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90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 12:10 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?chat_topics_id=727&status=Active



Eric P in Naptown:
good morning Steve, Please tell me the Pacers are about to pull off some trades.I am on the ledge and about to jump, what I saw last night was abhorent!


Steve Kyler:
Sorry Eric... the Pacers are like many teams... they have a lot of pieces they would part with and no one is offering value... the Pacers don't have a lot of excess talent, so they need to get something back for what they send out... we're hearing lots of love for Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster, yet no one is offering anything other than "dump deals" --- so until value is kicked in this is how the Pacers are for a while.

I expect them to make some moves at the deadline, especially if anyone shows real interest in TJ Ford... I think taking Ford is gonna be part of the deal that gets a team Jeff Foster or Troy Murphy.
Most teams at this point are offering their lowest offer hoping to steal some talent from teams desperate to change... most offers go up at the All-Star break, so its waiting fro 30 more days and hoping you can get more for what you have.

Guys... I am out of time... thanks for all the questions... make sure to swing by and check out Coach Mike at 12pm EST... you can also hear me talking NBA smack with Bob Haynie at 11:30am EST on WNST.


Wow, I can not believe we can get someone to take on BOTH Murphy and Ford! That would be like almost 20 million combined!

May be Bird in retrospect is doing the right thing. If the choice is nothing but a salry dump for us then why help a team? I would rather he keep the Murph/Ford?dun connection until it comes off the books

tadscout
01-20-2010, 12:18 PM
That's what I've been trying to say in multiple threads why trades don't really happen till at least the last week of the deadline.... the teams wanting what others have try to lowball like no ones business till then and the teams in the drivers seat w/ the pieces are starting high working their way down...

So, they are both starting at each extreme and the closer to the deadline they get the closer to the middle and a reasonable deal they will get... happens every year.

Unclebuck
01-20-2010, 12:20 PM
I would be shockled if a team took both Ford and Murphy - in fact I don't see how that is possible with their combined salary.

Troy is making 11
TJ is making 8.5
Jeff is making 6.1

Tro and TJ combined is 19.5. Jeff and TJ is 14.6 that seems more doable

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 12:40 PM
I would be shockled if a team took both Ford and Murphy - in fact I don't see how that is possible with their combined salary.

Troy is making 11
TJ is making 8.5
Jeff is making 6.1

Tro and TJ combined is 19.5. Jeff and TJ is 14.6 that seems more doable

If it did happen, which I agree is highly unlikely , the only feasable trade I could see is Murphy/Ford and filler for T Mac

or we will take on a very crappy contract form the other team

tadscout
01-20-2010, 12:58 PM
I would be shockled if a team took both Ford and Murphy - in fact I don't see how that is possible with their combined salary.

Troy is making 11
TJ is making 8.5
Jeff is making 6.1

Tro and TJ combined is 19.5. Jeff and TJ is 14.6 that seems more doable

Yeah the only thing that makes sense is

Foster and Ford - 14.6
for
Kirilenko 16.45

but then again how much leeway do we have with the LT?

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 01:01 PM
Yeah the only thing that makes sense is

Foster and Ford - 14.6
for
Kirilenko 16.45

but then again how much leeway do we have with the LT?

None,

We are well over the cap until 2012

tadscout
01-20-2010, 01:26 PM
None,

We are well over the cap until 2012

Over the cap and luxury tax two different things ;)

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Over the cap and luxury tax two different things ;)

good point

We are over on both no?

vnzla81
01-20-2010, 01:43 PM
good point

We are over on both no?

Count55 were are you?;)

MillerTime
01-20-2010, 01:45 PM
good point

We are over on both no?

By the looks of it (with the current roster), we should be under the cap (therefore under the LT) by the summer of 2011

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/pacers.jsp

CableKC
01-20-2010, 01:53 PM
I would be shockled if a team took both Ford and Murphy - in fact I don't see how that is possible with their combined salary.

