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View Full Version : AJ Price has me looking for a 2 or a 4.



McKeyFan
01-20-2010, 09:57 AM
I am pretty pleased with what I see from AJ Price.

There's been talk about Devon Harris, but a pg like AJ gets me much more excited. Harris (and TJ Ford) types can score well off the dribble, but pg's who see the floor and distribute the ball where it needs to go, AND can score when called upon, that's more special.

Sure, it's too early to declare AJ our future starter, but it's getting closer for me.

And what that means, is that I am no longer thinking about a point guard for a major player acquisition in the future (This summer? Next summer?)

Now I am thinking about a shooting guard, and, even more so, that power forward that is a combination of Dale Davis and Al Jefferson.

I like Tyler, and he would be a great sub for this All-Star type player we are supposed to acquire soon, but we need a dominant (thank you grammarians), defensive, solid scoring machine down low to accompany Roy.

So, for the future, I am comfortable with Danny, Roy, and now AJ.

I'm on the lookout for a great 4 or 2 to take this team to the next level.

Unclebuck
01-20-2010, 10:04 AM
I'm not ready to declare Price anything more than a capable backup point guard. So many young players come into the NBA look promising and then they don't work out. Some just cannot physically hold up to playing 82 games per season, plus playoffs, preseason - some peoples bodies just aren't capable of doing that - it is rather common, injuries occur, they break down, or perhaps they are just better in about 20-25 minutes per game. At this point we don't have the slightest idea if Price is capable of withstanding the rigors of the NBA.

You say, well sure, how did we know Chris Paul was able to until he actually went through a season or two - good point, but Paul was so obviously talanted that you took a chance and just hoped for the best. Price is not so obviously talented. IMO he's going to have to maximize his talents to become a starting point guard.

That is just step one. We then have to see how he handles pressure of the big games, how he shoots in the clutch, is he a leader.

My point isn't to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, but rather just trying to suggest it takes for a player like Price 2 seasons (not sure this season will count, depends on how many minutes he plays this season) for us to have an idea. Same thing applies to Roy

Right now, the only player I would say is a keeper is Granger

McKeyFan
01-20-2010, 10:13 AM
I'm not ready to declare Price anything more than a capable backup point guard. So many young players come into the NBA look promising and then they don't work out. Some just cannot physically hold up to playing 82 games per season, plus playoffs, preseason - some peoples bodies just aren't capable of doing that - it is rather common, injuries occur, they break down, or perhaps they are just better in about 20-25 minutes per game. At this point we don't have the slightest idea if Price is capable of withstanding the rigors of the NBA.

You say, well sure, how did we know Chris Paul was able to until he actually went through a season or two - good point, but Paul was so obviously talanted that you took a chance and just hoped for the best. Price is not so obviously talented. IMO he's going to have to maximize his talents to become a starting point guard.

That is just step one. We then have to see how he handles pressure of the big games, how he shoots in the clutch, is he a leader.

My point isn't to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, but rather just trying to suggest it takes for a player like Price 2 seasons (not sure this season will count, depends on how many minutes he plays this season) for us to have an idea. Same thing applies to Roy

Right now, the only player I would say is a keeper is Granger

I agree. It's too early to declare anything.

But message boards are about inklings. And my inkling is that Price is a keeper.

He sees the floor well. He distributes the ball well.

He penetrates very well and can either score or distribute.

His perimeter shooting is a bit streaky, but he is certainly good enough to make opponents pay for a double team.

Is he clutch? I'm guessing he definitely is. You can see his confidence oozing (unlike a shooting guard recently drafted by the Pacers) and he apparently demonstrated some pretty clutch play in the NCAA tourney.

If you ask me, he's only three good offensive players away from averaging nearly ten assists a game.

count55
01-20-2010, 10:34 AM
Mario Chalmers started 82 games last season and averaged over 32 minutes a night. This season, he started his first 22 games, but has come off the bench for his last 18. He's only averaging 19 minutes a night in January, and has had as many games with fewer than 15 minutes (4) as more than 20 minutes.

