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90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 03:37 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=709

Omar in Evansville, Indiana:
How impressive has Indiana's wins been the last 2 games? And also can u see pacers making playoffs with Granger back?

Joel Brigham:
Despite everything the Pacers are still only four games out of the playoff picture, so with Granger healthy and the benching of T.J. Ford apparently the epitome of "addition by subtraction," it's possible. But why would fans want the Pacers to make the playoffs? They do this every year, where they win just enough games to lose all prayer at a decent lottery pick, and if they do make into the postseason it's as a very low seed and they lose in the first round. There's no way to get better when you're stuck in a cycle like that, and let's be honest--how perfect would John Wall be for Indiana? I'm just sayin'...


Im just saying I agree wholeheartedly with that staement and I am praying desperatley the PAcers do not keep playing the "Were only "X" ammount of games away from the 8th seed.

I pray we do not go into next year with the same exact roster and coach. I know you dont change for the sake of change but at this time I would welcome ANY change

BornReady
01-14-2010, 03:49 PM
maybe because fans are tired of watching pacers lose? or want to have respect for this franchise?
and this has been beaten down to a pulp already, but our chances of getting wall arent and have never been stellar..

Ozwalt72
01-14-2010, 03:51 PM
I just feel that if we were to make the playoffs...that experience would help inspire our young guys to continue to improve. It would help change the current culture of losing the pacers have. Wall MAY be special, but in the best of circumstances its no better than a 25% chance that we would land him.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 03:57 PM
I just feel that if we were to make the playoffs...that experience would help inspire our young guys to continue to improve. It would help change the current culture of losing the pacers have. Wall MAY be special, but in the best of circumstances its no better than a 25% chance that we would land him.

It would be nice to make the playoffs yes, but a first round sweep does nothing for the future

HC
01-14-2010, 04:05 PM
I would not tank for the sake of a player. IMO you might as well throw pride and dignity out the window. I am sure many of you would be fine with it, but I for one am not.

IndySDExport
01-14-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm so confused why people think this year's lottery is the key to our future success. The chances of our getting John Wall are slim to none.

I have to ask, other than John Wall are there individuals in this upcoming draft who will make us a team to be reckoned with?

Can we not develop our young players now; teach them to fight regardless of your playoff outlooks. And then, try to get that next key piece through free agency in 2011 when Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, and Tinsley all come off the books.

BillS
01-14-2010, 04:06 PM
It would be nice to make the playoffs yes, but a first round sweep does nothing for the future

So many people say that, but why not? If it isn't your final goal, getting there has to be one of the steps, and I don't know of many teams who got to the higher levels without losing at the lower ones.

At minimum it means 4 more games against elite competition, 2 of those before a larger home town crowd than usual.

Going 4-78 while still selling tickets, getting the first pick and then going 72-10 while sweeping to a championship the next year ain't going to happen and shouldn't be part of anyone's "plan".

BornReady
01-14-2010, 04:08 PM
I'm so confused why people think this year's lottery is the key to our future success. The chances of our getting John Wall are slim to none.

I have to ask, other than John Wall are there individuals in this upcoming draft who will make us a team to be reckoned with?

Can we not develop our young players now; teach them to fight regardless of your playoff outlooks. And then, try to get that next key piece through free agency in 2011 when Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, and Tinsley all come off the books.

actually yes, this is deemed to be a star studded draft
players that thought about going to the draft last year that would have gone mid 1st round are projected to be late 1st rounders now. i myself am very high on turner :D

IndySDExport
01-14-2010, 04:09 PM
It would be nice to make the playoffs yes, but a first round sweep does nothing for the future

I disagree. Why not build a culture of making the playoffs so the team knows a little about what they're fighting for? Stay in the lottery and you might just breed the mentality that we'll never be good enough to make the playoffs.

chrisjacobs7
01-14-2010, 04:20 PM
maybe because fans are tired of watching pacers lose? or want to have respect for this franchise?
and this has been beaten down to a pulp already, but our chances of getting wall arent and have never been stellar..