Troy is making 11
TJ is making 8.5
Jeff is making 6.1

Tro and TJ combined is 19.5. Jeff and TJ is 14.6 that seems more doable
Remember....there's more $14.6 to $19.5 mil to consider.....double that cost since everyone is owed that much more guaranteed $$$ over the next 2 years. Adding that much $$$ to the 2010-2011 Salary Cap is something to strongly consider. Honestly....if Bird and Co are attaching Ford to either Foster or Murphy....I think it's a HUGE mistake. Right now, we are getting barely anything in return for Murphy ( if not Foster )...adding Ford to the price tag will sink any chance that we have of moving either of them.

Naptown_Seth
01-20-2010, 01:55 PM
Z for Troy

Tmac, Chase for TJ, Foster, Dun, Rush

Not thrilled with the TMac thing, couldn't figure out how to make a quality 3 team deal work, maybe if picks are used.

Trophy
01-20-2010, 01:57 PM
I can see both TJ and Jeff being acquired by a team that is already decent and maybe even a veteran team, but a team that needs some more backups in their rotation.

tadscout
01-20-2010, 01:58 PM
I can see both TJ and Jeff being acquired by a team that is already decent and maybe even a veteran team, but a team that needs some more backups in their rotation.

Like Utah? :-p

Trophy
01-20-2010, 01:59 PM
Like Utah? :-p

Either Utah or even Portland depending on what they do with Andre Miller.

CableKC
01-20-2010, 02:03 PM
By the looks of it (with the current roster), we should be under the cap (therefore under the LT) by the summer of 2011

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/pacers.jsp
What matters is that we will be over the LT next season ( the 2010-2011 season ). If we do nothing and keep all of the Big 4 Contracts, we would have been under the LT in the Summer of 2011 ( the 2011-2012 season ) regardless.

Although count55 would have to confirm.....next season in the 2010-2011 season......the Pacers would likely be about $5 to 7 mil over the LT...which translates into paying about $10 to 14 mil in LT to the NBA.

IMHO....a AK47+filler for Murphy+Ford wouldn't happen. For the Pacers, the Pacers wouldn't do this for financial reasons since it does very little to improve their SalaryCap/Financial situation for the 2010-2011 season. For the Jazz, they already have Okur and already have Deron as their Starting PG where Ford would be the most expensive Backup PG in the league.

It would be EXTREMELY difficult to move Murphy ( or Foster ) while including Ford. Ignoring that I doubt that we'd find that many Teams interested in taking 2 players with big contracts on....we'd have to take into consideration one of the primary aims of moving any of the Big 4 contracts....getting one of biggest Expiring Contract that we can find in exchange for any combination of the Big 4 contracts.

Finding a Team willing to take on one of the Big 4 Contracts in exchange for an Expiring contract...a likely possibility...finiding a Team that would be willing to take on 2 of the Big 4 Contracts while getting back an Expiring Contract AND not taking on a huge long-term contract that would mess up our Financial/SalaryCap situation.....highly improbable.

tadscout
01-20-2010, 02:37 PM
What matters is that we will be over the LT next season ( the 2010-2011 season ). If we do nothing and keep all of the Big 4 Contracts, we would have been under the LT in the Summer of 2011 ( the 2011-2012 season ) regardless.

Although count55 would have to confirm.....next season in the 2010-2011 season......the Pacers would likely be about $5 to 7 mil over the LT...which translates into paying about $10 to 14 mil in LT to the NBA.

IMHO....a AK47+filler for Murphy+Ford wouldn't happen. For the Pacers, the Pacers wouldn't do this for financial reasons since it does very little to improve their SalaryCap/Financial situation for the 2010-2011 season. For the Jazz, they already have Okur and already have Deron as their Starting PG where Ford would be the most expensive Backup PG in the league.

It would be EXTREMELY difficult to move Murphy ( or Foster ) while including Ford. Ignoring that I doubt that we'd find that many Teams interested in taking 2 players with big contracts on....we'd have to take into consideration one of the primary aims of moving any of the Big 4 contracts....getting one of biggest Expiring Contract that we can find in exchange for any combination of the Big 4 contracts.