He's been replaced in the starting line up by journeymen Carlos Arroyo and Rafer Alston.

chrisjacobs7
01-20-2010, 10:38 AM
If we cannot get John Wall, then I would be okay having Price as our starting PG of the future from what I've seen so far this season.

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 10:44 AM
I'm not ready to declare Price anything more than a capable backup point guard. So many young players come into the NBA look promising and then they don't work out. Some just cannot physically hold up to playing 82 games per season, plus playoffs, preseason - some peoples bodies just aren't capable of doing that - it is rather common, injuries occur, they break down, or perhaps they are just better in about 20-25 minutes per game. At this point we don't have the slightest idea if Price is capable of withstanding the rigors of the NBA.

You say, well sure, how did we know Chris Paul was able to until he actually went through a season or two - good point, but Paul was so obviously talanted that you took a chance and just hoped for the best. Price is not so obviously talented. IMO he's going to have to maximize his talents to become a starting point guard.

That is just step one. We then have to see how he handles pressure of the big games, how he shoots in the clutch, is he a leader.

My point isn't to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, but rather just trying to suggest it takes for a player like Price 2 seasons (not sure this season will count, depends on how many minutes he plays this season) for us to have an idea. Same thing applies to Roy

Right now, the only player I would say is a keeper is Granger

I tend to also throw Roy in that category

I still say try and deal with Minny and offer anyone but Granger to get Big Al

Speed
01-20-2010, 11:06 AM
I like what AJs doing, I love how Roy's progressed and continues to do so. No need to decide anything on either of them for awhile really. This team has to draft the best player available for the forseeable future regardless of position, imo. If it's a small forward in this next draft, get him.

It's a luxury of sucking really, you don't have to move either of them or sign either of them to huge contracts to keep them. Let them simmer a bit and see what you got, imho. The Pacers aren't close or one player away, so no need to move them while they develop.

Who knows who will be on the team in two years, who's coaching, who's the GM, really. Young guys who are performing well now are something to watch closely, but I agree, give them a couple of years.

Unless someone is trading you based on their max projection then you have to think about it, otherwise, let them grow.

90'sNBARocked
01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
I like what AJs doing, I love how Roy's progressed and continues to do so. No need to decide anything on either of them for awhile really. This team has to draft the best player available for the forseeable future regardless of position, imo. If it's a small forward in this next draft, get him.

It's a luxury of sucking really, you don't have to move either of them or sign either of them to huge contracts to keep them. Let them simmer a bit and see what you got, imho. The Pacers aren't close or one player away, so no need to move them while they develop.

Who knows who will be on the team in two years, who's coaching, who's the GM, really. Young guys who are performing well now are something to watch closely, but I agree, give them a couple of years.

Unless someone is trading you based on their max projection then you have to think about it, otherwise, let them grow.

Undeniably without question!!

McKeyFan
01-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Mario Chalmers started 82 games last season and averaged over 32 minutes a night. This season, he started his first 22 games, but has come off the bench for his last 18. He's only averaging 19 minutes a night in January, and has had as many games with fewer than 15 minutes (4) as more than 20 minutes.

He's been replaced in the starting line up by journeymen Carlos Arroyo and Rafer Alston.

Here's a second round success story. Get out a little for some sunshine.

3. Mark Price, 1986, #25 (Dallas)
Career Averages: 15.2 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 6.7 apg, .472 FG %
Dubbed “too slow” and “too short” from the NBA game, Price was taken by Dallas with the first pick in the second round and traded on draft day to Cleveland, where he spent nine seasons and helped turn the Cavs into an Eastern Conference powerhouse. He was one of the best shooters in league history, and during the 1988-89 season, Price was one of only three players, along with Larry Bird and Reggie Miller, to shoot at least 50% from the field, 40% from the 3-point line and 90% from the free throw line. In fact, he’s the all-time career free throw leader at 90.4%. Price made the All-Star game four times, was selected to the All-NBA 3rd Team three times and the All-NBA 1st Team once, and averaged 15+ points and 7+ assists in seven consecutive seasons. Not bad for a guy that was deemed “too slow” and “too short” for the first round.
Bonus points for…being a six-foot white guy who regularly took over games…having his number (not just his jersey) retired at Georgia Tech, his alma mater.

lil lebowsky
01-20-2010, 11:20 AM
Even though it's disappointing to go thru another winter of losing basketball, it can be entertaining to watch a team being built. While i like most of the Pacers, there are a handful of players that i would keep.