I'm not tired of losing, I'm tired of mediocrity. That is why I want John Wall, give up 1 season and draft a difference maker, or try to win and draft another role player and continue on in our mediocrity.

sportfireman
01-14-2010, 04:30 PM
I'm not tired of losing, I'm tired of mediocrity. That is why I want John Wall, give up 1 season and draft a difference maker, or try to win and draft another role player and continue on in our mediocrity.

how are you certain John Wall will be what you want him to be, who says IF we're in the lotto we'll even get JWall? I want a team to play hard EVERY game and display heart and desire to win EVERY game and if they lose after that then at least they tried to win. And at the end of the day if a good pick comes from that then hooray..... if not oh well that's life "you win some you lose some"

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 04:33 PM
I would not tank for the sake of a player. IMO you might as well throw pride and dignity out the window. I am sure many of you would be fine with it, but I for one am not.

I think "tank" is a poor choice of words the media throws out there. I agree and would not want us to "tank"

What I would like is a lineup of Hibert, Tyler or McBob, Granger, Jones, Price

I hope we play competitive and lose every game by 1pt, wining a few big games in between

I hope we end up with a pick 1-3

This is not about John Wall but recognizing the only way to improve the team on the short term is to get a high draft pick and hope it was the right one

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 04:35 PM
So many people say that, but why not? If it isn't your final goal, getting there has to be one of the steps, and I don't know of many teams who got to the higher levels without losing at the lower ones.

At minimum it means 4 more games against elite competition, 2 of those before a larger home town crowd than usual.

Going 4-78 while still selling tickets, getting the first pick and then going 72-10 while sweeping to a championship the next year ain't going to happen and shouldn't be part of anyone's "plan".

Respectfully, and exspecially under this regime, I disagree with you

having a top 1-3 draft pick , to me, is a heck of a lot more important, and better for the future, then a first round sweep in the playoffs that leads to another late lottery selection when were over the cap

IUfan4life
01-14-2010, 04:36 PM
I'm not tired of losing, I'm tired of mediocrity. That is why I want John Wall, give up 1 season and draft a difference maker, or try to win and draft another role player and continue on in our mediocrity.

seriously you and everyone else advocating the Pacers lose to get the great john wall need to GTFO take your negative thoughts elsewhere, theres an entire half a season to play. talk about the draft after the season

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 04:37 PM
actually yes, this is deemed to be a star studded draft
players that thought about going to the draft last year that would have gone mid 1st round are projected to be late 1st rounders now. i myself am very high on turner :D

Turner is definitley the most polished, and I agree he is a stud

The only thing I worry about is does he have that "Brandon Rush syndrome" of not being agressive enough

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 04:39 PM
I disagree. Why not build a culture of making the playoffs so the team knows a little about what they're fighting for? Stay in the lottery and you might just breed the mentality that we'll never be good enough to make the playoffs.

I understand your point, and it does make sense but.............

Unless you truly believe that Jones, Rush, Tyler, McBob will significantly improve with time then the only way to improve is through the acquisition of a top player in the draft

IndySDExport
01-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Respectfully, and exspecially under this regime, I disagree with you

having a top 1-3 draft pick , to me, is a heck of a lot more important, and better for the future, then a first round sweep in the playoffs that leads to another late lottery selection when were over the cap

Here's my problem.

1. With teams like NJ, Minnesota, Golden State, Philly, Washington... Nothing guarantees a top 3 draft pick. Not even tanking.

2. We won't be over the cap in 2011.


My 2010 NBA draft predictions (David Stern saw it in a dream narrated by Patrick Ewing)

With the 1st pick in the draft, the New York Knickerbockers select John Wall. 2 minutes later... The New York Knicks have just signed Chris Bosh and Lebron James.

Peck
01-14-2010, 04:54 PM
So many people say that, but why not? If it isn't your final goal, getting there has to be one of the steps, and I don't know of many teams who got to the higher levels without losing at the lower ones.

At minimum it means 4 more games against elite competition, 2 of those before a larger home town crowd than usual.

Going 4-78 while still selling tickets, getting the first pick and then going 72-10 while sweeping to a championship the next year ain't going to happen and shouldn't be part of anyone's "plan".

Not necessarily.

Remember if we are our first round opponet will likely be the Cavs. The fieldhouse will be at best half and half and at worst we will have a repeat of the 80's/90's Celtic games. Been there, done that and frankly it is no fun at all.

As to the question at hand.

It all depends on how we make the playoffs to me.

If it is because we get hot or at least warm and storm into the playoffs with a second half of the season push then by all means.

However I have zero interest in backing our way into the playoffs and being there because we suck less than other teams that are smart enough not to suck the least.

