basis.

"We're always playing catch up. Certainly more effort and desire will help that, but at some point we have to start figuring things out and know where we're supposed to be."

I continue to get asked why the Pacers haven't made any trades.

Again, who would you want off this roster if you were an opposing general manager?

*****************

O'Brien said he's thinking about changing the starting lineup - again.

O'Brien only has so many options he can turn to. He's already used 16 different starting lineups for a number of reasons this season.

"The big lineup doesn't work," he said. "We're too slow, (that lineup) doesn't run, doesn't move, doesn't get up and down and doesn't defend at a high enough level. We're better when we're small."

Roy Hibbert or Troy Murphy are the likely candidates to move to the bench if O'Brien does change the starting lineup.

My guess would be Hibbert because O'Brien likes having Murphy on the court for his ability to shoot the ball.

twitter.com/wells222




I think that somebody should go off on him and tell him to leave this team.:mad:/ I want him gone but at the moment we need him to lose more games ;)

jhondog28
01-21-2010, 08:34 AM
Yea move Hibbert to the bench thats a good idea....stupid stupid stupid.

sportfireman
01-21-2010, 08:40 AM
Bye bye Roy it was nice seeing you in the starting line up...........Jeff must be healthy again. Time to showcase Jeff for a trade.

90'sNBARocked
01-21-2010, 10:36 AM
Man,

Whether you blame Obie, Bird, the Players, Simon etc.

It doesnt matter

The fact is we have been on a downword slide since 04 and this bunch now I would like half these &^%^%$ to be sent to the D league

Having little talent is one thing, not being able to put forth maximum effort and constant *****ing is another

Shade
01-21-2010, 11:38 AM
It's time to move some players and the coach.

CableKC
01-21-2010, 11:41 AM
I have no problem with Hibbert going to the bench. I think that JO'B has enough of a grasp of Hibbert's game to recognize that he's too good to be sitting on the bench for too long. I don't agree with it.....but at this point....JO'B will slot Hibbert to get a certain # of minutes and how many more minutes that he gets will be based entirely on how well Hibbert does.

Keep in mind that right now, we only have 4 Players that can play Center....Murphy, Hibbert, Solo and McRoberts. We all know that McRoberts won't sniff any minutes....and Solo....despite having more experience then McRoberts and Hibbert...has a very limited Offensive game...which we know that JO'B hates since he prefers to have as many offensive scoring options on the floor at all times.

One way or another......whether Hibbert is starting or not....Hibbert's minutes will only be impacted by the return of Foster ( who can return unexpectedly at any time ), Murphy and himself ( based off of whether he stays out of Foul trouble ). Unless Foster returns......JO'B will have little choice but to give Hibbert enough minutes to make an impact. To me....this sounds like a reasonable conclusion....but of course, JO'B has always found some way to escape a logical conclusion.

Infinite MAN_force
01-21-2010, 02:38 PM
There is a silver lineing here, just when I thought this team was about to turn the corner I forgot who our coach was. We are going to have as good of a shot at John Wall as anybody. Thank you Jim Obrien.

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2010, 02:50 PM
Yeah, this just kills me. He's all upset because the bigs can't run, he has a big on the bench that can run, and he doesn't even try him out. It would be one thing if JOB was thinking everything was great, but have you ever known a coach that didn't like to prove a point with the 12th man when a team went down by 20 points, especially on a regular basis.

Usually the coach then puts in that kid just to show up the vets. Here JOB cusses them all out, then runs them all back out there for more of the same. The Magic game only got close because they lost interest and effort.


Let JOB do whatever he wants. No matter what change he makes things still look terrible or do within a few games.

One thing hasn't changed in all these terrible losses. The coach.

When people defended JOB to start the year, back when people were saying 38-40 wins and the playoffs, I said that the fans wouldn't determine his fate, that it was all in his hands. Deliver a decent season, say 38-40 wins, spunky, signs of hope, and he was here to stay.

Coaches in their 3rd season of non-playoffs that have their WORST season with nearly every game featuring the team down by 20 points, even the wins; those dudes get fired. Or did Frank get to keep his job and I missed it?

Hicks
01-21-2010, 02:52 PM
There is a silver lineing here, just when I thought this team was about to turn the corner I forgot who our coach was. We are going to have as good of a shot at John Wall as anybody. Thank you Jim Obrien.

He'll just change his mind again in 1-2 weeks.

