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McKeyFan
01-14-2010, 05:26 PM
After discussing the possible Murphy for Big Z trade, later in the podcast (posted in the Cav's Beat Writer thread), Brian Windhorst says the following:


"[Troy Murphy's] relationship with the coaching staff is not very good."

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/brian_windhorst_talks_cavalier_14.html

First, I'm not sure where he gets his information. Secondly, Murph seems like the last guy who would be upset with the coaches. Dahntay, Roy, Rush, I would understand.

But it seems we've heard rumblings of this before.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 05:36 PM
After discussing the possible Murphy for Big Z trade, later in the podcast (posted in the Cav's Beat Writer thread), Brian Windhorst says the following:



http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/brian_windhorst_talks_cavalier_14.html

First, I'm not sure where he gets his information. Secondly, Murph seems like the last guy who would be upset with the coaches. Dahntay, Roy, Rush, I would understand.

But it seems we've heard rumblings of this before.

Kind of wierd that he didnt seem to have aproblem with him last year, check this out


http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2010/1/13/1248144/balling-in-the-cornfields-suns-vs


W: What thoughts do you have on Roy Hibbert and how he may pose a problem for the Suns with his size and inside presence?

T: Roy Hibbert has made some nice strides in his second year, really improving his offensive post game. There are many times when the Pacers would be better off slowing things down and running some plays through Roy in the post, which may be a good option tonight. Foul trouble remains an issue for Hibbert at times so his game has been on a bit of a roller coaster. Also, he seems to play much better when not on the court with Troy Murphy. Since Murph's return last week his production has gone down a tick.

ding ding ding!!

Doug
01-14-2010, 05:40 PM
Well, maybe the coaching staff is always harping on him to play better defense?

Other than that, I don't know.

PacerDude
01-14-2010, 05:42 PM
Well, everybody's production goes down a bit when Murphy plays. It's simply a different (not saying better) offense when he's out there. I don't see any connection that's due to any personality clashes. Just that Murphy likes to stand outside the arc, shooting 3's on offense and leave his man so he can go grab a rebound on defense.

Hope Troy likes Cleveland. Or Denver. Or wherever.

Trophy
01-14-2010, 06:23 PM
Well, everybody's production goes down a bit when Murphy plays. It's simply a different (not saying better) offense when he's out there. I don't see any connection that's due to any personality clashes. Just that Murphy likes to stand outside the arc, shooting 3's on offense and leave his man so he can go grab a rebound on defense.

Hope Troy likes Cleveland. Or Denver. Or wherever.

When the ball is shot by the opposing team, what else is he supposed to do? Of course any defensive rebounder leaves their man to get the rebound once the ball is shot. He boxes out any other opposing player to get the rebound.

I can understand getting mad about him not playing post defense when the ball is in play, but there's no more use in defending once the opposing player shoots the ball.

PacerDude
01-14-2010, 06:36 PM
When the ball is shot by the opposing team, what else is he supposed to do? Of course any defensive rebounder leaves their man to get the rebound once the ball is shot.Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me for omitting the obvious. But all too often, he's nowhere near his guy when the shot is taken. But we digress ...........

Box out ?? Eh, he's not too much on that either, but the legions on this board have already been divided. Pro-Troy and Anti-Troy. We all are what we are and nothing will change those opinions.

Carry on folks .....................

MyFavMartin
01-14-2010, 08:57 PM
Some might contend he blocks out the other Pacers to steal their rebounds.

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 08:59 PM
Some might contend he blocks out the other Pacers to steal their rebounds.

:laugh: is so true.............:laugh:

Naptown_Seth
01-14-2010, 09:06 PM
:laugh: is so true.............:laugh:
In the PHX game I saw Rush actually stop and give one up to Troy, one that only Pacers were contending.

Money? Threats? Fear of being knocked to the floor?

Brad8888
01-14-2010, 09:12 PM
In the PHX game I saw Rush actually stop and give one up to Troy, one that only Pacers were contending.

Money? Threats? Fear of being knocked to the floor?

Players "knowing their roles" ;).

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 09:12 PM
In the PHX game I saw Rush actually stop and give one up to Troy, one that only Pacers were contending.

Money? Threats? Fear of being knocked to the floor?

all the above, maybe Rush wants him outta here?;)................by the way I remember TJ doing the same thing many times.