Finding a Team willing to take on one of the Big 4 Contracts in exchange for an Expiring contract...a likely possibility...finiding a Team that would be willing to take on 2 of the Big 4 Contracts while getting back an Expiring Contract AND not taking on a huge long-term contract that would mess up our Financial/SalaryCap situation.....highly improbable.

Well they are rumored as one of the teams most interested in Foster so don't discount their interest in him b/c of Okur... also it's doable financially if we get and expiring for Murph, so also don't 100% write that off as well.

Now to Ford yes he would be the most expensive back up PG in the league, but what back up PG do they have? If they want an upgrade for one last hurah push with Boozer on the roster, then why not?

So things arn't always as cut and dry as you say/think (might want to remove the horse blinders...).

Now yes, is a Foster and Ford for AK47 unlikely yes, but not impossible...

I do however think that Foster for Korver and a 1st could be the deal mostly to happen...

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 02:42 PM
What matters is that we will be over the LT next season ( the 2010-2011 season ). If we do nothing and keep all of the Big 4 Contracts, we would have been under the LT in the Summer of 2011 ( the 2011-2012 season ) regardless.

Although count55 would have to confirm.....next season in the 2010-2011 season......the Pacers would likely be about $5 to 7 mil over the LT...which translates into paying about $10 to 14 mil in LT to the NBA.

IMHO....a AK47+filler for Murphy+Ford wouldn't happen. For the Pacers, the Pacers wouldn't do this for financial reasons since it does very little to improve their SalaryCap/Financial situation for the 2010-2011 season. For the Jazz, they already have Okur and already have Deron as their Starting PG where Ford would be the most expensive Backup PG in the league.

It would be EXTREMELY difficult to move Murphy ( or Foster ) while including Ford. Ignoring that I doubt that we'd find that many Teams interested in taking 2 players with big contracts on....we'd have to take into consideration one of the primary aims of moving any of the Big 4 contracts....getting one of biggest Expiring Contract that we can find in exchange for any combination of the Big 4 contracts.

Finding a Team willing to take on one of the Big 4 Contracts in exchange for an Expiring contract...a likely possibility...finiding a Team that would be willing to take on 2 of the Big 4 Contracts while getting back an Expiring Contract AND not taking on a huge long-term contract that would mess up our Financial/SalaryCap situation.....highly improbable.

Can a player like Ford, who has a players option, agree to the trading partner that he will opt out of his contract next year?

wintermute
01-20-2010, 02:50 PM
troy and tj for shaq works. we then buyout shaq so he can go back to cleveland, i.e. a similar arrangement as would be done in a troy for z trade.

not sure why the cavs would want tj though, other than as the price we set for getting troy.

tadscout
01-20-2010, 02:59 PM
I have a feeling attaching Ford to deals is just our starting high point to just see if there is any bites out there at all... if there are non, he'll eventually be taken off the asking price... again we're still a couple weeks away, so they are playing a negotiating game to see the reactions of the other gm's and to have them bid against each other to get the best deal possible for us...

CableKC
01-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Can a player like Ford, who has a players option, agree to the trading partner that he will opt out of his contract next year?
Sure, but since most of us are pretty sure that he won't do that......it doesn't really matter. On top of that....even if he did decide to opt out...why include him in the 1st place when he could simply opt out as a Pacer?

Brad8888
01-20-2010, 04:29 PM
I wonder if Chad Ford could confirm this thought regarding TJ being part of any deal in the works?

Don't worry, I will just confirm it myself -- Pacers will trade Murphy and TJ to the Lebrons for Varejao and Ilgauskas plus two draft picks. I'm not worried about reality here, or whether the salaries work on trade checkers. We get a PF who is good on offense and just below average defensively to complement Roy, and get to buy Ilgauskas out and save big money, and Cleveland gets the final nail in their Finals aspirations coffin in Murphy and the point guard of Lebron's dreams who knows how to create his own offense, and will only have the ball in his hands when Lebron doesn't want to score.

Justin Tyme
01-20-2010, 04:30 PM
troy and tj for shaq works. we then buyout shaq so he can go back to cleveland,


I was just thinking the samething. I don't see it possibly happening tho.