While I would like to see Danny get meaningfull playoff experiance I just don't care to see a parade of Jeff and Troy while Roy sits on the bench learning by watching.:rolleyes:

Unclebuck
01-14-2010, 05:00 PM
I generally think any team under .500 should not make the plaoffs.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 05:03 PM
Not necessarily.

Remember if we are our first round opponet will likely be the Cavs. The fieldhouse will be at best half and half and at worst we will have a repeat of the 80's/90's Celtic games. Been there, done that and frankly it is no fun at all.

As to the question at hand.

It all depends on how we make the playoffs to me.

If it is because we get hot or at least warm and storm into the playoffs with a second half of the season push then by all means.

However I have zero interest in backing our way into the playoffs and being there because we suck less than other teams that are smart enough not to suck the least.

While I would like to see Danny get meaningfull playoff experiance I just don't care to see a parade of Jeff and Troy while Roy sits on the bench learning by watching.:rolleyes:

Thats my whole point!

duke dynamite
01-14-2010, 05:08 PM
While I would like to see Danny get meaningfull playoff experiance I just don't care to see a parade of Jeff and Troy while Roy sits on the bench learning by watching.:rolleyes:
I see it if we make the playoffs, a major part of the reason why is that Roy had a major part to do with it. Without exemplary play from him, they won't be able to make it.

BillS
01-14-2010, 05:09 PM
What I would like is a lineup of Hibert, Tyler or McBob, Granger, Jones, Price

Then you'd better be prepared to get rid of anyone else with skill and experience that you deem too old or too much at risk of helping us win a game, otherwise you've created a locker room disaster.

Murphy's a given that you want to get rid of and TJ's in exile, but do you really put Dunleavy coming off the bench behind Rush?

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 05:10 PM
I see it if we make the playoffs, a major part of the reason why is that Roy had a major part to do with it. Without exemplary play from him, they won't be able to make it.

I agree, as well as the play of Dunleavy and Jones as well

Lord Helmet
01-14-2010, 05:13 PM
God I get tired of this, we're not going to get Wall. He's going to be number 1 pick or at least top 5, I'd say and we're not going to get him.

I'd like to see us sneak in, but Peck makes a good point, I don't want a bunch of LeBron fans celebrating in our house to where 6 years ago they didn't even know Cleveland had a basketball team.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 05:15 PM
God I get tired of this, we're not going to get Wall. He's going to be number 1 pick or at least top 5, I'd say and we're not going to get him.

I'd like to see us sneak in, but Peck makes a good point, I don't want a bunch of LeBron fans celebrating in our house to where 6 years ago they didn't even know Cleveland had a basketball team.

Again , its not about Wall or a certain individual

its about which is better for the franchise going forward

barely slide into the 8th spot and a possible sweep or

get a high draft pick

I vote for the latter

IndySDExport
01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
Again , its not about Wall or a certain individual

its about which is better for the franchise going forward

barely slide into the 8th spot and a possible sweep or

get a high draft pick

I vote for the latter


I understand this reasoning completely, I'm just hesitant to put my hopes on it. Not only do you have to hope the balls bounce your way, but then you have to hope that Larry knows what to do with it.

I look at last years class. It would have been great to get Brandon Jennings (at #10!) or Tyreke Evans at #4. But with a higher pick, do we trust Bird not to pick Hasheem Thabeet. The basketball gods shined down on the Clippers and gave them Blake Griffen who promptly pulled a Greg Oden.

And you never know, we got Danny outside the lottery.

judicata
01-14-2010, 05:48 PM
Again , its not about Wall or a certain individual

its about which is better for the franchise going forward

barely slide into the 8th spot and a possible sweep or

get a high draft pick

I vote for the latter

You guys act like getting into the playoffs nets no benefits over tanking, and that the draft pick is the only real difference.

In my opinion, its much more important teaching the 6-8 guys who are a part of your future how to win and compete, especially in the post season. You can get John Wall, but unless he is a very, very special player he's going to be surrounded by a bunch of dudes who don't know how to win and have never seen the playoffs, and it won't matter.

Losing begets losing. Smart GMs manage their team with much more than just the draft, and value winning and game experience for more than their lottery impacts.

I want a team that has that experience and toughness so when John Wall comes in the draft, or Chris Paul in a trade, or Tony Parker in free agency arrive, we have our centerpieces surrounded by a solid structure and not ashes. Getting swept in the playoffs gets us closer to that, if not John Wall.

