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View Full Version : Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?



90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 12:10 PM
Let me start this off by saying this is in no way an attempt to bash Tyler but more so to get an understanding of why


I know we all have talked about Jim O'brien's notoriously inconsistent playing rotation. I think we can all agree that he has experimented more than a mad scientist. Last night , again, he went with a new starting line up that was not due to injury.

Why did Tyler start?

I have a real problem with this. I would like to know what Tyler has done to earna starting spot, if even for one game, but more importantly what has he done to earn consistent playing time?

What is he giving us that Mc Bob can't? I guarantee you if Mc Bob got the same playing time as Tyler, then his stats would be equal to if not greater than Tyler. Tyler says he is not concerned with his shooting? huh? Well I am. His shoting is atrocious and while it "might come around" that remains to be seen.

Mc Bob, on the other hand does not shot everytime he touches the ball. Is a better rebounder and does not get stuffed under the rim.

I thought playing time was EARNED, and I dont feel like Tyler has earned the right to receive more playing time than Mc Bob.

Again this is not a "bash Tyler thread" but really about what does Obie see in him? Please dont say the tired out "hustle and energy". Mc Bob, Hibbert, and D Jones, all bring the same "hustle and energy"

So the question is : Do you think that Pacer front office or Bird is pushing Obie to play Tyler? I am sure Birds ego is desperatley trying to make Tyler into a star so he looks like a draft genius.

I just struggle to find a solid reason why Tyler has earned playing time over Mc Bob


Look forward to your thoughts

sportfireman
01-14-2010, 12:20 PM
yes i think Bird has a big word in Tyler playing so much and starting, seeing as how JOB just said he doesn't like starting rooks he would rather go with vets. he said that in the interview before the Toronto game when asked about AJ starting.

http://my.nba.com/cms/107168/price_giving_em_something_to_talk_about


after reading again, maybe he meant having a vet start at the point.

but still i think Bird is pushing for Tyler.

BornReady
01-14-2010, 12:21 PM
pretty sure tyler is in here for our long term goal.
is mcbob? maybe, maybe not.

MillerTime
01-14-2010, 12:24 PM
I dont think management is pushing JOB to play anyone. We have a $8.5 million PG sitting at the end of the bench. If management wanted to force JOB to play someone it would be Ford to get his stock him and ship him out of Indy. To me it seems that JOB is playing the young guys more now (Price, Hibbert, and Hansbrough).

Hansbrough does play hard though. He gets out there and puts his body to the ropes, as does McBOB. I honestly dont know why JOB has benched McRoberts but then again I dont understand why JOB does about 75% of the things he does

Hicks
01-14-2010, 12:27 PM
Tyler was likely going to be the 1st big off the bench. When Jim decided at the last hour to pull Roy (for matchups), Tyler was next in line and (in theory) a better matchup than Roy.

I don't read much into it.

Bball
01-14-2010, 12:28 PM
I dont think management is pushing JOB to play anyone. We have a $8.5 million PG sitting at the end of the bench. If management wanted to force JOB to play someone it would be Ford to get his stock him and ship him out of Indy. To me it seems that JOB is playing the young guys more now (Price, Hibbert, and Hansbrough).

Hansbrough does play hard though. He gets out there and puts his body to the ropes, as does McBOB. I honestly dont know why JOB has benched McRoberts but then again I dont understand why JOB does about 75% of the things he does

Everyone in the NBA knows about TJ Ford. He's a veteran and has recently played and started. He's played enough to diminish concerns about his health. If anything, sitting him will allow his legend to grow and maybe get a nibble that way.

You play rooks and young guys (and vets coming off injuries) to showcase them. You don't need to showcase players that have been starting and playing... If you decide they are a poor fit for your team then you can just bench them and tell prospective teams they were a poor fit for your offense/defense.