Brad8888
01-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Well they are rumored as one of the teams most interested in Foster so don't discount their interest in him b/c of Okur... also it's doable financially if we get and expiring for Murph, so also don't 100% write that off as well.

Now to Ford yes he would be the most expensive back up PG in the league, but what back up PG do they have? If they want an upgrade for one last hurah push with Boozer on the roster, then why not?

So things arn't always as cut and dry as you say/think (might want to remove the horse blinders...).

Now yes, is a Foster and Ford for AK47 unlikely yes, but not impossible...

I do however think that Foster for Korver and a 1st could be the deal mostly to happen...

At least Korver fits Jim's system -- All 3's all the time, with little defense. He makes as much sense as anyone else at this point.

tadscout
01-20-2010, 04:39 PM
At least Korver fits Jim's system -- All 3's all the time, with little defense. He makes as much sense as anyone else at this point.

The key is Korver is an expiring contract... and a first is gravy on top, well actually might be the key part of the deal (even more so if we get the Knicks pick out of them some how)...

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 04:40 PM
At least Korver fits Jim's system -- All 3's all the time, with little defense. He makes as much sense as anyone else at this point.

yep,

then Bird will out bid himself and resign Korver to a 4 year 38 million dollar contract :)

Justin Tyme
01-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Well they are rumored as one of the teams most interested in Foster so don't discount their interest in him b/c of Okur... also it's doable financially if we get and expiring for Murph, so also don't 100% write that off as well.

Now to Ford yes he would be the most expensive back up PG in the league, but what back up PG do they have? If they want an upgrade for one last hurah push with Boozer on the roster, then why not?

So things arn't always as cut and dry as you say/think (might want to remove the horse blinders...).

Now yes, is a Foster and Ford for AK47 unlikely yes, but not impossible...

I do however think that Foster for Korver and a 1st could be the deal mostly to happen...


I'm not sure Sloan is all that crazy with Okur's play at the present time, but they like Foster. Is Foster worth taking on salary by giving up Korver's expiring? They just let Maynor, future b/u PG, for LT savings.

tadscout
01-20-2010, 06:24 PM
I'm not sure Sloan is all that crazy with Okur's play at the present time, but they like Foster. Is Foster worth taking on salary by giving up Korver's expiring? They just let Maynor, future b/u PG, for LT savings.

But also in the opposite tune they are turning down Boozer trades that could get them below the LT b/c they want to focus on winning... so who really knows where their priority is for this one, currant season...

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 07:46 PM
But also in the opposite tune they are turning down Boozer trades that could get them below the LT b/c they want to focus on winning... so who really knows where their priority is for this one, currant season...

Good point,

One never knows

vnzla81
01-21-2010, 01:12 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30406


Larry Bird ((Indy))


What can I get for Troy Murphy? The locals are falling asleep here...

John Hollinger (12:16 PM)


A lot of Murphy talk out there, but I wonder how the Pacers get better from a trade like that. Even if they deal him for expiring contracts they won't have any cap space next year, so what's the point? The better move would be to trade T.J. Ford, since they apparently have intention of playing him again, and getting something for Jeff Foster while they still can.

CableKC
01-21-2010, 01:24 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30406


Larry Bird ((Indy))


What can I get for Troy Murphy? The locals are falling asleep here...

John Hollinger (12:16 PM)


A lot of Murphy talk out there, but I wonder how the Pacers get better from a trade like that. Even if they deal him for expiring contracts they won't have any cap space next year, so what's the point?
Hollinger does have some useful insight...especially with his analysis.....but I'd really hope that he does his research into what else is going on with the Team instead of simply relying on Stats.


The better move would be to trade T.J. Ford, since they apparently have intention of playing him again,
I wonder what he means by this. :confused:

90'sNBARocked
01-21-2010, 01:28 PM
Hollinger does have some useful insight...especially with his analysis.....but I'd really hope that he does his research into what else is going on with the Team instead of simply relying on Stats.


I wonder what he means by this. :confused:

I was thinking the exact same thing!