Lord Helmet
01-14-2010, 06:01 PM
Exactly, at some point it's going to be beneficial to have at least a little bit of playoff experience.

NapTonius Monk
01-14-2010, 06:05 PM
It would be nice to make the playoffs yes, but a first round sweep does nothing for the future

I'd think making the playoffs would do wonders for a group of players who haven't been there before. We're not going from lottery to finals in 60 seconds. The playoff intensity and atmosphere is a good experience for these guys in building a winning environment. By the way, I like John Wall, but I don't think the franchise will further crumble if we don't get him. I'd rather do the best we can with what we have, whatever that may be, and continue to build the right way.

Blink
01-14-2010, 06:09 PM
Sad how the team never recovered from getting swept in '90 and '92. And they topped that off with an embarrassing 3-1 loss in '93.

Alabama-Redneck
01-14-2010, 06:21 PM
Again , its not about Wall or a certain individual

its about which is better for the franchise going forward

barely slide into the 8th spot and a possible sweep or

get a high draft pick


If it is about losing to get a higher draft pick, just who is the draft pick for?

If the Pacers continue to lose enough games to get a 1-3 pick, then the franchise will be in another city and that's why I ask "who is the pick for"

:cool:

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Then you'd better be prepared to get rid of anyone else with skill and experience that you deem too old or too much at risk of helping us win a game, otherwise you've created a locker room disaster.

Murphy's a given that you want to get rid of and TJ's in exile, but do you really put Dunleavy coming off the bench behind Rush?

Good point about Duns

I dont know if Obie has him come off the bench for medical reasons or because he likes the perverbial "spark" off the bench

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:14 PM
I understand this reasoning completely, I'm just hesitant to put my hopes on it. Not only do you have to hope the balls bounce your way, but then you have to hope that Larry knows what to do with it.

I look at last years class. It would have been great to get Brandon Jennings (at #10!) or Tyreke Evans at #4. But with a higher pick, do we trust Bird not to pick Hasheem Thabeet. The basketball gods shined down on the Clippers and gave them Blake Griffen who promptly pulled a Greg Oden.

And you never know, we got Danny outside the lottery.

Good counter point

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:16 PM
You guys act like getting into the playoffs nets no benefits over tanking, and that the draft pick is the only real difference.

In my opinion, its much more important teaching the 6-8 guys who are a part of your future how to win and compete, especially in the post season. You can get John Wall, but unless he is a very, very special player he's going to be surrounded by a bunch of dudes who don't know how to win and have never seen the playoffs, and it won't matter.

Losing begets losing. Smart GMs manage their team with much more than just the draft, and value winning and game experience for more than their lottery impacts.

I want a team that has that experience and toughness so when John Wall comes in the draft, or Chris Paul in a trade, or Tony Parker in free agency arrive, we have our centerpieces surrounded by a solid structure and not ashes. Getting swept in the playoffs gets us closer to that, if not John Wall.

To some degree thats true (think Clippers/Kings etc.)
However where would San Antonio be if they didnt "tank" the season that led to Tim Duncan?

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:18 PM
If it is about losing to get a higher draft pick, just who is the draft pick for?

If the Pacers continue to lose enough games to get a 1-3 pick, then the franchise will be in another city and that's why I ask "who is the pick for"

:cool:

Do you think its that cut and dry?

judicata
01-14-2010, 07:18 PM
To some degree thats true (think Clippers/Kings etc.)
However where would San Antonio be if they didnt "tank" the season that led to Tim Duncan?

They may not have had the championships, but the Spurs without Duncan are still a pretty damned good team. Parker, G, Jefferson, Blair. I think the Spurs got lucky with Duncan, and that the rest of their roster proves my point rather than defeats it.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:19 PM
Sad how the team never recovered from getting swept in '90 and '92. And they topped that off with an embarrassing 3-1 loss in '93.

Thats because they added talent and hired the top coach in the game at the time Larry Brown

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:20 PM
They may not have had the championships, but the Spurs without Duncan are still a pretty damned good team. Parker, G, Jefferson, Blair. I think the Spurs got lucky with Duncan, and that the rest of their roster proves my point rather than defeats it.