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 12:29 PM
I think Tyler started the game because he is the best defensive PF in the team and JOB was trying to "match up with the other team"

Unclebuck
01-14-2010, 12:29 PM
I think of all the young players that maybe just maybe managment might be having to persuade O'Brien to play - Tyler is not one of them. Roy, maybe, Rush maybe, Price maybe, but not Tyler.

Jim has played Tyler as many minutes as the doctors and Tyler's health will allow.

Comparing Tyler and Josh is an insult to Tyler. Tyler does everything better - Only thing where maybe they are equal or Josh is better is passing.

And no, McBob, Roy and D.Jones do not bring the same hustle and energy. How many times do they knock down opposing players, how many times do they get under the skin of the opposing players. Tyler has a real skill of effort and playing hard every second, he is physical, aggressive - opponents are growing to dislike him and they have slowly started complaining about Tyler to the media.

McBob would probably not make the roster of 20-25 NBA teams IMO. Tyler would make every NBA team roster and would be if healthy in probably 26 or 27 of regular rotations.

IMO if Tyler has not had the shin injury (therefore not missed training camp and preseason) and then not had the ear infection (just when he was starting to play really well) he would be averaging around 30 minutes a game for the Pacers.

Compare Tyler to someone else besides Josh because that is an unfair comparison. Sort of like comparing Tyler to Dirk

Peck
01-14-2010, 12:32 PM
I don't have a lot of time but I will fire off a few brief thoughts here.

There is the possibilty that Bird has said that he would like Tyler to get as many min. as possible without dictating playing time. But I doubt it is dictated.

Tyler is just a better player than McRoberts, that is not a slap at McBob btw as I think he is getting the shaft here as well. But while they both have similar games they are physically very differant.

Tyler is a brute. Players hit the floor when they play vs. him and that is something that we haven't had on this team since..... well we all know who I'm talking about so there is no need to mention Dale Davis by name.;)

He is a scorer a far far far better than advertised rebounder and defender.

He is a good solid passer and up until recently had become somewhat reliable as a mid range shooter.

However Josh is a high flyer and can defend the rim, a skill that JOB just obviously does not place at a high value. Josh is also a supreme passer, I mean that the guy drops dimes like he grew up watching Mark Jackson.

Since pre-season he has added a little to the offensive arsenal and while his dunks were out of this world to watch I want to point out that not only were they entertaining he set those up. What I mean by that is he saw the back door was availble, found the seam and called the play.

What I'm saying is both should be seeing time on the floor. Tyler more so but Josh needs to be in there as well. If your asking me who should set so that they have a chance it wouldn't take long for you to guess who I would say.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
pretty sure tyler is in here for our long term goal.
is mcbob? maybe, maybe not.



Good point, but then why sign Josh to a 2 year guaranteed deal?

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Tyler was likely going to be the 1st big off the bench. When Jim decided at the last hour to pull Roy (for matchups), Tyler was next in line and (in theory) a better matchup than Roy.

I don't read much into it.

Duke

I understand that, but what has Tyler done to earn consistent playing time? Is he that much more productive than McBob? I know his starting last night was an aberation, but his consistent playing time is not

Do you think he has earned time?

CableKC
01-14-2010, 12:50 PM
As for Hansbrough starting yesterday night?

I'm guessing that the reason why Hansbrough started at center yesterday was because of matchup concerns with Stat and Frye. If Foster was available to play yesterday...I wouldn't have been surprised if Foster was in to Start against Stat
....with Murphy guarding Frye. But since it's been made clear that JO'B would prefer not to matchup unathletic Big Men ( like Hibbert and Murphy ) against more Atheletic and mobile Big Men ( like Stat and Bosh..in the past ) and Foster wasn't available....JO'B decided to go with the closest thing to Foster that we have now....Hansbrough. IMHO...on the spectrum of Big Men that we have....Hansbrough is inbetween the type of Players that Foster and Murphy are.....energy/hustle Big Man that can rebound/"mix it up inside" and can score....basically a similar type of Player to Foster but one that is a better scorer.

As to why Hansbrough has been getting a lot of "burn" under JO'B?