I dont want to help Cleveland for the sake of helping Cleveland and just to trade for Big Z and then to release him to resign again with Cleveland is bogus

Honestly if thats all Cleveland will offer then I will not be upset with Bird for him telling them to take a flying leap

no one expects a great player in return but at least a good player with promise

bottom line , Murphy would help Cleveland tremendously this year,

while Big Z wouldn'd do *** for us

Speed
01-21-2010, 01:40 PM
I wonder what he means by this. :confused:

TJ not playing... I've been thinking about this one.

Do we think management is letting TJ know that if he exercises his option next year for 8.5 million or so, that he won't play?

Do we think TJ would take the money and sit or opt out and play?

TJ not picking up his option really helps the bottom line (LT), right?

I think TJ can't turn down that kind of money, but man not playing is a tough pill to swallow in your prime.

-------

Edit: I think he meant NO intention of playing him.

count55
01-21-2010, 01:52 PM
I wonder what he means by this. :confused:

I think it's a typo. The phrasing makes me think he meant to type "no intention of playing him again.

Justin Tyme
01-21-2010, 03:13 PM
You trade Murphy to Cleveland for Z's expiring. You pay off Z. That savings translates to not being in LT at the end of 2011. Getting anything else, a young'n or pick, in the trade is just gravy.

I know "if you hold Murphy until he's an expiring you can trade him b4 next season's trade deadline" blah blah, BUT it also gives JOS another year of using Murphy to the detriment of other players. Not to mention what "if" something happens in those 12 months prior to next years trade deadline to Murphy"? Bird has then shot the Pacers in the foot by not making the trade. Bird by keeping Murphy will cost ownership 12 mil for 2011. Even if Bird keeps Murphy until next seasons trade deadline, he costing Simon millions in salary he's having to pay Murphy. I'm sure Simon's "bean counters" have made Herb aware of this.

Bird shouldn't pass on a trade to Cleveland with the logic it will help Cleveland. It won't hurt the Pacers one iota b/c they won't have a team this year or next to challenge Cleveland. JMOAA

diamonddave00
01-21-2010, 06:39 PM
With Mo Williams hurt for a month to six weeks maybe the Cavs would be interested in moving Z for Ford and Foster . Both Ford and Foster are not playing at all here so it would free up 15 mil next season .

The Pacers then still have Murphy and Dunleavy's 21 mil in contracts to trade this summer as expiring contracts.

PR07
01-21-2010, 06:55 PM
I think Cleveland wants Troy Murphy, not Jeff Foster. Isn't Foster basically a smaller and more beat-up Anderson Varejao?

Murphy and Ford for Ilgauskas, Jamario Moon, and JJ Hickson works. :dance:

tadscout
01-21-2010, 08:35 PM
With Mo Williams hurt for a month to six weeks maybe the Cavs would be interested in moving Z for Ford and Foster . Both Ford and Foster are not playing at all here so it would free up 15 mil next season .

The Pacers then still have Murphy and Dunleavy's 21 mil in contracts to trade this summer as expiring contracts.

The Cavs want to add another scorer, preferably a stretch four, thus Murph...

Foster isn't anywhere near what they want... yet I could see them being interested in Ford along in the Murph trade if they don't mind the LT implications (b/c any sane deal they'd be doing talent wise, ignoring the money/LT they'd be adding Millions more to their roster...)

vnzla81
01-21-2010, 08:41 PM
The Cavs want to add another scorer, preferably a stretch four, thus Murph...

Foster isn't anywhere near what they want... yet I could see them being interested in Ford along in the Murph trade if they don't mind the LT implications (b/c any sane deal they'd be doing talent wise, ignoring the money/LT they'd be adding Millions more to their roster...)