I think we all assume that Troy Murphy, Jeff Foster, Mike Dunleavey, and T.J. Ford will not be here for the forseeable future. Whether some of them go this season or next season, the Pacers will not build around them. I can assume that Travis Diener will be gone also.

So right now the Pacers will have back and try to build around: Granger, Hibbert, Hansborough, Price, Dahntay Jones, and Rush. That's a pretty good combination of size and skill. I think that those are our best defensive players, and are youngest players, that should all continue to improve, with the exception of Danny. With that group of players, the Pacers will need to add shooting, frontcourt defense, and p.g. depth. So hopefully that can be addressed this offseason thru the the draft or a possible trade. We really can draft the best player available and continue to build.

Sookie
01-20-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm clearly a Price fan, and I do think he's talanted enough to be a starting PG.

He's a really well rounded player, which I like. He's also mentally tough, was an incredible leader and clutch player in college..all of the intangibles, which is how I ended up a fan. I don't think you lose that stuff.

But I agree with Buck. To me, questions about Price are his body? Jeez, he was never healthy in college..sure they were "freak" problems, but at the same time, Price never got a single healthy season. And that it's far too early to tell. But I also think, that people are afraid to say things like "perhaps he is PG of the future" because of where he was drafted. Which I think is a mistake.

CableKC
01-20-2010, 12:44 PM
For now, I'm with UB on this. I'd have to wait and see how he does for a season before I consider whether he should be our future Starting PG as opposed to our backup PG. At the very least.....we found our Backup PG....the only question is whether he's good enough to be a Starter or not. The way I look at it....he has until the summer of 2011 to convince me that he's Starting material or not. Between now and the summer of 2011, we'll have 2 drafts to see if we can find a better PG or not....while guaging whether Tony Parker would be willing to come to a Team like the Pacers.

kellogg
01-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Agree with UncleBuck...waaay to soon to anoint AJ 'the one' before he's really done much fo anything (see 2008 election). The other thing to note is that a bad team (which at 14-27 I think the Pacers qualify as) can make a marginal player look better than he is. For instance, there have been times Dahntay has been great, but his numbers in some games have been a lot better than he ever got in Denver last year.

But in this year's draft, I definitely hope Bird just drafts the best player, period...and NOT according to 'need'.

Daniel33
01-20-2010, 01:09 PM
I think AJ is the best point guard we had since tinsley, I don't count Jarret into this category, he wasn't a first pass guard imo.
AJ can be a decent backup, as several of you guys mentioned before it is too early to tell if he can be a starter.
I've watched yesterdays game and the only guys who were fun to watch were Roy, Dahntay (in the last quarter), Brandon and AJ.
He jacked up some threes too early but he was still willing to give up the ball and look out for better opportunities than just score himself.
A decision can't be made yet, maybe O'Brien will increase AJ's minutes and we can have some more fun while losing and get a good draft pick.

LoneGranger33
01-20-2010, 02:02 PM
Here's a second round success story. Get out a little for some sunshine.

3. Mark Price, 1986, #25 (Dallas)
Career Averages: 15.2 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 6.7 apg, .472 FG %
Dubbed “too slow” and “too short” from the NBA game, Price was taken by Dallas with the first pick in the second round and traded on draft day to Cleveland, where he spent nine seasons and helped turn the Cavs into an Eastern Conference powerhouse...

I believe it has already been established that Travis Diener is the one comparable to Mark Price.

cdash
01-20-2010, 02:11 PM
I just don't get this AJ Price lovefest, I really don't. Is he good for a late second round pick? Without question. Does the team play better with him on the floor than they do TJ Ford? Yeah, I'd have to say so. Is he the long-term answer at point guard? Can he be the starting point guard on a 50+ win team? That, I seriously doubt. I'd love to be wrong, believe me, but I wouldn't be planning my future around the guy, that's for sure.