At the start of the season....I suspect it's a combination of Bird / FO pushing him to give him more minutes cuz they feel he needs to develop as soon as possible with JO'Bs preference to have as many Offensive scoring options on the floor. In order of preference, I'd suspect that if JO'B had to rank his Big Men in order of who he'd put on the floor....it'd be Murphy, Foster ( being a different case cuz he's a veteran ), Hibbert, Hansbrough, Solo then McRoberts. The reason Hansbrough plays ahead of Solo or McRoberts is cuz he clearly is a much better scorer....whereas Foster plays ahead of Hansbrough due to JO'Bs preference to have a solid veteran presense on the floor ( along with his defense, of course ). I'd guess that JO'B was really impressed by Hansbrough's scoring in the Summer League and ( likely with some prodding by the FO ) decided to give him some minutes to see how he would fit. Fortunately, Hansbrough was able to step up and show that he can be helpful on both ends of the floor. But I'd suspect that once Foster comes back from injury, that Hansbrough's minutes will be reduced where he would be the 4th or maybe even the 5th ( depending on Granger playing some backup PF minutes ) Big Man in the PF/C rotation.

Brad8888
01-14-2010, 12:59 PM
McRoberts is the more polished player compared to Hansbrough at this point. They both bring unique skills to the court. O'B (and more likely Bird) values Tyler getting to the line and bringing highly physical play more than having a player who facilitates offensive flow and provides better overall defense without dominating the ball and being a black hole.

McRoberts needs to be traded to just about any other team in the league who values basketball IQ, hustle, and hops and has a coach who teaches fundamentals. He is truly wasted here, and it is a shame.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:03 PM
I think Tyler started the game because he is the best defensive PF in the team and JOB was trying to "match up with the other team"

If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:08 PM
I think of all the young players that maybe just maybe managment might be having to persuade O'Brien to play - Tyler is not one of them. Roy, maybe, Rush maybe, Price maybe, but not Tyler.

Jim has played Tyler as many minutes as the doctors and Tyler's health will allow.

Comparing Tyler and Josh is an insult to Tyler. Tyler does everything better -




Only thing where maybe they are equal or Josh is better is passing.

And no, McBob, Roy and D.Jones do not bring the same hustle and energy.

I respectfuly disagree here. I think D Jones brings as much hustle as anyone on the team

How many times do they knock down opposing players, how many times do they get under the skin of the opposing players.




Tyler has a real skill of effort and playing hard every second, he is physical, aggressive



- opponents are growing to dislike him and they have slowly started complaining about Tyler to the media.

McBob would probably not make the roster of 20-25 NBA teams IMO. Tyler would make every NBA team roster and would be if healthy in probably 26 or 27 of regular rotations.

IMO if Tyler has not had the shin injury (therefore not missed training camp and preseason) and then not had the ear infection (just when he was starting to play really well) he would be averaging around 30 minutes a game for the Pacers.

Compare Tyler to someone else besides Josh because that is an unfair comparison. Sort of like comparing Tyler to Dirk



True, but this is because he plays like a football player on a basketball court.

Buck, Ia am sorry my friend but that is pure spoeculation. What or how could you back that up?


If he has a"skill set" why does he constantly get his shot blocked, and is shooting such a putrid percentage?

CableKC
01-14-2010, 01:10 PM
If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half
I really wouldn't read too much into this ( at least compared to other games ). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the lingering effects of his ear infection and dizziness was affecting him out there. Although it's easy to default to the "JO'B would prefer to play Murphy over a rookie" excuse.....this line of reasoning isn't entirely implausible given many of the timelines that we have been given ( being out for up to another 2 weeks per Mike Wells ) by different sources since Hansbrough has been out with this ear infection.