My fault I should have clarified that had the not gotten Duncan then they would have been stuck in mediocrity longer because the only reason that happened is David Robinson only played in 7 games that year

The next year he was healthy, and even without Duncan they would have been marginal at least

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 07:23 PM
I'd think making the playoffs would do wonders for a group of players who haven't been there before. We're not going from lottery to finals in 60 seconds. The playoff intensity and atmosphere is a good experience for these guys in building a winning environment. By the way, I like John Wall, but I don't think the franchise will further crumble if we don't get him. I'd rather do the best we can with what we have, whatever that may be, and continue to build the right way.

But that is the point my friend.

We are not building. Our record hasd been below 500 for three years now and we will have a worse record than last year. That is not building its trying to stay alive

If the Pacers were a fortune 500 company their stock would be plummeting and the boaard of directors (owners) would probably demmand sweeping changes

Alabama-Redneck
01-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Do you think its that cut and dry?

I think there are meeting going on right now about what to do about the Pacers financially and I'm sure attendance is one of the main topics.

If attendance continue to drop, moving the team will be discussed and losing enough games to move into the top 3 spots will cause a bigger drop in attendance.

:cool:

chrisjacobs7
01-14-2010, 07:42 PM
You guys act like getting into the playoffs nets no benefits over tanking, and that the draft pick is the only real difference.

In my opinion, its much more important teaching the 6-8 guys who are a part of your future how to win and compete, especially in the post season. You can get John Wall, but unless he is a very, very special player he's going to be surrounded by a bunch of dudes who don't know how to win and have never seen the playoffs, and it won't matter.

Losing begets losing. Smart GMs manage their team with much more than just the draft, and value winning and game experience for more than their lottery impacts.

I want a team that has that experience and toughness so when John Wall comes in the draft, or Chris Paul in a trade, or Tony Parker in free agency arrive, we have our centerpieces surrounded by a solid structure and not ashes. Getting swept in the playoffs gets us closer to that, if not John Wall.

You're assuming Bird is smart enough to do that... I don't put that much trust in him.

tadscout
01-14-2010, 07:51 PM
Thats because they added talent and hired the top coach in the game at the time Larry Brown

It's easier to add talent through FA and trades as a playoff team than it is as a constant lottery team...

Along much easier to get a better coach as a playoff team moving upwards... do you think many coaches are going to take the risk D'antoni took again?

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 10:45 PM
I disagree. Why not build a culture of making the playoffs so the team knows a little about what they're fighting for? Stay in the lottery and you might just breed the mentality that we'll never be good enough to make the playoffs.


Stay in the lottery mentality?? When was the last time the Pacers were even in the lottery? They have had a mid-level pick since forever. Let's get rid of the "we want to make the playoffs with a losing record, so we can draft a mid-teen player to continue to be mediocre mentality."

NO ONE likes to win more than I do. Capitalizing on a poor season to make the team better is distasteful to some, but if you are at the bottom anyway then make the best use possible of it to give you the best opportunity for the future.

When is the last time a 8th seed team with a losing record won a championship?? I'd rather get the players experience in the playoffs as a winner than a habitual loser. I'll wagger the owners of the Spurs with their multi-championships have no problem of having gotten Robinson and Duncan in the lottery.

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 10:48 PM
if not oh well that's life "you win some you lose some"


And the Pacers are doing their share of losing with mediocre draft picks.

tadscout
01-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Stay in the lottery mentality?? When was the last time the Pacers were even in the lottery? They have had a mid-level pick since forever. Let's get rid of the "we want to make the playoffs with a losing record, so we can draft a mid-teen player to continue to be mediocre mentality."


:hmm: The past two years... remember missing the playoffs = lottery team.

(Edit: actually three, Atlanta had our lottery pick another year huh...)

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 10:56 PM
[QUOTE=IUfan4life;945131]

GTFO /QUOTE]


Since I never went to IU nor am I a fan, could you with all your knowledge tell me what those initials stand for. I want to be able to understand the wisdom of your post since I believe it is referring to me.

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 11:02 PM
I understand this reasoning completely, I'm just hesitant to put my hopes on it. Not only do you have to hope the balls bounce your way, but then you have to hope that Larry knows what to do with it.

I look at last years class. It would have been great to get Brandon Jennings (at #10!) or Tyreke Evans at #4. But with a higher pick, do we trust Bird not to pick Hasheem Thabeet.


I have to agree about Bird doing the picking. Scares the dickins out of me, but I'd rather he'd be picking there than 13-17.

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 11:12 PM
If it is about losing to get a higher draft pick, just who is the draft pick for?