Speed
01-20-2010, 02:41 PM
I think the answer on AJ is.... "We don't know"

I don't think anything is guaranteed, but I also don't think anything is completely off the table either. That's a pretty positive thing for a guy who you basically got for getting rid of a mistake/problem.

IndyPacer
01-20-2010, 05:09 PM
I just don't get this AJ Price lovefest, I really don't. Is he good for a late second round pick? Without question. Does the team play better with him on the floor than they do TJ Ford? Yeah, I'd have to say so. Is he the long-term answer at point guard? Can he be the starting point guard on a 50+ win team? That, I seriously doubt. I'd love to be wrong, believe me, but I wouldn't be planning my future around the guy, that's for sure.

I'm excited about AJ's promising play because I like the type of PG he appears to be, PG has obviously been a prominent area of need for the team, and because getting a really solid PG in the rotation with a 2nd rounder is as though we had two 1st round picks. Tyler is admittedly not turning the game of basketball on its ear with his play, but in his defense he has vertigo issues and still looks like he'll be a very solid first big off the bench at least. It's always nice to have a hustle player with a strong drive to learn and improve.

I'd agree that it's way too early to call off the search for upgrading the PG position. Even if AJ blossoms into a starter, I'd add an even better starter if one became available. It's not like AJ couldn't still be a great asset to the team if he was behind let's say an All-Star or potential All-Star caliber starting PG. I'm just happy the PG has improved by acquiring him.

Sookie
01-20-2010, 05:49 PM
I just don't get this AJ Price lovefest, I really don't. Is he good for a late second round pick? Without question. Does the team play better with him on the floor than they do TJ Ford? Yeah, I'd have to say so. Is he the long-term answer at point guard? Can he be the starting point guard on a 50+ win team? That, I seriously doubt. I'd love to be wrong, believe me, but I wouldn't be planning my future around the guy, that's for sure.

Since getting his Chance, he's averaged 10.6 points, 3.4 assists, with a 2.26 to 1 assist to turnover ratio..in about 20 minutes of play.

Johnny Flynn in comparison, is averaging 14.2 points and 4 assists in 30+ minutes of play. I'd say AJ's numbers fair pretty well considering minutes played..to a guy expected to be a franchise starter. In fact, With the exception of Jennings and Evans, AJ's numbers compare well to the rest of the point guards in the draft.

Besides, this is a message board. AJ is giving people something to be excited about. With Rush and Roy being on and off again, and Tyler being hurt, it's nice for Fans to have a pleasant suprise like that. He's a kid that almost single handidly won a game for the Pacers, and then hit the biggest shot of the night, the next game. Of course fans are going to be excited about a player like that, especially when that player was aquired for basically nothing..and was someone most people thought wouldn't make the team, then wouldn't play at all.

That being said, obviously he's young, a rookie..we don't know what'll happen with him. But he's shown more potential than Tyler, and enough confidence to maybe give some to Rush ;) There's nothing wrong with fans hoping he ends up being a major steal. So "we don't know" I think..is the correct approach. Because..well we don't. But I'd think it's a definite positive that Larry Bird said, "at worst, he's a great backup." And I also think a lot of the skepticism from some people is coming from where he was drafted. Had he been in the first round, there would be an even bigger "lovefest." And I'm sure the point is "well he WAS second round" Well of course he was. With fifty point guards in the draft, and after the first couple, there isn't that much of a variable in talent..you don't take the one with a previous knee injury, an almost fatal illness, and an instance of legal trouble.

On the other side. I hope people don't have really high hopes for an all star point guard. Those are really rare. If you want the most probable ways to build a team..all star SG, is really the best way to do it. Because there are much better chances at getting those. Heck, a team's lucky if they get a "good" point guard.

jhondog28
01-20-2010, 05:52 PM
I would take Devin harris in a heartbeat over AJ Price.