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 01:12 PM
If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half

like somebody already said before, his minutes are limited to 15min per game I think JOB was using him to play D in the 1st quarter and also to try to get the phoenix suns bigs especially Amare in foul trouble to then bring Roy in the second quarter.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:12 PM
I really wouldn't read too much into this ( at least compared to other games ). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the lingering effects of his ear infection and dizziness was affecting him out there. Although it's easy to default to the "JO'B would prefer to play Murphy over a rookie" excuse.....this line of reasoning isn't entirely implausible given many of the timelines that we have been given ( being out for up to another 2 weeks per Mike Wells ) by different sources since Hansbrough has been out with this ear infection.

In fairness I will say Tyler is a much better defender and gets to the line much more than I thought he would

Now if he would just stop shooting contested 15-20fters and learn a few ball/head fakes it would be gravy :)

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:13 PM
like somebody already said before, his minutes are limited to 15min per game I think JOB was using him to play D in the 1st quarter and also to try to get the phoenix suns bigs especially Amare in foul trouble to then bring Roy in the second quarter.

i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option

odeez
01-14-2010, 01:14 PM
Good post and something to ponder. I personally feel Tyler is a better option for us than Mcbob. In the long and short term, I feel Tyler is a better player than Mcbob. Given his potential and over all play this year. I agree about the lineup, not sure he should be starting, but who knows with JOB.

Tyler is a rookie, and I think with the minutes he has been given this year, and with the late start, he is doing just fine. I personally like his jump shot. I think he needs to just continue to work on his mid-range game and maybe in a few years be able to take some threes, but in the long term. He can't dominate in post like in college, so more jumpers will be required. He certainly can improve in the his moves in the post as well. He has a knack for getting contact and should improve his technique for drawing fouls. And I think he will do all those things in the summer, meaning he will be better next year and beyond, again IMO.

As for his playing time and whether he starts or not, I have know idea what JOB is thinking. But in terms of head to head, Mcbob vs Tyler, I would give the minutes available to Tyler. Sure he makes a ton of mistakes and his shot needs work, but for a rookie he is right on point. He isn't flashy, but strikes me as being more efficient than Mcbob offensively.

Mcbob is fun to watch, he works his tail off when on the floor. But offensively he usually is only good for an dunks and tip-ins. Now I know he has a shot, have seen him hit some now and then, but he doesn't strike me as someone that will be a scorer. Rebounds are his strong point, he crashes the boards well when he plays. He has great athleticism and can get where he wants to. He can be a good defender and can block shots. Overall he provides a ton of energy and is always fun to watch, but often looks lost in our offense, which isn't the greatest system mind you.

So head to head, again I would give Tyler the minutes at the 4 spot. The question I have is will Tyler be our starting 4 in the future next to Roy? That I am not so sure of, I see him being more of a 6th man type. But we will have to wait and see. I would like too see us get a player at the 4 who can be force / All Star, command double teams and complement Roy. Only time will tell whether he Tyler can be that guy. IMO, Mcbob is an energy guy who you play 10-15 mins a night. He gets you boards, block shots, and provide a spark. But can he consistently a force? I am sure with minutes he would improve, but don't see him getting any consistent time under JOB.

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 01:15 PM
i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option

It could be, everybody here knows he loves Murphy and that could be the issue

odeez
01-14-2010, 01:18 PM
The answer to the question of whether Bird is pushing JOB to play Tyler? I don't think so, but I don't have insider info like some of you guys. :happydanc

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:32 PM
It could be, everybody here knows he loves Murphy and that could be the issue

Good point

CableKC
01-14-2010, 01:33 PM
i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option
Of course, we don't really know one way or another....but given that he's coming back earlier then expected from an ear infection that gave him dizziness....it's not unreasonable to expect the Medical Staff would place a limitation of minutes for the aforementioned reason.

I'm guessing our poor performance in the first half may have had something to do with it....but I'd err on the likelihood that he was just a little bit dizzy. Someone in the post-game thread mentioned that he looked lost out there.....again, it's possible that it maybe due to "rust" after being out for so long....but "dizziness" would make far more sense.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:33 PM
The answer to the question of whether Bird is pushing JOB to play Tyler? I don't think so, but I don't have insider info like some of you guys. :happydanc

lol

yeah my babies mama's cousins best friend knows one of the players ex wife sister in law

and they said.....