Will Galen
01-14-2010, 09:18 PM
After discussing the possible Murphy for Big Z trade, later in the podcast (posted in the Cav's Beat Writer thread), Brian Windhorst says the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Windhorst http://www.pacersdigest.com/images/buttons/PDbuttons//viewpost.gif (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?p=945004#post945004)
"[Troy Murphy's] relationship with the coaching staff is not very good."


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/brian_windhorst_talks_cavalier_14.html

First, I'm not sure where he gets his information. Secondly, Murph seems like the last guy who would be upset with the coaches. Dahntay, Roy, Rush, I would understand.

But it seems we've heard rumblings of this before.

I think this is nonsense. My understanding is Troy is upset with is the direction of the team. He's not considered a young core piece, and Bird is building toward two years from now, while Troy wants to win now.

Put in that type situation most all NBA players would be unhappy with their teams direction and it would be understandable.

Hicks
01-14-2010, 09:18 PM
Some might contend he blocks out the other Pacers to steal their rebounds.

Well, what I tend to notice is one or two Pacers have good position and are either boxing out or otherwise stationary waiting for the ball as it goes right to them, and then he swoops in and gets it first.

McKeyFan
01-14-2010, 09:26 PM
I think this is nonsense. My understanding is Troy is upset with is the direction of the team. He's not considered a young core piece, and Bird is building toward two years from now, while Troy wants to win now.

Put in that type situation most all NBA players would be unhappy with their teams direction and it would be understandable.

That makes more sense.

However, the Cav's beat writer specifically said "coaching staff," not front office or management. Maybe he got it wrong.

Anthem
01-14-2010, 10:50 PM
I think this is nonsense. My understanding is Troy is upset with is the direction of the team. He's not considered a young core piece, and Bird is building toward two years from now, while Troy wants to win now.

Put in that type situation most all NBA players would be unhappy with their teams direction and it would be understandable.
Well Bird has basically flat-out said that Troy's not part of the future. That wouldn't motivate me if I was in his shoes.

Plus the amount of time he's spent on losing teams... I'm guessing the guy's pretty hungry to get some wins.

Bball
01-14-2010, 11:36 PM
Has Bird really said Murphy is not part of the future? I know everyone has speculated that and tried reading between the lines... but I'm not sure I've ever actually heard Bird say that. Maybe he has... It's hard separating actual 'official' statements from assumed plans.

As far as Murphy not getting along with the coach... Maybe Murphy sees the same things we see. Maybe he reads the comments and agrees. Maybe he thinks he could and should be used differently and could make more of a positive team contribution. Maybe he'd like to have a team defense that helped cover for him. Maybe he doesn't want to shoot a bazillion 3's and 'stretch the defense'.

I've said this a thousand times: Coaching matters. A player under one coach might look like a totally different player with a different coach. The same goes for a team. It's all how you use the pieces you have.

Anyway... Is it really so hard to believe that Troy would think- "I'm doing exactly what the coach wants and we're losing... And fans are hating me for doing what everyone but the coach acknowledges isn't working" ?

pwee31
01-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Wasn't there a chat or thread earlier that mentioned Murphy not getting along with the coaching staff?

I want to say it was right around the time Tyler was returning from his shin splints.. I think shortly after.

Perhaps he doesn't like being taken out of the game at all and wants to play 48 minutes.

Maybe he feels he should be on the floor in crunch time, when at times he hasn't been.

Perhaps he blames his weak 2nd halfs on the coaching staff not getting him enough looks or touches?

Who knows, but I wouldn't just sweep it under the rug seeing that it's been said a couple times now

Pacersfan46
01-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Well, what I tend to notice is one or two Pacers have good position and are either boxing out or otherwise stationary waiting for the ball as it goes right to them, and then he swoops in and gets it first.

I've seen people say that, but when you're looking up at a rebound, you don't know who the players are around you when you go to get it. It's happened to me before, fighting someone to get the rebounds and in the end realizing it's my own damn teammate.

I'm surprised people see this as an issue. I'd rather that, than someone who doesn't go after them.

-- Steve --

Will Galen
01-15-2010, 12:02 AM
Who knows, but I wouldn't just sweep it under the rug seeing that it's been said a couple times now

I wouldn't read anything into it being said a couple times. It's the Internet, someone starts a rumor and it's repeated several times.