I think they would do Watson and Murphy for JJ 1st round pick and Big Z

tadscout
01-21-2010, 09:06 PM
I think they would do Watson and Murphy for JJ 1st round pick and Big Z

True, but I'd have a feeling Bird would be trying to unload Ford 100% first... after that, why offer Watson if you don't need to unless that's the only advantage it'll give you to to beat the Wiz in being the trade partner... b/c I have a feeling that's what Bird is hoping to get for Murph right now even w/o Watson in the deal...

vnzla81
01-21-2010, 09:10 PM
True, but I'd have a feeling Bird would be trying to unload Ford 100% first... after that, why offer Watson if you don't need to unless that's the only advantage it'll give you to to beat the Wiz in being the trade partner... b/c I have a feeling that's what Bird is hoping to get for Murph right now even w/o Watson in the deal...

I think that the only way Larry B is going to unload TJ Ford is if he lets him sit for the rest of the year in hopes that he is not going to pick his option, if that happens the pacers would get under the cap without having to move a finger(I think). If that does not happen at worst he could be a nice expirer next year.

CableKC
01-21-2010, 10:19 PM
From a Player POV.....while ignoring the SalaryCap/Financial implications of both.....I'd choose Jamison over Murphy anytime. He's more athletic and there is no way is his defense any worse...the only aspect of Murphy's game that probably is better then Jamison is Rebounding.

I'm telling you......the only way that the Pacers can really compete against the Wizards is if they come in with a lower asking price compared to the Wizards. I don't want to undervalue what Murphy brings to the team....but I do not want to lose out on the chance to get out from under the LT next season. I don't ever want to lose....but a few more of these loses ( like the last 2 games where we were down by 20+ in the 1st half ), I really hope that it convinces TPTB that we should hold on to Murphy with the hopes that we will reach the Playoffs. Having Murphy on the Team this season won't make much of a difference IMHO.....we would win as many games with or without him.

CableKC
01-22-2010, 12:06 AM
This isn't really any trade news...but some FYI on the status of Foster and when he could be back from his injury.

http://twitter.com/Wells222


@CyrilDagher Murphy's the hot name. Not sure Foster will be moved because he hasn't played in weeks and may not be back 4 a few more weeks.

I know that Foster has had back issues before....but has he been out this long?

BornReady
01-22-2010, 12:51 AM
I think Cleveland wants Troy Murphy, not Jeff Foster. Isn't Foster basically a smaller and more beat-up Anderson Varejao?

Murphy and Ford for Ilgauskas, Jamario Moon, and JJ Hickson works. :dance:

noooooo way
varejao is like the WORST
if you think solo or hans looks lost on offense and defense, check out this guy
i goto school in cleveland and i see waaaay too much of him

McKeyFan
01-22-2010, 10:53 AM
noooooo way
varejao is like the WORST
if you think solo or hans looks lost on offense and defense, check out this guy
i goto school in cleveland and i see waaaay too much of him

I guess you never watched him against the Pacers defense.

90'sNBARocked
01-22-2010, 12:13 PM
From a Player POV.....while ignoring the SalaryCap/Financial implications of both.....I'd choose Jamison over Murphy anytime. He's more athletic and there is no way is his defense any worse...the only aspect of Murphy's game that probably is better then Jamison is Rebounding.

I tend to disagree.

I think Murphy helps them more, becomes he can at least attempt to defend someone 6'10 or above

He can stretch the floor mcuh better than Jameson

Jameson likes to post up and that would clog the lane for LBJ
We all know Murphy cant/wont post up.

Jameson is the better player, while I believe Murphy (homer aside) is the better fit.

JMHO :)

Trophy
01-22-2010, 01:52 PM
In the whole NBA not just the Pacers, I doubt there's going to be any big trades. Maybe a few players moved for draft picks and what not.

I don't see Cleveland doing anything and I doubt we'll do anything major.

I still feel that Jeff is top player that will be moved by the deadline.

CableKC
01-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I tend to disagree.

I think Murphy helps them more, becomes he can at least attempt to defend someone 6'10 or above
Technically, you are correct.....but if the Cavs need someone to defend against someone that is 6'10" and above.....they just throw SideShow Bob, Shaq, Big Z against them...not Murphy.