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 01:34 PM
Of course, we don't really know one way or another....but given that he's coming back earlier then expected from an ear infection that gave him dizziness....it's not unreasonable to expect the Medical Staff would place a limitation of minutes for the aforementioned reason.

I'm guessing our poor performance in the first half may have had something to do with it....but I'd err on the likelihood that he was just a little bit dizzy. Someone in the post-game thread mentioned that he looked lost out there.....again, it's possible that it maybe due to "rust" after being out for so long....but "dizziness" would make far more sense.

I definitley agree with that. I think that is the only reason why he missed so many games, not this dreaded ear infection

Hicks
01-14-2010, 01:56 PM
Duke

I understand that, but what has Tyler done to earn consistent playing time? Is he that much more productive than McBob? I know his starting last night was an aberation, but his consistent playing time is not

Do you think he has earned time?

Don't call me Duke. It sickens me.:eek:

vnzla81
01-14-2010, 02:14 PM
Don't call me Duke. It sickens me.:eek:

I think he is confused between you and Duke D, you guys are using the same avatar;)

gummy
01-14-2010, 02:26 PM
I definitley agree with that. I think that is the only reason why he missed so many games, not this dreaded ear infection

The dizziness is a byproduct of the ear infection. They go together like PB&J, you see. ;)

Naptown_Seth
01-14-2010, 02:31 PM
I think Tyler is your top pick and it makes sense to work with him and see what he can do or how he can develop. For all my criticism, at this point he's getting burn no matter how much fans yap at me during the games. I'm not saying starts and 25 mpg, but I'd carve out 5-10 here and there, maybe 20 on a good matchup for him or when he gets it going. I'd probably even want to check him out for 20mpg for several straight just to see how he reacts.

I HOPE that's not having to come down from Bird, any good coach should think this way IMO.

But....last year Rush and Roy were top picks and both seemed to be in a constant battle to justify the kind of playing time that appears to come easier to Tyler. So in that way I wonder if it's a mandate.

I also wonder if that mandate has come because of last year because it seems like we are seeing tons of things that wouldn't have happened last year, at least this early. TJ planted, Price (2nd rounder) getting PT, Solo getting time, Rush and Roy seeing a lot more commitment (I can see more reason for backing off Rush this year than last, though I'd keep him working myself), a vet like Troy basically sitting down until Roy fouled out.

Maybe last year had Bird frustrated and he got more forceful this year.

Or maybe it's just that JOB is reading things differently now.

Unclebuck
01-14-2010, 02:42 PM
McRoberts is the more polished player compared to Hansbrough at this point.

McRoberts needs to be traded to just about any other team in the league who values basketball IQ, hustle, and hops and has a coach who teaches fundamentals. He is truly wasted here, and it is a shame.

Of all the adjectives I would use to describe Josh, polished would not be one I would ever think of. Perhaps we have different definitions of the word polished. A polished player IMO is a player who has refined his skills, honed his craft. An example is Tim Duncan. I don't see Josh as polished, in fact I think he is the exact opposite of polished.

Hustle he is pretty good at , hops he has hops - I fail to see the Bb IQ though. And from what O'Brien says on his radio show he says his teams probably spend more time in practice on fundamentls than any team in the NBA.

Unclebuck
01-14-2010, 02:46 PM
True, but this is because he plays like a football player on a basketball court.

Buck, Ia am sorry my friend but that is pure spoeculation. What or how could you back that up?


If he has a"skill set" why does he constantly get his shot blocked, and is shooting such a putrid percentage?

I'm not sure what part your comments apply to what.

When I posted that Tyler has a skill set, I was referring to his energy, hustle......My point has long been that being a hustle player is not something every player could do if they only wanted to, but that it is a skill a that very few players have. Tyler has it, Jeff Foster has it ior had it, Dennis Rodman had it. No one else on our roster have it.