QuickRelease
01-20-2010, 08:46 PM
Mario Chalmers started 82 games last season and averaged over 32 minutes a night. This season, he started his first 22 games, but has come off the bench for his last 18. He's only averaging 19 minutes a night in January, and has had as many games with fewer than 15 minutes (4) as more than 20 minutes.

He's been replaced in the starting line up by journeymen Carlos Arroyo and Rafer Alston.

I think Chalmers starting was more of a necessity than anything. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year. But they had little in the way of options.

sportfireman
01-20-2010, 09:54 PM
I think AJ has done a very good job to be a rookie.......... especially in JOB'S system where a pg can't be a pg. But when Roy and Rush produced like this their rookie years they were deemed our starters for the future.......why not AJ? My opinion AJ's showing just as much promise as our other young guys.

Remember he's a rookie still.......2nd round pick that should have been a first. The talents there, let him win or lose the starting job on his own before we take it from him.

Bricklayer
01-21-2010, 01:42 AM
Because of where I live, I don't get to see too many Pacer games. Can anyone comment on his defense? If he's a long term answer, he's got to be able to disrupt the other team's offense at least a little bit...

cinotimz
01-21-2010, 02:02 AM
I cant help but think most of the excitement surrounding AJ is more of a reflection on our PG personnel over the past decade or so versus his actual talents/skills.

d_c
01-21-2010, 02:17 AM
I cant help but think most of the excitement surrounding AJ is more of a reflection on our PG personnel over the past decade or so versus his actual talents/skills.

I think what he's shown is definitely a positive.

To see if he's a legit guy in the long run, you just have to watch him play more minutes and in particular, more minutes against non-backups.

There are a lot of young guys in the league who show flashes in limited minutes and fans always want to see more. In many of these cases, coaches bring them in only in select matchups. They deliberately limit their minutes to situations and matchups that give the young guy a chance to look good.

That's all fine and well. The real test comes when you play bigger minutes against starters in non-garbage time minutes with opposing players and coaches better knowing you tendencies, strengths and weaknesses.

IndyProdigy
01-21-2010, 02:48 AM
why is it that pacer teams always have a non athletic point guard that can see the floor well? ala...mark jackson, tinsley, workman, best, price...i wont count ford. heck even our free agents...anthony "beetlejuice" johnson, flip murry, earl watson.

count55
01-21-2010, 09:08 AM
I think what he's shown is definitely a positive.

To see if he's a legit guy in the long run, you just have to watch him play more minutes and in particular, more minutes against non-backups.

There are a lot of young guys in the league who show flashes in limited minutes and fans always want to see more. In many of these cases, coaches bring them in only in select matchups. They deliberately limit their minutes to situations and matchups that give the young guy a chance to look good.

That's all fine and well. The real test comes when you play bigger minutes against starters in non-garbage time minutes with opposing players and coaches better knowing you tendencies, strengths and weaknesses.

I think it's more of a case of putting these players in positions where they can't do much damage to their own team, as opposed to any motivation to give the young guy a chance to look good.

BillS
01-21-2010, 10:22 AM
why is it that pacer teams always have a non athletic point guard that can see the floor well? ala...mark jackson, tinsley, workman, best, price...i wont count ford. heck even our free agents...anthony "beetlejuice" johnson, flip murry, earl watson.

I don't think Best saw the floor well, except maybe the floor underneath his dribble...

count55
01-21-2010, 10:28 AM
I don't think Best saw the floor well, except maybe the floor underneath his dribble...

Well, the only guys on that list that actually saw the floor well were Jackson and Tinsley.

BillS
01-21-2010, 10:31 AM
Well, the only guys on that list that actually saw the floor well were Jackson and Tinsley.

I always thought Workman was a pretty good distributor, just not particularly quick.

count55
01-21-2010, 10:36 AM
I always thought Workman was a pretty good distributor, just not particularly quick.

I always think of Workman as a poor man's Jarrett Jack, but it's been a long time, and my view may be clouded by the fact that he's a ****ty ref.

bphil
01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't feel like there's a single position on this team that's locked up right now. LB needs to get the best of whatever talent is available, regardless of position.