He can stretch the floor mcuh better than Jameson
Again....technically you are right. Murphy is probably a much better 3pt shooter then Jamison AS LONG as he's shooting at the top of the key ( shhh....don't tell Danny Ferry that ). IMHO, unless Jamison is a somewhat decent 3pt shooter ( which I think he is ) and can hit the 3pt shot...he will meet their needs. I don't get the sense the Murphy is a much better Stretch Forward then Jamison is.


Jameson likes to post up and that would clog the lane for LBJ
We all know Murphy cant/wont post up.
To me...this is a disadvantage against Murphy. If all the Cavs want is for a Stretch Forward to stand at the 3pt line and hit 3pt shots....then both Murphy and Jamison can fill that need. But if the Cavs also wanted the option to have one that can post up....Jamison ( not Murphy ) can fill that need. Simply put...Jamison is more versatile then Murphy is.

Unless Murphy is a far superior 3pt shooter then Jamison is and all the Cavs are looking for is a spot up shooter....then I'd prefer him over Murphy. The only thing that the Pacers have going for them ( over the Wizards ) is that he has a shorter and smaller contract. Fortunately, adding $18 mil in guaranteed $$$ isn't something to cough at. Combine that $18 mil consideration along with asking for less and it could make the Cavs change their mind in favor of the Pacers.

judicata
01-22-2010, 04:28 PM
I want to see Murphy go to the Cavs just to see him try to steal a board from Shaq!

90'sNBARocked
01-22-2010, 05:01 PM
Unless Murphy is a far superior 3pt shooter then Jamison is and all the Cavs are looking for is a spot up shooter....then I'd prefer him over Murphy. The only thing that the Pacers have going for them ( over the Wizards ) is that he has a shorter and smaller contract. Fortunately, adding $18 mil in guaranteed $$$ isn't something to cough at. Combine that $18 mil consideration along with asking for less and it could make the Cavs change their mind in favor of the Pacers.


All good points , and I think you harped on the one key advantage : Length of contract. Murphy, if he doesnt work out this year becomes a valuable trade asset, whereas Jamesons' contract is much longer I believe

CableKC
01-22-2010, 05:46 PM
All good points , and I think you harped on the one key advantage : Length of contract. Murphy, if he doesnt work out this year becomes a valuable trade asset, whereas Jamesons' contract is much longer I believe
1 Year longer with more total $$$ owed at $18 mil. The obvious question to the Cavs is if Jamison is worth it to take on $18 mil in additional guaranteed $$$ while giving up some combination of $$$, Draft Pick and/or Hickson.

That's why I'm saying that I'd settle for $$$ and Big Z....we have to come in with a way better offer then what the Wizards are asking for.

Sparhawk
01-22-2010, 10:14 PM
1 Year longer with more total $$$ owed at $18 mil. The obvious question to the Cavs is if Jamison is worth it to take on $18 mil in additional guaranteed $$$ while giving up some combination of $$$, Draft Pick and/or Hickson.

That's why I'm saying that I'd settle for $$$ and Big Z....we have to come in with a way better offer then what the Wizards are asking for.

I'd take Z, cash and a pick. The Cavs can keep Hickson. I don't see why the Pacers would want him anyhow. But the Pacers need to make moves for more than just cap space. Picks can be used to draft or be packaged for something else.

Mr. Sobchak
01-22-2010, 10:49 PM
I'd take Z, cash and a pick. The Cavs can keep Hickson. I don't see why the Pacers would want him anyhow. But the Pacers need to make moves for more than just cap space. Picks can be used to draft or be packaged for something else.

He's young, talented, and plays a position of need...Why on earth wouldn't we want him? :confused: We need talent just as much as cap space.

ksuttonjr76
01-23-2010, 12:17 AM
troy and tj for shaq works. we then buyout shaq so he can go back to cleveland, i.e. a similar arrangement as would be done in a troy for z trade.

not sure why the cavs would want tj though, other than as the price we set for getting troy.

Not that Mo Williams is injuried, this trade does have the possibility of happening.

* Crossing fingers *

sportfireman
01-23-2010, 12:26 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64222/20100123/obrien_sees_tj_ford_as_a_trade_chip/



Pacers point guard T.J. Ford hasn't played since Dec. 30 as he remains third on the depth chart behind Earl Watson and rookie A.J. Price.