I'm not sure what part of my post you are taking about that is pure speculation.

I know there was a thread on the ear infection - real or not notion. But I grew up and still get ear infections from time to time and a couple of them were really bad and dizziness was a factor.

CableKC
01-14-2010, 03:09 PM
I definitley agree with that. I think that is the only reason why he missed so many games, not this dreaded ear infection
To be clear....the dizziness was caused by the ear infection. From what's been discussed here about it....an ear infection can really mess with your balence and sense of direction....hence the overall feeling of dizziness.

Brad8888
01-14-2010, 03:10 PM
Of all the adjectives I would use to describe Josh, polished would not be one I would ever think of. Perhaps we have different definitions of the word polished. A polished player IMO is a player who has refined his skills, honed his craft. An example is Tim Duncan. I don't see Josh as polished, in fact I think he is the exact opposite of polished.

Hustle he is pretty good at , hops he has hops - I fail to see the Bb IQ though. And from what O'Brien says on his radio show he says his teams probably spend more time in practice on fundamentls than any team in the NBA.

Josh doesn't take truly stupid shots just for the sake of getting fouled, for instance. He also doesn't end up out of position defensively very often due to over aggressiveness like Tyler. He also facilitates the flow of the offense by recognizing when other players on the floor around him are in scoring position and regularly finds them with high quality passes. When Tyler receives the ball, he is nearly always going to the rim with it and everyone knows it and his performance suffers more than it will once he understands that from experience at the professional level. Tyler will improve a lot next year, and may yet ths year, but he is nowhere near a level of performance and skills that should place Tyler where he is within the Pacers rotation at this time.

I like Tyler, but until Tyler demonstrates any of these qualities, he has absolutely nothing but scrappy rebounding and getting to the line to justify being on the floor if performance is what dictates playing time.

McRoberts is not a starter, and likely will never be, but at this point Tyler should be third at PF behind McRoberts in my opinion if the only criteria is overall performance and skills and potential for positive impact on the flow of a game. And regardless, it is at the very least ridiculous in a season like this to have McRoberts in street clothes unless there are off the court issues with him that are not being shared with the general public.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Don't call me Duke. It sickens me.:eek:

lol,

yep didnt realize you had the same avatar.

question is though, if I call him Hicks will he be sick as well :)

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm not sure what part your comments apply to what.

When I posted that Tyler has a skill set, I was referring to his energy, hustle......My point has long been that being a hustle player is not something every player could do if they only wanted to, but that it is a skill a that very few players have. Tyler has it, Jeff Foster has it ior had it, Dennis Rodman had it. No one else on our roster have it.

I'm not sure what part of my post you are taking about that is pure speculation.

I know there was a thread on the ear infection - real or not notion. But I grew up and still get ear infections from time to time and a couple of them were really bad and dizziness was a factor.


I messed up the placing of my quotes. What I meant about speculation was your comment about Tyler having the superior skill set, which I think he has yet to display, if he tuly has it.

The whole point of the post was not supposed to be a compairison of Tyler vs Mc Bob, but moreso what has Tyler done to justify his playing time over Mc Bob, or Solo for that matter

make sense?

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 03:16 PM
To be clear....the dizziness was caused by the ear infection. From what's been discussed here about it....an ear infection can really mess with your balence and sense of direction....hence the overall feeling of dizziness.

Right and I agree, meaning that if it was a minor ear infection it would not effect him as much, so based on his complaints of dizzyness it was pretty severe

CableKC
01-14-2010, 03:19 PM
I think Tyler is your top pick and it makes sense to work with him and see what he can do or how he can develop. For all my criticism, at this point he's getting burn no matter how much fans yap at me during the games. I'm not saying starts and 25 mpg, but I'd carve out 5-10 here and there, maybe 20 on a good matchup for him or when he gets it going. I'd probably even want to check him out for 20mpg for several straight just to see how he reacts.