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2010, 12:57 PM
Price does several things at a quality level, but not 100% of the time. He makes passes; both the choice/vision and the execution technique are high quality. He makes moves with the ball that are smart, reliable moves to get quality spacing.

For example, last night he showed a good hesitation move that got him free to the lane. As he came to the rim a big showed. Rather than force a shot then or bail out, he kept going to get in close which appeared to be a mistake, then at the last second he wrapped a perfect pass to Troy (IIRC) and drew the foul as well.

That's what I like about him. He has a plan usually, and it's not just "get past this guy and see what happens".

What I liked about Price, Roy and Rush in college was that they showed a sense of knowing how things would unfold based on their choices. The issue on the Pacers for the is "what if their teammates don't also react and take advantage of what they created".

People think Rush is soft for passing, but all I see from him is a guy passing out of tough shots trying to take advantage of defensive reactions. What happens is that this dies shortly after he passes it away as the next guy just reduces it back to a one on one play.

You can play that way in the NBA, that's what a Wade or Rose are doing very well, but it's not the only way to play offense. Right now the team is kinda stuck halfway between each style, and I think even Price, Rush and Roy are feeling pressure to be more one on one at times along with jump shooters.


Anyway, I like Watson and I think Diener is a good protect the ball PG, I think Ford is quick. But none of them are making moves that appear to be motivated by an overall plan beyond a basic PnR.

Price is not quicker, taller, doesn't have killer hops, doesn't have killer handles. He just has a great understanding of the sport, something I think goes way too overlooked anymore (in football too).

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2010, 01:00 PM
I don't think Best saw the floor well, except maybe the floor underneath his dribble...
Best as a non-athletic PG that saw the floor well. Um, was this Larry Best, Todd Best?

Travis Best was a quck, athletic PG with a pretty good jumper and off-balance shot that had blinders on. Travis used to miss the Reggie baseline curl, seriously. Everyone in the arena saw it coming but him, until it was too late of course.

Were it not for his scoring heroics he would not be fondly remembered in Indy.

ChicagoJ
01-21-2010, 02:57 PM
Travis was a SG in a 5'10" body. I would have enjoyed Travis's game if he were 6'5" (and quick for a 6'5" guy) playing off the ball.

He had no PG skills whatsoever. That's why the Travis-Jalen combo worked somewhat while the other Travis -Player B combos failed - Jalen could handle the ball offensively but play off the ball defensively and Travis could do the opposite.

Sookie
01-21-2010, 05:11 PM
Price is not quicker, taller, doesn't have killer hops, doesn't have killer handles. He just has a great understanding of the sport, something I think goes way too overlooked anymore (in football too).

Although I do think he's faster than given credit for, It's not suprising he has a great understanding of the sport. Both parents played basketball in college...and I'm pretty sure I've read that they were teaching him "proper layup techniques" the second he could walk. :laugh:

McKeyFan
01-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Although I do think he's faster than given credit for, It's not suprising he has a great understanding of the sport. Both parents played basketball in college...and I'm pretty sure I've read that they were teaching him "proper layup techniques" the second he could walk. :laugh:

Well, then they should have taught him good shooting form. He's got to much off hand on the ball. Probably why he is a streak shooter but not a really consistent shooter. One of his only weaknesses, imo.

Lance George
01-21-2010, 07:20 PM
Price has looked somewhat promising, sure, but I'd like to set our long-term standards higher.

Sookie
01-21-2010, 08:00 PM
Well, then they should have taught him good shooting form. He's got to much off hand on the ball. Probably why he is a streak shooter but not a really consistent shooter. One of his only weaknesses, imo.

A lot of guards from Long Island shoot that way. Both hands on the ball, kind of slow release, a lot of jump in their shot. I'm not sure why exactly.

Granted, it's better than the bronx guards that can't shoot period.

vnzla81
01-21-2010, 08:07 PM
I'll be looking for 2,4,1,5,6,7,8,9 and 10's we need every position, I would also going to start to look for a new coach.