McKeyFan
01-15-2010, 08:05 AM
I wouldn't read anything into it being said a couple times. It's the Internet, someone starts a rumor and it's repeated several times.

This isn't just "the internet." It's the Cav's beat writer.

It would be like Mike Wells saying it.

HC
01-15-2010, 08:17 AM
Well if it is true then why didn't Mike Wells report it? He would have know well before this guy.

McKeyFan
01-15-2010, 08:43 AM
Well if it is true then why didn't Mike Wells report it? He would have know well before this guy.

I think it's more likely for the Cav's beat writer to mention it than Wells.

Wells is a lot better than Monteith, but that job involves a lot of politics, a lot of avoiding certain negative topics.

Unclebuck
01-15-2010, 08:44 AM
Well, maybe the coaching staff is always harping on him to play better defense?

Other than that, I don't know.

Interesting that you say that. I still remember a game a couple of weeks ago - I forget which one but it was a home where O'Brien and I think it was Harter (in his postgame chat with Stacy) raved about Murphy's defense and explained how his excellent defense was a huge key for them that game. I thought it was rather odd the way they raved about it. Seemed a little too much to me, seemed more like a message to Murphy

owl
01-15-2010, 09:05 AM
In the PHX game I saw Rush actually stop and give one up to Troy, one that only Pacers were contending.

Money? Threats? Fear of being knocked to the floor?


Generally speaking I think that makes sense. I would not read too much into that.
Between a big and small player let the big get the rebound.

PacerDude
01-15-2010, 09:22 AM
.......... O'Brien and I think it was Harter (in his postgame chat with Stacy) raved about Murphy's defense and explained how his excellent defense was a huge key for them that game.We're they talking in green ??

Anthem
01-15-2010, 09:28 AM
Has Bird really said Murphy is not part of the future? I know everyone has speculated that and tried reading between the lines...
Well, not by name. But he's talked about "Danny and the young guys" and then talked about moving big expiring contracts for better players. If Murph doesn't feel some heat from that, he's not paying attention.

bphil
01-15-2010, 09:34 AM
Well, maybe the coaching staff is always harping on him to play <s>better</s> defense?

Other than that, I don't know.

Just wanted to clean that up a bit. Carry on.

ChicagoJ
01-15-2010, 11:22 AM
This isn't just "the internet." It's the Cav's beat writer.

It would be like Mike Wells saying it.

Didn't you mean:

This isn't just "the internet." It's the Cav's beat writer repeating something he saw on the internet.

It would be like Mike Wells saying it after reading something about it on the internet.

???

Hicks
01-15-2010, 11:27 AM
Interesting that you say that. I still remember a game a couple of weeks ago - I forget which one but it was a home where O'Brien and I think it was Harter (in his postgame chat with Stacy) raved about Murphy's defense and explained how his excellent defense was a huge key for them that game. I thought it was rather odd the way they raved about it. Seemed a little too much to me, seemed more like a message to Murphy

Everyone forgets this, but remember that in 07-08, Troy actually got benched and out of the rotation (I think it went that far?) for a stretch, and I believe O'Brien cited defense as a reason (or was it effort? can anyone recall?).

Bball
01-15-2010, 11:31 AM
Well if it is true then why didn't Mike Wells report it? He would have know well before this guy.


Would Wells report that with a name attached or just report it as 'chemistry problems' in general (which he has done)?

I think it's likely the only way Wells would report that with the name is if he was given permission by Murphy (as Artest did with his comments back in the day). Otherwise it would just be generic comments and drop ins with us left to guess who he means....

If he reported the dirt to the point of naming names he'd end up not getting any info outside of the post game remarks and press releases.

If a player goes 'on record' then all bets are off... But how often will a player go on record with dirt like they don't get along with the coach and say "Yeah, print it... word for word... use my name"

That doesn't mean Wells wouldn't mention it to Kravitz or another beat writer for another team though... and it doesn't mean he wouldn't make a vague reference to it (which arguably we might've already seen).

No, Monteith would never have mentioned it in any form. If Monteith was still the beat writer and something like this came out he'd be writing a piece to tell us how untrue it is and that it's all unicorns and lollipops.

McKeyFan
01-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Didn't you mean:

This isn't just "the internet." It's the Cav's beat writer repeating something he saw on the internet.