I HOPE that's not having to come down from Bird, any good coach should think this way IMO.

But....last year Rush and Roy were top picks and both seemed to be in a constant battle to justify the kind of playing time that appears to come easier to Tyler. So in that way I wonder if it's a mandate.

I also wonder if that mandate has come because of last year because it seems like we are seeing tons of things that wouldn't have happened last year, at least this early. TJ planted, Price (2nd rounder) getting PT, Solo getting time, Rush and Roy seeing a lot more commitment (I can see more reason for backing off Rush this year than last, though I'd keep him working myself), a vet like Troy basically sitting down until Roy fouled out.

Maybe last year had Bird frustrated and he got more forceful this year.

Or maybe it's just that JOB is reading things differently now.
My guess is that JO'B was forced to play him at first....saw that he was a better scorer then Foster, McRoberts, Solo is and was a hustle/energy player to boot that could contribute in some fashion on both ends of the floor. This goes back to my theory that JO'B will mostly value Offense over Defense ( with Foster being the exception ). As you point out....defensively...it makes sense to give Players like McRoberts some time on the floor cuz of his atheleticsm, hops, energy and defense...so why is a player like Hansbrough ahead of McRoberts in the rotation when we were all led to believe that Defense is a priority? Cuz IMHO...Hansbrough offers a little of what McRoberts brings to the floor ( energy and offensive rebounding ) while being a better scorer. I'm not saying that it's right....I'm just suggesting that I can totally see JO'B thinking like this. Couple this line of reasoning with our likely guess that the FO is pushing him to play him.....it just makes it that much easier for JO'B to play Hansbrough over McRoberts and/or Solo.

Unfortunately, WHEN :pray: Foster returns from injury....I'd guess that Hansbrough will be fighting with Granger ( at the backup PF spot ) for a minimal # of minutes behind Hibbert, Murphy and Foster in the PF/C rotation....with McRoberts and Solo in their suits.

Unclebuck
01-14-2010, 03:29 PM
I messed up the placing of my quotes. What I meant about speculation was your comment about Tyler having the superior skill set, which I think he has yet to display, if he tuly has it.

The whole point of the post was not supposed to be a compairison of Tyler vs Mc Bob, but moreso what has Tyler done to justify his playing time over Mc Bob, or Solo for that matter

make sense?

Makes sense, but you are suggesting that Josh should get minutes instead of Tyler (at least to some degree) so I think it is fair to compare those two players and the impact they have on winning.

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 04:07 PM
Makes sense, but you are suggesting that Josh should get minutes instead of Tyler (at least to some degree) so I think it is fair to compare those two players and the impact they have on winning.

Not necesarly,

I guess it just comes down to I cant figure any rational reasoning in Obie playing time patterns

I think Tyler will prove to be the better player than McBob, but he has yet to do so, has been injured, missed all of training camp and yet what he was so impressive in practice that he earned the time

Its just that Obie makes no sense and contridicts himself constantly. He will talk about one player comming off an injury and how they need to "play their way back into rotation" then he will play Tyler right off of injury

I hope that makes some sense :)

judicata
01-14-2010, 04:43 PM
Tyler scored more points in his first NBA game than Josh has since College. Tyler has scored more in a game in the NBA than Josh has since high school.

How is this hard?

90'sNBARocked
01-14-2010, 05:13 PM
Tyler scored more points in his first NBA game than Josh has since College. Tyler has scored more in a game in the NBA than Josh has since high school.

How is this hard?

Its hard becasue everything you speak of is PAST TENSE

He starts with a clean slate in the NBA , and in the NBA , so far, he has not done enough in my opinion to deserve the amount of minutes he has been given

so back to the original point, I think Bird is pushing Obie to play him, and I dont agree with that nor think its good for the overall team chemistry

just my opinion though and I respect yours as well

Hicks
01-14-2010, 05:23 PM
lol,

yep didnt realize you had the same avatar.

question is though, if I call him Hicks will he be sick as well :)

The difference is I can change his username to Princess if he says anything of the sort. :devil:

duke dynamite
01-14-2010, 05:29 PM
Don't call me Duke. It sickens me.:eek:


The difference is I can change his username to Princess if he says anything of the sort. :devil:
Umm, thanks? Wow. That stung a little.