Indiana coach Jim O'Brien believes that the team could look to move Ford prior to next month's trade deadline.

"I don't think there's any doubt," O'Brien said.

"He's a quality point guard. He could really help another franchise. It's not my decision to say what Larry decides, but certainly, I think we'd be open-minded."

vnzla81
01-23-2010, 12:50 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64222/20100123/obrien_sees_tj_ford_as_a_trade_chip/

Lest hope this happen :pray:

sportfireman
01-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Lest hope this happen :pray:

i like tj and nothing against him just wrong coach, wrong player it happens but i wish it would happen for the simple fact if he's not playing we're paying star type money to someone not playing at all and not becausse of injury. we could be giving that 8 mil to someone contribting and us possibly winning.

odeez
01-23-2010, 01:26 PM
We can only hope and pray something goes through that helps us get closer to more cap space and talent.

vnzla81
01-23-2010, 01:27 PM
i like tj and nothing against him just wrong coach, wrong player it happens but i wish it would happen for the simple fact if he's not playing we're paying star type money to someone not playing at all and not becausse of injury. we could be giving that 8 mil to someone contribting and us possibly winning.

I agree, I also think that he could be use better as a 2 than a 1, he could be a nice scorer coming of the bench.

sportfireman
01-23-2010, 01:44 PM
I agree, I also think that he could be use better as a 2 than a 1, he could be a nice scorer coming of the bench.

if he's not controlling the ball and as a 2 he wouldn't he'd be great...i guess kind of like a jason terry type role. but he's dominated the ball for so long at the 1 i think that would be a very difficult transition.

cinotimz
01-23-2010, 08:12 PM
Not that Mo Williams is injuried, this trade does have the possibility of happening.

* Crossing fingers *

I think its much more likely Diener could be included in the deal. Dont see Cleveland having any interest in TJ. But Diener could possibly fit their need of a stop gap while Williams and West are out.

Anthem
01-24-2010, 09:07 PM
I think its much more likely Diener could be included in the deal. Dont see Cleveland having any interest in TJ. But Diener could possibly fit their need of a stop gap while Williams and West are out.
Forget "interest." Even if they wanted him, they don't have a way to match salaries.

cinotimz
01-24-2010, 09:24 PM
Forget "interest." Even if they wanted him, they don't have a way to match salaries.

Much in the same fashion the Murphy for Z trade has been bantered about, I think TJ could probably be added to Murphy and substitute Shaqs deal for Z's. I have a feeling the result might be the same. But again I dont think they have an interest in TJ.

Anthem
01-24-2010, 10:22 PM
Much in the same fashion the Murphy for Z trade has been bantered about, I think TJ could probably be added to Murphy and substitute Shaqs deal for Z's. I have a feeling the result might be the same. But again I dont think they have an interest in TJ.
Aren't they kinda interested in keeping Shaq? I didn't figure he'd be on the table.

vnzla81
01-24-2010, 10:27 PM
Aren't they kinda interested in keeping Shaq? I didn't figure he'd be on the table.

is just to make the trade work, he will go back to cleveland in a month(buy out)

wintermute
01-24-2010, 10:52 PM
Forget "interest." Even if they wanted him, they don't have a way to match salaries.

sign and trade of wally to a 3 year deal (only first year guaranteed) also works, i think. similar to what mavs did with keith van horn in jason kidd trade.

vnzla81
01-25-2010, 01:00 PM
here is more info about Murphy, this guy answer got me thinking:confused:
he answered my question but I don't understand what is he saying about "inside help" the guy is Troy Murphy:confused:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=735



troy murphy in indy:
are the pacers trading me this year and to were?
Bill Ingram:

They're working on it . . .Portland could sure use some inside help . . .

ksuttonjr76
01-25-2010, 01:33 PM
Aren't they kinda interested in keeping Shaq? I didn't figure he'd be on the table.

It's been my impression that whoever we get (Shaq or Big Z), Indiana was going to buyout the remaining time of the contract, then Cleveland was going to resign the player after a month.