If the Pacers continue to lose enough games to get a 1-3 pick, then the franchise will be in another city and that's why I ask "who is the pick for"

:cool:


So you are saying losing in the second half of the season is going to get the Pacers in another city? If the Pacers finances are that bad, then how would winning 23 games with a record of 36-46 for a 3rd straight year save the team from moving?

Justin Tyme
01-14-2010, 11:16 PM
:hmm: The past two years... remember missing the playoffs = lottery team.

(Edit: actually three, Atlanta had our lottery pick another year huh...)


You are correct. I'm my mind I always think of the lottery as 1-10 and not 1-14. My comment was in regards to 1-10.

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 11:16 PM
You guys act like getting into the playoffs nets no benefits over tanking, and that the draft pick is the only real difference.

In my opinion, its much more important teaching the 6-8 guys who are a part of your future how to win and compete, especially in the post season. You can get John Wall, but unless he is a very, very special player he's going to be surrounded by a bunch of dudes who don't know how to win and have never seen the playoffs, and it won't matter.

Losing begets losing. Smart GMs manage their team with much more than just the draft, and value winning and game experience for more than their lottery impacts.

I want a team that has that experience and toughness so when John Wall comes in the draft, or Chris Paul in a trade, or Tony Parker in free agency arrive, we have our centerpieces surrounded by a solid structure and not ashes. Getting swept in the playoffs gets us closer to that, if not John Wall.

the pacers are not going to the playoff count on that and if there is a 22% chance that we could get Wall, the porcentage to get either Tony Parker or Chris Paul is more like 99.9% that you wont get those guys, I don't know about you, but I rather have a 22% chance to either get Wall or a higher porcentage to get a good player with a low draft pick.

Hicks
01-14-2010, 11:24 PM
seriously you and everyone else advocating the Pacers lose to get the great john wall need to GTFO take your negative thoughts elsewhere, theres an entire half a season to play. talk about the draft after the season

They can talk about John Wall as much as they wish and they don't need you or anyone for that matter telling them to "GTFO" for that reason.

Granville Fleming
01-15-2010, 01:04 AM
There are plenty of bad teams out there that have been at the top of the draft every year. I for one would rather us try to win while developing our young players.

Bball
01-15-2010, 05:55 AM
While I would like to see Danny get meaningfull playoff experiance I just don't care to see a parade of Jeff and Troy while Roy sits on the bench learning by watching.:rolleyes:

If we were to make the playoffs it would be (likely) as an 8th seed against the 1. Obviously the only way to overcome that type of talent discrepancy is to spread the defense at every position on the court and outscore the higher seeded team by shooting 3's to their 2's. No place for Hibbert unless he can learn to shoot the 3 with some consistency.

BPump33
01-15-2010, 10:15 AM
I misread the title of this thread and was thinking I don't know who this Thought guy is, but for Ford I'll take him........whoops. :D

BillS
01-15-2010, 12:48 PM
Good point about Duns

I dont know if Obie has him come off the bench for medical reasons or because he likes the perverbial "spark" off the bench

I like Dun coming off the bench as 6th man, what I mean is Dun not just coming off the bench but being the 8th or 9th man off the bench. That would be completely counter to his ability - if guys are somehow disgruntled that Josh doesn't get the time he deserves, how would they feel about Dun getting DNP-CD?

90'sNBARocked
01-15-2010, 01:51 PM
It's easier to add talent through FA and trades as a playoff team than it is as a constant lottery team...

Along much easier to get a better coach as a playoff team moving upwards... do you think many coaches are going to take the risk D'antoni took again?

good point,

however we are over the cap so we can not add a FA until 2012 at the earliest, so the only way to improve are

Through the draft
A trade
Developing our young players


I dont have enough faith that our young players (outside of Hibbert) will ever be good enough to compliment Danny. I think we have at least aCHANCE in getting a superstar with a high draft pick

If we end up with a 14th pick and first round sweep then we have little chance of gaining that superstar

just my opinion

Ozwalt72
01-15-2010, 02:22 PM
It would be nice to make the playoffs yes, but a first round sweep does nothing for the future

It shows the casual fan signs of progress. You don't think attendance would pick up next year if we were to make the playoffs this year?

And don't be so sure about a sweep. If you've seen this team in action at all, you know we'd steal one. :p

Ozwalt72
01-15-2010, 02:24 PM
They can talk about John Wall as much as they wish and they don't need you or anyone for that matter telling them to "GTFO" for that reason.