It would be like Mike Wells saying it after reading something about it on the internet.

???

No, not at all.

You have to figure that a beat writer, who travels with the team, and has access to players and coaches, and probably talks regularly with our beat writer, has much more reliable information than some blogger who has no access and no relationships.

He may have gotten it "from the internet." But he has a much higher likelihood of getting from a reliable source, does he not?

Naptown_Seth
01-15-2010, 12:48 PM
I've seen people say that, but when you're looking up at a rebound, you don't know who the players are around you when you go to get it. It's happened to me before, fighting someone to get the rebounds and in the end realizing it's my own damn teammate.

I'm surprised people see this as an issue. I'd rather that, than someone who doesn't go after them.

-- Steve --
This is true for both Troy and Jeff, really all the guys. BUT, and this is a major point IMO, a good rebounder does know the lie of the land at that point, partially because he's concerned with the threat of opponents stealing boards. You need to know who has what position and who is losing position and where the free lanes are.

And then on top of that Troy has a habit of coming into an already established rebound position, which is not the same as looking up at the ball and not seeing guys. Troy doesn't have great hops and tends to rebound more from the 1-2 step jump anyway.

Rush saw Troy and realized it as he came flying in. But couldn't Troy be doing the same thing when he comes into a Pacer that's already got it clean?

As for "I prefer my big to get it", no one prefers that. What's the first thing the big does after he gets it? Pass to a ball handler. You need to get the ball up court right away, so why waste the pass when the guy you might pass to is already there.

Now, if it's Kevin Love then you let him have it because he is a great outlet passer, ditto Rodman. But if it's Price vs Troy, why not just let Price have it since he can make the outlet better or dribble it up better. Troy knocking him or Rush off the ball only to hand it back to one of them just slows things down.


Conspiracy - JOB wants Troy to rebound on defense so he can trail to the top of the arc for the return pass. He wants him to be the furthest from getting up court and wants the guards out ahead of him to take the first offensive attack with Troy as the 2nd option if they get penetration but are turned away.

If that's the case then those other players need to clear out on those rebounds and get up court and let Troy do his job. This is a possibility, though I'm not sold on it myself.

ChicagoJ
01-15-2010, 01:29 PM
No, not at all.

You have to figure that a beat writer, who travels with the team, and has access to players and coaches, and probably talks regularly with our beat writer, has much more reliable information than some blogger who has no access and no relationships.

He may have gotten it "from the internet." But he has a much higher likelihood of getting from a reliable source, does he not?

How are the "source" rules for a blog or podcast versus legit journalism? Did he have to run everything past his editor/ producer first? I have no idea.

Sounds like he's just talking about a rumor he might have heard somewhere. Or it could be a Sam-Smith style rumor... make up whatever the hell you want and then claim you heard it from "unnamed sources."

Bball
01-15-2010, 02:08 PM
No, not at all.

You have to figure that a beat writer, who travels with the team, and has access to players and coaches, and probably talks regularly with our beat writer, has much more reliable information than some blogger who has no access and no relationships.

He may have gotten it "from the internet." But he has a much higher likelihood of getting from a reliable source, does he not?

To further strengthen your point it might have more legs coming from a beat writer with sources and contacts-

He might've initially gotten it from the internet and then ran it by Wells or someone close to the organization who could have verified it....
...or not...

Anthem
01-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Now, if it's Kevin Love then you let him have it because he is a great outlet passer, ditto Rodman.
Or maybe, in the future, Roy. He had a great outlet the other night.

Speed
01-15-2010, 02:31 PM
I don't know if this has been said, but if Murphy doesn't like the coaching staff, I sure hope he stays quiet. If he validates that idea, it could really trigger other teams to think that the Pacers HAVE to unload him and the low ball offers will come in hard and heavy.

If Troy validates this report somehow, it hurts his own cause to get moved, imo.

BillS
01-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Conspiracy - JOB wants Troy to rebound on defense so he can trail to the top of the arc for the return pass. He wants him to be the furthest from getting up court and wants the guards out ahead of him to take the first offensive attack with Troy as the 2nd option if they get penetration but are turned away.

If that's the case then those other players need to clear out on those rebounds and get up court and let Troy do his job. This is a possibility, though I'm not sold on it myself.

How is that a "conspiracy"? Isn't that something we call "tactics"?