O'Brien over thinks things and ends up out-smarting himself.

nerveghost
01-21-2010, 03:48 PM
I'm not going to blame O'brien for saying the truth - they HAVE been playing like a bunch of (softies). If I was O'Brien and I'm going down, i'm going down in a hail of gunfire, so to speak.

DaveP63
01-21-2010, 04:28 PM
It needed to be said, but here's the real question. Will it have any effect? Or, has he lost them?

PaceBalls
01-21-2010, 04:53 PM
Maybe if he didn't insist on playing the (softies) 30+ minutes every game he wouldn't have to yell at them and call them (softies).

I mean somewhere there is a disconnect with him wanting to spread the defense and having our defense spread thin...

Brad8888
01-21-2010, 05:34 PM
If the players are trying to run O'B out, could it be working?

Bball
01-21-2010, 06:27 PM
If the players are trying to run O'B out, could it be working?


Or maybe they're trying to run themselves out...

Imagine you're a player and you hear the front office saying the coach is staying and the players better start listening to him or they'll be the ones leaving.

If I was being asked to play a losing brand of basketball like what O'Brien is preaching for this team then I'd totally quit listening to him at that moment and pray that I'm the first player shipped out.

Players have had 2+ years of his brand of bad basketball (and mixed messages). They know it isn't working and I'd venture to say they know why it isn't working. Which is apparently more than I can say for O'Brien.

"Coach stays? Fine... just get me the he77 out of here"

Brad8888
01-21-2010, 06:36 PM
Or maybe they're trying to run themselves out...

Imagine you're a player and you hear the front office saying the coach is staying and the players better start listening to him or they'll be the ones leaving.

If I was being asked to play a losing brand of basketball like what O'Brien is preaching for this team then I'd totally quit listening to him at that moment and pray that I'm the first player shipped out.

Players have had 2+ years of his brand of bad basketball (and mixed messages). They know it isn't working and I'd venture to say they know why it isn't working. Which is apparently more than I can say for O'Brien.

"Coach stays? Fine... just get me the he77 out of here"

I would be agree that there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, especially for players who have not established roots and family and friendship ties here in Indiana, and it is surprising that we haven't had any media leaks regarding this very issue besides Bird's trade threats and Mel Daniels' alleged statement about players not liking the O'B extension. Gotta hand it to the players for keeping this out of the media, because quite a few players have forced reduced value trades by coming out in public and telling it like it is (or at least their version of it).

Lord Helmet
01-21-2010, 06:46 PM
What the hell is the problem with this team? Stop being so damn selfish, are you kidding me? If we're somewhat close to .500 we have a playoff shot, quit *****ing and play the game. :unimpress

judicata
01-21-2010, 06:49 PM
Or maybe they're trying to run themselves out...

Imagine you're a player and you hear the front office saying the coach is staying and the players better start listening to him or they'll be the ones leaving.

If I was being asked to play a losing brand of basketball like what O'Brien is preaching for this team then I'd totally quit listening to him at that moment and pray that I'm the first player shipped out.

Players have had 2+ years of his brand of bad basketball (and mixed messages). They know it isn't working and I'd venture to say they know why it isn't working. Which is apparently more than I can say for O'Brien.

"Coach stays? Fine... just get me the he77 out of here"

If I was a self-proclaimed professional getting paid millions of dollars I would man up, commit myself to the system, and tirelessly work on my game.

No one said winning in the NBA was going to be easy or that gratification was going to instantly, or ever, possible. These players get paid to put a product on the floor, and they don't get to choose the wrapping paper. Every player on the team knows that the terrible contracts are choking the organization's ability to compete. That does not mean they get to ignore the coach and dog it on the floor. You make do with what you have, and you do not lament that things are not perfect.

If you're going to mail it in because O'Brien isn't Phil Jackson and the Pacers are not the Lakers, should the organization be pissed that you're not Kobe?

Jonathan
01-21-2010, 07:00 PM
I do not blame JOB or Bird.


I blame the the league. Players contract's are outrageous & need to be regulated.

Peck
01-21-2010, 07:25 PM
He'll just change his mind again in 1-2 weeks.

O'Brien over thinks things and ends up out-smarting himself.

Yet he always comes up with the same conclusion. More spacing, faster offense and let's hit our three's.