EDIT: Don't call me Hicks, either. I don't need a bigger ego.

judicata
01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
It is not just past tense (as in past leagues). It is also present tense. Tyler has doubled up Josh's best game in points. In every league, including this one, Tyler has done more. Without training camp, and with two minor injuries.

Josh has potential. The Pacers should play him. The same goes for Tyler. You can argue that Tyler's fg% makes it a good argument about which is better or more deserving. But you cannot say you have no idea why Tyler gets minutes so it must be divine intervention.

He is averaging 18 minutes a game. Most rookie watch lists have him in the top 15 for rookies. That is about where he ranks in minutes played too, and he plays on a terrible team that doesn't have loads of guys rightfully eating up minutes ahead of him.

BlueNGold
01-14-2010, 07:57 PM
This Tyler/McBob comparision will work itself out. I'd force feed Tyler minutes until his shot starts dropping. Once it does that, he will be a much more effective player. But if it doesn't happen, he will bomb. Give it a year or two.

BTW, it's not like the Pacers see the next Karl Malone in Tyler. It's that they probably think he could be Jeff Foster plus a healthy dose of offense. Not a bad thing for the franchise.

Edit: ...lol...I love the patience on this board for the rookie. I remember vividly trying to convince untold numbers of posters here that Granger would be a great offensive player. Only time convinced a number of people. Now there are "experts" pointing to D. Blair and rip on Tyler for not tearing it up out the gate. It's a long season and long career...for some. I seriously doubt D. Blair lasts 5 years in the NBA with those knees.

tadscout
01-14-2010, 08:07 PM
If anything, if more playtime for Mcbob is what you want, I'd be looking towards taking it away from Solo, till he can hold his position better and not get thrown 4-8 ft anytime contact is made with him (or simply put he needs to be put on the strength and conditioning program that McBob was put on this summer...).

AlexAustin
01-14-2010, 08:44 PM
I think people are making too much out of Tyler starting last night. I feel JOB wanted to save Hibbert from early foul trouble, Big Roy is tied for 6th in fouls per game in his limited minutes and the Suns run and when Roy gets tired he picks up lazy fouls.

Roy still fouled out despite coming in vs the 2nd unit and being more rested, what happens in that game if he's in early foul trouble and Hansbrough uses up his limited minuets?

90'sNBARocked
01-15-2010, 02:02 PM
This Tyler/McBob comparision will work itself out. I'd force feed Tyler minutes until his shot starts dropping. Once it does that, he will be a much more effective player. But if it doesn't happen, he will bomb. Give it a year or two.

BTW, it's not like the Pacers see the next Karl Malone in Tyler. It's that they probably think he could be Jeff Foster plus a healthy dose of offense. Not a bad thing for the franchise.

Edit: ...lol...I love the patience on this board for the rookie. I remember vividly trying to convince untold numbers of posters here that Granger would be a great offensive player. Only time convinced a number of people. Now there are "experts" pointing to D. Blair and rip on Tyler for not tearing it up out the gate. It's a long season and long career...for some. I seriously doubt D. Blair lasts 5 years in the NBA with those knees.

You make some very valid points about patience

I think, unfortunatley, that this post kind of turned another direction. It was not meant to be a compairison between the skill sets of Tyler vs McBob, but moreso what has Obie saw in Tyler to think he deserves consistent playing time over players like McBob, Solo, etc.

Personally I dont thin he has done enough , so far in his career, to justify him receiving the minutes he gets over others

so I think there is at least a slight nudge form Bird to make sure Obie gets Tylers decent minutes

Just my opinion, pure speculation but I believe it to be true