Agreed. If we were all sunshiners to the same degree what the heck would we have a forum for?

duke dynamite
01-15-2010, 02:35 PM
It shows the casual fan signs of progress. You don't think attendance would pick up next year if we were to make the playoffs this year?

And don't be so sure about a sweep. If you've seen this team in action at all, you know we'd steal one. :p
In all honesty, I don't think it will make a substantial difference.

Sure interest will rise, but until we are making waves in the playoffs or Lucas Oil Stadium were to get cited for more mouse droppings and are forced to close it won't happen.

Unclebuck
01-15-2010, 03:49 PM
If we were to make the playoffs it would be (likely) as an 8th seed against the 1. Obviously the only way to overcome that type of talent discrepancy is to spread the defense at every position on the court and outscore the higher seeded team by shooting 3's to their 2's. No place for Hibbert unless he can learn to shoot the 3 with some consistency.


That is probably the best and only chance the Pacers have to beat the number 1 seed. I don't know why you put it in Green The 3 point shot can be a great equalizer. When the Pacers were one of the top seeds the teams that I feared most were the teams that shot a lot of threes, because they were dangerous. Ultimately it doesn't matter really though because the better team wins 99% of the time.

90'sNBARocked
01-15-2010, 04:31 PM
It shows the casual fan signs of progress. You don't think attendance would pick up next year if we were to make the playoffs this year?

And don't be so sure about a sweep. If you've seen this team in action at all, you know we'd steal one. :p

Thats a fair point

I could see them possibly "stealing" one game but for the hardcore fan real progress to me would be jetsetting 2 of our albatross contracts and making a solid draft choice (wherever we pick)

Gamble1
01-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Superstars are found in the draft no doubt but look at the draft History of the Pacers.


1990
1. No pick
2. Antonio Davis, Texas-El Paso (45)
2. Ken Williams, Elizabeth City St. (46)
1991
1. Dale Davis, Clemson (13)
2. Sean Green, Iona (41)
1992
1. Malik Sealy, St. John’s (14)
2. No pick
1993
1. Scott Haskin, Oregon State (14)
2. Thomas Hill, Duke (39)
2. Spencer Dunkley, Delaware (51)
1994
1. Eric Piatkowski, Nebraska (15)
2. William Njoku, St. Mary’s (41)
2. Damon Bailey, Indiana (44)
1995
1. Travis Best, Georgia Tech (23)
2. Fred Hoiberg, Iowa State (52)
1996
1. Erick Dampier, Mississippi State (10)
2. Mark Pope, Kentucky (52)
<TABLE width=330 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD>
<SMALL>Austin Croshere is greeted by NBA Comissioner David Stern after being selected No. 12 overall in 1997. (NBAE/Getty Images)</SMALL>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
1997
1. Austin Croshere (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/austin_croshere/index.html), Providence (12)
2. No pick
1998
1. Al Harrington, St. Patrick’s H.S. (25)
2. No pick
1999
1. Vonteego Cummings, Pittsburgh (26)
2000
1. Primoz Brezec, Olympia Ljubljana (27)
(Slovenia)
2. Jaquay Walls, Colorado (56)
2001
1. No pick
2. Jamison Brewer, Auburn (41)
2002
1. Fred Jones (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/fred_jones/index.html), Oregon (14)
2. No pick
2003
1. No pick
2. James Jones, Miami (Fla.) (49)
2004
1. David Harrison (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_harrison/index.html), Colorado (29)
2. Rashad Wright, Georgia (59)
2005
1. Danny Granger (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/danny_granger/index.html), New Mexico (17)
2. Erazem Lorbek, Michigan State, (46)

TO me I think we can build through the draft but I would rather invest 20 million into a proven star player than think that a 5th to 13 pick is going to be the next big thing 3 years down the road.

Let me ask all of you this.... What do the odds favor? A top 5-10 pick or a 20 million dollar all star player that is ready now. Believe what you will but I can see another "star" in INDY 2 years from now but it won't be a result of a draft pick, IMO.

How I see it.. Supporting cast built by the draft and a additonal star via trade or cap relief = 2-5 seed in the East.

Justin Tyme
01-15-2010, 07:16 PM
Let me ask all of you this.... What do the odds favor? A top 5-10 pick or a 20 million dollar all star player that is ready now.


AND I don't see a 20 mil player in a Pacers uni in the next 2 years either. I don't see ownership paying that kind of salary.