Basically the way he has us playing it all pretty much boils down to if we are hitting our three point shots or not. If we are then we have a punchers chance, if we are not we have no hope in hell.

Infinite MAN_force
01-21-2010, 07:31 PM
Yet he always comes up with the same conclusion. More spacing, faster offense and let's hit our three's.

Basically the way he has us playing it all pretty much boils down to if we are hitting our three point shots or not. If we are then we have a punchers chance, if we are not we have no hope in hell.

While also ignoring the fact that with Murphy out of the lineup we have utilized a more structured inside out offense and been somewhat successful with it... yet at the first sign of trouble always reverting back to "put 5 shooters on the floor, bombs away!". It is very frustrating.

Bball
01-21-2010, 11:01 PM
If I was a self-proclaimed professional getting paid millions of dollars I would man up, commit myself to the system, and tirelessly work on my game.

No one said winning in the NBA was going to be easy or that gratification was going to instantly, or ever, possible. These players get paid to put a product on the floor, and they don't get to choose the wrapping paper. Every player on the team knows that the terrible contracts are choking the organization's ability to compete. That does not mean they get to ignore the coach and dog it on the floor. You make do with what you have, and you do not lament that things are not perfect.

If you're going to mail it in because O'Brien isn't Phil Jackson and the Pacers are not the Lakers, should the organization be pissed that you're not Kobe?


Except these players have given O'Brien's fundamentally flawed ideas a chance... and it still comes up fundamentally flawed. This is not O'Brien's first year.

These are professional basketball players who have been coached and studied the game all their lives. Eventually you have to admit to yourself when something isn't working.

This isn't a case (it would appear) where we have a couple of players that think they should be stars and demanding the ball. Instead it appears it's a group of players who can recognize a fundamentally flawed brand of basketball, and series of mixed messages from the coach and realize after 2+ years it is just what it appears: Bad basketball .

I have to wonder if Bird feels burned by giving up on Carlisle too soon when it that case it was the players??

Bball
01-21-2010, 11:02 PM
While also ignoring the fact that with Murphy out of the lineup we have utilized a more structured inside out offense and been somewhat successful with it... yet at the first sign of trouble always reverting back to "put 5 shooters on the floor, bombs away!". It is very frustrating.

Trouble? He doesn't even need trouble, he just needs Murphy healed up and ready to play.

OakMoses
01-22-2010, 05:52 PM
The one logical conclusion from this article is the one thing that no one seems to want to acknowledge: O'Brien is just as frustrated, if not more, with this team than any of the fans are.

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2010, 02:04 PM
If you're going to mail it in because O'Brien isn't Phil Jackson and the Pacers are not the Lakers, should the organization be pissed that you're not Kobe?
One caveat - they might not be Kobe, but they might be capable of winning a lot more games than this.

So the org. can be as PO'd as it wants and dump them all, but if the coach is the part holding them back most of all then it won't get better until he's gone, much like they had to move JO and Tins before the locker room improved (we think).

Everyone might be accountable, but they aren't equally the problem. And if one problem is dramatically worse than the rest then it's going to demoralize the rest of the group if it can be fixed.


I suppose the players could unite and just agree to play their own winning style and not do what JOB says. That will result in benchings, but if the group is unified then that doesn't stop them from doing things the "right" way still.

But I'm not sure how that kind of "man up and make the best of it" approach would work.


This is a truth in all workplaces - if management lets a problem worker linger it impacts the rest of the group. That could be a manager or a coworker or one team that has to work with another department full of worthless workers not being dealt with by a weak manager.

A big boss that lets a lower boss be a bad boss is not doing his job anymore than if JOB let the worst shooter continue to take 25 FGAs a night at a 20% rate. You can't say that the other guys should just look past it and be professional because the guy allowing that situation is himself not being professional.

If Artest was allowed to be a jerk then you can't blame Foster for not wanting to come to work and be around that.

Good businesses ALWAYS are due to a TOP DOWN impact. Top guy sets the standards below him and so on. It doesn't work it's way back upward in orgs, there is too much static and resistance for that to happen.

Doug
01-23-2010, 02:38 PM
These are professional basketball players who have been coached and studied the game all their lives. Eventually you have to admit to yourself when something isn't working.

This is where I'm at. This is not JOB's first year, and while we have had some roster turnover, we are now half-way through the season.

If the players either don't get the offense and defensive schemes, or can't execute them, then it's time to change the schemes to something they can execute.